the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
I'm not super interested in Drake because unlike Hoots, it dies to Decay and Push. I think the ability to dodge those is pretty big. Also, growing the thing feels pretty tough, although in the article you're saying turn 4, which seems okay. I just don't see enough upside to drop the green guys, personally.
I do like that you're reincluding Shoal in your builds, which has been quite good for me lately. I think Echoing Truth is interesting, too, but would invite you, should you choose to revisit RUG anytime soon, to try out Simic Charm again. It's solid against the delve creatures in two ways and is a clean answer to Thing in the Ice. And it's tons of fun as a combat trick, although you already know that.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I can't say I'm pleased to see you and must warn you I may have to do something about it.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: URDelver
Modern: UGRDelver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
I'm not super interested in Drake because unlike Hoots, it dies to Decay and Push. I think the ability to dodge those is pretty big. Also, growing the thing feels pretty tough, although in the article you're saying turn 4, which seems okay. I just don't see enough upside to drop the green guys, personally.
I do like that you're reincluding Shoal in your builds, which has been quite good for me lately. I think Echoing Truth is interesting, too, but would invite you, should you choose to revisit RUG anytime soon, to try out Simic Charm again. It's solid against the delve creatures in two ways and is a clean answer to Thing in the Ice. And it's tons of fun as a combat trick, although you already know that.
I would definitely play SC over Truth if I was in green, but as I said in the article I don't think it's close to worth it to dip into green for graveyard creatures right now. They are just better in other colors, and those colors also offer superior utility. Going Temur = losing to RIP unless you dedicate substantial sideboard space to sidestepping it (i.e. with Huntmaster/Hazoret), but adding insult to injury, Temur also all but locks you out of the best threat for sidestepping it (Crackling).
Push/Decay evasion not really an issue when 4 Snapcaster plus the Crackling package puts those decks away regardless. Biggest draw to Goyf IMO is actually the equity it offers against Burn.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Beat Mill, which feels like a real deck lately. Games were pretty uninteresting, went 2-0 on the back of T2 Mandrills cast for 1 and Stubborn Denials for the relevant stuff. Also made sure to delve away most creatures to keep the Crypt Incursions manageable. Pretty easy, and overall this seems like a fine matchup, although I've lost to it before.
Beat GR Monsters: picture Ponza, minus Stone Rains, plus Finks, Thrun, Inferno Titan. Went 2-1. It's something of a nemesis deck for me at the store since it's capable of T2 Blood Moon when I'm on the draw, which is rough, and Inferno Titan is ggs. Anger of the Gods in both postboard games was at least a 3-1, which was great, and managed to exile the front half of a Kitchen Finks in one of them. I stole a page from Pauper UR Delver and boarded out all 4 Delvers, blanking his Bolts and setting up to play reactively for the first few turns before dropping a threat. And it worked. Eventually, Simic Charm pumping Mandrills and Bolt closed a tight game three out.
I lost to old school Affinity 0-2 and didn't feel bad about it. My opponent is masterful with the deck because he's been playing it since before I was playing Magic. Mulled to 6 both games and ended up keeping 5 lands and Bolt game 2. I was on the stall-and-find-Huntmaster plan and it was pretty close until my opponent drew Experimental Frenzy, which absolutely rifled through his deck. He says he's playing this in place of Etched Champion because he finds Champion too slow these days, which is just fine by me. Theoretically I can beat a Frenzy. Feels like a tough matchup and I feel like I'll have to go through the old Modern Nexus articles for advice on this one.
Beat 8-Rack 2-0. My opponent is a dedicated Thoughtseize player, but he's almost always on Jund or BG, so it was odd to see him drop a Smallpox on me. Still won. I used to play 8-Rack and was reminded of the huge limitation of the deck, which is that by turn 4 you're at the mercy of the top of your deck, and if your opponent has secured a board advantage, it's hard to come back. Again, Mandrills was a beast here because their deck fills the grave and Fatal Push misses it.
All-stars for the night: Mandrills, Simic Charm, and Destructive Revelry, which I played in every sideboard game.
