I noticed people are not playing Swords anymore. Are they dropping them in favour of Liliana? I for one have become convinced that, if anything, Sword of Feast and Famine should be a staple in UB Fae lists (which is what it actually was back in the extended days). SoFaF synergizes beautifully with manlands, it quickens your clock without having to tap out.
Furthermore, I have completely cut Mistbind Clique and not regretted it once. This card is just too vulnerable and narrow, plus it's just bad as a topdeck if you don't have any other faeries. Usually, Mistbind Clique catches a killspell right after resolving or provokes your opponent to flash a chord of calling, restoration angel, splinter twin etc.
As for Liliana: i'm still not convinced at all. In my testings she seemed far too clunky at 3 mana sorcery speed. We mustn't forget Fae is a draw- go deck.
I noticed people are not playing Swords anymore. Are they dropping them in favour of Liliana? I for one have become convinced that, if anything, Sword of Feast and Famine should be a staple in UB Fae lists (which is what it actually was back in the extended days). SoFaF synergizes beautifully with manlands, it quickens your clock without having to tap out.
Furthermore, I have completely cut Mistbind Clique and not regretted it once. This card is just too vulnerable and narrow, plus it's just bad as a topdeck if you don't have any other faeries. Usually, Mistbind Clique catches a killspell right after resolving or provokes your opponent to flash a chord of calling, restoration angel, splinter twin etc.
As for Liliana: i'm still not convinced at all. In my testings she seemed far too clunky at 3 mana sorcery speed. We mustn't forget Fae is a draw- go deck.
What are you running as a replacement for Mistbind Clique?
@ PTQ decklist :
My Meta is FAR FAR too full of control + affinity to try and run that many time warps
@ Anthreion
-If you're in a position where you topdeck a mistbind with no faeries in play, I think you already lost the game. That means no BB, no spellstutter, no vendilion, no tokens and no mutavault. If thats your situation, the ONLY decent topdecks you could pull would be a sword with 9 mana on board (5 for sword + tarpit + 3 for tarpit activation) or a cryptic.
-If you're a fan of swords, I would imagine you should be a fan of mistbind. Having the 5th land + sword in hand, and on opponents turning casting the mistbind goes only a few ways (considering you can champion without fear of removal of your board) :
You champion and theyre tapped out, free to play sword.
You champion and they path/combust the mistbind and then are tapped out, free to play sword.
They counter leak your mistbind, lay their 5th/6th land and possibly have more counter/kill for sword + equip... this sucks.
They counter your mistbind without another counter in hand, possible to play/equip sword (could be unknown hand).
They counter your mistbind and play a blocker for your sword wielder.
There are of course more situations if you want to expand them all, but mistbind on opponents upkeep followed by sword almost always wins games. The later the games get, the most chances you have of successfully pulling this off :
Thoughtseize/IoK to know if its clear
Counter Backup to mistbind
Removal for potential blockers
On a side note(ish), this is what Im considering moving towards for M15 : (I havent had a ton of testing but let me know what you think everyone)
Im not sold on the sideboard, there probably things that are better than extirpate for example. Spreading Seas seems like a must vs Tron in addition to the 2 tec edge in the main. I like to be able to side into a more controlling shell when necessary which is where the mana leaks and spell snare come in big time. I think a couple of spot removal spells might be better suited for the sideboard in addition to the countermagic. If damnation is blown in game 1 people are less likely to over-extend into it
I want to try damnation if I am running Liliana. The hope is that liliana + bitterblossom will force creature based decks to over-commit, and non-creature based decks just roll over to it. Sword of light and shadow is to help offset the watery grave/thoughtseize/BB painful base, as well if we are using damnation then its more likely (even against removal light decks that are creature heavy) that we will have target to return. The creatures we can get back with an active light/shadow is probably better than any other deck can boast... its a counter, its a 'discard', its a tap your lands, it can be exactly what we need every time.
