Fellow zookeepers, I'm seriously considering my Big Zoo list for the next FNM.
Amongst my other, also very competitive decks, this is the deck i enjoy playing the most. Due to it's nature, it's very well positioned against Jund and other 1for1 non-exile-removal heavy decks, of which i'm certain i will encounter a few in an otherwise unknown meta.
I'd like to hear what you think of the (sideboard) choices and if you see any obvious flaws.
I'm still in doubt wheter the 3rd Path to Exile is preferable over a copy of Lightning Helix for H1 and other recursive threats.
I also might sacrifice one sideboard slot to take an extra Ghost Quarter or similar effect in case Tron or something ramp-y pops up.
Scapeshift and Tron pull you different directions currently but Molten Rain is a pretty expensive and inefficient way to impact their mana development. Personally, I'd look elsewhere.
Went 4-1-0 tonight for some practice games with the aforementioned list. Tried Damping Spheres instead of Molten Rains and Ghost Quarter instead of Blood Moon. Though i've never had to side them in.
Amongst the wins where: Bant Eldrazi (didn't know after game one since he drew very bad so i didn't board in spheres), Boros Prison, UB-Mill, and Jund. I drew against Death&Taxes/MonoW Legends due to time. Won Game one though.
Deck felt pretty good and have been able to either out-aggro of out-grind my opponent. BBE into Rallier into goyf/voice/anything really, is still pretty sick and happens more often than you might think as long as you stay prepared for it. Always keep a fetch/seal/other sac outlet up to respond on the trigger and you're good to go. 1vs1 decks just can't keep up.
Honarable mention, Fiery Justice was a blowout against the D&T player.
Love seeing everyone's success! I got another 3-1 finish at FNM with Queller Zoo. Damping Sphere was busted against Tron and Queller on their Walking Ballista! I was able to Queller multiple x spells at FNM and it felt great, and it won me another burn matchup that night too. The only loss was to grixis control which is normally a cake walk. The two games I lost involved mulling to five with my only land sacred foundry for 3 turns (couldn't cast anything) and then him having double anger of the gods when I did start casting things, and the second loss that match was to drawing 4 non-land cards the entire game. gg it happens sometimes.
Deck is primed to beat up on the fair decks right now, which is why naya midrange will always be a good tier 1.5-2 deck in the format. Fast, efficient creatures that put pressure on an opponent + best sideboard colors in modern = tier 1.5-2 consistently.
Deck is primed to beat up on the fair decks right now, which is why naya midrange will always be a good tier 1.5-2 deck in the format. Fast, efficient creatures that put pressure on an opponent + best sideboard colors in modern = tier 1.5-2 consistently.
Yes. With an asterix -- as usual.
It also has to do with how people are building their midrange decks -- dropping Terminates and Abrupt Decays for Fatal Push and Lightning Bolt. With our bevy of powerful 3 drops, those are unreasonable propositions. Jund, as Lantern has said before, typically has a good MU against Zoo. However, given the Humans menace, they have to build in such a way that they are not well suited to handle Zoo right now.
This deck also wrecks Mardu Pyromancer with how they currently build it. Wrecks it. Mardu, built to prey upon humans, gets the actual shaft everytime I sit down. This makes Zoo a great meta reactionary aggressive midrange deck -- typically where we want to be and where big zoo has been successful in the past.
Jeskai, while previously a great MU, is now just fine. Teferi did a lot for them -- a weak draw from us and they can close the door quickly. I think we just have to ensure that our 1-2 SB slots devoted to midrange/control actually appropriately answers Jeskai -- otherwise we're dumping 4 mana into something that isn't relevant.
I'd also note that, in small rooms, people are often hesitant to play all-in strategies week-in and week-out. I've played against largely tier 2 decks for the past couple tournaments. Our sample size is also <500 games. I think Big Zoo is in a good spot right now but I think we should temper our big room expectations. We're winning games where both players expect the game to last at least 4 turns.
What do you mean by big an small room expectations and all-in strategies?
Small tournaments vs large tournaments. Small tournaments are easier to spike and win since there's maybe 7 different decks and they may not be prepared for you, whereas larger tournaments open you up to more pairings that might just be terrible matchups for you.
People in small rooms have hesitations playing all-in strategies because the matchup becomes known in the room, people start packing the correct SB cards, and you end up having a much worse GW% than if you were playing an all-in strategy in a big room.
So if i interpret this correctly, in small scale tournaments chances of winning with fringe strategies or brews are more likely rather than when playing top tier decks?
Please correct me if i'm wrong with this assumption of "all-in strategies"
So if i interpret this correctly, in small scale tournaments chances of winning with fringe strategies or brews are more likely rather than when playing top tier decks?
Please correct me if i'm wrong with this assumption of "all-in strategies"
An "all-in" strategy is like Grishoalbrand or Bridge from Below/Hollow One/Vengevine. These are decks that are very explosive and can be hard to beat if you don't have the appropriate SB cards. However, if you're attending a small local like FNM or a Thursday win-a-box regularly, you'll have difficulty bringing Grishoalbrand every time since more and more people will start packing the appropriate SB answers -- operating under the assumption that you will show up.
Played this list the last few modern nights at my LGS. I have had great success going 4-0 and 3-1. The deck seems really smooth, but I have a few questions about boarding when facing particular cards. I played against Skred and Pyro Prison and I was really debating taking out my knights because I had seen both Blood Moon and Relic of Progenitus. But knight is so core to the plan of the deck that I was really having second thoughts. Are these matchups that we have to give up basically? I brought in as much artifact hate as I could against prison and got there on them stumbling with mana issues, but against skred they just played stormbreath dragon and beat me down while I struggled to recover from an anger of the gods, sitting there with a path and abrade in hand felt pretty bad.
Right now I have courser in the deck to synergize with Domri and bloodbraid and to add an extra type for my goyfs. This slot I have really gone back and forth with between Tireless Tracker, Loxodon Smiter as well. I see basically no one else play this card in the slot and I am wondering why not? I know that it is not an aggressive creature, but I have found I love the card because it is bolt proof when it comes down, and that it gets me to my creatures and adds extra lands to pump my knights. Am I taking crazy pills here or is the card actually good in this deck?
Courser is a good card, sifts through your deck faster and helps hit your land drops. I also like playing courser in other decks but it’s definitely not an aggressive card. It should be backed by aggressive cards to take advantage of the filtering. I play courser in a lot of other decks, my favorite is a BUG midrange list.
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CURRENTLY PLAYING Legacy: BWG Junk Modern: BGR Jund BUG BUG URW American Control BWG Junk BWR Dega midrange GWR Naya Zoo EDH: BWG Teneb, the Harvester Pauper EDH: WG Sigil Captain Standard:
Well I used to play standard...
Hey guys! Sorry haven't posted this week, been a bit hectic with some work. Anyways here's the Queller Zoo list I've been playing this week to a 6-1 record. The only loss was to Affinity because of drawing forest/sacred foundry while having a bunch of lightning helix in hand and no creatures. That was an awkward game lol.
Spell Queller has been great in some matchups, single handedly beating two burn players. Also moving the dromoka's to the main has been great. I've only hit BBE into Queller twice, but never felt like it sucked as much as it sounds like it would.
I haven’t posted or read mtgsalvation in quite a long time and decided to get back into it.
@zulander
I’ve played numerous zoo lists from Naya company, to Eldritch Evolution/wilt leaf liege, to bushwacker and I feel like I settled on a list similar to yours. I got the idea from a video Gabriel Nassif played with, what he called “Bant Pile” pretty much zoo with spell queller, 4 drop elspeth, and a singleton bant charm.
I like the aggro/zoo aspect of it backed by quellers but I added a little more blue with counters and Nissa.
I don’t own any horizon canopy otherwise it would be included. I like having counters along with quellers cuz it allows me to play a small control role, and a counter here and there go a long way to protecting my guys or preventing the road block creature so I can close out the game faster.
Nissa steward of elements does a lot of work in this deck. She smooths our draws, lets me ramp or catch up on lands by playing 2 a turn, or cheats into play a creature. If you splash blue then definitely give her a try. Also if the game goes long she can swing for 10 in the air, either by plusing a bunch of times, or just cast her for 8, usually for the win...
One main issue is sequencing and fetching the right lands to cast all my spells, but once you get a few games in it’s not too difficult.
CURRENTLY PLAYING Legacy: BWG Junk Modern: BGR Jund BUG BUG URW American Control BWG Junk BWR Dega midrange GWR Naya Zoo EDH: BWG Teneb, the Harvester Pauper EDH: WG Sigil Captain Standard:
Well I used to play standard...
In what matchups and situations are the Dromokas Command good?
I see a lot of you guys are playing it both mainboard and sideboard.
I know the utility spreads across a lot of different situations, but was wondering what matchups in the meta you feel it shines against?
Thanks in advance.
It's very good against any deck playing Lightning Bolt. It's also good in green mirrors. It shines where stats matter. Sometimes you snag something stupid like a Spreading Seas or a Search for Azcanta but usually that mode just hits a Rancor and you're sad.
Out of the new core set Alpine Moon has me pretty excited. It seems like a nice sideboard option for us but I have some concerns about it and was wondering what other people thought.
Pro: One mana solution to scapeshift, tron and any other pesky man lands That doesn't hurt our lands.
Con: it slows down tron, doesn't stop it.
I think this card is more meant for the smaller aggro based zoo not the more midrange zoo deck. The one mana helps with the surge cost of Reckless bushwhacker. The card for big zoo as I said above just slows down Tron and actually gives Tron an out to cast their Natures Claims to stop the hate. Am I missing a step of logic with this argument?
So i did play the deck with some very minor changes for the fun of it, on what would become my worst FNM to date with a record of 0-1-0. Losses against Abzan (0-2 notably both games on the play), Jeskai Control (1-2 on the play flooded both games 2 and 3), UR control (1-2 on the draw, got colorscrewed game 3) and a draw versus Bogles (1-1 Worship vs Coronet situation).
I won't go into detail on the games but i don't recall any obvious mistakes apart from some hands i probably should have mulliganned. The deck just didn't really perform the way i experienced it before. With mana issues i've never had before in such a fetch heavy build.
Luckilly i had a lot of fun during games and with my opponents, which to me, FNM is about
Out of the new core set Alpine Moon has me pretty excited. It seems like a nice sideboard option for us but I have some concerns about it and was wondering what other people thought.
Pro: One mana solution to scapeshift, tron and any other pesky man lands That doesn't hurt our lands.
Con: it slows down tron, doesn't stop it.
I think this card is more meant for the smaller aggro based zoo not the more midrange zoo deck. The one mana helps with the surge cost of Reckless bushwhacker. The card for big zoo as I said above just slows down Tron and actually gives Tron an out to cast their Natures Claims to stop the hate. Am I missing a step of logic with this argument?
Alpine Moon/Damping Sphere/Blood Moon, all of these help the dreaded Tron Matchup. Which one to pick is totally up to how you decide to tackle the Titanshift and storm matchup. I personally see no reason to ever go back to blood moon in our deck because I don't feel the need to board in a bad topdeck to get free wins against random decks, so that leaves Alpine Moon and Damping Shpere for me. I personally see a lot more storm than I do titanshift so I play Sphere, and because it also hits other random combo decks like KCI. Now, if infect continues to see a rise then it may be correct to also play alpine moon to shut off inkmoth nexus, but for now I've settled on punting the titanshift matchup and only really having a fast clock + dromoka's command + random Gaddock Teeg interaction against the deck.
Amongst my other, also very competitive decks, this is the deck i enjoy playing the most. Due to it's nature, it's very well positioned against Jund and other 1for1 non-exile-removal heavy decks, of which i'm certain i will encounter a few in an otherwise unknown meta.
I'd like to hear what you think of the (sideboard) choices and if you see any obvious flaws.
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Arid Mesa
2 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Treetop Village
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Voice of Resurgence
1 Qasali Pridemage
4 Renegade Rallier
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Bloodbraid Elf
Spells (12)
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Seal of Fire
3 Lightning Helix
2 Path to Exile
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Stony Silence
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Selfless Spirit
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Molten Rain
1 Blood Moon
1 Fiery Justice
I'm still in doubt wheter the 3rd Path to Exile is preferable over a copy of Lightning Helix for H1 and other recursive threats.
I also might sacrifice one sideboard slot to take an extra Ghost Quarter or similar effect in case Tron or something ramp-y pops up.
What do you think.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
I played with Molten Rain prior to the PW redirect "fix" and it was not great. It's worse now (can't redirect to Lilly). I like cards like Damping Sphere, Blood Moon, Tectonic Edge...
Scapeshift and Tron pull you different directions currently but Molten Rain is a pretty expensive and inefficient way to impact their mana development. Personally, I'd look elsewhere.
Amongst the wins where: Bant Eldrazi (didn't know after game one since he drew very bad so i didn't board in spheres), Boros Prison, UB-Mill, and Jund. I drew against Death&Taxes/MonoW Legends due to time. Won Game one though.
Deck felt pretty good and have been able to either out-aggro of out-grind my opponent. BBE into Rallier into goyf/voice/anything really, is still pretty sick and happens more often than you might think as long as you stay prepared for it. Always keep a fetch/seal/other sac outlet up to respond on the trigger and you're good to go. 1vs1 decks just can't keep up.