Deck feels great and Disrupting Shoal is fun to cast. I think I only did once tonight, and I boarded them out in many of the matchups. But having a huge tempo play game 1 feels worth it, and then you set up to play a grindier game postboard. Between the online practice room and 2 Modern Mondays, I'm like 37-11 in 2019 so far. I finally feel like I've gotten enough reps to have a plan in most matchups.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I can't say I'm pleased to see you and must warn you I may have to do something about it.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: URDelver
Modern: UGRDelver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
Has anyone thought about putting Sphinx of Foresight into the deck as a Delver flip enabler on turn 2? Granted, you’d want to run probably 2 colors since you wouldn’t want to fetch on turn 1, but I think it’d be interesting. You would want to play 4 obviously to maximize their utility.
Played along side looting and disrupting shoal, it would give you the ability to pitch them after they served their use(since a 4 cmc card isn’t great for a delver deck), but they could also be hard cast as a 4 drop that doesn’t utilize the graveyard in slower games.
Has anyone thought about putting Sphinx of Foresight into the deck as a Delver flip enabler on turn 2? Granted, you’d want to run probably 2 colors since you wouldn’t want to fetch on turn 1, but I think it’d be interesting. You would want to play 4 obviously to maximize their utility.
Played along side looting and disrupting shoal, it would give you the ability to pitch them after they served their use(since a 4 cmc card isn’t great for a delver deck), but they could also be hard cast as a 4 drop that doesn’t utilize the graveyard in slower games.
We don't actually care so much about Shoaling for 4. Sphinxes on top of the deck don't flip Delvers, so I'd say that effect is a wash. Plus, you have to open Delver and opponents have to not have removal for that plan to work out. And then we're stuck with a 4cmc creature in hand! I don't see it working out. Drake is much more solid as a post-board plan in that curve slot.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
I realize that shoaling for 4 cmc is not the ideal scenario, I was just trying to point out that it could have a use other than simply being a 4 cmc creature and/or a free scry mechanic (have to look at all the possibilities, even if they aren’t ideal).
As for setting up delvers, it could enable a flip on turn 2. If you get to scry 3 on your first upkeep and one of those 3 is an instant/sorcery then you can set that card up in the right spot to flip your delver that you play on turn 1.
Again, this isn’t something that I am heavily considering, but the thought experiment is interesting in my opinion.
By the way, I don’t think you’ve thoroughly read the card since it states “If this card is in your opening hand, you may reveal it. If you do, you may Scry 3 at the beginning of your first upkeep”.
It has nothing to do with Sphinx’s being on the top of our deck.
I think Ashton is saying that Sphinx on top of the library doesn't flip Delver, so even if you add it in for all the obvious reasons, unless you're replacing some other threat with it, you're hurting the deck by decreasing the instant and sorcery count. That's my issue with it. I'm not excited to cast it as a creature, not excited to draw it. So it's great in the opener, maybe, depending on your fetchland situation, and not great most of the rest of the time.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I can't say I'm pleased to see you and must warn you I may have to do something about it.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: URDelver
Modern: UGRDelver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
I was playing Izzet Phoenix for a little, I first put it together because it felt like it played in a Legacy style. I want to move away from Faithless looting, and Temur Delver is another deck that seems to play in a legacy style, and I like the range of cards that the colors provide. I really like this deck due to the ability to utilizeDisrupting Shoal, but I was wondering what people thought about the balance of other counterspells in this build. Also, My sideboard is mostly the same as the izzet phoenix sideboard. Ral, Izzet Viceroy seems to serve a similar purpose in this deck, providing some strength in the late game. He also plays well with Disrupting Shoal and Hooting Mandrills, regarding the exile zone.
Your list looks a lot like what those on the shoal plan might run. Just some food for thought,
Imo I think we all prefer mana leak over spell pierce. Snapcaster is considered a three+ drop in this deck. You might find that running 4 is a bit overkill especially when pretty much bolt is the only proactive spell we have.(though simic charm is nice.)
Those of us on the looting build enjoy it as this deck doesn't have great answers to resolved spells so digging through our deck for an optimum line is our best line. We desperately need a better removal spell than dismember. We came so close with that new split card but it only hits flyers
Anyway. Enjoy brewing and I hope you have fun!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: MONKEY GROW & Amulet Titan Legacy: RG Lands EDH: Merieke Ri Berit Esper Good stuff
Is there any feeling in Modern as good as crushing Tron? Today I had a game where, on the draw against an obvious natural Tron, I had an unflipped Delver out and countered a Karn with a naked Stubborn Denial. Delver flipped the next turn, and then I bashed away while countering relevant stuff. In other words, exactly what this deck is supposed to do. Feels great.
