Then maybe this card isn't as good as I had thought it would be, seeing as it gets countered by just resolving a Kor Spiritdancer
No, I think it's good. It's like a Stoney Silence against Affinity. It doesn't win on the spot, but it makes it so much harder for your opponent.
It get's kinda countered with a resolved Kor Spirit Dancer, but that are only 4 cards in the deck. It isn't very likely to always be answered that way.
Also Favor of the Mighty is good against Infect too.
Favor of the Mighty is pretty interesting, I've never seen that in Modern. If you were going to put a Bogle specific hate card in your sideboard, I'd recommend Glaring Spotlight. I'd consider Spellskite or Chalice better and more versatile than Favor. You don't want to give Spiritdancer pro-anything, let alone multiple Spiritdancers potentially.
I've been playing this for a couple weeks and have had good results. I'm still tinkering around with it. I guess the idea is that abrupt decay replaces Path and Nature's Claim opening up more room in the sb. Decay gets rid of any hate and most combos that you would ever want to get rid of. I usually end up bringing in the 3rd decay for games 2 and 3. I have loved Evil Presence. It feels like I bring it in almost every game. I originally just had Tron in mind but it's great against tons of other decks. I am anxious for someone else to play around with it. There is potential here for sure. Its probably better to run 21 lands. I haven't run into a whole lot of trouble yet but I think 20 is pushing it.
This deck http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/250437#paper has been showing up in the Dailies...very cool call with 2x Spellskite main, especially with the potential for more mirror matches.
I'm not sold on the Spellskite idea. Looking at the GP Madrid day 2 metagame as an example, we have the following decks:
16.8% - Uxy Delver - Pretty bad - Occasionally useful for blocking something or reducing bolt damage, but generally ineffective and not at all what you want to be doing in the matchup. Doesn't help against Pyromancer/Delver.
10.5% - BGx - Decent - Pretty useful for soaking Abrupt Decay and sometimes as an extra creature vs Liliana.
10.0% - Scapeshift - Pretty bad - Can occasionally force them into an 8-land Scapeshift rather than a 7-land, but the half turn that you're gaining you probably already lost trying to fit the Spellskite into your curve.
10.0% - Affinity - Bad - Works against Arcbound Ravager only, which isn't a huge problem in the first place.
9.1% - Birthing Pod - Bad - They don't have much removal anyway
8.6% - Burn - Pretty bad - Ok as a blocker but you would rather aura up a Bogle. Also enables otherwise dead Searing Blaze.
5.9% - UWR - Bad - Doesn't protect against much.
5.0% - Splinter Twin - Great - Blocks their combo and not trivial to deal with.
3.6% - Bogles - Great - Blocks everything until removed.
2.7% - Tron - Bad - Stops Karn and nothing else?
1.8% - Jeskai Ascendancy - Bad - Almost dead?
1.8% - GW Hatebears - Bad - Nothing important to protect against.
1.8% - Soul Sisters - Bad - Nothing important to protect against.
Spellskites are really not worth running maindeck just to protect Spiritdancers from random removal. This interaction is generally too slow to be of much use anyway and decks that play removal will often play enough to handle both. I would only consider Spellskites if you have knowledge of a favorable meta with a lot of Twin, Bogles, BGx and Infect. Even then, it's probably better from the sideboard.
hi guys, i really don't understand why everybody prefer playing ethersworn canonist over eidolon of rhetoric...can someone tell me why the first is better?
canonist : costs 1 less, so you can play it one turn before
eidolon : doesn't die by any bolt, and pump ethereal armor
And Rule of Law is better than Eidolon since it doesn't die to creature removal But Canonist gets played over both because it comes down a turn faster and is easier to cast... Especially since everyone is dipping below 20 lands and no longer running Noble Hierarch...
Hey, so my local meta is heavily delver and burn. Worth main decking Leyline? I saw a list on Mtgo that main decked 4
Leyline isn't worth it against delver. It's in the sideboard for Burn and Liliana/discard decks, but even if those are overrepresented in your area I wouldn't recommend maindeck Leylines. A card that is good against 40% of the field and really bad against the other 60% isn't worth maindecking. The best way to improve the Burn/Delver matchup is probably to add a couple of spirit links to the maindeck, if you want to take the extreme angle you can remove the Spiritdancers as they're weak in those matchups.
I totally agree with him. The format is flooded with delvers and burn and they are 2 of our best matchup. Leyline is a sideboard card we dont need it in our main 60.
I have tested a little the spirit link in my main and i like it. It can shut down an opponents fatty creature.
I didnt have tested rule of law or ethersworn canonist... is it good enough in the side???
My true fear with boggle is to encounter too much chalice of the void
The only deck I really play is Bogles and I REALLY want to make it three colors (and unstoppable).
My thoughts with adding black allows our Bogle to be bigger and more elusive on turn 2 with 5 power and built in evasion. Then we simply need to prevent our opponent from winning. I love all three options of Orzhov Charm to help us do this. Also going with Burrenton Forge Tender with Delver and Burn so big right now. Thoughts???
i prefer the GWR version more than the GBW one...you get boros charm that is so powerfull....
1) it saves our creat....PERMANENTS to an oblivion stone, E.E @1, and lot of other cards that hurt us
2) it gives to an our gladecover x/x with trample (where x is very high ;)) DOUBLE STRIKE, that usually means GG (doubling the attack)..
3) last but not least an instant unexpected bolt for 4 damage really not bad
I agree Boros Charm is good, the problem is that it does not help bogles weaknesses except for the indestructible option. Orzhov Charm has the removal option which is huge against the decks that beat bogles (infect, pod, twin, even affinity). Orzhov also has the return to hand option against E.E, Liliana, sweepers. Finally, the dreaded T1 thoughtseize is mitigated by us being able to bring back our creature T2
Hey guys, what do you think about running a couple Revenge of the Hunted? Yes there's pretty much not chance of hardcasting it but if we top deck it and are able to pay the miracle cost it seems like it would be a devastating card.
Hey guys, what do you think about running a couple Revenge of the Hunted? Yes there's pretty much not chance of hardcasting it but if we top deck it and are able to pay the miracle cost it seems like it would be a devastating card.
I don't hate it, but I do prefer Become Immense. What card are you cutting for Revenge? It's hard to cut 1 drop auras for something like that.
why is orzhov charm huge against infect, pod, twin, even affinity? i see that orzhov charm could help against discards and sacrifices on our creature, but you are cutting 8 umbras that are good vs wrath effects...and in this meta T1 thoughseize or Liliana deck are much less played than before...now the meta is UR delver and Scapeshift (or at least in italy, and i think it will be so in GP Milan in december), so i think the gameplan is to gain more life possible really fast..and splashing for the 3 color could not be the best idea :/
edit : ok, got it, orzhov charm take also the slot og PtE against infect, twin and affinity
Right. Can take the place of PTE, while also protecting us from wrath effects and helping vs thoughtseize/Lilliana. While not as explosive as Boros Charm, I think it's a little more well rounded for what bogles needs. I'm going to try it out this weekend and I'll post results.
Nothing in the deck is particularly bad in the matchup (depending on your list). I pull the Spiritdancers out. There is a ton of interaction in the delver deck and unless the moment is perfect, it's not worth it. I usually also side out an umbra. There is zero chance of seeing any kind of board sweeper.
Bring in every lifelink card in the board and every aura card that gets you through blockers (spirit mantle, trample etc). I would also bring in nature's claim/seal and make sure you either draw or fetch to a basic forest at some point (spellskite, blood moon). I don't bring Leyline in. I could see an argument to do it with all the burn but I just don't think its worth it.
Watch out for Hibernation. The few times I have lost to delver it has happened because of that card. If you're in the lead on the board then I would just make sure to not overextend. Stay away from fetching the arbor in game 1 unless you have to. Delver is a ton of burn and usually 3 or 4 vapor snags as well. Even with an umbra its a stretch. Its a little more feasible in games 2 and 3 when the vapor snags are likely boarded out by the opponent. My plan is usually to land a bogle and wait until the opponent taps out at some point to get some form of lifelink or spirit mantle equipped through the counters. Unflinching courage is the ideal card but at 3 mana it can be tricky to land. That's all I can think of. There isn't a whole lot to bring in because it's a really good matchup to begin with.
So fellow Bogglers. It's been a while. I've been playing Magic every once in a while and trying many different decks. I played Bogles last week, but after Twin, Scapeshift, and Amulet, I dropped at 1-2. For this FNM, there were 28 players.
Round 1 vs. Boros Reckoner.dec. This guy usually plays Mono White Death and Taxes in both formats and is an amazing player at it. He also played the "Amulet Deck" before an optimal version was made. He played Spitemare and Boros Reckoner. I draw many Auras, Bogle, and 1 Path to Exile in each game. he never really stood a chance, although he tried to do a Volcano Hellion with Spitemare in play and I had to Path to Exile it. 2-0.
Round 2 vs. GB Infect. This guy is an amazing Infect player and has recently switched to GB, which was odd to me because I have more faith in Tom Ross's UG Infect deck. Anyway, I draw the perfect hate, holding creatures with First Strike back and slowly swinging with Path to Exile up. I played really safely in both games and even kept a 3 Spider Umbra, 2 land, and Kor Spiritdancer/Bogle hand. This hand crushed. 2-0.
Round 3 vs. Mono Red. In the first game, he drew 2 Swiftspear who got a good attack in with 1 mana burn spells and he had enough burn to finish me off. Game 2, he kept a 1 land hand with Swiftspear and Goblin Guide and missed a land drop, playing Goblin Guide into revealing Daybreak Coronet. He knew it was over then. In the final game, he gets Leyline of Punishment, but I have Nature's Claim in hand, which I don't play because I am the only one putting pressure on while he's playing Relic of Progenitus's. I draw Daybreak Coronet and it is enough for lethal. 2-1.
Round 4 vs. Scapeshift. In game 1, I mull to 5 and he mulls to 6. I am forced to go all-in on 2 Dryad Arbor and it didn't work as he Scapeshifted for 36 damage. In the 2nd game, I have a crushing hand, but make a mistake of putting just Spirit Link on my Bogle with double Rancor and he could have flashed Snapcaster Mage to kill it, forcing me to rebuild with Kor Spiritdancer next turn. Alas, he did not have it and died on turn 4. In the final game, I mull to 6. I am forced to keep a Gaddock Teeg/Umbra hand. He sided out Lightning Bolt and didn't have countermagic at the time. He tol me that in game 2, he had Lightning Bolt, but not Remand. Then he switched after a Bogle beat him in game 2 I won with a big Teeg while he showed 2 Dig Through Time, Cryptic Command, and Repeal in hand. 2-1.
Round 5 vs. Affinity. I used to play this guy all the time in the finals of Standard when UW Delver was a thing. He both played it, so we both got many mirror matches this was, as well as the rest of the tournament. We drew 0-0-3 and prize split. It's a 50/50 matchup, so it would have been interesting, but to save time and go home "early," we split.
4-0-1. It felt good to do well again. Many people have the feeling that Bogles is a very inconsistent deck, but I found the opposite. It has been very consistent the last year that I have played it; it just has some poor matchups and occasionally you run into those (like me last week at 1-2 drop).
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
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No, I think it's good. It's like a Stoney Silence against Affinity. It doesn't win on the spot, but it makes it so much harder for your opponent.
It get's kinda countered with a resolved Kor Spirit Dancer, but that are only 4 cards in the deck. It isn't very likely to always be answered that way.
Also Favor of the Mighty is good against Infect too.
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Razorverge Thicket
2 Temple Garden
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Slippery Bogle
4 Gladecover Scout
3 Kor Spiritdancer
4 Ethereal Armor
4 Daybreak Coronet
4 Hyena Umbra
3 Spider Umbra
3 Keen sense
2 Spirit Mantle
2 Unflinching Courage
1 Spirit Link
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Gaddock Teeg
3 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
1 Spirit Link
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Evil Presence
1 Spirit Mantle
I've been playing this for a couple weeks and have had good results. I'm still tinkering around with it. I guess the idea is that abrupt decay replaces Path and Nature's Claim opening up more room in the sb. Decay gets rid of any hate and most combos that you would ever want to get rid of. I usually end up bringing in the 3rd decay for games 2 and 3. I have loved Evil Presence. It feels like I bring it in almost every game. I originally just had Tron in mind but it's great against tons of other decks. I am anxious for someone else to play around with it. There is potential here for sure. Its probably better to run 21 lands. I haven't run into a whole lot of trouble yet but I think 20 is pushing it.
I'm not sold on the Spellskite idea. Looking at the GP Madrid day 2 metagame as an example, we have the following decks:
Spellskites are really not worth running maindeck just to protect Spiritdancers from random removal. This interaction is generally too slow to be of much use anyway and decks that play removal will often play enough to handle both. I would only consider Spellskites if you have knowledge of a favorable meta with a lot of Twin, Bogles, BGx and Infect. Even then, it's probably better from the sideboard.
And Rule of Law is better than Eidolon since it doesn't die to creature removal But Canonist gets played over both because it comes down a turn faster and is easier to cast... Especially since everyone is dipping below 20 lands and no longer running Noble Hierarch...
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
How heavy? You can beat either deck without Leylines so I wouldnt. My local meta is roughly 50% matchups where I bring in Leyline G2.
Jeskai Ascendancy combo is really the reason people have started running Ethersworn Canonist lately.
Leyline isn't worth it against delver. It's in the sideboard for Burn and Liliana/discard decks, but even if those are overrepresented in your area I wouldn't recommend maindeck Leylines. A card that is good against 40% of the field and really bad against the other 60% isn't worth maindecking. The best way to improve the Burn/Delver matchup is probably to add a couple of spirit links to the maindeck, if you want to take the extreme angle you can remove the Spiritdancers as they're weak in those matchups.
I have tested a little the spirit link in my main and i like it. It can shut down an opponents fatty creature.
I didnt have tested rule of law or ethersworn canonist... is it good enough in the side???
My true fear with boggle is to encounter too much chalice of the void
GWAura-HexproofGW
My thoughts with adding black allows our Bogle to be bigger and more elusive on turn 2 with 5 power and built in evasion. Then we simply need to prevent our opponent from winning. I love all three options of Orzhov Charm to help us do this. Also going with Burrenton Forge Tender with Delver and Burn so big right now. Thoughts???
4 Mana Confluence
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Windswept Heath
2 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
1 Overgrown Tomb
4 Slippery Bogle
4 Gladecover Scout
3 Burrenton Forge-Tender
Enchantments:
4 Ethereal Armor
4 Rancor
4 Predator's Gambit
4 Deviant Glee
1 Vampiric Link
2 Spirit Link
4 Daybreak Coronet
4 Orzhov Charm
2 Abrupt Decay
I agree Boros Charm is good, the problem is that it does not help bogles weaknesses except for the indestructible option. Orzhov Charm has the removal option which is huge against the decks that beat bogles (infect, pod, twin, even affinity). Orzhov also has the return to hand option against E.E, Liliana, sweepers. Finally, the dreaded T1 thoughtseize is mitigated by us being able to bring back our creature T2
Modern
UBR Grixis Control
U Merfolk
Pauper
U Mono U Delver
Ancestral Visions is freed
I don't hate it, but I do prefer Become Immense. What card are you cutting for Revenge? It's hard to cut 1 drop auras for something like that.
Right. Can take the place of PTE, while also protecting us from wrath effects and helping vs thoughtseize/Lilliana. While not as explosive as Boros Charm, I think it's a little more well rounded for what bogles needs. I'm going to try it out this weekend and I'll post results.
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
Bring in every lifelink card in the board and every aura card that gets you through blockers (spirit mantle, trample etc). I would also bring in nature's claim/seal and make sure you either draw or fetch to a basic forest at some point (spellskite, blood moon). I don't bring Leyline in. I could see an argument to do it with all the burn but I just don't think its worth it.
Watch out for Hibernation. The few times I have lost to delver it has happened because of that card. If you're in the lead on the board then I would just make sure to not overextend. Stay away from fetching the arbor in game 1 unless you have to. Delver is a ton of burn and usually 3 or 4 vapor snags as well. Even with an umbra its a stretch. Its a little more feasible in games 2 and 3 when the vapor snags are likely boarded out by the opponent. My plan is usually to land a bogle and wait until the opponent taps out at some point to get some form of lifelink or spirit mantle equipped through the counters. Unflinching courage is the ideal card but at 3 mana it can be tricky to land. That's all I can think of. There isn't a whole lot to bring in because it's a really good matchup to begin with.
I'm no expert but that's my 2 cents
Round 1 vs. Boros Reckoner.dec. This guy usually plays Mono White Death and Taxes in both formats and is an amazing player at it. He also played the "Amulet Deck" before an optimal version was made. He played Spitemare and Boros Reckoner. I draw many Auras, Bogle, and 1 Path to Exile in each game. he never really stood a chance, although he tried to do a Volcano Hellion with Spitemare in play and I had to Path to Exile it. 2-0.
Round 2 vs. GB Infect. This guy is an amazing Infect player and has recently switched to GB, which was odd to me because I have more faith in Tom Ross's UG Infect deck. Anyway, I draw the perfect hate, holding creatures with First Strike back and slowly swinging with Path to Exile up. I played really safely in both games and even kept a 3 Spider Umbra, 2 land, and Kor Spiritdancer/Bogle hand. This hand crushed. 2-0.
Round 3 vs. Mono Red. In the first game, he drew 2 Swiftspear who got a good attack in with 1 mana burn spells and he had enough burn to finish me off. Game 2, he kept a 1 land hand with Swiftspear and Goblin Guide and missed a land drop, playing Goblin Guide into revealing Daybreak Coronet. He knew it was over then. In the final game, he gets Leyline of Punishment, but I have Nature's Claim in hand, which I don't play because I am the only one putting pressure on while he's playing Relic of Progenitus's. I draw Daybreak Coronet and it is enough for lethal. 2-1.
Round 4 vs. Scapeshift. In game 1, I mull to 5 and he mulls to 6. I am forced to go all-in on 2 Dryad Arbor and it didn't work as he Scapeshifted for 36 damage. In the 2nd game, I have a crushing hand, but make a mistake of putting just Spirit Link on my Bogle with double Rancor and he could have flashed Snapcaster Mage to kill it, forcing me to rebuild with Kor Spiritdancer next turn. Alas, he did not have it and died on turn 4. In the final game, I mull to 6. I am forced to keep a Gaddock Teeg/Umbra hand. He sided out Lightning Bolt and didn't have countermagic at the time. He tol me that in game 2, he had Lightning Bolt, but not Remand. Then he switched after a Bogle beat him in game 2 I won with a big Teeg while he showed 2 Dig Through Time, Cryptic Command, and Repeal in hand. 2-1.
Round 5 vs. Affinity. I used to play this guy all the time in the finals of Standard when UW Delver was a thing. He both played it, so we both got many mirror matches this was, as well as the rest of the tournament. We drew 0-0-3 and prize split. It's a 50/50 matchup, so it would have been interesting, but to save time and go home "early," we split.
4-0-1. It felt good to do well again. Many people have the feeling that Bogles is a very inconsistent deck, but I found the opposite. It has been very consistent the last year that I have played it; it just has some poor matchups and occasionally you run into those (like me last week at 1-2 drop).
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)