Yea, I'm sure moment of craving is too cute. Oh well it was a nice thought.
After playing about 15 matches with Isochron, I only got 2 for 1'd once, and that was my own fault. If you wait until turn 4 or later to cast it against decks that can destroy it you're gauranteed at least 1 activation which makes it a clean trade.
With my limited experience so far, I'd say the only real downside to scepter is that against effecient black discard matches (BGx, Shadow) they can force you to spend most of your resources and strip your hand stranding the scepter without a card to imprint, happened to me only once so far, but I could see it being an issue.
And on the opposite side of things, watching your opponent effectively mulligan when they draw artifact removal in post board games after you take out scepter has been phenomenal.
I saw Hoogland playing a sultai control list the other day. It was an interesting take and gave me ideas for a new take on this deck. Here it is - I will test it on Tuesday:
Pulse of Murasa looks really good here with the flash threats. The only thing I might suggest is some number of Vendilion Clique,maybe over some number of obstructionist, 4 seems like a lot.
Pulse is a really good card, basically a green (anti-)Kolaghan's Command. I'd be wary of shoving too many 3 drops into a deck that already runs Snapcaster Mage, so I'd cut some of those and try to lower the curve. Spell Snare is really good atm, and hand disruption allows us to hamper our opponents tempo to slow them down, so I'd look into that. The old adage that counterspells and hand disruption doesn't work together should be put to rest, as long as there's an overarching gameplan where you take control of the late game or tempo out your opponent there is no reason to follow the gospel tbh.
Small adjustments to the SB, trying out Golgari Charm for a bit. I'm probably going to change it to a second Countersquall or EE though. I really can't overstate how good this list feels.
Finally some activity here! I almost thought I was the only one hyped about BUg Control for a while there!
I need to playtest one of these Obstructionist lists asap, because I think they're hard to evaluate just based on a list. They look too slow imho, but without playing it I think it's just too hard to give any decent feedback. What are your experiences on different matchups so far?
I've played a lot of UB Control in the past and I don't really think what it was missing was a catch-all threat like Assassin's Trophy. The biggest thing it was really missing was White "gotcha" cards like Stony Silence and RIP. It was amazing in fair match ups (and often won control mirrors) but the unfair match ups were really hard. I'm not sure Green (Assassin's Trophy) adds all that much to the deck to be honest. If you're going Sultai you should definitely play it but I would be more interested if there was a better reason to play Green. Being able to kill anything is cool but in reality UB has tools for everything besides artifacts and enchantments which aren't that prevalent in modern (at least not in my experience).
I think Pulse of Murasa is really cool but being a 3 drop can be tough. Green Control decks in the past have played Explore to help ramp up to Cryptic Command a Turn early which is exactly what Hoogland's build wants to do. I've seen some interesting BUG Mystical Teachings decks that I'm interested in trying but are probably too slow for the current meta. Some sort of BUGw Gifts deck could also work to try to leverage Life from the Loam.
Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that UB is already very strong and Assassin's Trophy doesn't seem to help much from my perspective as a UB player. BUG needs a good reason to be in Green and that's tough without trending midrange toward Goyf and Trackers.
I definitely wish teachings was better.
Before jace, I played a bug teachings deck on occasion that was a blast, but I don't think it quite cuts its anymore, which is a shame since trophy is a great addition to teachings, no longer requiring a bunch of different bullets.
Finally some activity here! I almost thought I was the only one hyped about BUg Control for a while there!
I need to playtest one of these Obstructionist lists asap, because I think they're hard to evaluate just based on a list. They look too slow imho, but without playing it I think it's just too hard to give any decent feedback. What are your experiences on different matchups so far?
To be honest, I do not play competitive magic that much these days; just playing with friends. The deck is what you can expect from a typical control deck, with unfair decks - in particular dredge - being difficult game 1.
I've played a lot of UB Control in the past and I don't really think what it was missing was a catch-all threat like Assassin's Trophy. The biggest thing it was really missing was White "gotcha" cards like Stony Silence and RIP. It was amazing in fair match ups (and often won control mirrors) but the unfair match ups were really hard. I'm not sure Green (Assassin's Trophy) adds all that much to the deck to be honest. If you're going Sultai you should definitely play it but I would be more interested if there was a better reason to play Green. Being able to kill anything is cool but in reality UB has tools for everything besides artifacts and enchantments which aren't that prevalent in modern (at least not in my experience).
I think Pulse of Murasa is really cool but being a 3 drop can be tough. Green Control decks in the past have played Explore to help ramp up to Cryptic Command a Turn early which is exactly what Hoogland's build wants to do. I've seen some interesting BUG Mystical Teachings decks that I'm interested in trying but are probably too slow for the current meta. Some sort of BUGw Gifts deck could also work to try to leverage Life from the Loam.
Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that UB is already very strong and Assassin's Trophy doesn't seem to help much from my perspective as a UB player. BUG needs a good reason to be in Green and that's tough without trending midrange toward Goyf and Trackers.
I am not sure I would go that route. Teachings is fun (I have played it also) but being a 4 drop then a 6 drop is really killing it in the current format.
Blue has always missed decent removal, so this is what you get by playing sultai; with the chance that you can win games by screwing your opponent out of mana / a certain colour of mana.
I wasn't trying to say you should definitely play teachings or anything. I'm saying I don't really see a good reason to go Green with this deck. Assassin's Trophy is cool and all but it doesn't add much. The thought of unconditional removal gets people really excited but there are so few situations in modern where you really need it and adding a third color makes a big difference for a control mana base.
Trophy "doesn't add much"? Oh please, you obviously haven't played with the card.
Thanks to Trophy I'm playing a deck that casually runs UW control out of wincons while at the same time has a favorable MU vs combo and midrange G1. The width of decks a card like Trophy allows us to control is almost absurd, and the mana efficiency of the card makes it a natural fit for a Snapcaster deck. That's also where much of the strength lies. Being able to Trophy 1-2 things is rarely back breaking, which is why we haven't seen the card make GBx the all-powerful deck some thought - However, when you resolve your fourth Trophy against most decks, they have no gas left and are basically like a turtle on its back.
Yes, I haven't played with the card. But UB Control is already favored against UWx and Midrange (in my experience). I'm not sure what combo you're talking about but I can't think of a combo deck that Trophy helps against. It certainly doesn't do anything against Dredge / Bridgevine / Hollow One. It doesn't change the Company match up meaningfully. It doesn't help against Storm. Could you elaborate which combo deck you're talking about?
The only match ups I could see Trophy really making a difference is against Valakut / Tron / Non-creature Artifact decks. But with Unmoored Ego we have a new way to fight big mana. And if those decks are really an issue you could play spreading seas. So yes, Trophy doesn't add much. It's a great card, but not the card I feel like UB Control needed.
I'm not trying to bash the deck, I'm trying to help. I think Green has a lot of powerful tools that should be explored, I just don't think adding only Trophy warrants the concessions you make in your mana base.
Give the new Vraska GQ a try. She's quite good. She's not an OMG Jace or LotV. Worst case scenario she's a bad decay that eats a bolt which is STILL 2 for 1. Best case scenario? They're top decking and she's sitting near ult with repeatable decays at your disposal. It's not like BUG can't abuse whatever permanent you sac with recursion or graveyard schinanigans. I wouldn't ball out with 4, but 2 is a good number here. Like it or not all the best stuff in bug is graveyard orientated. Save the counter spells for the Gy hate.
If you're on the replay astro/decay with snap train. Sac a snap and do it again or just outright -3 her. They will run out of threats fast.
If you're on the flayer train she can help turn him on or kill stuff in the way.
You could simply run grim flayer/snap with Jace, LtLH, Vraska GQ with azcanta and whatever disruption package you want and put up good results. That about half the deck with 8 creatures 8 walks and a pair of az.
This looks like more of a BGx deck than a UBx deck. So it plays Bob / Goyf over Cryptic / Damnation. Which is a good play and all but doesn't seem to exactly fit with the thread. I think 4x Snapcaster is too many. it's only playing 18 targets mainboard. Besides that I don't like the exclusion of Scavenging Ooze. Seems like it has a tough burn match up (looking at the sideboard) but it seems like Green is the least used color so it makes sense. Other than that I really like the sideboard.
I think Tracker is a good inclusion for a UBg deck. Maybe play some tasigurs too. What do you guys think of a list like this?
So growth spiral seemed like a card that was pushing me into looking at sultai control again. I realize that might seem odd to many but just having 4 more cards at instant speed that cantrip and advance the board seems really good to me. My build is very different as you’ll see so I’m not running any hand disrupting. I fact I’m only even playing 3 1 cmc spells. I feel like this will save me a little life in an aggro meta as well as make my 4 etbt lands seem like 1 drops (also good with instant speed explore). This list will need a lot of testing still.
Because BB is black and plays with sprites well. How is fetch or shock cast a 1 drop better vs aggro though? That's to say nothing of fetch shock ts so I'm at 15 to start. What makes white better vs aggro?
Hey all, i'm glad to see a sultai board with some activity.
Right now UB control is showing some results, and maybe we could take some insight from that. The disruption from discard and countermagic does truly work, and is very effective, but we need to make sure we don't have sorcery speed and instant speed spells in our hands bumping into each other.
Also leaning too much in the greaveyard, like including delve tarmos snaps all in big amounts makes us suceptible to gy hate, I think we need a small gy splash to take advantage of it, but not as much as to be totally hosed by it (a la jund style)
Color is also important, I think we all believe dammnation, liliana and cryptic are more important cards than double green offers, not choking our manabase is the first thing that makes us just a worse UB control.
Growth spiral seems like a good card, but i think we just like thought scour better as a cantrip, since it already ramps us towards delve, doesnt need an early green mana and lesser mana cost. If we DO go for the spiral builds we need a better lategame, leaned more into cryptics, consume the meeks geahulks or pulses, manlands and more lands (maybe tracker would be a good one on these builds?).
All in all sultai are the value colors, we have more than enough two for 1s, card draw advantage and answers, we are really good at grinding but all that grind package sometimes means we close games slowly and get beaten by a topdeck bloodbraid, titan or combo piece, that's why recent sultai decks with mtgo results show more flayers, tarmos and shadow decks.
I'll be posting my test decks and let's hope new ravnica brings us some good pieces
good luck and happy brewing
I have 50 players tornament next week i hope to make top 8. Some slot is flexible but i tested vs Jeskai or Uw control, infect,Izzet phoenix, tron and burn and it's fine. More test this week.
Blue Black Control. My jam. My first love. Too bad it's never been all that good in modern, putting up no major results. As in today's current degenerate meta, the chances of that happening are as low as ever.
Why can't UB cut it? There are three main reasons I've noticed after trying to get it to work the past 5 years:
1. You can't handle resolved non-creature permanents very well.
2. After you've stabilized you can still get burned or aggro'd out if you don't draw the exact cards you need.
3. You can have a hard time switching to attack mode and closing out games. Especially now, there is no time to durdle.
With the printing of Assassin's Trophy, we've finally got the solution to #1 and with some well chosen spells (Pulse of Murasa, Collective Brutality), we can take care of #2. For #3 I use 3 Creeping Tar Pits, 1 Kalitas, Trator of Ghet, 4 Snapcasters and 2 Torrential Gearhulks. I would give them a B- in that regard, there is room for improvement but the Gearhulks can help end the game pretty quickly.
Here is my current iteration the I hope to take to GP Toronto next weekend:
After playing the list for 20+ matches I made the above changes to suit my playstyle and the decks glaring lack of ability to handle graveyard issues.
I got rid of the Nimble Obstructionists, I found them too cute. I replaced one with a Kalitas to at least give the deck one anti-graveyard card in the main. It has also helped shore up the Burn matchup against the new Skewer the Critics / Light Up the Stage style builds.
The other two Obstructionists were removed for a Maelstrom Pulse and a Countersquall. Pulse is another pseudo-boardwipe (especially against Lingering Souls which was sometimes an issue) and serves as a lesser Assassin's Trophy #5. I also felt I didn't have enough counterspells to go against UW or Jeskai Control and the 2 damage from Countersquall partially helps alleviate the issue of losing 2 creatures. The B cost in Countersquall hasn't been an issue but I'd ad a Negate over a second squall in the main if I needed to.
In the sideboard I've made a number of tweaks compared to the original Hoogland list. I've added in Surgical Extraction and another Kalitas to help shore up graveyard matchups. I got rid of the Disdainful Strokes, I've always prefered Negate to them. I also reluctantly dropped one "Wet Ball" (Damping Sphere) to make room for the Kalitas, having the second in the sideboard has proven very valuable in many matchups.
The one card I am really unsure about now is Consume the Meek. Back in a humans dominated meta it was so powerful, especially with Torrential Gearhulk, but with humans at a lower popularity and Spirits partially taking over that role (thanks Selfless Spirit) I'm not sure if it is worth the spot now. I find myself siding it out in a lot of matchups and am considering alterntives. Ideas? Either another removal spell or another modal spell like Sultai Charm, Discovery/Dispersal, Dimir Charm or even Golgari Charm that can handle many different situations are my first thoughts for that spot.
I prefer counterspells over discard so I only have 2 Collective Brutality for discard in the deck. With Assassin's Trophy and more counters I've had no trouble, I'd rather top-deck Trophy or Brutality over Thoughtseize 99% of the time even though Thoughtseize is the superior discard spell in the first few turns.
The deck is built to be as low to the ground as possible, there is very little filler other than the Opts which are required to help hit land drops with the assistance of the Pulses.
I am fairly happy with my changes but am still mulling a few things I would like to get some feedback on what I've got before the GP. Assassin's Trophy and Pulse of Murasa just add so much to the base UB, I'm so happy I found the Hoogland list as a starting point. I feel like I can tweak this archtype to a solid Tier 2-ish spot, which is all I expect from a control deck.
If I'm able to attend, I'll post a report here. I don't expect to do that well since I've only entered small (less than 50 people) tournaments before.
Also if people want me to write this up into a guide let me know, this is the modern archtype that I will be focusing on this year.
I've noticed that the meta has gone crazy with turn 3-ish kill Phoenix and supercharged burn lately and that is not good for this deck.
To counter that I've made changes to my list above. I've swapped the Consume the Meek for another Collective Brutality and changed the Maelstrom Pulse to a nice little card I've found, Tribute to Hunger.
Tribute to Hunger
B & 2 Generic
Instant
Target player sacrifices a creature. You gain life equal to that creature's toughness.
This can help stabilize against aggro and gives us an out vs indestructible/hexproof creatures. I will continue testing with this list.
Tribute to hunger is going to be far too slow against pheonix - you said yourself these decks are killing by turn 3; you wont be able to cast it on the draw, and on the play you get to temporarily slow down a pheonix and gain 2 life. You'd be better off with Moment of Craving, but I don't think that's a very good card either.
You need to disrupt them on the first couple turns to allow yourself to get to the mid game where you can get a Kalitas or some else that can brick the pheonixes going late. Spell Pierce has been my go to lately in blue control decks to slow down pheonix, but if I was in UBx I would probably be running some number of Nihil Spellbomb in the maindeck as well as Pulse of Murasa and Faerie Macabre out of the sideboard.
After playing about 15 matches with Isochron, I only got 2 for 1'd once, and that was my own fault. If you wait until turn 4 or later to cast it against decks that can destroy it you're gauranteed at least 1 activation which makes it a clean trade.
With my limited experience so far, I'd say the only real downside to scepter is that against effecient black discard matches (BGx, Shadow) they can force you to spend most of your resources and strip your hand stranding the scepter without a card to imprint, happened to me only once so far, but I could see it being an issue.
And on the opposite side of things, watching your opponent effectively mulligan when they draw artifact removal in post board games after you take out scepter has been phenomenal.
4 Nimble Obstructionist
1 Tombstalker
1 Dream Eater
2 Search for Azcanta
2 Pulse of Murasa
4 Assassin's Trophy
3 Fatal Push
2 Logic Knot
4 Opt
2 Cryptic Command
1 Echoing Truth
3 Field of Ruin
2 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Polluted Delta
2 Watery Grave
3 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Breeding Pool
2 Hinterland Harbor
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Damnation
2 Collective Brutality
1 Carnage Tyrant
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Consume the Meek
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Golgari Charm
1 Dispel
2 Countersquall
1 Fatal Push
1 Dismember
2 Unmoored Ego
1 Bontu's Last Reckoning
https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/25-09-18-bug-control/?cb=1539948681
Small adjustments to the SB, trying out Golgari Charm for a bit. I'm probably going to change it to a second Countersquall or EE though. I really can't overstate how good this list feels.
// 10 Creature
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Nimble Obstructionist
1 Walking Ballista
1 Torrential Gearhulk
// 19 Instant
3 Fatal Push
4 Assassin's Trophy
3 Cryptic Command
2 Pulse of Murasa
1 Consume the Meek
1 Suffer the Past
2 Logic Knot
3 Opt
// 24 Land
4 Field of Ruin
4 Polluted Delta
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Watery Grave
1 Breeding Pool
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Hinterland Harbor
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
// 5 Sorcery
3 Serum Visions
2 Damnation
2 Damping Sphere
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Shriekmaw
1 Dispel
2 Countersquall
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Abrupt Decay
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Damnation
1 Bontu's Last Reckoning
I need to playtest one of these Obstructionist lists asap, because I think they're hard to evaluate just based on a list. They look too slow imho, but without playing it I think it's just too hard to give any decent feedback. What are your experiences on different matchups so far?
I think Pulse of Murasa is really cool but being a 3 drop can be tough. Green Control decks in the past have played Explore to help ramp up to Cryptic Command a Turn early which is exactly what Hoogland's build wants to do. I've seen some interesting BUG Mystical Teachings decks that I'm interested in trying but are probably too slow for the current meta. Some sort of BUGw Gifts deck could also work to try to leverage Life from the Loam.
Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that UB is already very strong and Assassin's Trophy doesn't seem to help much from my perspective as a UB player. BUG needs a good reason to be in Green and that's tough without trending midrange toward Goyf and Trackers.
Before jace, I played a bug teachings deck on occasion that was a blast, but I don't think it quite cuts its anymore, which is a shame since trophy is a great addition to teachings, no longer requiring a bunch of different bullets.
To be honest, I do not play competitive magic that much these days; just playing with friends. The deck is what you can expect from a typical control deck, with unfair decks - in particular dredge - being difficult game 1.
I am not sure I would go that route. Teachings is fun (I have played it also) but being a 4 drop then a 6 drop is really killing it in the current format.
Blue has always missed decent removal, so this is what you get by playing sultai; with the chance that you can win games by screwing your opponent out of mana / a certain colour of mana.
Thanks to Trophy I'm playing a deck that casually runs UW control out of wincons while at the same time has a favorable MU vs combo and midrange G1. The width of decks a card like Trophy allows us to control is almost absurd, and the mana efficiency of the card makes it a natural fit for a Snapcaster deck. That's also where much of the strength lies. Being able to Trophy 1-2 things is rarely back breaking, which is why we haven't seen the card make GBx the all-powerful deck some thought - However, when you resolve your fourth Trophy against most decks, they have no gas left and are basically like a turtle on its back.
The only match ups I could see Trophy really making a difference is against Valakut / Tron / Non-creature Artifact decks. But with Unmoored Ego we have a new way to fight big mana. And if those decks are really an issue you could play spreading seas. So yes, Trophy doesn't add much. It's a great card, but not the card I feel like UB Control needed.
I'm not trying to bash the deck, I'm trying to help. I think Green has a lot of powerful tools that should be explored, I just don't think adding only Trophy warrants the concessions you make in your mana base.
If you're on the replay astro/decay with snap train. Sac a snap and do it again or just outright -3 her. They will run out of threats fast.
If you're on the flayer train she can help turn him on or kill stuff in the way.
You could simply run grim flayer/snap with Jace, LtLH, Vraska GQ with azcanta and whatever disruption package you want and put up good results. That about half the deck with 8 creatures 8 walks and a pair of az.
5-0'ed a modern league.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1377266#paper
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Assassin's Trophy
2 Blooming Marsh
1 Breeding Pool
2 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Dark Confidant
2 Darkslick Shores
4 Fatal Push
2 Forest
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Island
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Mana Leak
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Overgrown Tomb
3 Polluted Delta
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Swamp
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Thoughtseize
2 Tireless Tracker
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Watery Grave
2 Countersquall
2 Damnation
2 Kitchen Finks
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Life Goes On
2 Unmoored Ego
1 Vendilion Clique
I think Tracker is a good inclusion for a UBg deck. Maybe play some tasigurs too. What do you guys think of a list like this?
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Creatures (9)
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tireless Tracker
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Sorceries (12)
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
4 Serum Visions
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Damnation
Instants(8)
3 Assassin's Trophy
3 Fatal Push
2 Cryptic Command
2 Breeding Pool
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Forest
3 Island
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Overgrown Tomb
4 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
1 Verdant Catacombs
2 Watery Grave
1 Lumbering Falls
3 Field of Ruin
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Collective Brutality
3 Countersquall
1 To the Slaughter
3 Unmoored Ego
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
3 Mystic Snake
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Vendilion Clique
Instant (17)
3 Assassin's Trophy
2 Cryptic Command
3 Fatal Push
4 Growth Spiral
1 Pulse of Murasa
4 Remand
Planeswalker (3)
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Vraska, Golgari Queen
2 Bitterblossom
Land (24)
2 Breeding Pool
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Faerie Conclave
2 Field of Ruin
1 Forest
3 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Overgrown Tomb
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
1 Treetop Village
2 Watery Grave
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Disdainful Stroke
1 Dismember
1 Nature's Claim
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pulse of Murasa
1 Sultai Charm
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Unmoored Ego
I think you need 1 drops to keep up with the aggro decks.
Right now UB control is showing some results, and maybe we could take some insight from that. The disruption from discard and countermagic does truly work, and is very effective, but we need to make sure we don't have sorcery speed and instant speed spells in our hands bumping into each other.
Also leaning too much in the greaveyard, like including delve tarmos snaps all in big amounts makes us suceptible to gy hate, I think we need a small gy splash to take advantage of it, but not as much as to be totally hosed by it (a la jund style)
Color is also important, I think we all believe dammnation, liliana and cryptic are more important cards than double green offers, not choking our manabase is the first thing that makes us just a worse UB control.
Growth spiral seems like a good card, but i think we just like thought scour better as a cantrip, since it already ramps us towards delve, doesnt need an early green mana and lesser mana cost. If we DO go for the spiral builds we need a better lategame, leaned more into cryptics, consume the meeks geahulks or pulses, manlands and more lands (maybe tracker would be a good one on these builds?).
All in all sultai are the value colors, we have more than enough two for 1s, card draw advantage and answers, we are really good at grinding but all that grind package sometimes means we close games slowly and get beaten by a topdeck bloodbraid, titan or combo piece, that's why recent sultai decks with mtgo results show more flayers, tarmos and shadow decks.
I'll be posting my test decks and let's hope new ravnica brings us some good pieces
good luck and happy brewing
UR Drake
Modern:
WBGCompany, UGInfect, RBGDredge
I am enjoy too to see people trying to build sultai in modern.
I am a legacy player and in modern i am training this list :
2 Tireless Tracker
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Watery Grave
3 Tarmogoyf
2 Thoughtseize
1 Darkslick Shores
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Fatal Push
4 Serum Visions
1 Logic Knot
2 Swamp
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Forest
4 Polluted Delta
2 Cryptic Command
1 Nissa, Steward of Elements
3 Field of Ruin
2 Collective Brutality
1 Breeding Pool
3 Island
2 Liliana of the Veil
3 Assassin's Trophy
SB: 1 Liliana, the Last Hope
SB: 1 Flaying Tendrils
SB: 2 Damping Sphere
SB: 1 Ceremonious Rejection
SB: 1 Pulse of Murasa
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 Unmoored Ego
SB: 2 Dispel
SB: 1 Damnation
SB: 2 Nihil Spellbomb
I have 50 players tornament next week i hope to make top 8. Some slot is flexible but i tested vs Jeskai or Uw control, infect,Izzet phoenix, tron and burn and it's fine. More test this week.
Why can't UB cut it? There are three main reasons I've noticed after trying to get it to work the past 5 years:
1. You can't handle resolved non-creature permanents very well.
2. After you've stabilized you can still get burned or aggro'd out if you don't draw the exact cards you need.
3. You can have a hard time switching to attack mode and closing out games. Especially now, there is no time to durdle.
With the printing of Assassin's Trophy, we've finally got the solution to #1 and with some well chosen spells (Pulse of Murasa, Collective Brutality), we can take care of #2. For #3 I use 3 Creeping Tar Pits, 1 Kalitas, Trator of Ghet, 4 Snapcasters and 2 Torrential Gearhulks. I would give them a B- in that regard, there is room for improvement but the Gearhulks can help end the game pretty quickly.
Here is my current iteration the I hope to take to GP Toronto next weekend:
4 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
3 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Watery Grave
2 Breeding Pool
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Drowned Catacomb
2 Field of Ruin
4 Island
2 Swamp
1 Forest
CREATURES (7)
2 Torrential Gearhulk
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Damnation
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Collective Brutality
INSTANTS (22)
1 Consume the Meek
4 Assassin's Trophy
4 Fatal Push
4 Cryptic Command
2 Logic Knot
1 Countersquall
2 Pulse of Murasa
4 Opt
OTHER (1)
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Damnation
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Negate
1 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Dispel
2 Unmoored Ego
2 Damping Sphere
2 Surgical Extraction
As some might notice the starting point is the Jeff Hoogland list that is on his website at:
https://www.jeffhoogland.com/decklists/sultai-control/
After playing the list for 20+ matches I made the above changes to suit my playstyle and the decks glaring lack of ability to handle graveyard issues.
I got rid of the Nimble Obstructionists, I found them too cute. I replaced one with a Kalitas to at least give the deck one anti-graveyard card in the main. It has also helped shore up the Burn matchup against the new Skewer the Critics / Light Up the Stage style builds.
The other two Obstructionists were removed for a Maelstrom Pulse and a Countersquall. Pulse is another pseudo-boardwipe (especially against Lingering Souls which was sometimes an issue) and serves as a lesser Assassin's Trophy #5. I also felt I didn't have enough counterspells to go against UW or Jeskai Control and the 2 damage from Countersquall partially helps alleviate the issue of losing 2 creatures. The B cost in Countersquall hasn't been an issue but I'd ad a Negate over a second squall in the main if I needed to.
In the sideboard I've made a number of tweaks compared to the original Hoogland list. I've added in Surgical Extraction and another Kalitas to help shore up graveyard matchups. I got rid of the Disdainful Strokes, I've always prefered Negate to them. I also reluctantly dropped one "Wet Ball" (Damping Sphere) to make room for the Kalitas, having the second in the sideboard has proven very valuable in many matchups.
The one card I am really unsure about now is Consume the Meek. Back in a humans dominated meta it was so powerful, especially with Torrential Gearhulk, but with humans at a lower popularity and Spirits partially taking over that role (thanks Selfless Spirit) I'm not sure if it is worth the spot now. I find myself siding it out in a lot of matchups and am considering alterntives. Ideas? Either another removal spell or another modal spell like Sultai Charm, Discovery/Dispersal, Dimir Charm or even Golgari Charm that can handle many different situations are my first thoughts for that spot.
I prefer counterspells over discard so I only have 2 Collective Brutality for discard in the deck. With Assassin's Trophy and more counters I've had no trouble, I'd rather top-deck Trophy or Brutality over Thoughtseize 99% of the time even though Thoughtseize is the superior discard spell in the first few turns.
The deck is built to be as low to the ground as possible, there is very little filler other than the Opts which are required to help hit land drops with the assistance of the Pulses.
I am fairly happy with my changes but am still mulling a few things I would like to get some feedback on what I've got before the GP. Assassin's Trophy and Pulse of Murasa just add so much to the base UB, I'm so happy I found the Hoogland list as a starting point. I feel like I can tweak this archtype to a solid Tier 2-ish spot, which is all I expect from a control deck.
If I'm able to attend, I'll post a report here. I don't expect to do that well since I've only entered small (less than 50 people) tournaments before.
Also if people want me to write this up into a guide let me know, this is the modern archtype that I will be focusing on this year.
My Decks:
To counter that I've made changes to my list above. I've swapped the Consume the Meek for another Collective Brutality and changed the Maelstrom Pulse to a nice little card I've found, Tribute to Hunger.
Tribute to Hunger
B & 2 Generic
Instant
Target player sacrifices a creature. You gain life equal to that creature's toughness.
This can help stabilize against aggro and gives us an out vs indestructible/hexproof creatures. I will continue testing with this list.
My Decks:
You need to disrupt them on the first couple turns to allow yourself to get to the mid game where you can get a Kalitas or some else that can brick the pheonixes going late. Spell Pierce has been my go to lately in blue control decks to slow down pheonix, but if I was in UBx I would probably be running some number of Nihil Spellbomb in the maindeck as well as Pulse of Murasa and Faerie Macabre out of the sideboard.