how is ashiok working for you? i can see the pros of running monastery siege as well. it is relevant in more than one match up. against control, it lets us filter, and against things with targeted removal/discard, the tax is relevant.
i'm still not a fan of not playing discard in the mainboard. i admit that i am old school with this deck, and i can see the wisdom of playing more removal instead of discard, especially seeing how creature heavy the format is. however, running into something that doesn't rely too much on creatures, having all these dead cards never sits well with me. whatever we choose to run in the removal/discard suite serves to get us into the mid/early late game by getting rid of problems that slip through before our defenses are online. then we just sit back and run with our virtual card advantage from blossom.
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So far, Ashiok has pulled hate from opponent's TS or IoK. It helped me win my game vs Esper control tho. Ult'd to exile hand/grave. Needs a lot more testing. I am also really considering the new Ob-Nix, too. I think he's real solid even at 5...
Esper Faeries: Havn't tried in a real match since I don't have most of the cards, but in playtesting it seems pretty solid. Path to Exile is solid removal, and restoration angel gives every other creature a LOT more mileage. I included inquisitions over thoughtsize b.c of the inclusion of shock and fetchlands.
Scions are still nice if using Conclave and Mutavault... but scions will mess up a resto angel (unless blinking the scion which would be likely target for opp's removal). I keep wanting to try a white splash for resto and sphinx's Rev, honestly UW faeries would be good if BB wasn't black. We use BB, removal, and (discard) in black. White removal is great though...better. I am already trying no discard, so no loss there... just the BB keeps black in then for me.
Play more control faeries, and cut blossom.
Test it out, see how it goes.
It might sound bad, but really, blossom is not fantastic, merely very good.
If you wanted to, you could also splash a shock or two just for a couple of blossoms, and play no other black cards.
I'm going to be trying a 2-of Whip of Erebos in my list at my store's weekly modern tournament this week, essentially replacing the 2-of Sword of Feast and Famine. Comes down on the same turn that your first Bitterblossom token starts swinging, and it has some synergy (albeit not a ton) with the ETB effects of your Faeries. Mostly with Vendilion Clique and Mistbind Clique, since it's sorcery speed. I kind of like it as an option that doesn't have to be equipped and lets you race a lot more effectively. You go from losing life with Bitterblossom to gaining it with a couple of swings. I only wish the ability was instant-speed. Would make it a fantastic card.
I would never feel comfortable tapping out for whip. It feels mediocre even when you do play it, but I'm worried about ever finding a safe opening to drop it.
Tell us how it goes, I guess, but I think there might be better options for lifegain.
It does feel almost fantastic, but just not good enough in every way.
I would never feel comfortable tapping out for whip. It feels mediocre even when you do play it, but I'm worried about ever finding a safe opening to drop it.
Tell us how it goes, I guess, but I think there might be better options for lifegain.
It does feel almost fantastic, but just not good enough in every way.
Well, tell us how it does.
I've playtesting it some out of curiosity in some casual games (nothing serious), and it feels awkward to cast like any other big sorcery speed permanent in this deck. The activated sorcery limitation is also big unless you're trying to bring in a clique of some description to close out the game. It also only does a lot for you when you're pushing a lot of creature damage (read, Bitterblossom has pumped some serious tokens already). Overall, I'd say it feels clunky and winmore when it sticks, which it doesn't always due to being suceptible to both enchantment and artifact hate, which deck's run against us anyways to kill the blossom.
This isn't tested against in a super competitive environment, mind, but it's still my results.
I feel like you're probably right in your analysis. The main selling point for me is that it doesn't get hit by Abrupt Decay like the swords do. Abrupt Decay has been completely wrecking me at the shop, and in any matchup that has Abrupt Decay, racing with life-link seems pretty relevant.
It could suck, but *shrug*. I won't know until I try it.
Have you guys seen the URb Fae Jeff Hoogland plays lately? http://www.themeadery.org/decks/deck/7194/ That is the list I am referring to. I was watching the stream today, was 1-1 on the daily didn't get to see the entire stream though so I don't know final result. The deck looked to perform quite ok.
Have you guys seen the URb Fae Jeff Hoogland plays lately? http://www.themeadery.org/decks/deck/7194/ That is the list I am referring to. I was watching the stream today, was 1-1 on the daily didn't get to see the entire stream though so I don't know final result. The deck looked to perform quite ok.
It seems more than interesting to me. I'd like to see this in action. Full on tempo aggro/control. Seems like it can get there. I still feel there are some clunky cards in there, though that can't be proved until tested. THIS is thinking outside the box, and I like that.
I get there are no Bitterblossom. But before disregarding the list because of that, let's test it or see how it does.
I think I'd make this changes though:
-2 Anticipate, -1 Izzet Charm -1 Mana Leak -2 Burst Lightning +4 Serum Visions +2 Bitterblossom.
That is with no testing on my side on this approach, so I will try to sleeve this up and try it somethime this week.
The sideboard looks quite intriguing:
Far // Away, Murderous Cut and no Dispel seem wrong to me. I'd change those 2 for 2 dipels, -1 Negate +1 Keranos, God of Storms.
Still, those changes would be for metagame reasons, and with no previous testing. So not really healthy for that matter. I will try the list asap. What do you fellas think?
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Its an interesting list. I don't think he has enough faeries for spellstutter to actually counter things other than cmc 1 a majority of the time.
4 Snaps is a lot, but he does have a lot of spells.
His list seems to keep black in for "bad" cards. Why bother playing black if its just for kommand and a single cut (since dismem can be played without black mana) I guess you get tar pit too, but mutavault is fine in 2 colors, and 4 of them in 3 colors is a bit iffy.
With kommand, isn't fulminator mage just straight better than stone rain? Is the colors/nonbasic clause that big?
I've always hated gftt in the side. I'd rather play doom blade even. I can get behind a single far/away, it deals with bogles/infect well, as you can bounce their dork/arbor/whatever else they hedge on to stop edicts.
Not a fan of burst lightning here. Izzet charm feels mediocre, but I would test it before cutting it. Anticipate is alright, but might be ok.
I think he really doesn't run enough faeries. He has 3 scions, but so few creatures that actually benefit from the buff. A mistbind or two, a quickling or two, some bitterblossoms, I don't know, I feel like just playing grixis is better than the deck he has there.
you don't need dispel in that list. spellstutter accomplishes almost the same thing. it hard counters low curve spells and creatures in the late game, which is something remand and leak don't do. i fully see where he's going with that list. its an evolution of his UR delver/spellstutter deck that he played 2 years ago. command is good because every creature is value that you want back. the weakest card in the list is the izzet charm. i've also been toying with the idea of telling time vs anticipate in URx decks. the question there is, "what are the odds there are two cards in the top three you want vs one card?" I would assume the scions are there to power the vaults. you're swinging with a shrouded 4/4 when you get 2 out, while keeping up the majority of your mana to deal with things, and you're not reliant on creatures to close things out because you're running 22-26 points of burn not counting snapcasters.
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you don't need dispel in that list. spellstutter accomplishes almost the same thing. it hard counters low curve spells and creatures in the late game, which is something remand and leak don't do.
Dispel counters Cryptic Command, Kolaghan's Command, Non-Decay Removal, Gifts Ungiven, Electrolyze, etc. It counters a lot more spells than 'low cmc' spells for only U. While Spellstutter is awesome (and it is one of my favorite magic cards ever, if not the favorite), it doesn't cover the same role.
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If we are revisiting old ideas, what do you guys think of perhaps Peppersmoke over Disfigure? cantripping is potentially helpful, but I'm not sure how the loss of -1 toughness hurts on the 1 cost removal front.
Also, perhaps Anticipate could be useful to help control draws and help top decking? Just some random ideas I'm having while sitting up sick tonight.
I've been playing tragic slip a lot, and sometimes the -1/-1 is fine, but a lot of the time, its the -13/-13 you really want.
I'm not sure peppersmoke is the best.
I wish more of our guys had more than 1 toughness, so we would be able to cycle it.
As it is, worth a shot. You'll hate yourself against burn and zoo though (just in case you don't already)
I've been playing tragic slip a lot, and sometimes the -1/-1 is fine, but a lot of the time, its the -13/-13 you really want.
I'm not sure peppersmoke is the best.
I wish more of our guys had more than 1 toughness, so we would be able to cycle it.
As it is, worth a shot. You'll hate yourself against burn and zoo though (just in case you don't already)
Well, if people are testing Quickling more seriously, that leaves it, Mistbind, and popping tokens for cards as potential cycling targets. Also, if you just want to cycle, you could always just hit an enemy dude to mess with combat math or something.
It was just a thought anyways, a cheap cantrip that can be early game removal seems useful to us, but the drop off from Disfigure might be too much.
When I ran Pepper, our store was full of UR decks so it had plenty of targets in Snapcaster and Pyromancer.
Aside from those it's decent at letting your tokens trade up or get that extra point against a Mistbind blocking a rhino. Other than that I usually just ended up cycling it.
Need some help with the UW brew though. After friendly tests I find the need for early game removal and when I don't have a path it hurts a lot.
I'm going to put in 2 dismemebers but what else does UW have? I thought maybe Azurious Charm or vapour snag to bounce dudes, or even reality shift but I'd rather not give them free dudes.
Any tips?
Currently it's 4 paths, 2 dismember and 9 counters not including Spellstutter.
I can't imagine not running BB, it fuels everything and is a wincon on its own. I've sided them out before and just felt underpowered and had to rely solely on Mistbind.
BB charges spellstutter. It gives scion a better home. It gives targets for Mistbind. It chump blocks, it provides a clock. I don't think I'd enjoy UW fae - maybe it's attemptable to splash one way or the other.
As far as other removal goes. Condemn, Harm's Way, Reciprocate, Righteous Blow. Those seem the other best 1 CMC white removal spells. Harm's Way and Righteous Blow more like Disfigure
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i'm still not a fan of not playing discard in the mainboard. i admit that i am old school with this deck, and i can see the wisdom of playing more removal instead of discard, especially seeing how creature heavy the format is. however, running into something that doesn't rely too much on creatures, having all these dead cards never sits well with me. whatever we choose to run in the removal/discard suite serves to get us into the mid/early late game by getting rid of problems that slip through before our defenses are online. then we just sit back and run with our virtual card advantage from blossom.
3x Flooded Strand
1x Godless Shrine
2x Hallowed Fountain
4x Island
4x Mutavault
1x Plains
2x Polluted Delta
3x River of Tears
1x Swamp
1x Watery Grave
2x Restoration Angel
2x Scion of Oona
2x Snapcaster Mage
4x Spellstutter Sprite
3x Vendilion Clique
3x Cryptic Command
3x Mana Leak
4x Path to Exile
3x Remand
4x Bitterblossom
Since there's less faeries, I'm not sure if Scions should be included over swords.
Test it out, see how it goes.
It might sound bad, but really, blossom is not fantastic, merely very good.
If you wanted to, you could also splash a shock or two just for a couple of blossoms, and play no other black cards.
Lantern Prison
Dredge
Nahiri Harbinger
Tell us how it goes, I guess, but I think there might be better options for lifegain.
It does feel almost fantastic, but just not good enough in every way.
Well, tell us how it does.
I've playtesting it some out of curiosity in some casual games (nothing serious), and it feels awkward to cast like any other big sorcery speed permanent in this deck. The activated sorcery limitation is also big unless you're trying to bring in a clique of some description to close out the game. It also only does a lot for you when you're pushing a lot of creature damage (read, Bitterblossom has pumped some serious tokens already). Overall, I'd say it feels clunky and winmore when it sticks, which it doesn't always due to being suceptible to both enchantment and artifact hate, which deck's run against us anyways to kill the blossom.
This isn't tested against in a super competitive environment, mind, but it's still my results.
It could suck, but *shrug*. I won't know until I try it.
Lantern Prison
Dredge
Nahiri Harbinger
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
The list:
1x Spell Pierce
2x Burst Lightning
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Spell Snare
CMC2:
4x Spellstutter Sprite
4x Snapcaster Mage
3x Remand
3x Mana Leak
1x Izzet Charm
2x Anticipate
CMC3:
3x Scion of Oona
2x Vendilion Clique
1x Electrolyze
1x Dismember
2x Kolaghan's Commang
1x Cryptic Command
1x Murderous Cut
Lands:
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Mutavault
4x Polluted Delta
2x Steam Vents
1x Blood Crypt
1x Darkslick Shores
1x Watery Grave
1x Sulfur Falls
1x Creeping Tar Pit
3x Island
1x Mountain
2 Negate
3 Stone Rain
1 Go For The Throat
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Spellskite
1 Dreadbore
1 Far // Away
2 Magma Spray
1 Murderous Cut
It seems more than interesting to me. I'd like to see this in action. Full on tempo aggro/control. Seems like it can get there. I still feel there are some clunky cards in there, though that can't be proved until tested. THIS is thinking outside the box, and I like that.
I get there are no Bitterblossom. But before disregarding the list because of that, let's test it or see how it does.
I think I'd make this changes though:
-2 Anticipate, -1 Izzet Charm -1 Mana Leak -2 Burst Lightning +4 Serum Visions +2 Bitterblossom.
That is with no testing on my side on this approach, so I will try to sleeve this up and try it somethime this week.
The sideboard looks quite intriguing:
Far // Away, Murderous Cut and no Dispel seem wrong to me. I'd change those 2 for 2 dipels, -1 Negate +1 Keranos, God of Storms.
Still, those changes would be for metagame reasons, and with no previous testing. So not really healthy for that matter. I will try the list asap. What do you fellas think?
4 Snaps is a lot, but he does have a lot of spells.
His list seems to keep black in for "bad" cards. Why bother playing black if its just for kommand and a single cut (since dismem can be played without black mana) I guess you get tar pit too, but mutavault is fine in 2 colors, and 4 of them in 3 colors is a bit iffy.
With kommand, isn't fulminator mage just straight better than stone rain? Is the colors/nonbasic clause that big?
I've always hated gftt in the side. I'd rather play doom blade even. I can get behind a single far/away, it deals with bogles/infect well, as you can bounce their dork/arbor/whatever else they hedge on to stop edicts.
Not a fan of burst lightning here. Izzet charm feels mediocre, but I would test it before cutting it. Anticipate is alright, but might be ok.
I think he really doesn't run enough faeries. He has 3 scions, but so few creatures that actually benefit from the buff. A mistbind or two, a quickling or two, some bitterblossoms, I don't know, I feel like just playing grixis is better than the deck he has there.
Dispel counters Cryptic Command, Kolaghan's Command, Non-Decay Removal, Gifts Ungiven, Electrolyze, etc. It counters a lot more spells than 'low cmc' spells for only U. While Spellstutter is awesome (and it is one of my favorite magic cards ever, if not the favorite), it doesn't cover the same role.
Also, perhaps Anticipate could be useful to help control draws and help top decking? Just some random ideas I'm having while sitting up sick tonight.
I'm not sure peppersmoke is the best.
I wish more of our guys had more than 1 toughness, so we would be able to cycle it.
As it is, worth a shot. You'll hate yourself against burn and zoo though (just in case you don't already)
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
Well, if people are testing Quickling more seriously, that leaves it, Mistbind, and popping tokens for cards as potential cycling targets. Also, if you just want to cycle, you could always just hit an enemy dude to mess with combat math or something.
It was just a thought anyways, a cheap cantrip that can be early game removal seems useful to us, but the drop off from Disfigure might be too much.
Aside from those it's decent at letting your tokens trade up or get that extra point against a Mistbind blocking a rhino. Other than that I usually just ended up cycling it.
Need some help with the UW brew though. After friendly tests I find the need for early game removal and when I don't have a path it hurts a lot.
I'm going to put in 2 dismemebers but what else does UW have? I thought maybe Azurious Charm or vapour snag to bounce dudes, or even reality shift but I'd rather not give them free dudes.
Any tips?
Currently it's 4 paths, 2 dismember and 9 counters not including Spellstutter.
BB charges spellstutter. It gives scion a better home. It gives targets for Mistbind. It chump blocks, it provides a clock. I don't think I'd enjoy UW fae - maybe it's attemptable to splash one way or the other.
As far as other removal goes. Condemn, Harm's Way, Reciprocate, Righteous Blow. Those seem the other best 1 CMC white removal spells. Harm's Way and Righteous Blow more like Disfigure