Welcome to Established! RUG Delver was promoted from Deck Creation on the basis of numerous MTGO Daily finishes in the 4-0/3-1 bracket, as well as its GP Prague performance in the T16.
We made it to Established! I cleaned up the primer a little bit and added the list from GP Prague. Glad Delver is finally shaping up to be a major player in Modern again, between this version and the UR one.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
If you're thinking of Swerve i've been using Simic Charm as a one of to great effect. It 'counters' abrupt decays and electrolyze, 'swerves' lightning bolts during the combat step, and is able to bounce any problem creatures to boot, jsut being able to keep a wurmcoil from attackng one turn sometimes is enough. It really does it all, and doesnt suffer from being uncastable if they dont have a permanent to redirect to.
If you're thinking of Swerve i've been using Simic Charm as a one of to great effect. It 'counters' abrupt decays and electrolyze, 'swerves' lightning bolts during the combat step, and is able to bounce any problem creatures to boot, jsut being able to keep a wurmcoil from attackng one turn sometimes is enough. It really does it all, and doesnt suffer from being uncastable if they dont have a permanent to redirect to.
That sounds awesome, I'll try it out.
Edit to address the new ban list:
I think we should run some number of Spell Snare main to deal with Bitterblossom. Probably between 2 and 4. It also handles many of the format's best cards, like Dark Confidant and Tarmogoyf. Countering 2-drops is more relevant without Deathrite Shaman, too, because opponents can't easily ramp into 3 mana for Liliana of the Veil etc. on the second turn.
I've been testing BG with the new banlist and it's much better than when Shaman was legal. Tarmogoyf maxes out nearly every game, and Abrupt Decay allows them to simultaneously play and destroy Bitterblossom. Add Darkblast and Grisly Salvage into the mix and it seems like BG might be a serious problem for Delver. We get Goyfs too, but they can clean them up with Abrupt Decay, which is quickly shaping up to be the best card in the format with Shaman gone.
All that said, Deathrite Shaman forced us to run more burn spells in the main, and without it we can max out on counterspells. The banlist change might actually make RUG better, especially since Bitterblossom can max out our Tarmogoyfs. If the enchantment becomes a serious problem for us, I'm willing to bring out Ancient Grudge in favor of Destructive Revelry. The latter is more dynamic and even deals a couple extra points of damage. Between that and Spell Snare we should be set.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
I think we should run some number of Spell Snare main to deal with Bitterblossom. Probably between 2 and 4. It also handles many of the format's best cards, like Dark Confidant and Tarmogoyf. Countering 2-drops is more relevant without Deathrite Shaman, too, because opponents can't easily ramp into 3 mana for Liliana of the Veil etc. on the second turn.
I've been testing BG with the new banlist and it's much better than when Shaman was legal. Tarmogoyf maxes out nearly every game, and Abrupt Decay allows them to simultaneously play and destroy Bitterblossom. Add Darkblast and Grisly Salvage into the mix and it seems like BG might be a serious problem for Delver. We get Goyfs too, but they can clean them up with Abrupt Decay, which is quickly shaping up to be the best card in the format with Shaman gone.
All that said, Deathrite Shaman forced us to run more burn spells in the main, and without it we can max out on counterspells. The banlist change might actually make RUG better, especially since Bitterblossom can max out our Tarmogoyfs. If the enchantment becomes a serious problem for us, I'm willing to bring out Ancient Grudge in favor of Destructive Revelry. The latter is more dynamic and even deals a couple extra points of damage. Between that and Spell Snare we should be set.
BGx is not going to start running Darkblast and Grisly Salvage.
I was literally thinking the same thing. I really think it is something that should be tested. My list goes a little deeper into white with Giest of Saint Traft and Paths.
Even if this works, it's hardly RUG Delver. I'm anticipating a resurgence of 4/5-color aggro decks with Nacatl in the near future that play Geist and Path, but I don't think we can really afford to invest into white, especially not for a 3/3 with no Shroud. He dies to Lightning Bolt and gets blocked by most of Zoo's critters so he's marginally better than Goblin Guide here.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
I agree that the kitty would torque the archetype in a way that makes it no longer resemble a blue tempo deck. If you're running Nacatl, then you almost have to run lighning helix to negate the lifeloss, and casting those while trying to lay down shackles and cryptic is pretty much impossible. If you want to play the Tarmogoyf deck with spell pierces and delver, then RUG is the deck for you. If you want to play the Tarmogoyf deck with tribal flames and nacatl then 5c is the better choice. There's just no way to play a Nacatl version with counterspells because you have to devote spots to Path and Tribal Flames, so the playstyle of the deck is dramatically different. I think both have their strengths though.
I agree that the kitty would torque the archetype in a way that makes it no longer resemble a blue tempo deck. If you're running Nacatl, then you almost have to run lighning helix to negate the lifeloss, and casting those while trying to lay down shackles and cryptic is pretty much impossible. If you want to play the Tarmogoyf deck with spell pierces and delver, then RUG is the deck for you. If you want to play the Tarmogoyf deck with tribal flames and nacatl then 5c is the better choice. There's just no way to play a Nacatl version with counterspells because you have to devote spots to Path and Tribal Flames, so the playstyle of the deck is dramatically different. I think both have their strengths though.
Yeah this is what I was getting at. Still, here's a Counter-Cat deck from awhile back that resembles what people are talking about:
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
How good is Delver I've never played with it before. I understand a flipped Delver on turn 2/3 is an effecient clock, but after that it seems like a weak draw.
How good is Delver I've never played with it before. I understand a flipped Delver on turn 2/3 is an effecient clock, but after that it seems like a weak draw.
Yep, that's a nice stock list, the problem is that I don't really like Delver in modern because of how you usually lose if the manage to kill your threat (quite easy sometimes) or if you draw the "wrong" part of the deck (hands with like 2 lands, 2 mana leaks, 1 snare, 1 bolt, 1 Pierce) are not unusual. I do appreciate tempo decks though, anytime, anywhere.
That being said, I do LOVE the absolutely fantastic and consistent mana base, which lets you run a ton of islands and barely makes you take damage, besides rendering you almost immune to Blood Moon and being able to run it, along with Vedalken Shackles.
In a Zoo meta, it's not good (aggro>tempo), but if combo becomes more prevalent in response to Zoo spam, then it will be a nice choice.
If voice and finks became less popular then Forked Bolt would take it's place.
I can understand Voice, but I dont see Finks being a big problem for this deck.
Ill post my list in a little later just as a reference. Forked Bolt seems quite good.
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Tarmogoyf; a human insect's best friend.
Like I posted in that thread, lately I've just been on RUG Faeries, swapping out the Delvers for Spellstutter Sprite. But one card I've recently discovered is Swerve, which as a one-of in the board can really trounce Abrupt Decay decks.
Happy brewing, fellow Lhurgoyf lovers 8)
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
That sounds awesome, I'll try it out.
Edit to address the new ban list:
I think we should run some number of Spell Snare main to deal with Bitterblossom. Probably between 2 and 4. It also handles many of the format's best cards, like Dark Confidant and Tarmogoyf. Countering 2-drops is more relevant without Deathrite Shaman, too, because opponents can't easily ramp into 3 mana for Liliana of the Veil etc. on the second turn.
I've been testing BG with the new banlist and it's much better than when Shaman was legal. Tarmogoyf maxes out nearly every game, and Abrupt Decay allows them to simultaneously play and destroy Bitterblossom. Add Darkblast and Grisly Salvage into the mix and it seems like BG might be a serious problem for Delver. We get Goyfs too, but they can clean them up with Abrupt Decay, which is quickly shaping up to be the best card in the format with Shaman gone.
All that said, Deathrite Shaman forced us to run more burn spells in the main, and without it we can max out on counterspells. The banlist change might actually make RUG better, especially since Bitterblossom can max out our Tarmogoyfs. If the enchantment becomes a serious problem for us, I'm willing to bring out Ancient Grudge in favor of Destructive Revelry. The latter is more dynamic and even deals a couple extra points of damage. Between that and Spell Snare we should be set.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
BGx is not going to start running Darkblast and Grisly Salvage.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Even if this works, it's hardly RUG Delver. I'm anticipating a resurgence of 4/5-color aggro decks with Nacatl in the near future that play Geist and Path, but I don't think we can really afford to invest into white, especially not for a 3/3 with no Shroud. He dies to Lightning Bolt and gets blocked by most of Zoo's critters so he's marginally better than Goblin Guide here.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Yeah this is what I was getting at. Still, here's a Counter-Cat deck from awhile back that resembles what people are talking about:
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl
20 Spells
3 Bant Charm
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
4 Arid Mesa
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Horizon Canopy
2 Marsh Flats
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
2 Stomping Ground
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Temple Garden
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Flashfreeze
2 Gideon Jura
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Rule of Law
1 Tectonic Edge
3 Unified Will
Source: https://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/deck/796
I guess the GSZs could be Mana Leaks in some weird universe, but I still doubt this would work.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Delver is one of the best 4 1-drop creatures ever printed (along with Goblin Lackey, Mother of Runes, and Deathrite Shaman). It is an amazing card.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
That's what I meant, thanks.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Something along the lines of:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Vendilion Clique
Sorceries (6)
4 Serum Visions
2 Pillar of Flame
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Vapor Snag
2 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
4 Remand
4 Mana Leak
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
2 Breeding Pool
1 Stomping Ground
5 Island
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Spell Pierce
1 Pillar of Flame
2 Firespout
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Combust
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Sowing Salt
2 Tormod's Crypt
Something pretty basic like that.
Yep, that's a nice stock list, the problem is that I don't really like Delver in modern because of how you usually lose if the manage to kill your threat (quite easy sometimes) or if you draw the "wrong" part of the deck (hands with like 2 lands, 2 mana leaks, 1 snare, 1 bolt, 1 Pierce) are not unusual. I do appreciate tempo decks though, anytime, anywhere.
That being said, I do LOVE the absolutely fantastic and consistent mana base, which lets you run a ton of islands and barely makes you take damage, besides rendering you almost immune to Blood Moon and being able to run it, along with Vedalken Shackles.
In a Zoo meta, it's not good (aggro>tempo), but if combo becomes more prevalent in response to Zoo spam, then it will be a nice choice.
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
Sorceries (10)
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
2 Pillar of Flame
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Vapor Snag
2 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
4 Remand
4 Mana Leak
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Steam Vents
2 Breeding Pool
1 Stomping Ground
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Grim Lavamancer
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Vendilion Clique
Sorceries (6)
4 Serum Visions
2 Pillar of Flame
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Vapor Snag
2 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
4 Remand
4 Mana Leak
Lands (20)
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Steam Vents
2 Breeding Pool
1 Stomping Ground
4 Island
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Spell Pierce
1 Pillar of Flame
2 Firespout
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Combust
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Sowing Salt
2 Tormod's Crypt
Voice of Resurgence, Kitchen Finks, Murderous Redcap.
Also still kills things like Dark Confidant, Goblin Guide, Delver of Secrets, Noble Heiarch, Birds of Paradise, etc while being able to go to the dome if need be.
If voice and finks became less popular then Forked Bolt would take it's place.
I can understand Voice, but I dont see Finks being a big problem for this deck.
Ill post my list in a little later just as a reference. Forked Bolt seems quite good.