Greetings Zinamogg and thanks for your thoughts! As a follow up...
You mentioned some issues you had with some of my choices, so I'm really curious, what are you playing in their stead? And in what numbers? I think it'll be constructive to compare choices. (it's easy to make arguments for or against cards in a vacuum, you know?)
I have liked mogg fanatic, and I frequently slot him in for testing, but I just really, really wish he had haste. Comparatively speaking, Monastery Swiftspear has more upside, damage-wise, than Fanatic. The haste is also huge, as I feel the strength of the deck is in how quickly it can kill. As for using Fanatic as removal, I've found it more useful to use actual removal, (currently searing blaze, as its also 3 to the face).
On Eidolon, don't take this question the wrong way, but how much did you play with it? Is it possible you misplayed it some? (I found it did take some time to get used to the card, it did make the deck worse for awhile until I played it JUST right). On the matchups where he will truly condemn you (Affinity or other aggro on the draw) I just side him out.
Greetings Zinamogg and thanks for your thoughts! As a follow up...
You mentioned some issues you had with some of my choices, so I'm really curious, what are you playing in their stead? And in what numbers? I think it'll be constructive to compare choices. (it's easy to make arguments for or against cards in a vacuum, you know?)
I have liked mogg fanatic, and I frequently slot him in for testing, but I just really, really wish he had haste. Comparatively speaking, Monastery Swiftspear has more upside, damage-wise, than Fanatic. The haste is also huge, as I feel the strength of the deck is in how quickly it can kill. As for using Fanatic as removal, I've found it more useful to use actual removal, (currently searing blaze, as its also 3 to the face).
On Eidolon, don't take this question the wrong way, but how much did you play with it? Is it possible you misplayed it some? (I found it did take some time to get used to the card, it did make the deck worse for awhile until I played it JUST right). On the matchups where he will truly condemn you (Affinity or other aggro on the draw) I just side him out.
I am also in the Mogg Fanatic Fan Club. He invokes some laughter from the other side of the table occasionally - and many people are surprised when he gets the last damage in for the win. I have found this little guy to be one of the most useful goblins in the deck. It just gives us so much game in so many ways. Is he the best attacker? Is he the best removal spell? Of course not - he is both, so he cannot be the best at either. I think of him as "goblin charm." He kills all of the X/1s in the format - many of which really need to die. He fits the go wide plan. He pumps FSD, and Piledriver. He gives you a bit of field wipe resistance. Is randomly very good against Living End (but that deck is probably going away with all the eldrazi running around). Winning with fanatic damage happens for me all the time.
I think your justification for Eidolon of the great revel is the same justification most people use for goblin piledriver. Great any time he sticks, gets sided out in bad matchups. They kind of compete for the same slot in my book. Except I would not run the eidolon personally because I can not chain it from a Burning-tree emissary - which is a card that has given my deck a serious boost. Eidolon is a card I have considered in the past. You mention that sweet spot of learning how to play it - can you elaborate? The card has always been on my radar in a goblin build, but I am with Zinamogg currently.
Monastery Swiftspear + Mutagenic Growth is nice. I have also tried swiftspear many times. It is a great card, but I want more goblins for goblin grenade and goblin piledriver. I feel her upside is comparable to that of other cards in the build anyway. Another card always considered by me personally, though.
Trying to balance "free spells" for RBushwhacker while maintaining a high creature count to maximize pump effects is tricky. That's why Devastating Summons and Memnite are on this list. They are cgheap/free spells that also provide creatures. I can imagine tapping three mana, casting a summons with bushwhacker followup to be a crazy swing. If you sac all three lands, you get 10 damage out of that combo. The possibility of having that happen is tempting.
I do see the Mogg Fanatics as a flex spot. I could see this deck with swiftspears and a d summons in its place. The question is - can the deck be consistently fast enough to mostly ignore what the opponent is doing? Is it worth sacrificing the aggro-utility of fanatic for pure aggro? My gut says no, but I will definitely be testing out all my options... I feel that if you chose to use a pure aggro build it should just be MedRage's T3 list.
Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Edit - IDK - this looks to have far too creatures to work. Now balancing Bushwhacker free spells/Spells for swiftspear with the upside of pump effects (having more creatures) is very hard. This is why I always leave out swiftspear in the end. She makes deckbuilding around a no lords pump list very awkward.
Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Yes, no Goblin Guides because (1) I don't like giving folks free card draw, and (b) I don't own any. Mostly (b) though, should have bought a playset when they were $5 a pop
One can easily cut 3 Mogg Fanatics and something else to add them, though. Another way I've considered is cutting Mogg Fanatic to add an Dynacharge (yes, Dynacharge, go ahead and laugh), which can be cast both for overload and for 1 mana as a bushwhacker booster. Another candidate for that slot is Signal Pest, which doesn't boost FSD, but casts off of the green mana from BTE.
Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
I'm also having a hard time trying to balance a new build for Reckless Bushwhacker. I just feel that this card can just replace Atarka's Command in our brews. But damn, those 3 on the face are so damn strong for a 2CMC. It's nearly a crime to cut them.
Atm I'm planning on running 4xGB, 2RB and 4Atarka's. 10 pump up effects are just ok. I think that we don't really need more. BUT I'm having a serious headache trying to get a balance between creatures and spells here
10 pump effects might even be too many... 6 has been working well for me in my per-OGW builds. Now I am upping it to 8 with the new guy and I am not sure there is room for more than that.
Regarding the balance of spells/creatures/pumps - the struggle is real!
Pump effects - want max creatures.
Reckless bushwhacker - wants free spells, most of which are not creatures.
Monastery swiftspear - makes this a lot harder, and works against the pump effects.
Memnite helps pump effects and RB, but doesn't pump FSD and kinda sucks otherwise
Simian Spirit guide - enables RB by letting you cast him T2 without a "free" spell
Gosh, and those are just the issues in the front of my brain right now!
Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Thought I didn't see it in your first decklist, but perhaps I just missed it...
I forgot to add it and went back to edit it! lol - you aren't seeing things. Goblin Bushwhacker is always in my goblin decks.
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Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
I am in the camp that feels like playsets of Both bushwhackers AND atarka are going to be too much. Reckless is quite janky at times; and I don't think I'll be running more than 2 in any build. Maybe a 2/2 split is the proper split.
I haven't been playing Goblins at all since my week long gold fish sessions (worn out from it is an understatement). Been playing Skred Red, Mono-Red Fiend combo, and Jeskai Prowess.
Probably will revisit goblins closer to when Reckless is released to get the sideboard ready and make some final decisions on which exact version to play in a few dailies.
I read this thread about 10 times a day though; so I'll be around to discuss things. Goblins is my #1 deck.
This UW Eldrazi deck is going to be a problem though if it catches on like it looks like it is. It's not even at full power and is a tough matchup.
I am in the camp that feels like playsets of Both bushwhackers AND atarka are going to be too much. Reckless is quite janky at times; and I don't think I'll be running more than 2 in any build. Maybe a 2/2 split is the proper split.
I haven't been playing Goblins at all since my week long gold fish sessions (worn out from it is an understatement). Been playing Skred Red, Mono-Red Fiend combo, and Jeskai Prowess.
Probably will revisit goblins closer to when Reckless is released to get the sideboard ready and make some final decisions on which exact version to play in a few dailies.
I read this thread about 10 times a day though; so I'll be around to discuss things. Goblins is my #1 deck.
This UW Eldrazi deck is going to be a problem though if it catches on like it looks like it is. It's not even at full power and is a tough matchup.
As I posted before, I am going to an SCG regional championship early february. I am going to take either an eldrazi deck, or a goblin deck as of now. Can you elaborate on what the eldrazi matchup is like for goblins? I was assuming it would be tough. I am also assuming that the field will be littered with them and I would need a plan. My plan right now is blood moon and pressure, which has been working very well in similar matchups. By similar - I mean other decks that want to grind out with goodstuff and three colors. Realistically though, no other deck is quite like the eldrazi.
I need to test your T3 version once the new gobbo is out, but I might take that list, depending on your thoughts on the previous question. Either way, I would like to discuss some SBing after the new dude is released...
