Advice appreciated. I really like your ideas on Boros Charm compared to Helix. However, Helix has the massive upside of hitting creatures. In a Sligh build (that Goblins is) it needs removal. I also must admit I agree with the Cage evaluation. It is really against Pod but I think their could be better hate.
I definitely understand preferring Helix for its ability to hit creatures, but I think Searing Blaze is better for that job at two mana since the damage matters more than the life. Boros Charm is kind of like a worse Goblin Grenade that can counter a Supreme Verdict, Pyroclasm or just be used to save someone from a removal spell.
I definitely agree that the low-curve Aggro version and the Vial version are completely different decks that just happen to share some cards and that there strategies and approaches are drastically different.
As for which is better, it is definitely possible that there is a superior Vial version out there that is the best. However, I strongly feel that the low-curve aggro version is superior for a few reasons.
First of all, much of the appeal of a slower Aether Vial version comes from the power of many cards that are not Modern legal. Playing high curve, more powerful goblins is much better when Goblin Lackey and Goblin Warchief are around to help power them out early. Furthermore, that version has card advantage in the form of Gempalm Incinerator, Goblin Matron and Goblin Ringleader that are not available in Modern. Finally, Aether Vial is far better in that deck since it uses Wasteland and Rishadan Port to greatly slow other decks while still putting goblins on the table. There are also much more powerful counterspells, in legacy that are avoided with Vial.
In Modern, there aren't replacements for most of these things. There isn't a reliable source of card advantage or tutoring, there aren't as many ways to cheat out creatures and there aren't the same amount of non-basic lands to play. There are not as many devastating, early counterspells like Daze, Hydroblast and Force of Will. This means that the most efficient way to attack the opponent, with the available card pool, is to be as fast as possible while leveraging certain tribal synergies.
Aether Vial is just far too slow in this type of deck. You would much rather be playing your 1-mana goblins or token makers as quickly as possible to be followed up by a Lord or other pump effect. You don't have the time to use Vial to play around their sweepers and counter spells (which Boros Charm and Cavern of Souls can respectively do while also being proactive cards).
First of all I think your primer is amazing! Go Goblins for moving to the established section!
Second - IMHO this is a meta game choice as well as a play-style choice. Sure, the mono red fast paced version of this deck is receiving some much needed attention right now (as it should), but how many people are actually testing Aether Vial with Lead the Stampede? It seems that because of the recent printing of boros charm, Skullcrack, and "extort" (such as on the card Blind Obedience) you might be playing in a burn-heavy meta. Which type of build is going to be better in your average burn matchup? I would put my money on the deck with better card advantage (LtS). Also, if you would like to reference it - I have been testing Modern goblins for a while with the following build as my most recent. People need to know that R/G Vial+LtS is a viable option (as you kind of hint at in the primer).
Those who try it might find this deck less matchup dependent, better at recovering, and that it plays similar to a legacy goblin deck swinging in for the whole 20 at once (with the random T4 kill still possible but not consistent).
** Rootbound Crag and a couple mountains should be switched out for 4-6x Fetches and 2-4x Stomping Ground in a meta with less burn than mine (TY Franx).
This is by no means a comprehensive explanation of this style of deck, more of a spoiler for an alternate style of modern goblin deck that I have had some limited success with.
On a side note - some people might argue that Warren Instigator is worth keeping around because of its DS ability, with the lackey-effect being an added bonus (especially in combination with Legion Loyalist for trample).
Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
First of all I think your primer is amazing! Go Goblins for moving to the established section!
Second - IMHO this is a meta game choice as well as a play-style choice. Sure, the mono red fast paced version of this deck is receiving some much needed attention right now (as it should), but how many people are actually testing Aether Vial with Lead the Stampede? It seems that because of the recent printing of boros charm, Skullcrack, and "extort" (such as on the card Blind Obedience) you might be playing in a burn-heavy meta. Which type of build is going to be better in your average burn matchup? I would put my money on the deck with better card advantage (LtS). Also, if you would like to reference it - I have been testing Modern goblins for a while with the following build as my most recent. People need to know that R/G Vial+LtS is a viable option (as you kind of hint at in the primer).
Those who try it might find this deck less matchup dependent, better at recovering, and that it plays similar to a legacy goblin deck swinging in for the whole 20 at once (with the random T4 kill still possible but not consistent).
** Rootbound Crag and a couple mountains should be switched out for 4-6x Fetches and 2-4x Stomping Ground in a meta with less burn than mine (TY Franx).
This is by no means a comprehensive explanation of this style of deck, more of a spoiler for an alternate style of modern goblin deck that I have had some limited success with.
On a side note - some people might argue that Warren Instigator is worth keeping around because of its DS ability, with the lackey-effect being an added bonus (especially in combination with Legion Loyalist for trample).
By no means do I want to say that it's cut and dry that low-curve, Mono-Red is > Aether Vial versions with four and five drops. I'm glad you're trying it out and posting your experiences. I just know what has been successful for me and wanted to pass that along in here. I completely agree that understanding what you expect to play against, as well as the type of deck you will personally be most successful with is very important and easy to overlook.
I won't confess to having nearly the same level of understanding of your version of the deck at all. I have played Legacy Goblins and Standard Goblins in many forms so I've played with pretty much all of those cards, just not together. I do like your list the best of all the Vial versions I have seen, very streamlined with a strong mana-base. I will be sure to add it to the primer since it seems to be a good leaping off point for posters interested in that version.
As far as breaking down what the low-curve version is good and bad against, so as to compare it to a Vial version in terms of matchups, maybe that's something to add to the primer. It's a bit complex, dependent on each other's builds and other factors. For example, I believe that R/G aggro is probably the best matchup for Mono-Red Goblins that is widely played because the R/G aggro players have always looked at the matchup way wrong from my experiences. I think against better or more experienced players in the matchup, that might change.
@Mongol - thanks for the link and compliment! I would agree with you and Franx (along with those that lost in the dailies) that the mono red aggro version is probably the best choice right now in most places. I just wanted to give R/G lists a proper showing to let people know that it's out there and in development. My current list relies on a lot of advice I read in the last developing thread and I would like it to keep developing for all goblin players' benefit!
I am sure more comprehensive matchup breakdowns will be reported as this archetype attracts more tournament players with its recent success. Immediately, however, many players might benefit from a specific breakdown for the popular build. Also, I might include a sub-spoiler drop down at the bottom with mentions of the other various styles of play for modern goblins such as R/G, R/B, or R/W. For example, I am sure there is a R/B list that is worth mentioning from the last thread. Until Modern Goblins have their very own dedicated section in the proven forum, all varieties of goblin players will come here to post, ask advice, and look for ideas to make their own deck and having mentions of the various styles within the archetype would greatly help them out while helping all of us brainstorm as this archetype continues to grow and develop in multiple directions simultaneously.
Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
The deck pretty much uses a lot of token generators out of Mogg War Marshal, Krenko's Command, and Dragon Fodder. Not only do they serve the "Anthems" better (Shared Animosity, Chieftain, Bushwhacker) they also trigger Foundry Street Denizen multiple times, allowing it to be a 3/1 most of the time.
Caleb at Channel Fireball posted a video of him playing his list but i didn't like it. You really cant just cut Lightning Bolt and Goblin Grenade.
Anyways only 2 Shared animosity because I made this last minute for last night's tournament and shop owner only had 2. I definitely want this to be a 3 of, and if the deck can handle it, 4 of.
Sideboard is hodge podge at the moment so I do not feel comfortable discussing it as I might really not have much insight about it for now.
Ended up 3rd place. Won against Eggs, a Ramp Deck, Melira Pod, Jund, and Lost to Infect.
If there are any questions about my list, i will do my best to answer them
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Standard UWUW Spirit FlashUW Modern BWEldrazi and TaxesBW UMono Blue ControlU WURGRestore BalanceWURG Legacy WDeath and TaxesW
If there are any questions about my list, i will do my best to answer them
I'd have to see your sideboard in order to get a complete idea of your list, it seems like the typical list that has been circling around as of late. I have to agree with you on the fact that you shouldn't cut bolt or grenade. However, i believe one of them should be cut. If you feel you have bolt in there for the soul purpose of creature removal you are getting away from the basis of the deck. Grenade i can understand because its a key win condition, but bolt not so much. It's entirely a meta call in my opinion. I have cut grenade and started doing my testing with bolt and an addition of mogg fanatic, so far the results are varied. I have to continue testing later this week when i have time off work.
