To be honest, I have only tried mine. So I cannot really tell
Hoogland's list is not so far from the list I have. Differences would be:
i) I prefer to run knight of the reliquary over one-of magus of the moon and fulminator mage. KotR is a better beatdown option, it protects kiki (see my post above) and I recently noticed that with village bell-ringer + kiki, you basically have as much mana as there are lands in your decks (see the video I posted yesterday when I pathed anafenza game 1, with apparently no mana left open);
ii) I prefer to run arbor elf and utopia sprawl over the classical ramp package (birds/noble). It is more explosive (it can do 4 manas turn 2) and I have - with utopia - less exposure to be stone-rained with a "bolted bird". I can also run pyroclasm in the sideboard with a decreased exposure.
iii) He has more draw-engines than I have (courser / domri / more walls).
I am not too found of the ghostway lists, as the more instants you add, the more it looks clunky to me.
The list which focuses on abilities that requires creatures to be tapped has summoning sickness has an unevitable flaw (but I have never tried it).
So apparently we won't have the chance to have the comments of the good old J. as here on MTG salvation, we are "a bunch of people slamming bad cards such as Ghost Away". Do not know which list he looked at but anyway I do believe it is "slightly" condenscending.
So try out both my list and his list and make your mind/mix
So apparently we won't have the chance to have the comments of the good old J. as here on MTG salvation, we are "a bunch of people slamming bad cards such as Ghost Away". Do not know which list he looked at but anyway I do believe it is "slightly" condenscending.
So try out both my list and his list and make your mind/mix
To be fair, most Magic players speak in hyperbole. When he says "a bunch of people slamming bad cards such as Ghost Away" you can assume that he really just does not like the card. You should not take offense. Also his list is Baller. I like that it is just filled with mono good cards. Nothing in it is a shame to draw other than mana dorks. Bellringer is just very bad. Unlike Twin decks we do not have snapcaster and cantrips to offset playing a 1/4.
To close the debate: I do not advice playing ghostway. Reading before talking is better.
I also recommend good stuff, instead of sub-card. Village as a one-of is probably as bad than magus or eidolon as a one-of in certain MUs (even tron does not care about it).
I do not like the 7 walls in his list either. He should bring pressure on the board, not hiding behind walls.
As much as I dislike walls having a mildly relevant 2 drop that works fantastically with Resto is great. What is wrong hiding behind walls? Either we delay the game and combo out or we outvalue them with our Resto/Omen combo. The issue with that lists I have been seeing here are that while yes, they have a little more pressure with knights and Voices they do not make good use of Resto. They are also less equipped to go into the late game. With Sprawl/Elf/bellringer and wall of roots it has even more dead draws than Hoogland versions. With Courser, Domri, and more ewitnesses we can go toe to toe with the slower matchups.
If you play against affinity,tron or infect, you will soon notice that walls do not buy you a single turn. I am not against drawing cards, but I would rather play a lower wall counts, with courser for card advantage.
I think the only thing I will retain of his list is the use of phyrexian unlife, which makes courser fine in certain MUs where i would have preferred running finks + resto for life gain.
I have played against alot of affinity, and a bit of Tron and infect. The walls normally end up soaking 2-6 damage from Memnites which is worth it IMO. They are really good in matchups like merfolk, Abzan Company and Zoo. Against infect we are disadvantaged BUT with 3 paths and 2 Domris we have game. Walls can also block the elves which is nice. Against Tron Walls do nothing, but at the same time Voice is not an all star. I could see Knight finding ghost quarter being nice but it seems slow and there are only 2 knight and 1 quarter. Having Fulminator mage serves the same kind of roll.
Thanks. I have made one game with your list (not significant enough to draw any conclusion) and lost 1-2 against elves. He was too fast when he was on the play. When on the draw, I had the time to chord for linvala. He however had removal on game 3.
I had the impression that your list was running smoothly but was missing T1 acceleration to cope with a deck such as elves. I also missed mass removals (pyroclasm or bonfire of the damned) in the sideboard (I sideboarded the ghostly prison but I have not seen one).
I've been wanting to return to Kiki-Pod ever since I stopped playing and sold my collection, and like an idiot, expected not to come back.
So I did my best to put something similar together. I did ok at preliminary PTQ (3-2, losing round 5 due to a game loss because I had other cards in my dual flip box...ugh). Then I got smashed in the SCG IQ. Nonetheless here's the list for those interested. It's RUG/Temur.
Played a lot like a green control deck, and did well in playtesting (Sultai control, Tron, Martyr Proc, Anafenza Company, Jund and Affinity are my only regular playtest group). But boy did I get smashed at the IQ. Lost to Infect in round 1 after an utter boneheaded mistake in forgetting my Spellskite trigger, and then lost to BW Tokens, and Jund until finally dropping. Not sure if it deserves a second look, but I'm looking back into Naya for now. Any feedback would be appreciated.
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Modern
Dredge, Evo-Chord, U/G Faeries, Living End, Something New
@ surfkatt I went back to a «full» kotr/kruphix mix (4-3), with 10 fetches and it is absolutely awesome to filter draws. I will maybe try a couple of domri again and see where it goes.
@ ivg it looks odd to splash blue only to play deceiver and statiscaster. What does the sb look like ? 3 fauna also seems a lot, but if it worked... not a fan if collected in this build (does not work so well with kiki and resto but he only ran 2). I agree with your comments.
@ topper I do not think blue is worth the additional splash.
Any thoughts on this? I like the list but feel like you might want some wall of roots over the nobles to be able to turbocharge your chords. Would also want some more utility in terms of silver bullets in the mainboard. I like the fiery justice though, I had one I my sideboard today and have played with the card before and the card is boss in aggro matchups.
You forgot Tay Jun Hao's sideboard. It can be found here:
Once you get this going, there is no need for walls IMO. I have instead filed the 2-slots with a full voice package for value on the board (plus voice counts as green when you chord, contrary to wall of omens). Kiki + voice also gives a free voice token, which can be quite interesting depending on your board state.
Grim Lavamancer is fantastic. I wanted something cheap to chord for that interacted with the board. Since we do not use our graveyard for much and we do run fetches this seemed ideal.
Elves is a tough matchup. I have played it 3 times and I am a total of 1-2 against it. They are just a little too consistent. Going up to 4 paths and 1 lavamancer really helps but if they draw multiple lords that normally ends it. Even with the faster version I don't think this matchup is good. As someone who used to play elves they are a turn 3-4 deck. Even with your nut draw I think you are still slower. I might end up trying pyroclasm for the matchup even though it kills a handful of our creatures.
Other things I have been thinking about are cutting the finks for coursers. The Coursers have been outstanding and the finks have only been good versus burn and with domri. Issue with that is Restoration Angel gets worse if we cut finks. I might get to test more tonight and see if it is worth it. Also If I switch over to 4 Coursers pyroclasm becomes more appealing.
Grim is nice. I thought about it and then decided not to include it because of the fact that I run KotR.
What is ajani for ? Do you really play the planewalker ?
I agree with you on finks. I have hesitated for a while, switching from courser to finks and vice-versa. But at the end of the day, courser seems to fit the bill better. I took the view - for now - that restoration angel is a fine card on its own and does not necessarily need to blink an other creature when played (other than one targeted by removal).
Ajani is just a powerful card. In a format of terminates and abrupt decays it is very hard to kill. It is great at a stalemate, when you are ahead and when you are behind. It makes all your creatures win Combat. Think of it like a gavony township that can sometimes draw you cards. I have actually been really impressed by it. I have cast it in 2 matchups I thought I did not want it (Amulet Bloom game 1 and Merfolk Game 1) and it was great. Versus Bloom it found a domri and then I killed off a titan by growing linvala and fighting with Domri Next turn. Against merfolk It made my bird huge and I flew over for the win. I can't imagine how insane it is versus Jund/Junk (which is what it is there for). Its also an easy board out in faster matchups.
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Hoogland's list is not so far from the list I have. Differences would be:
i) I prefer to run knight of the reliquary over one-of magus of the moon and fulminator mage. KotR is a better beatdown option, it protects kiki (see my post above) and I recently noticed that with village bell-ringer + kiki, you basically have as much mana as there are lands in your decks (see the video I posted yesterday when I pathed anafenza game 1, with apparently no mana left open);
ii) I prefer to run arbor elf and utopia sprawl over the classical ramp package (birds/noble). It is more explosive (it can do 4 manas turn 2) and I have - with utopia - less exposure to be stone-rained with a "bolted bird". I can also run pyroclasm in the sideboard with a decreased exposure.
iii) He has more draw-engines than I have (courser / domri / more walls).
I am not too found of the ghostway lists, as the more instants you add, the more it looks clunky to me.
The list which focuses on abilities that requires creatures to be tapped has summoning sickness has an unevitable flaw (but I have never tried it).
So try out both my list and his list and make your mind/mix
To be fair, most Magic players speak in hyperbole. When he says "a bunch of people slamming bad cards such as Ghost Away" you can assume that he really just does not like the card. You should not take offense. Also his list is Baller. I like that it is just filled with mono good cards. Nothing in it is a shame to draw other than mana dorks. Bellringer is just very bad. Unlike Twin decks we do not have snapcaster and cantrips to offset playing a 1/4.
I also recommend good stuff, instead of sub-card. Village as a one-of is probably as bad than magus or eidolon as a one-of in certain MUs (even tron does not care about it).
I do not like the 7 walls in his list either. He should bring pressure on the board, not hiding behind walls.
I think the only thing I will retain of his list is the use of phyrexian unlife, which makes courser fine in certain MUs where i would have preferred running finks + resto for life gain.
4x Birds of Paradise
2x Courser of Kruphix
2x Eternal Witness
1x Fulminator Mage
2x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
2x Kitchen Finks
1x Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1x Qasali Pridemage
4x Restoration Angel
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Spellskite
1x Stingscourger
4x Wall of Omens
3x Wall of Roots
2x Fire-Lit Thicket
3x Forest
1x Gavony Township
1x Mountain
1x Plains
2x Razorverge Thicket
1x Sacred Foundry
2x Stomping Ground
1x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
Planeswalker (2)
2x Domri Rade
Instant (7)
4x Chord of Calling
3x Path to Exile
1x Aven Mindcensor
1x Celestial Purge
1x Eidolon of Rhetoric
1x Fulminator Mage
2x Ghostly Prison
1x Magus of the Moon
2x Obstinate Baloth
1x Path to Exile
2x Rest in Peace
3x Stony Silence
Heres my list for Reference.
I had the impression that your list was running smoothly but was missing T1 acceleration to cope with a deck such as elves. I also missed mass removals (pyroclasm or bonfire of the damned) in the sideboard (I sideboarded the ghostly prison but I have not seen one).
So I did my best to put something similar together. I did ok at preliminary PTQ (3-2, losing round 5 due to a game loss because I had other cards in my dual flip box...ugh). Then I got smashed in the SCG IQ. Nonetheless here's the list for those interested. It's RUG/Temur.
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Windswept Heath
4 Copperline Gorge
2 Stomping Ground
1 Steam Vents
1 Breeding Pool
3 Forest
1 Mountain
2 Kessig Wolf Run
Creatures
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Noble Hierarch
3 Wall of Roots
2 Fauna Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Spellskite
1 Nightshade Peddler
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Eternal Witness
3 Courser of Kruphix
4 Deceiver Exarch
4 Fulminator Mage
2 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Keranos, God of Storms
4 Collected Company
3 Chord of Calling
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Rending Volley
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Negate
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Krosan Grip
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Surrak Dragonclaw
Played a lot like a green control deck, and did well in playtesting (Sultai control, Tron, Martyr Proc, Anafenza Company, Jund and Affinity are my only regular playtest group). But boy did I get smashed at the IQ. Lost to Infect in round 1 after an utter boneheaded mistake in forgetting my Spellskite trigger, and then lost to BW Tokens, and Jund until finally dropping. Not sure if it deserves a second look, but I'm looking back into Naya for now. Any feedback would be appreciated.
Modern
Dredge, Evo-Chord, U/G Faeries, Living End, Something New
@ ivg it looks odd to splash blue only to play deceiver and statiscaster. What does the sb look like ? 3 fauna also seems a lot, but if it worked... not a fan if collected in this build (does not work so well with kiki and resto but he only ran 2). I agree with your comments.
@ topper I do not think blue is worth the additional splash.
You forgot Tay Jun Hao's sideboard. It can be found here:
http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpsin15/top-8-decklists-2015-06-28
OR
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Noble Hierarch
4 Voice of Resurgence
3 Fauna Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eternal Witness
4 Kitchen Finks
1 Deceiver Exarch
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Restoration Angel
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Path to Exile
3 Chord of Calling
4 Collected Company
Land (22)
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Forest 1 Plains
2 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
1 Breeding Pool
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Fire-Lit Thicket
2 Gavony Township
1 Horizon Canopy
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Spellskite
1x Path to Exile
2x Stony Silence
2x Negate
1x Qasali Pridemage
2x Fiery Justice
1x Keranos, God of Storms
4x Fulminator Mage
I agree that some of the Noble Hierarch should be Wall of roots (probably two). I also believe he probably doesn't need to have the Spellskite in the sideboard. It could be replaced with something like Aven Mindcensor,Burrenton Forge-Tender,Eidolon of Rhetoric or even Obstinate Baloth
12 other lands
3 arbor elf
3 utopia sprawl
4 knight of the reliquary
4 courser of kruphix
2 domri rade
Once you get this going, there is no need for walls IMO. I have instead filed the 2-slots with a full voice package for value on the board (plus voice counts as green when you chord, contrary to wall of omens). Kiki + voice also gives a free voice token, which can be quite interesting depending on your board state.
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Stomping Ground
2 Temple Garden
3 Forest
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Gavony Township
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Fire-Lit Thicket
Creatures (28)
3 arbor elf
3 voice of resurgence
2 wall of roots
1 qasali pridemage
1 scavenging ooze
1 spellskite
1 fauna shaman
3 knight of the reliquary
3 courser of kruphix
1 village bell-ringer
1 eternal witness
1 fiend hunter
4 restoration angel
1 linvala, keeper of silence
2 kiki-jiki, mirror breaker
3 utopia sprawl
Instants (5)
4 chord of calling
1 path to exile
Planeswalkers (2)
2 Domri rade
1 Burrenton forge-tender
1 Kataki, war's wage
1 Aven mindcensor
1 Fulminator mage
1 Sigarda, host of herons
2 Pyroclasm
1 bonfire of the damned
1 Stony silence
1 Shatterstorm
1 Path to exile
1 Dromoka's command
2 phyrexian unlife
1 Magus of the moon
I will keep you posted.
4x Birds of Paradise
2x Courser of Kruphix
2x Eternal Witness
1x Fulminator Mage
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
2x Kitchen Finks
1x Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1x Qasali Pridemage
4x Restoration Angel
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Spellskite
1x Grim Lavamancer
4x Wall of Omens
3x Wall of Roots
2x Fire-Lit Thicket
3x Forest
1x Gavony Township
1x Mountain
1x Plains
2x Razorverge Thicket
1x Sacred Foundry
2x Stomping Ground
1x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
Planeswalker (2)
2x Domri Rade
1x Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
Instant (7)
4x Chord of Calling
3x Path to Exile
1x Aven Mindcensor
1x Celestial Purge
1x Eidolon of Rhetoric
1x Fulminator Mage
2x Ghostly Prison
1x Magus of the Moon
2x Obstinate Baloth
1x Path to Exile
2x Rest in Peace
1x Phyrexian Unlife
2x Stony Silence
Grim Lavamancer is fantastic. I wanted something cheap to chord for that interacted with the board. Since we do not use our graveyard for much and we do run fetches this seemed ideal.
Elves is a tough matchup. I have played it 3 times and I am a total of 1-2 against it. They are just a little too consistent. Going up to 4 paths and 1 lavamancer really helps but if they draw multiple lords that normally ends it. Even with the faster version I don't think this matchup is good. As someone who used to play elves they are a turn 3-4 deck. Even with your nut draw I think you are still slower. I might end up trying pyroclasm for the matchup even though it kills a handful of our creatures.
Other things I have been thinking about are cutting the finks for coursers. The Coursers have been outstanding and the finks have only been good versus burn and with domri. Issue with that is Restoration Angel gets worse if we cut finks. I might get to test more tonight and see if it is worth it. Also If I switch over to 4 Coursers pyroclasm becomes more appealing.
What is ajani for ? Do you really play the planewalker ?
I agree with you on finks. I have hesitated for a while, switching from courser to finks and vice-versa. But at the end of the day, courser seems to fit the bill better. I took the view - for now - that restoration angel is a fine card on its own and does not necessarily need to blink an other creature when played (other than one targeted by removal).