I think a transformational sideboard (approx 8 cards) might be appropriate for that deck - one that is good against both control decks and eldrazi-style decks. The other 7 cards could be the normal stuff.
Thanks for all your work on goblins.
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Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
I am in the camp that feels like playsets of Both bushwhackers AND atarka are going to be too much. Reckless is quite janky at times; and I don't think I'll be running more than 2 in any build. Maybe a 2/2 split is the proper split.
I haven't been playing Goblins at all since my week long gold fish sessions (worn out from it is an understatement). Been playing Skred Red, Mono-Red Fiend combo, and Jeskai Prowess.
Probably will revisit goblins closer to when Reckless is released to get the sideboard ready and make some final decisions on which exact version to play in a few dailies.
I read this thread about 10 times a day though; so I'll be around to discuss things. Goblins is my #1 deck.
This UW Eldrazi deck is going to be a problem though if it catches on like it looks like it is. It's not even at full power and is a tough matchup.
As I posted before, I am going to an SCG regional championship early february. I am going to take either an eldrazi deck, or a goblin deck as of now. Can you elaborate on what the eldrazi matchup is like for goblins? I was assuming it would be tough. I am also assuming that the field will be littered with them and I would need a plan. My plan right now is blood moon and pressure, which has been working very well in similar matchups. By similar - I mean other decks that want to grind out with goodstuff and three colors. Realistically though, no other deck is quite like the eldrazi.
I need to test your T3 version once the new gobbo is out, but I might take that list, depending on your thoughts on the previous question. Either way, I would like to discuss some SBing after the new dude is released...
I think a transformational sideboard (approx 8 cards) might be appropriate for that deck - one that is good against both control decks and eldrazi-style decks. The other 7 cards could be the normal stuff.
Thanks for all your work on goblins.
As the only other guy in here who seems to be as deep into the Eldrazi deck as you are, I can't possibly think of a scarier matchup on the Eldrazi side. Goblin Grenade is an INCREDIBLE card vs. Eldrazi, and if you can turn 2 moon with your version and then back it up with real pressure, that's ggs for sure.
I played the turn 3 version against bw eldrazi. Game 1 I kept a slower hand and almost got him before he stabalized. Game 2 and 3 I killed him before he ever had a chance to do anything. When an opponent takes turn 2 to play some artifact or something to help them ramp they are just going to die.
Agreed. Eldrazi be dead. I need to kick it into gear and figure out what the hell im going to bring to the regional championship lol.
I think goblins is def the superior choice with all the eldrazi running around. Preordered my r bushwhackers today at the lgs...
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Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
almost the exact list.the only differences are I splash green for sideboard and I swapped 1 fury of the horde for one devastating summons. I think the only thing I sided in was 1 dismember. Unless they hit early path or other direct removal they are just way too slow for this build.
I am in the camp that feels like playsets of Both bushwhackers AND atarka are going to be too much. Reckless is quite janky at times; and I don't think I'll be running more than 2 in any build. Maybe a 2/2 split is the proper split.
I haven't been playing Goblins at all since my week long gold fish sessions (worn out from it is an understatement). Been playing Skred Red, Mono-Red Fiend combo, and Jeskai Prowess.
Probably will revisit goblins closer to when Reckless is released to get the sideboard ready and make some final decisions on which exact version to play in a few dailies.
I read this thread about 10 times a day though; so I'll be around to discuss things. Goblins is my #1 deck.
This UW Eldrazi deck is going to be a problem though if it catches on like it looks like it is. It's not even at full power and is a tough matchup.
As I posted before, I am going to an SCG regional championship early february. I am going to take either an eldrazi deck, or a goblin deck as of now. Can you elaborate on what the eldrazi matchup is like for goblins? I was assuming it would be tough. I am also assuming that the field will be littered with them and I would need a plan. My plan right now is blood moon and pressure, which has been working very well in similar matchups. By similar - I mean other decks that want to grind out with goodstuff and three colors. Realistically though, no other deck is quite like the eldrazi.
