Rallier is more just a one-of I play in the flex slot you have Skite. I mentioned "Rallier manabase" because it makes it so Razorverge slots turn into fetches — I have 10 total — so the damage can add up quickly, making you feel the Canopies more. If you do not play a bunch of fetches, it definitely seems like a mistake to go below 3 Canopy. I'd personally go for the full 4 myself with Razorverges in the deck. A 12 dork combo deck is the ideal place to get greedy with Canopy. That said, with Burn rising a lot in popularity, sticking to 3 in Lava Spike heavy metagames is a good idea.
Rallier seems like a reason to play even more Canopies!
Right, it is a balancing act where Rallier synergizes great with Canopy, but Rallier also wants you to play two or three extra fetches as well. 3 is where I'm happiest currently given the extra fetches, but I could see anywhere from 2 to 4.
Well I'm not ready to try Rallier yet. Shalai is too good to play less than 2 when burn spells rule the world. I am going to trim a Razorverge for an 8th fetch, because I got land flooded a lot recently.
I'm also going to try a Magus of the Moon tonight. -1 Breeding Pool, +1 Stomping Grounds, -1 SB ???, +1 SB Magus of the Moon. While it misses pure GB Rock, its great against GBx, UW, and UWx, which are bad matchups in my experience.
I'm pondering bringing in Magus in other matchups:
Good vs Tron and Scapeshift, but I don't know that we need much help against them anyways.
Do we bring it in vs Dredge? While possibly impactful, I think the answer is no as it doesn't stop their removal nor their biggest engine cards.
Grixis Death's Shadow is low on Bolts these days, so probably worthwhile when on the play. Does it come down fast enough to matter when on the draw?
Amulet Combo is already a good matchup and it is full of new tech against Blood Moon effects.
Well I'm not ready to try Rallier yet. Shalai is too good to play less than 2 when burn spells rule the world. I am going to trim a Razorverge for an 8th fetch, because I got land flooded a lot recently.
I'm also going to try a Magus of the Moon tonight. -1 Breeding Pool, +1 Stomping Grounds, -1 SB ???, +1 SB Magus of the Moon. While it misses pure GB Rock, its great against GBx, UW, and UWx, which are bad matchups in my experience.
I'm pondering bringing in Magus in other matchups:
Good vs Tron and Scapeshift, but I don't know that we need much help against them anyways.
Do we bring it in vs Dredge? While possibly impactful, I think the answer is no as it doesn't stop their removal nor their biggest engine cards.
Grixis Death's Shadow is low on Bolts these days, so probably worthwhile when on the play. Does it come down fast enough to matter when on the draw?
Amulet Combo is already a good matchup and it is full of new tech against Blood Moon effects.
Any other matchups worth considering?
Let me know what you thought of Magus. It definitely is a little weird in that you want it most against decks you're generally favored against. I would definitely bring it in vs Tron, Amulet, and Shift. While it's not always necessary, it's great to have the ace in the hole if the opponent has a very disruptive draw. I personally wouldn't bring it in vs Dredge myself. GDS is probably personal preference and play draw dependent. I'd have to test it myself to say for certain.
Great to see Druid Evolution 5-0 a Comp League again. No value three and 4 + 1 on Commune effects is pretty neat to see. Replacing a three with a Commune is something I could get behind. Dork into Commune, two drop happens frequently in my experience.
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I played the deck last night, with minor changes to my list being -1 Tracker for a Chameleon Colossus to make for 2 pro black threats post board in Colossus and an Enforcer. Testing the BG matchup more, I found the majority of my wins came from the pro black creature, and a common line was two drop -> Evo it. More of them is valuable to allow for more of them naturally drawn, or seen in Incubation.
Ended up going 3-1 with wins against 4C Vannifar with Rhythm of the Wilds (aka a worse version of our deck), Burn, and Eldrazi Stompy, with a loss in the last round to UR Phoenix.
VS Vannifar. Game one I have the turn three but my opponent goes Deputy to force me to suicide Druid, into Image copy Deputy to take two Nobles. I have Lunge but I'm stuck on 4 Chord mana, so I'm unable to get Vizier. Game 2 I turn three unmolested. Game 3 I have a hand of Noble, Druid, Evo. I punt and Evolve my Noble into another Druid, confusing my Druid in hand with a Vizier for some reason. My opp goes T2 Rhythm. I draw Ballista and reluctantly Druid into of Ballista for 2, realizing this was a mistake given a third land from the opponent kills me. My opponent misses land and passes. I Ballista for 2, kill Noble, my opponent flashes in a Bellringer, bricks on land, passes. I draw Incubation, find Vizer for the win. Opponent shows me two Vannifar, ouch. I definitely misplayed twice and should have lost, but oh well.
VS Burn. I have a hand of Noble, Druid, Evo, scry Chord on top. Opp goes Guide on the draw, pass. I Druid, they Blaze it, then get turn 3'd. People get so tilted when their turn 3'd through a kill spell Game two my opponent T1 Swiftspear, I play fetch and get a tapped Temple after my opponent goes Eidolon. I Path Eidolon and fetch, shock for BFT. Opp plays 2nd Swiftspear, Charm me. I play Druid, he attacks me and Helixs preblocks on Druid. I sac BFT. I proceed to kill them with a Blaze in their hand, but on three mana it's good enough. Opp makes me play it out after getting Ballista'd game one PJSalt. Funny enough this is the same opp who wouldn't scoop after I Chalice them on 1, 2, 3 playing Burn as well.
VS E Stompy. My opponent thinks I'm on E Stompy after talking with him after R2. I go T1 Noble, T2 Druid, my opponent T3 TKSs me to see double Evo, Chord, Ballista. My opponent takes Ballista. I tank for a bit and kill him after getting Vizier, Duskwatch, into Shalai and attacks with two lethal attackers after Lunging back my Noble. Game 2 I go T2 Druid, my opponent Dismembers it. I fetch Dryad Arbor and kill on three lands with Lunge, Evo Arbor for Vizier.
VS UR Phoenix. Game 1 I have Druid in hand, but don't cast it into my opponent's T2 TitI. I Incongruity it in response to a Morphose. Opp ends up getting double Phoenix back anyway. I go Druid, Bird. Opponent Bolts Bird and me to deal exactsies. I side out Chords for 2 BFT, Skite, Selfless Spirit. I go dork into Selfless Spirit, opponent plays T2 TitI. I Incongruity it once again in response to the first spell, he chains spells into a Phoenix. I play a Druid, he Gut Shot Spirit and kill Druid. I get tempo'd out as my opp hits for three while killing anything that hits the table.
Let me know what you thought of Magus. It definitely is a little weird in that you want it most against decks you're generally favored against.
You feel we're general favored against GBx, UW, and UWx?!? If so, then I must be doing something seriously wrong! How are you playing against such disruption heavy decks?
Magus of the Moon was great. He puts some serious fear into opponents. I usually nail my opponent with him in game 2 then side him out in game 3, as the opponent will be playing around him constantly anyways. For my local meta, Magus of the Moon is definitely a good choice. I think if you see more Infect, Grixis Death's Shadow, and Thing in the Ice then the Breeding Pool to support Incongruity is better than Magus (and the requisite Stomping Ground).
That 5-0 list is really heavy on card advantage (as midrange hate?) in the SB, yet no graveyard hate. I'm pretty confused about that. Also, these online lists continue to play Linvala and I just don't know why. Is Affinity so difficult?
Let me know what you thought of Magus. It definitely is a little weird in that you want it most against decks you're generally favored against.
You feel we're general favored against GBx, UW, and UWx?!? If so, then I must be doing something seriously wrong! How are you playing against such disruption heavy decks?
Magus of the Moon was great. He puts some serious fear into opponents. I usually nail my opponent with him in game 2 then side him out in game 3, as the opponent will be playing around him constantly anyways. For my local meta, Magus of the Moon is definitely a good choice. I think if you see more Infect, Grixis Death's Shadow, and Thing in the Ice then the Breeding Pool to support Incongruity is better than Magus (and the requisite Stomping Ground).
That 5-0 list is really heavy on card advantage (as midrange hate?) in the SB, yet no graveyard hate. I'm pretty confused about that. Also, these online lists continue to play Linvala and I just don't know why. Is Affinity so difficult?
I meant that decks that nearly scoop to Magus are often among our best matchups. Sort of like Jeskai playing Stony Silence for OG Affinity. BGx, URx are unfavored for sure. I find UW to be close and favor goes to which ever wants to beat the other more in deckbuilding.
Glad Magus is working well for you. I wasn't siding it in often in my metagame and the nail in the coffin for me was how awkward it is to Evo a dork into Magus since we can't combo without at least a white mana, sometimes two. Do you just not look to Evo into it on turn two much, or do you find it not difficult to fetch Forest, Plains on turn two?
I do agree the sideboard is walker heavy. I've found sideboarding to be all over the place with this deck, so I don't pay a whole lot of attention to them. It seems like they were wanting to beat Control since walkers appear to be at their best in that matchup.
I meant that decks that nearly scoop to Magus are often among our best matchups. Sort of like Jeskai playing Stony Silence for OG Affinity. BGx, URx are unfavored for sure. I find UW to be close and favor goes to which ever wants to beat the other more in deckbuilding.
Glad Magus is working well for you. I wasn't siding it in often in my metagame and the nail in the coffin for me was how awkward it is to Evo a dork into Magus since we can't combo without at least a white mana, sometimes two. Do you just not look to Evo into it on turn two much, or do you find it not difficult to fetch Forest, Plains on turn two?
I do agree the sideboard is walker heavy. I've found sideboarding to be all over the place with this deck, so I don't pay a whole lot of attention to them. It seems like they were wanting to beat Control since walkers appear to be at their best in that matchup.
Yeah the lands based decks that basically auto-scoop to Magus are already good enough. Magus is really for shoring up the matchups against BGx, UWx, etc. Beating up on Tron/Scapeshift/etc is just a fringe benefit.
You are right about awkwardness with Magus. I just do my best with it because when it works out, its worth it.
I agree that other people's sideboards are not very informative. But I still look for general patterns. And the online lists CONSISTENTLY play 1x Linvala and I still don't know why!
I agree that other people's sideboards are not very informative. But I still look for general patterns. And the online lists CONSISTENTLY play 1x Linvala and I still don't know why!
The decks it's relevant against are: Elves, opposing Druid decks, Vannifar decks, Hardened Scales, Affinity, and maybe Value Town.
I see three main issues with Linvala.
Decks that Linvala is worth boarding in against are not well represented in the meta at large. None of the matchups are heavily unfavored. And, most of all, I don't know that Linvala is a necessary plan to begin with. When the opponent is slower than us and is light on disruption, is it better to cast and tutor bullets, or just focus our mana and tutors on goldfishing and reassembling the combo?
I will freely admit that these decks can goldfish us though, especially on the draw, so something should be brought in. However I'm not sure four drops are the best way to disrupt them. I personally would prefer bringing in Paths, and a Deputy of Detention on the draw. Path is much better than Linvala in that we can kind of tempo them by executing our gameplan while also potentially disrupting theirs.
My sideboarding mindset with Druid Evolution is that because we're the beatdown in nearly every matchup, I only need to bring in in cards when: I believe our opponent can potentially race, the combo is too difficult to reliably assemble in the face of heavy disruption, or if the opponent can prevent me from combo'ing due to cards like Cage or a Hexproof creature and Worship.
Speaking of sideboard plans, I've been liking marginal cards like Tracker and Scooze less and less. Tracker is rarely turning the tide in matchups where our opponent's postboard plan is kill everything. It too often ends up just being an expensive Harmonize. Scooze suffers from the same issue against fair decks, while I've found it to be an anemic answer against graveyard decks when the best plan for Dredge is to simply race them and rely on BFT to stop Conflag + Axe and Reanimator decks are fixed for me with Meddling Mage.
I have replaced them in my sideboard for a third pro black creature and a third BFT. I've found the most difficult matchups to be BGx, URx, Mardu, and disruptive aggro decks like Phoenix, Burn, and Shadow. Burrenton-Forge Tender is hands down the best protection creature for Bolt decks because, similar to Lunge, we can still threaten turn 3 wins. Discard decks are the one matchup I believe we have to lean into a beatdown plan postboard, and pro black creatures are extremely good at giving us a plan B. Planeswalkers also work and can better enable a beatdown plan against Control, but I've found URx Control to not be popular enough to play more Gideons.
I agree very strongly with your analysis of Linvala. However, I think her effect can be very relevant. That's why I'm keeping the Phyrexian Revoker in my SB for now, even though its primary target (KCI) is gone.
I agree with your evaluation of Tracker. I'm not quite on the same boat with Scooze. Scooze is vital for beating Tarmogoyf decks and decent against Snapcaster/Logic Knot/Search for Azcanta decks. However, it doesn't seem to hate on GRAVEYARD decks properly (which is where I agree with your evaluation of Scooze). Further, to use Scooze effectively as hate, you have to forgo your other development, which is a terrible tradeoff. That is the real reason I'm liking Scooze less. Maybe a 1x Remorseful Cleric over 1x Scooze?
I'm open to increasing the number of planeswalkers and/or pro-black creatures. However, I think Mystic Enforcer, Chameleon Colossus, and Gideon AoZ do not cover all of our weak spots. I think we need something that beats BG Rock. Unfortunately, I think the right answer is Elspeth, Sun's Champion but that's obviously not an option. Could Nissa, Steward of Elements work? I have seen her in a few sideboards. Mirran Crusader is too narrow.
In reference to your sideboard: I'm surprised to see zero Arcane Laboratory effects. Eidolon of Rhetoric is pretty good at keeping Phoenix in the GY and slowing the TitI flip. Also relevant against many other decks. The inability to slam multiple combo pieces in a row FTW is unfortunate, but Eidolon buys so much time in so many matchups.
I agree very strongly with your analysis of Linvala. However, I think her effect can be very relevant. That's why I'm keeping the Phyrexian Revoker in my SB for now, even though its primary target (KCI) is gone.
I agree with your evaluation of Tracker. I'm not quite on the same boat with Scooze. Scooze is vital for beating Tarmogoyf decks and decent against Snapcaster/Logic Knot/Search for Azcanta decks. However, it doesn't seem to hate on GRAVEYARD decks properly (which is where I agree with your evaluation of Scooze). Further, to use Scooze effectively as hate, you have to forgo your other development, which is a terrible tradeoff. That is the real reason I'm liking Scooze less. Maybe a 1x Remorseful Cleric over 1x Scooze?
I'm open to increasing the number of planeswalkers and/or pro-black creatures. However, I think Mystic Enforcer, Chameleon Colossus, and Gideon AoZ do not cover all of our weak spots. I think we need something that beats BG Rock. Unfortunately, I think the right answer is Elspeth, Sun's Champion but that's obviously not an option. Could Nissa, Steward of Elements work? I have seen her in a few sideboards. Mirran Crusader is too narrow.
In reference to your sideboard: I'm surprised to see zero Arcane Laboratory effects. Eidolon of Rhetoric is pretty good at keeping Phoenix in the GY and slowing the TitI flip. Also relevant against many other decks. The inability to slam multiple combo pieces in a row FTW is unfortunate, but Eidolon buys so much time in so many matchups.
I haven't tried out Revoker myself. What do you like it best against?
I've observed that Scooze has the same issues as Tracker in fair matchups. It can run away with the game, but too often it just gets one-for-one'd with little to no impact. I haven't experimented much with planeswalkers outside of Gideon AoZ, or cards with CMC greater than 4. I've found pro black creature do tend to win the game vs BG and DS when they hit the table, so I've moved to three to naturally draw them more and see them in more Incubations.
I've found Meddling Mage does a good enough Eidolon impression in combo matchups without slowing me down or shutting off cards that I'm okay without it or Canonist. Phoenix is the matchup it seems like we'd want Eidolon over Mage for, but the card puts us in a very bizarre gamestate that sometimes is good enough, but the better the Phoenix player, the worse it ends up being in my experience.
They have enough removal to disrupt us anytime we commit a Druid to the board. Lunge is almost turned off unless a mana sink and Vizier are on the table, and if they are, we get two-for-one'd and our Druid exiled if they kill the mana sink. I end up giving them a bunch of time to draw into Flame Slash/Axe and it's difficult to win at all if they draw TitI or Surgical in the meantime.
I do like Eidolon when BFT is drawn too, or if we go Eidolon into Shalai. I will try testing more with a focused gameplan of: get Eidolon on the table, get BFT or Shalai, then start committing combo pieces to the board. We could always try that new hot anti TitI tech that I saw some Bant Spirits players trying. Just put Mirror Entity in play and activate it for one to make your board Horrors.
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Have any of you all considered what Druid Evolution would look like if Green Sun's Zenith is ever unbanned? I toyed around with a hypothetical decklist that just trades Incubation for GSZ and wow is it nuts. An extra mana dork or T2 Druid in conjunction with a T1 dork would really take this deck to another level. Keep 4 in your TCGplayer cart anytime a B&R rolls around
I'm not sure how the Meddling Mages will perform, but Eidolon of Rhetoric (or any Arcane Laboratory effect) is too much of a hindrance to us for it to be a viable anti-combo plan.
I'm not sure how the Meddling Mages will perform, but Eidolon of Rhetoric (or any Arcane Laboratory effect) is too much of a hindrance to us for it to be a viable anti-combo plan.
Let me know how it works out for you, and good luck!
Interesting card spoiled for Modern Horizons today. Seems like a card to consider for its ability to compress two sideboard slots into one: combining a planeswalker with Worship. Worse against Midrange and Control than Gideon AoZ, but the ability to have an extra slot against removal light creature decks is neat.
A 2WW Serra Angel that leaves behind a planeswalker is a solid baseline. Serra makes an angel once every three turns, or can go angel, uptick, angel if you're okay with throwing it away.
The uptick is more or less flavor text in our deck, but Suspend 1 unanswerable Worhsip may be absolutely horrendous card design, but it definitely has the ability to steal games. I will say the plan of going straight to emblem is worse than it looks when considering it's game ending against decks that flood the board, so it may be hard to protect. That said, going downtick into plus three times, ultimate could work given a 4/4 vigilant flyer is a great blocker.
My initial impression is that, like all marginal cards, it's worth testing and thinking about, but unless Worship is a card I know I want, it's not immediately a card I know is playable like with Incubation and Deputy of Detention.
I think that after resolving Worship, we're more likely to lose the game from all our creatures being destroyed than by Worship being destroyed. So IMO the emblem is approximately the same value as Worship. And that makes Serra a hard pass for me. But she's definitely worth a third look in Counters Company.
Didn't do well this weekend. Compounded my desire to switch back to Abzan Company. However, I realized that my recent losing streaks have been at very small events, where non-meta decks will disproportionately effect my possible pairings. When I looked at the major events over the weekend, I felt favored versus the field.
Also, I realized that Death's Shadow matchup is not QUITE as bad as it could be due to our ability to shoot their Temur Battle Raged guy. It's unfortunate to have to not use Incubation AND hold mana up, but its an important interaction especially when it saves you 10+ points of life. It is an out that I haven't been playing towards and may have won me a match on Saturday if I had realized it at that time.
I'm going to try -1 Postmortem Lunge, +1 Lightning Greaves this weekend. I expect to like it, as I've spent a lot of time frustrated with hands full of Postmortem Lunges. Also, most things that we Lunge back are in the graveyard due to removal so Greaves does act in a role related to that of Lunge (though much more proactive).
I'm going to try -1 Postmortem Lunge, +1 Lightning Greaves this weekend. I expect to like it, as I've spent a lot of time frustrated with hands full of Postmortem Lunges. Also, most things that we Lunge back are in the graveyard due to removal so Greaves does act in a role related to that of Lunge (though much more proactive).
Swapping the fourth Lunge to a Greaves does seem okay in a more fair metagame. It does allow for some interesting turns where the opponent taps out and just randomly loses after not seeing Druid.
I went 3-1 this weekend after facing Dredge, Bant Eldrazi, Grixis Shadow, then losing to Sultai Teachings in the last round. Combo control with 1 CMC removal is certainly tough. Ordinary Sultai Control just dies to the pro black creatures, but we don't have the time to try and beatdown. I'll have to see if boarding in protection creatures or Pridemages and Meddling Mage is best. Could be a play draw thing.
I missed this, thanks for posting. Surgical is definitely very different, and he is ready to play a fair game with a couple Shalai and Scooze. I've never considered SB Surgical before. I suppose it's best against Dredge where you can nail their Conflags. Don't know that I care about it vs Phoenix? TitI is the real problem card.
Speaking of TitI, my friend mentioned to me a few weeks ago how Mirror Entity is some cute tech vs TitI because you make everything Horrors. Kind of clever. Now today I see someone 5-0'd a league using Abzan Company with one. Those of you on two Shalai might give it a shot? It's sort of similar? You get a mana sink but annoyingly demands a W, and it offers a bit of a beatdown plan B. Granted, it dies to a stiff breeze as a 1/1 naturally. Interestingly, you can kind of get a rebate on your mana with Mirror and Druid in play as well. You can pump your team big, swing, bait some removal in combat, then post combat combo using some "hidden mana" from a big Druid.
Neoform UG
Sorcery
As an additional cost sacrifice a creature.
Search your library for a creature card with converted mana cost equal to 1 plus the sacrificed creature's converted mana cost, put that card onto the battlefield with an additional +1/+1 counter on it, then shuffle your library.
Wow, neat new card in WAR. I'm interested in trying out a 2:2 split with it and Incubation. Not as good as it might initially look because the only way to get a combo piece is with a dork (no "or less" clause). That said, cool how it doesn't exile--Eternal Witness--and it gives a +1/+1 counter, meaning Druid can make 3 mana in one turn, which means only two lands are needed to Chord for Vizier on T3.
I have zero interest in Neoform. The lack of "or less" makes this card very narrow: too narrow for us to rely upon. However, WAR has given us a new toy! Meet the new Green Sun's Zenith!
Finale of devastation definitely seems good. Chord of calling is often too slow when I play the deck, so a cheaper version that can serve as a kill in itself is definitely appreciated.
I have zero interest in Neoform. The lack of "or less" makes this card very narrow: too narrow for us to rely upon. However, WAR has given us a new toy! Meet the new Green Sun's Zenith!
No "or less" clause on Neoform is definitely a big issue. That said, I have been testing quite a bit with Neoform since it was spoiled and plan to play 3 in the main to start.
Green Finale is a big winner in my book, Instant speed on Chord doesn't matter much outside counterspell decks or for tutoring Selfless Spirit, and all too often Convoke is flavor text given most of our creatures that we play to the board before combing simply generate mana already. Costing 1 less than Chord allows for T2 BFT and T2 Druid into Ws without a third mana. One last point is that green Finale over Chord could incentivize Simian Spirit Guide more as T1 Dork, T2 land, SSG, Finale is T2 Druid. My current list I am testing is below. Please remember this is still pretty rough so far and I'm unsure on exact numbers.
Here's why I believe Neoform is worth trying. First, I'd reiterate what I mentioned in the primer: T2 Druid is the most threatening thing our deck can do. With 4 Druid, 8 Dorks, and 4 Evo we have a 66% chance of seeing Druid or Dork + Evo in our opening hand, and a 56% chance on 6 cards. With 4 Druid, 9 Dorks, and 7 Evo/Neo, we have an 82% chance of T2 Druid in our 7, and 70% in 6. Improving our best line by ~15% is a huge deal.
Here is an explanation of why my numbers look how they do. A 9th dork is primarily there to better enable Neoform and Evolution. I have personally found Shalai to consistently underperform for me, which is why I'm happy to trade it for a 3 mana win con to allow Druid + Vizier + Neoform to be tombstones. Mirror Entity gets the pick over Ezuri or Rhonas for me because I find it is the best alt win con and it can be nice versus Thing in the Ice.
I still like a couple Incubation for the ability to dig to an out against Cage, and Incongruity for outs to random creatures like Meddling Mage, and interaction against "kill or die" creatures. Cutting a Lunge doesn't feel great, especially since Lunge actually improves quite a bit with Neoform. I am not sure whether green Finale or Lunge should be my 4-of, but have settled on 4th Lunge in the board.
No idea if I still want 10 fetches without Rallier, but fetching Dryad Arbor still happens a lot and I would like consistent access to Breeding Pool without playing a Hallowed Fountain or a second Pool. Do remember that a second blue source isn't super important for Neoform given 8/9 dorks produce blue. Fetching Breeding Pool doesn't happen as much as it might look game one. It's only really needed for Neo'ing a Llanowar Elf or winning from Druid + Vizier.
Some will be unhappy with my testing list and label it as "making our good matchups better while making bad matchups even worse." I'd argue against this saying if we're so concerned with our poor matchups we should simply be playing Abzan Company instead, not to mention that ignores that consistently threatening T2 Druids just improves what our deck aims to do in general. A deck getting copies 5-8 of a key card has been a classic reason for a large boost in power level for any deck. And most of all there's zero reason not to at least test out a new idea.
What are you risking? Maybe you're right and bolster your ego a bit. Or perhaps you're wrong and quietly hop on the train later. However, truly great players do not trust armchair assessments. They know the only way to be on the cutting edge is to playtest. Again I ask, what are you risking by trying? Maybe some hours testing or shame that an idea didn't work, but in this situation at worst you have learned that this idea is not worth it. I don't know that much is learned at all if we dismiss borderline cards, sideboard ideas, mulliganning strategy, etc.
Here's why I believe Neoform is worth trying. First, I'd reiterate what I mentioned in the primer: T2 Druid is the most threatening thing our deck can do. With 4 Druid, 8 Dorks, and 4 Evo we have a 66% chance of seeing Druid or Dork + Evo in our opening hand, and a 56% chance on 6 cards. With 4 Druid, 9 Dorks, and 7 Evo/Neo, we have an 82% chance of T2 Druid in our 7, and 70% in 6. Improving our best line by ~15% is a huge deal.
Some will be unhappy with my testing list and label it as "making our good matchups better while making bad matchups even worse." I'd argue against this saying if we're so concerned with our poor matchups we should simply be playing Abzan Company instead, not to mention that ignores that consistently threatening T2 Druids just improves what our deck aims to do in general. A deck getting copies 5-8 of a key card has been a classic reason for a large boost in power level for any deck.
You make excellent points. In fact, I think you should be all-in on Neoform for preliminary testing: 0 Incubation, 4 neoform, 10 mana dorks.
I'm also going to try a Magus of the Moon tonight. -1 Breeding Pool, +1 Stomping Grounds, -1 SB ???, +1 SB Magus of the Moon. While it misses pure GB Rock, its great against GBx, UW, and UWx, which are bad matchups in my experience.
I'm pondering bringing in Magus in other matchups:
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/competitive-modern-constructed-league-2019-02-15
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I played the deck last night, with minor changes to my list being -1 Tracker for a Chameleon Colossus to make for 2 pro black threats post board in Colossus and an Enforcer. Testing the BG matchup more, I found the majority of my wins came from the pro black creature, and a common line was two drop -> Evo it. More of them is valuable to allow for more of them naturally drawn, or seen in Incubation.
Ended up going 3-1 with wins against 4C Vannifar with Rhythm of the Wilds (aka a worse version of our deck), Burn, and Eldrazi Stompy, with a loss in the last round to UR Phoenix.
VS Vannifar. Game one I have the turn three but my opponent goes Deputy to force me to suicide Druid, into Image copy Deputy to take two Nobles. I have Lunge but I'm stuck on 4 Chord mana, so I'm unable to get Vizier. Game 2 I turn three unmolested. Game 3 I have a hand of Noble, Druid, Evo. I punt and Evolve my Noble into another Druid, confusing my Druid in hand with a Vizier for some reason. My opp goes T2 Rhythm. I draw Ballista and reluctantly Druid into of Ballista for 2, realizing this was a mistake given a third land from the opponent kills me. My opponent misses land and passes. I Ballista for 2, kill Noble, my opponent flashes in a Bellringer, bricks on land, passes. I draw Incubation, find Vizer for the win. Opponent shows me two Vannifar, ouch. I definitely misplayed twice and should have lost, but oh well.
VS Burn. I have a hand of Noble, Druid, Evo, scry Chord on top. Opp goes Guide on the draw, pass. I Druid, they Blaze it, then get turn 3'd. People get so tilted when their turn 3'd through a kill spell Game two my opponent T1 Swiftspear, I play fetch and get a tapped Temple after my opponent goes Eidolon. I Path Eidolon and fetch, shock for BFT. Opp plays 2nd Swiftspear, Charm me. I play Druid, he attacks me and Helixs preblocks on Druid. I sac BFT. I proceed to kill them with a Blaze in their hand, but on three mana it's good enough. Opp makes me play it out after getting Ballista'd game one PJSalt. Funny enough this is the same opp who wouldn't scoop after I Chalice them on 1, 2, 3 playing Burn as well.
VS E Stompy. My opponent thinks I'm on E Stompy after talking with him after R2. I go T1 Noble, T2 Druid, my opponent T3 TKSs me to see double Evo, Chord, Ballista. My opponent takes Ballista. I tank for a bit and kill him after getting Vizier, Duskwatch, into Shalai and attacks with two lethal attackers after Lunging back my Noble. Game 2 I go T2 Druid, my opponent Dismembers it. I fetch Dryad Arbor and kill on three lands with Lunge, Evo Arbor for Vizier.
VS UR Phoenix. Game 1 I have Druid in hand, but don't cast it into my opponent's T2 TitI. I Incongruity it in response to a Morphose. Opp ends up getting double Phoenix back anyway. I go Druid, Bird. Opponent Bolts Bird and me to deal exactsies. I side out Chords for 2 BFT, Skite, Selfless Spirit. I go dork into Selfless Spirit, opponent plays T2 TitI. I Incongruity it once again in response to the first spell, he chains spells into a Phoenix. I play a Druid, he Gut Shot Spirit and kill Druid. I get tempo'd out as my opp hits for three while killing anything that hits the table.
Magus of the Moon was great. He puts some serious fear into opponents. I usually nail my opponent with him in game 2 then side him out in game 3, as the opponent will be playing around him constantly anyways. For my local meta, Magus of the Moon is definitely a good choice. I think if you see more Infect, Grixis Death's Shadow, and Thing in the Ice then the Breeding Pool to support Incongruity is better than Magus (and the requisite Stomping Ground).
That 5-0 list is really heavy on card advantage (as midrange hate?) in the SB, yet no graveyard hate. I'm pretty confused about that. Also, these online lists continue to play Linvala and I just don't know why. Is Affinity so difficult?
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
Glad Magus is working well for you. I wasn't siding it in often in my metagame and the nail in the coffin for me was how awkward it is to Evo a dork into Magus since we can't combo without at least a white mana, sometimes two. Do you just not look to Evo into it on turn two much, or do you find it not difficult to fetch Forest, Plains on turn two?
I do agree the sideboard is walker heavy. I've found sideboarding to be all over the place with this deck, so I don't pay a whole lot of attention to them. It seems like they were wanting to beat Control since walkers appear to be at their best in that matchup.
You are right about awkwardness with Magus. I just do my best with it because when it works out, its worth it.
I agree that other people's sideboards are not very informative. But I still look for general patterns. And the online lists CONSISTENTLY play 1x Linvala and I still don't know why!
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
I see three main issues with Linvala.
Decks that Linvala is worth boarding in against are not well represented in the meta at large. None of the matchups are heavily unfavored. And, most of all, I don't know that Linvala is a necessary plan to begin with. When the opponent is slower than us and is light on disruption, is it better to cast and tutor bullets, or just focus our mana and tutors on goldfishing and reassembling the combo?
I will freely admit that these decks can goldfish us though, especially on the draw, so something should be brought in. However I'm not sure four drops are the best way to disrupt them. I personally would prefer bringing in Paths, and a Deputy of Detention on the draw. Path is much better than Linvala in that we can kind of tempo them by executing our gameplan while also potentially disrupting theirs.
My sideboarding mindset with Druid Evolution is that because we're the beatdown in nearly every matchup, I only need to bring in in cards when: I believe our opponent can potentially race, the combo is too difficult to reliably assemble in the face of heavy disruption, or if the opponent can prevent me from combo'ing due to cards like Cage or a Hexproof creature and Worship.
Speaking of sideboard plans, I've been liking marginal cards like Tracker and Scooze less and less. Tracker is rarely turning the tide in matchups where our opponent's postboard plan is kill everything. It too often ends up just being an expensive Harmonize. Scooze suffers from the same issue against fair decks, while I've found it to be an anemic answer against graveyard decks when the best plan for Dredge is to simply race them and rely on BFT to stop Conflag + Axe and Reanimator decks are fixed for me with Meddling Mage.
I have replaced them in my sideboard for a third pro black creature and a third BFT. I've found the most difficult matchups to be BGx, URx, Mardu, and disruptive aggro decks like Phoenix, Burn, and Shadow. Burrenton-Forge Tender is hands down the best protection creature for Bolt decks because, similar to Lunge, we can still threaten turn 3 wins. Discard decks are the one matchup I believe we have to lean into a beatdown plan postboard, and pro black creatures are extremely good at giving us a plan B. Planeswalkers also work and can better enable a beatdown plan against Control, but I've found URx Control to not be popular enough to play more Gideons.
This is my current sideboard:
3 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Meddling Mage
1 Deputy of Detention
1 Knight of Autumn
1 Mystic Enforcer
2 Chameleon Colossus
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
I agree with your evaluation of Tracker. I'm not quite on the same boat with Scooze. Scooze is vital for beating Tarmogoyf decks and decent against Snapcaster/Logic Knot/Search for Azcanta decks. However, it doesn't seem to hate on GRAVEYARD decks properly (which is where I agree with your evaluation of Scooze). Further, to use Scooze effectively as hate, you have to forgo your other development, which is a terrible tradeoff. That is the real reason I'm liking Scooze less. Maybe a 1x Remorseful Cleric over 1x Scooze?
I'm open to increasing the number of planeswalkers and/or pro-black creatures. However, I think Mystic Enforcer, Chameleon Colossus, and Gideon AoZ do not cover all of our weak spots. I think we need something that beats BG Rock. Unfortunately, I think the right answer is Elspeth, Sun's Champion but that's obviously not an option. Could Nissa, Steward of Elements work? I have seen her in a few sideboards. Mirran Crusader is too narrow.
In reference to your sideboard: I'm surprised to see zero Arcane Laboratory effects. Eidolon of Rhetoric is pretty good at keeping Phoenix in the GY and slowing the TitI flip. Also relevant against many other decks. The inability to slam multiple combo pieces in a row FTW is unfortunate, but Eidolon buys so much time in so many matchups.
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
I've observed that Scooze has the same issues as Tracker in fair matchups. It can run away with the game, but too often it just gets one-for-one'd with little to no impact. I haven't experimented much with planeswalkers outside of Gideon AoZ, or cards with CMC greater than 4. I've found pro black creature do tend to win the game vs BG and DS when they hit the table, so I've moved to three to naturally draw them more and see them in more Incubations.
I've found Meddling Mage does a good enough Eidolon impression in combo matchups without slowing me down or shutting off cards that I'm okay without it or Canonist. Phoenix is the matchup it seems like we'd want Eidolon over Mage for, but the card puts us in a very bizarre gamestate that sometimes is good enough, but the better the Phoenix player, the worse it ends up being in my experience.
They have enough removal to disrupt us anytime we commit a Druid to the board. Lunge is almost turned off unless a mana sink and Vizier are on the table, and if they are, we get two-for-one'd and our Druid exiled if they kill the mana sink. I end up giving them a bunch of time to draw into Flame Slash/Axe and it's difficult to win at all if they draw TitI or Surgical in the meantime.
I do like Eidolon when BFT is drawn too, or if we go Eidolon into Shalai. I will try testing more with a focused gameplan of: get Eidolon on the table, get BFT or Shalai, then start committing combo pieces to the board. We could always try that new hot anti TitI tech that I saw some Bant Spirits players trying. Just put Mirror Entity in play and activate it for one to make your board Horrors.
---
Have any of you all considered what Druid Evolution would look like if Green Sun's Zenith is ever unbanned? I toyed around with a hypothetical decklist that just trades Incubation for GSZ and wow is it nuts. An extra mana dork or T2 Druid in conjunction with a T1 dork would really take this deck to another level. Keep 4 in your TCGplayer cart anytime a B&R rolls around
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Devoted Druid
4 Vizier of Remedies
3 Duskwatch Recruiter
1 Eternal Witness
2 Shalai
1 Walking Ballista
4 Eldritch Evolution
4 Chord of Calling
4 Postmortem Lunge
21 land
3 Path to Exile
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Burrenton Forge-tender
2 Meddling Mage
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Riftsweeper
1 Chameleon Colossus
1 Mystic Enforcer
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
I'm not sure how the Meddling Mages will perform, but Eidolon of Rhetoric (or any Arcane Laboratory effect) is too much of a hindrance to us for it to be a viable anti-combo plan.
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
Interesting card spoiled for Modern Horizons today. Seems like a card to consider for its ability to compress two sideboard slots into one: combining a planeswalker with Worship. Worse against Midrange and Control than Gideon AoZ, but the ability to have an extra slot against removal light creature decks is neat.
A 2WW Serra Angel that leaves behind a planeswalker is a solid baseline. Serra makes an angel once every three turns, or can go angel, uptick, angel if you're okay with throwing it away.
The uptick is more or less flavor text in our deck, but Suspend 1 unanswerable Worhsip may be absolutely horrendous card design, but it definitely has the ability to steal games. I will say the plan of going straight to emblem is worse than it looks when considering it's game ending against decks that flood the board, so it may be hard to protect. That said, going downtick into plus three times, ultimate could work given a 4/4 vigilant flyer is a great blocker.
My initial impression is that, like all marginal cards, it's worth testing and thinking about, but unless Worship is a card I know I want, it's not immediately a card I know is playable like with Incubation and Deputy of Detention.
What are your thoughts everyone?
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
Also, I realized that Death's Shadow matchup is not QUITE as bad as it could be due to our ability to shoot their Temur Battle Raged guy. It's unfortunate to have to not use Incubation AND hold mana up, but its an important interaction especially when it saves you 10+ points of life. It is an out that I haven't been playing towards and may have won me a match on Saturday if I had realized it at that time.
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
I went 3-1 this weekend after facing Dredge, Bant Eldrazi, Grixis Shadow, then losing to Sultai Teachings in the last round. Combo control with 1 CMC removal is certainly tough. Ordinary Sultai Control just dies to the pro black creatures, but we don't have the time to try and beatdown. I'll have to see if boarding in protection creatures or Pridemages and Meddling Mage is best. Could be a play draw thing.
GW splashing U for Incongruity and nothing else makes it to T16
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Temple Garden
1 Breeding Pool
2 Forest
1 Plains
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Devoted Druid
4 Vizier of Remedies
3 Duskwatch Recruiter
2 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Walking Ballista
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Eldritch Evolution
4 Chord of Calling
4 Postmortem Lunge
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Kataki, War’s Wage
1 Knight of Autumn
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
2 Tireless Tracker
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Path to Exile
2 Stony Silence
2 Surgical Extraction
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Speaking of TitI, my friend mentioned to me a few weeks ago how Mirror Entity is some cute tech vs TitI because you make everything Horrors. Kind of clever. Now today I see someone 5-0'd a league using Abzan Company with one. Those of you on two Shalai might give it a shot? It's sort of similar? You get a mana sink but annoyingly demands a W, and it offers a bit of a beatdown plan B. Granted, it dies to a stiff breeze as a 1/1 naturally. Interestingly, you can kind of get a rebate on your mana with Mirror and Druid in play as well. You can pump your team big, swing, bait some removal in combat, then post combat combo using some "hidden mana" from a big Druid.
Wow, neat new card in WAR. I'm interested in trying out a 2:2 split with it and Incubation. Not as good as it might initially look because the only way to get a combo piece is with a dork (no "or less" clause). That said, cool how it doesn't exile--Eternal Witness--and it gives a +1/+1 counter, meaning Druid can make 3 mana in one turn, which means only two lands are needed to Chord for Vizier on T3.
Meet the new Green Sun's Zenith!
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
Chord of calling is often too slow when I play the deck, so a cheaper version that can serve as a kill in itself is definitely appreciated.
Green Finale is a big winner in my book, Instant speed on Chord doesn't matter much outside counterspell decks or for tutoring Selfless Spirit, and all too often Convoke is flavor text given most of our creatures that we play to the board before combing simply generate mana already. Costing 1 less than Chord allows for T2 BFT and T2 Druid into Ws without a third mana. One last point is that green Finale over Chord could incentivize Simian Spirit Guide more as T1 Dork, T2 land, SSG, Finale is T2 Druid. My current list I am testing is below. Please remember this is still pretty rough so far and I'm unsure on exact numbers.
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Temple Garden
1 Breeding Pool
3 Forest
1 Plains
3 Horizon Canopy
Creatures (24)
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Llanowar Elves
4 Devoted Druid
4 Vizier of Remedies
3 Duskwatch Recruiter
1 Walking Ballista
1 Mirror Entity
1 Eternal Witness
2 Incubation // Incongruity
3 Neoform
4 Eldritch Evolution
4 Finale of Devestation
3 Postmortem Lunge
3 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Chameleon Colossus
1 Deputy of Detention
1 Knight of Autumn
1 Meddling Mage
1 Mystic Enforcer
2 Path to Exile
1 Postmortem Lunge
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Spellskite
Here is an explanation of why my numbers look how they do. A 9th dork is primarily there to better enable Neoform and Evolution. I have personally found Shalai to consistently underperform for me, which is why I'm happy to trade it for a 3 mana win con to allow Druid + Vizier + Neoform to be tombstones. Mirror Entity gets the pick over Ezuri or Rhonas for me because I find it is the best alt win con and it can be nice versus Thing in the Ice.
I still like a couple Incubation for the ability to dig to an out against Cage, and Incongruity for outs to random creatures like Meddling Mage, and interaction against "kill or die" creatures. Cutting a Lunge doesn't feel great, especially since Lunge actually improves quite a bit with Neoform. I am not sure whether green Finale or Lunge should be my 4-of, but have settled on 4th Lunge in the board.
No idea if I still want 10 fetches without Rallier, but fetching Dryad Arbor still happens a lot and I would like consistent access to Breeding Pool without playing a Hallowed Fountain or a second Pool. Do remember that a second blue source isn't super important for Neoform given 8/9 dorks produce blue. Fetching Breeding Pool doesn't happen as much as it might look game one. It's only really needed for Neo'ing a Llanowar Elf or winning from Druid + Vizier.
Some will be unhappy with my testing list and label it as "making our good matchups better while making bad matchups even worse." I'd argue against this saying if we're so concerned with our poor matchups we should simply be playing Abzan Company instead, not to mention that ignores that consistently threatening T2 Druids just improves what our deck aims to do in general. A deck getting copies 5-8 of a key card has been a classic reason for a large boost in power level for any deck. And most of all there's zero reason not to at least test out a new idea.
What are you risking? Maybe you're right and bolster your ego a bit. Or perhaps you're wrong and quietly hop on the train later. However, truly great players do not trust armchair assessments. They know the only way to be on the cutting edge is to playtest. Again I ask, what are you risking by trying? Maybe some hours testing or shame that an idea didn't work, but in this situation at worst you have learned that this idea is not worth it. I don't know that much is learned at all if we dismiss borderline cards, sideboard ideas, mulliganning strategy, etc.
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival