My anecdote beginning to play with this deck is very sad and amusing. Put together a list last night on Cockatrice maindecking a couple Pithing Needle, 4 Spiritdancer + 2 Keen sense, 19 lands counting Arbor.
First game, opponent plops down a T1 Birds. Thought nothing of it, went for T2 Spirit Mantle on Bogle so I could swing in immediately (in hindsight I play Keen Sense because why would he block anyway but whatever). He plays T2 Liliana. -_- But it's cool because he doesn't have anymore removal and I get myself back in it with Spiritdancer zooming through my deck. Unfortunately, nine lands later I found myself unable to answer Olivia Voldaren when I didn't have the gas to make my Scout bigger than my would-be stolen Spiritdancer.
Next game no dudes in opening seven. Mull to six no dudes, mull to five no dudes... decided to keep and hope to rip dudes because it's otherwise a pretty good hand. I know the deck can mull to 4 but it's so risky, particularly against Liliana and my hand was otherwise good enough I didn't want to chance it. I forfeit on Turn 6 when I drew my sixth land and not one dude yet (besides an easily-killed Dryad Arbor I fetched up in vain).
Play some other guy. T1 Bogle, T2 Hyena + Spider Umbras. I never drew another nonland card as I quite easily failed to whittle away at my opponent three damage at a time, getting chump blocked more than once too, before T7 Violent Outburst into Living End spelled defeat. (He left after the one game.)
Seriously come on now, how unlucky do I have to be to flood out 3-for-3 with a 19-land deck? I had to quit for the night after that last game, I mean obviously the luck gods just did not want me to win.
First off, I don't think you should play with 19 lands. 20-21 is good. And if you are playing games past T5 and you don't have an obvious advantage... there is a low chance you will win the game.
mana tithe isn't good if the game goes on longer than 4-5 turns. I'd rather have removal for that one creature that's going to kill me now, than the counter for the one that'll kill me next turn. Especially when that counters is easily paid for.
Sorry its been a while since I check in on this thread.
If you go to turn 4 or 5 and you still need mana tithe, you probably are not winning that game anyway.
It is about the meta though. I watched a ton of people tap out in KC where mana tithe would have been good u till turn 5 maybe 6. It works for me is all I am saying.
I have a general question for those playing the deck in paper:
How do you lay out your Auras? Do you put them all underneath the creature, or do you just lay them out on the table, since you will most likely only be having one enchanted creature anyways? Also: am i allowed to do this?
Also: What are your thoughts on Unflinching Courage. Is this playable as a 2-off to top the curve, or do you think Spirit Link is good enough? Link does not provide any bonus, which kind of bugs me....
I have a general question for those playing the deck in paper:
How do you lay out your Auras? Do you put them all underneath the creature, or do you just lay them out on the table, since you will most likely only be having one enchanted creature anyways? Also: am i allowed to do this?
Also: What are your thoughts on Unflinching Courage. Is this playable as a 2-off to top the curve, or do you think Spirit Link is good enough? Link does not provide any bonus, which kind of bugs me....
Link is played because you can enchant other people's goyfs as well and it stacks with Daybreak. Unflinching is meh imo. I really don't want to play any 3 drops in this deck unless we are running Noble Hierarchs. I believe people tried that out and decided it wasn't worth it. I think it's okay but still am firm about not running 3 drops.
I just feel like Spirit Link often does nothing....
What would you count as alternatives, that also pump?
How does it do nothing? It's not maindeck. It's sideboard at best and right now a lot of people don't even use it for sideboard. I don't know why you want to search for different pumps so badly. If you played the deck that's the least of our problems. Our problems are pretty much getting a Bogle out in the first hand and dealing with problems like land D, Spellskite, and faster combo.
Maybe i need to go into detail a bit more:
Regarding Aggro and Burn, you can not rely on drawing Corronet and resolving it. Especially versus RDW and or Burn i had a hard time. Also Gruul Aggro can go lethal on you as fast as Bogle can, so if they are on the play, it can get iffy.
That's why i included 2 Spirit Link, which i then found to be somewhat dead when not playing versus Aggro or Burn, so i tried out Unflinching Courage. I agree though, that cmc3 is asked a bit much, even though i could land it quite often.
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The great Eldrazi Overlords will return to the Modern World.
Silhana Ledgewalker is cheaper, semi-unblockable and has the magic word "hexproof" on it.
Ledgewalker is just the bees knees.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
My meta has turned all gr tron and living end. I think I've got gr figured out but feel like the living end matchup is bad. Any suggestions would be appreciated. At the moment I'm running a set of sun and moon, looking at chalice, crypt, and maybe rip as additional hate.
My meta has turned all gr tron and living end. I think I've got gr figured out but feel like the living end matchup is bad. Any suggestions would be appreciated. At the moment I'm running a set of sun and moon, looking at chalice, crypt, and maybe rip as additional hate.
Thanks
I think Wheel of Sun and Moon is bad against Living End because they've probably cycled at least 1 guy already if you're on the play and you stick it on Turn 2. They've cycled 2-4 creatures already if you stick it on Turn 2 on the draw.
Of the other yard hate you named, I'd go with Rest in Peace against Living End. They can board in all the Ingot Chewers they want against you, but they're not booting RIP with them. You also get to smoke out any creatures they already cycled with RIP. (Boosting Ethereal Armor is nice.)
So if your meta has a lot of Jund and stuff that plays Lilianas, playing Fist of Ironwood may be your best bet.
Burrenton Forge-Tender loses to the most popular removal spell in the format, Path to Exile. Kor Spiritdancer does too, but we still trade her AND the card we drew AND a basic land for their PTE. 3-for-1 is fine in my book, and assuming we keep her she's just all sorts of value. I only run two, but I'm thinking of going to three and dropping Silhana Ledgewalker to one.
I've considered Seal of Primordium but as has already been stated, one mana vs two is huge, I'd never consider going to three in a deck that should run (at most) 19 lands. (I'm talking to you, Damping Matrix)
Every card that costs more than one either has card advantage, built in evasion, or is sideboard tech that answers several threats at once. Or it's Daybreak Coronet, which is kind of a category all by itself =)
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DFW L1 judge
Apparently 'Just getting started' still applies even though I've been on here since 2008...
I think Wheel of Sun and Moon is bad against Living End because they've probably cycled at least 1 guy already if you're on the play and you stick it on Turn 2. They've cycled 2-4 creatures already if you stick it on Turn 2 on the draw.
Also, Wheel gives them the chance to continuously Living End, since as the spell resolves it goes to the bottom of their library. All they have to do is cycle for land, play the creatures, and wrath the board again and again if necessary. They play more creatures than we do, plus theirs are bigger. We rely on enchantments to make ours bigger or unblockable and this would be untenable.
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Ben Q
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Apparently 'Just getting started' still applies even though I've been on here since 2008...
Also, Wheel gives them the chance to continuously Living End, since as the spell resolves it goes to the bottom of their library. All they have to do is cycle for land, play the creatures, and wrath the board again and again if necessary. They play more creatures than we do, plus theirs are bigger. We rely on enchantments to make ours bigger or unblockable and this would be untenable.
The problem is Living End has more than Living End. Fumilnator Mage hits us hard if we haven't stabilize yet then we have to worry about Living End itself which wipes our board.
Yeah, the combination of fulminantor and beast within makes things tricky. Played a small modern event, 28 players, ran 2 tormods and 3 rip, won the 1 living end matchup, but the guy never managed to get the spell off. He did make it interesting when he started blowing up lands.
I was wrong about gr tron, got rolled by it both times I saw it, running 3 suppression, 2 stony, and 2 seal in the side. Suppression doesn't do much if they assemble the lands early, best bet was to try and race before they could board wipe. Maybe it should be 3 stony 2 suppression.
Thanks for the tip on sun and moon, hadn't thought about the perpetual cycle it would enable.
First off, I don't think you should play with 19 lands. 20-21 is good. And if you are playing games past T5 and you don't have an obvious advantage... there is a low chance you will win the game.
Sexy Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios
EDH
G Isao
Sorry its been a while since I check in on this thread.
If you go to turn 4 or 5 and you still need mana tithe, you probably are not winning that game anyway.
It is about the meta though. I watched a ton of people tap out in KC where mana tithe would have been good u till turn 5 maybe 6. It works for me is all I am saying.
How do you lay out your Auras? Do you put them all underneath the creature, or do you just lay them out on the table, since you will most likely only be having one enchanted creature anyways? Also: am i allowed to do this?
Also: What are your thoughts on Unflinching Courage. Is this playable as a 2-off to top the curve, or do you think Spirit Link is good enough? Link does not provide any bonus, which kind of bugs me....
Link is played because you can enchant other people's goyfs as well and it stacks with Daybreak. Unflinching is meh imo. I really don't want to play any 3 drops in this deck unless we are running Noble Hierarchs. I believe people tried that out and decided it wasn't worth it. I think it's okay but still am firm about not running 3 drops.
Sexy Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios
EDH
G Isao
What would you count as alternatives, that also pump?
How does it do nothing? It's not maindeck. It's sideboard at best and right now a lot of people don't even use it for sideboard. I don't know why you want to search for different pumps so badly. If you played the deck that's the least of our problems. Our problems are pretty much getting a Bogle out in the first hand and dealing with problems like land D, Spellskite, and faster combo.
Sexy Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios
EDH
G Isao
Regarding Aggro and Burn, you can not rely on drawing Corronet and resolving it. Especially versus RDW and or Burn i had a hard time. Also Gruul Aggro can go lethal on you as fast as Bogle can, so if they are on the play, it can get iffy.
That's why i included 2 Spirit Link, which i then found to be somewhat dead when not playing versus Aggro or Burn, so i tried out Unflinching Courage. I agree though, that cmc3 is asked a bit much, even though i could land it quite often.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Ledgewalker is just the bees knees.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
Thanks
4 Mantis Rider
4 Seeker of the Way
3 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Soulfire Grand Master
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Flooded Strand
4 Mystic Monastery
4 Shivan Reef
3 Temple of Epiphany
3 Temple of Triumph
1 Outpost Siege
3 Dig Through Time
1 Disdainful Stroke
4 Lightning Strike
4 Stoke the Flames
3 Valorous Stance
3 Wild Slash
1 Outpost Siege
1 Abzan Advantage
2 Disdainful Stroke
1 Erase
2 Negate
1 Valorous Stance
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Anger of the Gods
3 End Hostilities
1 Glare of Heresy
I think Wheel of Sun and Moon is bad against Living End because they've probably cycled at least 1 guy already if you're on the play and you stick it on Turn 2. They've cycled 2-4 creatures already if you stick it on Turn 2 on the draw.
Of the other yard hate you named, I'd go with Rest in Peace against Living End. They can board in all the Ingot Chewers they want against you, but they're not booting RIP with them. You also get to smoke out any creatures they already cycled with RIP. (Boosting Ethereal Armor is nice.)
DFW L1 judge
Apparently 'Just getting started' still applies even though I've been on here since 2008...
Burrenton Forge-Tender loses to the most popular removal spell in the format, Path to Exile. Kor Spiritdancer does too, but we still trade her AND the card we drew AND a basic land for their PTE. 3-for-1 is fine in my book, and assuming we keep her she's just all sorts of value. I only run two, but I'm thinking of going to three and dropping Silhana Ledgewalker to one.
I've considered Seal of Primordium but as has already been stated, one mana vs two is huge, I'd never consider going to three in a deck that should run (at most) 19 lands. (I'm talking to you, Damping Matrix)
Every card that costs more than one either has card advantage, built in evasion, or is sideboard tech that answers several threats at once. Or it's Daybreak Coronet, which is kind of a category all by itself =)
DFW L1 judge
Apparently 'Just getting started' still applies even though I've been on here since 2008...
Also, Wheel gives them the chance to continuously Living End, since as the spell resolves it goes to the bottom of their library. All they have to do is cycle for land, play the creatures, and wrath the board again and again if necessary. They play more creatures than we do, plus theirs are bigger. We rely on enchantments to make ours bigger or unblockable and this would be untenable.
DFW L1 judge
Apparently 'Just getting started' still applies even though I've been on here since 2008...
The problem is Living End has more than Living End. Fumilnator Mage hits us hard if we haven't stabilize yet then we have to worry about Living End itself which wipes our board.
Also try not to triple post.
Sexy Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios
EDH
G Isao
I was wrong about gr tron, got rolled by it both times I saw it, running 3 suppression, 2 stony, and 2 seal in the side. Suppression doesn't do much if they assemble the lands early, best bet was to try and race before they could board wipe. Maybe it should be 3 stony 2 suppression.
Thanks for the tip on sun and moon, hadn't thought about the perpetual cycle it would enable.
4 Mantis Rider
4 Seeker of the Way
3 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Soulfire Grand Master
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Flooded Strand
4 Mystic Monastery
4 Shivan Reef
3 Temple of Epiphany
3 Temple of Triumph
1 Outpost Siege
3 Dig Through Time
1 Disdainful Stroke
4 Lightning Strike
4 Stoke the Flames
3 Valorous Stance
3 Wild Slash
1 Outpost Siege
1 Abzan Advantage
2 Disdainful Stroke
1 Erase
2 Negate
1 Valorous Stance
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Anger of the Gods
3 End Hostilities
1 Glare of Heresy
4x gladecover scout
4x kor spiritdancer
4x ethereal armor
4x rancor
3x unflinching courage
4x daybreak coronet
4x keen sense
4x spider umbra
4x hyena umbra
1x forest
1x wooded bastion
4x temple garden
4x horizon canopy
4x razorverge thicket
3x misty rainforest
3x verdant catacombs
1x grafdigger's cage
2x rest in peace
3x stony silence
2x dismember
2x path to exile
1x suppresion field
reid duke's version of boggles in the world champs
Sexy Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios
EDH
G Isao