My favorite sideboard tech lately has been Delay. It's such a boon against the Colonnade decks and matchups where I want to board out the Shoals. Tron, Burn, Control, BGx, Amulet, etc. Tons of applications.
I can't say I'm pleased to see you and must warn you I may have to do something about it.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: URDelver
Modern: UGRDelver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
Your list looks a lot like what those on the shoal plan might run. Just some food for thought, Imo I think we all prefer mana leak over spell pierce. Snapcaster is considered a three+ drop in this deck. You might find that running 4 is a bit overkill especially when pretty much bolt is the only proactive spell we have.(though simic charm is nice.)
Those of us on the looting build enjoy it as this deck doesn't have great answers to resolved spells so digging through our deck for an optimum line is our best line. We desperately need a better removal spell than dismember. We came so close with that new split card but it only hits flyers
Anyway. Enjoy brewing and I hope you have fun!
Not me. I have actually gone to 4 Pierce in my UR build. They are amazing. I do think though that in green it's hard to justify Pierce over Denial unless you play lots of one-drops.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Not me. I have actually gone to 4 Pierce in my UR build. They are amazing. I do think though that in green it's hard to justify Pierce over Denial unless you play lots of one-drops.
Could you post somewhere your updated list (or just write down the changes)?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Decks played: Modern:
0 Affinity;
URG Delver
URGW Countercats
(Here you can find some video contents about Countercats and Temur Delver decks)
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Interesting card. Hope keeps rising
EDIT: And we get also cindervines for side. pretty happy!
Modern:
Here's our card. This was it. And it's ruined by conditional requirements.
collision // colossus
Modern: MONKEY GROW & Amulet Titan
Legacy: RG Lands
EDH: Merieke Ri Berit Esper Good stuff
http://modernnexus.com/ur-it-rebuilding-delver-salamander-drake/
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Salamander Drake
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Crackling Drake
Instants (24)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Thought Scour
4 Opt
4 Disrupting Shoal
3 Spell Pierce
2 Mana Leak
1 Abrade
1 Dismember
1 Echoing Truth
4 Serum Visions
Lands (18)
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Spirebluff Canal
3 Steam Vents
4 Island
1 Mountain
3 Damping Sphere
2 Blood Moon
3 Crackling Drake
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Abrade
2 Anger of the Gods
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
I do like that you're reincluding Shoal in your builds, which has been quite good for me lately. I think Echoing Truth is interesting, too, but would invite you, should you choose to revisit RUG anytime soon, to try out Simic Charm again. It's solid against the delve creatures in two ways and is a clean answer to Thing in the Ice. And it's tons of fun as a combat trick, although you already know that.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
Push/Decay evasion not really an issue when 4 Snapcaster plus the Crackling package puts those decks away regardless. Biggest draw to Goyf IMO is actually the equity it offers against Burn.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Beat Mill, which feels like a real deck lately. Games were pretty uninteresting, went 2-0 on the back of T2 Mandrills cast for 1 and Stubborn Denials for the relevant stuff. Also made sure to delve away most creatures to keep the Crypt Incursions manageable. Pretty easy, and overall this seems like a fine matchup, although I've lost to it before.
Beat GR Monsters: picture Ponza, minus Stone Rains, plus Finks, Thrun, Inferno Titan. Went 2-1. It's something of a nemesis deck for me at the store since it's capable of T2 Blood Moon when I'm on the draw, which is rough, and Inferno Titan is ggs. Anger of the Gods in both postboard games was at least a 3-1, which was great, and managed to exile the front half of a Kitchen Finks in one of them. I stole a page from Pauper UR Delver and boarded out all 4 Delvers, blanking his Bolts and setting up to play reactively for the first few turns before dropping a threat. And it worked. Eventually, Simic Charm pumping Mandrills and Bolt closed a tight game three out.
I lost to old school Affinity 0-2 and didn't feel bad about it. My opponent is masterful with the deck because he's been playing it since before I was playing Magic. Mulled to 6 both games and ended up keeping 5 lands and Bolt game 2. I was on the stall-and-find-Huntmaster plan and it was pretty close until my opponent drew Experimental Frenzy, which absolutely rifled through his deck. He says he's playing this in place of Etched Champion because he finds Champion too slow these days, which is just fine by me. Theoretically I can beat a Frenzy. Feels like a tough matchup and I feel like I'll have to go through the old Modern Nexus articles for advice on this one.
Beat 8-Rack 2-0. My opponent is a dedicated Thoughtseize player, but he's almost always on Jund or BG, so it was odd to see him drop a Smallpox on me. Still won. I used to play 8-Rack and was reminded of the huge limitation of the deck, which is that by turn 4 you're at the mercy of the top of your deck, and if your opponent has secured a board advantage, it's hard to come back. Again, Mandrills was a beast here because their deck fills the grave and Fatal Push misses it.
All-stars for the night: Mandrills, Simic Charm, and Destructive Revelry, which I played in every sideboard game.
Deck feels great and Disrupting Shoal is fun to cast. I think I only did once tonight, and I boarded them out in many of the matchups. But having a huge tempo play game 1 feels worth it, and then you set up to play a grindier game postboard. Between the online practice room and 2 Modern Mondays, I'm like 37-11 in 2019 so far. I finally feel like I've gotten enough reps to have a plan in most matchups.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
Modern: MONKEY GROW & Amulet Titan
Legacy: RG Lands
EDH: Merieke Ri Berit Esper Good stuff
Played along side looting and disrupting shoal, it would give you the ability to pitch them after they served their use(since a 4 cmc card isn’t great for a delver deck), but they could also be hard cast as a 4 drop that doesn’t utilize the graveyard in slower games.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
As for setting up delvers, it could enable a flip on turn 2. If you get to scry 3 on your first upkeep and one of those 3 is an instant/sorcery then you can set that card up in the right spot to flip your delver that you play on turn 1.
Again, this isn’t something that I am heavily considering, but the thought experiment is interesting in my opinion.
It has nothing to do with Sphinx’s being on the top of our deck.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
I can see not being excited to cast it or see it, but there are worse cards to draw late game than a 4 mana 4/4 flyer.
I was playing Izzet Phoenix for a little, I first put it together because it felt like it played in a Legacy style. I want to move away from Faithless looting, and Temur Delver is another deck that seems to play in a legacy style, and I like the range of cards that the colors provide. I really like this deck due to the ability to utilizeDisrupting Shoal, but I was wondering what people thought about the balance of other counterspells in this build. Also, My sideboard is mostly the same as the izzet phoenix sideboard. Ral, Izzet Viceroy seems to serve a similar purpose in this deck, providing some strength in the late game. He also plays well with Disrupting Shoal and Hooting Mandrills, regarding the exile zone.
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Hooting Mandrills
4 Tarmogoyf
4 snapcaster mage
2 nimble obstructionist
SPELLS
4 thought scour
4 lightning bolt
4 serum visions
2 tarfire
4 Disrupting Shoal
2 spell pierce
2 stubborn denial
2 Simic Charm
1 spellsnare
2 steam vents
1 Breeding Pool
2 island
1 mountain
1 Forest
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Wooded Foothills
4 scalding tarn
1 stomping ground
1 ral, izzet viceroy
2 cindervines
2 alpine moon
2 surgical extraction
2 anger of the gods
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Crackling Drake
1 engineered explosives
GWUBRDraft my Old Border Nostalgia Cube! and/or The Little Pauper Cube That Could!RBUWG
Modern:WDeath & TaxesW | RUGRUG DelverRUG
Your list looks a lot like what those on the shoal plan might run. Just some food for thought,
Imo I think we all prefer mana leak over spell pierce. Snapcaster is considered a three+ drop in this deck. You might find that running 4 is a bit overkill especially when pretty much bolt is the only proactive spell we have.(though simic charm is nice.)
Those of us on the looting build enjoy it as this deck doesn't have great answers to resolved spells so digging through our deck for an optimum line is our best line. We desperately need a better removal spell than dismember. We came so close with that new split card but it only hits flyers
Anyway. Enjoy brewing and I hope you have fun!
Modern: MONKEY GROW & Amulet Titan
Legacy: RG Lands
EDH: Merieke Ri Berit Esper Good stuff
My favorite sideboard tech lately has been Delay. It's such a boon against the Colonnade decks and matchups where I want to board out the Shoals. Tron, Burn, Control, BGx, Amulet, etc. Tons of applications.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Could you post somewhere your updated list (or just write down the changes)?
Modern: