@BurstOfAnger - I'll try respond to your comments
1. Deceiver is better than Krasis - woodland bellower is the reason to run krasis. However, if you want a combo chain that doesn't require white (renegade rallier) and doesn't need the GY to function (Sun titan can fill the Bellower role), then you have to go Bellower + Krasis. That's not to say it's the only way to go, but it's the way that some go.
2. Rhythm of the Wild I tested for 100+ games. I think the card is stunning vs UWx, terrible vs any deck that doesn't give you time to play a 3-drop do nothing (burn, storm) and good in some other spots (like vs tron, you don't have a tonne of hatebears you can tutor up, so playing this on T2 and a Vannifar on T3 is good). It's a terrible topdeck against decks like BGx. If they care about it, they'll use a trophy to remove it AND it'll pump goyf, if you don't have any persist creatures, they'll just ignore it.
Rhythm is a much better magic card than Torch Courier. For the most part, you just want good cards in your deck. That's why I would stay well clear of Torch Courier. Some more recent lists have run Knight of the Reliquary + hanweir battlements, since you will occasionally get to line up a fast hand with a haste land, but the rest of the time both cards are very playable. I'd recommend this over Courier.
For everyone else - I think the best versions of these decks have cleaner mana. Field of Ruin is a real magic card, and Burn really punishes our fetch/shock manabase (and Burn is a pretty strong deck right now). As a result, the Knight of the Reliquary list is pretty nice, since it's straight GW with 4 blue cards (vannifar) and 2 red (kiki), making the mana a little cleaner. The Temur version that skimps on white and goes bellower is also successful, in part due to the ease of casting cards. I would recommend those 2 lists before any proper 4 colour decks (decks with GW + reflector mage + deputy of detention etc really stretches your mana). That's just my 2 cents at this point in time!
Few things on my list:
1. Arbor Elf in place of Hierarch is a budget choice that I’d switch if I had the chance!
2. Goblin Cratermaker wouldn’t make the cut but its my only out to Torpod Orb so it stays!
3. Negate and Avalanche Rider have meant that Tron is actually a positive match-up now, so are worth their slots
4. Relic in place of Surgical, but I think it MAY be the better option. Questionable since it’s a nonbo with Knight of the Reliquary specifically, but I do like it vs Snapcaster / search for azcanta decks, and goyf decks, and deaths shadow decks, which are all places I dont want surgical.
5. Incubation // Incongruity is certainly in the testing phase. So far its been ok, but it does take a couple of slots. For example, I could drop 1 for a MD Tracker and then I’d have space for a Chameleon Colossus in the SB.
6. 3rd Forest over 1st Horizon Canopy is another budget option, but until I get the Hierarch’s, I need forests for Arbor Elf.
7. I’m not sure if I want Negate or Unified Will. Unified Will is better vs Valakut specifically, whereas Negate is slightly better vs UW where I don’t want to overcommit to the board and/or when I’m trying to recover from a wrath effect.
Deck has been decent recently, quite happy with where it’s at. I do wish I could make space for more SB bombs. I have a small list of cards that I like and wouldn’t mind having access to, but they currently don’t make the cut:
1. 4th path
2. Kataki,
3. Chameleon Colossus
4. Gaddock Teeg
5. Swagtusk
End of my write-up. My results are still a little inconsistent but I’m basically playing modo for free. Varying results, but 2-3, 3-2 and 4-1 are all happening. Not yet hit a 5-0, but no real scrubbing outs either.
I still like Torch Courier the most in Chord of Calling builds like mine. While I rarely actually tutor for Torch Courier, and it mainly enables Turn 3 combos (even though it's a 1-of), it still grants Haste under the most sets of circumstances (e.g. the turn you play it or tutor for it, a turn where you tap it for Convoke). I've also had it attack the turn I play it with Exalted boosts from Hierarch before. It also enables Revolt, hilariously enough. And being only 1 cmc helps its case.
Knight of the Reliquary is only better in Eldritch Evolution-heavy builds: in those builds, you can Turn 2 out a KotR with a mana dork, then on Turn 3, you can tap a Forest/Plains for mana, make KotR eat it and tutor out Hanweir Battlements, turn KotR into Vannifar with Eldritch Evolution, give her Haste with Battlements, then turn your mana dork into the combo. Thing is, precisely because KotR needs summoning sickness to come off in order for it to tutor for lands, I never tutored for it with Chord and therefore eventually kicked it out of my no-Saheeli build.
I've never actually tried Rhythm of the Wild, though since slots are tight in both of my builds and I'm still trying to find room for a second Restoration Angel in my no-Saheeli build, I don't think I'll ever use it.
I still like Torch Courier the most in Chord of Calling builds like mine. While I rarely actually tutor for Torch Courier, and it mainly enables Turn 3 combos (even though it's a 1-of), it still grants Haste under the most sets of circumstances (e.g. the turn you play it or tutor for it, a turn where you tap it for Convoke). I've also had it attack the turn I play it with Exalted boosts from Hierarch before. It also enables Revolt, hilariously enough. And being only 1 cmc helps its case.
Knight of the Reliquary is only better in Eldritch Evolution-heavy builds: in those builds, you can Turn 2 out a KotR with a mana dork, then on Turn 3, you can tap a Forest/Plains for mana, make KotR eat it and tutor out Hanweir Battlements, turn KotR into Vannifar with Eldritch Evolution, give her Haste with Battlements, then turn your mana dork into the combo. Thing is, precisely because KotR needs summoning sickness to come off in order for it to tutor for lands, I never tutored for it with Chord and therefore eventually kicked it out of my no-Saheeli build.
I've never actually tried Rhythm of the Wild, though since slots are tight in both of my builds and I'm still trying to find room for a second Restoration Angel in my no-Saheeli build, I don't think I'll ever use it.
Do you mind posting your list? I just dont like the value card of Knight, I dont think it does enough and is really slow. Plus your reasons. Are you running blue? While it stretches your mana, I think adding more basics helps. Im still torn for the 2 spot. I like wall of omens, but lets be real, that sucks. Maybe voice, maybe roots, still not sure. I really like the one of the torch. I think incubation is better in turbo counters, but not this. We are a bullet deck, and I want to be able to grab those bullets. I personally hate evo, but its a necessary evil.
I still like Torch Courier the most in Chord of Calling builds like mine. While I rarely actually tutor for Torch Courier, and it mainly enables Turn 3 combos (even though it's a 1-of), it still grants Haste under the most sets of circumstances (e.g. the turn you play it or tutor for it, a turn where you tap it for Convoke). I've also had it attack the turn I play it with Exalted boosts from Hierarch before. It also enables Revolt, hilariously enough. And being only 1 cmc helps its case.
Knight of the Reliquary is only better in Eldritch Evolution-heavy builds: in those builds, you can Turn 2 out a KotR with a mana dork, then on Turn 3, you can tap a Forest/Plains for mana, make KotR eat it and tutor out Hanweir Battlements, turn KotR into Vannifar with Eldritch Evolution, give her Haste with Battlements, then turn your mana dork into the combo. Thing is, precisely because KotR needs summoning sickness to come off in order for it to tutor for lands, I never tutored for it with Chord and therefore eventually kicked it out of my no-Saheeli build.
I've never actually tried Rhythm of the Wild, though since slots are tight in both of my builds and I'm still trying to find room for a second Restoration Angel in my no-Saheeli build, I don't think I'll ever use it.
Do you mind posting your list? I just dont like the value card of Knight, I dont think it does enough and is really slow. Plus your reasons. Are you running blue? While it stretches your mana, I think adding more basics helps. Im still torn for the 2 spot. I like wall of omens, but lets be real, that sucks. Maybe voice, maybe roots, still not sure. I really like the one of the torch. I think incubation is better in turbo counters, but not this. We are a bullet deck, and I want to be able to grab those bullets. I personally hate evo, but its a necessary evil.
Here's my Saheeli list. It's the same as before, but I may as well post it again:
I find myself wishing for lands like Steam Vents shockingly often, but I still find this tends to have the better match-ups overall, at least in Game 1. I haven't really tested post-board games, though.
Knight of the Reliquary is excellent in this deck--along with speeding up the combo by tutoring for Hanweir Battlements (and then optionally getting sacced by Eldritch Evolution), she's an additional threat that several decks cannot ignore.
I've still found that Restoration Gearsmith is weaker overall than Restoration Angel, but I suspect I did get a win from Gearsmith once so far in testing. The Incubation // Incongruity is partially to try to squeeze in removal maindeck and partially to lower my curve, but it's a fairly crummy removal spell, and I've made it dig for a creature way more often. While it's not that good at finding the precise creature I want, it's nuts with Eternal Witness.
I've found that both decks have close enough Burn match-ups (at least in Game 1). The Saheeli list forces the combo through more easily and forces Burn to save resources to disrupt it, while the No-Saheeli list prioritizes searching for Shalai and stabilizing that way.
I got some experiences that I would like to share, and I hope you can use it in your own deck decisions.
The structure
For the manadorks I choose 7 one-drops and 3 two-drops (Wall of roots, sylvan caryatid and Scryb Ranger). I count Scryb Ranger as a mana producer as well. I like wall of roots because it gives more activations of Scavenging ooze and because it gives mana right away. On the other hand I like Sylvan Caryatid because the extra color is very important in a 4 color deck. That is why I split 1/1. Furthermore Renegade Rallier can also provide mana advantage.
With that setup I think that 22 lands is enough, I barely have problems with not having enough mana. Although I think that the manabase itself can be improved, let me know if you have any suggestions.
I have 8 two drops, and I think in this deck the right amount is 8-10. You want enough 2-drops when they bolt your manadork and you can evolution them to a Vannifar. So far I am impressed with the spellskite, scav ooz and 3 voices. I might want to try a qasali pridemage in the future.
As for the 3 drops, I also have Rhythm of the Wild in the 3 spot so I tried to minimize it for the curve. Rallier overperformed so I upped it to two slots. I think you need to play at least one creature that can remove other creatures since the meta is full of DS, thing in the ice and other threats that need to be cleared fast. Thats why I play one reflector mage since you can easily tutor for it. Now that burn is populair I play 3 finks, also since they are very good in a Rhythm of the Wild build. So far I really like the Rhythm of the Wild in this deck. It allows to combo quicker and out of nowhere. But I also think it is a must vs the UW(R) decks. I play 3 of them because they are very valuable but I never want to draw 2 of them and I want more creature spots in the deck. The 4 Eldritch Evolution are a nobrainer for me. I notice that since I play Renegade Rallier and Kitchen finks, I am almost never out of creatures to sacrifice. Against GB(x) I often sac a voice and just get a Renegade Rallier for value. I might try 1 additional chord of calling but in the Rhythm build I am already heavy on non-creatures.
I have as few as possible 4 and 5 drops since I noticed in previous builds that I made the deck too slow and clunky. Glen Elendra works very well for me, even better since I play Rhythm. Angel is part of the combo but also value with finks and rallier.
Then the last part of the structure of the deck is the removal package. As I said I think maindeck removal is important and I would play at least 3 removal slots maindeck. I personally like 2 path to Exile and 1 Reflector mage. Also when you look at the Birthing Pod decks from the past, they always played at least 3-4 removal cards maindeck.
Sideboard
The 2 Fiery Justice and 1 Path to exile are additional removal spells. You can change your deck to a more midrange value type deck but still combo out of nowhere. Fiery Justice is great vs. creature decks, Thing in the Ice, DS. I could see an additional path to exile in the SB.
Sigarda - great vs GB(X)
Chameleon - Great vs GB(X) and DS.
Magus of the Moon - Because it wins games vs. Tron/Amulet/Ad Nauseam and others.
2 Gaddock Teeg - This guy won me games vs. UW(x) decks in combination with Rhythm and Glen Elendra by simply locking the game.
2 Geist of Saint Traft - New addition because I want a better game vs. UW(x)/UR
1 Keranos - also in a test slot.
I think the rest speaks for itself.
Why this deck over Devoted Druid combo
I think the deck is slower than Devoted Druid combo deck but I think this deck has a better value game, and still you can consistently combo on turn 4 when your opponent has no interaction. Personally, I really enjoy playing this deck, but that is not a competitive reason.
My questions
I would like to know how Chord of Calling worked for you guys?
And what about Knight of the Reliquary, should I play it instead of Kitchen finks or the second Rallier?
Last, How can I improve my manabase?
Has anyone thought of replacing the red with black and going old school Melira toolbox/combo?
I was debating playing creatures like Murderous Redcap and Hostage Taker. Perhaps even top end at Muldrotha, Gravetide.
It would give me access to mainboard removal like Shriekmaw, Abrupt Decay, and Assassin's Trophy.
Then you also get sacrifice outlets like Vicera Seer and Cartel Aristocrat.
Why isn't Kiora's Follower included in the base list?
It's GU 2/2: Untap another target permanent
It seems better than Bounding Krasis when you consider the merfolk (Kiora's Follower) can untap any permanent repeatedly, while the Krasis can only untap a creature once.
Wanted to do a big write-up. those of you on discord may have seen most of this!
So, I've been playing MTGO (friendly) leagues, and my last 4 have finished 4-1, 4-1, 5-0, 5-0. Lets have a discussion! Here's the decklist: https://www.streamdecker.com/deck/w5wBOi9feh
And here's what I played against (for interest only)!
League 1 (4-1)
Goblins
Dredge
UW Control (loss)
Eldrazi & Taxes
4c shadow
League 2 (4-1)
Elves (loss)
UW Control
Affinity
Ad Naus
Storm
League 3 (5-0)
UB Mill
mono U curiosity
5c agro
abzan midrange
BG rock
League 4 (5-0)
Ad Nauseum
Amulet
Abzan "creatures" (Aether Vial, KotR, hatebears)
Humans
Affinity
So, I've not played the big decks lately (no pheonix, burn or grixis shadow, but did play 4c shadow and dredge).
Anyway, there's some obvious questions about cards that I bet most of you have!!
1. Fauna Shaman - this card looks rubbish on paper, or at best, average. It dies to everything in the format, pretty much. For me, it's replacing Eldritch Evolution. So here's a comparison. Fauna Shaman when left unchecked takes over the game (will explain more in part 2). Eldritch Evo will get your best card for you, but nothing more. When facing interaction, Fauna Shaman dies and you don't get to tutor anything. However, it trades 1-for-1 with the opp. Eldritch Evo, on the other hand, costs 2 cards to get 1. Depending on what you fetch, you can be down a card at the end of the exchange, and very rarely up on the exchange.
The big downside to Shaman is that it's impossible to tutor up a 3-drop on turn 2 with it - against a deck like storm/tron, grabbing Eidolon / Magus of the Moon on Turn 2 can be the difference between a win and a loss.
The other upside on Shaman is that it plays around Grafdiggers' Cage! Win!
Having said that, the way Shaman carries a game shouldn't be overlooked... which leads me nicely onto:
2. squee, goblin nabob - this card looks odd too. It's pretty weak by itself, though I have used it on chump duty and on "discard to lili" duty before, generally speaking this isn't a card you ever want to see without Fauna Shaman. So, why run it?
Well - if your shaman is staying in play (which it will sometimes, even against control decks, it just may be later in the game), then you can use your first activation on the opps end-step to grab squee. Your 2nd activation now gets whatever you need - so at this point, you have turned "random creature in hand" into "best creature in deck", and put squee in the yard. That's pretty inefficient. BUT, for the rest of the time that shaman lives, you get "G, search for your best card". That's mental! You still get your draw step. I realize that 3 activation's is a lot, but if you get 3, you never lose, thanks to squee. AND, then there's the bonus of "I drew squee whilst having shaman". In that spot, 2 activations is usually enough to tie up the game.
In short - the payoff for the deck space is massive, and its well worth the slot. Its what took shaman from bad to good in my opinion.
3. Rhythm of the Wild - this deck makes better use of Rhythm than any other i've seen. When you only have prime speaker in your list, Rhythm can be a little hit and miss. But with 4 Shaman too, you have more pay-offs for this card. It's been pretty good, but I could see 1 being cut.
4. Goblin Cratermaker - very few games go by where I dont search this up. It's not always the 1st card you get, but you use it way more than you expect, and it's reusable with Rallier + Witness. It's great to ahve some removal MD that you can tutor up with your 8 re-useable tutors.
I would recommend the doubters out there to check my stream for gameplay examples (https://www.twitch.tv/daviusminimus/). A LOT of my wins can be attributed to Shaman and/or Rhythm. I hope you get inspired to try it out.
It's pretty sad that Breaching Hippocamp is the best untapper in the 4-drop slot. It is not a good card, but it is necessary for the combo in temur. I hope Wizards prints a strict upgrade soon!
Hey Everyone,
I am guessing most people reading here are already on Discord and so may have seen my updates. However, the below is a document that I've made, with my current decklist and a mini-sideboard guide for the top 14 match-ups and whether its favourable or not (all decks more than 2%).
My list has been pretty steady for the last couple of weeks, with only small tweaks happening. I have been grinding the friendly leagues, and on 2 occasions went 3-2, 4-1, 5-0 (so 12-3 twice). That record has started to pay out nicely, so I took a punt on a competitive league when MODO got back up running yesterday. I went 3-2, so was indifferent payout to a friendly league, but then followed that with a 4-1, beating UW Control, Mardu Pyro, Spirits, Valakut and loosing to Grixis Shadow in Match 5. Unfortunately the deck does struggle with the faster Death Shadows hands (they landed a shadow on T1 G1 on the play), and in G2 I drew 8 lands to 4 non-lands by turn 6 (i kept a 4 spell 3 land hand and drew lands every draw step). That's not to say I would have won G2 with a good spell distribution, and definitely doesn't say I'd win Game 3, but it's dissapointing that I didn't get to try!
Overall, I think the list is great. I will continue to work on it, but the maindeck feels very smooth. The mana works, and the toolbox creatures are all perfectly acceptable in your opener (there's very few MUs where Scooze, Spellskite, Deputy, Knight or Cratermaker are not relevant). The sideboard will continue to get updated as time goes on.
Would love more people to test this list, because it is really quite good imo. Feel free to ask any questions.
Match 1 vs Amulet - this was an epic 3. game 1 I had a good draw (T1 Dork, T2 Knight for Amulet, T3 Prime Speaker). Game 2 went mega long. They had trinket mage grabbing pithing needle for my prime speaker, then they landed a turn 6(!!) titan after having played a path and a radiant flames to wipe away a lot of my stuff (including my magus of the moon, and i had boarded out witness). At this point, i have a choice. I can use Shaman to grab knight of autumn, remove coalition relic, meaning my opp would have just titan and 2 available mana (had a pact to pay for). Or, get knight and remove pithing needle. Or just jam a prime speaker and hope i untap with the shaman to grab knight (i only had 4 mana available). I could also get deputy to remove titan, but know that im basically dead and buried by a removal spell then. I chose to take them off some mana, but I think Prime Speaker and make them have it was the line. It goes quite a bit longer before I eventually die to infinite interaction off of their t-wests (double EE and Ballista) and trinket mage (needle).
Game 3 is a littleeee less exciting, but some really good play from my opp all the same (he played really well for all 3 games). Its pretty quickly estabilished that we're both racing, as I go T1 Dork, T2 spellskite that got pathed, T3 Prime Speaker. They make an amulet, but are missing any more ramp (or a bounceland, 1 or the other). T2-T3 they just make land drops, so i am predicted path or something. T4 they tap out for azusa, play a bounce land 3 times and make a titan, and go into the tank. It turns out they had infinite options. They know pact of negation isnt worth getting. But they have trinket mage in hand so attack with titan and then get double-bounce so they can make mage into needle naming speaker. I have deputy of detention, remove needle and win. But, they did naturally have ballista in hand, which could have removed my dork. However, in that spot, I could deputy the ballista then play a fauna shaman (thanks to the ramp from path) to combo from there. I basically had the nuts for that particular hand of my opponents.
Match 2 vs UR Control - won in 2, dont remember the details, but game 1 was a quick win (i didnt even know what i was facing, just saw 3 lands and opt). I boarded as if they were storm and they lead T2 Titi. I paniced a bit, but spell pierce and eidolon were actually great. Makes me think I should run Eidolon vs UW Control. The good thing about it was that I could use fauna shaman + resto to respond to any spell they might have, so as long as i stayed ahead on board, i couldnt lose.
Match 3 vs Storm - won in 2, my opp kept a bad hand G1 and I had interaction in the form of eidolon (off shaman), into spellskite, into kiki-jiki. I then just had to be careful and make sure i wasnt blown out by echoing truth.
Match 4 vs Humans - game 1 they dont have an answer to my Turn 4 Prime Speaker, so I use a fauna shaman and a courser to chump block some big champions and untap and win. Game 2 a Fiery Justice clears up 2 bobs and a champion of the parish, then the follow-up kitesail x2 and tax-thalia did nothing and i took over with shaman + squee (they scooped very quickly).
Currently 4-0
Match 5 vs Grixis Control with Titi - Basically, the deck destroyed me Game 1. They had lots of removal but they didnt even have to rush to use it, because they have a titi just sitting there. Eventually they go bolt flip titi, snap bolt, swing win.
Game 2 is closer(ish), but I get stuck on 2 lands, a scryb ranger and a bop, with shaman + squee active. But they have counter-magic and titi, and i just cant get going. I eventually die on Turn 8 having never made land drop 3. I had a decent chance if i could get moving, since i had cards like scryb ranger to block titi and resto to protect it. Had an uncastable Deputy because the BOP came back to hand. That felt bad.
Last 3 leagues are 5-0, 2-3, 4-1. Pretty good, 11-4 is pretty reasonable imo.
Around the 59:00 mark, after a Terminus wipe, new Vivien comes down against UW and starts pulling the Vannifar player back into the game between giving creatures flash and digging for them. Sensationalistic video titles aside, Vivien, Champion of the Wilds could possibly be a nice shot in the arm for the deck, possibly even enough to allow it to go toe to toe with other tier decks.
Watched the game, Vivien was basically a "draw 3 cards over a couple of turns", that's it. Not that impressive, especially given how badly the UW Control player played it/drew cards. He did basically nothing but Field of Ruin twice, Path once and attack with Colonade twice, where he forgot to attack once. No Planeswalker, nothing to pressure the deck, even without Vivien he should have won that game.
Greetings,
Kathal
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
True, but to be fair, Vivien was also drawn relatively late. If she came down earlier (which she can do as early as turn 2 with the help of a dork), she can start accruing CA and value, especially against board wipes after which she can help you rebuild, or at worst act as a 3-mana Spellskite and pressure their spot removal. Even if she gets removed after a -2 she was still a 2 for 1 essentially.
All that considered I still think she’s worth a try at least
1. Deceiver is better than Krasis - woodland bellower is the reason to run krasis. However, if you want a combo chain that doesn't require white (renegade rallier) and doesn't need the GY to function (Sun titan can fill the Bellower role), then you have to go Bellower + Krasis. That's not to say it's the only way to go, but it's the way that some go.
2. Rhythm of the Wild I tested for 100+ games. I think the card is stunning vs UWx, terrible vs any deck that doesn't give you time to play a 3-drop do nothing (burn, storm) and good in some other spots (like vs tron, you don't have a tonne of hatebears you can tutor up, so playing this on T2 and a Vannifar on T3 is good). It's a terrible topdeck against decks like BGx. If they care about it, they'll use a trophy to remove it AND it'll pump goyf, if you don't have any persist creatures, they'll just ignore it.
Rhythm is a much better magic card than Torch Courier. For the most part, you just want good cards in your deck. That's why I would stay well clear of Torch Courier. Some more recent lists have run Knight of the Reliquary + hanweir battlements, since you will occasionally get to line up a fast hand with a haste land, but the rest of the time both cards are very playable. I'd recommend this over Courier.
For everyone else - I think the best versions of these decks have cleaner mana. Field of Ruin is a real magic card, and Burn really punishes our fetch/shock manabase (and Burn is a pretty strong deck right now). As a result, the Knight of the Reliquary list is pretty nice, since it's straight GW with 4 blue cards (vannifar) and 2 red (kiki), making the mana a little cleaner. The Temur version that skimps on white and goes bellower is also successful, in part due to the ease of casting cards. I would recommend those 2 lists before any proper 4 colour decks (decks with GW + reflector mage + deputy of detention etc really stretches your mana). That's just my 2 cents at this point in time!
http://deck.tk/4brT9kyO
Few things on my list:
1. Arbor Elf in place of Hierarch is a budget choice that I’d switch if I had the chance!
2. Goblin Cratermaker wouldn’t make the cut but its my only out to Torpod Orb so it stays!
3. Negate and Avalanche Rider have meant that Tron is actually a positive match-up now, so are worth their slots
4. Relic in place of Surgical, but I think it MAY be the better option. Questionable since it’s a nonbo with Knight of the Reliquary specifically, but I do like it vs Snapcaster / search for azcanta decks, and goyf decks, and deaths shadow decks, which are all places I dont want surgical.
5. Incubation // Incongruity is certainly in the testing phase. So far its been ok, but it does take a couple of slots. For example, I could drop 1 for a MD Tracker and then I’d have space for a Chameleon Colossus in the SB.
6. 3rd Forest over 1st Horizon Canopy is another budget option, but until I get the Hierarch’s, I need forests for Arbor Elf.
7. I’m not sure if I want Negate or Unified Will. Unified Will is better vs Valakut specifically, whereas Negate is slightly better vs UW where I don’t want to overcommit to the board and/or when I’m trying to recover from a wrath effect.
Deck has been decent recently, quite happy with where it’s at. I do wish I could make space for more SB bombs. I have a small list of cards that I like and wouldn’t mind having access to, but they currently don’t make the cut:
1. 4th path
2. Kataki,
3. Chameleon Colossus
4. Gaddock Teeg
5. Swagtusk
End of my write-up. My results are still a little inconsistent but I’m basically playing modo for free. Varying results, but 2-3, 3-2 and 4-1 are all happening. Not yet hit a 5-0, but no real scrubbing outs either.
I still like Torch Courier the most in Chord of Calling builds like mine. While I rarely actually tutor for Torch Courier, and it mainly enables Turn 3 combos (even though it's a 1-of), it still grants Haste under the most sets of circumstances (e.g. the turn you play it or tutor for it, a turn where you tap it for Convoke). I've also had it attack the turn I play it with Exalted boosts from Hierarch before. It also enables Revolt, hilariously enough. And being only 1 cmc helps its case.
Knight of the Reliquary is only better in Eldritch Evolution-heavy builds: in those builds, you can Turn 2 out a KotR with a mana dork, then on Turn 3, you can tap a Forest/Plains for mana, make KotR eat it and tutor out Hanweir Battlements, turn KotR into Vannifar with Eldritch Evolution, give her Haste with Battlements, then turn your mana dork into the combo. Thing is, precisely because KotR needs summoning sickness to come off in order for it to tutor for lands, I never tutored for it with Chord and therefore eventually kicked it out of my no-Saheeli build.
I've never actually tried Rhythm of the Wild, though since slots are tight in both of my builds and I'm still trying to find room for a second Restoration Angel in my no-Saheeli build, I don't think I'll ever use it.
Do you mind posting your list? I just dont like the value card of Knight, I dont think it does enough and is really slow. Plus your reasons. Are you running blue? While it stretches your mana, I think adding more basics helps. Im still torn for the 2 spot. I like wall of omens, but lets be real, that sucks. Maybe voice, maybe roots, still not sure. I really like the one of the torch. I think incubation is better in turbo counters, but not this. We are a bullet deck, and I want to be able to grab those bullets. I personally hate evo, but its a necessary evil.
Here's my Saheeli list. It's the same as before, but I may as well post it again:
1 Hanweir Battlements
2 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Gavony Township
1 Horizon Canopy
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Temple Garden
1 Stomping Ground
1 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Forest
1 Plains
Creatures
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Lotus Cobra
4 Prime Speaker Vannifar
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
4 Felidar Guardian
1 Deceiver Exarch
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Renegade Rallier
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Spellskite
2 Coiling Oracle
1 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Oath of Nissa
4 Saheeli Rai
4 Eldritch Evolution
1 Deputy of Detention
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Knight of Autumn
1 Avalanche Riders
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Stony Silence
2 Spell Pierce
1 Path to Exile
1 Fiery Justice
I find myself wishing for lands like Steam Vents shockingly often, but I still find this tends to have the better match-ups overall, at least in Game 1. I haven't really tested post-board games, though.
Knight of the Reliquary is excellent in this deck--along with speeding up the combo by tutoring for Hanweir Battlements (and then optionally getting sacced by Eldritch Evolution), she's an additional threat that several decks cannot ignore.
And here's my current No-Saheeli list:
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Hanweir Battlements
1 Gavony Township
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
2 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Windswept Heath
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
1 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Plains
Creatures
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Prime Speaker Vannifar
2 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Deceiver Exarch
1 Restoration Angel
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Seedcradle Witch
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Ranger of Eos
1 Renegade Rallier
1 Restoration Gearsmith
1 Eternal Witness
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Spellskite
1 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
1 Torch Courier
1 Militia Bugler
1 Coiling Oracle
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Knight of Autumn
1 Deputy of Detention
2 Chord of Calling
1 Eldritch Evolution
1 Incubation // Incongruity
1 Avalanche Riders
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Goblin Cratermaker
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Negate
1 Path to Exile
2 Fiery Justice
I've still found that Restoration Gearsmith is weaker overall than Restoration Angel, but I suspect I did get a win from Gearsmith once so far in testing. The Incubation // Incongruity is partially to try to squeeze in removal maindeck and partially to lower my curve, but it's a fairly crummy removal spell, and I've made it dig for a creature way more often. While it's not that good at finding the precise creature I want, it's nuts with Eternal Witness.
I've found that both decks have close enough Burn match-ups (at least in Game 1). The Saheeli list forces the combo through more easily and forces Burn to save resources to disrupt it, while the No-Saheeli list prioritizes searching for Shalai and stabilizing that way.
I have been working on the vannifar deck for a few weeks now. I started with the Woodland Bellower builds and this is where I am now:
4 Windswept Heath
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Stomping Ground
2 Temple Garden
1 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Botanical Sanctum
1 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Fire-Lit Thicket
1 Gavony Township
1 Island
2 Forest
1-drops
3 Noble Hierarch
4 Birds of Paradise
2-drops
1 Sylvan Caryatid
1 Wall of Roots
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Voice of Resurgence
1 Bounding Krasis
1 Reflector Mage
2 Renegade Rallier
3 Kitchen Finks
4-drops
4 Prime Speaker Vannifar
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Restoration Angel
5-drop
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Other
4 Eldritch Evolution
3 Rhythm of the Wild
2 Path to Exile
1 Knight of Autumn
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
2 Fiery Justice
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Path to Exile
1 Chameleon Colossus
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Keranos, God of Storms
2 Negate
2 Geist of Saint Traft
I got some experiences that I would like to share, and I hope you can use it in your own deck decisions.
The structure
For the manadorks I choose 7 one-drops and 3 two-drops (Wall of roots, sylvan caryatid and Scryb Ranger). I count Scryb Ranger as a mana producer as well. I like wall of roots because it gives more activations of Scavenging ooze and because it gives mana right away. On the other hand I like Sylvan Caryatid because the extra color is very important in a 4 color deck. That is why I split 1/1. Furthermore Renegade Rallier can also provide mana advantage.
With that setup I think that 22 lands is enough, I barely have problems with not having enough mana. Although I think that the manabase itself can be improved, let me know if you have any suggestions.
I have 8 two drops, and I think in this deck the right amount is 8-10. You want enough 2-drops when they bolt your manadork and you can evolution them to a Vannifar. So far I am impressed with the spellskite, scav ooz and 3 voices. I might want to try a qasali pridemage in the future.
As for the 3 drops, I also have Rhythm of the Wild in the 3 spot so I tried to minimize it for the curve. Rallier overperformed so I upped it to two slots. I think you need to play at least one creature that can remove other creatures since the meta is full of DS, thing in the ice and other threats that need to be cleared fast. Thats why I play one reflector mage since you can easily tutor for it. Now that burn is populair I play 3 finks, also since they are very good in a Rhythm of the Wild build. So far I really like the Rhythm of the Wild in this deck. It allows to combo quicker and out of nowhere. But I also think it is a must vs the UW(R) decks. I play 3 of them because they are very valuable but I never want to draw 2 of them and I want more creature spots in the deck. The 4 Eldritch Evolution are a nobrainer for me. I notice that since I play Renegade Rallier and Kitchen finks, I am almost never out of creatures to sacrifice. Against GB(x) I often sac a voice and just get a Renegade Rallier for value. I might try 1 additional chord of calling but in the Rhythm build I am already heavy on non-creatures.
I have as few as possible 4 and 5 drops since I noticed in previous builds that I made the deck too slow and clunky. Glen Elendra works very well for me, even better since I play Rhythm. Angel is part of the combo but also value with finks and rallier.
Then the last part of the structure of the deck is the removal package. As I said I think maindeck removal is important and I would play at least 3 removal slots maindeck. I personally like 2 path to Exile and 1 Reflector mage. Also when you look at the Birthing Pod decks from the past, they always played at least 3-4 removal cards maindeck.
Sideboard
The 2 Fiery Justice and 1 Path to exile are additional removal spells. You can change your deck to a more midrange value type deck but still combo out of nowhere. Fiery Justice is great vs. creature decks, Thing in the Ice, DS. I could see an additional path to exile in the SB.
Sigarda - great vs GB(X)
Chameleon - Great vs GB(X) and DS.
Magus of the Moon - Because it wins games vs. Tron/Amulet/Ad Nauseam and others.
2 Gaddock Teeg - This guy won me games vs. UW(x) decks in combination with Rhythm and Glen Elendra by simply locking the game.
2 Geist of Saint Traft - New addition because I want a better game vs. UW(x)/UR
1 Keranos - also in a test slot.
I think the rest speaks for itself.
Why this deck over Devoted Druid combo
I think the deck is slower than Devoted Druid combo deck but I think this deck has a better value game, and still you can consistently combo on turn 4 when your opponent has no interaction. Personally, I really enjoy playing this deck, but that is not a competitive reason.
My questions
I would like to know how Chord of Calling worked for you guys?
And what about Knight of the Reliquary, should I play it instead of Kitchen finks or the second Rallier?
Last, How can I improve my manabase?
I was debating playing creatures like Murderous Redcap and Hostage Taker. Perhaps even top end at Muldrotha, Gravetide.
It would give me access to mainboard removal like Shriekmaw, Abrupt Decay, and Assassin's Trophy.
Then you also get sacrifice outlets like Vicera Seer and Cartel Aristocrat.
Thoughts?
It's GU 2/2: Untap another target permanent
It seems better than Bounding Krasis when you consider the merfolk (Kiora's Follower) can untap any permanent repeatedly, while the Krasis can only untap a creature once.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
So, I've been playing MTGO (friendly) leagues, and my last 4 have finished 4-1, 4-1, 5-0, 5-0. Lets have a discussion! Here's the decklist:
https://www.streamdecker.com/deck/w5wBOi9feh
And here's what I played against (for interest only)!
League 1 (4-1)
Goblins
Dredge
UW Control (loss)
Eldrazi & Taxes
4c shadow
League 2 (4-1)
Elves (loss)
UW Control
Affinity
Ad Naus
Storm
League 3 (5-0)
UB Mill
mono U curiosity
5c agro
abzan midrange
BG rock
League 4 (5-0)
Ad Nauseum
Amulet
Abzan "creatures" (Aether Vial, KotR, hatebears)
Humans
Affinity
Anyway, there's some obvious questions about cards that I bet most of you have!!
1. Fauna Shaman - this card looks rubbish on paper, or at best, average. It dies to everything in the format, pretty much. For me, it's replacing Eldritch Evolution. So here's a comparison. Fauna Shaman when left unchecked takes over the game (will explain more in part 2). Eldritch Evo will get your best card for you, but nothing more. When facing interaction, Fauna Shaman dies and you don't get to tutor anything. However, it trades 1-for-1 with the opp. Eldritch Evo, on the other hand, costs 2 cards to get 1. Depending on what you fetch, you can be down a card at the end of the exchange, and very rarely up on the exchange.
The big downside to Shaman is that it's impossible to tutor up a 3-drop on turn 2 with it - against a deck like storm/tron, grabbing Eidolon / Magus of the Moon on Turn 2 can be the difference between a win and a loss.
The other upside on Shaman is that it plays around Grafdiggers' Cage! Win!
Having said that, the way Shaman carries a game shouldn't be overlooked... which leads me nicely onto:
2. squee, goblin nabob - this card looks odd too. It's pretty weak by itself, though I have used it on chump duty and on "discard to lili" duty before, generally speaking this isn't a card you ever want to see without Fauna Shaman. So, why run it?
Well - if your shaman is staying in play (which it will sometimes, even against control decks, it just may be later in the game), then you can use your first activation on the opps end-step to grab squee. Your 2nd activation now gets whatever you need - so at this point, you have turned "random creature in hand" into "best creature in deck", and put squee in the yard. That's pretty inefficient. BUT, for the rest of the time that shaman lives, you get "G, search for your best card". That's mental! You still get your draw step. I realize that 3 activation's is a lot, but if you get 3, you never lose, thanks to squee. AND, then there's the bonus of "I drew squee whilst having shaman". In that spot, 2 activations is usually enough to tie up the game.
In short - the payoff for the deck space is massive, and its well worth the slot. Its what took shaman from bad to good in my opinion.
3. Rhythm of the Wild - this deck makes better use of Rhythm than any other i've seen. When you only have prime speaker in your list, Rhythm can be a little hit and miss. But with 4 Shaman too, you have more pay-offs for this card. It's been pretty good, but I could see 1 being cut.
4. Goblin Cratermaker - very few games go by where I dont search this up. It's not always the 1st card you get, but you use it way more than you expect, and it's reusable with Rallier + Witness. It's great to ahve some removal MD that you can tutor up with your 8 re-useable tutors.
I would recommend the doubters out there to check my stream for gameplay examples (https://www.twitch.tv/daviusminimus/). A LOT of my wins can be attributed to Shaman and/or Rhythm. I hope you get inspired to try it out.
I am guessing most people reading here are already on Discord and so may have seen my updates. However, the below is a document that I've made, with my current decklist and a mini-sideboard guide for the top 14 match-ups and whether its favourable or not (all decks more than 2%).
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1D-OmZYhRIYAeNQowT-wOCoFR2_JYEVEqf0lcXdHZ8Qc/edit#gid=0
My list has been pretty steady for the last couple of weeks, with only small tweaks happening. I have been grinding the friendly leagues, and on 2 occasions went 3-2, 4-1, 5-0 (so 12-3 twice). That record has started to pay out nicely, so I took a punt on a competitive league when MODO got back up running yesterday. I went 3-2, so was indifferent payout to a friendly league, but then followed that with a 4-1, beating UW Control, Mardu Pyro, Spirits, Valakut and loosing to Grixis Shadow in Match 5. Unfortunately the deck does struggle with the faster Death Shadows hands (they landed a shadow on T1 G1 on the play), and in G2 I drew 8 lands to 4 non-lands by turn 6 (i kept a 4 spell 3 land hand and drew lands every draw step). That's not to say I would have won G2 with a good spell distribution, and definitely doesn't say I'd win Game 3, but it's dissapointing that I didn't get to try!
Overall, I think the list is great. I will continue to work on it, but the maindeck feels very smooth. The mana works, and the toolbox creatures are all perfectly acceptable in your opener (there's very few MUs where Scooze, Spellskite, Deputy, Knight or Cratermaker are not relevant). The sideboard will continue to get updated as time goes on.
Would love more people to test this list, because it is really quite good imo. Feel free to ask any questions.
Match 1 vs Amulet - this was an epic 3. game 1 I had a good draw (T1 Dork, T2 Knight for Amulet, T3 Prime Speaker). Game 2 went mega long. They had trinket mage grabbing pithing needle for my prime speaker, then they landed a turn 6(!!) titan after having played a path and a radiant flames to wipe away a lot of my stuff (including my magus of the moon, and i had boarded out witness). At this point, i have a choice. I can use Shaman to grab knight of autumn, remove coalition relic, meaning my opp would have just titan and 2 available mana (had a pact to pay for). Or, get knight and remove pithing needle. Or just jam a prime speaker and hope i untap with the shaman to grab knight (i only had 4 mana available). I could also get deputy to remove titan, but know that im basically dead and buried by a removal spell then. I chose to take them off some mana, but I think Prime Speaker and make them have it was the line. It goes quite a bit longer before I eventually die to infinite interaction off of their t-wests (double EE and Ballista) and trinket mage (needle).
Game 3 is a littleeee less exciting, but some really good play from my opp all the same (he played really well for all 3 games). Its pretty quickly estabilished that we're both racing, as I go T1 Dork, T2 spellskite that got pathed, T3 Prime Speaker. They make an amulet, but are missing any more ramp (or a bounceland, 1 or the other). T2-T3 they just make land drops, so i am predicted path or something. T4 they tap out for azusa, play a bounce land 3 times and make a titan, and go into the tank. It turns out they had infinite options. They know pact of negation isnt worth getting. But they have trinket mage in hand so attack with titan and then get double-bounce so they can make mage into needle naming speaker. I have deputy of detention, remove needle and win. But, they did naturally have ballista in hand, which could have removed my dork. However, in that spot, I could deputy the ballista then play a fauna shaman (thanks to the ramp from path) to combo from there. I basically had the nuts for that particular hand of my opponents.
Match 2 vs UR Control - won in 2, dont remember the details, but game 1 was a quick win (i didnt even know what i was facing, just saw 3 lands and opt). I boarded as if they were storm and they lead T2 Titi. I paniced a bit, but spell pierce and eidolon were actually great. Makes me think I should run Eidolon vs UW Control. The good thing about it was that I could use fauna shaman + resto to respond to any spell they might have, so as long as i stayed ahead on board, i couldnt lose.
Match 3 vs Storm - won in 2, my opp kept a bad hand G1 and I had interaction in the form of eidolon (off shaman), into spellskite, into kiki-jiki. I then just had to be careful and make sure i wasnt blown out by echoing truth.
Match 4 vs Humans - game 1 they dont have an answer to my Turn 4 Prime Speaker, so I use a fauna shaman and a courser to chump block some big champions and untap and win. Game 2 a Fiery Justice clears up 2 bobs and a champion of the parish, then the follow-up kitesail x2 and tax-thalia did nothing and i took over with shaman + squee (they scooped very quickly).
Currently 4-0
Match 5 vs Grixis Control with Titi - Basically, the deck destroyed me Game 1. They had lots of removal but they didnt even have to rush to use it, because they have a titi just sitting there. Eventually they go bolt flip titi, snap bolt, swing win.
Game 2 is closer(ish), but I get stuck on 2 lands, a scryb ranger and a bop, with shaman + squee active. But they have counter-magic and titi, and i just cant get going. I eventually die on Turn 8 having never made land drop 3. I had a decent chance if i could get moving, since i had cards like scryb ranger to block titi and resto to protect it. Had an uncastable Deputy because the BOP came back to hand. That felt bad.
Last 3 leagues are 5-0, 2-3, 4-1. Pretty good, 11-4 is pretty reasonable imo.
https://youtu.be/O_FySbnooV0
Around the 59:00 mark, after a Terminus wipe, new Vivien comes down against UW and starts pulling the Vannifar player back into the game between giving creatures flash and digging for them. Sensationalistic video titles aside, Vivien, Champion of the Wilds could possibly be a nice shot in the arm for the deck, possibly even enough to allow it to go toe to toe with other tier decks.
What do you guys think?
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
All that considered I still think she’s worth a try at least