Hey there, I've been testing a lot in the last days and I find myself pretty happy with the vial build I am playing (the R/W one)
But I found myself losing to an infect deck playing the 2/2 knight pro red (sorry I forgot the name). A little question I have is Stingscourger able to bounce him? Is it a trigger ability or is the creature targeting it? I'm sorry if that is a stupid question but I am pretty bad with the ruling
Stingscourger text reads as follows, When Stingscourger enters the battlefield, return target creature an opponent controls to its owner's hand. So unfortunately, when it enters play, it targets a creature, and that's a no Makes me a sad panda. Phyrexian Crusader, is a pain i'm afraid not a lot we could do about it but attempt to out race them.
I couldnt cut bolt because there are just too many things i have to get out of the way to make good attacks. Annoying things like deathrite shamans sometimes tempo me because of that odd 2 toughness it has.
I cut one grenade, if the bolts get in my way more than become a boon i can keep cutting it till i get to the right amount
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Standard UWUW Spirit FlashUW Modern BWEldrazi and TaxesBW UMono Blue ControlU WURGRestore BalanceWURG Legacy WDeath and TaxesW
I'm new to the magic community and have built myself a goblin deck.I have so far won quite a few casual games because it has potential to kill fast and has a few win situations.However, would apprieciate some input from you folks
So far 19 lands have been the near perfect amount of mana i could have in this deck.Before this i had 4 each of Krenko's Command and Dragon Fodder but i find myself
mulliganing more than i should.After removing 1 of each and replacing it with 2 lands, the lands i draw seems to be much better.I also find that i very rarely need to use Krenko, Mob boss unless its a protracted right,last i was battling a soul sister's deck and won because i was churning out tokens and with all the other synergies like goblin chieftan, legion loyalist and wardriver i managed to stave off the opponent's creatures and grind him down.However, when i do play against my friends RDW,control, or white/green deck, i rarely find myself using Krenko, Mob Boss because the games doesn't last that long.
Usually, after i lay down my first land , either goblin guide, arsonist (More damage for goblin grenades) or Legion Loyalist comes into play.
Afterwhich i'll use Dragons fodder,krenko's command or goblin wardriver to synergize with legion loyalists for its effects and then finally lay down goblin chieftans or hellraiser goblins (which i would lay down first if it was the only 3 mana cost in my hand, if no then goblin chieftan goes down first). So far it has proved a fast hitting deck,albeit very susceptible to board clearers.
As you can see, i lack a sideboard as well and have been doing some research, however even with the descriptions from the primer, i find it hard to choose the most optimal cards for this deck.
If my could could make an improvement, it would be really great and i would very much like to hear your input. My first FNM is this friday and am looking very much forward to it
I used to love goblins back when onslaught still was extended legal. I like how your list is looking and will try it for now. You miscalculated the number of creatures and still have two slots left. I filled them with Stingscourger to have something to impact the board a bit. Also adjusted the manabase to
1 forest
1 stomping ground
1 pendelhaven
8 fetch
4 cavern of souls
7 mountain
Issues I have with the list is that it's very low on removal. Really miss the gempalms :<
Whoops! Yeah when I posted that it was very late at night and I did it from memory. I like the Stingscourgers in that spot as well as 2x Goblin Grenade. For now I will edit it and add the Stingscourgers off of your suggestion. I used to run Foundry Street Denizen in that slot, but I have since removed it - it is not optimal in this build. I think your mana base is optimal (although I might run 6x fetch instead of 8x) for Stampede hits and consistency and would use something more like that in a meta with less burn than mine - I simply cannot afford to pay the life for fetches and shocks in many of my local matchups... I also did a lot of reading on the whole "fetches and thinning" thing and came to the conclusion that longevity is more valuable than an extra card no and then for this deck. Also, keep in mind that if you use any fetches that search for forests that you will be forced to get a shock most of the time and take 2 to the dome.
Pendelhaven... If this works the way I think it does, then you won't be using the ability often because of lord effects. I would cut it if this is the case for another dual land or mountain.
