I'm not sure what Modern Humans look like in Modern, but you should just go full Mono-White Humans if you're playing this list. There's no reason to play Soul's Attendent and Soul Warden.
Is budget the biggest reason that most people here are playing the martyr/Hawk build? Im geniuinly curious since I havent had any success with it.
Im looking forward to your comments, both on the list/data/other things!
One benefit to Hawk/Martyr may be a better Affinity matchup (noticed you mentioned a negative match there). I just played a match just now and went 2-0 (didn't even draw SB cards game 2). Between the Hawks and Spec Procession, you can just block cranial-plated evasion robots for days. I haven't played an Archangel build, but I imagine they are a bit slow to compete in that matchup.
Great discussion. I'm excited to suss through your data.
I'm an advocate for Martyr but not Hawk. I think a lot of people stay with Hawk because it's always been an underrated card and there's a lot of memory of that. It's not the best at its job any more, but it was at one point.
As for Archangel, Everyone who has played with or against her in the deck has come away telling me she's the best card in the deck. I would guess budget and wanting to run a 20 land deck keeps them away.
Still haven't fully tested that side-board. Last time I took it to FNM, I had Baneslayers in place of the Archangels. I got 0-4 due to the sheer amount of Titan Shift, Control, Bant Eldrazi and BXX Death Shadow decks in my lgs. There's only a lone RDW in the shop and I couldn't even get matched with them for the life of me.
EDIT: I also tried running the classic Squadron Hawk variant, however, I don't have any of the Mirrodin swords, so those birds rely solely on Honor of the Pure. It's bad. Those birds kept falling from the sky like they were flies.
Is it just me or the current meta of Shadows and heavy single removals is currently bad for our Soul Sisters? I'm starting to feel it's time to shelf this and stick with my Infect until such a time a card get's printed that boosts our deck.
Eerie Interlude / Ghostway - Anti-sweepers. All ETB's will re-activate and will also mean my creatures can attack again on my next turn since most of the time, sweepers are cast during my opponent's turn. Downside is if I don't have this on hand and I get sweeped, it may potentially be a dead card in those scenarios.
Grand Abolisher - Anti-counters or anti-EOT-removals. It's a no brainer against heavy counter-and-go decks. However, the main reason I'm starting to wonder if I should include this main-board is because of too many times my Pridemate getting Pathed or Pushed at EOT. It's really annoying.
Hi friends, new guy in the thread over here.
I want to know if someone could help me, I'm new in the Modern format (used to play Casual only) and don't know if this deck is "Martyr-Serra heavy-dependent" or not. That build only swarm tokens and use Archangel of Thune, Intangible Virtue and Ajani's Pridemate to exploit this swarm. Its a viable build?
Hi friends, new guy in the thread over here.
I want to know if someone could help me, I'm new in the Modern format (used to play Casual only) and don't know if this deck is "Martyr-Serra heavy-dependent" or not. That build only swarm tokens and use Archangel of Thune, Intangible Virtue and Ajani's Pridemate to exploit this swarm. Its a viable build?
Oh god, it already looks like it's going to be an annoying "poking" deck with all those tokens. I've been at the receiving end of Bitterblossom as well and the Lifegain was awesome. Only reason I lost is because my opponent had SWAP. -_-
Edit: Dafuq....why does it say that your deck is my deck? lol
Tonight I went monowhite (no Archangels) instead of black splash for lingering souls, going 2-1.
Match 1: Eldrazi Tron (1-2)
Game 1: I closed out Game 1 fairly quickly. Ghostquarters were the man of the game.
Game 2: Chalice on 1 + Ensnaring Bridge, he drew Ugin before I drew disenchant.
Game 3: Much of the same.
Match 2: Burn. (2-0)
Game 1: Auriok Champion MVP.
Game 2: Game went something like 48 turns, I won with 6 life left.
Match 3: Bant Eldrazi. (2-1)
Game 1: Closed Game 1 fairly quickly with 3 spectral processions over 3 turns.
