Well I also look for other angles that can be profitable with cards in question so it isn't just for affinity, it would be for pod and merfolk aswell. Also I am back to testing runechanter's pike over swords because they seem to help swing damage in games better than swords at 2 mana and a higher impact on the game with first strike and flexible levels of power bonuses. It really helps to have the card that swings the game come down at 2 mana and be a backup and/or threat for bitterblossom
Engineered Explosives is also better against Merfolk than Drown in Sorrows. Runechanter's Pike seems like a decent idea.
Well I also look for other angles that can be profitable with cards in question so it isn't just for affinity, it would be for pod and merfolk aswell. Also I am back to testing runechanter's pike over swords because they seem to help swing damage in games better than swords at 2 mana and a higher impact on the game with first strike and flexible levels of power bonuses. It really helps to have the card that swings the game come down at 2 mana and be a backup and/or threat for bitterblossom
Engineered Explosives is also better against Merfolk than Drown in Sorrows. Runechanter's Pike seems like a decent idea.
Well I also look for other angles that can be profitable with cards in question so it isn't just for affinity, it would be for pod and merfolk aswell. Also I am back to testing runechanter's pike over swords because they seem to help swing damage in games better than swords at 2 mana and a higher impact on the game with first strike and flexible levels of power bonuses. It really helps to have the card that swings the game come down at 2 mana and be a backup and/or threat for bitterblossom
Engineered Explosives is also better against Merfolk than Drown in Sorrows. Runechanter's Pike seems like a decent idea.
Arguable.
I think the reason for EE over DiS is that EE references the casting cost, and that does not change. Unlike toughness, which changes surprisingly quickly! EE won't hit Reejeray but will remove the lords and adepts. EE for 2 leaves our rogue tokens unharmed into the bargain. The downside is that it removes 'blossom
But the reason we still play EE is that it also hits Aether Vial. If left unanswered, Vial turns our dozen counterspells into dead cards against Merfolk. And to a lesser extent the same applies to Hatebear.
Well I also look for other angles that can be profitable with cards in question so it isn't just for affinity, it would be for pod and merfolk aswell. Also I am back to testing runechanter's pike over swords because they seem to help swing damage in games better than swords at 2 mana and a higher impact on the game with first strike and flexible levels of power bonuses. It really helps to have the card that swings the game come down at 2 mana and be a backup and/or threat for bitterblossom
Engineered Explosives is also better against Merfolk than Drown in Sorrows. Runechanter's Pike seems like a decent idea.
Arguable.
I think the reason for EE over DiS is that EE references the casting cost, and that does not change. Unlike toughness, which changes surprisingly quickly! EE won't hit Reejeray but will remove the lords and adepts. EE for 2 leaves our rogue tokens unharmed into the bargain. The downside is that it removes 'blossom
By this point in the game it wouldn't be unheard of to be sitting on one in hand, though.
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There is no reason being friendly and being competitive can't be synonymous.
Well I also look for other angles that can be profitable with cards in question so it isn't just for affinity, it would be for pod and merfolk aswell. Also I am back to testing runechanter's pike over swords because they seem to help swing damage in games better than swords at 2 mana and a higher impact on the game with first strike and flexible levels of power bonuses. It really helps to have the card that swings the game come down at 2 mana and be a backup and/or threat for bitterblossom
Engineered Explosives is also better against Merfolk than Drown in Sorrows. Runechanter's Pike seems like a decent idea.
Arguable.
Not really. Merfolk gets its creatures over 2 toughness easily and all of their main threats are 2 cmc.
Well I also look for other angles that can be profitable with cards in question so it isn't just for affinity, it would be for pod and merfolk aswell. Also I am back to testing runechanter's pike over swords because they seem to help swing damage in games better than swords at 2 mana and a higher impact on the game with first strike and flexible levels of power bonuses. It really helps to have the card that swings the game come down at 2 mana and be a backup and/or threat for bitterblossom
Engineered Explosives is also better against Merfolk than Drown in Sorrows. Runechanter's Pike seems like a decent idea.
Arguable.
I think the reason for EE over DiS is that EE references the casting cost, and that does not change. Unlike toughness, which changes surprisingly quickly! EE won't hit Reejeray but will remove the lords and adepts. EE for 2 leaves our rogue tokens unharmed into the bargain. The downside is that it removes 'blossom
By this point in the game it wouldn't be unheard of to be sitting on one in hand, though.
That's true, but I think what swings it for EE is my earlier point about Vial. We must answer it or our dozen counterspells are almost all dead cards. This also applies - to a lesser extent - to Hatebear. I think we go EE over DiS for those reasons. Hits 2cmc. Hits Vial. Hits other stuff like Ascension. Hits 'goyf. Hits Delver. Does not hit Twin or Pod. Sometimes hits our own cards. I see it as on balance a necessary evil. 2-3 in SB. I don't think that means DiS is out, necessarily, but if I had to cut one to make room I would cut DiS.
Engineered Explosives is also better against Merfolk than Drown in Sorrows. Runechanter's Pike seems like a decent idea.
Arguable.
I think the reason for EE over DiS is that EE references the casting cost, and that does not change. Unlike toughness, which changes surprisingly quickly! EE won't hit Reejeray but will remove the lords and adepts. EE for 2 leaves our rogue tokens unharmed into the bargain. The downside is that it removes 'blossom
By this point in the game it wouldn't be unheard of to be sitting on one in hand, though.
That's true, but I think what swings it for EE is my earlier point about Vial. We must answer it or our dozen counterspells are almost all dead cards. This also applies - to a lesser extent - to Hatebear. I think we go EE over DiS for those reasons. Hits 2cmc. Hits Vial. Hits other stuff like Ascension. Hits 'goyf. Hits Delver. Does not hit Twin or Pod. Sometimes hits our own cards. I see it as on balance a necessary evil. 2-3 in SB. I don't think that means DiS is out, necessarily, but if I had to cut one to make room I would cut DiS.
I'd absolutely agree with you. Versatility usually makes for a better card. Usually.
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There is no reason being friendly and being competitive can't be synonymous.
Yeah I think EE is almost a needed card in the SB. I would be really surprised to see a list with zero in the 75. Here is the SB I will be using for a little while to see how I like it. So far its been pretty solid. I am still making small adjustments in the 15 and 60. Speaking of which, how many lands do you guys like to play? I am currently playing 25 with 6 four drops. I have a friend playing 23. What do you guys like? Here is the SB:
To get over Sorrow they need 2 lords, not 1. Requires a much better hand, and requires them to be able to resolve two, neither of which should happen. Ratchet Bomb is also better overall than EE, at least in my experience.
I saw a recent faeries deck played 2x Temple of Deceit and no Sunken Ruins. The 2 scrye lands might not be a bad idea. I've been waiting for them to start creeping (pun) into more modern decks. What do you all think?
too many tapped lands are bad for the deck. you really want untapped mana the first 4 turns. you can get away with playing a tapped turn 1, but more than that is pretty bad. and in terms of playability, tar pit is an overall better card.
did anyone see that daily list that ran 4 pack rat?
also, i disagree about ratchet bomb being better than EE. sure, ratchet bomb can get you to higher numbers, but it is glacial and is a huge liability with cards like disenchant and wear//tear floating around.
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I speak in sarcasm because calling people ******* ******** is not allowed.
Though I saw the pack rat tech I still can't get behind the idea of the card here. It is simply an alternate choice of making use of the dead cards this archetype can come across during games and getting some value from them, but KT looks very weird
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Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
too many tapped lands are bad for the deck. you really want untapped mana the first 4 turns. you can get away with playing a tapped turn 1, but more than that is pretty bad. and in terms of playability, tar pit is an overall better card.
did anyone see that daily list that ran 4 pack rat?
also, i disagree about ratchet bomb being better than EE. sure, ratchet bomb can get you to higher numbers, but it is glacial and is a huge liability with cards like disenchant and wear//tear floating around.
If they're Disenchanting your Ratchet Bomb you should be winning the game with Bitterblossom.
Ratchet Bomb requires no open mana, while EE requires 2 to pop it. That is huge, and WILL cost you games. EE is not bad, but I've tested both against any deck in the format I would care to play them against and Ratchet Bomb performed better.
if you're losing to blood moon, you're building your land base wrong. there is no need to run 4 of every ub dual. that's all i got for that.
anyways, did you guys see the m15 spoiler Quickling?
1U - Faerie Rouge
Flash, Flying
When ~ enters the battlefield, sacrifice it unless you return another creature you control to its owner's hand.
2/2
if only it was U and a 2/1. but either way, worth some consideration in a scion build, or it may take snapcaster slots in a mistbind build. i am excited for this card.
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I speak in sarcasm because calling people ******* ******** is not allowed.
I think it is almost decent. I thought that Familiar's ruse has so many uses in this deck since it has 12 creatures that would benefit being back in the hand(snapcaster, spellstutter, and the cliques). I really wanted to fit jace in as right now I feel not having strong card draw makes it weaker than it was in standard, but I really want the faerie decks working again.
I think I was dancing around at the sight of this...I lost track of time thinking about this card lol. I always wanted faerie imposter to have flash. I think I need 8 lol as I am looking to build an aggro fae game plan as a fun deck and that thing swings for 3 with a scion. So psyched. And for those who are curious as to my remark about runechanter's pike it helps me apply a lot of pressure and really steals games with proper play, but my lilianas were put in the board to accommodate that. The big benefit is that it is an equipment at two mana so it is the backup drop for bitter blossom that implies that this card can win me the game if left unchecked (not in the same dynamic fashion bitterblosskm can but still makes your cards better)
Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
if you're losing to blood moon, you're building your land base wrong. there is no need to run 4 of every ub dual. that's all i got for that.
anyways, did you guys see the m15 spoiler Quickling?
1U - Faerie Rouge
Flash, Flying
When ~ enters the battlefield, sacrifice it unless you return another creature you control to its owner's hand.
2/2
if only it was U and a 2/1. but either way, worth some consideration in a scion build, or it may take snapcaster slots in a mistbind build. i am excited for this card.
I'm not totally excited at the moment. As a Faerie Impostor with flash it would have been slightly better but than again, the sacrifice part can lead to blowouts.. if it was "return a creature to your hand" it would be WAY better. I can see it being used efficiently in a Scion build, but I don't think it's really worth Snapcasters Slots in a "controlish" one. I may be blatantly wrong though.
Edit: I would love the card if it simply said "return another Faerie to your hand" though.. another way of stopping Bitterblossom from bleeding you out would have been amazing.
if you're losing to blood moon, you're building your land base wrong. there is no need to run 4 of every ub dual. that's all i got for that.
anyways, did you guys see the m15 spoiler Quickling?
1U - Faerie Rouge
Flash, Flying
When ~ enters the battlefield, sacrifice it unless you return another creature you control to its owner's hand.
2/2
if only it was U and a 2/1. but either way, worth some consideration in a scion build, or it may take snapcaster slots in a mistbind build. i am excited for this card.
I'm not totally excited at the moment. As a Faerie Impostor with flash it would have been slightly better but than again, the sacrifice part can lead to blowouts.. if it was "return a creature to your hand" it would be WAY better. I can see it being used efficiently in a Scion build, but I don't think it's really worth Snapcasters Slots in a "controlish" one. I may be blatantly wrong though.
Edit: I would love the card if it simply said "return another Faerie to your hand" though.. another way of stopping Bitterblossom from bleeding you out would have been amazing.
Yeah the sacrifice part could be problematic but Mistbind Clique has the same problem and that doesnt stop us from using them. You can play around the potential blowout
First of all I want to make clear, that I am mostly thinking of the standard build most of us are using here (so no Scion) and that I really want to understand why some of you think this card could help us, so I don't want to bash anything here.
I think you are overseeing the major difference. Of course Mistbind has (at least sometimes) the same problem but it has a) a way bigger impact on the board (granted, for a much greater cmc) and it lets you remove any Faerie. I often play Mistbind when I have a Blossom out, simply because it's a good fallback target for the abbility if anything happens to your Spellstutter or whichever creature you wanted to champion. Quickling could be an auto include if it had this exact wording, but sadly that's way to specific for a core set.
Of course you will still be able to play around a blowout, I don't doubt that, but I can't really see how whe can really gain something from it. A 2/2 flash flying Fae (or even 2/1) without any text would have been better in my opinion. I really want to understand your point of view though, so can anyone point out one or two situations where you would be happy to have this in hand (or draw it) that are really impactful?
I mean I see those Quickling -> Spellstutter to hand -> Spellstutter plays but they require a huge amount of mana and at least some knowledge what your opponent could have. Quickling -> reset any Fae can be nice as well, but than again you are holding a useless card for at least 2, in most cases way more, turns? Snapcaster on the other hand opens a ton more plays, which on the other hand can be quite expensive cmc wise but he will never be dead, as he can be flashed onto an empty board simply for the beatdown.
It is the fact that quick long opens up so many lines of play as far as tech is concerned and both scenarios you mentioned are by far the reasons people are looking at this card. Also bitter blossom tokens can be sacrificed to it. If need? be. This is a huge card when trying to dodge removal and not lose too much pressure also. As a player who has bounced my tapped mistbind clique to return my spell stutter sprite the card opens up more lines of tech, but isn't a card for a specific matchup...just another card to test in the fae engine
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Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
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Engineered Explosives is also better against Merfolk than Drown in Sorrows. Runechanter's Pike seems like a decent idea.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Arguable.
UB Faeries GP Record - 22/9/2, 1 Top 64
I think the reason for EE over DiS is that EE references the casting cost, and that does not change. Unlike toughness, which changes surprisingly quickly! EE won't hit Reejeray but will remove the lords and adepts. EE for 2 leaves our rogue tokens unharmed into the bargain. The downside is that it removes 'blossom
But the reason we still play EE is that it also hits Aether Vial. If left unanswered, Vial turns our dozen counterspells into dead cards against Merfolk. And to a lesser extent the same applies to Hatebear.
By this point in the game it wouldn't be unheard of to be sitting on one in hand, though.
Not really. Merfolk gets its creatures over 2 toughness easily and all of their main threats are 2 cmc.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
That's true, but I think what swings it for EE is my earlier point about Vial. We must answer it or our dozen counterspells are almost all dead cards. This also applies - to a lesser extent - to Hatebear. I think we go EE over DiS for those reasons. Hits 2cmc. Hits Vial. Hits other stuff like Ascension. Hits 'goyf. Hits Delver. Does not hit Twin or Pod. Sometimes hits our own cards. I see it as on balance a necessary evil. 2-3 in SB. I don't think that means DiS is out, necessarily, but if I had to cut one to make room I would cut DiS.
2 Hurklys Recall
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Grafdiggers Cage
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Darkblast
1 Damnation
1 Jace Beleren
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Batterskull
Cards I would really like to try: Hibernation, Threads of Disloyalty, and possibly Sower of Temptation, though I think Sower might be a little slow.
UB Faeries GP Record - 22/9/2, 1 Top 64
did anyone see that daily list that ran 4 pack rat?
also, i disagree about ratchet bomb being better than EE. sure, ratchet bomb can get you to higher numbers, but it is glacial and is a huge liability with cards like disenchant and wear//tear floating around.
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
If they're Disenchanting your Ratchet Bomb you should be winning the game with Bitterblossom.
Ratchet Bomb requires no open mana, while EE requires 2 to pop it. That is huge, and WILL cost you games. EE is not bad, but I've tested both against any deck in the format I would care to play them against and Ratchet Bomb performed better.
UB Faeries GP Record - 22/9/2, 1 Top 64
anyways, did you guys see the m15 spoiler Quickling?
1U - Faerie Rouge
Flash, Flying
When ~ enters the battlefield, sacrifice it unless you return another creature you control to its owner's hand.
2/2
if only it was U and a 2/1. but either way, worth some consideration in a scion build, or it may take snapcaster slots in a mistbind build. i am excited for this card.
3 Vendilion Clique
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Bitterblossom
2 Mana Leak
4 Cryptic Command
2 Vendetta
2 Go for the Throat
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Familiar's Ruse
4 Darkslick Shores
2 Watery Grave
3 River of Tears
3 Secluded Glen
3 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Mutavault
2 Sunken Ruins
3 Island
1 Swamp
2 Grafdigger's Cage
4 Hurkyls recall
3 Spellskite
4 Hibernation
I think it is almost decent. I thought that Familiar's ruse has so many uses in this deck since it has 12 creatures that would benefit being back in the hand(snapcaster, spellstutter, and the cliques). I really wanted to fit jace in as right now I feel not having strong card draw makes it weaker than it was in standard, but I really want the faerie decks working again.
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
I'm not totally excited at the moment. As a Faerie Impostor with flash it would have been slightly better but than again, the sacrifice part can lead to blowouts.. if it was "return a creature to your hand" it would be WAY better. I can see it being used efficiently in a Scion build, but I don't think it's really worth Snapcasters Slots in a "controlish" one. I may be blatantly wrong though.
Edit: I would love the card if it simply said "return another Faerie to your hand" though.. another way of stopping Bitterblossom from bleeding you out would have been amazing.
Yeah the sacrifice part could be problematic but Mistbind Clique has the same problem and that doesnt stop us from using them. You can play around the potential blowout
I think you are overseeing the major difference. Of course Mistbind has (at least sometimes) the same problem but it has a) a way bigger impact on the board (granted, for a much greater cmc) and it lets you remove any Faerie. I often play Mistbind when I have a Blossom out, simply because it's a good fallback target for the abbility if anything happens to your Spellstutter or whichever creature you wanted to champion. Quickling could be an auto include if it had this exact wording, but sadly that's way to specific for a core set.
Of course you will still be able to play around a blowout, I don't doubt that, but I can't really see how whe can really gain something from it. A 2/2 flash flying Fae (or even 2/1) without any text would have been better in my opinion. I really want to understand your point of view though, so can anyone point out one or two situations where you would be happy to have this in hand (or draw it) that are really impactful?
I mean I see those Quickling -> Spellstutter to hand -> Spellstutter plays but they require a huge amount of mana and at least some knowledge what your opponent could have. Quickling -> reset any Fae can be nice as well, but than again you are holding a useless card for at least 2, in most cases way more, turns? Snapcaster on the other hand opens a ton more plays, which on the other hand can be quite expensive cmc wise but he will never be dead, as he can be flashed onto an empty board simply for the beatdown.
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control