This deck is low on removal, but it makes up for it with big attacks that usually don't care about blockers (Legion Loyalist, Lords, Krenko, a sea of tokens...). Also, the 4 goblin grenades in the SB can be used as removal or DD in a deck you might be racing. You can also use that spot for lightning bolts if you need them. Another option for building this sideboard is filling it with non-creature spells and siding out LtS against creature-heavy decks. I have tried this and it works quite nicely. I go with the current version because it seems a bit more streamlined to me.
Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
What does everyone think of this list which I found recently?
Looks like an old Standard list (like a year and a half ago maybe).
I've quickly put together the following list and am having a blast playing it, still undefeated (2x Junk, RG Tron, Jund, UWR Ajani/Elspeth, 2x Affinity):
The singleton Foundry Street Denizen is there 'cause I couldn't get a forth Guide. I also wanted to play 3-4 Cavern of Souls but they're expensive for me now.
The sideboard is a bit obnoxious 'cause it diminishes the explosiveness of the deck, but I'm liking it. I've just beat RG Tron after stealing a Wurmcoil with Mark of Mutiny.
Shattering Blow is awesome to get rid of Wurmcoils, Blinkmoth/Inkmoth Nexus and Darksteel Citadel. This improves the Affinity MU a lot compared to Smash to Smithereens - a card I couldn't find on the bots I usually get cards (!).
Skullcrack is there for Soul Sisters, which I imagine is a nightmare MU (still not faced it). I'm willing to replace it with Sulfur Elemental though.
Pithing Needle is a catchall for things I can't really deal with, like Karn. But I think you just replace'em with more Mark of Mutiny.
Faerie Macabre is my graveyard hate of choice. It's either Faerie or Tormod's Crypt as I really don't want to spend mana and turns not casting Goblins. Faerie is way better vs Eggs too.
Round 4 Junk Doran 0-2. How the hell do we beat this guys? T2 Tarmogoyf into T3 Doran is unbeatable for us in my eyes. T1 Noble Hierarch into T2 Doran hurts more.
Couple more games played, I believe Goblin Assault is definitely needed on the SB for the UWR matchup. They pack a lot of removal (4 Bolts, 4 Helixes, 4 Paths, some more sweepers) and I could only win with Goblin Assault (and Guttural Response :)).
I could have included some anti lifegain type stuff- meta dependent, basically, ditto spellskite for boggle etc.
In this type of build- mid speed- I want to be able to cast my goblins, especially pseudo spell ones like ruinblaster or bushwhacker. Cavern allows me to do just that.
This type of build also has a lot of must answer goblins- seige gang on its own, krenko etc. I really can't afford to play with them and have them remanded, so again 4 caverns become essential.
I have also included man lands as a result of the fact that I am not trying to be rdw- and although fast kills are possible I really want as many options as possible post board wipers. First strike is rather nifty in red too, hence encampment. The mutavaults are a concession to etched champions as much as anything, and I waver between 2 and 3. I do not feel they are essential. But having played this deck a bit, and even a boros human tribal deck I can vouch for the quality of cavern of souls in the format at present. I am an aethervial/d and t player at heart, and so appreciate the power of uncounterability. And in tribal decks this card shines like no other against the urw aggro control and straight control decks as well as uw resto angel decks and even scapeshift and other combo decks that use remand.
So the Dragon's Maze spoiler seems to suggest that elf-ball might be a thing again. What's our plan in this matchup? If I have a Mogg Fanatic should I pop off the first elf I see or should I wait to snipe something important like a Heritage Druid?
So the Dragon's Maze spoiler seems to suggest that elf-ball might be a thing again. What's our plan in this matchup? If I have a Mogg Fanatic should I pop off the first elf I see or should I wait to snipe something important like a Heritage Druid?
Splash white and play Rule of Law.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
I definitely understand preferring Helix for its ability to hit creatures, but I think Searing Blaze is better for that job at two mana since the damage matters more than the life. Boros Charm is kind of like a worse Goblin Grenade that can counter a Supreme Verdict, Pyroclasm or just be used to save someone from a removal spell.
First of all I think your primer is amazing! Go Goblins for moving to the established section!
Second - IMHO this is a meta game choice as well as a play-style choice. Sure, the mono red fast paced version of this deck is receiving some much needed attention right now (as it should), but how many people are actually testing Aether Vial with Lead the Stampede? It seems that because of the recent printing of boros charm, Skullcrack, and "extort" (such as on the card Blind Obedience) you might be playing in a burn-heavy meta. Which type of build is going to be better in your average burn matchup? I would put my money on the deck with better card advantage (LtS). Also, if you would like to reference it - I have been testing Modern goblins for a while with the following build as my most recent. People need to know that R/G Vial+LtS is a viable option (as you kind of hint at in the primer).
The Goblin Stampede...
4x Goblin Guide
4x Legion Loyalist
4x Mogg War Marshal
2x Stingscourger
4x Warren Instigator
4x Goblin Chieftain
4x Goblin King
2x Krenko, Mob Boss
2x Siege-Gang Commander
4x Lead the Stampede
4x Aether Vial
Land (22)
10x Mountain
4x Copperline Gorge
4x Rootbound Crag (**)
4x Cavern of Souls
4x Stigma Lasher
4x Tin Street Hooligan
4x Goblin Grenade
3x Magus of the Moon
Those who try it might find this deck less matchup dependent, better at recovering, and that it plays similar to a legacy goblin deck swinging in for the whole 20 at once (with the random T4 kill still possible but not consistent).
** Rootbound Crag and a couple mountains should be switched out for 4-6x Fetches and 2-4x Stomping Ground in a meta with less burn than mine (TY Franx).
This is by no means a comprehensive explanation of this style of deck, more of a spoiler for an alternate style of modern goblin deck that I have had some limited success with.
On a side note - some people might argue that Warren Instigator is worth keeping around because of its DS ability, with the lackey-effect being an added bonus (especially in combination with Legion Loyalist for trample).
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
By no means do I want to say that it's cut and dry that low-curve, Mono-Red is > Aether Vial versions with four and five drops. I'm glad you're trying it out and posting your experiences. I just know what has been successful for me and wanted to pass that along in here. I completely agree that understanding what you expect to play against, as well as the type of deck you will personally be most successful with is very important and easy to overlook.
I won't confess to having nearly the same level of understanding of your version of the deck at all. I have played Legacy Goblins and Standard Goblins in many forms so I've played with pretty much all of those cards, just not together. I do like your list the best of all the Vial versions I have seen, very streamlined with a strong mana-base. I will be sure to add it to the primer since it seems to be a good leaping off point for posters interested in that version.
As far as breaking down what the low-curve version is good and bad against, so as to compare it to a Vial version in terms of matchups, maybe that's something to add to the primer. It's a bit complex, dependent on each other's builds and other factors. For example, I believe that R/G aggro is probably the best matchup for Mono-Red Goblins that is widely played because the R/G aggro players have always looked at the matchup way wrong from my experiences. I think against better or more experienced players in the matchup, that might change.
I am sure more comprehensive matchup breakdowns will be reported as this archetype attracts more tournament players with its recent success. Immediately, however, many players might benefit from a specific breakdown for the popular build. Also, I might include a sub-spoiler drop down at the bottom with mentions of the other various styles of play for modern goblins such as R/G, R/B, or R/W. For example, I am sure there is a R/B list that is worth mentioning from the last thread. Until Modern Goblins have their very own dedicated section in the proven forum, all varieties of goblin players will come here to post, ask advice, and look for ideas to make their own deck and having mentions of the various styles within the archetype would greatly help them out while helping all of us brainstorm as this archetype continues to grow and develop in multiple directions simultaneously.
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
My list tries to get a lot of synergy between the Foundry Street Denizen and "Anthems"
18 Mountain
2 Cavern of Souls
Creatures
4 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Goblin Guide
4 Legion Loyalist
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Mogg War Marshal
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Grenade
4 Krenko's Command
3 Dragon Fodder
Instant
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Shared Animosity
The deck pretty much uses a lot of token generators out of Mogg War Marshal, Krenko's Command, and Dragon Fodder. Not only do they serve the "Anthems" better (Shared Animosity, Chieftain, Bushwhacker) they also trigger Foundry Street Denizen multiple times, allowing it to be a 3/1 most of the time.
Caleb at Channel Fireball posted a video of him playing his list but i didn't like it. You really cant just cut Lightning Bolt and Goblin Grenade.
Anyways only 2 Shared animosity because I made this last minute for last night's tournament and shop owner only had 2. I definitely want this to be a 3 of, and if the deck can handle it, 4 of.
