Your T5+ % is much higher than mine was in 80 games. Do you feel the manabase was a contributing factor? I will finish my 100 goldfish games after work and provide an update.
Nah. Just bad draws. Manabase has worked pretty good.
I'll try to tweak with those cards too. I'm thinking on cutting those Atarka's and adding some Fury of the Horde.
That sounds viable. Please keep sharing!
I wonder if fury is worth it without piledriver? We shall see!
@Diemos - looks like a good starting list! Begin working towards some goblin guides
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Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
I'd consider cutting Atarka for 2 Devastating Summons. Pumps both Swiftspear and FSD, castable T2 (with SSG) or T3, and provides an alpha strike for 8 to 10 damage for just 2 cards when combined with either of the Bushwhackers.
I would take out Raging Goblin and put in Vexing Devil, so far he has been excellent in my testing with a similar but Gruul version of your deck. I'm starting to realize Goblin Piledriver should be more of sideboard card all things considered. There are matches when he's amazing and matches where he just dies the turn I play him. Warren Weirding should be in the sideboard slot, there's really no need for that card mainboard, it's really only good against hexproof creatures. Dragonskull Summit should become Blackcleave Cliffs and Sulfurous Springs should become BloodStained Mire. Also consider removing at least 2x Mountain and add in Blood Crypt's if you can. Other than that everything looks solid.
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Modern: B 8Rack RX Goblins BG Elves (Attempting) UBW Mill G Stompy UB Tezzerator
Legacy: W Stax
I'd consider cutting Atarka for 2 Devastating Summons. Pumps both Swiftspear and FSD, castable T2 (with SSG) or T3, and provides an alpha strike for 8 to 10 damage for just 2 cards when combined with either of the Bushwhackers.
That's a nice idea. Maybe better than adding Fury on this list. I'll try.
Fury shines when there is something that triggers on attack (e.g. Signal Pest or Goblin Piledriver), so that you can double-dip. Also, I don't think it will be optimal with a decklist that casts a ton of free spells (hence will have fewer cards in hand), and carries 4 non-red cards.
I'd consider cutting Atarka for 2 Devastating Summons. Pumps both Swiftspear and FSD, castable T2 (with SSG) or T3, and provides an alpha strike for 8 to 10 damage for just 2 cards when combined with either of the Bushwhackers.
That's a nice idea. Maybe better than adding Fury on this list. I'll try.
Fury shines when there is something that triggers on attack (e.g. Signal Pest or Goblin Piledriver), so that you can double-dip. Also, I don't think it will be optimal with a decklist that casts a ton of free spells (hence will have fewer cards in hand), and carries 4 non-red cards.
The cantrip colors (red or otherwise) do not matter. They replace themselves. The blue one is entirely free. Cantrips are not a reason to not think of trying fury in such a build - the lack of abusable "on attack" effects like piledriver is, however.
Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
The cantrip colors (red or otherwise) do not matter. They replace themselves. The blue one is entirely free. Cantrips are not a reason to not think of trying fury in such a build - the lack of abusable "on attack" effects like piledriver is, however.
Statistically, I think seeing a red card in hand is better than seeing a blue cantrip that replaces itself. A cantrip you chose to not mulligan still has about a ~25% chance to draw a land, which is useless for Fury.
I would take out Raging Goblin and put in Vexing Devil, so far he has been excellent in my testing with a similar but Gruul version of your deck. I'm starting to realize Goblin Piledriver should be more of sideboard card all things considered. There are matches when he's amazing and matches where he just dies the turn I play him. Warren Weirding should be in the sideboard slot, there's really no need for that card mainboard, it's really only good against hexproof creatures. Dragonskull Summit should become Blackcleave Cliffs and Sulfurous Springs should become BloodStained Mire. Also consider removing at least 2x Mountain and add in Blood Crypt's if you can. Other than that everything looks solid.
Thanks a lot! I forgot to mention I was trying to keep it somewhat budget, but I'll see what I can implement and if not, build towards based on your feedback.
I'm digging all these reckless bushwhacker builds. Personally, I've waited to do anything more than theorycraft until I can go onto MTGO and do some live game playtesting, but I'm excited. I have three questions for us all...
1. How sure are we that Reckless is good enough that we dedicate all of the "non-core" slots to running it+ the cards that enable it? The goldfishing looks amazingly good, but to be frank, every goblin deck looks amazing in a goldfish scenario.
2. Does the strength of reckless push us towards pure go-wide strategies (token oriented builds) or even one that runs Kuldotha Rebirth? I'm salivating over the notion of running Shrapnel Blast
3. If you are interested in adding each other on MTGO for playtesting, would you post your screenname? I'm TopDeckTown on MTGO.
1. Not entirely sure. Ive goldfished hundreds of games with goblins and often golddfishing is not far off from actual games the first three turns.
2. I think there are many ways to brew with reckless. My goblin surge build is just the first direction i have gone. Id love to see a goblins and robots list too!
3. No mtgo yet fir me
Update on the goldfishing:
T2- 0%
T3- 50%
T4- 37%
T5- 13%
Flooded- 11
Mana screw- 8
Mulliganed games- 10
Going to try the list as is for fnm except:
-1 reckless, +1 atarkas
Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
@Franx @jedidad and anyone else able to play MTGO. I created a Modern Goblins clan on MTGO and will be adding anyone to it that indicates their MTGO name.
Also, can anyone tell me how to post a deck on here? I see how to insert this...
Have any links for "mtgo for noobs?" Ive been wanting to do it for a while now. How much $ are tix?
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Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
$1 dollar per ticket, it's hard to get into. If you are ready to drop like 150-200 bucks, you can make gobos, but goblin guide is ridiculous online right now.
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Modern: B 8Rack RX Goblins BG Elves (Attempting) UBW Mill G Stompy UB Tezzerator
Legacy: W Stax
However, I'd just add that I think the easiest way to get into MTGO (financially speaking) is to take some $$ cards from your personal collection and trade them in to capefeargames via the mail. If you go for MTGO credit, they give you +20% more than the sell price listed. They give you a gift certificate to use on their sister site, MTGOtraders.com (one of the best). Furthermore, you can get -10% off from your purchase their by using the code "cedricpaypal" at checkout.
In terms of learning how to use MTGO effectively, the best way is to have someone show you. I'd be happy to do a skype screen share with you to show you how. In fact, that might be a good way to do playtesting as a small group anyway. If you are interested, I'll send you a private message.
However, I'd just add that I think the easiest way to get into MTGO (financially speaking) is to take some $$ cards from your personal collection and trade them in to capefeargames via the mail. If you go for MTGO credit, they give you +20% more than the sell price listed. They give you a gift certificate to use on their sister site, MTGOtraders.com (one of the best). Furthermore, you can get -10% off from your purchase their by using the code "cedricpaypal" at checkout.
In terms of learning how to use MTGO effectively, the best way is to have someone show you. I'd be happy to do a skype screen share with you to show you how. In fact, that might be a good way to do playtesting as a small group anyway. If you are interested, I'll send you a private message.
Thanks! Once i confirm finances ill consider it strongly
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Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Mana base: 14 Mountains + 4 SSG (never had problems to cast Atarka).
Results from goldfishing 50 games:
T2 Wins = 0
T3 Wins = 34 (68%)
T4 Wins = 16 (32%)
6 games = manaflood (12%)
2 games = manascrew (4%)
4 games = mulligan to 6 (8%)
Notes:
- Tailor + Mutagenic is OP.
- In this build FSD just slows us. Best decision ever cutting him. It's weird but I just prefer to cast a Bolt on T1 If I don't have Guide/Tailor. I guess having Bolts instead of FSD gives us a nice boost on those games we got Tailor. Otherwise I can't explain the T3 win rate doing this.
- It's hard to know when to mulligan but I'm getting the trick
Tailor? ---- Swiftspear?
What's the list look like all together. I can't ignore numbers like that, I'm in to test this version as well. Looks suhweeeeet.
Mana base: 14 Mountains + 4 SSG (never had problems to cast Atarka).
Results from goldfishing 50 games:
T2 Wins = 0
T3 Wins = 34 (68%)
T4 Wins = 16 (32%)
6 games = manaflood (12%)
2 games = manascrew (4%)
4 games = mulligan to 6 (8%)
Notes:
- Tailor + Mutagenic is OP.
- In this build FSD just slows us. Best decision ever cutting him. It's weird but I just prefer to cast a Bolt on T1 If I don't have Guide/Tailor. I guess having Bolts instead of FSD gives us a nice boost on those games we got Tailor. Otherwise I can't explain the T3 win rate doing this.
- It's hard to know when to mulligan but I'm getting the trick
Well that's an interesting turn of events! These numbers excite! So essentially you added 8 more burn spells, removing 4 cantrips and 4 FSD.
How was Mutagenic when you didn't have a swiftspear?
In my testing I have found FSD to be very consistent - often getting out 5 damage or more when dropped on T1. Dropping him past T1 with a bushwhacker has also been a good play for me. How much of that T3% do you think was contributed by lightning bolt to the face? I do like the inclusion of more spells in the deck, but without four of the cantrips I feel that the creature count is a bit low to justify 8 bushwhackers. These are just thoughts. I will have to test the changes you made to see what is going on!
Why no fetches/stomping ground in the land base?
Dude - thanks for your hard work. Getting excited to get my bushwhackers friday and stroll into FNM with some version of this deck lol
Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
So, I had some time to goldfish my semi-budget token goblin deck yesterday while the wife was on a business trip and the toddler was asleep. Here is the decklist I went with:
I tried both 3/3 and 2/4 reckless-pest split. Fished a somewhat limited amount of games (20 with 3/3, 10 with 4/2), but there wasn't too much variability anyhow. Sadly, in both cases this is a T4 deck (T3, 20%, T4, 60%, T5+, 20% in both cases).
Quick thoughts: When Devastating Summons is good, it's good. The problem is I had too many games when it was sitting in my hand with and I either lacked 3 mana, or a haste enabler. Not sure how I feel about the card.
Also feel like something is off with my mix 1-drops (other than the obvious lack of Goblin Guide), as I was left swinging with 2-3 toothpicks too often for my liking, resulting in a couple of narrowly missed T3 wins. However, I'm still not shelling $120 for a playset of GGs.
Speaking of storm goblins, I ran into this interesting budget brew, submitted by someone named Robbie Tulip to a MTG.com article several years back. Deck was dubbed "Creature Storm".
That sounds viable. Please keep sharing!
I wonder if fury is worth it without piledriver? We shall see!
@Diemos - looks like a good starting list! Begin working towards some goblin guides
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
Modern:
B 8Rack
RX Goblins
BG Elves (Attempting)
UBW Mill
G Stompy
UB Tezzerator
Legacy:
W Stax
Fury shines when there is something that triggers on attack (e.g. Signal Pest or Goblin Piledriver), so that you can double-dip. Also, I don't think it will be optimal with a decklist that casts a ton of free spells (hence will have fewer cards in hand), and carries 4 non-red cards.
The cantrip colors (red or otherwise) do not matter. They replace themselves. The blue one is entirely free. Cantrips are not a reason to not think of trying fury in such a build - the lack of abusable "on attack" effects like piledriver is, however.
Yeah, Devastating Summons is on my short list of cards to try.
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
Statistically, I think seeing a red card in hand is better than seeing a blue cantrip that replaces itself. A cantrip you chose to not mulligan still has about a ~25% chance to draw a land, which is useless for Fury.
Thanks a lot! I forgot to mention I was trying to keep it somewhat budget, but I'll see what I can implement and if not, build towards based on your feedback.
1. How sure are we that Reckless is good enough that we dedicate all of the "non-core" slots to running it+ the cards that enable it? The goldfishing looks amazingly good, but to be frank, every goblin deck looks amazing in a goldfish scenario.
2. Does the strength of reckless push us towards pure go-wide strategies (token oriented builds) or even one that runs Kuldotha Rebirth? I'm salivating over the notion of running Shrapnel Blast
3. If you are interested in adding each other on MTGO for playtesting, would you post your screenname? I'm TopDeckTown on MTGO.
2. I think there are many ways to brew with reckless. My goblin surge build is just the first direction i have gone. Id love to see a goblins and robots list too!
3. No mtgo yet fir me
Update on the goldfishing:
T2- 0%
T3- 50%
T4- 37%
T5- 13%
Flooded- 11
Mana screw- 8
Mulliganed games- 10
Going to try the list as is for fnm except:
-1 reckless, +1 atarkas
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
Modern:
B 8Rack
RX Goblins
BG Elves (Attempting)
UBW Mill
G Stompy
UB Tezzerator
Legacy:
W Stax
Also, can anyone tell me how to post a deck on here? I see how to insert this...
But how do I add cards to it?
Have any links for "mtgo for noobs?" Ive been wanting to do it for a while now. How much $ are tix?
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
Modern:
B 8Rack
RX Goblins
BG Elves (Attempting)
UBW Mill
G Stompy
UB Tezzerator
Legacy:
W Stax
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/magic-online-formats/188846-community-beginners-guide-to-mtgo
However, I'd just add that I think the easiest way to get into MTGO (financially speaking) is to take some $$ cards from your personal collection and trade them in to capefeargames via the mail. If you go for MTGO credit, they give you +20% more than the sell price listed. They give you a gift certificate to use on their sister site, MTGOtraders.com (one of the best). Furthermore, you can get -10% off from your purchase their by using the code "cedricpaypal" at checkout.
In terms of learning how to use MTGO effectively, the best way is to have someone show you. I'd be happy to do a skype screen share with you to show you how. In fact, that might be a good way to do playtesting as a small group anyway. If you are interested, I'll send you a private message.
Thanks! Once i confirm finances ill consider it strongly
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
Just to clarify, are you only casting Atarka's Command off of BTE?
Tailor? ---- Swiftspear?
What's the list look like all together. I can't ignore numbers like that, I'm in to test this version as well. Looks suhweeeeet.
Well that's an interesting turn of events! These numbers excite! So essentially you added 8 more burn spells, removing 4 cantrips and 4 FSD.
How was Mutagenic when you didn't have a swiftspear?
In my testing I have found FSD to be very consistent - often getting out 5 damage or more when dropped on T1. Dropping him past T1 with a bushwhacker has also been a good play for me. How much of that T3% do you think was contributed by lightning bolt to the face? I do like the inclusion of more spells in the deck, but without four of the cantrips I feel that the creature count is a bit low to justify 8 bushwhackers. These are just thoughts. I will have to test the changes you made to see what is going on!
Why no fetches/stomping ground in the land base?
Dude - thanks for your hard work. Getting excited to get my bushwhackers friday and stroll into FNM with some version of this deck lol
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
4x Foundry Street Denizen
4x Goblin Bushwhacker
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
4x Legion Loyalist
4x Monastery Swiftspear
3x Reckless Bushwhacker
3x Signal Pest
2x Devastating Summons
4x Goblin Grenade
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Krenko's Command
4x Dragon Fodder
14 Mountain
4 Simian Spirit Guide
I tried both 3/3 and 2/4 reckless-pest split. Fished a somewhat limited amount of games (20 with 3/3, 10 with 4/2), but there wasn't too much variability anyhow. Sadly, in both cases this is a T4 deck (T3, 20%, T4, 60%, T5+, 20% in both cases).
Quick thoughts: When Devastating Summons is good, it's good. The problem is I had too many games when it was sitting in my hand with and I either lacked 3 mana, or a haste enabler. Not sure how I feel about the card.
Also feel like something is off with my mix 1-drops (other than the obvious lack of Goblin Guide), as I was left swinging with 2-3 toothpicks too often for my liking, resulting in a couple of narrowly missed T3 wins. However, I'm still not shelling $120 for a playset of GGs.
Speaking of storm goblins, I ran into this interesting budget brew, submitted by someone named Robbie Tulip to a MTG.com article several years back. Deck was dubbed "Creature Storm".
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
3 Myr Superion
4 Priest of Urabrask
4 Storm Entity
2 Empty the Warrens
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Lightning Bolt
4 Manamorphose
4 Pyretic Ritual