I think you'll like the two copies of Become Immense. From reading your most recent reports it seems like most of your matchups are pretty fast, but in anything that has a tendency to get grindy it is an absolute all-star.
I have won a number of games recently from 1-2 poison counters with something like a single infecter, pendlehaven, hierarch and boom rip a BI after a long game of getting 1-1'd.
Yea, I want to give BI another shot. This time as a 2-of. Last time it was just a 1-of. Ill let you guys know next Monday
I've been considering giving Infect a try as my 2nd Modern deck in paper (first being GW DnT). I used to play lots of Wee/Fiend style decks when I still played Pauper on MTGO, so I've long enjoyed the aggro/combo play style (Wee/Fiend just doesn't feel nearly as powerful in Modern w/ the absence of blue cantrips). I've been researching on the deck and trying to determine whether I'd prefer to go UG or BUG and have a question regarding BUG.
Every BUG list I've seen appears to default to 4x Plague Stinger and upping the Apostle's Blessing count to a 4-of (usually from 2x) as well. I was curious why this is? With the added creature count, I can see raising the Blessing count, but why all the way to 4x? Why not instead 2x Stinger and 3x Blessing and leaving room for a few more spells?
I don't mean to imply it's right or wrong, but would like to know what those that have played it think. Do you ever feel like you either have too many creatures/protection or not enough pump? Or does it improve consistency of protecting an 'all in' approach? Curious to hear others' thoughts.
I run 3 Blessing and 4 Stinger with 2 maindeck Wild Defiance.
I feel like this allows us to swing past those pesky lingering souls and potentially trigger a free pump.
I'm liking a Spell Pierce in the main over the third Blessing, it doesn't trigger Defiance obviously but has much wider applications, including countering the first Souls (which is often all you need).
All I would say if you are wanting to play Infect is test test test. It is not forgiving at all, spell sequencing and mulligans are often quite difficult and frequently you will look back at the end of a game and be able to find a line that could have won you the game had you seen it/chosen it. Unlike in some other decks you typically don't get much in the way of card draw or filtering and your cards are not individually powerful.
The upside, of course, is that you frequently win game 1 on turn 3.
I've been considering giving Infect a try as my 2nd Modern deck in paper (first being GW DnT). I used to play lots of Wee/Fiend style decks when I still played Pauper on MTGO, so I've long enjoyed the aggro/combo play style (Wee/Fiend just doesn't feel nearly as powerful in Modern w/ the absence of blue cantrips). I've been researching on the deck and trying to determine whether I'd prefer to go UG or BUG and have a question regarding BUG.
Every BUG list I've seen appears to default to 4x Plague Stinger and upping the Apostle's Blessing count to a 4-of (usually from 2x) as well. I was curious why this is? With the added creature count, I can see raising the Blessing count, but why all the way to 4x? Why not instead 2x Stinger and 3x Blessing and leaving room for a few more spells?
I don't mean to imply it's right or wrong, but would like to know what those that have played it think. Do you ever feel like you either have too many creatures/protection or not enough pump? Or does it improve consistency of protecting an 'all in' approach? Curious to hear others' thoughts.
Removal is your enemy. Even though BUG is probably the most resilient to removal thanks to our extra 4 infect creatures. Also, all of our infect creatures are powerful (we don't usually run the artifact infect creatures which are...meh).
Regardless, creature protection is very important. And it can also provided "cannot be blocked" to your creatures. I find a 4x vines and 4x blessing a must. But thats my taste.
I find a 4x vines and 4x blessing a must. But thats my taste.
Completely agree. One of the reasons Apostle's Blessing is so good, besides the fact that it can counter a removal spell, and/or make your creature unblockable, is the fact that you can cast it with Inkmoth Nexus, allowing you to use all your other lands for pump spells if required.
Why doesn't UG run 4 blessing and BUG usually does? I think at least in part, UG lists have been influenced by Tom Ross and he cut back on the number of blessings a while ago, along with some other interesting decisions. In fact in his IQ win last year he didn't run any blessings at all: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=68492
Like I said, its probably a taste difference, but AB has been invaluable for me in my match-ups. Its never been a dead card, and instant speed evasion/protection is super useful when you need tow in by turn 3-4. Based on what I saw at the recent PT, I am disappointed in how infect did overall. It could have done much, much better. So who knows? Maybe the boss has lost his touch
I have been reviewing my list and thought that increasing my mainboard evasion could be decent. Pulled 1x Become Immense (aka Get Big) for a 1x Distortion Strike.
Should this really be Tier 1 after the Pro Tour? These type of events tend to be very inbreed. You had a team of very powerful players all play this deck. just about any deck they played would have put a few people in the Top 32, the players are that good. Not a single Infect player made the Top 8. I feel like this will not be a Top Tier deck and we should hold off on what is "Tier one" until we have more results than one inbred event.
Should this really be Tier 1 after the Pro Tour? These type of events tend to be very inbreed. You had a team of very powerful players all play this deck. just about any deck they played would have put a few people in the Top 32, the players are that good. Not a single Infect player made the Top 8. I feel like this will not be a Top Tier deck and we should hold off on what is "Tier one" until we have more results than one inbred event.
Its Tier 1 based on the formula MTGS has been using for a long, long time. Cant complain about it once you see a deck you don't agree with. If you want to be consistent and non-hypocritical. Go complain about the other tier 1 decks who didnt make it to top 8.
Should this really be Tier 1 after the Pro Tour? These type of events tend to be very inbreed. You had a team of very powerful players all play this deck. just about any deck they played would have put a few people in the Top 32, the players are that good. Not a single Infect player made the Top 8. I feel like this will not be a Top Tier deck and we should hold off on what is "Tier one" until we have more results than one inbred event.
Forum updates are monthly now, not quarterly. There is no way this would have made tier 1 with quarterly data, but with monthly data it gets the nod. A lot of people don't realize that this deck was already performing pretty well in paper AND MTGO even before the PT. Also, it's misleading to say that the deck didn't get into the T8. Tyler Hill had the second highest Modern-only point score of any player. Finkel had the 8th. So although their draft performance kept them out of the overall T8, Infect sent 2 players to the Modern-only T8.
If the deck was just a PT flash in the pan then it will be gone in a month. If not, then it sticks around.
Should this really be Tier 1 after the Pro Tour? These type of events tend to be very inbreed. You had a team of very powerful players all play this deck. just about any deck they played would have put a few people in the Top 32, the players are that good. Not a single Infect player made the Top 8. I feel like this will not be a Top Tier deck and we should hold off on what is "Tier one" until we have more results than one inbred event.
Forum updates are monthly now, not quarterly. There is no way this would have made tier 1 with quarterly data, but with monthly data it gets the nod. A lot of people don't realize that this deck was already performing pretty well in paper AND MTGO even before the PT. Also, it's misleading to say that the deck didn't get into the T8. Tyler Hill had the second highest Modern-only point score of any player. Finkel had the 8th. So although their draft performance kept them out of the overall T8, Infect sent 2 players to the Modern-only T8.
If the deck was just a PT flash in the pan then it will be gone in a month. If not, then it sticks around.
BUG tends to shock itself more that UG, which is painful in an already difficult and prevalent burn matchup. Also, I find plague stinger mediocre, and the U/G sideboard options nearly as good as their black counterparts.
When it comes to burn, I cant disagree. This leads me to believe that UG is just more of a meta call. I still like BUG over UG. If my local meta gets out of hand with Burn, then maybe Ill try UG, but right now I like my black evasion and abrupt decay.
yeah they were expecting a tone of abzan, 4X become 4X gitaxian 4X mutagenic lets you fuel the yard with the 9X fetchlands they were running since junk doesn't have fast clock or too much pressure early on.
they also believed that thoughtseize, inquisition etc will aid in their become immense over groundswell plan.
decks that you run need to be resilient since it's a much lower competitive level so your infect deck needs to be more resilient to all sorts of wacky combos
I know all the cards serve their functions and all, but Tyler Hill's smorgasboard of 1-ofs is driving me nuts. :))
At least it was only running 1 Become Immense
I find it interesting that the Infect deck that did the best in the modern portion of the Pro Tour was only running 1 Become Immense and 4 Groundswell.
Yea, I want to give BI another shot. This time as a 2-of. Last time it was just a 1-of. Ill let you guys know next Monday
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
Every BUG list I've seen appears to default to 4x Plague Stinger and upping the Apostle's Blessing count to a 4-of (usually from 2x) as well. I was curious why this is? With the added creature count, I can see raising the Blessing count, but why all the way to 4x? Why not instead 2x Stinger and 3x Blessing and leaving room for a few more spells?
I don't mean to imply it's right or wrong, but would like to know what those that have played it think. Do you ever feel like you either have too many creatures/protection or not enough pump? Or does it improve consistency of protecting an 'all in' approach? Curious to hear others' thoughts.
I feel like this allows us to swing past those pesky lingering souls and potentially trigger a free pump.
BWBAthreos, God of PassageBWB (Shadowborn Clerics)
I'm liking a Spell Pierce in the main over the third Blessing, it doesn't trigger Defiance obviously but has much wider applications, including countering the first Souls (which is often all you need).
RUGTemur ScapeshiftGUR
UWRJeskai ControlRWU
UGUG InfectGU
The upside, of course, is that you frequently win game 1 on turn 3.
Removal is your enemy. Even though BUG is probably the most resilient to removal thanks to our extra 4 infect creatures. Also, all of our infect creatures are powerful (we don't usually run the artifact infect creatures which are...meh).
Regardless, creature protection is very important. And it can also provided "cannot be blocked" to your creatures. I find a 4x vines and 4x blessing a must. But thats my taste.
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
Completely agree. One of the reasons Apostle's Blessing is so good, besides the fact that it can counter a removal spell, and/or make your creature unblockable, is the fact that you can cast it with Inkmoth Nexus, allowing you to use all your other lands for pump spells if required.
Why doesn't UG run 4 blessing and BUG usually does? I think at least in part, UG lists have been influenced by Tom Ross and he cut back on the number of blessings a while ago, along with some other interesting decisions. In fact in his IQ win last year he didn't run any blessings at all:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=68492
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
4 Blighted Agent
4 Plague Stinger
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Wild Defiance
2 Distortion Strike
4 Groundswell
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Vines of Vastwood
3 Apostle's Blessing
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Breeding Pool
4 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Pendelhaven
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Spellskite
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Nature's Claim
3 Duress
2 Monastery Siege
1 Dryad Arbor
BWBAthreos, God of PassageBWB (Shadowborn Clerics)
http://www.reddit.com/r/spikes/comments/2vjddz/moderninterest_in_infect_primer_from_top/
Its Tier 1 based on the formula MTGS has been using for a long, long time. Cant complain about it once you see a deck you don't agree with. If you want to be consistent and non-hypocritical. Go complain about the other tier 1 decks who didnt make it to top 8.
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Breeding Pool
3 Forest
2 Pendelhaven
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Blighted Agent
4 Glistener Elf
2 Spellskite
2 Sylvan Scrying
3 Mutagenic Growth
3 Might of Old Krosa
4 Vines of Vastwood
2 Apostle's Blessing
1 Spell Pierce
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Become Immense
1 Dismember
2 Wild Defiance
2 Rancor
1 Spellskite
1 Spell Pierce
1 Dismember
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Twisted Image
3 Nature's Claim
2 Viridian Corrupter
1 Wall of Roots
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Dryad Arbor
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
Forum updates are monthly now, not quarterly. There is no way this would have made tier 1 with quarterly data, but with monthly data it gets the nod. A lot of people don't realize that this deck was already performing pretty well in paper AND MTGO even before the PT. Also, it's misleading to say that the deck didn't get into the T8. Tyler Hill had the second highest Modern-only point score of any player. Finkel had the 8th. So although their draft performance kept them out of the overall T8, Infect sent 2 players to the Modern-only T8.
If the deck was just a PT flash in the pan then it will be gone in a month. If not, then it sticks around.
Fair enough
When it comes to burn, I cant disagree. This leads me to believe that UG is just more of a meta call. I still like BUG over UG. If my local meta gets out of hand with Burn, then maybe Ill try UG, but right now I like my black evasion and abrupt decay.
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
they also believed that thoughtseize, inquisition etc will aid in their become immense over groundswell plan.
decks that you run need to be resilient since it's a much lower competitive level so your infect deck needs to be more resilient to all sorts of wacky combos
I find it interesting that the Infect deck that did the best in the modern portion of the Pro Tour was only running 1 Become Immense and 4 Groundswell.