@Kovo, honestly GB is not that great, and I am not saying that without having tried. Phyrexian Crusader is awesome, but the double black cost hurts the deck. I think the best option if you want to run black is to go BUG. Add Breeding Pool, Blighted Agent and Noble Hierarch and you will have a far more brutal deck (even if you don't have the Hierarchs).
Back to UG, and I have found a list that recently placed in the Top 8 of an SCG-IQ, that is starting to look more like a deck that has adapted to the current modern meta.
Ichorclaw Myr resumes its place in the deck instead of Viridian Corrupter. It is faster, and is good at dispatching blockers. It should be noted that it is much better now that there are less Tarmogoyfs in the format.
Giant Growth is being run instead of Might of Old Krosa. I have been a big fan of that plan for a long time, but it is even more relevant now than it has been in the past with all the burn going around. Good to see it being tried in UG anyway.
3 Spellskite in the main deck. It seems like a good card in an aggro/tempo format. It is a great early blocker, saves creatures from removal, and can redirect a Lightning Bolt to the face. This is going to be more relevant than it has been in the past.
Also, I notice he is running 21 land, with 1 Island along with the usual 2 Forest. I wonder if that is because he has been running into Blood Moon.
2. Does mono black infect do well against the aggressive strategies of UR Delver and Burn? It looks pretty good on paper with cheap removal, disruption and resilient threats though treasure cruise against hand disruption is very good. (I've shown CLYDE's mono-black list from ~August as an example)
I have little to no experience playing G(UB) infect in Modern but I've played MonoB Infect for over a year before shelving the deck so here are my 2 cents about it: When I played with it, the deck wasn't as competitive as other Infect variations because it played a grindy, more control-ish game but all the "goodstuff.dec" that were popular back then did the grindy game better. Right now, because Jund(k) loses way too much life (fetches, shocks, Thoughtseize, Bobs) I think that a grindy MonoB is better placed than it used to be. I can't say how competitive it's compared to other archetypes but it's certainly a decent (and budget-y) possibility.
Between Funeral Charms, Disfigures and other stuff you have a very efficient removal suite. Raven's Crime can deal with flooding quite well, Wrench Mind is a solid discard card against most of the format as is Inquisition of Kozilek. To add insult to injury, Phyrexian Crusader is incredible hard to interact with in the format and Liliana of the Veil is bonkers. That said the Burn matchup is certainly not easy (doesn't matter if you are playing Phyrexian Arena for recurring CA or Night's Whisper for gas - they are just too fast and too efficient).
If you decide to test it out, you'll have to consider your gameplan against Burn (prioritizing Skullcrack is probably the right play as the card can temporarily disable the "protection from white" from Crusader. Also American versions of Burn play Mountains as their only basic land. Ghost Quarter could be a reasonable answer).
The matchups that felt pretty bad for MBInfect were G(r) Tron, Jund(Junk is slightly easier but not by much). There are certainly other bad matchups but those are the really bad ones I can name from the top of my head.
I am taking back what I have being saying about Necropede, although it has been reasonable against burn, it really hasn't been great against the field. The format in general seems faster and UR Delver is proving very hard to beat, especially with MonoG. I have a feeling that the period of MonoG being a viable Infect option is over, it just feels too slow.
The brutal speed and evasion of BUG, may actually prove to be the best option. That is what I have switched to now. One thing is for sure, the current format is proving to be very difficult for Infect.
You don't need Gods Willing for protection since you already have 4 Vines and 4 Blessing. If your reason for playing Gods Willing is that it makes your creature unblockable, cut out the middleman and play an unblockable creature (i.e. Blighted Agent) instead.
I don't agree with this logic, being someone who plays G/W Infect and it does reasonably well when I take it to weekly events (reliably 3-1's and 4-0's).
Blighted Agent is amazing, yes. But you're overlooking the value of Protection. Not only does it grant a sort of unblockability, it also saves a creature from spot removal. Let's be honest, you can pile up pump spells all day on your creature until they go to Abrupt Decay it. Protection is a nice way to swerve around this problem. And sure, you could say "Well, then pile a Vines of Vastwood or Apostle's Blessing spell on top of their Abrupt Decay." This thinking works in best case scenarios or against bad players.
You want to be able to beat good players, right? Good players won't try to kill your guy on your turn unless they've Probed you or Inquisitioned you and have a good handle on what amount of responses you have. They will usually sorcery speed burn or remove your guy so you'll run out of gas on your own turn.
It is for this reason that Emerge Unscathed is a powerhouse in infect, especially in a Wild Defiance list.
Lest we not forget, while splashing white may not provide us any great infecters, it does give us access to an incredible SB (Rest in Peace, Stony Silence). What more infecters do we need? I also see a lack of Plague Myr in most lists. I think this guy is great because if he's not the one going in, he can always help cast Apostle's Blessing or add to the much rarely used Phytoburst.
I guess I should also provide an argument for Phytoburst. Might of Old Krosa happens as an instant, right? Why not lump this bad boy in, too? We're going to rock some sorcery speed stuff, but things that will try to win right then. If you run enough protection, you'll have an evasive beast who survived the attempt to kill it. One thing I've noticed in playing infect is that the surprise rarely happens where you attack in and instant speed run them out of the game. They will always assume there might be a pump spell, rarely can you catch them that off guard.
For that reason, I'm also much less of a fan of Mutagenic Growth. Often times it will only lead to them being at 9 poison or something short of victory and the game turns around.
WUGPhelddagrif GGGOmnath, Locus of Mana BBBXiahou Dun, the One-Eyed RRRAshling, the Pilgrim BBWTeysa, Scion of Orzhov UUUTalrand, Sky Summoner UUBVela the Night-Clad GGBVhati il-Dal RUWRuhan of the Fomori
What exactly are you trying to say by bringing up Abrupt Decay? Play more protection spells? Do you think 4 Blessing and 4 Vines aren't enough? It's not like I'm forced to play white for more protection, there is Ranger's Guile.
I don't need Emerge Unscathed. You might play it in your GW deck so you can cast it on your opponent's turn to stop removal then again on your turn for evasion. In BUG I just need one protection spell for the removal; 8/12 of my creatures have built-in evasion.
This was in the Burn+Delver meta. I played Disfigure to kill the creatures in those decks.
Darkblast was for Young Pyromancer, it should be pretty good against Affinity also.
Is this necessary? You only ever need one blue and one black source at all times.
I am just worried about color screw, and I only run one Pendelhaven anyway, as I seem to like drawing the 2nd one!
I have noticed though that an online player called Lazy5000 has been running a 2/4 split with 4 Overgrown Tomb, instead of the usual 2/2 split. Blue has Noble Hierarch, so it seems he runs an extra couple of Overgrown Tomb to help with black.
Edit: Izzet, I notice in his latest result he has 1 Darkblast in the sideboard.
I was able to make day 2 at GP Madrid with the list I posted 2 pages ago, it was a really good weekend.
I finished 125th of 2000 players, I think I was the only infect deck who made day 2.
My 2 loss in day 1 : merfolk (with spellskite maindeck, outch !!!) and jund (I kept a bad hand in game 3 with only one infect creature and have been discarded).
I played in a small 4-round tourney more than a week ago. :))
2-0 vs. UWr Control
2-1 vs. Burn (still perfect record in matches; Necropede totally saved me.)
0-2 vs. UR Tempo (I hate Treasure Cruise so much)
2-1 vs. Melira Pod
For the MonoG Infect list, would it be better nowadays to have the 2 Spellskites maindecked and have the full 4 Dismembers in the SB instead?
@Ultra_Magnus
Mind checking my list out, I have modified the SB for a more comprehensive scrying package but kept most ov your original list intact (it's a work ov art after all).
Went to 2 haven after lots of reading and playing (If the Boss man Ross says 2 is right, 2 is right^^),
I seem to have better luck not drawing the second and with the new legend rule they aren't necessarily bad
So far this iteration feels the most solid to me, it plays much like the legacy version in that it is very calmly paced, and methodical.
You aren't really playing an-all in deck(only when the timing is right).
I would also like to thank you and everyone in this thread for your devotion to developing this deck to the point it is at now,
I read this entire thread today and was astonished at the amount ov development that has gone into making Mono green the monster it is today.
Thanks calexil, it is much appreciated. I recently went in a big tourney with the Necropede list, thinking it would be good against UR Delver, and ended up playing a bunch of matches against Delver and got the Necropede out, only to have it hit with Vapor Snag, Remand or Spell Snare each time, while my opponent successfully bought the time he needed to win. So for the MonoG version I have put back in Sylvan Scrying, which has definitely been a great card for the deck. Necropede has been good against Burn though.
As has been suggested I am starting to think main decking 2 Spellskite instead of the 2 Dismember could be useful in the current format, although it will still get bounced and countered. Maybe something like Gut Shot could be useful in the side to help slow Delver down.
As for the plan for running a tool box of land in the sideboard, I have had some success running a single Tectonic Edge in the side, which I boarded in against Scapeshift and Tron, but of course Ghost Quarter would be better against Tron. Sejiri Steppe looks good, as tutor-able evasion. Bojuka Bog could be interesting to keep Treasure Cruise at bay. Let us know how you go with it!
4x Forest
4x Inkmoth Nexus
4x Overgrown Tomb
1x Temple Garden
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Windswept Heath
2x Wooded Foothills
2x Woodland Cemetery
Instant (22)
4x Apostle's Blessing
4x Groundswell
4x Might of Old Krosa
4x Mutagenic Growth
2x Predator's Strike
4x Vines of Vastwood
4x Glistener Elf
2x Ichorclaw Myr
2x Phyrexian Crusader
4x Plague Stinger
3x Nature's Claim
3x Abrupt Decay
3x Defense Grid
1x Rancor
3x Tormod's Crypt
2x Viridian Corrupter
3x Rancor
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
Back to UG, and I have found a list that recently placed in the Top 8 of an SCG-IQ, that is starting to look more like a deck that has adapted to the current modern meta.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=74927
4 Blighted Agent
4 Glistener Elf
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Spellskite
4 Giant Growth
4 Groundswell
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Vines of Vastwood
1 Dismember
3 Distortion Strike
1 Cathedral of War
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Forest
1 Island
2 Pendelhaven
4 Tormod's Crypt
2 Apostle's Blessing
3 Dismember
2 Hurkyl's Recall
4 Nature's Claim
Ichorclaw Myr resumes its place in the deck instead of Viridian Corrupter. It is faster, and is good at dispatching blockers. It should be noted that it is much better now that there are less Tarmogoyfs in the format.
Giant Growth is being run instead of Might of Old Krosa. I have been a big fan of that plan for a long time, but it is even more relevant now than it has been in the past with all the burn going around. Good to see it being tried in UG anyway.
3 Spellskite in the main deck. It seems like a good card in an aggro/tempo format. It is a great early blocker, saves creatures from removal, and can redirect a Lightning Bolt to the face. This is going to be more relevant than it has been in the past.
Also, I notice he is running 21 land, with 1 Island along with the usual 2 Forest. I wonder if that is because he has been running into Blood Moon.
4x Breeding Pool
3x Forest
4x Inkmoth Nexus
1x Island
1x Misty Rainforest
2x Pendelhaven
4x Windswept Heath
3x Wooded Foothills
Instant (20)
2x Apostle's Blessing
2x Dismember
4x Giant Growth
4x Groundswell
4x Mutagenic Growth
4x Vines of Vastwood
4x Blighted Agent
4x Glistener Elf
4x Ichorclaw Myr
3x Spellskite
2x Apostle's Blessing
3x Defense Grid
2x Dismember
3x Nature's Claim
3x Tormod's Crypt
2x Viridian Corrupter
3x Distortion Strike
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
I have little to no experience playing G(UB) infect in Modern but I've played MonoB Infect for over a year before shelving the deck so here are my 2 cents about it: When I played with it, the deck wasn't as competitive as other Infect variations because it played a grindy, more control-ish game but all the "goodstuff.dec" that were popular back then did the grindy game better. Right now, because Jund(k) loses way too much life (fetches, shocks, Thoughtseize, Bobs) I think that a grindy MonoB is better placed than it used to be. I can't say how competitive it's compared to other archetypes but it's certainly a decent (and budget-y) possibility.
Between Funeral Charms, Disfigures and other stuff you have a very efficient removal suite. Raven's Crime can deal with flooding quite well, Wrench Mind is a solid discard card against most of the format as is Inquisition of Kozilek. To add insult to injury, Phyrexian Crusader is incredible hard to interact with in the format and Liliana of the Veil is bonkers. That said the Burn matchup is certainly not easy (doesn't matter if you are playing Phyrexian Arena for recurring CA or Night's Whisper for gas - they are just too fast and too efficient).
If you decide to test it out, you'll have to consider your gameplan against Burn (prioritizing Skullcrack is probably the right play as the card can temporarily disable the "protection from white" from Crusader. Also American versions of Burn play Mountains as their only basic land. Ghost Quarter could be a reasonable answer).
The matchups that felt pretty bad for MBInfect were G(r) Tron, Jund(Junk is slightly easier but not by much). There are certainly other bad matchups but those are the really bad ones I can name from the top of my head.
UB Fae
TES
Pox
I do stand by what I said about Ichorclaw Myr being a better option than Viridian Corrupter at the moment in UG.
The brutal speed and evasion of BUG, may actually prove to be the best option. That is what I have switched to now. One thing is for sure, the current format is proving to be very difficult for Infect.
I don't agree with this logic, being someone who plays G/W Infect and it does reasonably well when I take it to weekly events (reliably 3-1's and 4-0's).
Blighted Agent is amazing, yes. But you're overlooking the value of Protection. Not only does it grant a sort of unblockability, it also saves a creature from spot removal. Let's be honest, you can pile up pump spells all day on your creature until they go to Abrupt Decay it. Protection is a nice way to swerve around this problem. And sure, you could say "Well, then pile a Vines of Vastwood or Apostle's Blessing spell on top of their Abrupt Decay." This thinking works in best case scenarios or against bad players.
You want to be able to beat good players, right? Good players won't try to kill your guy on your turn unless they've Probed you or Inquisitioned you and have a good handle on what amount of responses you have. They will usually sorcery speed burn or remove your guy so you'll run out of gas on your own turn.
It is for this reason that Emerge Unscathed is a powerhouse in infect, especially in a Wild Defiance list.
Lest we not forget, while splashing white may not provide us any great infecters, it does give us access to an incredible SB (Rest in Peace, Stony Silence). What more infecters do we need? I also see a lack of Plague Myr in most lists. I think this guy is great because if he's not the one going in, he can always help cast Apostle's Blessing or add to the much rarely used Phytoburst.
I guess I should also provide an argument for Phytoburst. Might of Old Krosa happens as an instant, right? Why not lump this bad boy in, too? We're going to rock some sorcery speed stuff, but things that will try to win right then. If you run enough protection, you'll have an evasive beast who survived the attempt to kill it. One thing I've noticed in playing infect is that the surprise rarely happens where you attack in and instant speed run them out of the game. They will always assume there might be a pump spell, rarely can you catch them that off guard.
For that reason, I'm also much less of a fan of Mutagenic Growth. Often times it will only lead to them being at 9 poison or something short of victory and the game turns around.
B Infect
BW Death & Taxes
UBR Affinity
R Burn
UBR Sac Land Tendrils
UBRG Oops, All Spells
WUG Phelddagrif
GGG Omnath, Locus of Mana
BBB Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
RRR Ashling, the Pilgrim
BBW Teysa, Scion of Orzhov
UUU Talrand, Sky Summoner
UUB Vela the Night-Clad
GGB Vhati il-Dal
RUW Ruhan of the Fomori
I don't need Emerge Unscathed. You might play it in your GW deck so you can cast it on your opponent's turn to stop removal then again on your turn for evasion. In BUG I just need one protection spell for the removal; 8/12 of my creatures have built-in evasion.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
4 Windswept Heath
3 Breeding Pool
3 Overgrown Tomb
1 Pendelhaven
1 Forest
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Glistener Elf
4 Blighted Agent
4 Plague Stinger
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Groundswell
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Apostle's Blessing
4 Rancor
4 Nature's Claim
4 Spell Pierce
2 Dismember
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Spellskite
1 Creeping Corrosion
I am only running 1 Pendelhaven and 1 Forest to try and maximize the the number of Breeding Pool and Overgrown Tomb, while still keeping the land count at 20. I have Spell Pierce in the side but that might get replaced with Inquisition of Kozilek.
Is this necessary? You only ever need one blue and one black source at all times.
My SB when I last updated the deck was:
2 Dismember
1 Darkblast
2 Disfigure
2 Spellskite
1 Wild Defiance
3 Thoughtseize
This was in the Burn+Delver meta. I played Disfigure to kill the creatures in those decks.
Darkblast was for Young Pyromancer, it should be pretty good against Affinity also.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
I have noticed though that an online player called Lazy5000 has been running a 2/4 split with 4 Overgrown Tomb, instead of the usual 2/2 split. Blue has Noble Hierarch, so it seems he runs an extra couple of Overgrown Tomb to help with black.
Edit: Izzet, I notice in his latest result he has 1 Darkblast in the sideboard.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
I was able to make day 2 at GP Madrid with the list I posted 2 pages ago, it was a really good weekend.
I finished 125th of 2000 players, I think I was the only infect deck who made day 2.
My 2 loss in day 1 : merfolk (with spellskite maindeck, outch !!!) and jund (I kept a bad hand in game 3 with only one infect creature and have been discarded).
I would add à secondary Wild defiance MD considering the number of burn/scapeshift/delver decks I met.
And also a singleton bird to curve the deck perfectly.
becoming Immense has been really Good, i'll sure keep il MD (in place of Phytoburst)
2-0 vs. UWr Control
2-1 vs. Burn (still perfect record in matches; Necropede totally saved me.)
0-2 vs. UR Tempo (I hate Treasure Cruise so much)
2-1 vs. Melira Pod
For the MonoG Infect list, would it be better nowadays to have the 2 Spellskites maindecked and have the full 4 Dismembers in the SB instead?
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
4x Apostle's Blessing
4x Giant Growth
4x Groundswell
4x Mutagenic Growth
4x Ranger's Guile
4x Vines of Vastwood
Sorcery (4)
4x Distortion Strike
Land (20)
4x Breeding Pool
2x Forest
4x Inkmoth Nexus
2x Pendelhaven
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Dismember
3x Dispel
2x Hunt the Hunter
3x Nature's Claim
3x Spellskite
4x Blighted Agent
4x Glistener Elf
4x Viridian Corrupter
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
Mind checking my list out, I have modified the SB for a more comprehensive scrying package but kept most ov your original list intact (it's a work ov art after all).
Went to 2 haven after lots of reading and playing (If the Boss man Ross says 2 is right, 2 is right^^),
I seem to have better luck not drawing the second and with the new legend rule they aren't necessarily bad
12 Forest
2 Pendelhaven
4 Cathedral of War
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Glistener Elf
4 Ichorclaw Myr
4 Sylvan Scrying
4 Rancor
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Giant Growth
4 Groundswell
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Apostle's Blessing
2 Dismember
3 Tormod's Crypt
4 Nature's Claim
1 Spellskite
2 Guttural Response
2 Dismember
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Bojuka Bog
So far this iteration feels the most solid to me, it plays much like the legacy version in that it is very calmly paced, and methodical.
You aren't really playing an-all in deck(only when the timing is right).
I would also like to thank you and everyone in this thread for your devotion to developing this deck to the point it is at now,
I read this entire thread today and was astonished at the amount ov development that has gone into making Mono green the monster it is today.
As has been suggested I am starting to think main decking 2 Spellskite instead of the 2 Dismember could be useful in the current format, although it will still get bounced and countered. Maybe something like Gut Shot could be useful in the side to help slow Delver down.
As for the plan for running a tool box of land in the sideboard, I have had some success running a single Tectonic Edge in the side, which I boarded in against Scapeshift and Tron, but of course Ghost Quarter would be better against Tron. Sejiri Steppe looks good, as tutor-able evasion. Bojuka Bog could be interesting to keep Treasure Cruise at bay. Let us know how you go with it!