One Totem Armor basically saves him for either an Anger of EExplosives. I actually have a Spider and Hyena umbra on him to make sure he was good. I would assume the Scapeshift player would have pulled out the bolts due to our Leylines and hexproof creatures also. (At least I didn't see any of them in our games)
Hey guys! Long time no see! Sorry about not being around to update the primer, me and Theros block didn't get a long so I took a break from competitive magic for a bit and neglected to pass the torch.
PM me if you are interested in taking over the primer full time or if you want to help me by writing match up analysis and/or helping me update the card selections. Though it looks like the deck didn't evolve much since I last logged on
I just wanted to touch a bit on the mana base for this deck, since people seem to be going all over the place with that. These 17 lands are absolutely mandatory:
Anyone who is running GW Hexproof without these 17 lands is making a mistake. They're simply not replaceable, there are no other lands that will provide the same benefits. This leaves us only 3-4 slots to play around with. You can run extra Temple Gardens, but honestly you never really want to fetch more than 2 anyway. When you run out of things to fetch, you will have 2 Temple Garden, a Forest and a Plains in play and that's really enough to cast anything you'd like. Therefore my recomendation is to simply add 3-4 more green fetches, to maximize the chances of being able to fetch a Dryad Arbor if needed. Another option is to add a 2nd Dryad Arbor as the 21st land, which is also fine and especially helps if you draw the first Dryad Arbor.
Either way, as long as you play the above 17 lands and add 3-4 of anything (green fetches, Temple Gardens, extra Arbor), you'll be fine. There's no reason at all to play white fetches, Brushland or Wooded Bastion (excluding budget concerns).
i play 5 fetches and 2 Arbors with no Plains, just singleton Forest.
Had no issues at all.
re Abrupt Decay: there is nothing in the current deck that Decay is better comparing the issues we will have with mana.
we always want to hit lands that can give WW on turn 2.
so t1 we need a green source for a Bogle whilst ensuring both colors are available t2 since we do not know what combination of Auras we will draw.
will it be 2 Rancors which need 2 green sources, 2 Hyena Umbras which needs 2 white sources or a combination of both.
re: Answer to current meta
Spellskite - PTE / Nature's Claim
pestermite - Suppression Field
exarch - Suppression Field
most pod combos - Suppression Field
chalice - 2 mana crits / aura
rack - Nature's Claim
bridge - Nature's Claim
ascension - Nature's Claim / RiP / White Leyline
ascendancy - Nature's Claim
affinity - Stony Silence
Point is, the deck already has enough answers incorporated into it.
This is the same discussion before which suggests adding red for Boros Charm.
The reason why Bogles went out of favor before is because of the prevalence of infinite combo decks like Pod & Twin.
Hence, Suppression Fields became main board cards.
I ran a full set since it wrecks from fetch cracking to equipment costs to Spellskite activations to Tribe Elder block sac durdles.
With the current shift in meta, it may be worth considering moving them out of main and putting in more auras instead like Spirit Link or going full sets on the totem armors.
re: Bad Matchups
imho, the deck is having a really hard time playing against Scapeshift.
the only time I win is when I have White Leyline in my opening hand and drew into Rancor to keep pressure up.
this also requires me to draw 1 of 2 Gutural Responses from SB to counter that Cryptic bounce + tap effect.
if i dont draw into all of these cards early in the game, it's a big challenge to win, especially now that Scapeshift plays Dig through Time.
we're a bit lucky since Scapeshift isn't flavor of the month for now and fewer and fewer people are playing them in Dailies.
one more deck which is really hard to beat: Ad Nauseum.
that deck shuts down to Stony Silence BUT only for a few turns since they will draw their lands eventually and we need to kill them before they draw into Ad Nauseum into Angel's Grace into Patrician's Scorn.
Re: Good Matchups
imho, Bogles wrecks any other deck in the format.
especially now that everyone is into UR Delver, curving into a t1 Bogle, t2 Rancor + another aura with First strike is enough to win us games. Moreso when we resolve a Coronet which is almost always happening since they will still tap out for a Pyromancer or Delver + Serum Visions
answers to other decks have been mentioned earlier in my post.
one thing i would beg people to try is Guttural Response against any blue deck except Storm.
GR is just a powerhouse against someone running Remands hoping to draw into more Remands / counters
or someone who was happy they topdecked Hibernation
This is frankly just being ignorant. People dont complain that expensive things exist, they get annoyed when there are no alternatives to the expensive versions of cards.
Its a card game. People want to play the card game. They arent mad that certain pieces of cardboard are rare and collectable. They get upset when there arent alternative printings that allow them to play the game.
I would just like to point out that Suppression Field does nothing to Pestermite or Deceiver Exarch. It hoses Kiki-Jiki and Splinter Twin, but does not have any effect on the enablers.
So, they get to untap a land of theirs or tap our land? Basically Suppression Field stops an infinite number of creatures from killing you.
My fear when I played Bogles was landing Suppression Field since even though Remand is not good against Bogles, the Twin players usually keep it in.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
This deck http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/250437#paper has been showing up in the Dailies...very cool call with 2x Spellskite main, especially with the potential for more mirror matches.
I think your Board looks pretty good..maybe switch a Nature's claim for a Stony since Affinity is faster than Tokens.
I think Suppression field will be an all star for you with those decks floating around. Do you run any Path's in your 60 also? I feel you should have 4 in there, also the lifegain will be huge for you.
I think your Board looks pretty good..maybe switch a Nature's claim for a Stony since Affinity is faster than Tokens.
I think Suppression field will be an all star for you with those decks floating around. Do you run any Path's in your 60 also? I feel you should have 4 in there, also the lifegain will be huge for you.
Pestermite & Exarch are not threats on their own.
but when the opp has an infinite number of those crits across the table, then we lose.
i'm referring to Twin decks which have these 2 crits as key enablers.
apologies for not being clear.
same goes for my Pod comment.
in general, I used 4 x Suppression Fields in main just to have a good g1 against infinite combo decks which were prevalent before.
My sideboard is posted above.
Basically, what I cut most are the Suppression Fields and Spirit Mantles.
This gives me 6 slots to play around with.
Ad Nauseam:
- I scoop lol but here's what I try:
- 4 Suppression Field - 2 Path to Exile
+ 2 Nature's Claim + 4 Stony Silence
- I still lose most of the time though.
Remand or any counter is good against us. Even Izzet Charm is effective.
This made me go for a couple of Guttural Responses in the board.
This is frankly just being ignorant. People dont complain that expensive things exist, they get annoyed when there are no alternatives to the expensive versions of cards.
Its a card game. People want to play the card game. They arent mad that certain pieces of cardboard are rare and collectable. They get upset when there arent alternative printings that allow them to play the game.
I think your Board looks pretty good..maybe switch a Nature's claim for a Stony since Affinity is faster than Tokens.
I think Suppression field will be an all star for you with those decks floating around. Do you run any Path's in your 60 also? I feel you should have 4 in there, also the lifegain will be huge for you.
I know why you want to...but dump the
1 Heliod's Pilgrim
1 Eidolon of Countless Battles
Yes it's a tutor and yes it makes your guy even bigger..but they are not worth it. Especially in your meta you'll either be dead or have won before you play either card. Get the extra Paths in there instead
Zinedrei -
Against Ad Nauseam, Leyline of Sanctity basically shuts them down as all of their win-cons target you and they can't usually remove it easilly. Suppression field also works well against them as it shuts their Lightning Storm (think about it) and versus Conflagrate you can usually win the life-gain race against them as getting above 40+ life makes it really hard for them to win with it. Lastly, Gaddok Teeg is just amazing against them as, again, they often don't have the answer. Overall I have found this to be a good matchup just because we incidentally hate them out completely.
Kovo -
Your list is interesting. Lots of basics helps vs blood moon but that is not very prevalent right now. I would replace that and wooded bastion with Horizon Canopy if you can, it is fine though as a substitute. Also it is really nice to be able to fetch a dryad arbor if you can fit that in. Unflinching courage tends to be very clunky and running less justifies a lower land count. I would not run more than 2 in my 75, and personally I run 1 main and 1 side along with 1 spirit link main and 1 side. Cutting the 1 lifelink aura and likely 1 or 2 of the lands in there makes room for general hate cards. Suppression field is a must in this deck as it shuts down a lot of things that your opponents could have, including Lilliana of the Veil and as mentioned above, the Ad Nauseam combo deck. As for your sideboard, rest in peace and stony silence can both be trimmed. I personally don't like either and feel like they could be replaced, but if they work for you then you could keep them as they are definitely a fine choice. One thing that you are missing from the sideboard that you definitely should have is nature's claim or a similar answer to general artifacts/enchantments as they can and will save your life, both from the hate cards like chalice of the void and blood moon and from the threats like Jeskai Ascendancy and anything from affinity. It is also useful against infect to answer their Inkmoth Nexus as they can likely outrace you if you don't come into the matchup prepared. Lifelink doesn't help against infect counters and they have access to simple turn 2 kills because of Glistener Elf.
Zinedrei -
Against Ad Nauseam, Leyline of Sanctity basically shuts them down as all of their win-cons target you and they can't usually remove it easilly. Suppression field also works well against them as it shuts their Lightning Storm (think about it) and versus Conflagrate you can usually win the life-gain race against them as getting above 40+ life makes it really hard for them to win with it. Lastly, Gaddok Teeg is just amazing against them as, again, they often don't have the answer. Overall I have found this to be a good matchup just because we incidentally hate them out completely.
Kovo -
Your list is interesting. Lots of basics helps vs blood moon but that is not very prevalent right now. I would replace that and wooded bastion with Horizon Canopy if you can, it is fine though as a substitute. Also it is really nice to be able to fetch a dryad arbor if you can fit that in. Unflinching courage tends to be very clunky and running less justifies a lower land count. I would not run more than 2 in my 75, and personally I run 1 main and 1 side along with 1 spirit link main and 1 side. Cutting the 1 lifelink aura and likely 1 or 2 of the lands in there makes room for general hate cards. Suppression field is a must in this deck as it shuts down a lot of things that your opponents could have, including Lilliana of the Veil and as mentioned above, the Ad Nauseam combo deck. As for your sideboard, rest in peace and stony silence can both be trimmed. I personally don't like either and feel like they could be replaced, but if they work for you then you could keep them as they are definitely a fine choice. One thing that you are missing from the sideboard that you definitely should have is nature's claim or a similar answer to general artifacts/enchantments as they can and will save your life, both from the hate cards like chalice of the void and blood moon and from the threats like Jeskai Ascendancy and anything from affinity. It is also useful against infect to answer their Inkmoth Nexus as they can likely outrace you if you don't come into the matchup prepared. Lifelink doesn't help against infect counters and they have access to simple turn 2 kills because of Glistener Elf.
Very interesting take on Ad Nausem. I guess the problem I see is even though I drop a turn 0 Leyine, they can still go off and bounce it with Echoing Truth. Then they just finish the job after that. I do agree that Teeg and Suppression field are workhorses against it.
Most lists run 1-2 Echoing Truth and that is in their sideboards. Most of the time they will not be able to cast it before their combo and in order to cast it mid-combo they need lots of mana to spare, which is really tough for them to do consistently when under heavy pressure. I'm just saying here that you basically force them to combo off from an awkward position with a fast clock when you turn 0 the leyline, if nothing else giving you more time to get your suppression fields. Overall the matchup seems very solid to me because of that stuff that we probably have anyway.
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One Totem Armor basically saves him for either an Anger of EExplosives. I actually have a Spider and Hyena umbra on him to make sure he was good. I would assume the Scapeshift player would have pulled out the bolts due to our Leylines and hexproof creatures also. (At least I didn't see any of them in our games)
PM me if you are interested in taking over the primer full time or if you want to help me by writing match up analysis and/or helping me update the card selections. Though it looks like the deck didn't evolve much since I last logged on
Thanks!
4 Horizon Canopy
4 Windswept Heath
4 Razorverge Thicket
2 Temple Garden
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
1 Plains
Anyone who is running GW Hexproof without these 17 lands is making a mistake. They're simply not replaceable, there are no other lands that will provide the same benefits. This leaves us only 3-4 slots to play around with. You can run extra Temple Gardens, but honestly you never really want to fetch more than 2 anyway. When you run out of things to fetch, you will have 2 Temple Garden, a Forest and a Plains in play and that's really enough to cast anything you'd like. Therefore my recomendation is to simply add 3-4 more green fetches, to maximize the chances of being able to fetch a Dryad Arbor if needed. Another option is to add a 2nd Dryad Arbor as the 21st land, which is also fine and especially helps if you draw the first Dryad Arbor.
Either way, as long as you play the above 17 lands and add 3-4 of anything (green fetches, Temple Gardens, extra Arbor), you'll be fine. There's no reason at all to play white fetches, Brushland or Wooded Bastion (excluding budget concerns).
Had no issues at all.
re Abrupt Decay: there is nothing in the current deck that Decay is better comparing the issues we will have with mana.
we always want to hit lands that can give WW on turn 2.
so t1 we need a green source for a Bogle whilst ensuring both colors are available t2 since we do not know what combination of Auras we will draw.
will it be 2 Rancors which need 2 green sources, 2 Hyena Umbras which needs 2 white sources or a combination of both.
re: Answer to current meta
Spellskite - PTE / Nature's Claim
pestermite - Suppression Field
exarch - Suppression Field
most pod combos - Suppression Field
chalice - 2 mana crits / aura
rack - Nature's Claim
bridge - Nature's Claim
ascension - Nature's Claim / RiP / White Leyline
ascendancy - Nature's Claim
affinity - Stony Silence
Point is, the deck already has enough answers incorporated into it.
This is the same discussion before which suggests adding red for Boros Charm.
The reason why Bogles went out of favor before is because of the prevalence of infinite combo decks like Pod & Twin.
Hence, Suppression Fields became main board cards.
I ran a full set since it wrecks from fetch cracking to equipment costs to Spellskite activations to Tribe Elder block sac durdles.
With the current shift in meta, it may be worth considering moving them out of main and putting in more auras instead like Spirit Link or going full sets on the totem armors.
re: Bad Matchups
imho, the deck is having a really hard time playing against Scapeshift.
the only time I win is when I have White Leyline in my opening hand and drew into Rancor to keep pressure up.
this also requires me to draw 1 of 2 Gutural Responses from SB to counter that Cryptic bounce + tap effect.
if i dont draw into all of these cards early in the game, it's a big challenge to win, especially now that Scapeshift plays Dig through Time.
we're a bit lucky since Scapeshift isn't flavor of the month for now and fewer and fewer people are playing them in Dailies.
one more deck which is really hard to beat: Ad Nauseum.
that deck shuts down to Stony Silence BUT only for a few turns since they will draw their lands eventually and we need to kill them before they draw into Ad Nauseum into Angel's Grace into Patrician's Scorn.
Re: Good Matchups
imho, Bogles wrecks any other deck in the format.
especially now that everyone is into UR Delver, curving into a t1 Bogle, t2 Rancor + another aura with First strike is enough to win us games. Moreso when we resolve a Coronet which is almost always happening since they will still tap out for a Pyromancer or Delver + Serum Visions
answers to other decks have been mentioned earlier in my post.
one thing i would beg people to try is Guttural Response against any blue deck except Storm.
GR is just a powerhouse against someone running Remands hoping to draw into more Remands / counters
or someone who was happy they topdecked Hibernation
apologies for the long post ...
What would you suggest pulling out in game and and three in those matchups?
Quote , great post.
I'm also looking for some sideboard advices as I'm new to this deck
My fear when I played Bogles was landing Suppression Field since even though Remand is not good against Bogles, the Twin players usually keep it in.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Meta in our place: Zoo, Merfolk, Affinity, BW Tokens
3 Nature's Claim
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Torpor Orb
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Unflinching Courage
I have 3x Suppression Field Main Board
That's one hyper-aggro Meta!
I think your Board looks pretty good..maybe switch a Nature's claim for a Stony since Affinity is faster than Tokens.
I think Suppression field will be an all star for you with those decks floating around. Do you run any Path's in your 60 also? I feel you should have 4 in there, also the lifegain will be huge for you.
My main board is this
4 Slippery Bogle
3 Kor Spiritdancer
1 Heliod's Pilgrim
1 Eidolon of Countless Battles
4 Daybreak Coronet
4 Rancor
4 Ethereal Armor
4 Spider Umbra
3 Spirit Mantle
3 Suppression Field
2 Hyene Umbra
1 Spirit Link
2 Path to Exile
1 Forest
2 Plains
4 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Brushland
Pestermite & Exarch are not threats on their own.
but when the opp has an infinite number of those crits across the table, then we lose.
i'm referring to Twin decks which have these 2 crits as key enablers.
apologies for not being clear.
same goes for my Pod comment.
in general, I used 4 x Suppression Fields in main just to have a good g1 against infinite combo decks which were prevalent before.
My sideboard is posted above.
Basically, what I cut most are the Suppression Fields and Spirit Mantles.
This gives me 6 slots to play around with.
Samples are below:
Burn:
- 4 Supp Field
+ 4 White Leyline
Pod:
- 2 Spirit Mantle - 1 Coronet
+ 2 Nature's Claim + 1 Cage
UR Delver:
- 4 Suppression Field
+ 2 Guttural Response + 2 Nature's Claim
Affinity:
- 4 Suppression Field - 2 Spirit Mantle
+ 4 Stony Silence + 2 Nature's Claim
Ad Nauseam:
- I scoop lol but here's what I try:
- 4 Suppression Field - 2 Path to Exile
+ 2 Nature's Claim + 4 Stony Silence
- I still lose most of the time though.
Remand or any counter is good against us. Even Izzet Charm is effective.
This made me go for a couple of Guttural Responses in the board.
4x Daybreak Coronet
4x Ethereal Armor
4x Hyena Umbra
4x Keen Sense
4x Rancor
4x Spider Umbra
3x Unflinching Courage
Land (21)
4x Forest
2x Plains
2x Razorverge Thicket
4x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Bastion
4x Wooded Foothills
2x Dismember
4x Leyline of Sanctity
3x Path to Exile
3x Rest in Peace
3x Stony Silence
4x Gladecover Scout
4x Kor Spiritdancer
4x Slippery Bogle
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
I know why you want to...but dump the
1 Heliod's Pilgrim
1 Eidolon of Countless Battles
Yes it's a tutor and yes it makes your guy even bigger..but they are not worth it. Especially in your meta you'll either be dead or have won before you play either card. Get the extra Paths in there instead
Looks really good. I think you have one too many Unflinching Courage though. Try out Spirit Link...Double Life link is a fun thing to have!
Against Ad Nauseam, Leyline of Sanctity basically shuts them down as all of their win-cons target you and they can't usually remove it easilly. Suppression field also works well against them as it shuts their Lightning Storm (think about it) and versus Conflagrate you can usually win the life-gain race against them as getting above 40+ life makes it really hard for them to win with it. Lastly, Gaddok Teeg is just amazing against them as, again, they often don't have the answer. Overall I have found this to be a good matchup just because we incidentally hate them out completely.
Kovo -
Your list is interesting. Lots of basics helps vs blood moon but that is not very prevalent right now. I would replace that and wooded bastion with Horizon Canopy if you can, it is fine though as a substitute. Also it is really nice to be able to fetch a dryad arbor if you can fit that in. Unflinching courage tends to be very clunky and running less justifies a lower land count. I would not run more than 2 in my 75, and personally I run 1 main and 1 side along with 1 spirit link main and 1 side. Cutting the 1 lifelink aura and likely 1 or 2 of the lands in there makes room for general hate cards. Suppression field is a must in this deck as it shuts down a lot of things that your opponents could have, including Lilliana of the Veil and as mentioned above, the Ad Nauseam combo deck. As for your sideboard, rest in peace and stony silence can both be trimmed. I personally don't like either and feel like they could be replaced, but if they work for you then you could keep them as they are definitely a fine choice. One thing that you are missing from the sideboard that you definitely should have is nature's claim or a similar answer to general artifacts/enchantments as they can and will save your life, both from the hate cards like chalice of the void and blood moon and from the threats like Jeskai Ascendancy and anything from affinity. It is also useful against infect to answer their Inkmoth Nexus as they can likely outrace you if you don't come into the matchup prepared. Lifelink doesn't help against infect counters and they have access to simple turn 2 kills because of Glistener Elf.
Very interesting take on Ad Nausem. I guess the problem I see is even though I drop a turn 0 Leyine, they can still go off and bounce it with Echoing Truth. Then they just finish the job after that. I do agree that Teeg and Suppression field are workhorses against it.