Honarable mention, Fiery Justice was a blowout against the D&T player.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
Deck is primed to beat up on the fair decks right now, which is why naya midrange will always be a good tier 1.5-2 deck in the format. Fast, efficient creatures that put pressure on an opponent + best sideboard colors in modern = tier 1.5-2 consistently.
Need a collection tracker? Use EchoMTG here: https://www.echomtg.com/r/7bb6961d/
Join the Zoo Discord: https://discord.gg/Yu6eTSTrzA
Yes. With an asterix -- as usual.
It also has to do with how people are building their midrange decks -- dropping Terminates and Abrupt Decays for Fatal Push and Lightning Bolt. With our bevy of powerful 3 drops, those are unreasonable propositions. Jund, as Lantern has said before, typically has a good MU against Zoo. However, given the Humans menace, they have to build in such a way that they are not well suited to handle Zoo right now.
This deck also wrecks Mardu Pyromancer with how they currently build it. Wrecks it. Mardu, built to prey upon humans, gets the actual shaft everytime I sit down. This makes Zoo a great meta reactionary aggressive midrange deck -- typically where we want to be and where big zoo has been successful in the past.
Jeskai, while previously a great MU, is now just fine. Teferi did a lot for them -- a weak draw from us and they can close the door quickly. I think we just have to ensure that our 1-2 SB slots devoted to midrange/control actually appropriately answers Jeskai -- otherwise we're dumping 4 mana into something that isn't relevant.
I'd also note that, in small rooms, people are often hesitant to play all-in strategies week-in and week-out. I've played against largely tier 2 decks for the past couple tournaments. Our sample size is also <500 games. I think Big Zoo is in a good spot right now but I think we should temper our big room expectations. We're winning games where both players expect the game to last at least 4 turns.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
Small tournaments vs large tournaments. Small tournaments are easier to spike and win since there's maybe 7 different decks and they may not be prepared for you, whereas larger tournaments open you up to more pairings that might just be terrible matchups for you.
Need a collection tracker? Use EchoMTG here: https://www.echomtg.com/r/7bb6961d/
Join the Zoo Discord: https://discord.gg/Yu6eTSTrzA
Please correct me if i'm wrong with this assumption of "all-in strategies"
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
An "all-in" strategy is like Grishoalbrand or Bridge from Below/Hollow One/Vengevine. These are decks that are very explosive and can be hard to beat if you don't have the appropriate SB cards. However, if you're attending a small local like FNM or a Thursday win-a-box regularly, you'll have difficulty bringing Grishoalbrand every time since more and more people will start packing the appropriate SB answers -- operating under the assumption that you will show up.
2 Arid Mesa
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Forest
1 Plains
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
1 Treetop Village
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Wild Nacatl
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Voice of Resurgence
2 Courser of Kruphix
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Bloodbraid Elf
Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Path to Exile
1 Dromoka's Command
2 Lightning Helix
1 Domri Rade
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Abrade
1 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Dromoka's Command
1 Fiery Justice
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Damping Sphere
1 Settle the Wreckage
1 Stony Silence
1 Fracturing Gust
Played this list the last few modern nights at my LGS. I have had great success going 4-0 and 3-1. The deck seems really smooth, but I have a few questions about boarding when facing particular cards. I played against Skred and Pyro Prison and I was really debating taking out my knights because I had seen both Blood Moon and Relic of Progenitus. But knight is so core to the plan of the deck that I was really having second thoughts. Are these matchups that we have to give up basically? I brought in as much artifact hate as I could against prison and got there on them stumbling with mana issues, but against skred they just played stormbreath dragon and beat me down while I struggled to recover from an anger of the gods, sitting there with a path and abrade in hand felt pretty bad.
Right now I have courser in the deck to synergize with Domri and bloodbraid and to add an extra type for my goyfs. This slot I have really gone back and forth with between Tireless Tracker, Loxodon Smiter as well. I see basically no one else play this card in the slot and I am wondering why not? I know that it is not an aggressive creature, but I have found I love the card because it is bolt proof when it comes down, and that it gets me to my creatures and adds extra lands to pump my knights. Am I taking crazy pills here or is the card actually good in this deck?
CURRENTLY PLAYING
Legacy:
BWG Junk
Modern:
BGR Jund
BUG BUG
URW American Control
BWG Junk
BWR Dega midrange
GWR Naya Zoo
EDH:
BWG Teneb, the Harvester
Pauper EDH:
WG Sigil Captain
Standard:
Well I used to play standard...
El_snoope's haves and wants list
I haven’t posted or read mtgsalvation in quite a long time and decided to get back into it.
@zulander
I’ve played numerous zoo lists from Naya company, to Eldritch Evolution/wilt leaf liege, to bushwacker and I feel like I settled on a list similar to yours. I got the idea from a video Gabriel Nassif played with, what he called “Bant Pile” pretty much zoo with spell queller, 4 drop elspeth, and a singleton bant charm.
I like the aggro/zoo aspect of it backed by quellers but I added a little more blue with counters and Nissa.
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Spell Queller
Spells:14
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
3 Mana Leak
2 Nissa, Steward of Elements
1 Unified Will
1 Breeding Pool
2 Forest
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Kessig Wolf Run
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
I don’t own any horizon canopy otherwise it would be included. I like having counters along with quellers cuz it allows me to play a small control role, and a counter here and there go a long way to protecting my guys or preventing the road block creature so I can close out the game faster.
Nissa steward of elements does a lot of work in this deck. She smooths our draws, lets me ramp or catch up on lands by playing 2 a turn, or cheats into play a creature. If you splash blue then definitely give her a try. Also if the game goes long she can swing for 10 in the air, either by plusing a bunch of times, or just cast her for 8, usually for the win...
One main issue is sequencing and fetching the right lands to cast all my spells, but once you get a few games in it’s not too difficult.
CURRENTLY PLAYING
Legacy:
BWG Junk
Modern:
BGR Jund
BUG BUG
URW American Control
BWG Junk
BWR Dega midrange
GWR Naya Zoo
EDH:
BWG Teneb, the Harvester
Pauper EDH:
WG Sigil Captain
Standard:
Well I used to play standard...
El_snoope's haves and wants list
It's very good against any deck playing Lightning Bolt. It's also good in green mirrors. It shines where stats matter. Sometimes you snag something stupid like a Spreading Seas or a Search for Azcanta but usually that mode just hits a Rancor and you're sad.
Pro: One mana solution to scapeshift, tron and any other pesky man lands That doesn't hurt our lands.
Con: it slows down tron, doesn't stop it.
I think this card is more meant for the smaller aggro based zoo not the more midrange zoo deck. The one mana helps with the surge cost of Reckless bushwhacker. The card for big zoo as I said above just slows down Tron and actually gives Tron an out to cast their Natures Claims to stop the hate. Am I missing a step of logic with this argument?
So i did play the deck with some very minor changes for the fun of it, on what would become my worst FNM to date with a record of 0-1-0. Losses against Abzan (0-2 notably both games on the play), Jeskai Control (1-2 on the play flooded both games 2 and 3), UR control (1-2 on the draw, got colorscrewed game 3) and a draw versus Bogles (1-1 Worship vs Coronet situation).
I won't go into detail on the games but i don't recall any obvious mistakes apart from some hands i probably should have mulliganned. The deck just didn't really perform the way i experienced it before. With mana issues i've never had before in such a fetch heavy build.
Luckilly i had a lot of fun during games and with my opponents, which to me, FNM is about
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
Alpine Moon/Damping Sphere/Blood Moon, all of these help the dreaded Tron Matchup. Which one to pick is totally up to how you decide to tackle the Titanshift and storm matchup. I personally see no reason to ever go back to blood moon in our deck because I don't feel the need to board in a bad topdeck to get free wins against random decks, so that leaves Alpine Moon and Damping Shpere for me. I personally see a lot more storm than I do titanshift so I play Sphere, and because it also hits other random combo decks like KCI. Now, if infect continues to see a rise then it may be correct to also play alpine moon to shut off inkmoth nexus, but for now I've settled on punting the titanshift matchup and only really having a fast clock + dromoka's command + random Gaddock Teeg interaction against the deck.
Need a collection tracker? Use EchoMTG here: https://www.echomtg.com/r/7bb6961d/
Join the Zoo Discord: https://discord.gg/Yu6eTSTrzA
Haha yeah decks like this pop up all the time, it's tough mana wise but it can just be busted if your draw steps line up well.
Need a collection tracker? Use EchoMTG here: https://www.echomtg.com/r/7bb6961d/
Join the Zoo Discord: https://discord.gg/Yu6eTSTrzA
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
Kibler played a Pillar list on SCG like, 4 years ago.
This idea has been around for a while -- it's just one that tends to not get a ton of steam due to it's weaknesses.