Sideboard is hodge podge at the moment so I do not feel comfortable discussing it as I might really not have much insight about it for now.
Ended up 3rd place. Won against Eggs, a Ramp Deck, Melira Pod, Jund, and Lost to Infect.
If there are any questions about my list, i will do my best to answer them
UWUW Spirit FlashUW
Modern
BWEldrazi and TaxesBW
UMono Blue ControlU
WURGRestore BalanceWURG
Legacy
WDeath and TaxesW
I'd have to see your sideboard in order to get a complete idea of your list, it seems like the typical list that has been circling around as of late. I have to agree with you on the fact that you shouldn't cut bolt or grenade. However, i believe one of them should be cut. If you feel you have bolt in there for the soul purpose of creature removal you are getting away from the basis of the deck. Grenade i can understand because its a key win condition, but bolt not so much. It's entirely a meta call in my opinion. I have cut grenade and started doing my testing with bolt and an addition of mogg fanatic, so far the results are varied. I have to continue testing later this week when i have time off work.
Stingscourger text reads as follows, When Stingscourger enters the battlefield, return target creature an opponent controls to its owner's hand. So unfortunately, when it enters play, it targets a creature, and that's a no
Modern:
B 8Rack
RX Goblins
BG Elves (Attempting)
UBW Mill
G Stompy
UB Tezzerator
Legacy:
W Stax
I cut one grenade, if the bolts get in my way more than become a boon i can keep cutting it till i get to the right amount
UWUW Spirit FlashUW
Modern
BWEldrazi and TaxesBW
UMono Blue ControlU
WURGRestore BalanceWURG
Legacy
WDeath and TaxesW
I'm new to the magic community and have built myself a goblin deck.I have so far won quite a few casual games because it has potential to kill fast and has a few win situations.However, would apprieciate some input from you folks
Creatures
Goblin Arsonist X4
Goblin Guide X4
Legion Loyalist X4
Goblin Wardriver X4
Goblin Chieftan X4
Hellraiser Goblin X4
Krenko, Mob Boss X3
Spells
Goblin Grenade X4
Lightning Bolt X4
Dragon Fodder X3
Krenko's Command X3
Lands
Mountain X19
So far 19 lands have been the near perfect amount of mana i could have in this deck.Before this i had 4 each of Krenko's Command and Dragon Fodder but i find myself
mulliganing more than i should.After removing 1 of each and replacing it with 2 lands, the lands i draw seems to be much better.I also find that i very rarely need to use Krenko, Mob boss unless its a protracted right,last i was battling a soul sister's deck and won because i was churning out tokens and with all the other synergies like goblin chieftan, legion loyalist and wardriver i managed to stave off the opponent's creatures and grind him down.However, when i do play against my friends RDW,control, or white/green deck, i rarely find myself using Krenko, Mob Boss because the games doesn't last that long.
Usually, after i lay down my first land , either goblin guide, arsonist (More damage for goblin grenades) or Legion Loyalist comes into play.
Afterwhich i'll use Dragons fodder,krenko's command or goblin wardriver to synergize with legion loyalists for its effects and then finally lay down goblin chieftans or hellraiser goblins (which i would lay down first if it was the only 3 mana cost in my hand, if no then goblin chieftan goes down first). So far it has proved a fast hitting deck,albeit very susceptible to board clearers.
As you can see, i lack a sideboard as well and have been doing some research, however even with the descriptions from the primer, i find it hard to choose the most optimal cards for this deck.
If my could could make an improvement, it would be really great and i would very much like to hear your input. My first FNM is this friday and am looking very much forward to it
Whoops! Yeah when I posted that it was very late at night and I did it from memory. I like the Stingscourgers in that spot as well as 2x Goblin Grenade. For now I will edit it and add the Stingscourgers off of your suggestion. I used to run Foundry Street Denizen in that slot, but I have since removed it - it is not optimal in this build. I think your mana base is optimal (although I might run 6x fetch instead of 8x) for Stampede hits and consistency and would use something more like that in a meta with less burn than mine - I simply cannot afford to pay the life for fetches and shocks in many of my local matchups... I also did a lot of reading on the whole "fetches and thinning" thing and came to the conclusion that longevity is more valuable than an extra card no and then for this deck. Also, keep in mind that if you use any fetches that search for forests that you will be forced to get a shock most of the time and take 2 to the dome.
Pendelhaven... If this works the way I think it does, then you won't be using the ability often because of lord effects. I would cut it if this is the case for another dual land or mountain.
This deck is low on removal, but it makes up for it with big attacks that usually don't care about blockers (Legion Loyalist, Lords, Krenko, a sea of tokens...). Also, the 4 goblin grenades in the SB can be used as removal or DD in a deck you might be racing. You can also use that spot for lightning bolts if you need them. Another option for building this sideboard is filling it with non-creature spells and siding out LtS against creature-heavy decks. I have tried this and it works quite nicely. I go with the current version because it seems a bit more streamlined to me.
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
Looks like an old Standard list (like a year and a half ago maybe).
I've quickly put together the following list and am having a blast playing it, still undefeated (2x Junk, RG Tron, Jund, UWR Ajani/Elspeth, 2x Affinity):
(I got it from here: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/09d3dc5b-5452-4ce1-a462-e1afe15a3700)
3 Goblin Guide
1 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Legion Loyalist
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Goblin Cohort
4 Akki Avalanchers
4 Mogg War Marshal
1 Spikeshot Elder
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Grenade
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Combust
2 Skullcrack
4 Shattering Blow
4 Faerie Macabre
2 Pithing Needle
1 Mark of Mutiny
The singleton Foundry Street Denizen is there 'cause I couldn't get a forth Guide. I also wanted to play 3-4 Cavern of Souls but they're expensive for me now.
The sideboard is a bit obnoxious 'cause it diminishes the explosiveness of the deck, but I'm liking it. I've just beat RG Tron after stealing a Wurmcoil with Mark of Mutiny.
Shattering Blow is awesome to get rid of Wurmcoils, Blinkmoth/Inkmoth Nexus and Darksteel Citadel. This improves the Affinity MU a lot compared to Smash to Smithereens - a card I couldn't find on the bots I usually get cards (!).
Skullcrack is there for Soul Sisters, which I imagine is a nightmare MU (still not faced it). I'm willing to replace it with Sulfur Elemental though.
Pithing Needle is a catchall for things I can't really deal with, like Karn. But I think you just replace'em with more Mark of Mutiny.
Faerie Macabre is my graveyard hate of choice. It's either Faerie or Tormod's Crypt as I really don't want to spend mana and turns not casting Goblins. Faerie is way better vs Eggs too.
Open to critics.
Forked bolt, dismember, grave hate, arc trail, pillar of flame. Most rock decks run doran sb, and if u can out race them game 1 you will have a strong g2 with those sb options
Modern:
B 8Rack
RX Goblins
BG Elves (Attempting)
UBW Mill
G Stompy
UB Tezzerator
Legacy:
W Stax
Personally I like to run cavern of souls. Here is my sample list
4 cavern of souls
2 ghitu encampment
2 mutavault
4 goblin guide
4 mogg fanatic
1 spikeshot elder
4 mogg war marshall
4 goblin wardriver
4 goblin chieftan
2 krenko, mob boss
3 siege-gang commander
4 lightning bolt
3 pillar of flame
3 goblin ruinblaster
3 molten rain
2 torpor orb
2 combust
3 shatterstorm
2 relic of progenitus
I could have included some anti lifegain type stuff- meta dependent, basically, ditto spellskite for boggle etc.
In this type of build- mid speed- I want to be able to cast my goblins, especially pseudo spell ones like ruinblaster or bushwhacker. Cavern allows me to do just that.
This type of build also has a lot of must answer goblins- seige gang on its own, krenko etc. I really can't afford to play with them and have them remanded, so again 4 caverns become essential.
I have also included man lands as a result of the fact that I am not trying to be rdw- and although fast kills are possible I really want as many options as possible post board wipers. First strike is rather nifty in red too, hence encampment. The mutavaults are a concession to etched champions as much as anything, and I waver between 2 and 3. I do not feel they are essential. But having played this deck a bit, and even a boros human tribal deck I can vouch for the quality of cavern of souls in the format at present. I am an aethervial/d and t player at heart, and so appreciate the power of uncounterability. And in tribal decks this card shines like no other against the urw aggro control and straight control decks as well as uw resto angel decks and even scapeshift and other combo decks that use remand.
Splash white and play Rule of Law.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77