I need to test your T3 version once the new gobbo is out, but I might take that list, depending on your thoughts on the previous question. Either way, I would like to discuss some SBing after the new dude is released...
I think a transformational sideboard (approx 8 cards) might be appropriate for that deck - one that is good against both control decks and eldrazi-style decks. The other 7 cards could be the normal stuff.
Thanks for all your work on goblins.
I think the question is: what version are these guys running?
Go into their various eldrazi threads and you see more different decks being thrown around than even.... the goblins thread
Right now: it seems like 1 in 3 decks I play against on MTGO are Eldrazi. And there's versions floating around with like 20 removal spells, discard spells, and sweepers. Those are the versions I'm talking about that seem like a terrible matchup. There's other versions that play more like RG Tron; which has always been a win rate of 90% match-up. If that's the version that ends up getting played more - than scratch my original opinion from the record.
As it stands though - I expect you will see tons of Eldrazi (if the current uptick on mtgo is any indication).
If you run blood moon - I'd say 16-4 is the way to go. When i was running blood moon on 15-3 - I wasn't having the mana for it consistently on turn 3 (when turn 2 is the real turn we want to get it down.)
For mono-red: I think some combination of forked bolt, pithing needle, everlasting torment/leyline of punishment, Shattering Spree, Rending Volley, Dolmen Gate, Molten Rain & Dismember are what I'm going to be working with. No Blood Moon because it will force me to play more lands (but if I were 16-4: I'd play it).
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'We are goblinkind, heirs to the mountain empires of chieftains past. Rest is death to us, and arson is our call to war.' - Goblin Chieftain
The biggest problem I'm having with sideboard with the turn 3 version is I can't decide that u want to sideboard at all. Anything I side in to disrupt my opponent means I am playing that much slower as well. I often feel like I just need to beat them first.ie if I'm on the play and can kill the twin player on turn 4 or turn 3 on the draw then I just win. If not I'm not sure disrupting their combo really helps me that much to get the eventual win.
Never had a problem with Bloom, myself, so somewhat sad to see that one go. Twin I'm stoked about. Finally can shave Rending Volleys out of my sideboard.
The question I want to ask now though, is what decks will rise in Twin's place. What decks that Twin beat consistently might start showing up again? What decks that beat Twin consistently no longer have it on their menu? How does all this affect Goblins? Unfortunately, I'm not an expert on the modern meta or anything so I can only attempt to answer these questions. My best guess is that random combo decks just got better, as well as other aggro decks. That being said, I feel as if Goblins are in a decent spot right now, as we can be just a little faster and leaner than other aggressive decks. I almost want to play Lightning Helixes now...
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You mentioned some issues you had with some of my choices, so I'm really curious, what are you playing in their stead? And in what numbers? I think it'll be constructive to compare choices. (it's easy to make arguments for or against cards in a vacuum, you know?)
I have liked mogg fanatic, and I frequently slot him in for testing, but I just really, really wish he had haste. Comparatively speaking, Monastery Swiftspear has more upside, damage-wise, than Fanatic. The haste is also huge, as I feel the strength of the deck is in how quickly it can kill. As for using Fanatic as removal, I've found it more useful to use actual removal, (currently searing blaze, as its also 3 to the face).
On Eidolon, don't take this question the wrong way, but how much did you play with it? Is it possible you misplayed it some? (I found it did take some time to get used to the card, it did make the deck worse for awhile until I played it JUST right). On the matchups where he will truly condemn you (Affinity or other aggro on the draw) I just side him out.
I am also in the Mogg Fanatic Fan Club. He invokes some laughter from the other side of the table occasionally - and many people are surprised when he gets the last damage in for the win. I have found this little guy to be one of the most useful goblins in the deck. It just gives us so much game in so many ways. Is he the best attacker? Is he the best removal spell? Of course not - he is both, so he cannot be the best at either. I think of him as "goblin charm." He kills all of the X/1s in the format - many of which really need to die. He fits the go wide plan. He pumps FSD, and Piledriver. He gives you a bit of field wipe resistance. Is randomly very good against Living End (but that deck is probably going away with all the eldrazi running around). Winning with fanatic damage happens for me all the time.
I think your justification for Eidolon of the great revel is the same justification most people use for goblin piledriver. Great any time he sticks, gets sided out in bad matchups. They kind of compete for the same slot in my book. Except I would not run the eidolon personally because I can not chain it from a Burning-tree emissary - which is a card that has given my deck a serious boost. Eidolon is a card I have considered in the past. You mention that sweet spot of learning how to play it - can you elaborate? The card has always been on my radar in a goblin build, but I am with Zinamogg currently.
Monastery Swiftspear + Mutagenic Growth is nice. I have also tried swiftspear many times. It is a great card, but I want more goblins for goblin grenade and goblin piledriver. I feel her upside is comparable to that of other cards in the build anyway. Another card always considered by me personally, though.
Here is my Post-OGW goblin deck:
4x Foundry Street Denizen
4x Goblin Guide
4x Legion Loyalist
3x Mogg Fanatic
4x Goblin Bushwhacker
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
3x Mogg War Marshal
2x Reckless Bushwhacker
3x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Goblin Grenade
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Mutagenic Growth
2x Atarka's Command
Lands (16):
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Copperline Gorge
3x Mountain
1x Stomping Ground
2x Forked Bolt
2x Ancient Grudge
1x Destructive Revelry
2x Dolmen Gate
3x Thorn of Amethyst
3x Blood Moon
2x Everlasting Torment
This is a rough draft as of now, but my starting point once I get some RBushwhackers.
I am considering:
Trying to balance "free spells" for RBushwhacker while maintaining a high creature count to maximize pump effects is tricky. That's why Devastating Summons and Memnite are on this list. They are cgheap/free spells that also provide creatures. I can imagine tapping three mana, casting a summons with bushwhacker followup to be a crazy swing. If you sac all three lands, you get 10 damage out of that combo. The possibility of having that happen is tempting.
I do see the Mogg Fanatics as a flex spot. I could see this deck with swiftspears and a d summons in its place. The question is - can the deck be consistently fast enough to mostly ignore what the opponent is doing? Is it worth sacrificing the aggro-utility of fanatic for pure aggro? My gut says no, but I will definitely be testing out all my options... I feel that if you chose to use a pure aggro build it should just be MedRage's T3 list.
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
4x Foundry Street Denizen
4x Goblin Bushwhacker
4x Goblin Guide
4x Legion Loyalist
4x Monastery Swiftspear
3x Reckless Bushwhacker
2x Devastating Summons
4x Goblin Grenade
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Mutagenic Growth
4x Gitaxian Probe
2x Atarka's Command
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Copperline Gorge
4x Mountain
1x Stomping Ground
Still - MedRage's list is probably better...
Edit - IDK - this looks to have far too creatures to work. Now balancing Bushwhacker free spells/Spells for swiftspear with the upside of pump effects (having more creatures) is very hard. This is why I always leave out swiftspear in the end. She makes deckbuilding around a no lords pump list very awkward.
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
I am planning to try a mono-red token version.
4x Foundry Street Denizen
4x Goblin Bushwhacker
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
4x Legion Loyalist
4x Monastery Swiftspear
3x Reckless Bushwhacker
3x Mogg Fanatic
1x Devastating Summons
4x Goblin Grenade
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Krenko's Command
4x Dragon Fodder
14 Mountain
4 Simian Spirit Guide
One can easily cut 3 Mogg Fanatics and something else to add them, though. Another way I've considered is cutting Mogg Fanatic to add an Dynacharge (yes, Dynacharge, go ahead and laugh), which can be cast both for overload and for 1 mana as a bushwhacker booster. Another candidate for that slot is Signal Pest, which doesn't boost FSD, but casts off of the green mana from BTE.
I completely agree - Goblin Bushwhacker is a much better card than Reckless Bushwhacker. I always run 4.
@MedRage
Any updates on the sideboard for your new list?
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
10 pump effects might even be too many... 6 has been working well for me in my per-OGW builds. Now I am upping it to 8 with the new guy and I am not sure there is room for more than that.
Regarding the balance of spells/creatures/pumps - the struggle is real!
- Pump effects - want max creatures.
- Reckless bushwhacker - wants free spells, most of which are not creatures.
- Monastery swiftspear - makes this a lot harder, and works against the pump effects.
- Memnite helps pump effects and RB, but doesn't pump FSD and kinda sucks otherwise
- Simian Spirit guide - enables RB by letting you cast him T2 without a "free" spell
Gosh, and those are just the issues in the front of my brain right now!Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
Thought I didn't see it in your first decklist, but perhaps I just missed it...
I forgot to add it and went back to edit it! lol - you aren't seeing things. Goblin Bushwhacker is always in my goblin decks.
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
I haven't been playing Goblins at all since my week long gold fish sessions (worn out from it is an understatement). Been playing Skred Red, Mono-Red Fiend combo, and Jeskai Prowess.
Probably will revisit goblins closer to when Reckless is released to get the sideboard ready and make some final decisions on which exact version to play in a few dailies.
I read this thread about 10 times a day though; so I'll be around to discuss things. Goblins is my #1 deck.
This UW Eldrazi deck is going to be a problem though if it catches on like it looks like it is. It's not even at full power and is a tough matchup.
1. Put Cavern of Souls on the board
2. Say "Goblin"
3. Grin
:>
Well, you can always toss in 4 Gitaxian Probes.
As I posted before, I am going to an SCG regional championship early february. I am going to take either an eldrazi deck, or a goblin deck as of now. Can you elaborate on what the eldrazi matchup is like for goblins? I was assuming it would be tough. I am also assuming that the field will be littered with them and I would need a plan. My plan right now is blood moon and pressure, which has been working very well in similar matchups. By similar - I mean other decks that want to grind out with goodstuff and three colors. Realistically though, no other deck is quite like the eldrazi.
I need to test your T3 version once the new gobbo is out, but I might take that list, depending on your thoughts on the previous question. Either way, I would like to discuss some SBing after the new dude is released...
I think a transformational sideboard (approx 8 cards) might be appropriate for that deck - one that is good against both control decks and eldrazi-style decks. The other 7 cards could be the normal stuff.
Thanks for all your work on goblins.
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
As the only other guy in here who seems to be as deep into the Eldrazi deck as you are, I can't possibly think of a scarier matchup on the Eldrazi side. Goblin Grenade is an INCREDIBLE card vs. Eldrazi, and if you can turn 2 moon with your version and then back it up with real pressure, that's ggs for sure.
I think goblins is def the superior choice with all the eldrazi running around. Preordered my r bushwhackers today at the lgs...
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
I think the question is: what version are these guys running?
Go into their various eldrazi threads and you see more different decks being thrown around than even.... the goblins thread
Right now: it seems like 1 in 3 decks I play against on MTGO are Eldrazi. And there's versions floating around with like 20 removal spells, discard spells, and sweepers. Those are the versions I'm talking about that seem like a terrible matchup. There's other versions that play more like RG Tron; which has always been a win rate of 90% match-up. If that's the version that ends up getting played more - than scratch my original opinion from the record.
As it stands though - I expect you will see tons of Eldrazi (if the current uptick on mtgo is any indication).
If you run blood moon - I'd say 16-4 is the way to go. When i was running blood moon on 15-3 - I wasn't having the mana for it consistently on turn 3 (when turn 2 is the real turn we want to get it down.)
For mono-red: I think some combination of forked bolt, pithing needle, everlasting torment/leyline of punishment, Shattering Spree, Rending Volley, Dolmen Gate, Molten Rain & Dismember are what I'm going to be working with. No Blood Moon because it will force me to play more lands (but if I were 16-4: I'd play it).
The question I want to ask now though, is what decks will rise in Twin's place. What decks that Twin beat consistently might start showing up again? What decks that beat Twin consistently no longer have it on their menu? How does all this affect Goblins? Unfortunately, I'm not an expert on the modern meta or anything so I can only attempt to answer these questions. My best guess is that random combo decks just got better, as well as other aggro decks. That being said, I feel as if Goblins are in a decent spot right now, as we can be just a little faster and leaner than other aggressive decks. I almost want to play Lightning Helixes now...