Honestly - does this make cards like Rabblemaster or Chieftain more viable? Being able to tap out on turn three is now possible in this format.
As for decks rising in Twin's absence, I would assume Affinity and Tron will rise in the short term and Infect will be a reaction to that. After things start to 'stabilize' it's anyone's guess. MANY brews gain a significant amount of viability in the format (people can tap out safely for Tezzeret for instance). Big changes are coming. Big.
This is exactly what I expect from post-twin-ban-modern as well, a spike in Tron/Affinity, then who knows what. I believe we might see new decks, but another prediction I can make is a dip in BGx decks (due to rise of Tron), and lots of Eldrazi.
Junk is going rise up quickly. However I think Zoo is gonna start making a comeback. Tron/Affinity will be on top, that we all agree on. If that is the case, we can replace our sideboard rending volleys for possibly more creature control? Forked bolt is a great example of a card against Affinity early game. We can add more goblins to the sideboard to hose out certain decks.
Also if there are more board wipes to become present in the format,should we consider the Boros Goblin approach and splash for Boros Charm?
I am really surprised they banned splinter twin. So many people spent so much money to build that deck. A lot of people are going to be really pissed. Maybe a bigger goblins build will be more viable now like the rb vial goblins.
we just need better goblins. twin banning doesnt change anything i guess. even after board i feel affinity is super bad for goblins, and they will even rise. just like other creature based decks that play with cards that just have a bigger butt and block our dudes.
we just need better goblins. twin banning doesnt change anything i guess. even after board i feel affinity is super bad for goblins, and they will even rise. just like other creature based decks that play with cards that just have a bigger butt and block our dudes.
Affinity is a much easier win for us than twin I think. Especially after sideboard. If more ago decks become the norm I think med rages turn 3 may be the better way to go. Kill me before they can get a board state
I honestly think twin being gone makes no lords worse in the meta. Twin did a great job keeping creatures+creatures.dec down, and i believe this opens the door to a lot of jank decks that block well like vampires, stompy, kithkin, knights, werewolves, etc that are going to be playing on the same axis as us but bigger. If, however, the meta does become tron vs affinity vs infect i think we're in a really good spot with 4 MB fanatics.
I honestly think twin being gone makes no lords worse in the meta. Twin did a great job keeping creatures+creatures.dec down, and i believe this opens the door to a lot of jank decks that block well like vampires, stompy, kithkin, knights, werewolves, etc that are going to be playing on the same axis as us but bigger. If, however, the meta does become tron vs affinity vs infect i think we're in a really good spot with 4 MB fanatics.
That's all certainly possible. I think 2x Forked Bolt and an Electrickery in the side is sounding nice.
Has anyone tested gitaxian probes in their reckless bushwhacker builds? I just started jamming four copies and its been very very good. The timing of when to use the probe is not easy though - takes some insight.
Ive started work on a very very agressive build of goblins now - so aggressive i have cut lightning bolts (for now) as an experimental test. So far the turn 3 wins have been flowing. Not using fury or chancellor... Ill provide an update and list with some more testing to share with the group. Its been fun, regardless.
I think that twin being gone is good for the deck overall. The removal those decks had was very hard to combat. Harder than decks with a ton of bockers. I started boarding in two dolmen gates against decks like coco and zoo and its been awesome. Gate chains very nicely off of BTE. Affinity is a match I have yet to lose. If they dont draw their one sided board wipe i believe we have the upper hand. Tron has their pyroclasms, but blood moon can slow them down enough to win. Its not a card they auto lose to, but if you combine a moon with a lot of pressure they likely wont be able to deal woth both before you kill them.
All in all i would say that the bannings were a victory for aggro decks all around, including goblins. Affinity and zoo probably most of all though. And tron. Tron wins too. Nothing we cannot handle after some alight shifts in sideboarding. Cant wait to fill all that empty space
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Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
I will once i have something that is slightly more ironed out. I want to test it some more before i go ahead and throw the list out there. Unless you just want to see where im at? Im pretty early in my bushwhacker testing yet.
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Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
I wouldn't play Probe or other free spells (Manamorphose, Bauble) just because of Reckless Bushwhacker. You need a board presence in order for Bushwhacker to be any good. Being able to slam Bushwhacker on turn 2 is no good if you only have one other creature in play.
What I would look at is increasing the number of 1-drops in the deck. T1 1-drop, T2 token maker, T3 1-drop + Bushwhacker is a great aggressive curve. The 1-drop that you cast on turn 3 even gets to attack because Bushwhacker gives it haste. Preferably the 1-drop(s) that you're adding is a creature and not Goblin Grenade, because, again, board presence - Grenading means one less creature for Bushwhacker to pump.
Izzet, Free spells that replace themselves don't hurt the deck beyond the life loss to cast them - in fact they increase the density of good goblins in the deck. So far, probe has helped my deck in consistency a lot, and enables reckless bushwhacker. These cards are very much so worth testing. I have tested gitaxian probe so far and have had good results, and I am moving on to testing manamorphose as well. Manamorphose has the added benefit of "fixing" the mana you get off of burning-tree emissary so you can cast two red spells, or goblin bushwhacker. And it replaces itself, while enabling reckless bushwhacker. The only downside to manamorphose is that you must draw two mana sources to use it. So far this has not been an issue.
Okay, my first shot at a reckless bushwhacker build with testing. I know I posted other lists before (in planning stage), but once I sat down to actually play a couple of games, this is where I started:
I goldfished a few games just to see what was going on, and after I was pleased. Then I played two games against abzan company and turn 3 win both games in a row. Played another match and went 1-1. Strangely, I did not miss lightning bolt, as I felt the deck was so fast that other creatures just did not matter anymore. It was kind of like playing goblin-storm, which is probably what I would call the deck lol. Mogg fanatic sort of became trivial, so it got me thinking - with all of these free cantripping spells, why not go for some monastery swiftspears? So I went back to the drawing board and created the following list after some more goldfishing. Unfortunately I dont have an opponent to test with all the time. (working on learning Xmage)
Now, this deack REALLY goes off like a creature storm deck. Sequencing is even harder. Knowing when to crack a cantrip is tricky - you need to set up big plays. This is not optimized, and it might not even be right. Feel free to try it out! It is not really ready for too much critique as I said before, but it is a solid starting point for this sort of build.
Lightning Bolt got the axe, yes. Not sure, but it feels good.
15 lands and 3 SSG has worked well in goldfishing, especially with 8 cantrips. This I like a lot about the deck. Manamorphose off of a BTE is awesome.
I kind of miss having Piledriver in my deck.
Monastery swiftspear is basically a Goblin Guide in this deck, without the downside. It can grow as big as a tarmogoyf very easily. So can FSD.
Anyway - these are my current thoughts - happy brewing peeps! Glad I took a break from my love affair with Eldrazi - gotta get ready for February.
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Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
In goldfishing the second list i posted above has been very very consistent. I wish i had more red fetches because i would go with the following manabase if so:
10x fetch
4x mountain
1x stomping ground
This might scale better with all the cantripping...
Monastery swiftspear has been beastly. Sequencing is next level with this prticular brew.
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Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
I have a good friend who recently started brewing Goblins. He played Rabble Red at the end of RTR-Theros and was itching for it again.
He decided to throw in Goblin Rabblemaster since without Twin, it isn't a death sentence to tap out on T3. I know a 3 mana 2/2 that dies to Bolt still isn't always great. I played Burn, Infect and Affinity against his list and he did pretty well all three times (beating Infect and barely beating Affinity). What do you guys think of Rabble in a post-Twin world?
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Modern GU Infect | x Affinity | RWG Naya Burn | W Death and Taxes | U Merfolk | BURG BTL Scapeshift | WUUW Titan | R Goblins | BURGW Suicide Zoo
Zinamogg you might be right. I took one out just because it felt wrong to go to 14 lands and i wanted 18 mana sources. Glad you like the build :). Ive had a lot of fun tinkering so far
I am not a fan of rabblemaster in any meta personally... The stuff we have going right now is just so much better for the mana investment. Its a decent card though... I just have a bias against the "other goblins must attack" clause. Ive never wanted to run it in any of my builds for that reason
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Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
I got all the cards and I've played some games against my gf to test it. Stable enough to win her vs his Infect & Elves without losing any single game. Had to mulligan once but not a big deal tho.
BOOYAH
How was it playing without bolt? How was the mana?
Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
As for decks rising in Twin's absence, I would assume Affinity and Tron will rise in the short term and Infect will be a reaction to that. After things start to 'stabilize' it's anyone's guess. MANY brews gain a significant amount of viability in the format (people can tap out safely for Tezzeret for instance). Big changes are coming. Big.
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
Also if there are more board wipes to become present in the format,should we consider the Boros Goblin approach and splash for Boros Charm?
It's gonna be an interesting month.
Modern:
B 8Rack
RX Goblins
BG Elves (Attempting)
UBW Mill
G Stompy
UB Tezzerator
Legacy:
W Stax
That's all certainly possible. I think 2x Forked Bolt and an Electrickery in the side is sounding nice.
Ive started work on a very very agressive build of goblins now - so aggressive i have cut lightning bolts (for now) as an experimental test. So far the turn 3 wins have been flowing. Not using fury or chancellor... Ill provide an update and list with some more testing to share with the group. Its been fun, regardless.
I think that twin being gone is good for the deck overall. The removal those decks had was very hard to combat. Harder than decks with a ton of bockers. I started boarding in two dolmen gates against decks like coco and zoo and its been awesome. Gate chains very nicely off of BTE. Affinity is a match I have yet to lose. If they dont draw their one sided board wipe i believe we have the upper hand. Tron has their pyroclasms, but blood moon can slow them down enough to win. Its not a card they auto lose to, but if you combine a moon with a lot of pressure they likely wont be able to deal woth both before you kill them.
All in all i would say that the bannings were a victory for aggro decks all around, including goblins. Affinity and zoo probably most of all though. And tron. Tron wins too. Nothing we cannot handle after some alight shifts in sideboarding. Cant wait to fill all that empty space
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
What I would look at is increasing the number of 1-drops in the deck. T1 1-drop, T2 token maker, T3 1-drop + Bushwhacker is a great aggressive curve. The 1-drop that you cast on turn 3 even gets to attack because Bushwhacker gives it haste. Preferably the 1-drop(s) that you're adding is a creature and not Goblin Grenade, because, again, board presence - Grenading means one less creature for Bushwhacker to pump.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Okay, my first shot at a reckless bushwhacker build with testing. I know I posted other lists before (in planning stage), but once I sat down to actually play a couple of games, this is where I started:
2x Mogg Fanatic
4x Foundry Street Denizen
4x Goblin Guide
4x Legion Loyalist
4x Goblin Bushwhacker
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
3x Mogg War Marshal
3x Reckless Bushwhacker
4x Gitaxian Probe
2x Mutagenic Growth
4x Goblin Grenade
2x Atarka's Command
Mana (20):
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Copperline Gorge
3x Mountain
1x Stomping Ground
I goldfished a few games just to see what was going on, and after I was pleased. Then I played two games against abzan company and turn 3 win both games in a row. Played another match and went 1-1. Strangely, I did not miss lightning bolt, as I felt the deck was so fast that other creatures just did not matter anymore. It was kind of like playing goblin-storm, which is probably what I would call the deck lol. Mogg fanatic sort of became trivial, so it got me thinking - with all of these free cantripping spells, why not go for some monastery swiftspears? So I went back to the drawing board and created the following list after some more goldfishing. Unfortunately I dont have an opponent to test with all the time. (working on learning Xmage)
4x Foundry Street Denizen
4x Goblin Bushwhacker
4x Goblin Guide
4x Legion Loyalist
4x Monastery Swiftspear
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
4x Reckless Bushwhacker
Spells (14):
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Goblin Grenade
2x Atarka's Command
4x Manamorphose
3x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Wooded Foothills
3x Copperline Gorge
3x Mountain
1x Stomping Ground
2x Electrickery
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Ancient Grudge
2x Dolmen Gate
3x Blood Moon
2x Everlasting Torment
Now, this deack REALLY goes off like a creature storm deck. Sequencing is even harder. Knowing when to crack a cantrip is tricky - you need to set up big plays. This is not optimized, and it might not even be right. Feel free to try it out! It is not really ready for too much critique as I said before, but it is a solid starting point for this sort of build.
Lightning Bolt got the axe, yes. Not sure, but it feels good.
15 lands and 3 SSG has worked well in goldfishing, especially with 8 cantrips. This I like a lot about the deck. Manamorphose off of a BTE is awesome.
I kind of miss having Piledriver in my deck.
Monastery swiftspear is basically a Goblin Guide in this deck, without the downside. It can grow as big as a tarmogoyf very easily. So can FSD.
Anyway - these are my current thoughts - happy brewing peeps! Glad I took a break from my love affair with Eldrazi - gotta get ready for February.
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
10x fetch
4x mountain
1x stomping ground
This might scale better with all the cantripping...
Monastery swiftspear has been beastly. Sequencing is next level with this prticular brew.
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
He decided to throw in Goblin Rabblemaster since without Twin, it isn't a death sentence to tap out on T3. I know a 3 mana 2/2 that dies to Bolt still isn't always great. I played Burn, Infect and Affinity against his list and he did pretty well all three times (beating Infect and barely beating Affinity). What do you guys think of Rabble in a post-Twin world?
GU Infect | x Affinity | RWG Naya Burn | W Death and Taxes | U Merfolk | BURG BTL Scapeshift | WUUW Titan | R Goblins | BURGW Suicide Zoo
I am not a fan of rabblemaster in any meta personally... The stuff we have going right now is just so much better for the mana investment. Its a decent card though... I just have a bias against the "other goblins must attack" clause. Ive never wanted to run it in any of my builds for that reason
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
BOOYAH
How was it playing without bolt? How was the mana?
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague