I see no fraction of value for the card, even if you dont intend to splash red. I am completely okay with not using the other half of the card here in UB faeries
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Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
I see no fraction of value for the card, even if you dont intend to splash red. I am completely okay with not using the other half of the card here in UB faeries
I was thinking that we have to look at this card as replacing another card. We know it can't be cast until T3 if we can't use the BR half. Our scenario might be to cast it EOT of opponent. But there must be a creature card in a grave right? So we must have cast on T2 some spot removal, or lost something of our own on T2. I think this makes it a later cast than T3: more like T5-8. Might it not be better to have an earlier cast, like Vapor Snag?
After my recent rant, I have now figured out that discussing the deck with a bunch of blockheads is still better than having nobody to talk about it whatsoever.
Therefore, I would like to share some more experiences with my dear fellow Faeries pilots.
First, I take back everything negative I ever said about Snapcaster. My testings on Cockatrice and also with friends have made it clear to me that Tiago is likely to be the best top-deck card for our deck. The synergy with Cryptic Command is certainly overwhelming, and he can also be played aggressively, recycling a discard spell.
Snappy is the main reason why I have gone down to three Commands and 5 Discard Spells. However, I just can't bring myself to play a fifth Removal. Instead, I have found myself playing a singleton Sword of Fire and Ice (yes, me, a former Sword hater!).
After all, the deck is more tempo than what I surmised for a long time. I have also declined my land count to 25 for that reason, but I'm not yet sure whether 2 or 3 Tar Pits will be the number to go. (And i need to know as I'm attending a big tournament this weekend!)
You might find that the fifth removal spell is unnecessary with snapcaster, but a lot of our plays are mana-tight in nature, so I'm guessing that when you are in environments with a lot more pressure the fidlfth removal spell will seem handy, either way, I'm on 5 removal myself and almost feel like I want more in some situations. Which is why I SB my lilianas in this current build. I've tried to move toward more fluid decision planning and in a moderately creature influenced format I'm never really upset to see them. Do you find that your situation shows otherwise?
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Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
So, being the eccentric card evaluation guy that I am most times, I wanted to touch base on an old card I had briefly talked about before. What do you all think of playing with rise // fall? I see the card providing tempo in mid game and recursion in the late game. Not to mention the turn where you bounce a problematic creature to the opponent's hand and return a spell stutter sprite or vendilion clique to counter said card or remove it from their hand. I'm mainly thinking that the versatility of the card adds to a situation where we are being outnumbered by creatures mainly, but this does give us options. If I come across any I will be testing them, but I think there is something I am overlooking
While Rise // Fall is a nice card, it unfortunately requires you to always target something in the graveyard, meaning that if none of your creatures are dead you cannot use it profitably to bounce an opponent's creature.
Also, no one had anything to say about my suggestion of Mystical Teachings as a 1-of?
First, I take back everything negative I ever said about Snapcaster. My testings on Cockatrice and also with friends have made it clear to me that Tiago is likely to be the best top-deck card for our deck. The synergy with Cryptic Command is certainly overwhelming, and he can also be played aggressively, recycling a discard spell.
Snappy is the main reason why I have gone down to three Commands and 5 Discard Spells. However, I just can't bring myself to play a fifth Removal. Instead, I have found myself playing a singleton Sword of Fire and Ice (yes, me, a former Sword hater!).
After all, the deck is more tempo than what I surmised for a long time. I have also declined my land count to 25 for that reason, but I'm not yet sure whether 2 or 3 Tar Pits will be the number to go. (And i need to know as I'm attending a big tournament this weekend!)
There was a certain point were I used to overcommit on discard-snapcaster discard. After a lot of games I found out that there are very few occasions where this is actually useful. You need to be sure you are going to take something game breaking otherwise you lose some value on your counters/removals. We could discuss some specifics if you want.
I don't really mind going down to 3 cryptic commands depending on how many mana leaks/spell snares you run. And yeah, snapcaster cryptic is the dream basically. it is just way too much value
On the sword discussion I still prefer SoFaF or SoLaS because they have inherent synergy with the deck.
On the creeping tar pit part, I would say if you go 26 lands then 3 tar pits, if you go 24 then 2 tar pits. If you go 25 if you have 2 tec edges then 2 tar pits, 1 tec edge 3 tar pits depending on what you expect on the meta.
After my recent rant, I have now figured out that discussing the deck with a bunch of blockheads is still better than having nobody to talk about it whatsoever.
Therefore, I would like to share some more experiences with my dear fellow Faeries pilots.
First, I take back everything negative I ever said about Snapcaster. My testings on Cockatrice and also with friends have made it clear to me that Tiago is likely to be the best top-deck card for our deck. The synergy with Cryptic Command is certainly overwhelming, and he can also be played aggressively, recycling a discard spell.
Snappy is the main reason why I have gone down to three Commands and 5 Discard Spells. However, I just can't bring myself to play a fifth Removal. Instead, I have found myself playing a singleton Sword of Fire and Ice (yes, me, a former Sword hater!).
After all, the deck is more tempo than what I surmised for a long time. I have also declined my land count to 25 for that reason, but I'm not yet sure whether 2 or 3 Tar Pits will be the number to go. (And i need to know as I'm attending a big tournament this weekend!)
We're blockheads, but you love us. Land count 25 seems to be proving itself right. I suggest our choice is 3x Tar Pit + 1x Tec Edge OR 2x Tar Pit + 2x Tec Edge. This decision is informed by whether we go with SoFaF or SoFaI. With SoFaF, we can swing profitably with Tar Pit more frequently: making 3x Pit right. Without SoFaF, we cannot, making IMO 2 + 2 right. As an alternative, I've been experimenting with 1x Tec Edge + 1x Cavern instead of the 2x Tec Edge. I think doing that depends on if we have at least one other answer to obnoxious lands in our SB. Maindecking at least one Tec Edge is right IMO.
I'm not yet a believer in Taigo. I think the mana cost and value of a dude is marginal over just drawing and casting the extra discard/removal. I've yet to be in position to play Taigo into CC, where I wasn't winning already.
Are you guys all sold on playing land destruction? It strikes me that it will only slightly slow down Tron. The only land I find really worth destroying is Bosejiu in Ad Nauseam decks and sometimes also Cavern of Souls.
I'm currently testing a fifth removal over my singleton Sword of Fire and Ice, namely Disfigure. I know many players have deemed it inferior to Dismember and such, however, I felt like a 1-mana-removal can be crucial when battling certain strategies. Disfigure has also a wider range than Slip, which I also tried, but didn't like at all. Disfigure might be bad against Zoo, but it has something to hit in most other decks: Dorks, Bobs, Merfolk Lords, Electromancers, Snappies, Vendilions, Goblin Guides...
As for the guy who doesn't like Tiago: I too was sceptical at first, but many testings have convinced me that two Snappies are the way to go. He offers great card advantage, something our deck seems to rather lack in general. In addition, he becomes even better post-sideboard when he can snap spells like Hurkyl's or Deathmark against Zoo, one of our worst MUs.
My general feeling about Swords right now is: They can be great against Combo and Control, however, they seem underwhelming against Aggro decks. Since Combo and Control are amongst our good MUs anyway, I would suggest improving our defence against Aggro furthermore instead of going Aggro ourselves. Zook and the like will always be faster than us, no matter how many Scions or Swords we play. We can grind them, though, and win in the lategame, where our deck should be superior. If your meta is very control- or combo-heavy, then I guess playing Swords does make sense.
So, being the eccentric card evaluation guy that I am most times, I wanted to touch base on an old card I had briefly talked about before. What do you all think of playing with rise // fall? I see the card providing tempo in mid game and recursion in the late game. Not to mention the turn where you bounce a problematic creature to the opponent's hand and return a spell stutter sprite or vendilion clique to counter said card or remove it from their hand. I'm mainly thinking that the versatility of the card adds to a situation where we are being outnumbered by creatures mainly, but this does give us options. If I come across any I will be testing them, but I think there is something I am overlooking
While Rise // Fall is a nice card, it unfortunately requires you to always target something in the graveyard, meaning that if none of your creatures are dead you cannot use it profitably to bounce an opponent's creature.
Also, no one had anything to say about my suggestion of Mystical Teachings as a 1-of?
If Mystical Teachings were to cost less, I could see myself playing it. As things are, I considet Mistbind and Cryptic to be morenimportant, and I want to keep my curve as low as possible, playing only as much as 6 4-mana spells. If anything, I would opt for Forbidden Alchemy, which obviously makes sense with Snappy only.
Are you guys all sold on playing land destruction? It strikes me that it will only slightly slow down Tron. The only land I find really worth destroying is Bosejiu in Ad Nauseam decks and sometimes also Cavern of Souls.
I'm currently testing a fifth removal over my singleton Sword of Fire and Ice, namely Disfigure. I know many players have deemed it inferior to Dismember and such, however, I felt like a 1-mana-removal can be crucial when battling certain strategies. Disfigure has also a wider range than Slip, which I also tried, but didn't like at all. Disfigure might be bad against Zoo, but it has something to hit in most other decks: Dorks, Bobs, Merfolk Lords, Electromancers, Snappies, Vendilions, Goblin Guides...
As for the guy who doesn't like Tiago: I too was sceptical at first, but many testings have convinced me that two Snappies are the way to go. He offers great card advantage, something our deck seems to rather lack in general. In addition, he becomes even better post-sideboard when he can snap spells like Hurkyl's or Deathmark against Zoo, one of our worst MUs.
My general feeling about Swords right now is: They can be great against Combo and Control, however, they seem underwhelming against Aggro decks. Since Combo and Control are amongst our good MUs anyway, I would suggest improving our defence against Aggro furthermore instead of going Aggro ourselves. Zook and the like will always be faster than us, no matter how many Scions or Swords we play. We can grind them, though, and win in the lategame, where our deck should be superior. If your meta is very control- or combo-heavy, then I guess playing Swords does make sense.
I agree about the land destruction. In most cases (though the deck that I made was an exception to this), Faeries won't ever beat Tron, so it is unnecessary.
So, being the eccentric card evaluation guy that I am most times, I wanted to touch base on an old card I had briefly talked about before. What do you all think of playing with rise // fall? I see the card providing tempo in mid game and recursion in the late game. Not to mention the turn where you bounce a problematic creature to the opponent's hand and return a spell stutter sprite or vendilion clique to counter said card or remove it from their hand. I'm mainly thinking that the versatility of the card adds to a situation where we are being outnumbered by creatures mainly, but this does give us options. If I come across any I will be testing them, but I think there is something I am overlooking
While Rise // Fall is a nice card, it unfortunately requires you to always target something in the graveyard, meaning that if none of your creatures are dead you cannot use it profitably to bounce an opponent's creature.
Also, no one had anything to say about my suggestion of Mystical Teachings as a 1-of?
If Mystical Teachings were to cost less, I could see myself playing it. As things are, I considet Mistbind and Cryptic to be morenimportant, and I want to keep my curve as low as possible, playing only as much as 6 4-mana spells. If anything, I would opt for Forbidden Alchemy, which obviously makes sense with Snappy only.
P.S: Sorry for double-post...
While I agree, some people were complaining about having 4 Mistbind Cliques, so I was thinking that having an instant-speed tutor for Mistbind Clique that can also be a V-Clique or a Cryptic Command, tutor for Hibernation and Hurkyl's Recall after sideboarding, and be flashbacked for card advantage would be nice.
Why should we be unable to defeat Tron? I have faced numerous Tron players already (both versions) and the matches were kind of balanced most of the time. Sure, an unanswered Wurmcoil means our death, but there are plenty of ways to prevent thwm from resolving it (Leak, Thoughtseize, Vendilion, Mistbind, Cryptic and sometimes even SSS. It's probably true we can't withstand their god hand, but seriously: How often are they going to accumulate turn three Tron without us having any disruption whatsoever?
As for Mystical Teachings, I see your point better now. However, I personally like my deck to be nothing but disruption at all (and lands of course)... Still, I'm intrigued to hear how MT will work out for you.
Honestly if wizards had made mystical tutor able to search for blue cards that can be played at instant speed is be playing that right now, but 4-mana on teachings is a thing. I was testing that a bit before bitter blossom got unbanned because pre-unbanning fae needed a hinge, but it is really slow and I'd always rather have the 4th cryptic it replaced.
Taking my personal play style and faeries issues into consideration, the timing restriction on rise // fall was an issue, as it was suggested it would be; I didn't have creatures in the grave often enough to produce a benefit in any of the creature matchups I played it against like merfolk and pod, but those matchups specifically have means to invalidate the card
Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
Honestly if wizards had made mystical tutor able to search for blue cards that can be played at instant speed is be playing that right now, but 4-mana on teachings is a thing. I was testing that a bit before bitter blossom got unbanned because pre-unbanning fae needed a hinge, but it is really slow and I'd always rather have the 4th cryptic it replaced
What if it replaced the 4th Misbind instead of the 4th Cryptic?
I honestly couldn't answer that, as I have only played 3 mist bind clique in modern faeries, as it requires a bit more effort than I'd be willing to supply under pressure
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Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
So, I've been taking the time to build and test most of the deck lists in this thread. And I've got to be honest, Scion of Oona is just too good to NOT have a playset mained.
I've also found that in most cases of spot removal, I'd rather them be a counter. So I cut the two verdicts that I run in my own deck and tossed in 2 leaks. Now, it's a force to be reckoned with. Especially when my opponent goes first and I have a Spell Snare and Remand in my opening hand.
Snapcasters were kinda fun, but only useful enough for me to want to play him when a Cryptic command was in my graveyard. Scion of Oona helps out a lot more, regardless.
Sword of Feast and Famine worked pretty well, but I've yet to decide what I want to cut in my main to add one or two.
Very interesting. Someone who went the Scion route with no V. Cliques in the main and only 1 in the side got second recently. That is EXTREMELY surprising to me.
I've been trying to tell you for a while now.
I don't run V. clique, I DO run Scion, and I do just fine in all my matchups.
Are you guys all sold on playing land destruction? It strikes me that it will only slightly slow down Tron. The only land I find really worth destroying is Bosejiu in Ad Nauseam decks and sometimes also Cavern of Souls.
Colonnade. Ravine. Township. Running a singleton Tec Edge in main has great enough utility to be better than other options in that slot. Sometimes it can be used to screw a 3-colour deck.
I'm currently testing a fifth removal over my singleton Sword of Fire and Ice, namely Disfigure. I know many players have deemed it inferior to Dismember and such, however, I felt like a 1-mana-removal can be crucial when battling certain strategies. Disfigure has also a wider range than Slip, which I also tried, but didn't like at all. Disfigure might be bad against Zoo, but it has something to hit in most other decks: Dorks, Bobs, Merfolk Lords, Electromancers, Snappies, Vendilions, Goblin Guides...
I'm inclining toward Disfigure, too. Slip has been useful, but I've so far never used the morbid ability. And I've noticed that much of the time I am fine to cast it in my own turn.
As for the guy who doesn't like Tiago: I too was sceptical at first, but many testings have convinced me that two Snappies are the way to go. He offers great card advantage, something our deck seems to rather lack in general. In addition, he becomes even better post-sideboard when he can snap spells like Hurkyl's or Deathmark against Zoo, one of our worst MUs.
I'll try him again then. I found that a lot of our 1cmc action is sorcery speed. He is at his peak with cheap instants. Using him to flashback a counterspell is a 4cmc proposition, usually.
My general feeling about Swords right now is: They can be great against Combo and Control, however, they seem underwhelming against Aggro decks. Since Combo and Control are amongst our good MUs anyway, I would suggest improving our defence against Aggro furthermore instead of going Aggro ourselves. Zook and the like will always be faster than us, no matter how many Scions or Swords we play. We can grind them, though, and win in the lategame, where our deck should be superior. If your meta is very control- or combo-heavy, then I guess playing Swords does make sense.
At present - with SoFaF and Liliana - I only struggle against Zoo. The other aggro decks are favourable. I think it's the five spot removal, two snares, and everything flashing/flying that carries it off. Zoo has that annoying elephant, and good sideboard options.
Originally pegged him on Jund, but red was a splash for Ancient Grudge out of the board. Game 1 was uneventful. Turn 1 Thoughtseize, turn 2 Blossom with counters and Mistbind in hand. Opponent landed Bob into Courser and started to go plus off of the two, with Lili, Tarmo and Scooze as well as lands getting drawn, but he never touches my life total and I end the game at a healthy spot.
Game 2 he mulls to six, I rip a Thrun from his hand seeing a Slaughter Pact, second Thrun, and Abrupt Decay. Evenetually slams a Thrun while I have 2 Sowers in hand. Use one to bait the Pact, use second one to keep the Tarmo, but he slams double Obliterator after that and I only have 1 Dismember.
Game 3 he mulligans and I destroy his hand with multiple discards. Game is over when I have the Leak for his Lili on turn 3.
Round 2 - UWR Control
Game 1 I mull to 5, keep a no-black 2 lander with a Blossom and 2 Spellstutters. Proceed to never see another land.
Game 2 I mull to 4, keep a 2 lander, never see another land. Hard to beat even the best matchup when you can't cast spells.
Round 3 - Scapeshift
Game 1 we both mull to 6. I get stuck at 3 lands with a grip of 2 Cryptics and a Mistbind, he curves perfectly and Scapeshifts me blindly.
Game 2 I mull to 5, but ride a blossom and 3 Spellstutters to victory since my opponent doesn't realize Izzet Charm won't counter Spellstutter.
Game 3 mull to 5 again, opponent has a hand of triple Obstinate Baloth. Actually deal with all 3 Baloths, have him to 7 with lethal on board, and he topdecks the Scapeshift.
Dropped at this point feeling disgusted, since I lost to two very good matchups due to my deck deciding to be a *****. Go get food and decide to appease the deck by resleeving it with new sleeves (sidenote, turqouise dragon shields are insanely good, and this is coming from someone who hated the old style dragon shields). Resleeve the same 75 and enter the GPT/Super IQ side event.
Round 1 - KCI Eggs
Game 1 - Turn 1 Thoughtseize, turn 2 Bitterblossom with Spellstutter and Spell Snare backup. Opponent would've had an OK hand but Thougthtseize crushes his deck. Also played and equipped a Sword on turn 5 and it proceeded to ruin his day even more.
Game 2 - Turn 1 Thoughseize, turn 2 Mana Leak, turn 3 Snapcaster for Thoughtseize, turn 5 Sword of Feast and Famine. Literally hell for him.
Overall wasn't something I expected, but it's another combo deck that can't stand up well to hand disruption. Opponent wound up finishing the day x-1 barely missing top 8, which goes to show it isn't a terrible deck.
Round 2 - Kiki Control
Game 1 - opponent had never played against Faeries, but found out quickly he doesn't like Bitterblossom or Spellstutter Sprite. he never lands a relevant threat but spends the early game throwing Bolts and Helixes at my face. He eventually folds under the pressure of Blossom and counters, pretty typical of how the matchup plays out.
Game 2 - He starts the game with a Leyline of Sanctity in play, while I have a godhand of Thoughtseize, Blossom, and double V Clique. Eventually Clique myself to throw back Thoughtseize, while maintaining pressure off of Blossom. He eventually paths the Clique, and after shuffling I get another Thoughtseize. Which is promptly Clique'd away as well. Eventually suit up a token with a sword and go to town on him, he once again never lands a relevant creature and I kill his Colennade when he starts trying to block with it.
Round 3 - Scapeshift
Game 1 - He mulls to 6 and I have Inquisition/Thoughtseize for the first two turns, but his hand is literally 4 2 mana ramp spells. He gets to 7 pretty quickly and into topdecking mode, but I eventually drop a Mistbind and get in for beats while sitting on Cryptic and Spell Snare backup.
Game 2 - I have a great early lead, he has nothing relevant in hand, so I tap 3 mana when I have 6 to land a Jace and say go with Cryptic in hand. Opponent draws and plays an Inferno Titan. Oops. Stare at the Deathmark in my hand and feel silly. Scoop it up next turn.
Game 3 - Hand disruption and Speading Seas gets there. He has Inferno Titan but I Spreading Seas'd an early red source and he can't cast it for awhile. Thougthseize meanwhile rips a Wurmcoil from his hand (?!) and when he tries to eventually play the Titan I have the counters.
Round 4 - UWR Control
Game 1 - Long game where he gets a good mana curve and I spend the game 4/5 mana down. I misplay early knowing he has the Spell Snare and playing Blossom with Spellstutter backup, turns out he has 2 Spell Snares. He double Tec Edges at one point, but I stabilize at one life by bouncing my Bitterblossom with a Cryptic and going to town with Mistbind. He has no card in hand and....topdecks the Electrolyze when I can only counter for 2 with a Spellstutter. Sigh.
Game 2 - 40 minute game where we both draw 15+ lands. He draws all his Colennades, while I don't see a Blossom or a Creeping Tar Pit for the entire game. Eventually a combination of Vendilion Clique and Mutavault get there.
Game 3 - We go to turns, but I spend the entire game in control, at one point starting to swing with 4 Mutavaults (this is on turn 10). He draws enough kill spells to answer them, but he never touches my life total, I have him to 8, and would've gotten to play a Bitterblossom into a tapped out board with him having only counters in hand. With time it's an easy win, but unfortunately becomes a draw.
Round 5 - Burn Zoo
Game 1 - Had seen the opponent play turn 1 Nacatl the round before, but was a bit confused when he went t1 Goblin Guide, t2 Boros Charm your face, t3 suspend Rift Bolt and play Hellspark Elemental. Turns out he was playing Small Zoo but very burn-oriented. I get out an early Bitterblossom to start chumping out the Guide and Hellspark. Eventually he taps out to play spells pre-combat, and I flash in a Mistbind to eat his Wild Nicatl and stabalize at three. he plays A hellspark, I counter it, he unearths it, trampling over to take me down to 1. I swing, put him to 7 and pass with his only card being a land. Upkeep tap him out with another mistbind, he draws and it's a burnspell he can't cast.
Game 2 - He mulligans and I have everything I need. Early spellstutters take care of his burn and I start beating him down after landing a t3 Blossom with Spell Snare backup for his burn spells. End the game with a hand full of removal.
Round 6 - Affinity
We ID as I'm currently first seed and top 6 are all locks. My UWR opponent gets paired against the Burn Zoo player and forces them to play (was kind of a ****** all day, so wasn't surprising).
End standings as second seed, with the Burn Zoo player getting first from having been forced to play. Top 8 consists of 2 Affinity, 1 Zoo, 1 Tron, 1 UWR control, 1 Scapeshift, 1 Tarmo Twin, and myself. 3 of them were people I had played and beaten/drawn with. I get paired against the Tron player.
Quarters
Game 1 - I demolish his hand early. He is left with a pair of Relics and a Sphere, and since he has a relic out, I EOT a Snapcaster with no targets, then next turn play and equip a SoFaF and swing. next turn....second SoFaF. He gets down to 0 cards in hand. Ends up getting Eye and playing a Wurmcoil, I cryptic it. Drop him to 2, say go. He EoTs Eye for Emrakul, then realizes he only has 12 mana. I have 6 lands, 1 being a Tar Pit and 1 a Mutavault, as well as two swords out ( he had played an All is Dust to kill just a Snapcaster.) He draws and it's his only Ghost Quarter in the deck, giving him his 13th mana so he can cast Emrakul AND has it to kill my Mutavault. Must be nice, right?
Game 2 - He mulls to 6 and I destroy his opening hand with Iok/Thoughtseize/Thoughtseize. Doesn't matter though, because in true Tron player fashion he goes, in order, 3rd Tron land, Wurmcoil, Karn off the top of his deck like a champ. I scoop it up in a bit of salty disgust. I know it isn't his fault, but still felt like utter bull*****.
Overall record for the day: 6-2-2, one draw being an ID and one a game I would've won if not in time. List was fine, didn't really dislike anything in it. Negates/Glen Elendras would've been nice once or twice during the day, but overall every card except the Hurkyl's were used. Spreading Seas got sided in the most. MVP in the maindeck was Dismember.
Figured I would give you all a short tournament report. PTQ in the area yesterday... Overall record for the day: 6-2-2, one draw being an ID and one a game I would've won if not in time. List was fine, didn't really dislike anything in it. Negates/Glen Elendras would've been nice once or twice during the day, but overall every card except the Hurkyl's were used. Spreading Seas got sided in the most. MVP in the maindeck was Dismember.
Thank you for the report. Spreading Seas + Sower is decent against Tron, but it is a difficult MU for control even when they don't draw serendipitously. I see you play 3x Dismember. My spot removal is 2x Tragic Slip, 2x Go for the Throat, and 1x Dismember. I've been thinking of either cutting one Tragic Slip for another Dismember. Or perhaps a Slaughter Pact. Were there any times that you couldn't cast Dismember due to your life total?
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UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
I was thinking that we have to look at this card as replacing another card. We know it can't be cast until T3 if we can't use the BR half. Our scenario might be to cast it EOT of opponent. But there must be a creature card in a grave right? So we must have cast on T2 some spot removal, or lost something of our own on T2. I think this makes it a later cast than T3: more like T5-8. Might it not be better to have an earlier cast, like Vapor Snag?
Therefore, I would like to share some more experiences with my dear fellow Faeries pilots.
First, I take back everything negative I ever said about Snapcaster. My testings on Cockatrice and also with friends have made it clear to me that Tiago is likely to be the best top-deck card for our deck. The synergy with Cryptic Command is certainly overwhelming, and he can also be played aggressively, recycling a discard spell.
Snappy is the main reason why I have gone down to three Commands and 5 Discard Spells. However, I just can't bring myself to play a fifth Removal. Instead, I have found myself playing a singleton Sword of Fire and Ice (yes, me, a former Sword hater!).
After all, the deck is more tempo than what I surmised for a long time. I have also declined my land count to 25 for that reason, but I'm not yet sure whether 2 or 3 Tar Pits will be the number to go. (And i need to know as I'm attending a big tournament this weekend!)
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
While Rise // Fall is a nice card, it unfortunately requires you to always target something in the graveyard, meaning that if none of your creatures are dead you cannot use it profitably to bounce an opponent's creature.
Also, no one had anything to say about my suggestion of Mystical Teachings as a 1-of?
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I don't really mind going down to 3 cryptic commands depending on how many mana leaks/spell snares you run. And yeah, snapcaster cryptic is the dream basically. it is just way too much value
On the sword discussion I still prefer SoFaF or SoLaS because they have inherent synergy with the deck.
On the creeping tar pit part, I would say if you go 26 lands then 3 tar pits, if you go 24 then 2 tar pits. If you go 25 if you have 2 tec edges then 2 tar pits, 1 tec edge 3 tar pits depending on what you expect on the meta.
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
We're blockheads, but you love us. Land count 25 seems to be proving itself right. I suggest our choice is 3x Tar Pit + 1x Tec Edge OR 2x Tar Pit + 2x Tec Edge. This decision is informed by whether we go with SoFaF or SoFaI. With SoFaF, we can swing profitably with Tar Pit more frequently: making 3x Pit right. Without SoFaF, we cannot, making IMO 2 + 2 right. As an alternative, I've been experimenting with 1x Tec Edge + 1x Cavern instead of the 2x Tec Edge. I think doing that depends on if we have at least one other answer to obnoxious lands in our SB. Maindecking at least one Tec Edge is right IMO.
I'm not yet a believer in Taigo. I think the mana cost and value of a dude is marginal over just drawing and casting the extra discard/removal. I've yet to be in position to play Taigo into CC, where I wasn't winning already.
I'm currently testing a fifth removal over my singleton Sword of Fire and Ice, namely Disfigure. I know many players have deemed it inferior to Dismember and such, however, I felt like a 1-mana-removal can be crucial when battling certain strategies. Disfigure has also a wider range than Slip, which I also tried, but didn't like at all. Disfigure might be bad against Zoo, but it has something to hit in most other decks: Dorks, Bobs, Merfolk Lords, Electromancers, Snappies, Vendilions, Goblin Guides...
As for the guy who doesn't like Tiago: I too was sceptical at first, but many testings have convinced me that two Snappies are the way to go. He offers great card advantage, something our deck seems to rather lack in general. In addition, he becomes even better post-sideboard when he can snap spells like Hurkyl's or Deathmark against Zoo, one of our worst MUs.
My general feeling about Swords right now is: They can be great against Combo and Control, however, they seem underwhelming against Aggro decks. Since Combo and Control are amongst our good MUs anyway, I would suggest improving our defence against Aggro furthermore instead of going Aggro ourselves. Zook and the like will always be faster than us, no matter how many Scions or Swords we play. We can grind them, though, and win in the lategame, where our deck should be superior. If your meta is very control- or combo-heavy, then I guess playing Swords does make sense.
If Mystical Teachings were to cost less, I could see myself playing it. As things are, I considet Mistbind and Cryptic to be morenimportant, and I want to keep my curve as low as possible, playing only as much as 6 4-mana spells. If anything, I would opt for Forbidden Alchemy, which obviously makes sense with Snappy only.
P.S: Sorry for double-post...
I agree about the land destruction. In most cases (though the deck that I made was an exception to this), Faeries won't ever beat Tron, so it is unnecessary.
While I agree, some people were complaining about having 4 Mistbind Cliques, so I was thinking that having an instant-speed tutor for Mistbind Clique that can also be a V-Clique or a Cryptic Command, tutor for Hibernation and Hurkyl's Recall after sideboarding, and be flashbacked for card advantage would be nice.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
As for Mystical Teachings, I see your point better now. However, I personally like my deck to be nothing but disruption at all (and lands of course)... Still, I'm intrigued to hear how MT will work out for you.
Taking my personal play style and faeries issues into consideration, the timing restriction on rise // fall was an issue, as it was suggested it would be; I didn't have creatures in the grave often enough to produce a benefit in any of the creature matchups I played it against like merfolk and pod, but those matchups specifically have means to invalidate the card
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
What if it replaced the 4th Misbind instead of the 4th Cryptic?
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
I've also found that in most cases of spot removal, I'd rather them be a counter. So I cut the two verdicts that I run in my own deck and tossed in 2 leaks. Now, it's a force to be reckoned with. Especially when my opponent goes first and I have a Spell Snare and Remand in my opening hand.
Snapcasters were kinda fun, but only useful enough for me to want to play him when a Cryptic command was in my graveyard. Scion of Oona helps out a lot more, regardless.
Sword of Feast and Famine worked pretty well, but I've yet to decide what I want to cut in my main to add one or two.
I've been trying to tell you for a while now.
I don't run V. clique, I DO run Scion, and I do just fine in all my matchups.
Colonnade. Ravine. Township. Running a singleton Tec Edge in main has great enough utility to be better than other options in that slot. Sometimes it can be used to screw a 3-colour deck.
I'm inclining toward Disfigure, too. Slip has been useful, but I've so far never used the morbid ability. And I've noticed that much of the time I am fine to cast it in my own turn.
I'll try him again then. I found that a lot of our 1cmc action is sorcery speed. He is at his peak with cheap instants. Using him to flashback a counterspell is a 4cmc proposition, usually.
At present - with SoFaF and Liliana - I only struggle against Zoo. The other aggro decks are favourable. I think it's the five spot removal, two snares, and everything flashing/flying that carries it off. Zoo has that annoying elephant, and good sideboard options.
4 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Mistbind Clique
4 Bitterblossom
3 Mana Leak
2 Spell Snare
3 Cryptic Command
3 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Dismember
1 Doom Blade
1 Tragic Slip
2 Sword of Feast and Famine
4 River of Tears
4 Secluded Glen
4 Mutavault
3 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Tectonic Edge
5 Island
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Spreading Seas
2 Jace Beleren
1 Spell Snare
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Deathmark
Round 1 - Rock
Originally pegged him on Jund, but red was a splash for Ancient Grudge out of the board. Game 1 was uneventful. Turn 1 Thoughtseize, turn 2 Blossom with counters and Mistbind in hand. Opponent landed Bob into Courser and started to go plus off of the two, with Lili, Tarmo and Scooze as well as lands getting drawn, but he never touches my life total and I end the game at a healthy spot.
Game 2 he mulls to six, I rip a Thrun from his hand seeing a Slaughter Pact, second Thrun, and Abrupt Decay. Evenetually slams a Thrun while I have 2 Sowers in hand. Use one to bait the Pact, use second one to keep the Tarmo, but he slams double Obliterator after that and I only have 1 Dismember.
Game 3 he mulligans and I destroy his hand with multiple discards. Game is over when I have the Leak for his Lili on turn 3.
Round 2 - UWR Control
Game 1 I mull to 5, keep a no-black 2 lander with a Blossom and 2 Spellstutters. Proceed to never see another land.
Game 2 I mull to 4, keep a 2 lander, never see another land. Hard to beat even the best matchup when you can't cast spells.
Round 3 - Scapeshift
Game 1 we both mull to 6. I get stuck at 3 lands with a grip of 2 Cryptics and a Mistbind, he curves perfectly and Scapeshifts me blindly.
Game 2 I mull to 5, but ride a blossom and 3 Spellstutters to victory since my opponent doesn't realize Izzet Charm won't counter Spellstutter.
Game 3 mull to 5 again, opponent has a hand of triple Obstinate Baloth. Actually deal with all 3 Baloths, have him to 7 with lethal on board, and he topdecks the Scapeshift.
Dropped at this point feeling disgusted, since I lost to two very good matchups due to my deck deciding to be a *****. Go get food and decide to appease the deck by resleeving it with new sleeves (sidenote, turqouise dragon shields are insanely good, and this is coming from someone who hated the old style dragon shields). Resleeve the same 75 and enter the GPT/Super IQ side event.
Round 1 - KCI Eggs
Game 1 - Turn 1 Thoughtseize, turn 2 Bitterblossom with Spellstutter and Spell Snare backup. Opponent would've had an OK hand but Thougthtseize crushes his deck. Also played and equipped a Sword on turn 5 and it proceeded to ruin his day even more.
Game 2 - Turn 1 Thoughseize, turn 2 Mana Leak, turn 3 Snapcaster for Thoughtseize, turn 5 Sword of Feast and Famine. Literally hell for him.
Overall wasn't something I expected, but it's another combo deck that can't stand up well to hand disruption. Opponent wound up finishing the day x-1 barely missing top 8, which goes to show it isn't a terrible deck.
Round 2 - Kiki Control
Game 1 - opponent had never played against Faeries, but found out quickly he doesn't like Bitterblossom or Spellstutter Sprite. he never lands a relevant threat but spends the early game throwing Bolts and Helixes at my face. He eventually folds under the pressure of Blossom and counters, pretty typical of how the matchup plays out.
Game 2 - He starts the game with a Leyline of Sanctity in play, while I have a godhand of Thoughtseize, Blossom, and double V Clique. Eventually Clique myself to throw back Thoughtseize, while maintaining pressure off of Blossom. He eventually paths the Clique, and after shuffling I get another Thoughtseize. Which is promptly Clique'd away as well. Eventually suit up a token with a sword and go to town on him, he once again never lands a relevant creature and I kill his Colennade when he starts trying to block with it.
Round 3 - Scapeshift
Game 1 - He mulls to 6 and I have Inquisition/Thoughtseize for the first two turns, but his hand is literally 4 2 mana ramp spells. He gets to 7 pretty quickly and into topdecking mode, but I eventually drop a Mistbind and get in for beats while sitting on Cryptic and Spell Snare backup.
Game 2 - I have a great early lead, he has nothing relevant in hand, so I tap 3 mana when I have 6 to land a Jace and say go with Cryptic in hand. Opponent draws and plays an Inferno Titan. Oops. Stare at the Deathmark in my hand and feel silly. Scoop it up next turn.
Game 3 - Hand disruption and Speading Seas gets there. He has Inferno Titan but I Spreading Seas'd an early red source and he can't cast it for awhile. Thougthseize meanwhile rips a Wurmcoil from his hand (?!) and when he tries to eventually play the Titan I have the counters.
Round 4 - UWR Control
Game 1 - Long game where he gets a good mana curve and I spend the game 4/5 mana down. I misplay early knowing he has the Spell Snare and playing Blossom with Spellstutter backup, turns out he has 2 Spell Snares. He double Tec Edges at one point, but I stabilize at one life by bouncing my Bitterblossom with a Cryptic and going to town with Mistbind. He has no card in hand and....topdecks the Electrolyze when I can only counter for 2 with a Spellstutter. Sigh.
Game 2 - 40 minute game where we both draw 15+ lands. He draws all his Colennades, while I don't see a Blossom or a Creeping Tar Pit for the entire game. Eventually a combination of Vendilion Clique and Mutavault get there.
Game 3 - We go to turns, but I spend the entire game in control, at one point starting to swing with 4 Mutavaults (this is on turn 10). He draws enough kill spells to answer them, but he never touches my life total, I have him to 8, and would've gotten to play a Bitterblossom into a tapped out board with him having only counters in hand. With time it's an easy win, but unfortunately becomes a draw.
Round 5 - Burn Zoo
Game 1 - Had seen the opponent play turn 1 Nacatl the round before, but was a bit confused when he went t1 Goblin Guide, t2 Boros Charm your face, t3 suspend Rift Bolt and play Hellspark Elemental. Turns out he was playing Small Zoo but very burn-oriented. I get out an early Bitterblossom to start chumping out the Guide and Hellspark. Eventually he taps out to play spells pre-combat, and I flash in a Mistbind to eat his Wild Nicatl and stabalize at three. he plays A hellspark, I counter it, he unearths it, trampling over to take me down to 1. I swing, put him to 7 and pass with his only card being a land. Upkeep tap him out with another mistbind, he draws and it's a burnspell he can't cast.
Game 2 - He mulligans and I have everything I need. Early spellstutters take care of his burn and I start beating him down after landing a t3 Blossom with Spell Snare backup for his burn spells. End the game with a hand full of removal.
Round 6 - Affinity
We ID as I'm currently first seed and top 6 are all locks. My UWR opponent gets paired against the Burn Zoo player and forces them to play (was kind of a ****** all day, so wasn't surprising).
End standings as second seed, with the Burn Zoo player getting first from having been forced to play. Top 8 consists of 2 Affinity, 1 Zoo, 1 Tron, 1 UWR control, 1 Scapeshift, 1 Tarmo Twin, and myself. 3 of them were people I had played and beaten/drawn with. I get paired against the Tron player.
Quarters
Game 1 - I demolish his hand early. He is left with a pair of Relics and a Sphere, and since he has a relic out, I EOT a Snapcaster with no targets, then next turn play and equip a SoFaF and swing. next turn....second SoFaF. He gets down to 0 cards in hand. Ends up getting Eye and playing a Wurmcoil, I cryptic it. Drop him to 2, say go. He EoTs Eye for Emrakul, then realizes he only has 12 mana. I have 6 lands, 1 being a Tar Pit and 1 a Mutavault, as well as two swords out ( he had played an All is Dust to kill just a Snapcaster.) He draws and it's his only Ghost Quarter in the deck, giving him his 13th mana so he can cast Emrakul AND has it to kill my Mutavault. Must be nice, right?
Game 2 - He mulls to 6 and I destroy his opening hand with Iok/Thoughtseize/Thoughtseize. Doesn't matter though, because in true Tron player fashion he goes, in order, 3rd Tron land, Wurmcoil, Karn off the top of his deck like a champ. I scoop it up in a bit of salty disgust. I know it isn't his fault, but still felt like utter bull*****.
Overall record for the day: 6-2-2, one draw being an ID and one a game I would've won if not in time. List was fine, didn't really dislike anything in it. Negates/Glen Elendras would've been nice once or twice during the day, but overall every card except the Hurkyl's were used. Spreading Seas got sided in the most. MVP in the maindeck was Dismember.
UB Faeries GP Record - 22/9/2, 1 Top 64
4 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Vendilion Clique
3 Mistbind Clique
Spells:
4 Bitterblossom
3 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Cryptic Command
4 Mana Leak
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Spell Snare
4 Secluded Glen
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Temple of Epiphany
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Steam Vents
4 Mutavault
3 Island
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
2 Pithing Needle
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Spellskite
2 Magma Spray
1 Dismember
1 Counterflux
1 Keranos, God of Storms
Red splash only for Lightning Bolt in the mainboard and Magma Spray, Counterflux and Keranos, God of Storms in the sideboard.
Is 7 red lands enough to consistently cast Bolt? And why did you choose Temple of Epiphany?
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Thank you for the report. Spreading Seas + Sower is decent against Tron, but it is a difficult MU for control even when they don't draw serendipitously. I see you play 3x Dismember. My spot removal is 2x Tragic Slip, 2x Go for the Throat, and 1x Dismember. I've been thinking of either cutting one Tragic Slip for another Dismember. Or perhaps a Slaughter Pact. Were there any times that you couldn't cast Dismember due to your life total?