I’m a long time Bridgevine player who is disappointed that Wizards killed the archetype by printing Hogaak, The Arisen Necropolis. With all the money I’ve spent building this archetype in paper, I’m very afraid of my entire deck getting hosed when they ban Hogaak.
So I have been brainstorming hard on how to replace Hogaak and still play mostly the same creatures.
My replacement choice so far is Skaab Ruinator. It’s not nearly as good as Hogaak, and it requires UU to cast. This is certainly not ideal for Jund lists! However, there are also 4 color lists running Hedron Crab and some even run Prized Amalgam. This is the perfect shell for the deck.
Instead of splashing Blue for Hedron Crab. We splash Red for Faithless Looting and work on the mana base a bit.
Anyways here is my nerfed Bridgevine list. If you test this list, please let me know how it works out. I’m sure the deck will be a bit less explosive but still viable.
hi! you might get some idea with my pre-hogaak list: https://deckstats.net/decks/121773/1200683-dredgevine/en?revision=2.
the X-cmc creature element is still here to enable a faster vengevine trigger, the list is also capable of casting T2 Gurmag Angler and an explosive T2 with multiple vengevines + gurmag is a possiblity. the only missing element here is the evasion ability which hogaak has.
Wow thanks for the links.”! It’s very interesting to go back that many years and see that Skaab Ruinator was already a consideration. I checked out your list and it looks very well done. I like that you still agree with the 0 cmc stuff. I’ve held onto my Hangarbacks and Ballistas just in case the deck decides to keep playing them.
It’s quite a shame about Bridge from Below. It really seemed to help the 0 cmc stuff shine and added a more go wide strategy.
Have you looked into the Demon of Deaths Gate and Deaths Shadow package at all? Lazotep Reaver seems to be a must have in the deck as well if the demon becomes a thing.
hmmm, demon of death's gate looks interesting and i might try jam a few games with it on xmage and i'll surely include lazotep reaver in there. i really like lazotep reaver (you can see it in my latest dredgevine revision, though it's for budget purposes consideration for bloodghast) lazotep + token with cryptbreaker is enough to activate draw card, the token and lazotep itself can be fed to carrion feeder.
i've tried death's shadow before with mainboard thoughtseize and streetwraith to manipulate my lifepoints, my findings at that time is that i'm not progressing my plans as an aggro deck if i play thoughtseize at my early turns and i don't think it would be viable right now because modern is so much faster today: (mono red prowess / phoenix / dredge) and chalice for 1 and blastzone.
Turn 1 Stitcher Supplier mill 3 Vengevines xD. Turn 2 Lazotep Reaver. Sac 3 and play Demon of Deaths Gate to trigger Vengevines. That’s the nut draw id think.
Also, with the Deaths Shadow idea in the deck. I’d probably play 2-3 Claim//Fame so that you can use Shadow to trigger Vengevines early game...and then Claim them back into play later when your life is low enough to need them. Or for 3 mana you can Claim and Aftermath for some hastey giant Deaths Shadows.
Turn 1 Stitcher Supplier mill 3 Vengevines xD. Turn 2 Lazotep Reaver. Sac 3 and play Demon of Deaths Gate to trigger Vengevines. That’s the nut draw id think.
with that stitcher's mill then the nut would be a walking ballista for 0 to trigger vengevine T1
Hi I've built basically the deck you suggested here golgari zombies with demon of death's gate, I'd be happy to share my list, haven't even had the chancr to play it yet. I've been trying to figure out if this works though...
Turn one play stitchers supplier mill 0 vengevines
Turn 2 play lazotep reaver and amass 1
Next on turn 2 cast demon of death's gate sacrificing supplier lazotep reaver and the token
Second creature spell for turn is being cast and what if supplier mills a vengevine on its dies trigger I'm wondering does this vengvine see the demon and trigger to come back?
Second creature spell for turn is being cast and what if supplier mills a vengevine on its dies trigger I'm wondering does this vengvine see the demon and trigger to come back?
vengevine is a cast trigger so the new vengevine milled from supplier will not trigger because DDG is already been cast.
This is what made sense to me according to the rulings but I wasn't sure because technically vengvine would be in the graveyard as demon finishes resolving
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So I have been brainstorming hard on how to replace Hogaak and still play mostly the same creatures.
My replacement choice so far is Skaab Ruinator. It’s not nearly as good as Hogaak, and it requires UU to cast. This is certainly not ideal for Jund lists! However, there are also 4 color lists running Hedron Crab and some even run Prized Amalgam. This is the perfect shell for the deck.
Instead of splashing Blue for Hedron Crab. We splash Red for Faithless Looting and work on the mana base a bit.
Anyways here is my nerfed Bridgevine list. If you test this list, please let me know how it works out. I’m sure the deck will be a bit less explosive but still viable.
PostBan MillVine:
4 Bloodghast
3 Carrion Feeder
4 Gravecrawler
4 Hedron Crab
4 Prized Amalgam
4 Stitcher's Supplier
4 Vengevine
4 Skaab Ruinator
2 Insolent Neonate
2 Claim//Fame
2 Lightning Axe
4 Faithless Looting
1 Swamp
1 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Mana Confluence
1 Overgrown Tomb
4 Polluted Delta
1 Steam Vents
1 Verdant Catacombs
2 Watery Grave
the X-cmc creature element is still here to enable a faster vengevine trigger, the list is also capable of casting T2 Gurmag Angler and an explosive T2 with multiple vengevines + gurmag is a possiblity. the only missing element here is the evasion ability which hogaak has.
if you're interested you may also read the long history of dredgevine deck: https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/established-modern/aggro-tempo/648449-dredgevine. skaab ruinator was considered along time ago but it proves to be slow back then, not sure if the tools we have today can support it. the cards i'm looking to consider for a sultai build would be: birds of paradise / bazaar trademage.
It’s quite a shame about Bridge from Below. It really seemed to help the 0 cmc stuff shine and added a more go wide strategy.
Have you looked into the Demon of Deaths Gate and Deaths Shadow package at all? Lazotep Reaver seems to be a must have in the deck as well if the demon becomes a thing.
i've tried death's shadow before with mainboard thoughtseize and streetwraith to manipulate my lifepoints, my findings at that time is that i'm not progressing my plans as an aggro deck if i play thoughtseize at my early turns and i don't think it would be viable right now because modern is so much faster today: (mono red prowess / phoenix / dredge) and chalice for 1 and blastzone.
Edit: here's my decklist from back then when i tried death's shadow: https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/established-modern/aggro-tempo/648449-dredgevine?page=70#c2051
Also, with the Deaths Shadow idea in the deck. I’d probably play 2-3 Claim//Fame so that you can use Shadow to trigger Vengevines early game...and then Claim them back into play later when your life is low enough to need them. Or for 3 mana you can Claim and Aftermath for some hastey giant Deaths Shadows.
4 Gravecrawler
4 Carrion Feeder
4 Stitcher's Supplier
4 Bloodghast
4 Vengevine
4 Golgari Thug
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Demon of Death's Gate
4 Glowspore Shaman
1 Pit Keeper
1 Lazotep Reaver
3 Unearth
Lands
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bloodstained mire
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood crypt
2 Swamp
3 Thoughtseize
3 Assassin's Trophy
2 Rotting Regisaur
2 Darkblast
3 Collective Brutality
2 Shenanigans
DDG does a decent Hogaak impression if we draw it. Not quite as frequent to cast on turn 2 but it can be cast pretty often on turn 3
Draft My Cube!
Turn one play stitchers supplier mill 0 vengevines
Turn 2 play lazotep reaver and amass 1
Next on turn 2 cast demon of death's gate sacrificing supplier lazotep reaver and the token
Second creature spell for turn is being cast and what if supplier mills a vengevine on its dies trigger I'm wondering does this vengvine see the demon and trigger to come back?
vengevine is a cast trigger so the new vengevine milled from supplier will not trigger because DDG is already been cast.