Game 2: He brought in engineered explosives from the side, I committed too early, lost board, learnt a lesson. Died to eldrazi beats.
Game 3: He scooped when I dropped my 3rd Ascendant.
Much better than last week, I'm getting a lot more confident with my play and learning a lot of lessons. Still waiting on the day I can grab the Archangels though, I've learnt that if I lose my presence early, I just can't come back with the squadron hawk plan with my current level of knowledge/skill.
As a side note, there is a lot of Tron/Eldrazi in this meta, which I'm beginning to feel lost against (especially Tron). Does anyone have any advice for this matchup?
Here's a deck I've been messing with on and off. Only had a chance to play it once but managed to get top 8 out of 30 people. It was so long ago I can't even remember my match ups. Just remember a lot of very close games only really losing badly to scapeshift.
I love ayli in this deck. She can really take out your opponents threats like nothing and she is a solid blocker on top of it.
Cliffhaven vampire is really nice too. He can win games by just being there but is a great attacker on top of it especially with honor of the pure out.
I used to run bitterblossom but found it too slow.
Never had a chance to use atheroes but it seems like it should be solid.
Cliffhaven Vampire can die to Fatal push... seems bad man. At that point you might as well take them out and put in archangels. If they dont have a response to archangel it's an absolute blowout. Opposed to cliffhaven which compared to archangel just seems, "meh"
Cliffhaven Vampire can die to Fatal push... seems bad man. At that point you might as well take them out and put in archangels. If they dont have a response to archangel it's an absolute blowout. Opposed to cliffhaven which compared to archangel just seems, "meh"
The problem with that is then I have to cut other stuff for more lands as I only run 19 so even having a 4cmc card is pushing it. I used to run angel in an older build and just never really got her to go off. If she she cost the same as cliffhaven id replace him in a heart beat. I'd almost rather cut some other stuff for protection like brave the elements if being pushed is my biggest concern.
I've messed around with the idea of replacing cliffhaven with underworld coinsmith and Im sure I won't stop thinking of it till I actually try it. So many of my games ended with my opponent at 5 or less life and I feel like he can close out a game at that point easily
I enjoy adding a touch of janky nonsense to my decks.
Hi, sorry to interrupt. I've played against a few Soul Sisters decks and was thinking about putting one together for myself. I found the Budget Magic Stake Sisters deck and it looks interesting (and fits my budget) but I was wondering if that's the current best version or if there have been updates and ideas for a better budget SS deck. If this is the wrong place to ask, I'm sorry. Thanks for any help you can provide
Hi, sorry to interrupt. I've played against a few Soul Sisters decks and was thinking about putting one together for myself. I found the Budget Magic Stake Sisters deck and it looks interesting (and fits my budget) but I was wondering if that's the current best version or if there have been updates and ideas for a better budget SS deck. If this is the wrong place to ask, I'm sorry. Thanks for any help you can provide
It's a very good version of SS to start in. Only reason why I haven't converted my Mono-W build to that is because I'd like to stick to what I've gotten used to and come to love all these years. Like some form of 'loyalty' to it in a way.
Stake Sisters seem to have a better removal game, better sustain and adaptability as opposed to Mono-W builds. At the expense of less explosive hands (however, Norin himself can get out of hand if left un-checked). Considering how bad the current Modern environment is for our deck, you're really better off with Stake Sisters or those WB variants that I've seen recently. Mono-W just won't cut it, or to be more precise, we have a harder time with the current meta.
It's a very good version of SS to start in. Only reason why I haven't converted my Mono-W build to that is because I'd like to stick to what I've gotten used to and come to love all these years. Like some form of 'loyalty' to it in a way.
Stake Sisters seem to have a better removal game, better sustain and adaptability as opposed to Mono-W builds. At the expense of less explosive hands (however, Norin himself can get out of hand if left un-checked). Considering how bad the current Modern environment is for our deck, you're really better off with Stake Sisters or those WB variants that I've seen recently. Mono-W just won't cut it, or to be more precise, we have a harder time with the current meta.
