Natural State is actually very good. I would definitely advocate for it if you need a fifth Nature's Claim for a particularly Affinity-infested meta.
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Can someone explain me why everybody is cutting down on Groundswells? Cant we control Landfall with the fetches or whats the thing I am missing?
I have always been a fan of 4 x Groundswell, but the numbers seem to vary from list to list. Perhaps if we really want to win quickly against the Eldrazi decks, the plan should be something like 4 x Mutagenic Growth, 4 x Groundswell, 4 x Might of Old Krosa and 2 x Become Immense.
Might lacks the tiny bit of added defensive utility in that you can fetch on an opponent's turn to Groundswell out of a bolt. This utility is in exchange for the fact that Might will always be +4/+4 when you swing, barring any sort of operator error, where you may not have the Landfall trigger to activate Groundswell.
I thought that Groundswell would be marginally better, but (anecdotally speaking) there have been more times in the last few months where I was 2 poison short of winning because I didn't have the land than times where I saved a creature from bolt with a Groundswell.
I don't think it's as relevant in a Chalice meta since they're both 1 CMC.
I think Infect might be one of the few decks that's actually favored against the Eldrazi, which is good. Some thoughts:
- Wild Defiance becomes a main deck card, I think. The Eldrazi decks are going to be using Gut Shot and Warping Wail as their removal, and WD blanks those cards. Also, it lets us win through a Chalice of the Void by turning our dead 1 cmc pump spells into Giant Growths. It's also a good way of winning through a Spellskite.
- Nature's Claim is pretty bad now that Chalice on 1 is something we will need a naturalize effect for. I'm going to replace Claims with more of Viridian Corruptor and Seal of Primordium.
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Current Modern decks BGW Junk / URB Grixis Shadow / RGB Lantern Control / WUBCBant Eldrazi
Current Legacy decks BUG Shardless BUG / UWR Predict Miracles / RUG Canadian Thresh / WRBG 4c Loam UB Reanimator
Can someone explain me why everybody is cutting down on Groundswells? Cant we control Landfall with the fetches or whats the thing I am missing?
Might is an extra bit of pump for me to draw, i really don't much care for it tho, so i run 4 groundswell / 2 might of old krosa in my list. There is no surprise value in might, no ability to control a win, or win an otherwise unwinnable combat.
BUG is a trap, don't fall into it.
I think the real take away from the pt is that BG is better positioned to fight the eldrazi menace than UG. All the changes i see talked about here just seem bad.
The ship is sinking on UG. Meanwhile the BG boat is still nicely afloat.
How exactly is BG better right now? BG is good in a field with lots of interactive decks and Lightning Bolts. Not a field full of Eldrazi that couldn't care less about Phyrexian Crusader's protection. Blighted Agent is definitely where we want to be right now IMO.
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Current Modern decks BGW Junk / URB Grixis Shadow / RGB Lantern Control / WUBCBant Eldrazi
Current Legacy decks BUG Shardless BUG / UWR Predict Miracles / RUG Canadian Thresh / WRBG 4c Loam UB Reanimator
Because abrupt decay does work. Dismember does work. Crusader still doesn't suck despite being slightly weaker, but gut shot is a thing now apparently, so good luck with that. But it's not about crusader vs eldrazi, but it lines up better than gelf or b. agent. it's about sideboarding, and UG can't run anything good that's relevant besides what its always run.
So across the 75:
-No abrupt decay
-No dismember
-no darkblast
-no thoughtseize
Just for starters.
The list for good black vs eldrazi is longer than anything blue or green can supply. I mean, Seal of primordium? I just can't get behind suggestions like this.
Because abrupt decay does work. Dismember does work. Crusader still doesn't suck despite being slightly weaker, but gut shot is a thing now apparently, so good luck with that. But it's not about crusader vs eldrazi, but it lines up better than gelf or b. agent. it's about sideboarding, and UG can't run anything good that's relevant besides what its always run.
So across the 75:
-No abrupt decay
-No dismember
-no darkblast
-no thoughtseize
Just for starters.
The list for good black vs eldrazi is longer than anything blue or green can supply. I mean, Seal of primordium? I just can't get behind suggestions like this.
UG doesn't interact with Eldrazi much on purpose, just kill them. The Bg build is more tempo based and needs to clear the way of blockers and remove problematic cards. UG however, just doesn't care. Swing with unblockable and get in as much poison as fast as you can. Main deck Viridian Corrupter deals with problematic cards like Chalice of the Void and Spellskite. Dismember is still a popular card in the UG build, despite the lack of black mana. But mostly the UG build just wants to race and in the face of an opposing Chalice can still grind out counters with Exalted triggers from Noble Hierarch or Buffs from Wild Defiance.
As a +2 in the SB, in a UG list, thinking about Chalice of the Void, which would you all recommend over Nature's Claim OR in addition to Nature's Claim:
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
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As a +2 in the SB, in a UG list, thinking about Chalice of the Void, which would you all recommend over Nature's Claim OR in addition to Nature's Claim:
I would think that if you are going to play a 2 mana answer to Chalice of the Void you would want it to be an instant so I don't really like Seal of Primordium. I am also thinking that Blood Moon is more popular than ever so enchantment removal is important too. I mention the enchantment removal if you are planning to replace some Nature's Claims. If they are in addition to claim then it seems less important.
I still think Viridian Corrupter and Wild Defiance are the main answers to a Chalice on 1, but there does seem to be some merit to a 2 mana answer also.
Casting an instant at the end of their turn, then untapping and swinging for the win, seems better. With Seal they know the Chalice is about to get zapped, which might change what they do in their turn. If you are going to run a 2 mana answer, an instant just seems better for that kind of situation. If you can do it all in the same turn then it doesn't matter.
As a +2 in the SB, in a UG list, thinking about Chalice of the Void, which would you all recommend over Nature's Claim OR in addition to Nature's Claim:
I would think that if you are going to play a 2 mana answer to Chalice of the Void you would want it to be an instant so I don't really like Seal of Primordium. I am also thinking that Blood Moon is more popular than ever so enchantment removal is important too. I mention the enchantment removal if you are planning to replace some Nature's Claims. If they are in addition to claim then it seems less important.
I still think Viridian Corrupter and Wild Defiance are the main answers to a Chalice on 1, but there does seem to be some merit to a 2 mana answer also.
Thanks for the response. As it sits in my SB, I am thinking of a +2 in addition to Nature's Claim. Unravel the Aether looks interesting since it also deals with Wurmcoil. I'm still tempted to add in Tel-Jilad Justice in addition to Nature's Claim for that Scry2 ability. Playing TJJ at EoT and scrying 2 to hopefully find the right pump spell or weed out an unneeded land for a chance at pump feels VERY tempting. May have to play test it. Thanks for the tips.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I am having a very close look at Tel-Jilad Justice too, in addition to Nature's Claim. Basically I am thinking about running 2 Viridian Corrupters main, and siding how ever many Tel-Jilad Justice I can fit in. As you say the scry seems great at the end of their turn before you go for it. It might also help dig out a Blighted Agent when you need it too.
I actually really like that idea, especially with affinity gaining as much popularity as it has -1 Nature's Claim -1 Geist of Saint Traft +2 Hurkyl's Recall is what I'll be testing in my sideboard.
Because abrupt decay does work. Dismember does work. Crusader still doesn't suck despite being slightly weaker, but gut shot is a thing now apparently, so good luck with that. But it's not about crusader vs eldrazi, but it lines up better than gelf or b. agent. it's about sideboarding, and UG can't run anything good that's relevant besides what its always run.
So across the 75:
-No abrupt decay
-No dismember
-no darkblast
-no thoughtseize
Just for starters.
The list for good black vs eldrazi is longer than anything blue or green can supply. I mean, Seal of primordium? I just can't get behind suggestions like this.
UG doesn't interact with Eldrazi much on purpose, just kill them. The Bg build is more tempo based and needs to clear the way of blockers and remove problematic cards. UG however, just doesn't care. Swing with unblockable and get in as much poison as fast as you can. Main deck Viridian Corrupter deals with problematic cards like Chalice of the Void and Spellskite. Dismember is still a popular card in the UG build, despite the lack of black mana. But mostly the UG build just wants to race and in the face of an opposing Chalice can still grind out counters with Exalted triggers from Noble Hierarch or Buffs from Wild Defiance.
Please don't try to explain anything, you're just making this worse. I know full well what both decks do and how, i play both. They both do the same thing; they count to 10 as fast as humanly possible. There is no functional difference between the 2 decks beyond the variations to accomplish their goals, which again, are exactly the same. Count to 10 ASAP.
What I'M saying is that UG is worse at counting to 10 than BG. Its worse than BG at sideboarding. It's just plain worse.
This is my BG list. Some experimental cards I'm unsure of still, stole the corpse cur from tom ross's list. The 2 Vampire's Bite used to be Might of Old Krosa , however adjusting the sideboard from 3 Vampiric Link to 2 I wanted to try to shore up the burn/zoo matchup some. Still not sure I like them but I haven't gotten in nearly enough testing yet.
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T2 corrupter seems good vs their t2 chalice. CFB agrees.
http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/infect-in-the-post-pt-eldrazi-metagame/
I thought that Groundswell would be marginally better, but (anecdotally speaking) there have been more times in the last few months where I was 2 poison short of winning because I didn't have the land than times where I saved a creature from bolt with a Groundswell.
I don't think it's as relevant in a Chalice meta since they're both 1 CMC.
- Wild Defiance becomes a main deck card, I think. The Eldrazi decks are going to be using Gut Shot and Warping Wail as their removal, and WD blanks those cards. Also, it lets us win through a Chalice of the Void by turning our dead 1 cmc pump spells into Giant Growths. It's also a good way of winning through a Spellskite.
- Nature's Claim is pretty bad now that Chalice on 1 is something we will need a naturalize effect for. I'm going to replace Claims with more of Viridian Corruptor and Seal of Primordium.
BGW Junk / URB Grixis Shadow / RGB Lantern Control / WUBCBant Eldrazi
Current Legacy decks
BUG Shardless BUG / UWR Predict Miracles / RUG Canadian Thresh / WRBG 4c Loam
UB Reanimator
Might is an extra bit of pump for me to draw, i really don't much care for it tho, so i run 4 groundswell / 2 might of old krosa in my list. There is no surprise value in might, no ability to control a win, or win an otherwise unwinnable combat.
BUG is a trap, don't fall into it.
I think the real take away from the pt is that BG is better positioned to fight the eldrazi menace than UG. All the changes i see talked about here just seem bad.
The ship is sinking on UG. Meanwhile the BG boat is still nicely afloat.
BGW Junk / URB Grixis Shadow / RGB Lantern Control / WUBCBant Eldrazi
Current Legacy decks
BUG Shardless BUG / UWR Predict Miracles / RUG Canadian Thresh / WRBG 4c Loam
UB Reanimator
So across the 75:
-No abrupt decay
-No dismember
-no darkblast
-no thoughtseize
Just for starters.
The list for good black vs eldrazi is longer than anything blue or green can supply. I mean, Seal of primordium? I just can't get behind suggestions like this.
UG doesn't interact with Eldrazi much on purpose, just kill them. The Bg build is more tempo based and needs to clear the way of blockers and remove problematic cards. UG however, just doesn't care. Swing with unblockable and get in as much poison as fast as you can. Main deck Viridian Corrupter deals with problematic cards like Chalice of the Void and Spellskite. Dismember is still a popular card in the UG build, despite the lack of black mana. But mostly the UG build just wants to race and in the face of an opposing Chalice can still grind out counters with Exalted triggers from Noble Hierarch or Buffs from Wild Defiance.
Naturalize
Seal of Primordium
Tel-Jilad Justice
Glissa's Scorn
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
There is also Deglamer and Unravel the Æther which on occasion can be useful for getting rid of a Wurmcoil Engine, without leaving behind any tokens.
I still think Viridian Corrupter and Wild Defiance are the main answers to a Chalice on 1, but there does seem to be some merit to a 2 mana answer also.
Thanks for the response. As it sits in my SB, I am thinking of a +2 in addition to Nature's Claim. Unravel the Aether looks interesting since it also deals with Wurmcoil. I'm still tempted to add in Tel-Jilad Justice in addition to Nature's Claim for that Scry2 ability. Playing TJJ at EoT and scrying 2 to hopefully find the right pump spell or weed out an unneeded land for a chance at pump feels VERY tempting. May have to play test it. Thanks for the tips.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Standard
UB UB Midrange UB
Modern
GRWUBTribal Flames ZooGRWUB
RUGTemur DelverRUG
Legacy
UW Stoneblade UW
Standard
UB UB Midrange UB
Modern
GRWUBTribal Flames ZooGRWUB
RUGTemur DelverRUG
Legacy
UW Stoneblade UW
Please don't try to explain anything, you're just making this worse. I know full well what both decks do and how, i play both. They both do the same thing; they count to 10 as fast as humanly possible. There is no functional difference between the 2 decks beyond the variations to accomplish their goals, which again, are exactly the same. Count to 10 ASAP.
What I'M saying is that UG is worse at counting to 10 than BG. Its worse than BG at sideboarding. It's just plain worse.
4 Noble hierarch
4 Glistener Elf
4 Plague Stinger
4 Phyrexian Crusader
2 Spellskite
Spells
2 Mutagenic Growth
2 Rancor
2 Vampire's Bite
4 Groundswell
2 Become Immense
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Dismember
1 Marsh Flats
1 Polluted Delta
2 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Overgrown Tomb
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Darkblast
3 Thoughtseize
2 Vampiric Link
3 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Golgari Charm
2 Corpse Cur
This is my BG list. Some experimental cards I'm unsure of still, stole the corpse cur from tom ross's list. The 2 Vampire's Bite used to be Might of Old Krosa , however adjusting the sideboard from 3 Vampiric Link to 2 I wanted to try to shore up the burn/zoo matchup some. Still not sure I like them but I haven't gotten in nearly enough testing yet.