What does everyone sideboard out normally? I just finished making this deck and normally play tron. I would assume that it would be the weakest enchantment, possible spider umbra or Spirit Mantle? I wanted to see what more experienced players with the deck thought.
Thanks
Interesting charm tech. Its double strike mode is much more live in this deck than most. How has your mana been though? I end up with mana problems running straight 2 colors as it is.
Also running 8 creatures feels like more of a gamble than I'd like to take. I'd prefer at least 11.
Interesting charm tech. Its double strike mode is much more live in this deck than most. How has your mana been though? I end up with mana problems running straight 2 colors as it is.
Also running 8 creatures feels like more of a gamble than I'd like to take. I'd prefer at least 11.
The mana has been fine for me. As long as you can produce the double white and have access to red and green you're fine (temple and foundry solves this). Keen sense, canopy, and fetch lands ensure this.
I'm running eight creatures because this deck is meant to mulligan aggressively and I found that whenever I drew the ledgewalker or the spirit dancer they sat in my hand while bogle or scout did all the work. I feel that 11 creatures will give you a dead draw instead of another enchantment (or in my build) boros charm that wins you the game. You can't be afraid to go down to a four card hand, the deck can handle it.
Just wanted to bring up Renounce the Guilds from DMZ for discussion.
Possibly as a SB answer in some decks for Bogle and Geist that don't have access to Lilly or would run Supreme Verdict. But the list for Multicolor cards that are hard to answer in Modern are short and most of the decks that would run Renounce the Guilds would run Supreme Verdict or Lilly anyways.
If it becomes an issue, there are ways we can adapt around it. Such as running a number of Favor of the Overbeing or bringing in Gaddock Teeg from the SB.
Quote from WyldHeartXIII »
The mana has been fine for me. As long as you can produce the double white and have access to red and green you're fine (temple and foundry solves this). Keen sense, canopy, and fetch lands ensure this.
I'm running eight creatures because this deck is meant to mulligan aggressively and I found that whenever I drew the ledgewalker or the spirit dancer they sat in my hand while bogle or scout did all the work. I feel that 11 creatures will give you a dead draw instead of another enchantment (or in my build) boros charm that wins you the game. You can't be afraid to go down to a four card hand, the deck can handle it.
Interesting, however I fail to see how warping the mana base in a 20 land deck wouldn't change consistency any. Boros Charm won't win the game any faster because the best line of play is still: T1 Bogle, T2 Enchant, Enchant, T3 Coronet/Spirit Mantle. Sure you could draw nut and go: T1 Stomping Ground - Bogle, T2 Mesa fetch Foundry - Rancor - Ethereal Armor swing 5, T3 - Rancor/Ethereal Armor - Boros Charm win. But if you're mulling to 4 on a regular basis due to mana and creature issues, you will need to pull top decks to get that line of play on a mull to 4 or 5. It's worth mentioning Charm is only good with Rancor or Spirit Mantle as the deck can already give First Strike fairly easy and a suited up Bogle is rarely out matched in power and toughness.
Also, with only 2 green fetches you'll rarely be able to pull a Dryad Arbor in the face of an edict and with 3 lands that don't tap for green on turn 1 you're looking to mull more often. Not to mention you lose all hope of recovering from a turn 4 Supreme Verdict on the draw with only 8/9 creatures in the deck. Or even worse, a turn 2 Lilly on the draw....
It just seems to add more problems than it solves...
Detainment Spell is a good tool. It's seen play in top finishing decks. Solves some problems while contributing to the Ethereal Armor count, but if you're not running Spiritdancer it loses a tiny bit of value if you're not running a full 4 of PtE.
Possibly as a SB answer in some decks for Bogle and Geist that don't have access to Lilly or would run Supreme Verdict. But the list for Multicolor cards that are hard to answer in Modern are short and most of the decks that would run Renounce the Guilds would run Supreme Verdict or Lilly anyways.
If it becomes an issue, there are ways we can adapt around it. Such as running a number of Favor of the Overbeing or bringing in Gaddock Teeg from the SB.
Interesting, however I fail to see how warping the mana base in a 20 land deck wouldn't change consistency any. Boros Charm won't win the game any faster because the best line of play is still: T1 Bogle, T2 Enchant, Enchant, T3 Coronet/Spirit Mantle. Sure you could draw nut and go: T1 Stomping Ground - Bogle, T2 Mesa fetch Foundry - Rancor - Ethereal Armor swing 5, T3 - Rancor/Ethereal Armor - Boros Charm win. But if you're mulling to 4 on a regular basis due to mana and creature issues, you will need to pull top decks to get that line of play on a mull to 4 or 5. It's worth mentioning Charm is only good with Rancor or Spirit Mantle as the deck can already give First Strike fairly easy and a suited up Bogle is rarely out matched in power and toughness.
Also, with only 2 green fetches you'll rarely be able to pull a Dryad Arbor in the face of an edict and with 3 lands that don't tap for green on turn 1 you're looking to mull more often. Not to mention you lose all hope of recovering from a turn 4 Supreme Verdict on the draw with only 8/9 creatures in the deck. Or even worse, a turn 2 Lilly on the draw....
It just seems to add more problems than it solves...
What's also nice about the charm is the fact that it can give your enchantments indestructibility. It protects you from Maelstrom Pulse and any other enchantment hate they sided in. Losing the coronet is never a good thing and it can protect it.
It's not often that I've had to go down to four cards. I do see your concern with a turn 2 Lilly though, it might be wise to turn a Horizon Canopy into another green fetch as a safety measure.
I started building this deck to give it a try when playing with my friends, however I was wondering if it would be viable to replace Noble Hierarch with Birds of paradise and Horizon Canopy with Selesnya Guildgate considering I just want to try out the deck to see if I'm enjoying it or not before going deeper in the expenses ?
Question about creature count, I've seen lists running from 8 to 16 and am having trouble finding the right number. I've been playing around with my numbers and can't seem to settle on a regular build. Besides the consensus 8, I'm currently testing 2x noble and 2x ledgewalker. It feels threat light, but worry about not having a critical mass of enhancements.
The critical mass of enchantments is less of a problem than having a creature in general, especially if you're running spiritdancers. I tend to run 12-13 creatures + arbor (8 one-drops + 3 or 4 spiritdancers + 1 or 2 ledgewalkers) and that works well for me. Otherwise it's lands, 3 paths, and enchants.
I believe the new armadillo cloak is worth it in noble hierarch builds as a 2 of.
That, or if we really wanted to incorporate it, we could take a page from pauper auras and run utopia sprawl. Pretty sure that's not a step the deck wants to take. It would be if ancestral mask was in the format though...
I believe the new armadillo cloak is worth it in noble hierarch builds as a 2 of.
This. If anything. Otherwise I think it's going to be too expensive to fit in the deck. It's gotta be tested before knowing for sure, but the card is powerful and deserves a shot.
Today I finished 4-2 in the modern premier event online. Had a reasonable chance of going 5-1 and too 8'ing, but Jaberwocki (online and on twitter) managed to time out his precious match (with seismic assault in play, land in hand, and his opponent ton one life no less) and wound up against me...playing loam pox. Rogue deck, but it is a nightmare matchup.
My only other loss came in a game versus Rg zoo in which I flooded horribly in g3 (kept a slightly too slow hand to fight through a deglamer g2).
Wins against goblins, jund, mono blue tron, and twin.
The deck still feels good and handles well against aggro. Online, our best matchup in uwr has declined significantly though...not sure I've seen it for a while.
Hi, I was wondering why Bogle isn't seen anymore, I play UWR Geist and the matchup is a nightmare for me, although I understand that Bogle must have its own terrible matchups too... which are they and why has it been pushed out of the meta?
Hi, I was wondering why Bogle isn't seen anymore, I play UWR Geist and the matchup is a nightmare for me, although I understand that Bogle must have its own terrible matchups too... which are they and why has it been pushed out of the meta?
If you're talking about mtgo, then I'm guessing it's because of uwr not showing up anymore. More people are jumping back to jund which isn't an easy matchup.
If you're talking about physical games, then I would guess that a lot of people are underestimating/dismissing the deck. That or they want to play more interactive games.
It's also not a deck where the pieces are interchangeable with others.
With Eggs banned, do we need to look to shifting our sideboard around a bit?
Stony Silence is now much less needed. It's still good against Tron and Robots, but Suppression Field does the same thing (slow down Tron and make Robots cry) and is quite viable against other decks as well. I'll probably -1 Stony +1 Suppression Field. It's possible we can just cut Stony Silence all together to fit in more cards, but at this point I really don't know what cards I'd add.
We can also trim Rest in Peace. It's still good for Reanimator/Gifts/Living End strategys, and DRS and Goyf (which I've never been happy boarding in Rest in Peace for), but I wonder if we still really need it. Maybe we can use those spots for Mana Tithes.
With Eggs banned, do we need to look to shifting our sideboard around a bit?
Stony Silence is now much less needed. It's still good against Tron and Robots, but Suppression Field does the same thing (slow down Tron and make Robots cry) and is quite viable against other decks as well. I'll probably -1 Stony +1 Suppression Field. It's possible we can just cut Stony Silence all together to fit in more cards, but at this point I really don't know what cards I'd add.
We can also trim Rest in Peace. It's still good for Reanimator/Gifts/Living End strategys, and DRS and Goyf (which I've never been happy boarding in Rest in Peace for), but I wonder if we still really need it. Maybe we can use those spots for Mana Tithes.
I agree and it's the first thought to cross my mind with the banning of eggs as well.
I'm definitely dropping the Stony for 4th Field though I'm not going to cut RIP because I like it way too much vs. Reanimator and Melria pod (which both see heavy play in my meta) though I agree with not bringing it in just to stop Goyf and DRS since it's a waste of a slot and we usually don't care about those guys anyhow
I'll probably squeeze in a Deglamer or Spellskite in the extra slot.
Online, Jund is on the upswing. With eggs gone, it'll also have one less bad matchup. One of the sb changes I'm definitely going for is -1 Stony +1 Leyline of Sanctity to go back up to 4.
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Sideboarding vs. Twin:
3 Suppression Field
1 Natures Claim
1 PtE / Dismember
I feel Skite is only good vs. Infect, the mirror, and to a small degree Scapeshift (turns 21 points of damage into 14).
Thanks
4x Gladcover Scout
4x Slippery Bogle
Enchantments
4x Daybreak Coronet
4x Rancor
4x Hyena Umbra
4x Spirit Mantle
4x Ethereal Armor
3x Keen Sense
2x Spider Umbra
Instants
4x Path to Exile
3x Boros Charm
3x Temple Garden
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Stomping Ground
3x Razorverge Thicket
4x Horizon Canopy
4x Arid Mesa
2x Verdant Catacombs
1x Plains
1x Dryad Arbor
3x Stony Silence
4x Leyline of Sanctity
2x Suppression Field
2x Gaddock Teeg
2x Torpor Orb
2x Nature's Claim
Also running 8 creatures feels like more of a gamble than I'd like to take. I'd prefer at least 11.
The mana has been fine for me. As long as you can produce the double white and have access to red and green you're fine (temple and foundry solves this). Keen sense, canopy, and fetch lands ensure this.
I'm running eight creatures because this deck is meant to mulligan aggressively and I found that whenever I drew the ledgewalker or the spirit dancer they sat in my hand while bogle or scout did all the work. I feel that 11 creatures will give you a dead draw instead of another enchantment (or in my build) boros charm that wins you the game. You can't be afraid to go down to a four card hand, the deck can handle it.
Possibly as a SB answer in some decks for Bogle and Geist that don't have access to Lilly or would run Supreme Verdict. But the list for Multicolor cards that are hard to answer in Modern are short and most of the decks that would run Renounce the Guilds would run Supreme Verdict or Lilly anyways.
If it becomes an issue, there are ways we can adapt around it. Such as running a number of Favor of the Overbeing or bringing in Gaddock Teeg from the SB.
Interesting, however I fail to see how warping the mana base in a 20 land deck wouldn't change consistency any. Boros Charm won't win the game any faster because the best line of play is still: T1 Bogle, T2 Enchant, Enchant, T3 Coronet/Spirit Mantle. Sure you could draw nut and go: T1 Stomping Ground - Bogle, T2 Mesa fetch Foundry - Rancor - Ethereal Armor swing 5, T3 - Rancor/Ethereal Armor - Boros Charm win. But if you're mulling to 4 on a regular basis due to mana and creature issues, you will need to pull top decks to get that line of play on a mull to 4 or 5. It's worth mentioning Charm is only good with Rancor or Spirit Mantle as the deck can already give First Strike fairly easy and a suited up Bogle is rarely out matched in power and toughness.
Also, with only 2 green fetches you'll rarely be able to pull a Dryad Arbor in the face of an edict and with 3 lands that don't tap for green on turn 1 you're looking to mull more often. Not to mention you lose all hope of recovering from a turn 4 Supreme Verdict on the draw with only 8/9 creatures in the deck. Or even worse, a turn 2 Lilly on the draw....
It just seems to add more problems than it solves...
What's also nice about the charm is the fact that it can give your enchantments indestructibility. It protects you from Maelstrom Pulse and any other enchantment hate they sided in. Losing the coronet is never a good thing and it can protect it.
It's not often that I've had to go down to four cards. I do see your concern with a turn 2 Lilly though, it might be wise to turn a Horizon Canopy into another green fetch as a safety measure.
I started building this deck to give it a try when playing with my friends, however I was wondering if it would be viable to replace Noble Hierarch with Birds of paradise and Horizon Canopy with Selesnya Guildgate considering I just want to try out the deck to see if I'm enjoying it or not before going deeper in the expenses ?
Thanks
4 Mantis Rider
4 Seeker of the Way
3 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Soulfire Grand Master
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Flooded Strand
4 Mystic Monastery
4 Shivan Reef
3 Temple of Epiphany
3 Temple of Triumph
1 Outpost Siege
3 Dig Through Time
1 Disdainful Stroke
4 Lightning Strike
4 Stoke the Flames
3 Valorous Stance
3 Wild Slash
1 Outpost Siege
1 Abzan Advantage
2 Disdainful Stroke
1 Erase
2 Negate
1 Valorous Stance
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Anger of the Gods
3 End Hostilities
1 Glare of Heresy
I run the 8 + 2 silhana ledgewalker + 2 spiritdancer
Sometimes though I run no spiritdancers and go 4 ledgewalkers
That, or if we really wanted to incorporate it, we could take a page from pauper auras and run utopia sprawl. Pretty sure that's not a step the deck wants to take. It would be if ancestral mask was in the format though...
This. If anything. Otherwise I think it's going to be too expensive to fit in the deck. It's gotta be tested before knowing for sure, but the card is powerful and deserves a shot.
My only other loss came in a game versus Rg zoo in which I flooded horribly in g3 (kept a slightly too slow hand to fight through a deglamer g2).
Wins against goblins, jund, mono blue tron, and twin.
The deck still feels good and handles well against aggro. Online, our best matchup in uwr has declined significantly though...not sure I've seen it for a while.
If you're talking about mtgo, then I'm guessing it's because of uwr not showing up anymore. More people are jumping back to jund which isn't an easy matchup.
If you're talking about physical games, then I would guess that a lot of people are underestimating/dismissing the deck. That or they want to play more interactive games.
It's also not a deck where the pieces are interchangeable with others.
Stony Silence is now much less needed. It's still good against Tron and Robots, but Suppression Field does the same thing (slow down Tron and make Robots cry) and is quite viable against other decks as well. I'll probably -1 Stony +1 Suppression Field. It's possible we can just cut Stony Silence all together to fit in more cards, but at this point I really don't know what cards I'd add.
We can also trim Rest in Peace. It's still good for Reanimator/Gifts/Living End strategys, and DRS and Goyf (which I've never been happy boarding in Rest in Peace for), but I wonder if we still really need it. Maybe we can use those spots for Mana Tithes.
I agree and it's the first thought to cross my mind with the banning of eggs as well.
I'm definitely dropping the Stony for 4th Field though I'm not going to cut RIP because I like it way too much vs. Reanimator and Melria pod (which both see heavy play in my meta) though I agree with not bringing it in just to stop Goyf and DRS since it's a waste of a slot and we usually don't care about those guys anyhow
I'll probably squeeze in a Deglamer or Spellskite in the extra slot.