A karve made from copper comes ashore from the sea. An old man, his beard pearly white and long enough to reach his waist, steps out. An elf steps out after him. Her arms and legs are clearly not the same as with which she was born. She asks from the old man: "What are these cold and desolate lands?" "These are the lands which I once sang from the sea, and to which I promised to return when I was once again needed and called for. There is much to be done here with your help." The pair starts walking inland.
Welcome to The People's Pod deck tech (Name pending. Kiki-Pod People/Vannifar Pod/Vannifar Chord?). I started my Modern career with a cute little deck called Melira-Chord, but I quickly moved onwards to strongers. One evening on my way to the FNM there was this odd looking fellow hanging near the local gamestore. When I walked past him he whispered to me: "Hey kid, I heard you like Creature Combo decks?" I nodded my head and as he opened the left side of his trench coat he whispered: "May I intrest you with some stronger stuff?", revealing Birthing Pod, Restoration Angel, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and all other cards just hanging from the inside of his trench coat. And what can I say, I was hooked. For the next nearly three years I just kept on turning The Pod sideways over and over again. Now kids if a stranger offers you powerful and slightly broken Magic the Gathering cards... You take them! Those thing are expensive! You might understand that I was heartbroken when Pod was banned four years ago, so much so that I have not touched the format since, but the times... they indeed are a-changin'.
Now that the day's dose of humour is out of the way lets getto actual business.
What is this deck's battle plan?
This deck's wins by landing a Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and a untap outlet. Either a Deceiver Exarch, a Restoration Angel or a Zealous Conscripts. Everything else in the deck aims in getting you there as fast as possible and keeping you alive long enough to get you there.
How does it exactly get your opponents life to zero?
Here's an example of a winning board state.
You have Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker on the battle along with, for this example, Deceiver Exarch
You use Kiki's activated ability and make a token copy of the Exarch.
The token comes into play you target Kiki with its triggered ability and untap Kiki.
Now you again have an untapped Kiki and can repeat the process over and over again until you have enough Exarchs to kill your oppnent dead.
Alpha strike!
Why should I play this deck over other Creatures Toolbox decks?
Honestly, at the moment, I don't know for obvious reasons, but I will be updating my play group's and anybody else's who wants to contribute experiences with it.
The philosophy of the deck and how to build your very own Kiki-Pod:
What is Kiki-Pod? Kiki-Pod is a deck with a very powerful engine that leads to a game ending combo. I know that's a bit vague, but that is because the deck kind of is. That is because there are several different ways to build the deck. Illustrating what I mean by that might be easier through examples. So lets do just that. Here are four distinct lists which have shown promise:
The first one is a pure combo oriented list which if given the chance to untap with Vannifar right then and there.
The second one aims to generate value through Voices, Rhythms, Finkses and Restoration Angels, but it also has the ability to just chain for the game ending combo.
The third example is SquaChief's list with which he 5-0'ed a MTGO event. It isn't completely all in with comboing off, nor is trying to just generate value. Instead it uses creatures that can generate value and also has a lot of possibilities from where to combo off.
The last one is what I've been running. Compared to SquaChief's list it uses some different cards as tech. It does aim to generate more value, shooting Silver Bullets to get through difficult board states and be less reliant on the combo aspect.
Now, looking at these deck lists maybe you can see what I mean when I say that the deck is a bit vague? If you don't then let me show ya.
Here are all the spell cards that are shared between all the deck: Shared Cards 3-4x Birds of Paradise 3-4x Noble Hierarch 1-2x Scavenging Ooze 1x Scryb Ranger 3-4x Prime Speaker Vannifar 1-2x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker 3x Chord of Calling
That means that only about fifteen cards at the least that are locked in their slots and twenty cards at the most. In addition you will want to play 22 to 23 lands. This leaves us about twenty slots to play around with. With which to tune our decks to fit the meta game. The us start with cards that have similar functions to each other. I will highlight cards pairs that are must include one and which are optional.
Effective Reprints
For these cards the amounts are what the above lists, and most others, play at maximum of. The Mana Dorks 2x Wall of Roots
Some decks choose to augment their mana generation with trusty old Wall of Roots.
The Untappers
These are the cards that you want to use to untap Vannifar so that you can power your Pod chains and with which you can untap Kiki-Jiki to generate an arbitrary amount of tokens with which to your opponent with. 3x Bounding Krasis 1x Deceiver Exarch 1x Village Bell-ringer
Krasis, Exarch and Bell-ringer are your untappers at the 3 CMC slot. You will want at least one of them in any Pod list. 2x Breaching Hippocamp 2x Restoration Angel
At 4 CMC our untappers are Hippocamps and Restoration Angels. All the lists play combination of two to three of these. 1x Zealous Conscripts 1x Sky Hussar
And then we get to the 5 CMC slot. All the lists play only up to one of either of these. Value lists don't even play a single one of them since they are not really worth the five mana that are required to cast them.
The Recursion 1x Eternal Witness 1x Renegade Rallier
When your opponent Thoughtseizes you for a critical combo piece you will want to get it back into your hand or with Rallier straight into the battlefield. Additionally Rallier can be used alongside Scryb Ranger to chain into 4 CMC creatures with Vannifar
Combo Protection 1x Shalai, Voice of Plenty 1x Spellskite
Shalai and Spellskite are what you want to protect your creatures with from Bolts, Paths and whatever else your opponent aims to aim at them. Spellskite is the cheaper option and can be used against Infect and if you have enough U also against Burn effectively. Shalai on the other hand is much better against Burn but can't really deal with Infect. On the other hand it is very good when the game turns into a grind thanks to its activated ability.
The Tutor 1-3x Eldritch Evolution
Some people include Eldritch Evolution as a complimentary tutor. Its strength being that it is a lot cheaper compared to Chord.
Besides these cards there are dozens of different options that the deck could run, from Coiling Oracle to Rhythmn of thr Wilds and Glen Elendra Archmages.
Now there are the essential cards and card types what you need to build your Kiki-Pod deck. With this information let analyze SquaChief's list.
It has 23 lands, 20 cards that are "must includes", 13 of alternate cards and four complimentary ones.
Card choices: Under construction
The Thin Green Line
Like all other Creature Toolbox decks Kiki-Pod People stands on shoulders of its mana dorks. The main culprits are: Birds of Paradise:What can I say, really. In a vacuum Birds is the best mana dork there is. It creates all the colours and it costs just a single G. It comes down the very first turn and on the next one you have access to 50% than your opponent. Also it, in a pinch, does block flyers. If you are not running four birds in your list you have to answer one important, yet simple, question: "Why?" Noble Hierarch: Also known by her street name Bant Bird. She doesn't fly nor does she provide R or B mana, but if the game turns into a grindfest she does provide something very valuable, Exalted. Exalted is great if you, for certainty know that were you to Chain to Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and a Deceiver Exarch you would be unable to protect them with your opponent probably just killing Kiki and leaving you with a Exarch on board for all of your troubles in the end. Although it can be argued that this much less of a problem with Vannifar compared to the Notorious POD since you won't need to pay two, four, six or even eight life to Chain all the way to Kiki. Wall of Roots:Lets start with the weaknesses that Wall of Roots has. I can only generate G, it can only do it five times without outside assistance and it costs twice as much as Birds and Noble does. And here are reasons why you want to play it. It can produce two G mana between your untap steps and it doesn't need to tap itself to do that. That means you can use it to ramp your stuff on your turn and cast instants on your opponent's turn. And here's when it become truly broken, if that instant spell is a Chord of Calling the Wall of Roots can effectively produce three mana between your untap steps since you can in addition tap it to contribute to Chord's Convoke cost. Wall of Roots is one of the best, if not the best, mana dorks when it comes to producing explosive amounts of mana. Also it has a really thicc rear end and can block a lot of your opponent's creatures for days.
Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more! Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker:My Main Man Kiki-Jiki, the hammer that pounds the metaphorical nails into out opponents. Since he has haste and has the ability to create copies of our other creatures, as long as you have a creature in play that either blinks or untaps anoter creature you can create an arbitarily large army of tokens to overwhelm your opponents' defences and kill them. Now his negative aspects his quite high CMC of five, although you rarely cast him, and that since he has a thoughness of two he literaly dies to every removal in the format besides Gut Shot and Fatal Push. Now this means that if you are not sure that you opponent doesn't have any removal, nor are forced to Combo off that very moment you probably will want to protect him. Good options are Shalai, Voice of Plenty, Spellskite or just holding a Negate or a Apostle's Blessing in your hand. Deceiver Exarch:The Exarch is the cheapest of our finishers at 3 CMC. It is also a centerpiece of most of our Pod Chains and can be a great combat trick due to having Flash, its ability to tap and untap permanents and its higher than average toughness compared to its mana cost. Restoration Angel:The Angel, or as some call her Resto, is our finisher piece at 4 CMC. She used to be a more central part back during the days of the Notorious POD, with blinking creatures with ETB triggers or saving them from targeted removal spells. Now the decks that are being brewed lean more towards assembling the combo as fast as possible, but one could still consider build a more Midrange deck with a combo finisher which would put Resto back in the spotlight as a three to four of instead of the one or two of that decks are currently running. Zealous Conscripts: The sun might be setting on Zealous Conscripts. They are our finisher at the 5 CMC and and integral part of two of our Pod chains. But his mana cost makes him a bit akward piece to hardcast from your hand and its ETB trigger is not always that useful. It can have some good, sometimes even extremely explosive, results. Have you ever podded you opponents Siege Rhino, or better yet, taken advatage of your opponents foolishness and "borrowed" their Karn Liberated... at 14 Loyalty. I have, it was fun. Breaching Hippocamp:Hippocamp is the new kid on the block. It shares the 4 CMC slot with Restoration Angel and one could argue that it might be a good idea to just ditch Ol' Resto and W mana all together and smooth out our mana and the self inflicted pain that running six to eight shocklands brings us. Plus Hippocamp improves out chaining since it merely untaps the target instead of blinking it like Resto does, which can be used to reset Vannifar for further chaining. Sky Hussar:
The Good, the Bad and the Ugly Prime Speaker Vannifar: Vannifar's strength is that she can tutor up multiple creatures during a single turn and that she is a creature. Also her activated ability is in a completely different league than the one Birthing Pod was sporting. There were situations in which we just couldn't Pod off due to not having enough mana and/or paying the life cost would have meant that we would end up in burn range. Now her weaknesses are that she needs to sacrifice a creature for each tutor, so you won't be gaining creature advantage from her and that she is a creature. Yes being a creature is both a strength and a weakness, it all depends on the game state.
Being a creature means that she is vulnerable to creature removal (I know blah blah dies to removal), but this is compared to the Notorious POD, which being an artifact meant that a lot of decks did not run removal for it main deck. Also she suffers from summoning sickness, which means that without help, which granted does exist, can't combo off the turn she is cast.
Now, why is being a creature a positive? Because you can Chord her when you opponent passes the turn and go off on your own turn making vulnerable only to instant speed removal. Also you can use for example Shalai, Voice of Plenty and other creature protection to shield her, which are much more prevalent than artifact protection. Chord of Calling: Chord is of our tutors actually the only one that nets card advantage, it can be cast at instant speed and though it is and expensive card you can use your creatures to pay for its casting cost. Additionally you are not bound to tutor only targets that based on the creatures you have in play unlike with Vannifar and Evolution, but by the amount of mana you have. Eldritch Evolution: Evolution is the illegal drag racing car of our tutors. You get it online turns earlier than Vannifar and Chord, it costs a fixed amount of mana and if you are lucky enough you get to draw and cast it again, but you need a creature to cast it and the creatures you have in play determine what you can tutor for. Its strength is that it is cheap to cast and you get the results a lot quicker compared to Vannifar and chord, but since you can't use it multiple times a turn it isn't as easy to set up the combo when compared to Vannifar. And since it is a sorcery it doesn't have the same kind of surprise element as Chord has.
The Backup How many are there? There's a lot of them, sire.
This is where each deck starts to apply their own spice to the brew. This is where you start making meaningful choices for your deck. Do you want to be almost solely a combo oriented deck? Or do you go more of a slightly Midrange path?
The Pod Chains:
(I don't really know what would the proper name since we don't technically run Pod, but people seem to be refering to them as Pod Chains still.)
All these chains expect you to have a Prime Speaker Vannifar on board and online.
-Pod the two drop into a Deceiver Exarch
-Untap Vannifar with the Exarch trigger
-Pod the one drop into a Phantasmal Image
-Copy the Exarch with the Image
-Untap Vannifar with copied Exarch trigger
-Pod the Image that copied Exarch into a Restoration Angel
-Blink the Exarch with the Angel trigger
-Untap Vannifar with the Exarch trigger
-Pod the Angel into a Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
-Combo off
-Pod the one drop into a Scryb Ranger
-Bounce a Forest and untap Vannifar
-Pod Scryb Ranger into a Renegade Rallier
-Return the Scryb Ranger into play with Rallier's Revolt trigger
-Bounce a Forest and Untap Vannifar
-Pod the Scryb Ranger into a Deceiver Exarch
-Untap Vannifar with the Exarch trigger
-Pod the Rallier into a Restoration Angel
-Blink the Exarch with the Angel trigger
-Untap Vannifar with the Exarch trigger
-Pod the Angel into a Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
-Combo off
-Pod the two drop into a Deceiver Exarch
-Untap Vannifar with the Exarch trigger
-Pod the three-drop into a Restoration Angel
-Blink the Exarch with the Angel trigger
-Untap Vannifar with the Exarch trigger
-Pod the Angel into a Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
-Combo off
-Pod the four-drop into Zealous Conscripts
-Untap Vannifar with the Conscripts trigger
-Pod the three-drop into a Restoration Angel
-Blink Conscripts with the Angel trigger
-Untap Vannifar with the Conscripts trigger
-Pod the Angel into Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
-Combo off
Some more specific board states from which you can Pod off from:
-Pod the one drop into Phantasmal Image
-Copy Deceiver Exarch with the Image
-Untap Vannifar with the copied Exarch's trigger
-Pod the copied Exarch's into Restoration Angel
-Blink the Exarch with the Angel trigger
-Untap Vannifar with the Exarch's trigger
-Pod the Angel into Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
-Combo off
-Pod the Glen Elendra Archmage or Murderous Redcap
-The Archmage's/Redcap's Persist triggers
-The Archmage/Redcap returns to play
-Vannifar's activated ability resolves. Search for Zealous Conscripts
-Untap Vannifar with the Conscripts trigger
-Pod the Archmage/Archmage into Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
-Combo off
-Pod the three-drop into Ranger of Eos
-Search for Seedcradle Witch (and a one-drop you might need)
-Play the Witch
-Use the Witch's activated ability and untap Vannifar
-Pod the Witch into Scryb Ranger
-Pod Scryb Ranger into a Renegade Rallier
-Return the Scryb Ranger into play with Rallier's Revolt trigger
-Bounce a Forest and untap Vannifar
-Pod the Ranger into Deceiver Exarch
-Untap Vannifar with Exarch's trigger
-Pod Ranger into Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
-Combo off
-Play, fetch or already have Dryad Arbor on board
-Pod Arbor into a Seedcradle Witch
-Untap Vannifar with the Witch's activated ability
-Pod the Witch into a Scryb Ranger
-Bounce a Forest and untap Vannifar
-Pod the Scryb Ranger into a Deceiver Exarch
-Untap Vannifar with the Exarch trigger
-Pod the Rallier into a Restoration Angel
-Blink the Exarch with the Angel trigger
-Untap Vannifar with the Exarch trigger
-Pod the Angel into a Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
-Combo off
-Pod the two-drop into a Deceiver Exarch
-Untap Vannifar with the Exarch trigger
-Pod the Exarch into a Restoration Gearsmith
-Cast the Exarch and untap Vannifar with the Exarch's comes into play trigger
-Pod the Gearsmith into a Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
-Combo off
For this chain to function your deck needs to have the following cards in it, but its beauty is that once you get up on a ladder you can ignore everything below it. There are two different paths and I will note when they diverge, but lets get on with the show:
0. Prime Speaker Vannifar
1. Fetch Land for a Dryad Arbor
2. Pod Arbor into a Seedcradle Witch
3. Untap Vannifar with the Witch and Pod the Witch into a Scryb Ranger
4. Untap Vannifar with the Ranger by returning a Forest and Pod the Ranger into a Bounding Krasis or a Deceiver Exarch and untap Vannifar with the ETB trigger.
5. Pod the Krasis/Exarch into a Breaching Hippocamp and untap Vannifar with the Hippocamp trigger
6. Pod the Hippocamp into a Sky Hussar or a Zealous Conscripts. The ETB trigger untaps Vannifar
7. Pod the Hussar/Conscripts into a Woodland Bellowe or a Sun Titan
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8a. With the Bellower Trigger fetch a 2nd Krasis from you deck. Untap Vannifar with the Krasis trigger
9a. Pod the Krasis into a 2nd Hippocamp. Untap Vannifar with the Hippocamp trigger.
10a. Pod the Hippocamp into a Kiki-Jiki. Copy the Bellower with Kiki-Jiki's activated ability.
11a. Fetch a 3rd Krasis. Untap Kiki-Jiki with Krasis's trigger.
12a. Combo off!
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8b. With the Sun Titan trigger return Exarch/Krasis to the battlefield. Untap Vannifar with the ETB trigger.
9b. Pod the Exarch/Krasis into a Restoration Angel. Blink the Sun Titan and return the Exarch/Krasis to the battlefield. Untap Vannifar with the ETB trigger.
10b. Pod the Restoration Angel into a Kiki-Jiki
11b. Combo off!
BUT! Let me warn you about Deceiver Exarch's
Before everything is find and dandy and you got for the Alpha Strike, let me remind you about the card that is the bane of our deck. The Rakdos Charm. If you have suspicion that your opponent just might have it, i.e. they have a Mountain and a Swamp untapped, it is way much easier and less painful to upgrade your Deceiver Exarch into a Restoration Angel by following these simple steps.
You have a tapped Prime Speaker Vannifar, a untapped Kiki-Jiki, Mirrorbreaker and a Deceiver Exarch in play:
-Use Kiki-Jiki's activated ability and target Exarch
-The Exarch's copy comes into play
-Target Vannifar with the Exarch's triggered ability
-Untap Vannifar
-Pod the Exarch's Copy into a Restoration Angel
-Target Kiki-Jiki with the Angel's triggered ability and Blink Kiki-Jiki
-Combo off
Now would this be important enough for it to receive its very own section? Because back in the day, yours truly, finished 9th in a PTQ because in the final round he faced against a Jund deck. We were in the third game. My opponent was holding a single mystery card. I think I had a Deceiver and a four drop on board at least. I drew a Pod. I was slightly ahead on board, but I decided to cast the Pod and Pod the four drop into a Kiki to close the match now and then. I created enough tokens to kill my opponent and then my opponent cast his Rakdos Charm. I walked right into his trap. After the match I did the math and if I had upgraded the Exarch into a Restoration Angel I would have won. Now since we do not play artifacts anymore the Charm's "Kill Us" mode is even more prevalent, since they won't be wasting it on the Birthing Pod.
Now here is my current deck list which by far is not finished.
PS Original message:
" So I'm finally, after three years in exile, returning to the Modern format. Can you guess why?
So my deck is almost ready, but I need some help figuring out the mana base. All advice would be welcome."
PSS Ten points to the person who figures the reference at the beginning.
I love these types of decks so gladly - just food for thought, one Kiki-Jiki is probably enough since you mostly should just go for the combo if you are pressured into it or if you believe the opponent has no interaction. You can also eventually get him back with the Eternal Witness if he dies. I also believe at least a second Renegade Rallier is needed, if you naturally draw him then you can`t search him up with Vannifar and he is the best target, especially with Scryb Ranger. If you manage to find space for a Dryad Arbor in your manabase, that`s also a possible inclusion to get the chain going, as are a number of Eldritch Evolution to "ramp" into your Vannifar.
Here`s a very good post a user named Lectrys made in the "Ravnica Allegiance Previews: Modern Discussion" Thread which probably interests you.
In the meantime, I've found out that, as long as you have enough Forests (have only one Forest? Don't use your land drop for the turn yet!), Prime Speaker Vannifar & arbitrary 1-drop kills:
A corollary is that both Vannifar & Scryb Ranger and Vannifar & Chord of Calling also kill.
Heck, Vannifar & 3-drop also kill--turn 3-drop into Ranger of Eos tutoring for 1-drop and Teardrop Kami, cast both 1-drops, sac Kami to untap Vannifar, then proceed as above. Man, 2 more slots eats up quite a lot, though. (I guess waiting a turn and turning the 3-drop into Murderous Redcap, then turning the Redcap into Zealous Conscripts (untapping Vannifar) and Kiki-Jiki uses up just as many deck slots, though.) Eternal Witness recurring Scryb Ranger and hardcasting the Ranger again can do in a pinch.
For better ability to kill through Rakdos Charm, stick Breaching Hippocamp in your deck and add more steps.
If you have 2GW to spare, Vannifar & Forest fetch also kills:
Fetch for Dryad Arbor
Turn Dryad Arbor into Seedcradle Witch, untap Vannifar
Turn Seedcradle Witch into Scryb Ranger, proceed as above
Turn Voice of Resurgence into Exarch, untap Vannifar
Turn Voice token into Seedcradle Witch, untap Vannifar
Turn Seedcradle Witch into Phantasmal Image copying Exarch, untap Vannifar
Turn Image into Resto, blink Exarch, untap Vannifar
Turn Resto into Kiki-Jiki, combo off
My friend made the same remark about the two Kikis, but my reasoning for have two of them is simply this. I tried to play only one when Pod was still legal for a while, but several times I ran into a, quite frankly, major problem. There was several games when that Kiki would get stuck in my hand and almost all of those games would end in a loss, either I would grind my opponent down by podding Restos from the Finks or I would have to spend a turn or two in scrounging up lands and mana dorks to cast Kiki. Also there is ever the possibility that when Kiki was in my hand that my opponent would simply Thoughtseize it.
I think that one Rallier is enough since if it is in my hand and I have I mana dork on the battlefield I can Pod into (I think we might need to update our lexicon, but Vannify just doesn't have the same ring to it) a Scryb Ranger, Untap Vannifar, Pod the Ranger into a Deceiver Exarch and just cast the the Rallier, return something useful into my hand and then continue Poding from there.
Also Rhythm of the Wild is looking like really sweet card. Haste or +1/+1 counters on all the men and protection from counter spells.
Your mana base looks fine for the most part, especially since you have a lesser emphasis on Vannifar than I do (and therefore a reduced need for Forests through Scryb Ranger mid-combo abuse). I'm using a similar mana base myself, although I need to caution that mana bases like ours are rough against aggro decks.
I'm not a great fan of Rhythm of the Wild in this deck, mainly because it's not a creature and it therefore cannot be tutored for, tapped for Convoke, or fed to Vannifar. Unlike Domri, Chaos Bringer, it cannot dig for threats (but, also unlike Domri 2.0, it can enable a Turn 3 Vannifar-fueled combo).
Unlike with the slower-to-assemble-combos Kiki Actual Pre-Ban Pod, I'm no longer convinced Murderous Redcap or Zealous Conscripts are necessary; while I may give Redcap a pass if you keep Rhythm of the Wild, Conscripts only enables 4-drop Persist and double 4-drop chains along with comboing with Kiki-Jiki and kidnapping the occasional hate permanent for a hefty 5 cmc. I ditched Conscripts and Redcap early into developing my heavy Vannifar build to enable cheaper chains instead, and I haven't wanted these guys back.
I do like Magus of the Moon, though, and I've been trying to find room for that guy in my build. (I just keep enabling more combo chains and trying to increase the speed of my deck instead.)
Here`s a very good post a user named Lectrys made in the "Ravnica Allegiance Previews: Modern Discussion" Thread which probably interests you.
A user named Lectrys, the very same Lectrys who was a staple member of the Kiki-Pod thread... I'm really glad he is brewing with Vannifar
Aw, thanks! I remember working out Kiki Pod decks when that deck type was just born, and that deck was a pretty fun ride. Birthing Pod feels faster and more resilient but less powerful than Vannifar. Being faster and more resilient are enough reasons to eat a ban, though.
Either way, where should the discussion about Vannifar.deck take place, here or in the Kiki-Chord thread? Have some thoughts and ideas and I do not want that a possible discussion get split up into two places.
Greetings,
Kathal
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Either way, where should the discussion about Vannifar.deck take place, here or in the Kiki-Chord thread? Have some thoughts and ideas and I do not want that a possible discussion get split up into two places.
Greetings,
Kathal
Maybe here for a moment, until somebody is brave/good enough to write an actual primer and has enough time to maintain it.
I'm not a great fan of Rhythm of the Wild in this deck, mainly because it's not a creature and it therefore cannot be tutored for, tapped for Convoke, or fed to Vannifar. Unlike Domri, Chaos Bringer, it cannot dig for threats (but, also unlike Domri 2.0, it can enable a Turn 3 Vannifar-fueled combo).
Unlike with the slower-to-assemble-combos Kiki Actual Pre-Ban Pod, I'm no longer convinced Murderous Redcap or Zealous Conscripts are necessary; while I may give Redcap a pass if you keep Rhythm of the Wild, Conscripts only enables 4-drop Persist and double 4-drop chains along with comboing with Kiki-Jiki and kidnapping the occasional hate permanent for a hefty 5 cmc. I ditched Conscripts and Redcap early into developing my heavy Vannifar build to enable cheaper chains instead, and I haven't wanted these guys back.
We're just testing Rhythm of the Wild to see if it helps at all or not, the alternative being either Domri, Chaos Bringer or just to +2 Prime Speaker Vannifar and a Kitchen Finks or a Restoration Angel. The choice is basically dependent on how much control there is in my enviroment and what kind of control it is. If it turns out to be an endless sea of Draw-Go, I'll stick with the enchantment. If it is Supreme Verdicts, Wrath of Gods and Damnations for days, I'll go with the new Domri. But if neither manages to surface I'll just add some more redundancy and pack in a few more creatures.
Also I like to play one Redcap incase there is say a Phyrexian Revoker on the field and a Glen Elendra Archmage if I have a suspicion that my opponent is holding on to an answer for Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and the Zealous Conscripts is there so that I can Pod off the Redcap and off the Archmage with same assistance.
But all that is still in the testing phase.
We're just testing Rhythm of the Wild to see if it helps at all or not, the alternative being either Domri, Chaos Bringer or just to +2 Prime Speaker Vannifar and a Kitchen Finks or a Restoration Angel. The choice is basically dependent on how much control there is in my enviroment and what kind of control it is. If it turns out to be an endless sea of Draw-Go, I'll stick with the enchantment. If it is Supreme Verdicts, Wrath of Gods and Damnations for days, I'll go with the new Domri. But if neither manages to surface I'll just add some more redundancy and pack in a few more creatures.
Rhythm of the Wild allows the turn 3 kill, so I would only play it if the deck would need to go faster, so that you REALLY need the turn 3 kill. And even than you need two Forest in play to be able to pull it off:
0 floating, Pod, Bird
Pod Bird for Scyb Ranger
Untap Pod, Pod for Renegade Rallier - 1 Forest
Untap Pod, Pod Rallier for Resto blink Pod - 2 Forests
Pod enters with Riot again (Haste), Pod Scyb Ranger for Exarch, untap Pod
Pod Angel for Kiki-Jiki and win
Thanks to Rhythm you need 1 Forest less for that chain (since you can blink Vannifar and get the haste again from Riot).
Domri, Chaos Bringer is a REALLY good card in that shell and I would play two in the SB for basically every match-up which is remotely grindy or even include them in the MD, if the need for Rhythm drops down (I currently REALLY like that card tbh). Also, I would play him above the 3 mana Domri, since the deck wants to play more Birds either way due to the turn 3 Rhythm kill (would even play 4 of them tbh, if your metagame demands the turn 3).
However, I wouldn't want to overload on those lands, since those utility lands can and will lead to awkward draws, especially if you want to play a Township too. Realistically only Township is truly desirable, if the deck plays Rhythm (cause you do not need haste), otherwise Battlements and Hall of the Bandit Lord gets more interesting (although both are worse, since both do not allow a turn 3 kill).
Either way, I just realised, that you cannot combo chain off from anything but a one drop or Scryb Ranger, if it is the only creature in play and you do not have a Rhythm (otherwise a three drop would also work, since you Pod Angle, blink Vannifar than Pod Vannifar for Kiki). If you do not have a Rhythm in play, it would only work with either: Ranger of Eos (grabbing a one drop and Teardrop Kami or Seedcradle Witch (need 4 floating mana than) and start from there) or via Breaching Hippocamp if the sac outlet has Persist. You currently have 6 three drops without Persists and 3 with Persist, which means the Ranger package (Ranger + Witch) sounds better than the Hippo. This package also allows you to combo off from a two drop which is not Scryb Ranger (grab Exarch, grab Ranger, grab Bird + Witch, start the standard 1 drop loop). Including those two cards basically allow you to combo off with any creature with CMC 3 or less as long as you have 4 mana available. This sounds good to me if I'm honest.
Also I like to play one Redcap incase there is say a Phyrexian Revoker on the field and a Glen Elendra Archmage if I have a suspicion that my opponent is holding on to an answer for Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and the Zealous Conscripts is there so that I can Pod off the Redcap and off the Archmage with same assistance.
But all that is still in the testing phase.
But nobody plays Revoker atm, it sees only play in some Death and Taxes decks, which are basically irrelevant. If you really want an out vs Revoker than Knight of Autumn (which you already are playing) is strictly better. Also, it (Redcap) sucks vs Ooze (which interrupts the Scryb Ranger into Rallier chains) so I honestly see no reason to play it atm (there are simply no realistic targets in the game for it). Zealous Conscripts is better, since it does at least something (it is also nice against Planeswalkers), but even than I do not think, that that card is really necessary.
I was looking through the card base/spoilers and found this nice gem: Silhana Wayfinder. It can fix the draws while being able to dig for the cards we usually wants. Militia Bugler costs one more and adds the card directly into your hand, which is of course nice, but I will test with Wayfinder first (also, as a two drop it is so much nicer, if the opponent has removal for the turn 1 Bird).
This is especially an interesting decision because of Eldritch Evolution. Evolution can grab a silver bullet creature faster and more reliable than Chord (cause you just need something to "Pod" from to say it this way compared to the actual mana requirement of Chord). Both are bad when the board is empty, but Evolution can at least reliable rebuild sooner (one drop into Rallier/Witness rebuilds at least some board within a turn and you only need 4 mana for this compared to the 6 from Chord (Chord Witness)). I have not played that much with either cards to be honest, so I will need to test both of them to get a better feeling, which one is better for the given metagame.
How does Kiki-Pod People or Kiki-Pod Person sound like for the name of the brew?
Garbage
Kiki-Pod People at least sounds like something, but the deck (if it gets viable somehow) will need a proper name ^^
Greetings,
Kathal
PS: I honestly think, that an all-in version (aka with Rhythm) might not be good, cause the Devoted Druid deck with Postmortem Lunge does this better and especially more consistent.
PPS: Will brew together my "own" version in the next couple of days (depending on how much time I exactly have).
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Either way, where should the discussion about Vannifar.deck take place, here or in the Kiki-Chord thread? Have some thoughts and ideas and I do not want that a possible discussion get split up into two places.
Greetings,
Kathal
Unfortunately, the OP maintainer for the current Kiki Chord thread, Ludafish, indeed posted that s/he will update with Vannifar lists, so chances are that discussion will get split. I initially posted a slightly older Vannifar list in the Kiki Chord thread, but I'll post an updated one here.
When it comes to the lands you have zero to two slots for utility lands. Here comes the choice between consistency and gambling on winning certain matchups. I did consider Minamo, School at Water's Edge and Hall of the Bandit Lord, because like you said, they fit into our strategy. I ignored Hanweir Battlements because well it does increase Vannifar's casting cost by two if you play her from your hand.
Running Ranger is a balancing act between having one more board state to Pod of to Kiki-Jiki, having enough silver bullets and being able to just present enough warm bodies and grind your opponent down, if for whatever reason you are locked out of Kiki-Jiki, for example Slaughter Games. It is not a bad idea, but it is a choice you have make. I personally think that using up three slots is too much.
The Revoker example was jsut something I pulled out of my hat, but that isn't the only reason I play Redcap. He is in the end our only form of main deck removal. I kinda want to have something that reads: "Break glass, in case of an emergency."
Either way, where should the discussion about Vannifar.deck take place, here or in the Kiki-Chord thread? Have some thoughts and ideas and I do not want that a possible discussion get split up into two places.
Greetings,
Kathal
Unfortunately, the OP maintainer for the current Kiki Chord thread, Ludafish, indeed posted that s/he will update with Vannifar lists, so chances are that discussion will get split. I initially posted a slightly older Vannifar list in the Kiki Chord thread, but I'll post an updated one here.
We will see what time brings. Maybe it will all fall under the Kiki Chord umbrella, maybe it will diverge. Vannifar does play blue and if it evolves to have Vannifar as its central pillar it will probably diverge, just like the Melira Chord lists diverged from Melira-Pod lists back in the day.
When it comes to the lands you have zero to two slots for utility lands. Here comes the choice between consistency and gambling on winning certain matchups. I did consider Minamo, School at Water's Edge and Hall of the Bandit Lord, because like you said, they fit into our strategy. I ignored Hanweir Battlements because well it does increase Vannifar's casting cost by two if you play her from your hand.
Running Ranger is a balancing act between having one more board state to Pod of to Kiki-Jiki, having enough silver bullets and being able to just present enough warm bodies and grind your opponent down, if for whatever reason you are locked out of Kiki-Jiki, for example Slaughter Games. It is not a bad idea, but it is a choice you have make. I personally think that using up three slots is too much.
Running Ranger adds 2 cards (Ranger + Witch, you already have enough one drops so no need to add Teardrop Kami) for the possibility to basically always combo off, doesn't sound that bad to me tbh. Heck, Witch on it's own is decent enough, cause it can pump your attacking creature.
Also, how much do you know about the current Modern meta? Cause it seems to me that you are basically stuck in the 2015 metagame, where things like Slaughter Games, Revoker and other (crappy) cards got played
If you do not really know, what is currently happening, I can give you a tl;dr.
We will see what time brings. Maybe it will all fall under the Kiki Chord umbrella, maybe it will diverge. Vannifar does play blue and if it evolves to have Vannifar as its central pillar it will probably diverge, just like the Melira Chord lists diverged from Melira-Pod lists back in the day.
Check.
(just as a note, the Bant version of Kiki Chord is really good atm)
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
If we play Ranger of Eos, Torch Courier can give Vannifar haste if need be.
On the other hand, if we go with Hippocamp then Sun Titan and Felidar Guardian/Resto can go off from a 1-drop without renegade rallier:
1-drop to scryb ranger
Scryb ranger to Exarch
Exarch to Hippocamp
Hippocamp to Conscripts
Conscripts to Titan, return Exarch
Exarch to Felidar Guardian/Resto, flicker Sun Titan, return Exarch
Flicker creature to Kiki
And requires 1 less forest as well.
As far as flicker creatures, I kinda assumed we'd want a few. I don't know what the split between Felidar or Resto should be. Resto is a better beater, but Felidar has some corner case scenarios being able to flicker a land.
But Renegade Rallier is an actually good card so I would always play it (two off, so the chance of drawing both of them gets reduced).
Just looked through the cardbase to find some good one drop creatures to grab via Ranger (to have at least one good card besides the Witch to get any ommphf out of him).
The decent ones are basically. Mistcutter Hydra, Mikaeus, Lightning Serpent (as an Haste Trample finisher) and Figure of Destiny.
From those ones, I would only play Mikaeus and Mistcutter, cause the first one pumps the team and Mistcutter is good vs Control (cause it cannot be countered and protection of blue (Snappy/Colonade)) and realistically speaking, only Mikaeus is really playable.
So, for me, the Ranger package would be basically: Ranger of Eos, Seedcradle Witch and Mikaeus, the Lunarch, the first two for the set-up chain with 4 mana and Mikaeus so that we can actually tutor a decent creature with Ranger of Eos, if we do not have Vannifar.
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
As they say, the beauty is eye of the beholder.
I see him as cute lill' guy who is charging up to his real power level. Just waiting in the deck until Nappa asks the most important question.
Running Ranger adds 2 cards (Ranger + Witch, you already have enough one drops so no need to add Teardrop Kami) for the possibility to basically always combo off, doesn't sound that bad to me tbh. Heck, Witch on it's own is decent enough, cause it can pump your attacking creature.
I will be considering that. I actually am pondering about just dropping Kitchen Finks and go all in with the Combo and Silver bullets.
Also, how much do you know about the current Modern meta? Cause it seems to me that you are basically stuck in the 2015 metagame, where things like Slaughter Games, Revoker and other (crappy) cards got played
Is my perspective slightly date? Absolutely. I've out sourced the knowledge of the meta to the other members of my play group and they are bringing me back up to speed. And we did do a little thinking about the Redcap and I think that the Deputy of Detention might actually be a proper option to bring from the Sideboard straight into the Main Deck.
(just as a note, the Bant version of Kiki Chord is really good atm)
Greetings,
Kathal
I'll check it out.
My attitude towards deck creation and tuning, unless it is Standard, is that the deck that I am building and playing with can always made better, but it probably does have some good ideas, especially if it has a green tutor card... Which is every deck I have played outside of Standard now that I think about it.
Hi guys, I've been following this thread for a while now, and, since I'm really interested in this archetype, I want to share some thoughts.
The decklist I'm testing is pretty similar to the one at the top of the discussion, with some minor changes. All the lists I saw before this one were pretty much combo-oriented only, I believe this concept of Kiki/Vannifar is more interesting as it's something more similar to the current Kiki Chords, some sort of toolbox deck with a combo finisher. In this perspective, I believe that Rhythm of the Wild is a great addition to the deck, not only beacuse it enables the T3 combo, but also beacuse it gives some backup to the "midrange" potential of the deck.
What do you guys think of Eldritch Evolution? Do you believe that it can fit somehow in this variant? I'm currently testing and I'm unsure wether it can be useful or not.
I think this deck will actually be viable. Vannifar is Bolt-proof and, courtesy of Chord, produces a Twin-like effect on opponents who want to use their mana. This creates artificial tempo advantages which the Vannifar player can use to just create pressure. The basic Chord toolbox shell is also viable in itself (see Cragenwick decks most recently), which gives me further confidence in her success.
As for names, I wouldn't get too cute with it. This deck will almost certainly be called Vannifar Pod if it makes it big, or something to that effect.
What do you guys think of Eldritch Evolution? Do you believe that it can fit somehow in this variant? I'm currently testing and I'm unsure wether it can be useful or not.
Eldritch Evolution is, as I seem to be repeating, an option. It has potential. It would be competing with Chord of Calling and not Prime Speaker Vannifar.
It had not the repeatability of Vannifar which places on the same approach as Chord. Now between Chord and Evolution I prefer Chord simply because we don't have to have the right creature on board and because it is an instant which is huge because of all thr shenanigans that we can do when pur opponent passes the turn. What Evolution has to defend itself is its cost, it will always be easier to cast at least in the terms of mana.
But Evolution is on the list it has some potential.
I think this deck will actually be viable. Vannifar is Bolt-proof and, courtesy of Chord, produces a Twin-like effect on opponents who want to use their mana. This creates artificial tempo advantages which the Vannifar player can use to just create pressure. The basic Chord toolbox shell is also viable in itself (see Cragenwick decks most recently), which gives me further confidence in her success
The former is kinda what I'm after in designing the deck, but I do see the latter as a viable option aswell.
As for names, I wouldn't get too cute with it. This deck will almost certainly be called Vannifar Pod if it makes it big, or something to that effect.
I'm not trying to be too cute, just a bit. The People's Pod, maybe?
Also freaking SGears joins the thread, suddenly the people from I read about from, oh so many years ago, are joining in.
Ooo didnt know this was here I've been looking all over for people to talk about this deck with
I have 3 different lists that I am interested in playing, but the core 53-54 cards are the same in all 3, just with a few tweaks. Here's a few things that I haven't seen mentioned on this page:
1. Hall of the Bandit Lord really excites me.. The deck can support a non-green source or 2, and the ability to go T1 Bop, T2 Hall (or even T1 Hall, T2 Bop) into T3 Vannifar win is excellent. U dont want multiples, but I think 1 looks good on paper at least.
2. Have you guys been and checked out the deck-tech at MTGGoldfish. Some madman came up with this line:
Deceiver and Vannifar in play. Sac Deceiver, get Breaching Hippocamp, untap pod. Sac Hippo for Zealous Conscripts. Sac Conscripts for Sun Titan, return Deceiver. Sac deceiver get resto, flicker titan, get back deceiver, untap pod. Sac Resto get kiki, combo on Deceiver.
Once you add Hippo, you can also combo from any 2x 3 drops, OR a finks. Sac Finks, get hippo, sac finks again, get resto flicker hippo, sac hippo get kiki.
I don't know if this is good enough or not, but adding Conscripts (which is a decent card), Sun Titan (very good card) and Hippo (very bad card) opens up a tonne of combo options.
3. I think Spellskite is better than Shalai. We have a lot more 4-drops than before. We need to cut a few.
4. If you don't run a 2nd Kiki, Reveillark should be considered. Getting back Kiki+Deceiver sounds ok
Sorry if I'm repeating something here that's already been said. Very excited to play this deck again
The problem with that line is: You are forced to play Hippo (garbage card on its own), Conscripts (decent) and Sun Titan (so darn expensive). Or you play Ranger of Eos + Seedcradle Witch and you can also combo off from any 2 or 3 drop as long as you have 4 mana available. However, Witch is not as garbage as Hippo (cause it does something outside a possible combo turn) and Ranger is decent (you really would want to play a decent 1 drop with him, so that you can tutor up two decent cards (Witch + Mikaeus, the Lunarch)).
Biggest difference is: You lower your curve by playing not playing lategame exclusive cards, which is something I currently rate higher than the raw power of Sun Titan (cause I would only play that package IF I would want Sun Titan in the deck and I would only play him if I need a super grindy tool + play Evolution).
Spellskite has a different job than Shalai, Shalai is a win con on her own (being able to pump your team) while also protecting Vannifar, so I rate her way higher than Spellskite.
Would play the second Kiki above Lark.
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
This build aims to consistently and quickly combo off with Vannifar, at the cost of losing some of its midrange game. Ideally, this should shore up my anti-aggro game. Opponents who don't kill Vannifar before she can get going quickly regret not killing her, as I combo off or search for combo protection. This leads to awkward decisions if opponents' only removal spells are Bolts and "Shocks" (e.g. Collective Brutality, Kolaghan's Command, Electrolyze, early Walking Ballista). It's possible that killing Scryb Ranger mid-combo is the best target, as killing Kiki-Jiki leaves me with the ability to combo off again next turn with the turn-Exarch-into-Restoration Gearsmith chain.
Because my aim is to quickly combo off--opponents not killing Vannifar are signs that they may not have removal, and I believe we should punish those players as quickly and harshly as possible--I've left in only the best hate bears. Hate permanents are now common enough in Game 1 that I've put Deputy of Detention in the maindeck. Knight of Autumn has been a barely-good-enough Swiss army knife. Scavenging Ooze is a graveyard-hating bear that can get enormous. Magus of the Moon sometimes harms my plan, but I can still combo off with the 1-drop chain as long as I don't use up my land drop for the turn until after Scryb Ranger bounces a Forest, and it's very powerful against some decks and starts.
Losing singletons pre-combo has occasionally been troublesome, but those slow down my combo at worst--though, occasionally, the loss of turns has cost me the game against faster decks. Note that a Scryb Ranger in play can also be turned into the combo in 1 turn, and Phantasmal Image enables the 2-drop and 1-drop chain without Scryb Ranger.
This deck's game against midrange decks is still surprisingly good despite dropping every creature that leaves behind a body when it dies except Glen Elendra Archmage.
The Chord-EEvo split is a concession to increase speed. Chord is still likely the better tutor--I once comboed off with Vannifar and Chord on X = 1 and another time with Vannifar and Chord on X = 2, with no other avenues to victory by combo at the time. But Chord is slow, and EEvo is starting to win its fair share of games.
I'm still not sure whether I should keep Ranger of Eos and Seedcradle Witch. I've only comboed off with the Dryad Arbor-into-Seedcradle Witch once successfully, and I've never comboed off successfully with the 3-drop chain (that includes Ranger of Eos). I could have comboed off another time with the Dryad Arbor chain if I didn't lose Dryad Arbor early-game because I had to play it as an early land drop. Yes, Dryad Arbor ends up in my opening hand far too often, which is why I need excellent reasons to play that card. Worryingly, Seedcradle Witch has contributed to more wins than I've comboed off with it (threatens to get creatures out of Bolt range, pumps creatures, untaps Kiki-Jiki). I don't think putting Teardrop Kami in this deck is worth it, even though it can effectively block my opponent's best attacker once.
Restoration Gearsmith is a cheaper way to enable the 2-drop chain than anything involving Seedcradle Witch. It leaves Exarch vulnerable to counterspells, though. I recall seeing Entomber Exarch in pre-ban Twin Pod decks without really knowing why, and upon finding that there are no cheaper ways to combo off from a 2-drop that don't involve Ranger of Eos, I now know why. Restoration Gearsmith is fatter and easier to hardcast than Entomber Exarch, though.
Torch Courier has been surprisingly good. I tried Generator Servant in its slot before in an attempt to grant Haste to Vannifar and improve my curve, but then I ran into situations like tapping out completely for Chord for Vannifar. Torch Courier performs the best in such corner cases due to not needing mana or tapping in order to give a cheated-in Vannifar Haste, and Vannifar only needs Haste once in order to win by OHKO. Being a 1-mana Haste granter has also been pretty good in situations where Chording it in instead is an option. And yes, I've comboed off on Turn 3 before.
I should probably tilt my sideboard even more towards improving my match-up against decks that are faster than me (the ones that outraced me fairly consistently in testing include UR Phoenix, Druid Vizier Evolution, and Gx Tron, but I'm sure more such decks exist).
In testing, though, this deck has been creaming Humans. Humans often can't quite get a fast enough start, as Vannifar can combo off from pretty meager board states, so I'm willing to lose a lot of creatures pre-combo. Kitesail Freebooter often grabs nothing against this deck. While Meddling Mage is annoying, Deputy of Detention has its number...although they've used Phantasmal Image to copy my Deputy a bunch of times before. I've also ended up hitting the Kiki-Jiki & Knight of Autumn "combo" against them multiple times while being unable to fully combo off thanks to opposing Meddling Mages on Vannifar and Chord, which leads to substantial life gain and ability to trade with their smaller dudes. Seedcradle Witch and Minamo have untapped Kiki-Jiki in those cases, letting me recover fairly quickly. Reflector Mage has just tended to slow me down instead of actually buying enough time for Humans to get through. Magus of the Moon cripples their mana base and therefore slows down their game plan fairly substantially.
If I want to give this deck maindeck removal, I'd much rather use Incubation // Incongruity than Path to Exile. Incubation digs for the combo when my focus isn't to get removal, and Incongruity hits hate bears just fine.
If we play Ranger of Eos, Torch Courier can give Vannifar haste if need be.
On the other hand, if we go with Hippocamp then Sun Titan and Felidar Guardian/Resto can go off from a 1-drop without renegade rallier:
1-drop to scryb ranger
Scryb ranger to Exarch
Exarch to Hippocamp
Hippocamp to Conscripts
Conscripts to Titan, return Exarch
Exarch to Felidar Guardian/Resto, flicker Sun Titan, return Exarch
Flicker creature to Kiki
And requires 1 less forest as well.
As far as flicker creatures, I kinda assumed we'd want a few. I don't know what the split between Felidar or Resto should be. Resto is a better beater, but Felidar has some corner case scenarios being able to flicker a land.
I agree with Kathal--the big-drops version of the chain consumes too many deck slots compared to sticking in just one Renegade Rallier and calling it a day. Worse, both chains are still vulnerable to graveyard hate (Scavenging Ooze/Remorseful Cleric/Relic of Progenitus). I'm still tweaking my deck list, mainly in the direction of making it more explosive and more consistent at comboing off (at the cost of silver bullets and its midrange game).
But Renegade Rallier is an actually good card so I would always play it (two off, so the chance of drawing both of them gets reduced).
Just looked through the cardbase to find some good one drop creatures to grab via Ranger (to have at least one good card besides the Witch to get any ommphf out of him).
The decent ones are basically. Mistcutter Hydra, Mikaeus, Lightning Serpent (as an Haste Trample finisher) and Figure of Destiny.
From those ones, I would only play Mikaeus and Mistcutter, cause the first one pumps the team and Mistcutter is good vs Control (cause it cannot be countered and protection of blue (Snappy/Colonade)) and realistically speaking, only Mikaeus is really playable.
So, for me, the Ranger package would be basically: Ranger of Eos, Seedcradle Witch and Mikaeus, the Lunarch, the first two for the set-up chain with 4 mana and Mikaeus so that we can actually tutor a decent creature with Ranger of Eos, if we do not have Vannifar.
Greetings,
Kathal
IMO, this deck cannot afford the slot for a grindy 0-1-drop to search with Ranger of Eos. I'm already considering dropping Ranger of Eos some days, as I've never successfully comboed off with the sole 3-drop chain. Walking Ballista is an underrated grindy/removal tutor target for Ranger, though.
What do you guys think of Eldritch Evolution? Do you believe that it can fit somehow in this variant? I'm currently testing and I'm unsure wether it can be useful or not.
Yes, I definitely believe it fits. Grindier versions can opt to sac Voice of Resurgence or Persist dudes to it, while explosive versions like mine just want the speed boost. There are so many aggro decks in the meta right now that speed boosts are great.
I think this deck will actually be viable. Vannifar is Bolt-proof and, courtesy of Chord, produces a Twin-like effect on opponents who want to use their mana. This creates artificial tempo advantages which the Vannifar player can use to just create pressure. The basic Chord toolbox shell is also viable in itself (see Cragenwick decks most recently), which gives me further confidence in her success.
As for names, I wouldn't get too cute with it. This deck will almost certainly be called Vannifar Pod if it makes it big, or something to that effect.
Vannifar's Twin-like effect only starts working when you can cast Chord for X = 4 (i.e. that's pretty slow). If you hold up Chord mana/Convoke, you often lose tempo doing so if you have enough creatures. The real Twin-like effect theoretically starts when you hit Restoration Angel/3-mana untapper mana and you're one away from Kiki-Jiki mana, but I don't really know how much opponents respect that.
I think this deck's viability will stem from its ability to combo off fast enough (I've been able to race KCI in testing), tutor enough hate and anti-hate to fend off some troublesome decks pre-board (e.g. Burn), and its insane late-game even when partially hosed (see my experience against Humans above for more details).
Ooo didnt know this was here I've been looking all over for people to talk about this deck with
I have 3 different lists that I am interested in playing, but the core 53-54 cards are the same in all 3, just with a few tweaks. Here's a few things that I haven't seen mentioned on this page:
1. Hall of the Bandit Lord really excites me.. The deck can support a non-green source or 2, and the ability to go T1 Bop, T2 Hall (or even T1 Hall, T2 Bop) into T3 Vannifar win is excellent. U dont want multiples, but I think 1 looks good on paper at least.
2. Have you guys been and checked out the deck-tech at MTGGoldfish. Some madman came up with this line:
Deceiver and Vannifar in play. Sac Deceiver, get Breaching Hippocamp, untap pod. Sac Hippo for Zealous Conscripts. Sac Conscripts for Sun Titan, return Deceiver. Sac deceiver get resto, flicker titan, get back deceiver, untap pod. Sac Resto get kiki, combo on Deceiver.
Once you add Hippo, you can also combo from any 2x 3 drops, OR a finks. Sac Finks, get hippo, sac finks again, get resto flicker hippo, sac hippo get kiki.
I don't know if this is good enough or not, but adding Conscripts (which is a decent card), Sun Titan (very good card) and Hippo (very bad card) opens up a tonne of combo options.
3. I think Spellskite is better than Shalai. We have a lot more 4-drops than before. We need to cut a few.
4. If you don't run a 2nd Kiki, Reveillark should be considered. Getting back Kiki+Deceiver sounds ok
Sorry if I'm repeating something here that's already been said. Very excited to play this deck again
Hall of the Bandit Lord can't tap for mana without ripping out 3 life, so it's out for me. Being an ETB tapped land kills it even further for me. Hanweir Battlements doesn't harm your mana base as much and randomly wins the occasional game.
See above for my opinion on the big dudes chain.
I'd rather run both Spellskite and Shalai in this meta. Turning a 1-drop into combo protection in 1 turn is sweet as heck, but you need Shalai against Burn and Kolaghan's Command, and Shalai is a beater and win con.
I'm a big fan of Kiki #2. I've still had the misfortune of double Kiki in hand multiple times in testing, but in at least one of those times, I hardcast Kiki thanks to Scryb Ranger's help and comboed off that turn.
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Welcome to The People's Pod deck tech (Name pending. Kiki-Pod People/Vannifar Pod/Vannifar Chord?). I started my Modern career with a cute little deck called Melira-Chord, but I quickly moved onwards to strongers. One evening on my way to the FNM there was this odd looking fellow hanging near the local gamestore. When I walked past him he whispered to me: "Hey kid, I heard you like Creature Combo decks?" I nodded my head and as he opened the left side of his trench coat he whispered: "May I intrest you with some stronger stuff?", revealing Birthing Pod, Restoration Angel, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and all other cards just hanging from the inside of his trench coat. And what can I say, I was hooked. For the next nearly three years I just kept on turning The Pod sideways over and over again. Now kids if a stranger offers you powerful and slightly broken Magic the Gathering cards... You take them! Those thing are expensive! You might understand that I was heartbroken when Pod was banned four years ago, so much so that I have not touched the format since, but the times... they indeed are a-changin'.
Now that the day's dose of humour is out of the way lets getto actual business.
What is this deck's battle plan?
This deck's wins by landing a Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and a untap outlet. Either a Deceiver Exarch, a Restoration Angel or a Zealous Conscripts. Everything else in the deck aims in getting you there as fast as possible and keeping you alive long enough to get you there.
How does it exactly get your opponents life to zero?
Here's an example of a winning board state.
You have Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker on the battle along with, for this example, Deceiver Exarch
You use Kiki's activated ability and make a token copy of the Exarch.
The token comes into play you target Kiki with its triggered ability and untap Kiki.
Now you again have an untapped Kiki and can repeat the process over and over again until you have enough Exarchs to kill your oppnent dead.
Alpha strike!
Why should I play this deck over other Creatures Toolbox decks?
Honestly, at the moment, I don't know for obvious reasons, but I will be updating my play group's and anybody else's who wants to contribute experiences with it.
The philosophy of the deck and how to build your very own Kiki-Pod:
What is Kiki-Pod? Kiki-Pod is a deck with a very powerful engine that leads to a game ending combo. I know that's a bit vague, but that is because the deck kind of is. That is because there are several different ways to build the deck. Illustrating what I mean by that might be easier through examples. So lets do just that. Here are four distinct lists which have shown promise:
The first one is a pure combo oriented list which if given the chance to untap with Vannifar right then and there.
2 Breeding Pool
3 Forest
2 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
2 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
4 Wooded Foothills
Creatures (29)
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Noble Hierarch
2 Coiling Oracle
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
3 Bounding Krasis
1 Eternal Witness
1 Magus of the Moon
2 Tireless Tracker
2 Breaching Hippocamp
4 Prime Speaker Vannifar
2 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Zealous Conscripts
1 Woodland Bellower
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Sorceries (4)
2 Postmortem Lunge
2 Eldritch Evolution
Instants (3)
3 Chord of Calling
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Abrade
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Blood Moon
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Avalanche Riders
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Thragtusk
2 Breeding Pool
3 Forest
1 Gavony Township
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
Creatures (32)
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Noble Hierarch
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Voice of Resurgence
2 Wall of Roots
1 Deceiver Exarch
1 Eternal Witness
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Knight of Autumn
1 Renegade Rallier
2 Restoration Angel
1 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
4 Prime Speaker Vannifar
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
3 Chord of Calling
Enchantments (3)
3 Rhythm of the Wild
1 Avalanche Riders
3 Damping Sphere
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
2 Fiery Justice
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Lone Missionary
1 Magus of the Moon
2 Path to Exile
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Remorseful Cleric
2 Breeding Pool
3 Forest
2 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
2 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
4 Wooded Foothills
Creatures (31)
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Spellskite
1 Wall of Roots
3 Bounding Krasis
1 Deputy of Detention
1 Eternal Witness
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Tireless Tracker
2 Breaching Hippocamp
4 Prime Speaker Vannifar
1 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
2 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Woodland Bellower
1 Zealous Conscripts
3 Eldritch Evolution
Instants (3)
3 Chord of Calling
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Tireless Tracker
2 Abrade
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Thragtusk
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1x Breeding Pool
1x Fire-Lit Thicket
2x Forest
1x Gavony Township
3x Grove of the Burnwillows
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Island
2x Misty Rainforest
1x Plains
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Stomping Ground
1x Temple Garden
3x Windswept Heath
3x Wooded Foothills
Creature (31)
3x Birds of Paradise
3x Noble Hierarch
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Scryb Ranger
1x Spellskite
1x Voice of Resurgence
2x Wall of Roots
1x Deceiver Exarch
1x Deputy of Detention
1x Eternal Witness
3x Kitchen Finks
1x Knight of Autumn
1x Renegade Rallier
1x Glen Elendra Archmage
3x Prime Speaker Vannifar
1x Purphoros, God of the Forge
2x Restoration Angel
1x Shalai, Voice of Plenty
2x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1x Sky Hussar
3x Chord of Calling
Enchantment (3)
3x Rhythm of the Wild
Sorcery (1)
1x Eldritch Evolution
2x Path to Exile
1x Kataki, War's Wage
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Remorseful Cleric
1x Selfless Spirit
1x Eidolon of Rhetoric
1x Fulminator Mage
1x Izzet Staticaster
1x Tireless Tracker
1x Avalanche Riders
1x Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
1x Reveillark
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
Here are all the spell cards that are shared between all the deck:
Shared Cards
3-4x Birds of Paradise
3-4x Noble Hierarch
1-2x Scavenging Ooze
1x Scryb Ranger
3-4x Prime Speaker Vannifar
1-2x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
3x Chord of Calling
That means that only about fifteen cards at the least that are locked in their slots and twenty cards at the most. In addition you will want to play 22 to 23 lands. This leaves us about twenty slots to play around with. With which to tune our decks to fit the meta game. The us start with cards that have similar functions to each other. I will highlight cards pairs that are must include one and which are optional.
Effective Reprints
For these cards the amounts are what the above lists, and most others, play at maximum of.
The Mana Dorks
2x Wall of Roots
Some decks choose to augment their mana generation with trusty old Wall of Roots.
The Untappers
These are the cards that you want to use to untap Vannifar so that you can power your Pod chains and with which you can untap Kiki-Jiki to generate an arbitrary amount of tokens with which to your opponent with.
3x Bounding Krasis
1x Deceiver Exarch
1x Village Bell-ringer
Krasis, Exarch and Bell-ringer are your untappers at the 3 CMC slot. You will want at least one of them in any Pod list.
2x Breaching Hippocamp
2x Restoration Angel
At 4 CMC our untappers are Hippocamps and Restoration Angels. All the lists play combination of two to three of these.
1x Zealous Conscripts
1x Sky Hussar
And then we get to the 5 CMC slot. All the lists play only up to one of either of these. Value lists don't even play a single one of them since they are not really worth the five mana that are required to cast them.
The Recursion
1x Eternal Witness
1x Renegade Rallier
When your opponent Thoughtseizes you for a critical combo piece you will want to get it back into your hand or with Rallier straight into the battlefield. Additionally Rallier can be used alongside Scryb Ranger to chain into 4 CMC creatures with Vannifar
Combo Protection
1x Shalai, Voice of Plenty
1x Spellskite
Shalai and Spellskite are what you want to protect your creatures with from Bolts, Paths and whatever else your opponent aims to aim at them. Spellskite is the cheaper option and can be used against Infect and if you have enough U also against Burn effectively. Shalai on the other hand is much better against Burn but can't really deal with Infect. On the other hand it is very good when the game turns into a grind thanks to its activated ability.
The Tutor
1-3x Eldritch Evolution
Some people include Eldritch Evolution as a complimentary tutor. Its strength being that it is a lot cheaper compared to Chord.
Besides these cards there are dozens of different options that the deck could run, from Coiling Oracle to Rhythmn of thr Wilds and Glen Elendra Archmages.
Now there are the essential cards and card types what you need to build your Kiki-Pod deck. With this information let analyze SquaChief's list.
It has 23 lands, 20 cards that are "must includes", 13 of alternate cards and four complimentary ones.
Card choices:
Under construction
Like all other Creature Toolbox decks Kiki-Pod People stands on shoulders of its mana dorks. The main culprits are:
Birds of Paradise:What can I say, really. In a vacuum Birds is the best mana dork there is. It creates all the colours and it costs just a single G. It comes down the very first turn and on the next one you have access to 50% than your opponent. Also it, in a pinch, does block flyers. If you are not running four birds in your list you have to answer one important, yet simple, question: "Why?"
Noble Hierarch: Also known by her street name Bant Bird. She doesn't fly nor does she provide R or B mana, but if the game turns into a grindfest she does provide something very valuable, Exalted. Exalted is great if you, for certainty know that were you to Chain to Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and a Deceiver Exarch you would be unable to protect them with your opponent probably just killing Kiki and leaving you with a Exarch on board for all of your troubles in the end. Although it can be argued that this much less of a problem with Vannifar compared to the Notorious POD since you won't need to pay two, four, six or even eight life to Chain all the way to Kiki.
Wall of Roots:Lets start with the weaknesses that Wall of Roots has. I can only generate G, it can only do it five times without outside assistance and it costs twice as much as Birds and Noble does. And here are reasons why you want to play it. It can produce two G mana between your untap steps and it doesn't need to tap itself to do that. That means you can use it to ramp your stuff on your turn and cast instants on your opponent's turn. And here's when it become truly broken, if that instant spell is a Chord of Calling the Wall of Roots can effectively produce three mana between your untap steps since you can in addition tap it to contribute to Chord's Convoke cost. Wall of Roots is one of the best, if not the best, mana dorks when it comes to producing explosive amounts of mana. Also it has a really thicc rear end and can block a lot of your opponent's creatures for days.
Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more!
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker:My Main Man Kiki-Jiki, the hammer that pounds the metaphorical nails into out opponents. Since he has haste and has the ability to create copies of our other creatures, as long as you have a creature in play that either blinks or untaps anoter creature you can create an arbitarily large army of tokens to overwhelm your opponents' defences and kill them. Now his negative aspects his quite high CMC of five, although you rarely cast him, and that since he has a thoughness of two he literaly dies to every removal in the format besides Gut Shot and Fatal Push. Now this means that if you are not sure that you opponent doesn't have any removal, nor are forced to Combo off that very moment you probably will want to protect him. Good options are Shalai, Voice of Plenty, Spellskite or just holding a Negate or a Apostle's Blessing in your hand.
Deceiver Exarch:The Exarch is the cheapest of our finishers at 3 CMC. It is also a centerpiece of most of our Pod Chains and can be a great combat trick due to having Flash, its ability to tap and untap permanents and its higher than average toughness compared to its mana cost.
Restoration Angel:The Angel, or as some call her Resto, is our finisher piece at 4 CMC. She used to be a more central part back during the days of the Notorious POD, with blinking creatures with ETB triggers or saving them from targeted removal spells. Now the decks that are being brewed lean more towards assembling the combo as fast as possible, but one could still consider build a more Midrange deck with a combo finisher which would put Resto back in the spotlight as a three to four of instead of the one or two of that decks are currently running.
Zealous Conscripts: The sun might be setting on Zealous Conscripts. They are our finisher at the 5 CMC and and integral part of two of our Pod chains. But his mana cost makes him a bit akward piece to hardcast from your hand and its ETB trigger is not always that useful. It can have some good, sometimes even extremely explosive, results. Have you ever podded you opponents Siege Rhino, or better yet, taken advatage of your opponents foolishness and "borrowed" their Karn Liberated... at 14 Loyalty. I have, it was fun.
Breaching Hippocamp:Hippocamp is the new kid on the block. It shares the 4 CMC slot with Restoration Angel and one could argue that it might be a good idea to just ditch Ol' Resto and W mana all together and smooth out our mana and the self inflicted pain that running six to eight shocklands brings us. Plus Hippocamp improves out chaining since it merely untaps the target instead of blinking it like Resto does, which can be used to reset Vannifar for further chaining.
Sky Hussar:
The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
Prime Speaker Vannifar: Vannifar's strength is that she can tutor up multiple creatures during a single turn and that she is a creature. Also her activated ability is in a completely different league than the one Birthing Pod was sporting. There were situations in which we just couldn't Pod off due to not having enough mana and/or paying the life cost would have meant that we would end up in burn range. Now her weaknesses are that she needs to sacrifice a creature for each tutor, so you won't be gaining creature advantage from her and that she is a creature. Yes being a creature is both a strength and a weakness, it all depends on the game state.
Being a creature means that she is vulnerable to creature removal (I know blah blah dies to removal), but this is compared to the Notorious POD, which being an artifact meant that a lot of decks did not run removal for it main deck. Also she suffers from summoning sickness, which means that without help, which granted does exist, can't combo off the turn she is cast.
Now, why is being a creature a positive? Because you can Chord her when you opponent passes the turn and go off on your own turn making vulnerable only to instant speed removal. Also you can use for example Shalai, Voice of Plenty and other creature protection to shield her, which are much more prevalent than artifact protection.
Chord of Calling: Chord is of our tutors actually the only one that nets card advantage, it can be cast at instant speed and though it is and expensive card you can use your creatures to pay for its casting cost. Additionally you are not bound to tutor only targets that based on the creatures you have in play unlike with Vannifar and Evolution, but by the amount of mana you have.
Eldritch Evolution: Evolution is the illegal drag racing car of our tutors. You get it online turns earlier than Vannifar and Chord, it costs a fixed amount of mana and if you are lucky enough you get to draw and cast it again, but you need a creature to cast it and the creatures you have in play determine what you can tutor for. Its strength is that it is cheap to cast and you get the results a lot quicker compared to Vannifar and chord, but since you can't use it multiple times a turn it isn't as easy to set up the combo when compared to Vannifar. And since it is a sorcery it doesn't have the same kind of surprise element as Chord has.
The Backup
How many are there? There's a lot of them, sire.
This is where each deck starts to apply their own spice to the brew. This is where you start making meaningful choices for your deck. Do you want to be almost solely a combo oriented deck? Or do you go more of a slightly Midrange path?
These are the cards that create the board states from which to Pod off to Kiki-Jiki and a untapper.
Glen Elendra Archamage:
Murderous Redcap:
Phantasmal Image:
Purphoros, God of the Forge:
Renegade Rallier:
Restoration Gearsmith:
Scryb Ranger:
Back in the day Kiki-Pod decks were essentially Midrange decks that could Pod off to victory from several of theit common board states. I have no idea if it is still a viable strategy, only time and testing will tell, but if you have to know my Gut Shot feeling I would say that focusing on the combo is probably a better option since the format has gotten a lot quicker.
Coiling Oracle:
Courser of Kruphix:
Domri, Chaos Bringer:
Eternal Witness:
Kitchen Finks:
Militia Bugler:
Reveillark:
Rhythm of the Wild:
Shalai, Voice of Plenty:
Sigarda, Host of Herons:
Thragtusk:
Thrun, the Last Troll:
Tireless Tracker:
Voice of Resurgence:
Ranger of Eos:
Seedcradle Witch:
Dryad Arbor:
Torch Courier:
Mikaeus, the Lunarch:
Mistcutter Hydra:
Figure of Destiny:
Walking Ballista:
If the previous was the seasoning that you apply to the deck this is where you apply the metaphorical salt and pepper and other
accoutrements. They are completely dependent on your meta game, but I will list the options that you might want to run. Some will make the main board and some are relegated to the sideboard, but they are all creatures so they can all be tutored up with our tutors.
Aven Mindcensor:
Avalanche Riders:
Deputy of Detention:
Eidolon of Rhetoric:
Fulminator Mage:
Gaddock Teeq:
Grand Abolisher:
Izzet Staticaster:
Kataki, War's Wage:
Knight of Autumn:
Knight of the Reliquary:
Lavinia, Azorius Renegade:
Linvala, Keeper of Silence:
Magus of the Moon:
Melira, Sylvok Outcast:
Obstinate Baloth:
Qasali Pridemage:
Remorseful Cleric:
Scavenging Ooze:
Selfless Spirit:
Spellskite:
The Fetches:
The Shocks:
The Basics:
The Filters:
Gavony Township:
Hall of the Bandit Lord:
Hanweir Battlements:
Kessig Wolf Run:
Minamo, School at Water's Edge
These are basically the cards that I would most often relegate to the sideboard and can't be searched with our tutors The list will be probably always be missing suggestion, so if you come up with something interesting give me a holler.
Ancient Grudge:
Apostle's Blessing:
Damping Sphere:
Fiery Justice:
Negate:
Path to Exile:
Stony Silence:
Surgical Extraction:
I will be listing complementary and alternate attack paths here, evetually.
Devoted Druid:
Vizier of Rememdies:
The Pod Chains:
(I don't really know what would the proper name since we don't technically run Pod, but people seem to be refering to them as Pod Chains still.)
All these chains expect you to have a Prime Speaker Vannifar on board and online.
-Untap Vannifar with the Exarch trigger
-Pod the one drop into a Phantasmal Image
-Copy the Exarch with the Image
-Untap Vannifar with copied Exarch trigger
-Pod the Image that copied Exarch into a Restoration Angel
-Blink the Exarch with the Angel trigger
-Untap Vannifar with the Exarch trigger
-Pod the Angel into a Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
-Combo off
-Bounce a Forest and untap Vannifar
-Pod Scryb Ranger into a Renegade Rallier
-Return the Scryb Ranger into play with Rallier's Revolt trigger
-Bounce a Forest and Untap Vannifar
-Pod the Scryb Ranger into a Deceiver Exarch
-Untap Vannifar with the Exarch trigger
-Pod the Rallier into a Restoration Angel
-Blink the Exarch with the Angel trigger
-Untap Vannifar with the Exarch trigger
-Pod the Angel into a Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
-Combo off
-Untap Vannifar with the Exarch trigger
-Pod the three-drop into a Restoration Angel
-Blink the Exarch with the Angel trigger
-Untap Vannifar with the Exarch trigger
-Pod the Angel into a Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
-Combo off
-Untap Vannifar with the Exarch trigger
-Pod the four-drop into Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
-Combo off
-Untap Vannifar with the Conscripts trigger
-Pod the three-drop into a Restoration Angel
-Blink Conscripts with the Angel trigger
-Untap Vannifar with the Conscripts trigger
-Pod the Angel into Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
-Combo off
Some more specific board states from which you can Pod off from:
-Copy Deceiver Exarch with the Image
-Untap Vannifar with the copied Exarch's trigger
-Pod the copied Exarch's into Restoration Angel
-Blink the Exarch with the Angel trigger
-Untap Vannifar with the Exarch's trigger
-Pod the Angel into Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
-Combo off
-The Archmage's/Redcap's Persist triggers
-The Archmage/Redcap returns to play
-Vannifar's activated ability resolves. Search for Zealous Conscripts
-Untap Vannifar with the Conscripts trigger
-Pod the Archmage/Archmage into Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
-Combo off
-Search for Seedcradle Witch (and a one-drop you might need)
-Play the Witch
-Use the Witch's activated ability and untap Vannifar
-Pod the Witch into Scryb Ranger
-Pod Scryb Ranger into a Renegade Rallier
-Return the Scryb Ranger into play with Rallier's Revolt trigger
-Bounce a Forest and untap Vannifar
-Pod the Ranger into Deceiver Exarch
-Untap Vannifar with Exarch's trigger
-Pod Ranger into Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
-Combo off
-Play, fetch or already have Dryad Arbor on board
-Pod Arbor into a Seedcradle Witch
-Untap Vannifar with the Witch's activated ability
-Pod the Witch into a Scryb Ranger
-Bounce a Forest and untap Vannifar
-Pod the Scryb Ranger into a Deceiver Exarch
-Untap Vannifar with the Exarch trigger
-Pod the Rallier into a Restoration Angel
-Blink the Exarch with the Angel trigger
-Untap Vannifar with the Exarch trigger
-Pod the Angel into a Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
-Combo off
-Pod the two-drop into a Deceiver Exarch
-Untap Vannifar with the Exarch trigger
-Pod the Exarch into a Restoration Gearsmith
-Cast the Exarch and untap Vannifar with the Exarch's comes into play trigger
-Pod the Gearsmith into a Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
-Combo off
For this chain to function your deck needs to have the following cards in it, but its beauty is that once you get up on a ladder you can ignore everything below it. There are two different paths and I will note when they diverge, but lets get on with the show:
0. Prime Speaker Vannifar
1. Fetch Land for a Dryad Arbor
2. Pod Arbor into a Seedcradle Witch
3. Untap Vannifar with the Witch and Pod the Witch into a Scryb Ranger
4. Untap Vannifar with the Ranger by returning a Forest and Pod the Ranger into a Bounding Krasis or a Deceiver Exarch and untap Vannifar with the ETB trigger.
5. Pod the Krasis/Exarch into a Breaching Hippocamp and untap Vannifar with the Hippocamp trigger
6. Pod the Hippocamp into a Sky Hussar or a Zealous Conscripts. The ETB trigger untaps Vannifar
7. Pod the Hussar/Conscripts into a Woodland Bellowe or a Sun Titan
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8a. With the Bellower Trigger fetch a 2nd Krasis from you deck. Untap Vannifar with the Krasis trigger
9a. Pod the Krasis into a 2nd Hippocamp. Untap Vannifar with the Hippocamp trigger.
10a. Pod the Hippocamp into a Kiki-Jiki. Copy the Bellower with Kiki-Jiki's activated ability.
11a. Fetch a 3rd Krasis. Untap Kiki-Jiki with Krasis's trigger.
12a. Combo off!
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8b. With the Sun Titan trigger return Exarch/Krasis to the battlefield. Untap Vannifar with the ETB trigger.
9b. Pod the Exarch/Krasis into a Restoration Angel. Blink the Sun Titan and return the Exarch/Krasis to the battlefield. Untap Vannifar with the ETB trigger.
10b. Pod the Restoration Angel into a Kiki-Jiki
11b. Combo off!
BUT! Let me warn you about Deceiver Exarch's
You have a tapped Prime Speaker Vannifar, a untapped Kiki-Jiki, Mirrorbreaker and a Deceiver Exarch in play:
-Use Kiki-Jiki's activated ability and target Exarch
-The Exarch's copy comes into play
-Target Vannifar with the Exarch's triggered ability
-Untap Vannifar
-Pod the Exarch's Copy into a Restoration Angel
-Target Kiki-Jiki with the Angel's triggered ability and Blink Kiki-Jiki
-Combo off
Now would this be important enough for it to receive its very own section? Because back in the day, yours truly, finished 9th in a PTQ because in the final round he faced against a Jund deck. We were in the third game. My opponent was holding a single mystery card. I think I had a Deceiver and a four drop on board at least. I drew a Pod. I was slightly ahead on board, but I decided to cast the Pod and Pod the four drop into a Kiki to close the match now and then. I created enough tokens to kill my opponent and then my opponent cast his Rakdos Charm. I walked right into his trap. After the match I did the math and if I had upgraded the Exarch into a Restoration Angel I would have won. Now since we do not play artifacts anymore the Charm's "Kill Us" mode is even more prevalent, since they won't be wasting it on the Birthing Pod.
Now here is my current deck list which by far is not finished.
1x Breeding Pool
1x Fire-Lit Thicket
1x Forest
1x Gavony Township
3x Grove of the Burnwillows
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Island
2x Misty Rainforest
1x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Steam Vents
1x Stomping Ground
1x Temple Garden
3x Windswept Heath
3x Wooded Foothills
Instant (4)
4x Chord of Calling
Enchantment (3)
3x Rhythm of the Wild
Creature (30)
3x Birds of Paradise
2x Deceiver Exarch
1x Deputy of Detention
1x Eternal Witness
1x Glen Elendra Archmage
2x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
2x Kitchen Finks
1x Knight of Autumn
1x Magus of the Moon
3x Noble Hierarch
2x Prime Speaker Vannifar
1x Purphoros, God of the Forge
1x Renegade Rallier
2x Restoration Angel
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Scryb Ranger
1x Shalai, Voice of Plenty
1x Sky Hussar
1x Spellskite
2x Wall of Roots
1x Avalanche Riders
1x Eidolon of Rhetoric
1x Fulminator Mage
1x Izzet Staticaster
1x Kataki, War's Wage
1x Linvala, Keeper of Silence
2x Path to Exile
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Remorseful Cleric
1x Reveillark
1x Selfless Spirit
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Prime Speaker Vannifar
2 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Restoration Angel
1 Deceiver Exarch
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Seedcradle Witch
1 Ranger of Eos
1 Renegade Rallier
1 Restoration Gearsmith
1 Eternal Witness
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
1 Spellskite
1 Torch Courier
1 Militia Bugler
1 Coiling Oracle
1 Knight of Autumn
1 Deputy of Detention
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Magus of the Moon
2 Chord of Calling
1 Eldritch Evolution
Lands
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Hanweir Battlements
1 Gavony Township
4 Windswept Heath
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
1 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Island
1 Avalanche Riders
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Negate
1 Path to Exile
2 Fiery Justice
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Noble Hierarch
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Spellskite
2 Voice of Resurgence
2 Wall of Roots
2 Renegade Rallier
2 Deceiver Exarch
1 Deputy of Detention
1 Eternal Witness
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Knight of Autumn
3 Prime Speaker Vannifar
2 Restoration Angel
1 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
2 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
3 Chord of Calling
2 Eldritch Evolution
Lands[23]
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Flooded Strand
2 Stomping Ground
2 Temple Garden
1 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Fire-Lit Thicket
1 Gavony Township
2 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Forest
1 Plains
2 Rhythm of the Wild
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Knight of Autumn
3 Path to Exile
1 Remorseful Cleric
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Thragtusk
PS Original message:
" So I'm finally, after three years in exile, returning to the Modern format. Can you guess why?
So my deck is almost ready, but I need some help figuring out the mana base. All advice would be welcome."
PSS Ten points to the person who figures the reference at the beginning.
Remember, I don't know *****. ...Oh chungus I forgot that the PG-13 rules are enforced.
The BoB versus Hierarch split is merely something that we are trying out at the moment with my play group.
Remember, I don't know *****. ...Oh chungus I forgot that the PG-13 rules are enforced.
Here`s a very good post a user named Lectrys made in the "Ravnica Allegiance Previews: Modern Discussion" Thread which probably interests you.
I think that one Rallier is enough since if it is in my hand and I have I mana dork on the battlefield I can Pod into (I think we might need to update our lexicon, but Vannify just doesn't have the same ring to it) a Scryb Ranger, Untap Vannifar, Pod the Ranger into a Deceiver Exarch and just cast the the Rallier, return something useful into my hand and then continue Poding from there.
Also Rhythm of the Wild is looking like really sweet card. Haste or +1/+1 counters on all the men and protection from counter spells.
Remember, I don't know *****. ...Oh chungus I forgot that the PG-13 rules are enforced.
A user named Lectrys, the very same Lectrys who was a staple member of the Kiki-Pod thread... I'm really glad he is brewing with Vannifar
Remember, I don't know *****. ...Oh chungus I forgot that the PG-13 rules are enforced.
I'm not a great fan of Rhythm of the Wild in this deck, mainly because it's not a creature and it therefore cannot be tutored for, tapped for Convoke, or fed to Vannifar. Unlike Domri, Chaos Bringer, it cannot dig for threats (but, also unlike Domri 2.0, it can enable a Turn 3 Vannifar-fueled combo).
Unlike with the slower-to-assemble-combos Kiki Actual Pre-Ban Pod, I'm no longer convinced Murderous Redcap or Zealous Conscripts are necessary; while I may give Redcap a pass if you keep Rhythm of the Wild, Conscripts only enables 4-drop Persist and double 4-drop chains along with comboing with Kiki-Jiki and kidnapping the occasional hate permanent for a hefty 5 cmc. I ditched Conscripts and Redcap early into developing my heavy Vannifar build to enable cheaper chains instead, and I haven't wanted these guys back.
I do like Magus of the Moon, though, and I've been trying to find room for that guy in my build. (I just keep enabling more combo chains and trying to increase the speed of my deck instead.)
Aw, thanks! I remember working out Kiki Pod decks when that deck type was just born, and that deck was a pretty fun ride. Birthing Pod feels faster and more resilient but less powerful than Vannifar. Being faster and more resilient are enough reasons to eat a ban, though.
By the way, I'm female.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Maybe here for a moment, until somebody is brave/good enough to write an actual primer and has enough time to maintain it.
We're just testing Rhythm of the Wild to see if it helps at all or not, the alternative being either Domri, Chaos Bringer or just to +2 Prime Speaker Vannifar and a Kitchen Finks or a Restoration Angel. The choice is basically dependent on how much control there is in my enviroment and what kind of control it is. If it turns out to be an endless sea of Draw-Go, I'll stick with the enchantment. If it is Supreme Verdicts, Wrath of Gods and Damnations for days, I'll go with the new Domri. But if neither manages to surface I'll just add some more redundancy and pack in a few more creatures.
Also I like to play one Redcap incase there is say a Phyrexian Revoker on the field and a Glen Elendra Archmage if I have a suspicion that my opponent is holding on to an answer for Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and the Zealous Conscripts is there so that I can Pod off the Redcap and off the Archmage with same assistance.
But all that is still in the testing phase.
You can thank the English language and my laziness for that, and I can add that it's nice that Finnish only has a pronoum for all the people.
Remember, I don't know *****. ...Oh chungus I forgot that the PG-13 rules are enforced.
Remember, I don't know *****. ...Oh chungus I forgot that the PG-13 rules are enforced.
If you change the ugly Kiki-Jiki card to the nice old one, I'm fine with it
Rhythm of the Wild allows the turn 3 kill, so I would only play it if the deck would need to go faster, so that you REALLY need the turn 3 kill. And even than you need two Forest in play to be able to pull it off:
0 floating, Pod, Bird
Pod Bird for Scyb Ranger
Untap Pod, Pod for Renegade Rallier - 1 Forest
Untap Pod, Pod Rallier for Resto blink Pod - 2 Forests
Pod enters with Riot again (Haste), Pod Scyb Ranger for Exarch, untap Pod
Pod Angel for Kiki-Jiki and win
Thanks to Rhythm you need 1 Forest less for that chain (since you can blink Vannifar and get the haste again from Riot).
Domri, Chaos Bringer is a REALLY good card in that shell and I would play two in the SB for basically every match-up which is remotely grindy or even include them in the MD, if the need for Rhythm drops down (I currently REALLY like that card tbh). Also, I would play him above the 3 mana Domri, since the deck wants to play more Birds either way due to the turn 3 Rhythm kill (would even play 4 of them tbh, if your metagame demands the turn 3).
Other cards, which have a nice synergy with Vannifar are: Minamo, School at Water's Edge (1 mana untap for her and Kiki, if you play him for value), Hanweir Battlements for granting haste for 1 mana (+ the land) and Hall of the Bandit Lord, which gives again haste.
However, I wouldn't want to overload on those lands, since those utility lands can and will lead to awkward draws, especially if you want to play a Township too. Realistically only Township is truly desirable, if the deck plays Rhythm (cause you do not need haste), otherwise Battlements and Hall of the Bandit Lord gets more interesting (although both are worse, since both do not allow a turn 3 kill).
Either way, I just realised, that you cannot combo chain off from anything but a one drop or Scryb Ranger, if it is the only creature in play and you do not have a Rhythm (otherwise a three drop would also work, since you Pod Angle, blink Vannifar than Pod Vannifar for Kiki). If you do not have a Rhythm in play, it would only work with either: Ranger of Eos (grabbing a one drop and Teardrop Kami or Seedcradle Witch (need 4 floating mana than) and start from there) or via Breaching Hippocamp if the sac outlet has Persist. You currently have 6 three drops without Persists and 3 with Persist, which means the Ranger package (Ranger + Witch) sounds better than the Hippo. This package also allows you to combo off from a two drop which is not Scryb Ranger (grab Exarch, grab Ranger, grab Bird + Witch, start the standard 1 drop loop). Including those two cards basically allow you to combo off with any creature with CMC 3 or less as long as you have 4 mana available. This sounds good to me if I'm honest.
But nobody plays Revoker atm, it sees only play in some Death and Taxes decks, which are basically irrelevant. If you really want an out vs Revoker than Knight of Autumn (which you already are playing) is strictly better. Also, it (Redcap) sucks vs Ooze (which interrupts the Scryb Ranger into Rallier chains) so I honestly see no reason to play it atm (there are simply no realistic targets in the game for it). Zealous Conscripts is better, since it does at least something (it is also nice against Planeswalkers), but even than I do not think, that that card is really necessary.
I was looking through the card base/spoilers and found this nice gem: Silhana Wayfinder. It can fix the draws while being able to dig for the cards we usually wants. Militia Bugler costs one more and adds the card directly into your hand, which is of course nice, but I will test with Wayfinder first (also, as a two drop it is so much nicer, if the opponent has removal for the turn 1 Bird).
This is especially an interesting decision because of Eldritch Evolution. Evolution can grab a silver bullet creature faster and more reliable than Chord (cause you just need something to "Pod" from to say it this way compared to the actual mana requirement of Chord). Both are bad when the board is empty, but Evolution can at least reliable rebuild sooner (one drop into Rallier/Witness rebuilds at least some board within a turn and you only need 4 mana for this compared to the 6 from Chord (Chord Witness)). I have not played that much with either cards to be honest, so I will need to test both of them to get a better feeling, which one is better for the given metagame.
Garbage
Kiki-Pod People at least sounds like something, but the deck (if it gets viable somehow) will need a proper name ^^
Greetings,
Kathal
PS: I honestly think, that an all-in version (aka with Rhythm) might not be good, cause the Devoted Druid deck with Postmortem Lunge does this better and especially more consistent.
PPS: Will brew together my "own" version in the next couple of days (depending on how much time I exactly have).
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Unfortunately, the OP maintainer for the current Kiki Chord thread, Ludafish, indeed posted that s/he will update with Vannifar lists, so chances are that discussion will get split. I initially posted a slightly older Vannifar list in the Kiki Chord thread, but I'll post an updated one here.
When it comes to the lands you have zero to two slots for utility lands. Here comes the choice between consistency and gambling on winning certain matchups. I did consider Minamo, School at Water's Edge and Hall of the Bandit Lord, because like you said, they fit into our strategy. I ignored Hanweir Battlements because well it does increase Vannifar's casting cost by two if you play her from your hand.
Running Ranger is a balancing act between having one more board state to Pod of to Kiki-Jiki, having enough silver bullets and being able to just present enough warm bodies and grind your opponent down, if for whatever reason you are locked out of Kiki-Jiki, for example Slaughter Games. It is not a bad idea, but it is a choice you have make. I personally think that using up three slots is too much.
The Revoker example was jsut something I pulled out of my hat, but that isn't the only reason I play Redcap. He is in the end our only form of main deck removal. I kinda want to have something that reads: "Break glass, in case of an emergency."
We will see what time brings. Maybe it will all fall under the Kiki Chord umbrella, maybe it will diverge. Vannifar does play blue and if it evolves to have Vannifar as its central pillar it will probably diverge, just like the Melira Chord lists diverged from Melira-Pod lists back in the day.
Remember, I don't know *****. ...Oh chungus I forgot that the PG-13 rules are enforced.
But that art is so ugly
Running Ranger adds 2 cards (Ranger + Witch, you already have enough one drops so no need to add Teardrop Kami) for the possibility to basically always combo off, doesn't sound that bad to me tbh. Heck, Witch on it's own is decent enough, cause it can pump your attacking creature.
Also, how much do you know about the current Modern meta? Cause it seems to me that you are basically stuck in the 2015 metagame, where things like Slaughter Games, Revoker and other (crappy) cards got played
If you do not really know, what is currently happening, I can give you a tl;dr.
Check.
(just as a note, the Bant version of Kiki Chord is really good atm)
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
On the other hand, if we go with Hippocamp then Sun Titan and Felidar Guardian/Resto can go off from a 1-drop without renegade rallier:
As far as flicker creatures, I kinda assumed we'd want a few. I don't know what the split between Felidar or Resto should be. Resto is a better beater, but Felidar has some corner case scenarios being able to flicker a land.
Just looked through the cardbase to find some good one drop creatures to grab via Ranger (to have at least one good card besides the Witch to get any ommphf out of him).
Mistcutter Hydra, Protean Hydra, Scute Mob, Student of Warfare, Warden of the First Tree, Herald of Anafenza, Lightning Serpent, Mikaeus, the Lunarch, Figure of Destiny, Endless One
The decent ones are basically. Mistcutter Hydra, Mikaeus, Lightning Serpent (as an Haste Trample finisher) and Figure of Destiny.
From those ones, I would only play Mikaeus and Mistcutter, cause the first one pumps the team and Mistcutter is good vs Control (cause it cannot be countered and protection of blue (Snappy/Colonade)) and realistically speaking, only Mikaeus is really playable.
So, for me, the Ranger package would be basically: Ranger of Eos, Seedcradle Witch and Mikaeus, the Lunarch, the first two for the set-up chain with 4 mana and Mikaeus so that we can actually tutor a decent creature with Ranger of Eos, if we do not have Vannifar.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
As they say, the beauty is eye of the beholder.
I see him as cute lill' guy who is charging up to his real power level. Just waiting in the deck until Nappa asks the most important question.
I will be considering that. I actually am pondering about just dropping Kitchen Finks and go all in with the Combo and Silver bullets.
Is my perspective slightly date? Absolutely. I've out sourced the knowledge of the meta to the other members of my play group and they are bringing me back up to speed. And we did do a little thinking about the Redcap and I think that the Deputy of Detention might actually be a proper option to bring from the Sideboard straight into the Main Deck.
I'll check it out.
My attitude towards deck creation and tuning, unless it is Standard, is that the deck that I am building and playing with can always made better, but it probably does have some good ideas, especially if it has a green tutor card... Which is every deck I have played outside of Standard now that I think about it.
Remember, I don't know *****. ...Oh chungus I forgot that the PG-13 rules are enforced.
The decklist I'm testing is pretty similar to the one at the top of the discussion, with some minor changes. All the lists I saw before this one were pretty much combo-oriented only, I believe this concept of Kiki/Vannifar is more interesting as it's something more similar to the current Kiki Chords, some sort of toolbox deck with a combo finisher. In this perspective, I believe that Rhythm of the Wild is a great addition to the deck, not only beacuse it enables the T3 combo, but also beacuse it gives some backup to the "midrange" potential of the deck.
What do you guys think of Eldritch Evolution? Do you believe that it can fit somehow in this variant? I'm currently testing and I'm unsure wether it can be useful or not.
As for names, I wouldn't get too cute with it. This deck will almost certainly be called Vannifar Pod if it makes it big, or something to that effect.
Eldritch Evolution is, as I seem to be repeating, an option. It has potential. It would be competing with Chord of Calling and not Prime Speaker Vannifar.
It had not the repeatability of Vannifar which places on the same approach as Chord. Now between Chord and Evolution I prefer Chord simply because we don't have to have the right creature on board and because it is an instant which is huge because of all thr shenanigans that we can do when pur opponent passes the turn. What Evolution has to defend itself is its cost, it will always be easier to cast at least in the terms of mana.
But Evolution is on the list it has some potential.
The former is kinda what I'm after in designing the deck, but I do see the latter as a viable option aswell.
I'm not trying to be too cute, just a bit. The People's Pod, maybe?
Also freaking SGears joins the thread, suddenly the people from I read about from, oh so many years ago, are joining in.
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I have 3 different lists that I am interested in playing, but the core 53-54 cards are the same in all 3, just with a few tweaks. Here's a few things that I haven't seen mentioned on this page:
1. Hall of the Bandit Lord really excites me.. The deck can support a non-green source or 2, and the ability to go T1 Bop, T2 Hall (or even T1 Hall, T2 Bop) into T3 Vannifar win is excellent. U dont want multiples, but I think 1 looks good on paper at least.
2. Have you guys been and checked out the deck-tech at MTGGoldfish. Some madman came up with this line:
Deceiver and Vannifar in play. Sac Deceiver, get Breaching Hippocamp, untap pod. Sac Hippo for Zealous Conscripts. Sac Conscripts for Sun Titan, return Deceiver. Sac deceiver get resto, flicker titan, get back deceiver, untap pod. Sac Resto get kiki, combo on Deceiver.
Once you add Hippo, you can also combo from any 2x 3 drops, OR a finks. Sac Finks, get hippo, sac finks again, get resto flicker hippo, sac hippo get kiki.
I don't know if this is good enough or not, but adding Conscripts (which is a decent card), Sun Titan (very good card) and Hippo (very bad card) opens up a tonne of combo options.
3. I think Spellskite is better than Shalai. We have a lot more 4-drops than before. We need to cut a few.
4. If you don't run a 2nd Kiki, Reveillark should be considered. Getting back Kiki+Deceiver sounds ok
Sorry if I'm repeating something here that's already been said. Very excited to play this deck again
Biggest difference is: You lower your curve by playing not playing lategame exclusive cards, which is something I currently rate higher than the raw power of Sun Titan (cause I would only play that package IF I would want Sun Titan in the deck and I would only play him if I need a super grindy tool + play Evolution).
Spellskite has a different job than Shalai, Shalai is a win con on her own (being able to pump your team) while also protecting Vannifar, so I rate her way higher than Spellskite.
Would play the second Kiki above Lark.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
4 Windswept Heath
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Flooded Strand
2 Forest
1 Plains
2 Temple Garden
1 Breeding Pool
1 Stomping Ground
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Steam Vents
2 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Fire-Lit Thicket
1 Gavony Township
3x Eldritch Evolution
3x Rhythm of the Wild
//Creature
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Noble Hierarch
1 Seedcradle Witch
1 Mikaeus, the Lunarch
2 Silhana Wayfinder
2 Voice of Resurgence
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Deceiver Exarch
1 Renegade Rallier
1 Eternal Witness
1 Knight of Autumn
1 Deputy of Detention
1 Scab-Clan Berserker
3 Prime Speaker Vannifar
2 Restoration Angel
1 Ranger of Eos
1 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
2 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Of course no SB, cause the MD needs to work first before I make any thoughts about the SB.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Hanweir Battlements
1 Gavony Township
4 Windswept Heath
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
1 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Island
Creatures
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Prime Speaker Vannifar
2 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Restoration Angel
1 Deceiver Exarch
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Seedcradle Witch
1 Ranger of Eos
1 Renegade Rallier
1 Restoration Gearsmith
1 Eternal Witness
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
1 Spellskite
1 Torch Courier
1 Militia Bugler
1 Coiling Oracle
1 Knight of Autumn
1 Deputy of Detention
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Magus of the Moon
2 Chord of Calling
1 Eldritch Evolution
1 Avalanche Riders
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Negate
1 Path to Exile
2 Fiery Justice
This build aims to consistently and quickly combo off with Vannifar, at the cost of losing some of its midrange game. Ideally, this should shore up my anti-aggro game. Opponents who don't kill Vannifar before she can get going quickly regret not killing her, as I combo off or search for combo protection. This leads to awkward decisions if opponents' only removal spells are Bolts and "Shocks" (e.g. Collective Brutality, Kolaghan's Command, Electrolyze, early Walking Ballista). It's possible that killing Scryb Ranger mid-combo is the best target, as killing Kiki-Jiki leaves me with the ability to combo off again next turn with the turn-Exarch-into-Restoration Gearsmith chain.
Because my aim is to quickly combo off--opponents not killing Vannifar are signs that they may not have removal, and I believe we should punish those players as quickly and harshly as possible--I've left in only the best hate bears. Hate permanents are now common enough in Game 1 that I've put Deputy of Detention in the maindeck. Knight of Autumn has been a barely-good-enough Swiss army knife. Scavenging Ooze is a graveyard-hating bear that can get enormous. Magus of the Moon sometimes harms my plan, but I can still combo off with the 1-drop chain as long as I don't use up my land drop for the turn until after Scryb Ranger bounces a Forest, and it's very powerful against some decks and starts.
Losing singletons pre-combo has occasionally been troublesome, but those slow down my combo at worst--though, occasionally, the loss of turns has cost me the game against faster decks. Note that a Scryb Ranger in play can also be turned into the combo in 1 turn, and Phantasmal Image enables the 2-drop and 1-drop chain without Scryb Ranger.
This deck's game against midrange decks is still surprisingly good despite dropping every creature that leaves behind a body when it dies except Glen Elendra Archmage.
The Chord-EEvo split is a concession to increase speed. Chord is still likely the better tutor--I once comboed off with Vannifar and Chord on X = 1 and another time with Vannifar and Chord on X = 2, with no other avenues to victory by combo at the time. But Chord is slow, and EEvo is starting to win its fair share of games.
I'm still not sure whether I should keep Ranger of Eos and Seedcradle Witch. I've only comboed off with the Dryad Arbor-into-Seedcradle Witch once successfully, and I've never comboed off successfully with the 3-drop chain (that includes Ranger of Eos). I could have comboed off another time with the Dryad Arbor chain if I didn't lose Dryad Arbor early-game because I had to play it as an early land drop. Yes, Dryad Arbor ends up in my opening hand far too often, which is why I need excellent reasons to play that card. Worryingly, Seedcradle Witch has contributed to more wins than I've comboed off with it (threatens to get creatures out of Bolt range, pumps creatures, untaps Kiki-Jiki). I don't think putting Teardrop Kami in this deck is worth it, even though it can effectively block my opponent's best attacker once.
Restoration Gearsmith is a cheaper way to enable the 2-drop chain than anything involving Seedcradle Witch. It leaves Exarch vulnerable to counterspells, though. I recall seeing Entomber Exarch in pre-ban Twin Pod decks without really knowing why, and upon finding that there are no cheaper ways to combo off from a 2-drop that don't involve Ranger of Eos, I now know why. Restoration Gearsmith is fatter and easier to hardcast than Entomber Exarch, though.
Torch Courier has been surprisingly good. I tried Generator Servant in its slot before in an attempt to grant Haste to Vannifar and improve my curve, but then I ran into situations like tapping out completely for Chord for Vannifar. Torch Courier performs the best in such corner cases due to not needing mana or tapping in order to give a cheated-in Vannifar Haste, and Vannifar only needs Haste once in order to win by OHKO. Being a 1-mana Haste granter has also been pretty good in situations where Chording it in instead is an option. And yes, I've comboed off on Turn 3 before.
I should probably tilt my sideboard even more towards improving my match-up against decks that are faster than me (the ones that outraced me fairly consistently in testing include UR Phoenix, Druid Vizier Evolution, and Gx Tron, but I'm sure more such decks exist).
In testing, though, this deck has been creaming Humans. Humans often can't quite get a fast enough start, as Vannifar can combo off from pretty meager board states, so I'm willing to lose a lot of creatures pre-combo. Kitesail Freebooter often grabs nothing against this deck. While Meddling Mage is annoying, Deputy of Detention has its number...although they've used Phantasmal Image to copy my Deputy a bunch of times before. I've also ended up hitting the Kiki-Jiki & Knight of Autumn "combo" against them multiple times while being unable to fully combo off thanks to opposing Meddling Mages on Vannifar and Chord, which leads to substantial life gain and ability to trade with their smaller dudes. Seedcradle Witch and Minamo have untapped Kiki-Jiki in those cases, letting me recover fairly quickly. Reflector Mage has just tended to slow me down instead of actually buying enough time for Humans to get through. Magus of the Moon cripples their mana base and therefore slows down their game plan fairly substantially.
If I want to give this deck maindeck removal, I'd much rather use Incubation // Incongruity than Path to Exile. Incubation digs for the combo when my focus isn't to get removal, and Incongruity hits hate bears just fine.
I agree with Kathal--the big-drops version of the chain consumes too many deck slots compared to sticking in just one Renegade Rallier and calling it a day. Worse, both chains are still vulnerable to graveyard hate (Scavenging Ooze/Remorseful Cleric/Relic of Progenitus). I'm still tweaking my deck list, mainly in the direction of making it more explosive and more consistent at comboing off (at the cost of silver bullets and its midrange game).
IMO, this deck cannot afford the slot for a grindy 0-1-drop to search with Ranger of Eos. I'm already considering dropping Ranger of Eos some days, as I've never successfully comboed off with the sole 3-drop chain. Walking Ballista is an underrated grindy/removal tutor target for Ranger, though.
Yes, I definitely believe it fits. Grindier versions can opt to sac Voice of Resurgence or Persist dudes to it, while explosive versions like mine just want the speed boost. There are so many aggro decks in the meta right now that speed boosts are great.
Vannifar's Twin-like effect only starts working when you can cast Chord for X = 4 (i.e. that's pretty slow). If you hold up Chord mana/Convoke, you often lose tempo doing so if you have enough creatures. The real Twin-like effect theoretically starts when you hit Restoration Angel/3-mana untapper mana and you're one away from Kiki-Jiki mana, but I don't really know how much opponents respect that.
I think this deck's viability will stem from its ability to combo off fast enough (I've been able to race KCI in testing), tutor enough hate and anti-hate to fend off some troublesome decks pre-board (e.g. Burn), and its insane late-game even when partially hosed (see my experience against Humans above for more details).
Hall of the Bandit Lord can't tap for mana without ripping out 3 life, so it's out for me. Being an ETB tapped land kills it even further for me. Hanweir Battlements doesn't harm your mana base as much and randomly wins the occasional game.
See above for my opinion on the big dudes chain.
I'd rather run both Spellskite and Shalai in this meta. Turning a 1-drop into combo protection in 1 turn is sweet as heck, but you need Shalai against Burn and Kolaghan's Command, and Shalai is a beater and win con.
I'm a big fan of Kiki #2. I've still had the misfortune of double Kiki in hand multiple times in testing, but in at least one of those times, I hardcast Kiki thanks to Scryb Ranger's help and comboed off that turn.