steelshaper's gift works well, it used to be more popular many years ago
it's a little lower on the priority list of spells we should run now with the speed of modern currently, and needing a way to interact with splinter twin, and other creature based combo decks, pod before it was banned, infect
mostly grixis twin these days, as that match-up is horrid
spell pierce and apostle's blessing have gotten more popular around here, recently
Yeah, creature based combo decks are definitely an issue for more non-interactive affinity builds. To mitigate this you can MB spellskite. And, if the combo frequency is too high I can would argue for one maybe two Galvanic, Dispatch, or Dismember.
it is not necessary, because we have mox opal. it is legendary, therefore as long as you are able to hit metalcraft, it is a form of extra mana, similar to simian spirit guite. it also have a second if you can cast down ravage. therefore simian spirit guide was not considered.
I'm new to the deck so I'm not always sure what the right play is. How do we beat combo decks like Scapeshift and twin? We have minimal interaction so do we largely just race them and keep up answers (like Galvanic Blast vs. Twin) if we happen to have them in hand?
Vs scapeshift, we are faster, just race them. sideboard cards you can run include thoughtseize and blood moon. some might add spell pierce for their sweepers.
Vs twin, it is not a good match-up. recent version that run 4 galvanic blast and 2 spellskite mainboard have a better game 1 chance. sideboard, can bring in 1 wear//tear, dismember and torpor orb. some might run illness in the rank as well. these are the common sideboard cards that you will bring in in these matches. usually after these, it depends on your piloting skills.
round 1: beat jund 2-1. very close games, beat him down with infect though.
round 2: lost to tron 0-2. wasn't even close
round 3: lost to g/b/u midrange 0-2. got hammered again. it's kinda like grixis but swap the red for green.
all night long i was eating pyroclasm, languish, o-stone, ancient grudge, nature's claim, lightning bolt, abrupt decay, even golgari charm.
So, I played my friends Azorious control deck. I have to say, wow, what a hard matchup. They just need to survive until turn 4 for the Supreme Verdict, and remove any huge threat like Ravager, Steel overseer, Master of Etherium/Champ, and hopefully snare a cranial plating
Game 1's were fine, but turn 2 I couldn't make a decent.
I know he has 2 stoney silences and 1 Kataki, and he used whichever Gideon it is that forces creatures to attack him
I can clearly see that Overseer is clearly useless, and would just board out all 3. They have way too much removal, and all the mass removal to make investing in him pointless
I was going to board out spellskite, but with supreme verdict I just found it pointless since he puts no pressure on him.
Any recommendations or is this one of those 30/70 matchups?
This is one of the worst match up other than twin. best way to win is via manland and infect. Do not over commit on your board. also i wouldn't board in blood moon. it hurts us more than hurt them. man land are most effective against them. i would cut steel overseer, not because he is ineffective, but rather because of stony silence. i would board in 1 ghirapur aethergrid, 2 thoughtseize and 1 wear//tear. board out 3 steel overseer and 1 galvanic blast perhaps. this deck is still rather uncommon, therefore i wouldn't worried in a bigger metagame. but if in your local meta, this is a problem, you might want to think of some sideboard strategy. off my mind, i don't have any cards that come to mind except choke, but it is not very effective. torpor orb might solve some creature problem but rather limited. master of etherium or ensoul artifact will be good, but not effective in other match up, so it is for you to decide.
Hmmm, I've seen that hangarback walkers are seriously falling out of contention. I went on mtggoldfish and TCG and looked at winning lists, and it seems like he was used more like a trend, because very few people are now using it this past month and a half
I'm still tweaking things, I do think I want to stay with the 3 Etched Champion/2 Master of Etherium, but I'm now debating on a few things
-Whether to go back down to 16 lands, despite having 5 3 drops.
-Whether to drop memnite down to 2 to add another 2 drop, which means I'm now at 16 lands and 2 memnites, which is a little less consistent in explosive opening hands
How come some people don't just say screw the galvanic blast/thoughtcast, and add 1 or 2 creatures instead? I'm not sure if the meta really wants thoughtcast right now. While it's super awesome playing out the whole hand turn 1 and then thoughtcasting for 1 on turn 2 and getting a cranial plating, I'm not sure thats a consistent enough payoff.
I'm almost thinking of going 3 Galvanic blast, and 1 welding jar. I'm rarely happy to see galvanic blast unless it's against Twin and a Tron player stabilizing with Karn. However, close to no lists run just 3 spells, so I figure there's a good reason. Can anyone explain why?
Tempered Steel looks amazing, but 2 white means that it's unplayable 20 percent of the time, according to Frank Karsten. Too bad.
Question for you guys, it's pretty common we see hands like
Now, if they don't remove steel overseer, that's an amazing hand. I imagine most opponents will absolutely pluck that overseer from the battlefield. Do you guys often risk keep that hand hoping overseer isn't killed? Mulligan? Do you guys straight up remove him against very interactive decks, and only keep him against decks with little to no spot removal? Just kind of curious because I find if he dies and I don't top deck a 3 drop, ravager or cranial plating, that's gg for me
Don't mean to ask so many questions, I originally bought Affinity to play on the side for my jund/abzan deck, and think I like it even more, that, and everyone in my meta is running Tron
It is a risky hand, but I will keep in the hope of getting plating and such. But this hand die to turn 2 pyroclasm, so thread carefully.
Galvanic blast is very good in term of reach when your creature might just fall short of 4 point to win you the game. It can also help to remove blockers. Therefore I wouldn't cut it.
What does everyone think of the red version playing shrapnel blast? It is prevalent on MTGO (2nd in a PTQ). It gives the deck an extra push after a pyroclasm and also provides the ability to kill out of nowhere. I personally prefer it over the blue version as I don't like master or ensoul very much in this metagame.
I played it recently and did not like it. Can it work? Yes, but it didn't seem to really connect with with me. I care more about continuous field presence vs momentary damage. And, I've always found the whole..."They are down to 4/5 life...if I only ran more reach spells!" happening only a few times ever playing affinity.
On a side note, I've only ever found reach to be useful not for closing but killing a mana dork and/or walker mainly found in Rock. But, those days are over. lol So, twin and pod are the few match ups it is really needed in the MB.
Remember, are affinity cards stand alone? Are they "good stuff?" Think on that.
So, I'm still incredibly torn by just little things in what to do for my affinity deck
I thought about it though, and in a way, 2 thoughtcasts can, to some extent, make up for 1 missing glimmervoid and that 1 memnite. Will the opening hand always? No, of course. I wanted to maximize board presence and some have some resilience with those 2 walkers, while having that 5th 3 drop another reason to keep an opening hand and a top deck
Anyone test anything similar? I'm not sure if Hangarback is the real deal or just too slow. The spellskites can come in for overseers, signal pests, galvanic blasts, etc, when I need to protect cards.
Spellskite seems to be better than hangarbacks if there's not as much of a race and opponents try to cast one for one spells, and lack board wipes
I can't believe how radically different the deck is just from debating about 4 glimmervoids, 3 memnites and thought casts
I like the deck as a whole and kinda feel conflicted
I tried playing 17 lands and 3 memnites and never liked it.
Been playing 16 lands and 2 memnites for a long time now and never has any problems.
Also look at all the Affinity decks that are winning or placing high. Most of them play just 16 lands and 2 memnites so don't worry to much about it.
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Legacy - Reanimator
Modern - Burn
EDH - Neheb the Eternal
@spec.ops, what are the match-up you have played so far that galvanic blast is not effective? Do you ever face down an opposing spellskite that stops you from going lethal? have you found yourself thinking where is removal when you need one when that is a kataki across you? do you find yourself needing to kill that restoration angel or celestial colonnade across you that stops you from attacking? i find myself in these situation more than enough to want 4 galvanic blast main board just to have an answer. sure, some match up they are not very useful, that is where you know what to take out and put in those sideboard cards that is useful. by cutting on removal, you are opening yourself to unexpected hate cards or situation that you don't have an out.
After playing so many games and going to many GPT, i have learnt to sppreciate spellskite and galvanic blast more than ever. right now affinity is not just about racing, but also survive under hate cards and removal. with grixis and jund being popular, racing can only get you that far before you are stopped and defeated. the extra resilence is much needed more than ever.
it is no longer non interactive but rather more complicated to achieve a win even in game 1. Looking at al the winning list see what is the difference between your and theirs. feel the difference when playing. i tried it and subsequently i decided that the GP singapore champion list is one of the best. i only did minial changes to the sideboard. you see that list being used in protour with only 1 card difference from the stock list and minimal changes to the sideboard. that tells you how good the list is that Pros also use it. unless there is a big change in meta, i don't see a need to deviate from that list too much. At the moment, origin and BFZ does not impact our deck enough to warrant a big change in card choice. our hate cards are still the same and the meta have not change much since june. i have see more jace, but it is not having a big enough impact on our deck to warrant concern.
What i see so far are more affinity. expect more mirror match up.
i would suggest control your play. do not play out everything, especially ethed champion. be wary of turn 4 supreme verdict, damnation or even a shatterstorm. best bet is bring in thoughtseize and spell pierce. control your tempo in such match up. man land is your best friend here. it is not about the list but your play style that determine your outcome. in the past, there is a saying of playing with a turn 4 wrath mindset when playing aggro. the same is true today. do not be deceived that by going all out you can win the game. sometime you need to hold back. not every deck play shatterstorm or stony silence in their sideboard, there are always incidental hate. look out for tell tale sign that a wrath might be eminent. i think that comes from experience and your knowledge of the deck your opponent is playing. play in a way that is aggressive but not over extent. often our clock is faster than them, therefore don't be greedy to rush. the more you rush, the easier for you to make mistake or fall into a trap. i have fall into those trap myself before and still do at times. play with caution. the game is more complicated than just simply racing, especially against seasoned or experienced player. learn to play around the hate. see the colour tey are playing, what sort of hate that can commonly come fro there. these will give you clue to prepare yourself mentally what to expect. you need to do your homework of reading up on hates that a particular match-up will most likely bring against you. once you recognised that, it is most easier for you to predict and sequence your play.
example below
merfolk- hurkly's recall, if have splash white, might have stony silence.
grixis- pyroclasm, anger of god, kolaghan's command, shatterstorm, shattering spree, hurkyl's recall depending on their version whether control or tempo.
jund- ancient grudge, anger of god, shatterstorm, kolaghan's command, creeping corrosion, damnation, night of soul betrayal, golgari's charm
abzan- stony silence, zealous persecution, damnation, night of soul betrayal, fracturing gust
UW- kataki, stony silence, supreme verdict
naya burn, deflecting palm, destructive revelry
infect, nature's claim, spellskite, hurkyl's recall
abzan coco- quasali pridemage, stony silence, spellskite, kataki
GR tron- nature's claim, pyroclasm, anger of god, spellskite
lantern prison- welding jar, spellskite, ancient grudge, hurkyl's recall
above are just some example to recognise the sort of hate you might face. there are more, but learning to recognise threat will help you in your sideboard strategy.
I play with 4 galvanics, a 3/2 split MoE/EC, having 2 EC my SB for heavy removal or creature matchups. Was expecting lot of scapeshift, abzan combo and twin.
Won against Jund, b/c EC in both games
Won against Grixis Twin coz of Ghirapur Aether Grid in game 2/3
Won against Burn, due to MoE. He just couldnt keep up.
Lost the first round to B/W tokens (0-2). I found this a really hard MU. Their tokens are most of the time 2/2 flying vigilance. Game 1 in he Zealous Persecution my board leaving an Orni and game 2 he had a T2 Stony Silence. No contest. I boarded in Aether Grid and Whipflare but still he just seemed to steamroll all over me. Felt a bit powerless in this MU. Is this just a bad MU or is there some tech or play I'm unaware off?
I play with 4 galvanics, a 3/2 split MoE/EC, having 2 EC my SB for heavy removal or creature matchups. Was expecting lot of scapeshift, abzan combo and twin.
Won against Jund, b/c EC in both games
Won against Grixis Twin coz of Ghirapur Aether Grid in game 2/3
Won against Burn, due to MoE. He just couldnt keep up.
Lost the first round to B/W tokens (0-2). I found this a really hard MU. Their tokens are most of the time 2/2 flying vigilance. Game 1 in he Zealous Persecution my board leaving an Orni and game 2 he had a T2 Stony Silence. No contest. I boarded in Aether Grid and Whipflare but still he just seemed to steamroll all over me. Felt a bit powerless in this MU. Is this just a bad MU or is there some tech or play I'm unaware off?
aether grid against grixis twin? can't say i recommend that.... why? doesn't kill anything straight up except snapcaster
b/w tokens is a tough match-up, always has been for sure. i was pretty happy when it fell off the map for a little bit. aether grid seems like it should be nice against it, but still tough. not too popular thankfully.
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Yeah, creature based combo decks are definitely an issue for more non-interactive affinity builds. To mitigate this you can MB spellskite. And, if the combo frequency is too high I can would argue for one maybe two Galvanic, Dispatch, or Dismember.
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Seems janky and bad, but thought I'd ask.
I'm new to the deck so I'm not always sure what the right play is. How do we beat combo decks like Scapeshift and twin? We have minimal interaction so do we largely just race them and keep up answers (like Galvanic Blast vs. Twin) if we happen to have them in hand?
Vs twin, it is not a good match-up. recent version that run 4 galvanic blast and 2 spellskite mainboard have a better game 1 chance. sideboard, can bring in 1 wear//tear, dismember and torpor orb. some might run illness in the rank as well. these are the common sideboard cards that you will bring in in these matches. usually after these, it depends on your piloting skills.
3 memnite
4 vault skirge
4 signal pest
4 arcbound ravager
3 steel overseer
3 etched champion
1 master of etherium
4 cranial plating
4 galvanic blast
2 thoughtcast
4 springleaf drum
4 mox opal
4 inkmoth nexus
4 darksteel citadel
2 glimmervoid
1 city of brass
1 mountain
1 ethersworn canonist
1 spellskite
1 dispatch
1 chalice of the void
1 torpor orb
1 relic of progenitus
1 hurkyl's recall
2 ancient grudge
2 duress
2 spell pierce
2 whipflare
round 1: beat jund 2-1. very close games, beat him down with infect though.
round 2: lost to tron 0-2. wasn't even close
round 3: lost to g/b/u midrange 0-2. got hammered again. it's kinda like grixis but swap the red for green.
all night long i was eating pyroclasm, languish, o-stone, ancient grudge, nature's claim, lightning bolt, abrupt decay, even golgari charm.
Game 1's were fine, but turn 2 I couldn't make a decent.
I know he has 2 stoney silences and 1 Kataki, and he used whichever Gideon it is that forces creatures to attack him
I sideboarded out
-2 Galvanic blast
-2 Thoughtcast
-1 Signal pest
+2 Blood moon
+2 Thoughtseize
1+ Ghiapur Ethergrid
I can clearly see that Overseer is clearly useless, and would just board out all 3. They have way too much removal, and all the mass removal to make investing in him pointless
I was going to board out spellskite, but with supreme verdict I just found it pointless since he puts no pressure on him.
Any recommendations or is this one of those 30/70 matchups?
I'm still tweaking things, I do think I want to stay with the 3 Etched Champion/2 Master of Etherium, but I'm now debating on a few things
-Whether to go back down to 16 lands, despite having 5 3 drops.
-Whether to drop memnite down to 2 to add another 2 drop, which means I'm now at 16 lands and 2 memnites, which is a little less consistent in explosive opening hands
How come some people don't just say screw the galvanic blast/thoughtcast, and add 1 or 2 creatures instead? I'm not sure if the meta really wants thoughtcast right now. While it's super awesome playing out the whole hand turn 1 and then thoughtcasting for 1 on turn 2 and getting a cranial plating, I'm not sure thats a consistent enough payoff.
I'm almost thinking of going 3 Galvanic blast, and 1 welding jar. I'm rarely happy to see galvanic blast unless it's against Twin and a Tron player stabilizing with Karn. However, close to no lists run just 3 spells, so I figure there's a good reason. Can anyone explain why?
Tempered Steel looks amazing, but 2 white means that it's unplayable 20 percent of the time, according to Frank Karsten. Too bad.
Question for you guys, it's pretty common we see hands like
1 land, 1 mox opal, 1 memnite, 2 ornithopters 1 steel overseer, 1 vault skirge.
Now, if they don't remove steel overseer, that's an amazing hand. I imagine most opponents will absolutely pluck that overseer from the battlefield. Do you guys often risk keep that hand hoping overseer isn't killed? Mulligan? Do you guys straight up remove him against very interactive decks, and only keep him against decks with little to no spot removal? Just kind of curious because I find if he dies and I don't top deck a 3 drop, ravager or cranial plating, that's gg for me
Don't mean to ask so many questions, I originally bought Affinity to play on the side for my jund/abzan deck, and think I like it even more, that, and everyone in my meta is running Tron
Galvanic blast is very good in term of reach when your creature might just fall short of 4 point to win you the game. It can also help to remove blockers. Therefore I wouldn't cut it.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=399504
On a side note, I've only ever found reach to be useful not for closing but killing a mana dork and/or walker mainly found in Rock. But, those days are over. lol So, twin and pod are the few match ups it is really needed in the MB.
Remember, are affinity cards stand alone? Are they "good stuff?" Think on that.
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4x Arcbound Ravager
3x Etched Champion
2x Hangarback Walker
2x Master of Etherium
2x Memnite
4x Ornithopter
4x Signal Pest
3x Steel Overseer
4x Vault Skirge
2x thoughtcast
instant
2x galvanic blast
artifact
4x Cranial Plating
4x Mox Opal
4x Springleaf Drum
land
4x Blinkmoth Nexus
4x Darksteel Citadel
3x Glimmervoid
4x Inkmoth Nexus
1x Island
2x thoughtseize
3x ancient grudge
2x spellskite
2x bloodmoon
1x dismember
1x torpor orb
1x ethersworn canonist
2x whipflare
1x etched champion
So, I'm still incredibly torn by just little things in what to do for my affinity deck
I thought about it though, and in a way, 2 thoughtcasts can, to some extent, make up for 1 missing glimmervoid and that 1 memnite. Will the opening hand always? No, of course. I wanted to maximize board presence and some have some resilience with those 2 walkers, while having that 5th 3 drop another reason to keep an opening hand and a top deck
Anyone test anything similar? I'm not sure if Hangarback is the real deal or just too slow. The spellskites can come in for overseers, signal pests, galvanic blasts, etc, when I need to protect cards.
Spellskite seems to be better than hangarbacks if there's not as much of a race and opponents try to cast one for one spells, and lack board wipes
I can't believe how radically different the deck is just from debating about 4 glimmervoids, 3 memnites and thought casts
I like the deck as a whole and kinda feel conflicted
Been playing 16 lands and 2 memnites for a long time now and never has any problems.
Also look at all the Affinity decks that are winning or placing high. Most of them play just 16 lands and 2 memnites so don't worry to much about it.
Modern - Burn
EDH - Neheb the Eternal
After playing so many games and going to many GPT, i have learnt to sppreciate spellskite and galvanic blast more than ever. right now affinity is not just about racing, but also survive under hate cards and removal. with grixis and jund being popular, racing can only get you that far before you are stopped and defeated. the extra resilence is much needed more than ever.
it is no longer non interactive but rather more complicated to achieve a win even in game 1. Looking at al the winning list see what is the difference between your and theirs. feel the difference when playing. i tried it and subsequently i decided that the GP singapore champion list is one of the best. i only did minial changes to the sideboard. you see that list being used in protour with only 1 card difference from the stock list and minimal changes to the sideboard. that tells you how good the list is that Pros also use it. unless there is a big change in meta, i don't see a need to deviate from that list too much. At the moment, origin and BFZ does not impact our deck enough to warrant a big change in card choice. our hate cards are still the same and the meta have not change much since june. i have see more jace, but it is not having a big enough impact on our deck to warrant concern.
What i see so far are more affinity. expect more mirror match up.
If a meta has a crap ton of wraths and hate, what kind of list would you guys suggest?
example below
merfolk- hurkly's recall, if have splash white, might have stony silence.
grixis- pyroclasm, anger of god, kolaghan's command, shatterstorm, shattering spree, hurkyl's recall depending on their version whether control or tempo.
jund- ancient grudge, anger of god, shatterstorm, kolaghan's command, creeping corrosion, damnation, night of soul betrayal, golgari's charm
abzan- stony silence, zealous persecution, damnation, night of soul betrayal, fracturing gust
UW- kataki, stony silence, supreme verdict
naya burn, deflecting palm, destructive revelry
infect, nature's claim, spellskite, hurkyl's recall
abzan coco- quasali pridemage, stony silence, spellskite, kataki
GR tron- nature's claim, pyroclasm, anger of god, spellskite
lantern prison- welding jar, spellskite, ancient grudge, hurkyl's recall
above are just some example to recognise the sort of hate you might face. there are more, but learning to recognise threat will help you in your sideboard strategy.
putting them together in an affinitly list looked like a good tutor synergy. grab a 2nd enforcer or find a much needed ravager.
what do you guys think?
Illness in the Ranks is a frequent side-board choice for Affinity. The new Virulent Plague is another option. Engineered Explosives is the Modern anti-token staple but it's not so comfortable in Affinity.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
aether grid against grixis twin? can't say i recommend that.... why? doesn't kill anything straight up except snapcaster
b/w tokens is a tough match-up, always has been for sure. i was pretty happy when it fell off the map for a little bit. aether grid seems like it should be nice against it, but still tough. not too popular thankfully.