Thanks for the info! I want to dig around a bit, but it looks like I might land on this Boros version. I definitely understand what you mean though. I often get attached to my favorite version of decks and want to stick with them, even if others are going in a different direction. I definitely like G/B Elves the most though many prefer G/W or Abzan.
"I've messed around with the idea of replacing cliffhaven with underworld coinsmith and Im sure I won't stop thinking of it till I actually try it. So many of my games ended with my opponent at 5 or less life and I feel like he can close out a game at that point easily"
Ooph, that underworld coinsmith is such a bad trap I don't even know where to begin.
"I've messed around with the idea of replacing cliffhaven with underworld coinsmith and Im sure I won't stop thinking of it till I actually try it. So many of my games ended with my opponent at 5 or less life and I feel like he can close out a game at that point easily"
Ooph, that underworld coinsmith is such a bad trap I don't even know where to begin.
"I've messed around with the idea of replacing cliffhaven with underworld coinsmith and Im sure I won't stop thinking of it till I actually try it. So many of my games ended with my opponent at 5 or less life and I feel like he can close out a game at that point easily"
Ooph, that underworld coinsmith is such a bad trap I don't even know where to begin.
haha yeah I know it probably won't be as good as I think it would be. My problem is that I really feel there is untapped potential with adding black I just can't find it though. I don't want to add anything mono black because then martyr gets weaker and honor won't work as well then. But if I cut her then ascendant won't be as explosive. Too many card choices lol
I think if you're trying to use lifegain to fuel killing your opponent, Vizkopa Guildmage is your best option. However, I think Blood Artist/Zulaport Cutthroat is a better route if you're trying to drain. It makes them less likely to kill your beaters and leads to more triggers and the ability to attack aggressively.
I've not used Athreos in Sisters but have used it in Martyr to mixed results. Seems like we pressure life total more often to make it relevant, which could be worthwhile. Pros will always tell you choice cards are awful, though. YMMV. When Ayli works, she's amazing, I've just never seen her work consistently.
I've never seen stake sisters before and will watch the videos but I'm not a fan as it looks to try to combine Norin sisters with pay off cards that aren't better than the core cards of either the Norin or traditional builds, which are just as cheap.
In go wide strategies like this, it seems like the payoff cards of the builds, Outnumber and Burn at the Stake, are very "win more," because they're only good if you've flooded the board, and you're already going to win if you flood the board. It seems like Outnumber is very often going to be a bolt that can't hit your opponent or it's going to be too late to be effective and allow you to remove creatures in games where you would already win. At that point, Sunlance or Condemn is probably better (though Lightning Helix would be the best call, but isn't a budget card per se. You'd probably get more game from Stoke the Flames.) As for Stoke, Paying 5 mana for 9-15 damage or so is a very good finisher and does give the deck a second way to win, which is nice. However, I think Brave the Elements would do the same thing by getting in your Parish and Pridemate while also having the flexibility to protect your creatures.
Grand Abolisher[/u] - Anti-counters or anti-EOT-removals. It's a no brainer against heavy counter-and-go decks. However, the main reason I'm starting to wonder if I should include this main-board is because of too many times my Pridemate getting Pathed or Pushed at EOT. It's really annoying.
In a vacuum, it feels like Abolisher would help that but it doesn't. Instead, they just deal with Abolisher on their turn and then all you've done is traded a card one for one. If they don't spend the removal, then all they have to do is deal with a 2/2. There will be games where they unwisely spend their only removal on it to try to get to your Pridemate, but in 95% of games, it will be a Pridemate with no upside. The way to avoid being blown out by removal is to avoid keeping hands with only one threat.
Sorry if I seem down on good ideas here, but try them out. Enough of us are getting reps with more traditonal builds that it only makes sense to Try Everything (enjoy having that song in your head now.)
It's all good, BoBoCTiberius. Feedback like your's is actually what I need to hear. A small part of me is also thinking of the same thing with regards to the Abolisher. Do you think Ethersworn Canonist falls under the same category?
It's all good, BoBoCTiberius. Feedback like your's is actually what I need to hear. A small part of me is also thinking of the same thing with regards to the Abolisher. Do you think Ethersworn Canonist falls under the same category?
I would never mainboard Canonist the way you're suggesting you might mainboard Abolisher. I think the lock Canonist gives is good against the decks it's good against - but I do prefer Eidolon of Rhetoric, since it can't be Bolted and can't be Pushed without work.
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I went 0-3 on our Modern night, but that's ok as it was my first time playing the deck.
0-2 Tron.
Tron did Tron things. Turn 3 natural Tron into Oblivion Stone wiped the board, Turn 5 or 6 Karn into Ugin.
Second game went mostly the same.
0-2 BW Tokens.
Game 1 was a stall fest but I couldn't deal with Elspeth, Knight-Errant before she ultied for the emblem.
Game 2 I got flooded and overrun.
1-2 Chord.
Game 1 I didn't draw either procession or souls and died to resto angel beats.
Game 2 I got the nut draw and won turn 4 or 5.
Game 3 I got Kiki Combo'd.
Had fun, good night, definitely need to get some reps in on the deck and I need to look at some better ways to dealing with walkers.
3 Soul's Attendant
4 Soul Warden
3 Champion of the Parish
1 Mikaeus, the Lunarch
1 Thraben Inspector
1 Student of Warfare
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
2 Knight of the White Orchid
2 Accorder Paladin
3 Ranger of Eos
4 Gather the Townsfolk
4 Path to Exile
3 Brave the Elements
4 Honor of the Pure
Lands (21)
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Windbrisk Heights
13 Plains
Side Deck (15)
3 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Stony Silence
3 Gideon's Intervention
2 Rest in Peace
2 Riders of Gavony
1 Condemn
2 Blessed Alliance
One benefit to Hawk/Martyr may be a better Affinity matchup (noticed you mentioned a negative match there). I just played a match just now and went 2-0 (didn't even draw SB cards game 2). Between the Hawks and Spec Procession, you can just block cranial-plated evasion robots for days. I haven't played an Archangel build, but I imagine they are a bit slow to compete in that matchup.
I'm an advocate for Martyr but not Hawk. I think a lot of people stay with Hawk because it's always been an underrated card and there's a lot of memory of that. It's not the best at its job any more, but it was at one point.
As for Archangel, Everyone who has played with or against her in the deck has come away telling me she's the best card in the deck. I would guess budget and wanting to run a 20 land deck keeps them away.
EDIT: I also tried running the classic Squadron Hawk variant, however, I don't have any of the Mirrodin swords, so those birds rely solely on Honor of the Pure. It's bad. Those birds kept falling from the sky like they were flies.
Is it just me or the current meta of Shadows and heavy single removals is currently bad for our Soul Sisters? I'm starting to feel it's time to shelf this and stick with my Infect until such a time a card get's printed that boosts our deck.
4 Soul Warden
4 Soul's Attendant
4 Serra Ascendant
4 Ajani's Pridemate
4 Ranger of Eos
4 Archangel of Thune
Non-creatures (13)
4 Path to Exile
4 Spectral Procession
3 Honor of the Pure
1 Unmake
1 Return to the Ranks
4 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Flooded Strand
4 Windbrisk Heights
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
8 Plains
Side-board (15)
4 Auriok Champion
4 Celestial Purge
3 Rest in Peace
2 Return to the Ranks
2 War Priest of Thune
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Stony Silence
3 Eerie Interlude
4 Grand Abolisher
4 Martyr of Sands
Breakdown for some of the more unorthodox cards:
Eerie Interlude / Ghostway - Anti-sweepers. All ETB's will re-activate and will also mean my creatures can attack again on my next turn since most of the time, sweepers are cast during my opponent's turn. Downside is if I don't have this on hand and I get sweeped, it may potentially be a dead card in those scenarios.
Grand Abolisher - Anti-counters or anti-EOT-removals. It's a no brainer against heavy counter-and-go decks. However, the main reason I'm starting to wonder if I should include this main-board is because of too many times my Pridemate getting Pathed or Pushed at EOT. It's really annoying.
I want to know if someone could help me, I'm new in the Modern format (used to play Casual only) and don't know if this deck is "Martyr-Serra heavy-dependent" or not. That build only swarm tokens and use Archangel of Thune, Intangible Virtue and Ajani's Pridemate to exploit this swarm. Its a viable build?
4x Ghost Quarter
4x Isolated Chapel
2x Swamp
2x Windbrisk Heights
4x Path to Exile
4x Bitterblossom
4x Lingering Souls
4x Spectral Procession
3x Intangible Virtue
2x Zealous Persecution
1x Proclamation of Rebirth
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4x Soul Warden
4x Soul's Attendant
2x Archangel of Thune
2x Eidolon of Rhetoric
2x Oblivion Ring
2x Orzhov Charm
2x Relic of Progenitus
2x Stony Silence
2x Thoughtseize
1x Celestial Purge
1x Extirpate
1x Kataki, War's Wage
Oh god, it already looks like it's going to be an annoying "poking" deck with all those tokens. I've been at the receiving end of Bitterblossom as well and the Lifegain was awesome. Only reason I lost is because my opponent had SWAP. -_-
Edit: Dafuq....why does it say that your deck is my deck? lol
Tonight I went monowhite (no Archangels) instead of black splash for lingering souls, going 2-1.
Match 1: Eldrazi Tron (1-2)
Game 1: I closed out Game 1 fairly quickly. Ghostquarters were the man of the game.
Game 2: Chalice on 1 + Ensnaring Bridge, he drew Ugin before I drew disenchant.
Game 3: Much of the same.
Match 2: Burn. (2-0)
Game 1: Auriok Champion MVP.
Game 2: Game went something like 48 turns, I won with 6 life left.
Match 3: Bant Eldrazi. (2-1)
Game 1: Closed Game 1 fairly quickly with 3 spectral processions over 3 turns.
Game 2: He brought in engineered explosives from the side, I committed too early, lost board, learnt a lesson. Died to eldrazi beats.
Game 3: He scooped when I dropped my 3rd Ascendant.
Much better than last week, I'm getting a lot more confident with my play and learning a lot of lessons. Still waiting on the day I can grab the Archangels though, I've learnt that if I lose my presence early, I just can't come back with the squadron hawk plan with my current level of knowledge/skill.
As a side note, there is a lot of Tron/Eldrazi in this meta, which I'm beginning to feel lost against (especially Tron). Does anyone have any advice for this matchup?
4x Ajani's Pridemate
1x Athreos, God of Passage
3x Auriok Champion
2x Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim
2x Cliffhaven Vampire
2x Martyr of Sands
4x Serra Ascendant
4x Soul Warden
4x Soul's Attendant
4x Squadron Hawk
1x Cavern of Souls
4x Concealed Courtyard
4x Godless Shrine
4x Isolated Chapel
3x Marsh Flats
3x Plains
Other Spells
4x Honor of the Pure
3x Lingering Souls
4x Path to Exile
1x Chalice of the Void
2x Leyline of Sanctity
2x Mana Tithe
2x Rest in Peace
1x Return to the Ranks
2x Spellskite
2x Stony Silence
3x Thoughtseize
Link to deck @ TappedOut.net
Here's a deck I've been messing with on and off. Only had a chance to play it once but managed to get top 8 out of 30 people. It was so long ago I can't even remember my match ups. Just remember a lot of very close games only really losing badly to scapeshift.
I love ayli in this deck. She can really take out your opponents threats like nothing and she is a solid blocker on top of it.
Cliffhaven vampire is really nice too. He can win games by just being there but is a great attacker on top of it especially with honor of the pure out.
I used to run bitterblossom but found it too slow.
Never had a chance to use atheroes but it seems like it should be solid.
Let me know what you think.
The problem with that is then I have to cut other stuff for more lands as I only run 19 so even having a 4cmc card is pushing it. I used to run angel in an older build and just never really got her to go off. If she she cost the same as cliffhaven id replace him in a heart beat. I'd almost rather cut some other stuff for protection like brave the elements if being pushed is my biggest concern.
I've messed around with the idea of replacing cliffhaven with underworld coinsmith and Im sure I won't stop thinking of it till I actually try it. So many of my games ended with my opponent at 5 or less life and I feel like he can close out a game at that point easily
I enjoy adding a touch of janky nonsense to my decks.
It's a very good version of SS to start in. Only reason why I haven't converted my Mono-W build to that is because I'd like to stick to what I've gotten used to and come to love all these years. Like some form of 'loyalty' to it in a way.
Stake Sisters seem to have a better removal game, better sustain and adaptability as opposed to Mono-W builds. At the expense of less explosive hands (however, Norin himself can get out of hand if left un-checked). Considering how bad the current Modern environment is for our deck, you're really better off with Stake Sisters or those WB variants that I've seen recently. Mono-W just won't cut it, or to be more precise, we have a harder time with the current meta.
Thanks for the info! I want to dig around a bit, but it looks like I might land on this Boros version. I definitely understand what you mean though. I often get attached to my favorite version of decks and want to stick with them, even if others are going in a different direction. I definitely like G/B Elves the most though many prefer G/W or Abzan.
Ooph, that underworld coinsmith is such a bad trap I don't even know where to begin.
I've not used Athreos in Sisters but have used it in Martyr to mixed results. Seems like we pressure life total more often to make it relevant, which could be worthwhile. Pros will always tell you choice cards are awful, though. YMMV. When Ayli works, she's amazing, I've just never seen her work consistently.
I've never seen stake sisters before and will watch the videos but I'm not a fan as it looks to try to combine Norin sisters with pay off cards that aren't better than the core cards of either the Norin or traditional builds, which are just as cheap.
In go wide strategies like this, it seems like the payoff cards of the builds, Outnumber and Burn at the Stake, are very "win more," because they're only good if you've flooded the board, and you're already going to win if you flood the board. It seems like Outnumber is very often going to be a bolt that can't hit your opponent or it's going to be too late to be effective and allow you to remove creatures in games where you would already win. At that point, Sunlance or Condemn is probably better (though Lightning Helix would be the best call, but isn't a budget card per se. You'd probably get more game from Stoke the Flames.) As for Stoke, Paying 5 mana for 9-15 damage or so is a very good finisher and does give the deck a second way to win, which is nice. However, I think Brave the Elements would do the same thing by getting in your Parish and Pridemate while also having the flexibility to protect your creatures.
In a vacuum, it feels like Abolisher would help that but it doesn't. Instead, they just deal with Abolisher on their turn and then all you've done is traded a card one for one. If they don't spend the removal, then all they have to do is deal with a 2/2. There will be games where they unwisely spend their only removal on it to try to get to your Pridemate, but in 95% of games, it will be a Pridemate with no upside. The way to avoid being blown out by removal is to avoid keeping hands with only one threat.
Sorry if I seem down on good ideas here, but try them out. Enough of us are getting reps with more traditonal builds that it only makes sense to Try Everything (enjoy having that song in your head now.)
I would never mainboard Canonist the way you're suggesting you might mainboard Abolisher. I think the lock Canonist gives is good against the decks it's good against - but I do prefer Eidolon of Rhetoric, since it can't be Bolted and can't be Pushed without work.