I was thinking, why are we not considering disciple of the vault here? Since the goal is to just get a million artifacts in play, you get auto 20 life lost with disciple. I mean maybe it's win more, but I can't imagine running a 1-2 copies of it in the main would hurt much once you start going off.
Disciple of the Vault is pretty win-more. Unlike Children of Korlis, it cannot gain you enough life to keep comboing off if you only find it late in the combo turn, and if you play it early, it immediately dies to removal as often as Children of Korlis does. It can't even Fog removal-light decks, unlike Children of Korlis. Fizzle with a Disciple and you haven't gained life (unlike fizzling with Aetherflux Reservoir or Children), so your opponent can often kill you before your next turn, unlike with Aetherflux/Children. The deck already wins with Aetherflux or Faith's Reward into Bolas's Citadel mass sacrificing; it doesn't need an additional win con. Even Aetherflux builds can win with Citadel cracks.
Just pointing out that some have said how hard the bbb casting cost is. So wanted to point out that Urborg can be used to ease this.
Also depending on how the deck is built. Things like Pentad Prism, Lotus Bloom and other various color filters help get BBB.
On another note, for people who are testing out their decks: What turn is your deck able to usually combo off and win? For me its turn 4 most of the time, sometimes later and sometimes earlier though. Also, how are people approaching their sideboards? I'm still a bit unsure if I'm utilizing mine properly, so I'm asking around for ideas
I find that Citadel Eggs tends to combo off on Turn 3-4 (maybe Turn 3.5), while my Citadel Dodge Yard Hate deck combos off closer to Turn 4.5 (with some Turn 3 wins and plenty of Turn 4 wins). Prudent use of life gain often means that Turn 4.5 is good enough against aggro, though.
As for the Urborg, ToY suggestion, it's actually a decent one, as it mana fixes (including for Pentad Prism) and lets you pay life to your fetchlands later and less often. I'm still experimenting with Blast Zone in the land flex slot to see how often it is anti-hate, though, and it cannot pay for Reshape for Lotus Bloom.
sorry but explain to me why you can't play both? or even all three? multiple win conditions that play well together anyways seems to be the plan no? I'm not advocating for 4 of them, just the 1 of.
I suspect someone is a fan of Pyrite Spellbomb in Citadel Eggs, but Citadel Eggs needs as many slots as possible to synergize with Faith's Reward (I think we've yet to find a Citadel Eggs build that plays Scrap Trawler instead without losing all consistency). Citadel Eggs can play stuff like Serum Visions and Whir of Invention, but yeah, it needs a lot of cantrips and tutors (often cantrip rocks). Aetherflux Reservoir is a 4-mana brick if you start the combo with Faith's Reward instead of Bolas's Citadel, so no, it cannot fit in Citadel Eggs. Citadel Eggs's main source of life gain is Sunbeam Spellbomb instead.
As for my Citadel Dodge Yard Hate deck, Aetherflux Reservoir there is both massive mid-combo life gain and a win con. I need my other nonland slots there to be cantrips (often life gain cantrips), tutors, fast mana, or life gain, so I have no room for additional win cons. I suppose there's stuff like Jace, Wielder of Mysteries that are cantrip win cons, but sheesh, he's so expensive to cast. The Dragonlord Dromoka in my sideboard is meant to be an alt win con that dodges Unmoored Ego and anti-Storm cards, yet synergizes with the combo plan.
The Bolas's Citadel crack plan is already shaky in my Citadel Dodge Yard Hate deck; Ghirapur Aether Grid would be an even shakier plan (although it synergizes with cracking Citadels) because the deck doesn't play that many artifacts and wants to tap several of them with their own abilities. This is the kind of obstacle that additional win cons must face: even if they have utility outside the combo, they don't help me dig for it or sustain it by adding life.
Pyrite Spellbomb is here both as an additional Win-Con as well as a way to get rid of potential annoyances, specifically Thalia, Guardian of Thraben. While I guess Engineered Explosives can deal with Thalia, I’m not sure it’s my preferred method. Spellbomb can also be fetched out while the EE cannot.
While I agree that the Citadel Eggs deck does need a lot of Cantriping Eggs to be able to go off, I’m not sure if as many slots are needed as you might be implying. During the combo I’m able to just draw some of the Recursion effects mid-combo so I can use them later where I’d otherwise fizzle, which makes comboing much easier. If it weren’t for the Graveyard Focused Meta that we’re in I’d think that the Pyrite and EE are all the interactions I’d need without drastically affecting the combo, but mainboard RIP and Nihil Spellbomb are proving difficult to verse. Not sure if now is the time to play this deck if I’m being honest. The deck works, but not comfortably in this Meta.
The Scrap Trawler idea is an interesting one, not one I’ve seen anyone test out but I reckon it’s possible. Might need to chat with some people and see if it can replicate some of the KCI interaction.
I just came across this topic and I read every post about 3 times now. I am a long time lantern player and brewer with thopter sword. Also I have had a lot of succes with sly sword grinding station decks, but I would love to play something more 'actual storm' - like. This certainly tingles my fancy.
My guess would be that graveyard based might still be strong as long as you are playing a solid sideboard with Sai and Leyline (Leyline shuts down most of the GY hate, except ofcourse surgical and rip).
I also think that playing 1 Reservoir is important and a way to not go over the graveyard. For one, you can work around maindeck grave hate. It's not easy but it's possible, also not many decks do play dedicated GY hate, so maindeck you most likely will be able to combo just fine. Secondly, you need something besides citadel. It is just an Artifact, and decks will more often than GY hate have permanent removal for it. Third: eggs can manipulate the top of your deck at will, which makes citadel basicly unable to brick on 2 lands
I feel this would be the list I'd be playing when looking at everyone's findings.
Maybe this landbase is too much depending on lotus bloom to pay for citadel. Maybe there are more black sources required. In that case I think 1 watery grave 1 swamp and 2 Darkslick Shores are probably best.
I have not tested this list yet, and am eager to feel the power of Sunbeam and noxious revival.
My sideboard would be something like this:
4 Leyline of sanctity
3 Sai (I think the draw is more important than Saheeli -2)
4 Fragmentize
2 Silence
2 something probably creature removal, Tiny Tef, or maybe welding jar
I think you cannot play this deck without the full set of Leylines the protect you from almost everything that would undermine the combo
I'm thinking about giving this deck a spin at the biggest tournament organized in the Netherlands by local TO's. (200+ people). So are there any recent developments? I would love to hear more!!
I just came across this topic and I read every post about 3 times now. I am a long time lantern player and brewer with thopter sword. Also I have had a lot of succes with sly sword grinding station decks, but I would love to play something more 'actual storm' - like. This certainly tingles my fancy.
My guess would be that graveyard based might still be strong as long as you are playing a solid sideboard with Sai and Leyline (Leyline shuts down most of the GY hate, except ofcourse surgical and rip).
I also think that playing 1 Reservoir is important and a way to not go over the graveyard. For one, you can work around maindeck grave hate. It's not easy but it's possible, also not many decks do play dedicated GY hate, so maindeck you most likely will be able to combo just fine. Secondly, you need something besides citadel. It is just an Artifact, and decks will more often than GY hate have permanent removal for it. Third: eggs can manipulate the top of your deck at will, which makes citadel basicly unable to brick on 2 lands
I feel this would be the list I'd be playing when looking at everyone's findings.
Maybe this landbase is too much depending on lotus bloom to pay for citadel. Maybe there are more black sources required. In that case I think 1 watery grave 1 swamp and 2 Darkslick Shores are probably best.
I have not tested this list yet, and am eager to feel the power of Sunbeam and noxious revival.
My sideboard would be something like this:
4 Leyline of sanctity
3 Sai (I think the draw is more important than Saheeli -2)
4 Fragmentize
2 Silence
2 something probably creature removal, Tiny Tef, or maybe welding jar
I think you cannot play this deck without the full set of Leylines the protect you from almost everything that would undermine the combo
I'm thinking about giving this deck a spin at the biggest tournament organized in the Netherlands by local TO's. (200+ people). So are there any recent developments? I would love to hear more!!
Thanx and love,
Selene
I really think you need more maindeck life gain in your Citadel Eggs build than the 1 lone Aetherflux Reservoir. I'd take out Whir/worse cantrip rocks for the Sunbeam Spellbombs you brought up. I don't think you'll hit Aetherflux or a way to tutor for it and enough mana for the tutor fast enough without getting into Bolt range.
You make a valid point. Maybe it's wise to take out 2 whir and maybe 1 Bauble for 3 Sunbeam. I wouldn't play 4 I think, they are pretty bad without citadel. T
You make a valid point. Maybe it's wise to take out 2 whir and maybe 1 Bauble for 3 Sunbeam. I wouldn't play 4 I think, they are pretty bad without citadel. T
Thanx for bringing this up
Sunbeam Spellbomb is fine without Bolas's Citadel. On the Faith's Reward plan, cracking them for cards has often been good enough. (They're essential in Dodge Yard Hate builds as delayed cantrips that can gain life. In fact, in my Dodge Yard Hate build, I crack them for cards at least 3/4's of the time, often to prevent my combo turn from bricking.)
So I tested the list against UW and a home brew dredge deck yesterday, testing Goblin Engineer.
Engineer is amazing in the deck, but still doesn't make the deck very good
It was amazing to play goblin T2 and then T3 Trash into citadel. Also with the goblins you have a few more shuffle effects for when you hit land.
I liked it but still the list is super vulnerable to counters and misses the consistency to go off turn 3 all the time.
I find that my Bolas's Citadel Dodge Yard Hate deck is more resilient to counterspells. Even if my first Citadel gets Remanded and I lose my mana ramp rocks to it, my deck is generally consistent enough to reach a point where it can cast Citadel again. I've noticed that my deck can race Remand-using blue-based combo decks.
The deck has a big big problem against dovins en cryptic. If you don't win before turn 4 it's often 3 turns later at which point UW control has at least drawn a new counterspell. The MU is really not great.
I think the dodge yard list is a lot slower and less consistent in getting a citadel on the board. I would not see GY hate as a problem, but more: do I get to go off before I am dead, before my opponent can play interaction.
The deck has a big big problem against dovins en cryptic. If you don't win before turn 4 it's often 3 turns later at which point UW control has at least drawn a new counterspell. The MU is really not great.
I think the dodge yard list is a lot slower and less consistent in getting a citadel on the board. I would not see GY hate as a problem, but more: do I get to go off before I am dead, before my opponent can play interaction.
In that respect, my Dodge Yard Hate build is indeed not likely to pierce through Uxy Control's counter wall as long as the first Citadel is countered. I'm not completely convinced any other build wins much more often against Uxy Control, though--the Eggs builds combo off on Turn 3 more often, but countering Faith's Reward is quite punishing, and countering Reshape also bites.
The deck works without gaining a thousand life though. And the artifact sources of life work fine.
I could see this as a SB card VS aggro decks, unless the meta becomes full aggro and we need this main deck.
Now if a version manages to make use of it, I won't complain. It might be a better Aetherflux in the right shell !
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
Goblin Engineer is basically THE card this deck wanted. If we can't make this happen with this card, the deck will simply never happen. This allows you to trim down on copies of citadel so that it's less likely to be a dead draw (plus 6 life when going off). Additionally, it allows to trim down on pieces that try to make the whole thing all in. You can play a game that's a bit more grindy with a combo potential.
Goblin Engineer is basically THE card this deck wanted. If we can't make this happen with this card, the deck will simply never happen. This allows you to trim down on copies of citadel so that it's less likely to be a dead draw (plus 6 life when going off). Additionally, it allows to trim down on pieces that try to make the whole thing all in. You can play a game that's a bit more grindy with a combo potential.
Goblin Engineer is basically THE card this deck wanted. If we can't make this happen with this card, the deck will simply never happen. This allows you to trim down on copies of citadel so that it's less likely to be a dead draw (plus 6 life when going off). Additionally, it allows to trim down on pieces that try to make the whole thing all in. You can play a game that's a bit more grindy with a combo potential.
yes correct. the ability to play a grindy game ia better than an all in combo only imo. it adds versatility to a deck that is just a surgical extraction away from doing nothing. i feel like this little guy will play a big role. don't forget you can dunk a bloom and bring it back for little investment.
Goblin Engineer is basically THE card this deck wanted. If we can't make this happen with this card, the deck will simply never happen. This allows you to trim down on copies of citadel so that it's less likely to be a dead draw (plus 6 life when going off). Additionally, it allows to trim down on pieces that try to make the whole thing all in. You can play a game that's a bit more grindy with a combo potential.
yes correct. the ability to play a grindy game ia better than an all in combo only imo. it adds versatility to a deck that is just a surgical extraction away from doing nothing. i feel like this little guy will play a big role. don't forget you can dunk a bloom and bring it back for little investment.
But can we play a grindy deck with Bolas's Citadel instead of Experimental Frenzy or Future Sight? Costing 2 more mana than the cheapest alternative feels quite ugly and pushes me towards trying to make sure Citadel grants me the biggest CA edge possible...which often means combo decks.