I am slightly concerned with a few matchups without any instant speed removal. Between Mistbind, Cryptic, Spellstutter, and Vendillion I am hoping that scapeshift and twin cant go off. Tron is probably still a bad pre-board matchup but hopefully gets better post-board (might need a few more cards for it).
@ PTQ decklist :
My Meta is FAR FAR too full of control + affinity to try and run that many time warps
@ Anthreion
-If you're in a position where you topdeck a mistbind with no faeries in play, I think you already lost the game. That means no BB, no spellstutter, no vendilion, no tokens and no mutavault. If thats your situation, the ONLY decent topdecks you could pull would be a sword with 9 mana on board (5 for sword + tarpit + 3 for tarpit activation) or a cryptic.
-If you're a fan of swords, I would imagine you should be a fan of mistbind. Having the 5th land + sword in hand, and on opponents turning casting the mistbind goes only a few ways (considering you can champion without fear of removal of your board) :
You champion and theyre tapped out, free to play sword.
You champion and they path/combust the mistbind and then are tapped out, free to play sword.
They counter leak your mistbind, lay their 5th/6th land and possibly have more counter/kill for sword + equip... this sucks.
They counter your mistbind without another counter in hand, possible to play/equip sword (could be unknown hand).
They counter your mistbind and play a blocker for your sword wielder.
There are of course more situations if you want to expand them all, but mistbind on opponents upkeep followed by sword almost always wins games. The later the games get, the most chances you have of successfully pulling this off :
Thoughtseize/IoK to know if its clear
Counter Backup to mistbind
Removal for potential blockers
On a side note(ish), this is what Im considering moving towards for M15 : (I havent had a ton of testing but let me know what you think everyone)
Im not sold on the sideboard, there probably things that are better than extirpate for example. Spreading Seas seems like a must vs Tron in addition to the 2 tec edge in the main. I like to be able to side into a more controlling shell when necessary which is where the mana leaks and spell snare come in big time. I think a couple of spot removal spells might be better suited for the sideboard in addition to the countermagic. If damnation is blown in game 1 people are less likely to over-extend into it
I want to try damnation if I am running Liliana. The hope is that liliana + bitterblossom will force creature based decks to over-commit, and non-creature based decks just roll over to it. Sword of light and shadow is to help offset the watery grave/thoughtseize/BB painful base, as well if we are using damnation then its more likely (even against removal light decks that are creature heavy) that we will have target to return. The creatures we can get back with an active light/shadow is probably better than any other deck can boast... its a counter, its a 'discard', its a tap your lands, it can be exactly what we need every time.
I am slightly concerned with a few matchups without any instant speed removal. Between Mistbind, Cryptic, Spellstutter, and Vendillion I am hoping that scapeshift and twin cant go off. Tron is probably still a bad pre-board matchup but hopefully gets better post-board (might need a few more cards for it).
This list seems like it has really bad Combo matchups.
This list seems like it has really bad Combo matchups.
Yes I made specific mention of that. The deck still has Vendilion Clique(x3), Mistbind Clique(x3), Thoughtseize(x3), Cryptic Command(x3), and Remand(x3) as its only direct out to combos(occasionally SSS(x4) or Liliana(x3) can do these things too). Liliana helps as backup for that, and against the combos that exist in modern right now that is typically enough to buy 1 round and then damnation, scapeshift seems like the worst of the combo matchups. So the deck still has a potential for 22 combo piece break-ups, which is 1/3 of the deck.
damnation (after buying 1 round from those mentioned above) stops :
RWU combo
Twin
Pod (in some situations)
Thanks for finding this list! Mistbind Clique into Time Warp seems brilliant. It's what Sword of Feast and Fammine is trying to accomplish, but better. The singleton Serum Visions seems a bit odd, but it sort of makes sense over the 5th Thoughtseize effect. The Snapcaster Suite here is particularly strong I think, and Serum Visions helps in that regard. I love the Peppersmoke. I've been experimenting with it extensively, since in the old days Peppersmoke was often a brilliant removal card in Faeries. I'm curious about what this meta looked like to justify Peppersmoke main.
Other interesting things are the 26 lands and the 3 remands. I've wafted from 25 to 27 lands depending on my build, and while the consensus on this thread appears to be 25, I keep wanting to go higher to not lose turn 4 when I can't play Mistbind Clique or Cryptic Command. It does seem that 25 is too low if you want to bring Wurmcoil Engine out of the sideboard. All in all I really like the look of this list and want to try it myself.
Matignon use to be one of my favorite players, and I'm sure he is still one of the best players in the world. I have no idea what is going on with this list and the spells seem very expensive for modern, but apparently it worked. He didn't hold back at all on v or m clique and instead cut stuff lower on the curve. I'm also curious how his meta look and what type of competition he had. Maybe he just out played everyone else in the room with a bad deck.
Either way I love the deck and congrats.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
I noticed people are not playing Swords anymore. Are they dropping them in favour of Liliana? I for one have become convinced that, if anything, Sword of Feast and Famine should be a staple in UB Fae lists (which is what it actually was back in the extended days). SoFaF synergizes beautifully with manlands, it quickens your clock without having to tap out.
Furthermore, I have completely cut Mistbind Clique and not regretted it once. This card is just too vulnerable and narrow, plus it's just bad as a topdeck if you don't have any other faeries. Usually, Mistbind Clique catches a killspell right after resolving or provokes your opponent to flash a chord of calling, restoration angel, splinter twin etc.
As for Liliana: i'm still not convinced at all. In my testings she seemed far too clunky at 3 mana sorcery speed. We mustn't forget Fae is a draw- go deck.
What are you running as a replacement for Mistbind Clique?
I took them out in favour of a fourth cryptic and two snapcasters. I can postthe list if anyone is interested. So far, i've been really happy with the change.
I noticed people are not playing Swords anymore. Are they dropping them in favour of Liliana? I for one have become convinced that, if anything, Sword of Feast and Famine should be a staple in UB Fae lists (which is what it actually was back in the extended days). SoFaF synergizes beautifully with manlands, it quickens your clock without having to tap out.
Furthermore, I have completely cut Mistbind Clique and not regretted it once. This card is just too vulnerable and narrow, plus it's just bad as a topdeck if you don't have any other faeries. Usually, Mistbind Clique catches a killspell right after resolving or provokes your opponent to flash a chord of calling, restoration angel, splinter twin etc.
As for Liliana: i'm still not convinced at all. In my testings she seemed far too clunky at 3 mana sorcery speed. We mustn't forget Fae is a draw- go deck.
What are you running as a replacement for Mistbind Clique?
I took them out in favour of a fourth cryptic and two snapcasters. I can postthe list if anyone is interested. So far, i've been really happy with the change.
If you could post the list it would be much appreciated.
I took them out in favour of a fourth cryptic and two snapcasters. I can postthe list if anyone is interested. So far, i've been really happy with the change.
3 IoK
2 Thoughtseize
---
2 Spell Snare
3 Mana Leak (4 might be an option, but I don't know what to cut)
4 Cryptic Command
---
1 Disfigure (Surprisingly useful ad a 1-of)
2 Smother
2 GftT
---
4 Bitterblossom
---
2 Sword of Feast and F.
---
4 Spellstutter
2 Snapcaster
3 Vendilion
---
4 Mutavault
4 Creeping T. P.
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Island
2 Ghost Quarter (better than T. Edge, trust me)
4 Watery Grave (Glen is no good with only 11 Faeries)
4 River of Tears
Sideboard:
2 Engineered E.
2 Deathmark
2 Spellskite
1 Batterskull
2 Spell Pierce (not so sure about that one, more Deathmarks may be better?)
2 Grafdigger's
2 Hurkyl's
2 Damnation
@antherion. I actually really like this list. You can tell that you have been slowly sculpting and pefecting it for your meta. How do you like gftt in the main? Do you just accept that you may look to affinity game 1 since we will most likely lose to affinity game 1 anyhow? I like this list more than most lists I've seen on here. If you have the extra time and would like to discuss some sideboarding option I would appreciate it. I think I will try this list. Thanx.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
@antherion. I actually really like this list. You can tell that you have been slowly sculpting and pefecting it for your meta. How do you like gftt in the main? Do you just accept that you may look to affinity game 1 since we will most likely lose to affinity game 1 anyhow? I like this list more than most lists I've seen on here. If you have the extra time and would like to discuss some sideboarding option I would appreciate it. I think I will try this list. Thanx.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Watery Grave
3 Darkslick Shores
4 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Mutavault
4 River of Tears
4 Secluded Glen
5 Island
Creatures:
1 Snapcaster Mage
3 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Mistbind Clique
4 Vendilion Clique
1 Peppersmoke
2 Dismember
3 Remand
4 Cryptic Command
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Serum Visions
3 Thoughtseize
3 Time Warp
Enchantments:
4 Bitterblossom
1 Spellstutter Sprite
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Smother
1 Doom Blade
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Mana Leak
3 Sower of Temptation
1 Spell Snare
2 Hibernation
1 Memoricide
Furthermore, I have completely cut Mistbind Clique and not regretted it once. This card is just too vulnerable and narrow, plus it's just bad as a topdeck if you don't have any other faeries. Usually, Mistbind Clique catches a killspell right after resolving or provokes your opponent to flash a chord of calling, restoration angel, splinter twin etc.
As for Liliana: i'm still not convinced at all. In my testings she seemed far too clunky at 3 mana sorcery speed. We mustn't forget Fae is a draw- go deck.
What are you running as a replacement for Mistbind Clique?
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
My Meta is FAR FAR too full of control + affinity to try and run that many time warps
@ Anthreion
-If you're in a position where you topdeck a mistbind with no faeries in play, I think you already lost the game. That means no BB, no spellstutter, no vendilion, no tokens and no mutavault. If thats your situation, the ONLY decent topdecks you could pull would be a sword with 9 mana on board (5 for sword + tarpit + 3 for tarpit activation) or a cryptic.
-If you're a fan of swords, I would imagine you should be a fan of mistbind. Having the 5th land + sword in hand, and on opponents turning casting the mistbind goes only a few ways (considering you can champion without fear of removal of your board) :
You champion and theyre tapped out, free to play sword.
You champion and they path/combust the mistbind and then are tapped out, free to play sword.
They counter leak your mistbind, lay their 5th/6th land and possibly have more counter/kill for sword + equip... this sucks.
They counter your mistbind without another counter in hand, possible to play/equip sword (could be unknown hand).
They counter your mistbind and play a blocker for your sword wielder.
There are of course more situations if you want to expand them all, but mistbind on opponents upkeep followed by sword almost always wins games. The later the games get, the most chances you have of successfully pulling this off :
Thoughtseize/IoK to know if its clear
Counter Backup to mistbind
Removal for potential blockers
On a side note(ish), this is what Im considering moving towards for M15 : (I havent had a ton of testing but let me know what you think everyone)
3 Damnation
4 Bitterblossom
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Military Intelligence
3 Thoughtseize
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
Instant-Flash
4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Mistbind Clique
3 Vendilion Clique
3 Cryptic Command
3 Remand
2 Spell Snare
2 Creeping Tar Pit
4 River of Tears
3 Secluded Glen
4 Watery Grave
4 Mutavault
1 Swamp
2 Tectonic Edge
5 Island
2 Spellskite
2 Spreading Seas
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Spell Snare
3 Mana Leak
2 Hibernation
3 Extirpate
Im not sold on the sideboard, there probably things that are better than extirpate for example. Spreading Seas seems like a must vs Tron in addition to the 2 tec edge in the main. I like to be able to side into a more controlling shell when necessary which is where the mana leaks and spell snare come in big time. I think a couple of spot removal spells might be better suited for the sideboard in addition to the countermagic. If damnation is blown in game 1 people are less likely to over-extend into it
I want to try damnation if I am running Liliana. The hope is that liliana + bitterblossom will force creature based decks to over-commit, and non-creature based decks just roll over to it. Sword of light and shadow is to help offset the watery grave/thoughtseize/BB painful base, as well if we are using damnation then its more likely (even against removal light decks that are creature heavy) that we will have target to return. The creatures we can get back with an active light/shadow is probably better than any other deck can boast... its a counter, its a 'discard', its a tap your lands, it can be exactly what we need every time.
I am slightly concerned with a few matchups without any instant speed removal. Between Mistbind, Cryptic, Spellstutter, and Vendillion I am hoping that scapeshift and twin cant go off. Tron is probably still a bad pre-board matchup but hopefully gets better post-board (might need a few more cards for it).
Thirst for Knowledge % to hit artifact
This list seems like it has really bad Combo matchups.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Yes I made specific mention of that. The deck still has Vendilion Clique(x3), Mistbind Clique(x3), Thoughtseize(x3), Cryptic Command(x3), and Remand(x3) as its only direct out to combos(occasionally SSS(x4) or Liliana(x3) can do these things too). Liliana helps as backup for that, and against the combos that exist in modern right now that is typically enough to buy 1 round and then damnation, scapeshift seems like the worst of the combo matchups. So the deck still has a potential for 22 combo piece break-ups, which is 1/3 of the deck.
damnation (after buying 1 round from those mentioned above) stops :
RWU combo
Twin
Pod (in some situations)
Damnation will not stop :
Tron
Scapeshift
Thirst for Knowledge % to hit artifact
That is a really cool list. Obviously a lot of cards were meta calls, but I'm just glad to see a true fae list putting up results :')
Thanks for finding this list! Mistbind Clique into Time Warp seems brilliant. It's what Sword of Feast and Fammine is trying to accomplish, but better. The singleton Serum Visions seems a bit odd, but it sort of makes sense over the 5th Thoughtseize effect. The Snapcaster Suite here is particularly strong I think, and Serum Visions helps in that regard. I love the Peppersmoke. I've been experimenting with it extensively, since in the old days Peppersmoke was often a brilliant removal card in Faeries. I'm curious about what this meta looked like to justify Peppersmoke main.
Other interesting things are the 26 lands and the 3 remands. I've wafted from 25 to 27 lands depending on my build, and while the consensus on this thread appears to be 25, I keep wanting to go higher to not lose turn 4 when I can't play Mistbind Clique or Cryptic Command. It does seem that 25 is too low if you want to bring Wurmcoil Engine out of the sideboard. All in all I really like the look of this list and want to try it myself.
Either way I love the deck and congrats.
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
I took them out in favour of a fourth cryptic and two snapcasters. I can postthe list if anyone is interested. So far, i've been really happy with the change.
If you could post the list it would be much appreciated.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I would be intrested to see your decklist.
3 IoK
2 Thoughtseize
---
2 Spell Snare
3 Mana Leak (4 might be an option, but I don't know what to cut)
4 Cryptic Command
---
1 Disfigure (Surprisingly useful ad a 1-of)
2 Smother
2 GftT
---
4 Bitterblossom
---
2 Sword of Feast and F.
---
4 Spellstutter
2 Snapcaster
3 Vendilion
---
4 Mutavault
4 Creeping T. P.
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Island
2 Ghost Quarter (better than T. Edge, trust me)
4 Watery Grave (Glen is no good with only 11 Faeries)
4 River of Tears
Sideboard:
2 Engineered E.
2 Deathmark
2 Spellskite
1 Batterskull
2 Spell Pierce (not so sure about that one, more Deathmarks may be better?)
2 Grafdigger's
2 Hurkyl's
2 Damnation
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Why do you prefer Quarter over Edge?
I'm not sure, but I'm guessing that it is easier to cast command with quarter.
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver