Play T3 Jace or Cryptic off of Growth Spiral. If you draw into a Terminus off of a Spiral during their turn, you can cast it with the land you put into play. This means that, as long as you have a W producing land in hand, you can play a T2 Terminus off of Spiral.
You also get access to Wilderness Reclamation, which is nice with Think Twice and Azcanta but also just lets us tap out for walkers. It also lets you swing with Colonnades and then untap at eot to interact.
Not sure how the mana could be made to facilitate it, but in a list with zero creatures, the hexproof on lumbering falls is very appealing. And if you ever branch out to include snapcaster mage, you could consider Pulse of Murasa; it would shine bright in a deck with Field of Ruin, Creature Lands and Snapcaster mages, especially since lifegain is an effect that UWx are always wanting for.
I believe this could be good enough for Modern for sure, Wilderness Reclamation is NUTS, and powering it out with Growth Spiral is just gross in Standard.
EDIT: Oh no Nexus? I'd look at if you can put that into the list.
well i'm keeping this tab open. i started with a UW shell and put growth spiral in and adjusted the mana base after seeing someone post about it on the UW control facebook page. i'm really liking growth spiral in this list. and i could see lumbering falls possibly as a 1-of in the deck. maybe 3/1 split with colonnade.
i definitely want to try out wilderness reclamation
I realize you can play lands much faster with growth spiral, but 26 seems a bit high. For what it's worth I'm of the opinion to cut a land and maybe a Think Twice for one or two more planeswalkers that provide more pressure/clock to an opponent, and defend if necessary. Taking advantage of Wilderness Reclamation, you can now tap out more safely for bigger planeswalkers that can attack or provide a stream of creatures. I'm thinking Gideon Jura; Gideon, Ally of Zendikar; or maybe Elspeth, Sun's Champion as a one-of. Of course, your Search for Ass Cancer can help to find them, and they won't be affected by Terminus.
Not sure how the mana could be made to facilitate it, but in a list with zero creatures, the hexproof on lumbering falls is very appealing. And if you ever branch out to include snapcaster mage, you could consider Pulse of Murasa; it would shine bright in a deck with Field of Ruin, Creature Lands and Snapcaster mages, especially since lifegain is an effect that UWx are always wanting for.
I like the idea, and man do I LOVE incidental lifegain. I definitely forgot about Pulse. I wanted to play a Snapcaster or two, but there's just no targets for him other than Path really. You'd need 4 mana to Snap a Growth Spiral, and it's not a super high-value play anyways. As a side note, you can use Pulse of Murasa it to counter your opponent's Goryo's Vengeance or Prized Amalgam trigger.
I believe this could be good enough for Modern for sure, Wilderness Reclamation is NUTS, and powering it out with Growth Spiral is just gross in Standard.
EDIT: Oh no Nexus? I'd look at if you can put that into the list.
Is Nexus really necessary? I mean, I feel like JtMS puts the game away a LOT faster, considering you see so many cards a turn with WR out and Spirals/Think Twices.
well i'm keeping this tab open. i started with a UW shell and put growth spiral in and adjusted the mana base after seeing someone post about it on the UW control facebook page. i'm really liking growth spiral in this list. and i could see lumbering falls possibly as a 1-of in the deck. maybe 3/1 split with colonnade.
i definitely want to try out wilderness reclamation
For sure, I'm thinking a 3/1 split makes sense, but I'm loving the evasion on Colonnade. You can't swing in a Falls vs. a Goyf or Hollow One or a big Shadow, for example.
Anyways, maybe I'm weird, but the moment Growth Spiral was spoiled I knew it would be my favorite card in the set. I'm pretty sure I did an irl fist pump when I saw it. WR was a latecomer to the deck, but it's been simultaneously great and super picky -- you have to have things to do with the mana, hence why I decided to play a set of Think Twice.
I realize you can play lands much faster with growth spiral, but 26 seems a bit high. For what it's worth I'm of the opinion to cut a land and maybe a Think Twice for one or two more planeswalkers that provide more pressure/clock to an opponent, and defend if necessary. Taking advantage of Wilderness Reclamation, you can now tap out more safely for bigger planeswalkers that can attack or provide a stream of creatures. I'm thinking Gideon Jura; Gideon, Ally of Zendikar; or maybe Elspeth, Sun's Champion as a one-of. Of course, your Search for Ass Cancer can help to find them, and they won't be affected by Terminus.
The main reason I'm playing 26 lands is to make certain I have one in hand (or draw one) to put into play with Growth Spiral. Otherwise it just cycles. I've tested a bit with 25 lands, and it seems fine. You do really wanna hit lands until 4 and windmill slam a WR on turn 3/4 (depending on whether or not you have a Growth Spiral). As for another planeswalker, I have a soft spot for Gideon Ally, so I could see playing one. I wouldn't cut Think Twice though -- it's super important for making WR good at what it does. I messed around with Hieroglyphic Illumination and Glimmer of Genius as well, but cycling illumination means you won't get a 2nd card from it later, and Glimmer can't be cast early at all.
If you're going to play Reclamation, Nexus would be very powerful. Being able to cast a 3 mana spell and still cast Nexus of fate on 5 land (hopefully earlier than turn 5 via Spiral). But again, that is getting fancy and building around Reclamation, which I don't think is necessary. Reclamation is still odd to me in a deck that isn't playing any proactive instant speed spells. I mean, I get that you can resolve a planeswalker and then protect it, but Teferi already does that and having to resolve a 4 mana spell before resolving my other 4 and 5 mana spells when you only run 8 cards that can utilize that found mana to impact the board seems suspect at best. Seems to me like the times where it Reclamation is going to be good, you probably would have been fine with it being any other reactive spell, and the times when it will be bad you will wish it was any other reactive spell. But, that's just speculation.
I did play some games with a similar list, sans Reclamation/Azcanta and with 4x spiral and 1x pulse being my only green cards, and it felt pretty good. I was especially surprised with how well Spiral plays out in UWx mirrors and control generally - being able to take the play from them at instant speed without being down on cards puts a beating on them. Handily beat Jeskai control and HS affinity as well as a bunch of brews in the tourney practice room. Lost to mono u tron, unsurprisingly, but it felt waaaay closer than when i play UW control - ramping with spiral can actually put you ahead on mana for awhile if you find Field of Ruin, and that makes a huge difference if you can cast a walker and hold up a couple pieces of countermagic.
I really feel like this deck has legs. I'll get around to testing Reclamation eventually I suppose, but im having too much fun in the meantime. Heres what I ran. Mana and sideboard needs work.
Might be too many non-fetchland green sources because it really doesn't matter if we get taken off them permanently in the late game. Probably should just be like +2 misty rainforest, -1 breeding pool, -1 hinterland.. I could even see going down to 2 colonnade in a list like this, its not a win condition of choice, and taplands really hurt when you're trying to press a mana advantage like growth spiral allows you to.
i was thinking nissa vital force as another option for the main. maybe a 2/2/1 split on planeswalkers. gives you a 5/5 beater to go with your colonnnades. returns a jace or teferi or snapcaster or colonnade to your hand. even the ultimate the next turn is good at drawing you cards, especially with a teferi emblem out. it's something to think about at least.
i do like gideon too but i feel if you're running green, then you should consider green walkers.
i was also thinking of having either tireless trackers or tarmogoyfs in the side. trackers seem decent.
EDIT: Also - knight of autumn. does a lot that we want: life, body for beater, artifact/enchantment hate. can be bounced back to do it again with CC
There's something intriguing about this idea. Search for Azcanta is the ideal card with Wilderness Reclamation, a card that could be worth looking at also is Warrant // Warden. And if you're playing that, well Torrential Gearhulk seems like a great inclusion since you can flash it in and immediately make a 4/4 Sphinx to go along with it. This is a very rough first draft.
Wilderness Reclamation seems to lend itself really well to mana sinks like Sphinx's Revelation and finishers like Secure the Wastes so I'd consider them for the deck.
3x copies of the enchantment seems excessive so I'd play 2x max and maybe even just one with more cantrips to reliably find it as it is a late game card anyway.
Think Twice doesn't seem good enough imho and I'd prefer Opt instead for mana-efficiency (which is important before landing a Wilderness Reclamation).
I'd also rather play Remand as a cantrip that slows down the opponent.
For removal I'd consider Settle the Wreckage, maybe over Terminus to have a more reliable (and instant speed) sweeper option at a reasonable mana cost.
I only lost 2 games - Game 1 agaisnt BW taxes and G1 against KCI. Disrupting shoal was a house in the KCI match - you can tap out for Jace if you have another jace, a cryptic or an illumination in hand and its just GG.
BW Taxes felt close, I think I got lucky because both Growth and Shoal felt absolutely awful in that matchup.
Shift felt close as well, but I was able to keep him off 6 mana long enough with a combination of conditional countermagic on ramp spells and a clutch shoal on a lightning bolt the turn I tapped out for Jace.
GB Rock felt about even, nothing remarkable there and I absolutely smashed Jeskai just like the other time I played against it before updating the mana.
Agreed with the mana sink in conjunction with Wilderness Reclamation. If you have a one-of mana sink, you may also want to consider White Sun's Zenith. With Reclamation, you only need two sources of white to cast it, and it will produce more value with double your mana available than Secure in the mid/late game. Of course, it depends on how willing you are to tap out for it at the end of your turn for that sweet double-mana.
Effects like Azcanta are much better Mana sinks with reclamation than X spells since it doesn't require you to use the Mana directly on your own end step - you get (X)2-CMC but at the cost of then being tapped out on their turn. Azcanta allows you to activate, untap and then decide if you want to react or activate again.
It's a toss up though, because as I pointed out before the enchantment side of Azcanta being sorcery speed is awkward in a deck that wants to untap and play reactively - and if your flipped Azcanta goes uncontested, you're winning regardless of whether you have reclamation out or not. So X spells might be better, token generators are especially nice since they can be used to protect a walker you just played.
Something else to consider, is having a sideboard plan where you side out all your enchantments. If you resolve Wilderness Reclamation you're probably a huge favorite and your opponent will likely side in enchantment hate (though cindervine is still strong without the activated ability).
I also think with growth spiral you want a high number of lands. It's possible that playing 1-2 more lands and 1-2 more interactive spells is better than fewer lands and more cantrips.
I also think with growth spiral you want a high number of lands. It's possible that playing 1-2 more lands and 1-2 more interactive spells is better than fewer lands and more cantrips.
I started at 25 land assuming that I would need a 26th for reasons like you've mentioned, but I quickly realized that with the additional cantrips you're already in line to find your lands more often and I came to the exact opposite conclusion - I've even half-jokingly titled the file where I keep my data on the deck as "Bant Xerox Control". Even now on 23 lands with 8 fetches and 2 Field of ruin, I'm finding myself flooded very often. I know it's very counter-intuitive, but I think I'm pretty objective on this one - I still run 26 land in my UW control decks unless im on 7+ 1cmc cantrips, and never less than 25.
I wish I could figure a way to go less than 23 lands, but a more reasonable approach is probably to re-introduce creature-lands in the list. I cut them after half a dozen matches or so because ETB tapped is a real hindrance to a game plan where you're trying to power out a JTMS or Teferi a turn or 2 early or with interaction on the same turn.
Your approach of cutting cantrips for interactive spells and lands is interesting though because it does tackle the same issue just in the other direction. The problem is finding consistently good interactive spells to fill those slots though. If you look at typical UW lists, there is so much filler in the flex slots where you often see anywhere from 3-6 1-of conditionally/contextually powerful interactive spells that aren't always on plan(Spell Snare, Condemn, Oust, Negate, Mana Leak, Settle the wreckage, supreme verdict, vendilion clique, gideon of the trials and timely reinforecements).
You could probably figure out the math for how many lands you need, but it's above my knowledge.
Some assumptions:
1) You want to hit your first 4 land drops. Maybe even 6, as sometimes you just have to hard cast terminus to not die.
2) You want growth spiral to ramp you in the first 3 turns.
I also think cantripping on turn 1 is not what you want to do with these reactive control decks, because you don't know what cards you are looking for. But I guess if you have a "low" land count, you will probably just be scrying towards lands. Also with 3 colors, you might want to be playing shocks tapped a lot of the time. Using a cantrip on turn 1 isn't always a good play. I would say half the time (especially when you're on the play), you don't want to cantrip on turn 1 unless you are looking for lands.
Is Nexus really necessary? I mean, I feel like JtMS puts the game away a LOT faster, considering you see so many cards a turn with WR out and Spirals/Think Twices.
No, its not. The deck functions well in Standard I'm finding too.
We could totally fit glittering wish into this deck.
You could, but glittering wish still suffers the same issues it always has; wish requires you to give up precious sideboard slots. The only slot that doesnt feel like you're giving up a slot completely is wheel of sun and moon.
A turn 3 wilderness followed up by dictate or cryptic with nexus and Jace/teferi as finishers.
Azcanta and orazzca are dope lands with wilderness... You have 25 cards in your library. 4 of them are nexus, how hard can it be to string up loyalty? Or conversely, hit them with a man land or 2 and hardcast a Nexus on the wilderness untap
Remanding your own gigadrowse is a soft fog/lands 2 turns and draws you a card. The copies still resolve. Reasons why to include a copy of it in main board. It's never a bad idea to tap them out before you stick a teferi and nexus next turn.
I only lost 2 games - Game 1 agaisnt BW taxes and G1 against KCI. Disrupting shoal was a house in the KCI match - you can tap out for Jace if you have another jace, a cryptic or an illumination in hand and its just GG.
BW Taxes felt close, I think I got lucky because both Growth and Shoal felt absolutely awful in that matchup.
Shift felt close as well, but I was able to keep him off 6 mana long enough with a combination of conditional countermagic on ramp spells and a clutch shoal on a lightning bolt the turn I tapped out for Jace.
GB Rock felt about even, nothing remarkable there and I absolutely smashed Jeskai just like the other time I played against it before updating the mana.
really like your list but you're main win cons are just jace and teferi locks? just curious. did you miss having no colonnades?
Well yes and no. There was definitely times where I wish I could have clocked the opponent with damage, and not in that league, but in other matches I wish I had a way to pressure walkers (or at least detention sphere to dig towards). Could be correct that some number of sphere or clique belong in the list as well since there are no 3 drops for Shoal.
But in my experience the opponent conceded most of the time once I was in a position to start using +2 on jace.
Some number of colonnade is most likely correct, I mostly just wanted to play around with boosting jace and teferi as early as possible without worrying about color screw (which is why only 2 field) or ETB tapped lands. The full 4 probably isn't necessary, you could probably get away with 2-3 especially if you end up running Pulse of Murasa. However, when you can ramp out terminus 2 turns early, and get your walkers in a turn or 2 earlier, the need for an actual win con is greatly lessened. It could be that opponents haven't figured to expect the walkers a turn early since it kind of comes as a surprise EOT with Growth, and once they adapt, it could be easier for them to play around, but for now, jace or teferi a turn or 2 early feels pretty busted. A common pattern for me would be like, turn 2 or 3 cast spiral plus a path to exile, or pierce/knot was just game over, they didnt expect me to be casting a walker on an empty board the next turn. Plus if its teferi I can further protect it, and Shoal almost gaurantees that they wont be able to double spell the following turn.
Edit** - to be fair, I don't find myself needing colonnade very much in Azorious Control anymore either. I do use it often, but it doesn't feel necessary, usually (not always) when you're in position to attack, the game is locked up.
The main issue with glittering wish is that it's too slow in a fair deck. Sideboard issues are ancillary. If you look at the decks where wish cards have been successful are combo decks, where they wish for a card that kills you. The most recent success with glittering with was when treasure cruise was legal with jeskai ascendancy.
You can compare glittering wish to tool box cards like gifts ungiven and mystical teachings. Teachings is never going to be in meta again, and gifts ungiven is currently used in storm. In the past, Gifts was used in fair decks like UW tron and 4 color midrange/control (when deathrite shaman was legal), and played with unburial rites and Iona, Shield of Emeria and Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite. It worked temporarily in those decks as they could cast gifts on turn 3, and turn 4 reanimate the fatty as they played mana dorks and mana rocks.
With that said, glittering wish has potential as growth spiral lets you cast your wish cards sooner. And if you have Wilderness Reclamation, it allows you to wish for a card on your turn, and cast it on your opponent's turn (if it was an instant).
With the speed issue is "mitigated," I think it's worth experimenting with glittering wish. Now I realize that you are only playing four growth spirals to ramp, and that may not be enough, but the 4 color mid range/control deck only played 4 deathrite shamans as ramp.
The sideboard issue, maybe someone smarter than me can figure it out. I think the locked in choices are
The main issue with glittering wish is that it's too slow in a fair deck. Sideboard issues are ancillary. If you look at the decks where wish cards have been successful are combo decks, where they wish for a card that kills you. The most recent success with glittering with was when treasure cruise was legal with jeskai ascendancy.
You can compare glittering wish to tool box cards like gifts ungiven and mystical teachings. Teachings is never going to be in meta again, and gifts ungiven is currently used in storm. In the past, Gifts was used in fair decks like UW tron and 4 color midrange/control (when deathrite shaman was legal), and played with unburial rites and Iona, Shield of Emeria and Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite. It worked temporarily in those decks as they could cast gifts on turn 3, and turn 4 reanimate the fatty as they played mana dorks and mana rocks.
With that said, glittering wish has potential as growth spiral lets you cast your wish cards sooner. And if you have Wilderness Reclamation, it allows you to wish for a card on your turn, and cast it on your opponent's turn (if it was an instant).
With the speed issue is "mitigated," I think it's worth experimenting with glittering wish. Now I realize that you are only playing four growth spirals to ramp, and that may not be enough, but the 4 color mid range/control deck only played 4 deathrite shamans as ramp.
The sideboard issue, maybe someone smarter than me can figure it out. I think the locked in choices are
So you have ~7 spots to play with. I don't know how you'd build the main deck.
I have to admit, I've never really been a fan of Glittering wish, but I do see the potential here -- Spiral makes clunky spells a lot easier to play. I'm gonna test this and see what happens.
I've played a large variety of Bant lists in the past (never worth posting until this one really), but if you really want more ramp, I've found that the 2nd best ramp spell to play is definitely Search for Tomorrow (Spiral obviously being the best ). It's great early, and gets shuffled away by Jace (or shuffles your deck to reset the top cards) later in the game. Most importantly, it doesn't tap you out.
Got another 5 straight wins against real decks (not in a league this time, just against the first 5 real decks in tourney practice room, excluding about 4 jank decks which all were easy wins, RB vampires, Electrodominance-do-nothing.dek, uG control with spiral and Nissa and the other one I dont really know how to classify, they really only cast blood moon, which met a pierce, and the new goblin rabblemaster before they conceded)
The 5 real decks were humans, storm, GW Kiki-Resto (is that a real deck?), amulet titan and Dredge. They all felt like pretty good matchups, I was surprised with Dredge especially, being able to ramp is HUUUGE in this match, a well timed terminus off an early jace + instant speed cantrip does the trick, and even just hardcast terminus is fine on the play with a spiral or two.
Ive played storm a few times now, and the matchup feels easy, which is saying something for a UWx deck. Only 1 game felt close, and I think the opponent just got greedy; i traded some early counter magic for cantrips and eventually they stormed out an empty the warrens for 16 tokens when I was at 17 life. I flashed in a snapcaster EOT and played a jace for a brainstorm hoping to set up a terminus (didnt have the cantrip or the terminus) which left me with 2 mana. They did some things and attacked all the tokens at me and I blocked one because I had pierce and snare in hand and they only had 2 mana left with a storm count of 1. Sure enough the last card they had was grapeshot and they cast it, I was able to counter the copy and the OG and find the terminus next turn. Was one of the highlight games of my last few sets. The other highlight was against humans, casting a serum visions on turn 3, setting up the terminus with a growth spiral and a glacial fortress in hand after the opponent cast Mantis Rider and vialed in Phantasmal image, both pumping the champion and attacking for 9. He conceded on the spot lol
The list is the same as last time except -2 Field of Ruin +2 Celestial Colonnade, which made zero difference in any of the games so far in the last 10 or so matches since I did the change. 23 lands has still be absolutely fine except 1 game where I couldn't find a green source until turn 4 and got stuck with a pair of spirals in hand, but I wasn't want for lands, just want for color.
I have yet to play against Pheonix, if anyone has the deck on MODO, I'd love to play against you for some practice. I have GP coming up and I'm considering this deck, but dont own the mistys in paper.. .need to know if i should make the purchase.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Bant Draw-Go Control
4x Celestial Colonnade
2x Hinterland Harbor
4x Field of Ruin
4x Flooded Strand
2x Misty Rainforest
2x Hallowed Fountain
2x Breeding Pool
3x Island
2x Plains
1x Forest
2x Search for Azcanta
4x Growth Spiral
4x Think Twice
3x Wilderness Reclamation
Planeswalkers (5)
3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2x Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
Removal (8)
4x Path to Exile
4x Terminus
Counters (8)
3x Logic Knot
1x Negate
4x Cryptic Command
4x Surgical Extraction
2x Dispel
1x Negate
2x Celestial Purge
2x Vendilion Clique
2x Timely Reinforcements
1x Baneslayer Angel
1x Lyra Dawnbringer
Play T3 Jace or Cryptic off of Growth Spiral. If you draw into a Terminus off of a Spiral during their turn, you can cast it with the land you put into play. This means that, as long as you have a W producing land in hand, you can play a T2 Terminus off of Spiral.
You also get access to Wilderness Reclamation, which is nice with Think Twice and Azcanta but also just lets us tap out for walkers. It also lets you swing with Colonnades and then untap at eot to interact.
Any thoughts on the list?
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
EDIT: Oh no Nexus? I'd look at if you can put that into the list.
Spirits
i definitely want to try out wilderness reclamation
I like the idea, and man do I LOVE incidental lifegain. I definitely forgot about Pulse. I wanted to play a Snapcaster or two, but there's just no targets for him other than Path really. You'd need 4 mana to Snap a Growth Spiral, and it's not a super high-value play anyways. As a side note, you can use Pulse of Murasa it to counter your opponent's Goryo's Vengeance or Prized Amalgam trigger.
Is Nexus really necessary? I mean, I feel like JtMS puts the game away a LOT faster, considering you see so many cards a turn with WR out and Spirals/Think Twices.
For sure, I'm thinking a 3/1 split makes sense, but I'm loving the evasion on Colonnade. You can't swing in a Falls vs. a Goyf or Hollow One or a big Shadow, for example.
Anyways, maybe I'm weird, but the moment Growth Spiral was spoiled I knew it would be my favorite card in the set. I'm pretty sure I did an irl fist pump when I saw it. WR was a latecomer to the deck, but it's been simultaneously great and super picky -- you have to have things to do with the mana, hence why I decided to play a set of Think Twice.
The main reason I'm playing 26 lands is to make certain I have one in hand (or draw one) to put into play with Growth Spiral. Otherwise it just cycles. I've tested a bit with 25 lands, and it seems fine. You do really wanna hit lands until 4 and windmill slam a WR on turn 3/4 (depending on whether or not you have a Growth Spiral). As for another planeswalker, I have a soft spot for Gideon Ally, so I could see playing one. I wouldn't cut Think Twice though -- it's super important for making WR good at what it does. I messed around with Hieroglyphic Illumination and Glimmer of Genius as well, but cycling illumination means you won't get a 2nd card from it later, and Glimmer can't be cast early at all.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
I did play some games with a similar list, sans Reclamation/Azcanta and with 4x spiral and 1x pulse being my only green cards, and it felt pretty good. I was especially surprised with how well Spiral plays out in UWx mirrors and control generally - being able to take the play from them at instant speed without being down on cards puts a beating on them. Handily beat Jeskai control and HS affinity as well as a bunch of brews in the tourney practice room. Lost to mono u tron, unsurprisingly, but it felt waaaay closer than when i play UW control - ramping with spiral can actually put you ahead on mana for awhile if you find Field of Ruin, and that makes a huge difference if you can cast a walker and hold up a couple pieces of countermagic.
I really feel like this deck has legs. I'll get around to testing Reclamation eventually I suppose, but im having too much fun in the meantime. Heres what I ran. Mana and sideboard needs work.
4 Opt
4 growth spiral
2 snapcaster mage
Removal (8)
4 Path
4 Terminus
Countermagic (10)
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
2 logic knot
1 negate
3 cryptic command
Win Condition (5)
3 jace the mindsculptor
2 teferi, hero of dominaria
4 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 forest
1 Plains
5 Island
2 Hinterland Harbour
3 Celestial Colonnade
1 Ramunap Excavator
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Pulse of Murasa
2 RIP
2 Stony Silence
2 Baneslayer Angel
1 celestial Purge
1 threads of disloyalty
2 dispel
2 negate
Might be too many non-fetchland green sources because it really doesn't matter if we get taken off them permanently in the late game. Probably should just be like +2 misty rainforest, -1 breeding pool, -1 hinterland.. I could even see going down to 2 colonnade in a list like this, its not a win condition of choice, and taplands really hurt when you're trying to press a mana advantage like growth spiral allows you to.
i do like gideon too but i feel if you're running green, then you should consider green walkers.
i was also thinking of having either tireless trackers or tarmogoyfs in the side. trackers seem decent.
EDIT: Also - knight of autumn. does a lot that we want: life, body for beater, artifact/enchantment hate. can be bounced back to do it again with CC
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Torrential Gearhulk
Planeswalkers (2)
2 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
Enchantments (6)
2 Search for Azcanta
2 Detention Sphere
2 Wilderness Reclamation
Instants (23)
4 Path to Exile
4 Opt
2 Spell Snare
2 Mana Leak
4 Growth Spiral
1 Bant Charm
1 Pulse of Murasa
3 Cryptic Command
2 Warrant // Warden
3 Celestial Colonnade
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Breeding Pool
1 Temple Garden
1 Hinterland Harbor
2 Field of Ruin
3 Island
1 Forest
1 Plains
4 Flooded Strand
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Damping Sphere
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Celestial Purge
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Dispel
1 Negate
3 Supreme Verdict
UR Izzet Phoenix
UR Izzet Kiki
UB Dimir Control
3x copies of the enchantment seems excessive so I'd play 2x max and maybe even just one with more cantrips to reliably find it as it is a late game card anyway.
Think Twice doesn't seem good enough imho and I'd prefer Opt instead for mana-efficiency (which is important before landing a Wilderness Reclamation).
I'd also rather play Remand as a cantrip that slows down the opponent.
For removal I'd consider Settle the Wreckage, maybe over Terminus to have a more reliable (and instant speed) sweeper option at a reasonable mana cost.
4 Serum Visions
2 Heiroglypic illumination
2 Opt
4 growth spiral
2 snapcaster mage
1 Timely Reinforcements
Removal (8)
4 Path
4 Terminus
Countermagic (9)
2 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
2 Logic Knot
2 cryptic command
2 Disrupting Shoal
3 jace the mindsculptor
2 teferi, hero of dominaria
Land (23)
2 field of ruin
4 Flooded Strand
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Breeding Pool
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 forest
2 Plains
5 Island
1 Hinterland Harbour
1 glacial fortress
2 kitchen finks
2 RIP
2 Stony Silence
2 dispel
2 negate
1 Celestial Purge
1 Threads of Disloyalty
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Disrupting Shoal
1 Blessed Alliance
I only lost 2 games - Game 1 agaisnt BW taxes and G1 against KCI. Disrupting shoal was a house in the KCI match - you can tap out for Jace if you have another jace, a cryptic or an illumination in hand and its just GG.
BW Taxes felt close, I think I got lucky because both Growth and Shoal felt absolutely awful in that matchup.
Shift felt close as well, but I was able to keep him off 6 mana long enough with a combination of conditional countermagic on ramp spells and a clutch shoal on a lightning bolt the turn I tapped out for Jace.
GB Rock felt about even, nothing remarkable there and I absolutely smashed Jeskai just like the other time I played against it before updating the mana.
Agreed with the mana sink in conjunction with Wilderness Reclamation. If you have a one-of mana sink, you may also want to consider White Sun's Zenith. With Reclamation, you only need two sources of white to cast it, and it will produce more value with double your mana available than Secure in the mid/late game. Of course, it depends on how willing you are to tap out for it at the end of your turn for that sweet double-mana.
It's a toss up though, because as I pointed out before the enchantment side of Azcanta being sorcery speed is awkward in a deck that wants to untap and play reactively - and if your flipped Azcanta goes uncontested, you're winning regardless of whether you have reclamation out or not. So X spells might be better, token generators are especially nice since they can be used to protect a walker you just played.
I also think with growth spiral you want a high number of lands. It's possible that playing 1-2 more lands and 1-2 more interactive spells is better than fewer lands and more cantrips.
I started at 25 land assuming that I would need a 26th for reasons like you've mentioned, but I quickly realized that with the additional cantrips you're already in line to find your lands more often and I came to the exact opposite conclusion - I've even half-jokingly titled the file where I keep my data on the deck as "Bant Xerox Control". Even now on 23 lands with 8 fetches and 2 Field of ruin, I'm finding myself flooded very often. I know it's very counter-intuitive, but I think I'm pretty objective on this one - I still run 26 land in my UW control decks unless im on 7+ 1cmc cantrips, and never less than 25.
I wish I could figure a way to go less than 23 lands, but a more reasonable approach is probably to re-introduce creature-lands in the list. I cut them after half a dozen matches or so because ETB tapped is a real hindrance to a game plan where you're trying to power out a JTMS or Teferi a turn or 2 early or with interaction on the same turn.
Your approach of cutting cantrips for interactive spells and lands is interesting though because it does tackle the same issue just in the other direction. The problem is finding consistently good interactive spells to fill those slots though. If you look at typical UW lists, there is so much filler in the flex slots where you often see anywhere from 3-6 1-of conditionally/contextually powerful interactive spells that aren't always on plan(Spell Snare, Condemn, Oust, Negate, Mana Leak, Settle the wreckage, supreme verdict, vendilion clique, gideon of the trials and timely reinforecements).
Some assumptions:
1) You want to hit your first 4 land drops. Maybe even 6, as sometimes you just have to hard cast terminus to not die.
2) You want growth spiral to ramp you in the first 3 turns.
I also think cantripping on turn 1 is not what you want to do with these reactive control decks, because you don't know what cards you are looking for. But I guess if you have a "low" land count, you will probably just be scrying towards lands. Also with 3 colors, you might want to be playing shocks tapped a lot of the time. Using a cantrip on turn 1 isn't always a good play. I would say half the time (especially when you're on the play), you don't want to cantrip on turn 1 unless you are looking for lands.
No, its not. The deck functions well in Standard I'm finding too.
Spirits
You could, but glittering wish still suffers the same issues it always has; wish requires you to give up precious sideboard slots. The only slot that doesnt feel like you're giving up a slot completely is wheel of sun and moon.
A turn 3 wilderness followed up by dictate or cryptic with nexus and Jace/teferi as finishers.
Azcanta and orazzca are dope lands with wilderness... You have 25 cards in your library. 4 of them are nexus, how hard can it be to string up loyalty? Or conversely, hit them with a man land or 2 and hardcast a Nexus on the wilderness untap
Remanding your own gigadrowse is a soft fog/lands 2 turns and draws you a card. The copies still resolve. Reasons why to include a copy of it in main board. It's never a bad idea to tap them out before you stick a teferi and nexus next turn.
really like your list but you're main win cons are just jace and teferi locks? just curious. did you miss having no colonnades?
But in my experience the opponent conceded most of the time once I was in a position to start using +2 on jace.
Some number of colonnade is most likely correct, I mostly just wanted to play around with boosting jace and teferi as early as possible without worrying about color screw (which is why only 2 field) or ETB tapped lands. The full 4 probably isn't necessary, you could probably get away with 2-3 especially if you end up running Pulse of Murasa. However, when you can ramp out terminus 2 turns early, and get your walkers in a turn or 2 earlier, the need for an actual win con is greatly lessened. It could be that opponents haven't figured to expect the walkers a turn early since it kind of comes as a surprise EOT with Growth, and once they adapt, it could be easier for them to play around, but for now, jace or teferi a turn or 2 early feels pretty busted. A common pattern for me would be like, turn 2 or 3 cast spiral plus a path to exile, or pierce/knot was just game over, they didnt expect me to be casting a walker on an empty board the next turn. Plus if its teferi I can further protect it, and Shoal almost gaurantees that they wont be able to double spell the following turn.
Edit** - to be fair, I don't find myself needing colonnade very much in Azorious Control anymore either. I do use it often, but it doesn't feel necessary, usually (not always) when you're in position to attack, the game is locked up.
You can compare glittering wish to tool box cards like gifts ungiven and mystical teachings. Teachings is never going to be in meta again, and gifts ungiven is currently used in storm. In the past, Gifts was used in fair decks like UW tron and 4 color midrange/control (when deathrite shaman was legal), and played with unburial rites and Iona, Shield of Emeria and Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite. It worked temporarily in those decks as they could cast gifts on turn 3, and turn 4 reanimate the fatty as they played mana dorks and mana rocks.
With that said, glittering wish has potential as growth spiral lets you cast your wish cards sooner. And if you have Wilderness Reclamation, it allows you to wish for a card on your turn, and cast it on your opponent's turn (if it was an instant).
With the speed issue is "mitigated," I think it's worth experimenting with glittering wish. Now I realize that you are only playing four growth spirals to ramp, and that may not be enough, but the 4 color mid range/control deck only played 4 deathrite shamans as ramp.
The sideboard issue, maybe someone smarter than me can figure it out. I think the locked in choices are
2 rest in peace
2 counter spells
1 supreme verdict
1 wheel of sun and moon
So you have ~7 spots to play with. I don't know how you'd build the main deck.
I have to admit, I've never really been a fan of Glittering wish, but I do see the potential here -- Spiral makes clunky spells a lot easier to play. I'm gonna test this and see what happens.
I've played a large variety of Bant lists in the past (never worth posting until this one really), but if you really want more ramp, I've found that the 2nd best ramp spell to play is definitely Search for Tomorrow (Spiral obviously being the best ). It's great early, and gets shuffled away by Jace (or shuffles your deck to reset the top cards) later in the game. Most importantly, it doesn't tap you out.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
The 5 real decks were humans, storm, GW Kiki-Resto (is that a real deck?), amulet titan and Dredge. They all felt like pretty good matchups, I was surprised with Dredge especially, being able to ramp is HUUUGE in this match, a well timed terminus off an early jace + instant speed cantrip does the trick, and even just hardcast terminus is fine on the play with a spiral or two.
Ive played storm a few times now, and the matchup feels easy, which is saying something for a UWx deck. Only 1 game felt close, and I think the opponent just got greedy; i traded some early counter magic for cantrips and eventually they stormed out an empty the warrens for 16 tokens when I was at 17 life. I flashed in a snapcaster EOT and played a jace for a brainstorm hoping to set up a terminus (didnt have the cantrip or the terminus) which left me with 2 mana. They did some things and attacked all the tokens at me and I blocked one because I had pierce and snare in hand and they only had 2 mana left with a storm count of 1. Sure enough the last card they had was grapeshot and they cast it, I was able to counter the copy and the OG and find the terminus next turn. Was one of the highlight games of my last few sets. The other highlight was against humans, casting a serum visions on turn 3, setting up the terminus with a growth spiral and a glacial fortress in hand after the opponent cast Mantis Rider and vialed in Phantasmal image, both pumping the champion and attacking for 9. He conceded on the spot lol
The list is the same as last time except -2 Field of Ruin +2 Celestial Colonnade, which made zero difference in any of the games so far in the last 10 or so matches since I did the change. 23 lands has still be absolutely fine except 1 game where I couldn't find a green source until turn 4 and got stuck with a pair of spirals in hand, but I wasn't want for lands, just want for color.
I have yet to play against Pheonix, if anyone has the deck on MODO, I'd love to play against you for some practice. I have GP coming up and I'm considering this deck, but dont own the mistys in paper.. .need to know if i should make the purchase.