If you're fetching lands with earlier traverses, you're also thinning your deck. This might not necessarily be a bad thing. I've found it very hard to cast traverse + huntmaster in one turn, so i usually spread this over two turns. I'm liking the package so far, especially with probes. i useally side out probes vs BGX, but now i can use traverse to trow a huge wrench in their gameplan. Hand contains a problematic Lilliana? Search for Obstinate Baloth/Dodecapod Hand is susceptible to moon? Search for Magus of the MoonHand is removal light? Search for your goyf/hunmaster. Hand contains unhealthy ammounts of lingering souls? That staticaster has got your back.
I like that plan, I need a Magus, sadly I don't own any. Rather than Mandrills I'm going with Pyromancer, I get that Mandrills are good but I'm not convinced Delve is where you want to be with Traverse. Note that I'm running Traverse MB. I'm still fairly new to the deck so I need to play it a bit in tournaments rather than xmage to get a feel for what does and doesn't work. I'm trying something that combined with Traverse should make me very threat heavy with 16 creatures and 20 threats while still maintaining a respectable 28 spells.
One of the things I like about MB Traverse is that you can cut lands a bit to include them.
The Redcap is just because I want to try him. Tutoring removal, a potential 4 for 1, or some burn seems like it could be useful. Display is a similar reason, it's probably bad but I've wanted to use the card since it was first printed and I don't think I have the density of 4 power creatures necessary to make Stubborn Denial a better protection spell.
As someone who played with Khans fetches for a while before being able to switch into the Zendikar ones, I can say that it's doable. Stomping Ground becomes a little more difficult to grab when you need it. Every once in a while it will totally screw you, but most games it's fine if you fetch intelligently. Misty Rainforest is another story though. Not having that will REALLY hamstring you.
Personally, I'm not a fan of that list though. Too many lands. Too many Snappys.
Then i turned his win condition in an expensive, sorcery speed, diabolic edict. Might not be the best play ever, but a resolved Lilly will take over the game if it has the chance, wich it won't now, buying you a great deal of time.
Again, it probably isn't optimal, but it's something i've been testing with some degree of success.
Dodecapod :') TY for the tech!!! I'll have to try this >:D It's even an artifact for Goyf $$$
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Dodecapod was serious tech years ago when Canadian Tresh was strugling with pox and it's ilk in legacy. I liked the idea of baloth, but it's 4/4 body won't get trough Goyfs/rhino's/ Tasigur. Now my foil dodecapods have another time to shine:)
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“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.” —Volrath
My wins where vs Abzan, Tezzerator and UWR control. I drawed vs another UWR and lost to stupid boggles. Being slightly intoxicated might have cost me that game. I didn't shoal his t1 Boggle. That deck should just cease to exist nevertheless.
As you can see, i've cut down to 16 lands and ''shaved'' my flex slots for 3 main deck traverses. I figured that early Traverses can find me that land i was missing, therefore setting up my turn a bit better. This high count of instants/sorceries also helped flip Delver more consistsntly game 1, where he shines. Removing the 3 Traverse from the side gave me more boardign options so i could run that sweet 2 grudge/1 revelry/natural state package while opening up some meta slots. Dodecapod is still in the experimental phase. As i said in an earlier post, it could be that deal breaker vs Lilliana that Obstinate Baloth never quite was. It comes with it's flaws ofcourse. But ever since i lived the dream of a turn 3 Dodecapod offo fo Lilly, turn 4 huntmaster, i'm a little bit in love.
I've never missed the lone snapcaster i've been playing for a while. You're on the bench buddy.
Any thoughts?
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“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.” —Volrath
My theoretical issue with running Traverse main (especially without a Snapcaster) is that it greatly weakens you to linear decks. The plus is that it helps a lot with attrition matchups. Your results seem to support this hypothesis.
Vs. linear decks (i.e. Bogles):
- you don't want too many threats and generally board some out
- you need to make your land drops and hold up mana for disruption
Traverse interferes with both of these plans. You can't just board out Traverse because running them main encourages you to shave your land count.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Played RUG Delver at what was a large tournament for the area, but pretty normal size for most people (~30 people, just short of 6 rounds plus a top 8). I managed to take second place with my first shot at the deck.
I ended up playing a Traverse build and really liked it, the list is back a page. Every time I've played a Delver variant in the past I've always run into issues with threat density, but not so here. I ended up playing against UR Delver, Merfolk, Jund, UWR Delver, Abzan Company, and a couple others. I lost to UR Delver in the Swiss and Affinity in the finals.
The things I noticed were that even with Traverse 16 lands are too low, but I play tested it with 18 for awhile and that lead to flooding out, so I'm going to try 17. On the subject of Traverse, it was always great. Sometimes I had to fire it off as a late game card so it was dead early but I was usually able to get creatures out of it. On that note, creatures were also the hardest card type to get into the GY for Delirium in several matches. Goyf hands are especially prone to this since they eat paths which exile instead. On multiple occasions where I had 4 mana I was able to extract some extra value from Traverse at the expense of time by going Traverse/Snap/Traverse then picking up a Huntmaster, Redcap, or Goyf for the following turn (depending on G1 or not). This sequence worked best at 4 lands, or in G1 it also worked at 6 lands for a Goyf. At 5 lands, Traverse/4 drop worked better. I also liked Redcap quite a bit, I'm probably going to drop 1 Huntmaster for a 3/1 split because being able to Traverse for removal is nice.
Beat Burn, Infect, affinity, and grixis midrange (jace,Kalitas,discard). Burn games came down to big goyfs, and feed the clan getting there. Infect and affinity came down to quick delvers or mandrills backed up by shoals and spell snares. Grixis was the only 2-0, and was the result of a mulligan to 5 in game 1. Disrupting shoal and remands were MVPs in the match-up, they prevented snapcasters and terminate from dealing with the bigger threats. The deck felt great, but am still unsure about the deprive and swerve in the board. One thing that I learned is that spell snare is absurd in the meta right now, and would never go below 2. Dropping the two snapcasters also felt great, but liked having atleast 1.
Deck looks good except for your manabase. Mountain? Hinterland Harbor? Double Breeding Pool? Seems like Moon is horrible in your build. Also, why no Huntmasters?
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
I am going to be switching the mountain for an island for the next event. Huntmaster may be one of my favorite cards of all times, but I have not been impressed by him. Too many games he was just uncastable or didn't do a whole lot. There are also just a lot of other sideboard cards i would also rather have. It could be possible I have not played the match-ups enough where he is good.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Anyone know of any mainboard or sideboard tech to help against Supreme Verdict decks?
I like the look of Wrap in Vigor but I haven't tested it yet.
Or, you could just not overextend..
^This. You shouldn't play bad cards just so you can play badly.
To be a little more helpfull.
Control decks that run Verdict usually run bolt, helix and path as their removal. Obviously path is the only card that can take care of your goyfs and monkeys. Keep your stubborn denials for those paths and don't over extend. If you follow this gameplan, you don't need clunky SB cards to deal with an otherwise winnable matchup.
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I like that plan, I need a Magus, sadly I don't own any. Rather than Mandrills I'm going with Pyromancer, I get that Mandrills are good but I'm not convinced Delve is where you want to be with Traverse. Note that I'm running Traverse MB. I'm still fairly new to the deck so I need to play it a bit in tournaments rather than xmage to get a feel for what does and doesn't work. I'm trying something that combined with Traverse should make me very threat heavy with 16 creatures and 20 threats while still maintaining a respectable 28 spells.
One of the things I like about MB Traverse is that you can cut lands a bit to include them.
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Breeding Pool
1 Stomping Ground
2 Island
1 Forest
1 Mountain
Creatures 16
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Vapor Snag
2 Forked Bolt
4 Serum Visions
3 Gitaxian Probe
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
1 Send to Sleep
2 Spell Snare
2 Remand
4 Mana Leak
4 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Electrolyze
2 Destructive Revelry
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Dismember
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Display of Dominance
1 Murderous Redcap
The Redcap is just because I want to try him. Tutoring removal, a potential 4 for 1, or some burn seems like it could be useful. Display is a similar reason, it's probably bad but I've wanted to use the card since it was first printed and I don't think I have the density of 4 power creatures necessary to make Stubborn Denial a better protection spell.
In a tempo list similar to this
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=11437&d=264932&f=MO
How much worse could it be if the tarns were polluted delta?
I mean, it takes out the basic mountain option for those 4 fetches, and the mountain might just be out anyway if I add blood moon to the side.
GBR Jund Midrange
GWU Bant Eldrazi
UG UG Infect
Personally, I'm not a fan of that list though. Too many lands. Too many Snappys.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.”
—Volrath
I could cut some snaps and lands. I'll have to do my own testing I suppose.
GBR Jund Midrange
GWU Bant Eldrazi
UG UG Infect
Went 3-1-1
My wins where vs Abzan, Tezzerator and UWR control. I drawed vs another UWR and lost to stupid boggles. Being slightly intoxicated might have cost me that game. I didn't shoal his t1 Boggle. That deck should just cease to exist nevertheless.
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Hooting Mandrills
Instants
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Disrupting Shoal
3 Thought Scour
3 Stubborn Denial
3 Simic Charm
2 Mana Leak
1 spell snare
1 Tarfire
4 Serum Visions
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Traverse the Ulvenwald
Lands
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Steam Vents
1 Breeding Pool
1 Stomping Ground
2 Island
1 Forest
3 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Izzet Staticaster2
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Dodecapod
2 Blood Moon
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Destruvtive revelry
1 Natural State
1 Pyroclasm
As you can see, i've cut down to 16 lands and ''shaved'' my flex slots for 3 main deck traverses. I figured that early Traverses can find me that land i was missing, therefore setting up my turn a bit better. This high count of instants/sorceries also helped flip Delver more consistsntly game 1, where he shines. Removing the 3 Traverse from the side gave me more boardign options so i could run that sweet 2 grudge/1 revelry/natural state package while opening up some meta slots. Dodecapod is still in the experimental phase. As i said in an earlier post, it could be that deal breaker vs Lilliana that Obstinate Baloth never quite was. It comes with it's flaws ofcourse. But ever since i lived the dream of a turn 3 Dodecapod offo fo Lilly, turn 4 huntmaster, i'm a little bit in love.
I've never missed the lone snapcaster i've been playing for a while. You're on the bench buddy.
Any thoughts?
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.”
—Volrath
Vs. linear decks (i.e. Bogles):
- you don't want too many threats and generally board some out
- you need to make your land drops and hold up mana for disruption
Traverse interferes with both of these plans. You can't just board out Traverse because running them main encourages you to shave your land count.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.”
—Volrath
4x Disrupting Shoal
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Logic Knot
3x Mana Leak
2x Simic Charm
4x Stubborn Denial
1x Tarfire
2x Thought Scour
Sorcery (8)
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Serum Visions
Land (17)
1x Breeding Pool
1x Forest
3x Island
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Steam Vents
1x Stomping Ground
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Seal of Fire
Creature (12)
4x Delver of Secrets
4x Hooting Mandrills
4x Tarmogoyf
2x Ancient Grudge
3x Blood Moon
1x Destructive Revelry
4x Huntmaster of the Fells
1x Natural State
2x Pyroclasm
2x Vapor Snag
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
I ended up playing a Traverse build and really liked it, the list is back a page. Every time I've played a Delver variant in the past I've always run into issues with threat density, but not so here. I ended up playing against UR Delver, Merfolk, Jund, UWR Delver, Abzan Company, and a couple others. I lost to UR Delver in the Swiss and Affinity in the finals.
The things I noticed were that even with Traverse 16 lands are too low, but I play tested it with 18 for awhile and that lead to flooding out, so I'm going to try 17. On the subject of Traverse, it was always great. Sometimes I had to fire it off as a late game card so it was dead early but I was usually able to get creatures out of it. On that note, creatures were also the hardest card type to get into the GY for Delirium in several matches. Goyf hands are especially prone to this since they eat paths which exile instead. On multiple occasions where I had 4 mana I was able to extract some extra value from Traverse at the expense of time by going Traverse/Snap/Traverse then picking up a Huntmaster, Redcap, or Goyf for the following turn (depending on G1 or not). This sequence worked best at 4 lands, or in G1 it also worked at 6 lands for a Goyf. At 5 lands, Traverse/4 drop worked better. I also liked Redcap quite a bit, I'm probably going to drop 1 Huntmaster for a 3/1 split because being able to Traverse for removal is nice.
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Hooting Mandrills
1 Snapcaster Mage
Sorcery:
4 Serum Visions
3 Gitaxian Probe
Instant:
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Thought Scour
4 Remand
4 Disrupting Shoal
2 Stubborn Denial
2 Spell Snare
1 Forked Bolt
1 Tarfire
1 Vapor Snag
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Steam Vents
2 Breeding Pool
1 Stomping Ground
1 Hinterland Harbor
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Forest
3 Ancient Grudge
2 Blood Moon
2 Firespout
1 Flame Slash
1 Deprive
2 Feed the Clan
1 Dismember
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Swerve
1 Engineered Explosives
Beat Burn, Infect, affinity, and grixis midrange (jace,Kalitas,discard). Burn games came down to big goyfs, and feed the clan getting there. Infect and affinity came down to quick delvers or mandrills backed up by shoals and spell snares. Grixis was the only 2-0, and was the result of a mulligan to 5 in game 1. Disrupting shoal and remands were MVPs in the match-up, they prevented snapcasters and terminate from dealing with the bigger threats. The deck felt great, but am still unsure about the deprive and swerve in the board. One thing that I learned is that spell snare is absurd in the meta right now, and would never go below 2. Dropping the two snapcasters also felt great, but liked having atleast 1.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
I like the look of Wrap in Vigor but I haven't tested it yet.
Or, you could just not overextend..
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.”
—Volrath
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
To be a little more helpfull.
Control decks that run Verdict usually run bolt, helix and path as their removal. Obviously path is the only card that can take care of your goyfs and monkeys. Keep your stubborn denials for those paths and don't over extend. If you follow this gameplan, you don't need clunky SB cards to deal with an otherwise winnable matchup.
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.”
—Volrath