I tried Experimental Frenzy Jund with decent results (and Frenzy in Affinity with good results before it went mainstream), so I know grindy decks with these kinds of permanents are possible. I'm just skeptical that Citadel is better than Frenzy/Future Sight in grindy decks.
Goblin Engineer is basically THE card this deck wanted. If we can't make this happen with this card, the deck will simply never happen. This allows you to trim down on copies of citadel so that it's less likely to be a dead draw (plus 6 life when going off). Additionally, it allows to trim down on pieces that try to make the whole thing all in. You can play a game that's a bit more grindy with a combo potential.
yes correct. the ability to play a grindy game ia better than an all in combo only imo. it adds versatility to a deck that is just a surgical extraction away from doing nothing. i feel like this little guy will play a big role. don't forget you can dunk a bloom and bring it back for little investment.
But can we play a grindy deck with Bolas's Citadel instead of Experimental Frenzy or Future Sight? Costing 2 more mana than the cheapest alternative feels quite ugly and pushes me towards trying to make sure Citadel grants me the biggest CA edge possible...which often means combo decks.
I tried Experimental Frenzy Jund with decent results (and Frenzy in Affinity with good results before it went mainstream), so I know grindy decks with these kinds of permanents are possible. I'm just skeptical that Citadel is better than Frenzy/Future Sight in grindy decks.
I made this comment prior to knowing that future sight was spoiled. Frankly, going the grindy route makes more sense with future sight. This is a very strong card and would be very tempted to build something around it. But ya, it wouldn't be combo based like the citadel is. But i think it would have more even matchups than the citadel ever could.
None the less, I still feel like the Goblin is what will put citadel on the map if the deck is ever to amount to anything.
Here I thought there would be discussion of mirrodin besieged as a win-con and artifact producer. Both its modes can be used depending on the board.
I think there are more than enough win conditions now, maybe too many! I think the deck only needs 2 (and the second one is a back up). Although that card definitely does a good impression of Sai!
I think there's potential for a Paradoxical Outcome list with cards like these.
And I thought I was a good mtg builder. I have a sulti verson using chief engineer and ornithopter and mox opal to get it out faster. And the combo is aetherflux reservoir and vissara seer and Nissan chosen
How are we on this with Scheming Symmetry? Does this provide more consistency?
Putting a card from your deck on top of our library to immediately cast with Bolas's Citadel? Absolutely playable. Helping us find the pieces to combo off while also being amazing mid-combo has got me very high on this card. I'm already thinking of using 4x, but that might be too many.
How are we on this with Scheming Symmetry? Does this provide more consistency?
Putting a card from your deck on top of our library to immediately cast with Bolas's Citadel? Absolutely playable. Helping us find the pieces to combo off while also being amazing mid-combo has got me very high on this card. I'm already thinking of using 4x, but that might be too many.
I'm not a fan of Scheming Symmetry. Unless you're (somehow) on the Codex Shredder plan (which I hate because mill tap rocks can't cantrip through your deck), you cannot prevent your opponent from drawing into the hate or OHKO threat s/he no doubt tutored for unless you kill them the turn you resolve Scheming Symmetry. This means that Scheming Symmetry blows pre-combo, and I'd rather stick with Fabricate because it tutors for Bolas's Citadel pre-combo or Mox Opal/a cantrip rock mid-combo.
I don't think Teferi, Time Raveler changes the Scheming Symmetry dynamics enough. If you tutor for him, your opponent can easily decide to tutor for permanent-based hate or targeted discard instead, even if they don't know you run Cheap Teferi. Bounce the hate permanent and you'd better be able to combo off that turn, and even then, he cannot bounce Narset, Parter of Veils, so your combo turns are going to brick early in that case. I only run 1 of him, so that's not enough to consistently play Scheming Symmetry at the end of my opponent's turn.
Well, there is the thing that both players don't know what the other tutors. The card is never shown to the other, so there is that.
I think the card is really good because it let's you both 'redraw' on a brick on top and you don't need to play too many win cons. Yes it's not great pre combo, but I still think it is good enough with so many drawspells.
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2x Bolas's Citadel
3x Chromatic Sphere
4x Chromatic Star
4x Conjurer's Bauble
2x Engineered Explosives
4x Lotus Bloom
1x Pyrite Spellbomb
2x Sunbeam Spellbomb
4x Whir of Invention
2x Flooded Strand
2x Ghost Quarter
2x Hallowed Fountain
9x Island
1x Polluted Delta
1x Steam Vents
2x Reshape
4x Serum Visions
4x Sleight of Hand
Pyrite Spellbomb is here both as an additional Win-Con as well as a way to get rid of potential annoyances, specifically Thalia, Guardian of Thraben. While I guess Engineered Explosives can deal with Thalia, I’m not sure it’s my preferred method. Spellbomb can also be fetched out while the EE cannot.
While I agree that the Citadel Eggs deck does need a lot of Cantriping Eggs to be able to go off, I’m not sure if as many slots are needed as you might be implying. During the combo I’m able to just draw some of the Recursion effects mid-combo so I can use them later where I’d otherwise fizzle, which makes comboing much easier. If it weren’t for the Graveyard Focused Meta that we’re in I’d think that the Pyrite and EE are all the interactions I’d need without drastically affecting the combo, but mainboard RIP and Nihil Spellbomb are proving difficult to verse. Not sure if now is the time to play this deck if I’m being honest. The deck works, but not comfortably in this Meta.
The Scrap Trawler idea is an interesting one, not one I’ve seen anyone test out but I reckon it’s possible. Might need to chat with some people and see if it can replicate some of the KCI interaction.
I just came across this topic and I read every post about 3 times now. I am a long time lantern player and brewer with thopter sword. Also I have had a lot of succes with sly sword grinding station decks, but I would love to play something more 'actual storm' - like. This certainly tingles my fancy.
My guess would be that graveyard based might still be strong as long as you are playing a solid sideboard with Sai and Leyline (Leyline shuts down most of the GY hate, except ofcourse surgical and rip).
I also think that playing 1 Reservoir is important and a way to not go over the graveyard. For one, you can work around maindeck grave hate. It's not easy but it's possible, also not many decks do play dedicated GY hate, so maindeck you most likely will be able to combo just fine. Secondly, you need something besides citadel. It is just an Artifact, and decks will more often than GY hate have permanent removal for it. Third: eggs can manipulate the top of your deck at will, which makes citadel basicly unable to brick on 2 lands
I feel this would be the list I'd be playing when looking at everyone's findings.
4 Lotus bloom
2/4 Mishra's bauble/ 2 welding jar
4 Mox opal
4 chromatic star
4 chromatic sphere
4 Conjurer's bauble
4 serum visions
4 Reshape
2 whir of invention
4 Faith's Reward
4 Bolas's citadel
1 Pyrite spellbomb
1 Aetherglux reservoir
44
4 seachrome coast
4 flooded strand
1 hallowed fountain
2 ghost quarter
1 plains
5 island
16
Maybe this landbase is too much depending on lotus bloom to pay for citadel. Maybe there are more black sources required. In that case I think 1 watery grave 1 swamp and 2 Darkslick Shores are probably best.
I have not tested this list yet, and am eager to feel the power of Sunbeam and noxious revival.
My sideboard would be something like this:
4 Leyline of sanctity
3 Sai (I think the draw is more important than Saheeli -2)
4 Fragmentize
2 Silence
2 something probably creature removal, Tiny Tef, or maybe welding jar
I think you cannot play this deck without the full set of Leylines the protect you from almost everything that would undermine the combo
I'm thinking about giving this deck a spin at the biggest tournament organized in the Netherlands by local TO's. (200+ people). So are there any recent developments? I would love to hear more!!
Thanx and love,
Selene
I really think you need more maindeck life gain in your Citadel Eggs build than the 1 lone Aetherflux Reservoir. I'd take out Whir/worse cantrip rocks for the Sunbeam Spellbombs you brought up. I don't think you'll hit Aetherflux or a way to tutor for it and enough mana for the tutor fast enough without getting into Bolt range.
Thanx for bringing this up
Sunbeam Spellbomb is fine without Bolas's Citadel. On the Faith's Reward plan, cracking them for cards has often been good enough. (They're essential in Dodge Yard Hate builds as delayed cantrips that can gain life. In fact, in my Dodge Yard Hate build, I crack them for cards at least 3/4's of the time, often to prevent my combo turn from bricking.)
If we look back to the Trash for Treasure list. This might make that list much more stable, will it not? What do you guys think?
Engineer is amazing in the deck, but still doesn't make the deck very good
It was amazing to play goblin T2 and then T3 Trash into citadel. Also with the goblins you have a few more shuffle effects for when you hit land.
I liked it but still the list is super vulnerable to counters and misses the consistency to go off turn 3 all the time.
I find that my Bolas's Citadel Dodge Yard Hate deck is more resilient to counterspells. Even if my first Citadel gets Remanded and I lose my mana ramp rocks to it, my deck is generally consistent enough to reach a point where it can cast Citadel again. I've noticed that my deck can race Remand-using blue-based combo decks.
I think the dodge yard list is a lot slower and less consistent in getting a citadel on the board. I would not see GY hate as a problem, but more: do I get to go off before I am dead, before my opponent can play interaction.
In that respect, my Dodge Yard Hate build is indeed not likely to pierce through Uxy Control's counter wall as long as the first Citadel is countered. I'm not completely convinced any other build wins much more often against Uxy Control, though--the Eggs builds combo off on Turn 3 more often, but countering Faith's Reward is quite punishing, and countering Reshape also bites.
The new green common really gives legs to this deck now...
1G
Instant
Gain 3 life
Storm
This could very easily shoot you way back up. Removes the need for something like children of korlis too. Now to fit green cards...
I could see this as a SB card VS aggro decks, unless the meta becomes full aggro and we need this main deck.
Now if a version manages to make use of it, I won't complain. It might be a better Aetherflux in the right shell !
Goblin Engineer is basically THE card this deck wanted. If we can't make this happen with this card, the deck will simply never happen. This allows you to trim down on copies of citadel so that it's less likely to be a dead draw (plus 6 life when going off). Additionally, it allows to trim down on pieces that try to make the whole thing all in. You can play a game that's a bit more grindy with a combo potential.
Goblin Engineer only reanimates artifacts with cmc 3 or less, though. Comboing it with Trash for Treasure to cheat in Bolas's Citadel is a fine strategy, but doesn't that require 3 cards?
yes correct. the ability to play a grindy game ia better than an all in combo only imo. it adds versatility to a deck that is just a surgical extraction away from doing nothing. i feel like this little guy will play a big role. don't forget you can dunk a bloom and bring it back for little investment.
But can we play a grindy deck with Bolas's Citadel instead of Experimental Frenzy or Future Sight? Costing 2 more mana than the cheapest alternative feels quite ugly and pushes me towards trying to make sure Citadel grants me the biggest CA edge possible...which often means combo decks.
I tried Experimental Frenzy Jund with decent results (and Frenzy in Affinity with good results before it went mainstream), so I know grindy decks with these kinds of permanents are possible. I'm just skeptical that Citadel is better than Frenzy/Future Sight in grindy decks.
I made this comment prior to knowing that future sight was spoiled. Frankly, going the grindy route makes more sense with future sight. This is a very strong card and would be very tempted to build something around it. But ya, it wouldn't be combo based like the citadel is. But i think it would have more even matchups than the citadel ever could.
None the less, I still feel like the Goblin is what will put citadel on the map if the deck is ever to amount to anything.
I think there are more than enough win conditions now, maybe too many! I think the deck only needs 2 (and the second one is a back up). Although that card definitely does a good impression of Sai!
I think there's potential for a Paradoxical Outcome list with cards like these.
Putting a card from your deck on top of our library to immediately cast with Bolas's Citadel? Absolutely playable. Helping us find the pieces to combo off while also being amazing mid-combo has got me very high on this card. I'm already thinking of using 4x, but that might be too many.
I'm not a fan of Scheming Symmetry. Unless you're (somehow) on the Codex Shredder plan (which I hate because mill tap rocks can't cantrip through your deck), you cannot prevent your opponent from drawing into the hate or OHKO threat s/he no doubt tutored for unless you kill them the turn you resolve Scheming Symmetry. This means that Scheming Symmetry blows pre-combo, and I'd rather stick with Fabricate because it tutors for Bolas's Citadel pre-combo or Mox Opal/a cantrip rock mid-combo.
I don't think Teferi, Time Raveler changes the Scheming Symmetry dynamics enough. If you tutor for him, your opponent can easily decide to tutor for permanent-based hate or targeted discard instead, even if they don't know you run Cheap Teferi. Bounce the hate permanent and you'd better be able to combo off that turn, and even then, he cannot bounce Narset, Parter of Veils, so your combo turns are going to brick early in that case. I only run 1 of him, so that's not enough to consistently play Scheming Symmetry at the end of my opponent's turn.
I think the card is really good because it let's you both 'redraw' on a brick on top and you don't need to play too many win cons. Yes it's not great pre combo, but I still think it is good enough with so many drawspells.