How are people finding RIP? Feels pretty counter intuitive as it stops your Ravanager triggers, uses color mana and costs 2. Why are we not playing our own Surgicial, Relic, Cage or Crypt to reduce our dependence on colored mana
First time out: Beat Rakdos Burn with G-splash for side-board Destructive Revelry; beat UR Phoenix; lost to Humans; beat BR Hollow One.
The only game I got Experimental Frenzy into play was against Humans; it was nuts and I won that game. The deck dumped on me the third game and I got ROFL-stomped.
I didn't have the maybe-board cards I needed to rearrange the deck as I wanted so I wound up with two Relic of Progenitus main-deck. I'll probably try the version with an Island and a Mountain with Master of Etherium in greater quantities; I ran only one main-deck tonight.
If you play enough games you will find instances where you just can't keep the 1 mana open for relic. You are better off playing rest in peace. If you want to play surgical extraction or Crypt you can. I have a split my graveyard removal with two rest in peace and two relic. There is also the down side of relic being an artifact when they are siding in direct artifact hate.
RIP sounds like a strong card, but I don't think I would play it if it means blanking ravangers
In the for-what-it's-worth category, tonight I played a zero-land hand. Moreover, I didn't draw a land the whole game.
The draw was Mox Opal, Signal Pest, Springleaf Drum and four zero-drop creatures. I never drew another mana source. It was actually a pretty quick game and my opponent couldn't get his Storm going so the 'Bots won.
Played an FNM tonight and took first at 4-0. Played against Storm, Merfolk, Tron, and Eldrazi Taxes.
Usually I'm on a red Experimental Frenzy list, but my Mystic Forges came in the mail so I decided to try them out. I don't have my decklist handy, but I think I played something like this:
I don't remember my sideboard offhand, but it was still mostly red based.
Anyways, this list was far from optimized, I barely had time to make what card swaps I did make before things started. What I can say is this:
1. Thoughtcast is insane in this sort of build. In my 4 rounds, which consisted of 10 games, I managed to have 3 games where I was able to play my cards and then Thoughtcast on turn 1 or 2 for 1 mana.
2. Mystic Forge is interesting. I got to play it several times, and as weird as it is to say, I think that on raw power level it is weaker than Experimental Frenzy. This probably seems odd, but the reason for this is that you can't play any lands off the top, and any spells are also blanks. That said, it does free you from red in a sense, though it is still immensely helpful to have access to red mana due to Bomat Couriers activation, and Bomat is a card you want access to with any sort of Future Sight like build. But, the ability to clear uncastable cards from the top does help a lot, provided you have a little bit of card draw to ensure you have lands to play. It's also nice that Forge lets you better time your fetches. Overall I like it more than Frenzy, but that's only because Frenzy heavily incentivizes red while Mystic Forge lets you keep your options open.
3. Urza was unplayable. I drew it in 3 games, cast in 1 and lost. The other two it was uncastable but it would have won me the game if I could cast it. The double blue is just too big a cost to pay, and I found I never really had enough permanents to abuse the mana. At the most, I was able to generate 10 mana and get 2 more cards, but doing so meant giving up most of my offense for the turn. It just didn't work well with a going wide strategy.
4. On the other hand, Sai was incredible. Mystic Forge really turbo charges Sai. On Sai's side, you can activate to draw cards and clear the top, while on the Forges side you can cast many spells, generating many triggers each turn. Also, while several activations per turn do need a lot of blue, casting it only needs a single blue, and thanks to the ample number of 0 drops in our deck, even if you're curving out on turn 3, it's not impossible to play it, then play a 0 and guarantee some value.
Going forward I think I want -1 Urza, +1 Sai, -1 Overseer, +1 Master. I also want a third Forge but I'm unsure on that cut. The deck can really only support so many bigger cards... maybe the second Sai is a bit greedy, but Sai/Forge make for one hell of a combination.
The trouble is where to put him? He costs one, so the logic spot is to replace Vault Skirge. There's probably as many or more flying creatures in Modern as creatures with haste but the 'Brute has to pay for his evasion so he's probably not good enough. It's still kind of funny though.
Another, perhaps weirder thought, is Emry, Lurker of the Loch. She might be a fun-of. If you can't cast her for U, you're doing it wrong - or just losing. I pulled one; I may just have to try it.
I've tried Gingerbrute and All that Glitters and got one 5-0 so far (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/2311059#online) and some 4-1. I hope some of the cards turn out to be viable in Affinity since the deck is struggling a bit and it's not a surprise when you look at all the "anti-Affinity" cards that has been printed in the last couple of sets:
You have to careful that All that Glitters doesn't turn in to a two-for-one but it's powerful and plays around stony effects. Gingerbrute usually performs well and it's a Gingerbread man:D
On average, how is All That Glitters better than Ensoul Artifact? I'd think that Ensoul Artifact's ability to enchant noncreature artifacts outdoes All That Glitters' potential for pump beyond 5/5.
The downsides to All that Glitters are obvious as are it's upsides. An 8/8 Memnite can hold the fort in a way an 8/1 cannot. But lose the Memnite, lose the AtG.
Not animating non-creature artifacts is a weakness compared to Ensoul Artifact, and W is new for the main-deck, but the potential for extra bigness seems worth all of that.
Not sticking to Inkmoth Nexus is another sore point, but if it gets there it doesn't really matter does it?
I cut the Experimental Frenzy copies and the last Master of Etherium and my fun-of Shrapnel Blast for four copies of AtG. I retained all four copies of Galvanic Blast and I kept the main deck Mountaim and swapped one Blinkmoth Nexus for a Plains (I know, Heresy!).
I played a game where I stuck AtG on a Memnite turn-two and started smashing. It actually turned out to work and I won despite a pretty mediocre hand. Cranial Plating would have been another turn slower and the Memnite would have been vulnerable.
The main thing it adds is four more ways of getting there quickly. I'm finding if I don't get there quickly too often I'm not getting there at all. Turn two AtG followed by another turn three is pretty good and much less mana-intensive than two Platings would be.
Traditional Affinity is probably dead, at least as far as competitive play goes. The deck wasn't performing all that well before, and it just lost its best card.
Scales was less reliant on Opal so it might be salvageable, I'd keep an eye to see if any interesting lists pop up.
I think it has to find another way to play out the hand by turn 3. Without Mox Opal, you should remove all the 3-drops and insert the full set of Memnite and Frogmite ("real" affinity cards that will almost always cost 0). With 12x 0-drops you don't need Mox Opal to empty your hand quickly... so much so that when I tested I actually successfully used Lupine Prototype as 2-of (never once was it unable to attack the turn after playing, out of over a dozen matches). Without the powered up creatures, use tempered steel to power up the wide board, which suggests you go monowhite, which makes All that Glitters and Dispatch auto includes.
Maindeck as tested is hyper fast, but weak to turn 3 wraths. Oddly enough it's quite resilient to Stony Silence effects (Karn Creator, Ouphe). Karn Scion comes in post sideboard for the card draw and because it produces big threats that survive Anger of Gods. Banishing Light or Generous Gift come in as white's best flexile removal.
Tested with over a dozen MTGO matches, and am undefeated. I'm not a good player, so either I got lucky with the matchups or the deck is actually quite good.
Another thing that might need a revisit is Tempered Steel and Steel Overseer. Admittedly the overseer seems a bit slow in comparison to certain things in the meta
edit:Whoops didnt see you mention tempered there expro
I think it has to find another way to play out the hand by turn 3. Without Mox Opal, you should remove all the 3-drops and insert the full set of Memnite and Frogmite ("real" affinity cards that will almost always cost 0). With 12x 0-drops you don't need Mox Opal to empty your hand quickly... so much so that when I tested I actually successfully used Lupine Prototype as 2-of (never once was it unable to attack the turn after playing, out of over a dozen matches). Without the powered up creatures, use tempered steel to power up the wide board, which suggests you go monowhite, which makes All that Glitters and Dispatch auto includes.
Maindeck as tested is hyper fast, but weak to turn 3 wraths. Oddly enough it's quite resilient to Stony Silence effects (Karn Creator, Ouphe). Karn Scion comes in post sideboard for the card draw and because it produces big threats that survive Anger of Gods. Banishing Light or Generous Gift come in as white's best flexile removal.
Tested with over a dozen MTGO matches, and am undefeated. I'm not a good player, so either I got lucky with the matchups or the deck is actually quite good.
May you post a list?
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Decks played: Modern:
0 Affinity;
URG Delver
URGW Countercats
(Here you can find some video contents about Countercats and Temur Delver decks)
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Affinity apparently posted the third best results in GP Bilbao. Who knew Affinity was still a thing?
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
The only game I got Experimental Frenzy into play was against Humans; it was nuts and I won that game. The deck dumped on me the third game and I got ROFL-stomped.
I didn't have the maybe-board cards I needed to rearrange the deck as I wanted so I wound up with two Relic of Progenitus main-deck. I'll probably try the version with an Island and a Mountain with Master of Etherium in greater quantities; I ran only one main-deck tonight.
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Glimmervoid
4 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Mountain
[22 Creatures]
2 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Signal Pest
4 Arcbound Ravager
3 Steel Overseer
4 Vault Skirge
1 Master of Etherium
4 Mox Opal
1 Welding Jar
4 Galvanic Blast
2 Relic of Progenitus
4 Springleaf Drum
4 Cranial Plating
2 Experimental Frenzy
2 Spellskite
3 Etched Champion
2 Thoughtseize
2 Ray of Revelation
2 Whipflare
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Ghirapur Aether Grid
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
RIP sounds like a strong card, but I don't think I would play it if it means blanking ravangers
Are we going to have to play Cerenomious or Thoughtseize to fight Karn?
The draw was Mox Opal, Signal Pest, Springleaf Drum and four zero-drop creatures. I never drew another mana source. It was actually a pretty quick game and my opponent couldn't get his Storm going so the 'Bots won.
How weird is that?
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Usually I'm on a red Experimental Frenzy list, but my Mystic Forges came in the mail so I decided to try them out. I don't have my decklist handy, but I think I played something like this:
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Inkmoth Nexus
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Island
4 Darksteel Citadel
Creatures 27
4 Ornithopter
2 Memnite
2 Arcbound Worker
4 Signal Pest
1 Hope of Ghirapur
4 Bomat Courier
2 Steel Overseer
4 Arcbound Ravager
2 Master of Etherium
1 Sai, Master Thopterist
1 Urza, Lord High Artificer
2 Mystic Forge
4 Cranial Plating
4 Springleaf Drum
2 Thoughtcast
4 Mox Opal
I don't remember my sideboard offhand, but it was still mostly red based.
Anyways, this list was far from optimized, I barely had time to make what card swaps I did make before things started. What I can say is this:
1. Thoughtcast is insane in this sort of build. In my 4 rounds, which consisted of 10 games, I managed to have 3 games where I was able to play my cards and then Thoughtcast on turn 1 or 2 for 1 mana.
2. Mystic Forge is interesting. I got to play it several times, and as weird as it is to say, I think that on raw power level it is weaker than Experimental Frenzy. This probably seems odd, but the reason for this is that you can't play any lands off the top, and any spells are also blanks. That said, it does free you from red in a sense, though it is still immensely helpful to have access to red mana due to Bomat Couriers activation, and Bomat is a card you want access to with any sort of Future Sight like build. But, the ability to clear uncastable cards from the top does help a lot, provided you have a little bit of card draw to ensure you have lands to play. It's also nice that Forge lets you better time your fetches. Overall I like it more than Frenzy, but that's only because Frenzy heavily incentivizes red while Mystic Forge lets you keep your options open.
3. Urza was unplayable. I drew it in 3 games, cast in 1 and lost. The other two it was uncastable but it would have won me the game if I could cast it. The double blue is just too big a cost to pay, and I found I never really had enough permanents to abuse the mana. At the most, I was able to generate 10 mana and get 2 more cards, but doing so meant giving up most of my offense for the turn. It just didn't work well with a going wide strategy.
4. On the other hand, Sai was incredible. Mystic Forge really turbo charges Sai. On Sai's side, you can activate to draw cards and clear the top, while on the Forges side you can cast many spells, generating many triggers each turn. Also, while several activations per turn do need a lot of blue, casting it only needs a single blue, and thanks to the ample number of 0 drops in our deck, even if you're curving out on turn 3, it's not impossible to play it, then play a 0 and guarantee some value.
Going forward I think I want -1 Urza, +1 Sai, -1 Overseer, +1 Master. I also want a third Forge but I'm unsure on that cut. The deck can really only support so many bigger cards... maybe the second Sai is a bit greedy, but Sai/Forge make for one hell of a combination.
Hardest matchup, and the one I lost to, was against W/U Control. Teferis, Narsets, Opts and all the accompanying shenanigans.
Any advice if I'm matched up against this again?
Managed to stick an Experimental Frenzy in game 1 and that felt AMAZING. But the two games after that ground me to dust.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Bloodbraid Elf
Goblin Guide
Mantis Rider
Monastery Swiftspear
Arclight Phoenix ???
Hazoret, the Fervent ???
Bloodghast ???
The trouble is where to put him? He costs one, so the logic spot is to replace Vault Skirge. There's probably as many or more flying creatures in Modern as creatures with haste but the 'Brute has to pay for his evasion so he's probably not good enough. It's still kind of funny though.
Another, perhaps weirder thought, is Emry, Lurker of the Loch. She might be a fun-of. If you can't cast her for U, you're doing it wrong - or just losing. I pulled one; I may just have to try it.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Collector Ouphe
Plague Engineer
Karn, the Great Creator a main board stony in many artifact decks and in tron
Wrenn and Six
Force of Vigor
Blast Zone
Shenanigans
You have to careful that All that Glitters doesn't turn in to a two-for-one but it's powerful and plays around stony effects. Gingerbrute usually performs well and it's a Gingerbread man:D
The downsides to All that Glitters are obvious as are it's upsides. An 8/8 Memnite can hold the fort in a way an 8/1 cannot. But lose the Memnite, lose the AtG.
Not animating non-creature artifacts is a weakness compared to Ensoul Artifact, and W is new for the main-deck, but the potential for extra bigness seems worth all of that.
Not sticking to Inkmoth Nexus is another sore point, but if it gets there it doesn't really matter does it?
I cut the Experimental Frenzy copies and the last Master of Etherium and my fun-of Shrapnel Blast for four copies of AtG. I retained all four copies of Galvanic Blast and I kept the main deck Mountaim and swapped one Blinkmoth Nexus for a Plains (I know, Heresy!).
I played a game where I stuck AtG on a Memnite turn-two and started smashing. It actually turned out to work and I won despite a pretty mediocre hand. Cranial Plating would have been another turn slower and the Memnite would have been vulnerable.
The main thing it adds is four more ways of getting there quickly. I'm finding if I don't get there quickly too often I'm not getting there at all. Turn two AtG followed by another turn three is pretty good and much less mana-intensive than two Platings would be.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Scales was less reliant on Opal so it might be salvageable, I'd keep an eye to see if any interesting lists pop up.
Maindeck as tested is hyper fast, but weak to turn 3 wraths. Oddly enough it's quite resilient to Stony Silence effects (Karn Creator, Ouphe). Karn Scion comes in post sideboard for the card draw and because it produces big threats that survive Anger of Gods. Banishing Light or Generous Gift come in as white's best flexile removal.
Tested with over a dozen MTGO matches, and am undefeated. I'm not a good player, so either I got lucky with the matchups or the deck is actually quite good.
edit:Whoops didnt see you mention tempered there expro
May you post a list?
Modern: