Game plan is efficient removal via black discard and wrath effects coupled with LotV and SGM. Kind of like UW control. And we're creature-less here.
Legacy deck Rock deck thought he had won. Until I popped him for 27 life loss in one turn. He was so close but Gonti's is better than it looks.
And I'm not sideboarding RIP. 3 out of the 6 games I played, that card was a house. Have fun with it.
Been testing some, and I've found Gideon to be great. It can take out damage from any permanent and plays into a damnation sometimes. I added some Sigils, and Chastise is great for this deck. I'm sure I'll make many more changes with further testing, but for now, this is where I'm at.
I'm having problems closing games out, should I replace sigil with Sorin, Grim Nemesis or something else?
The idea of the deck seems interesting but some of the card choices are probably rather sub-optimal, namely:
# Gonti's Machinations - this isn't a burn deck so this card is just bad here imho, playing bad cards just for the lifegain isn't a good idea imho.
A good replacement would be Collective Brutality which can gain life but also strip spells from hand and kill small creatures.
Also, I'd go with a tutor like Dark Petition as copies 2-3x of Sanguine Bond for the extra versatility insead of playing 3x copies of the enchantment.
Adding Exquisite Blood for the two card combo doesn't seem like a bad idea either.
In the SB, Illness is an extremely narrow SB card and Ratchet Bomb is a better option that can be used against cheap non-token permanents as well.
The biggest change I made was replacing Sanguine Bond with Near-Death Experience. The reason for this is that Sanguine needs too much lifegain afterward for it to be effective, while Near-Death Experience should win the game on your next upkeep, provided you can add and subtract life easily.
The problems I was having was not hitting land drops enough or having to discard value cards with Lili. To add more consistency to the deck, and less variance, I opted to transform the deck into: trade life for card draw. THAT, with Lili nearly beat UW control. I probably could have won if I was a better pilot, but I'll have the decklist for you on bottom.
T1: Gonti's
T2: Arguel's
T3: Lili
We were both topdecking within a few turns, but since I could draw with Arguel's whenever I wanted I had an enormous advantage.
His board was Azcanta's and I had to get rid of his geist with Lili's sac. (Inefficiency #1)
I had RIP AND Near-Death Experience in hand(6 lands, thanks to Arguel's, hitting land drops every turn). His Azcanta was transformed. 1 card in hand(Freaking Logic Knot). I arguel'd into a second RIP. Cast it, and it resolved. My deck however has zero interaction with lands. (Inefficiency #2)
I was able to cast near-death experience(my 2nd and last one). First one was discarded by Lili(huge mistake). Eventually I had both Lili and Goldmane at 6 counters, and I didn't ult Lili, and ulted Goldmane. What a dummy I am. Oh well you live and learn. I had 7 life, but I found out that Arguel's/Goldmane's ult aren't so good when you're living so close to death. He Collonade'd me twice to the face and that was that. Gold Mane's purpose if life-gain. (Inefficiency #3?)
I agree with every point except Gonti's and RIP.
Gonti's is a conditional Lightning Helix but to the player instead of a target. Good control decks need lifegain in some sort of fashion to buy time. It's one mana, and there are A LOT of self life loss spells in the deck. It's FREE when I need the life. I could see a case for, well if you would have just IoK'd his bolt... you never needed the Gonti's. But its really hard to find cards that answer everything that aren't Anguished Unmaking.
RIP hoses so many things. It is the single best card in the entire game for graveyard hate. People can play around other GY-options, and if I don't need it, I discard it. (You are definitely right about LotV better than Gideon). The control factor is huge.
All the top decks except for Tron abuse the graveyard in some way. And although I had thoughts about Sun Titan'ing that omfg Gonti's, or better yet a planeswalker named Lili/Gideon. RIP severely hinders these decks:
KCI
UW
Dredge
Delve
Those are all big players and there are many many more. Souls for instance, is a bane to this deck.
Further testing is needed, but I think its an interesting concept to trade life for card draw to eliminate variance into a near-death experience.
This is the deck I was referring to earlier. It is 2nd draft of NDE, but the first draft where I went dicks out for harambe on card-draw/life-loss. And as previously mentioned, it stood toe to toe with a Tier 1 control deck. Granted I'll probably get smoked by burn, but that's what testing is for. For constantly tweaking the deck til its good.
This is the 2nd draft of the deck. It's nowhere near complete. I constantly experiment, tweak, completely transform.
(This deck actually started as Lich's Mastery--> Sanguine Bond --> Near-Death Experience) I will start a new thread for NDE control soon, if I can't change the title of thread. Wasn't much interest in sanguine as it was.)
There are over 20 ways of losing life in the deck. I'm probably getting ahead of myself in such a fast format. But hey, I'm excited.
PS: I will likely replace Healing Grace with Brutality.
Pulse of the fields is a house. An absolute house. And pretty much the exact card I was looking for.
I was perusing gatherer, looking for something faster to replace goldmane, and there it was. a recursive life gain engine that can keep up the draw power. It even dodges rest in peace, which I still would like to maimboard. I'm beyond excited to test this deck tomorrow.
I don't really see the need to run a dedicated lifegain card like Pulse over cards that actually effect the game and also happen to gain life like I've mentioned before.
Near-Death Experience seems like a pretty sketchy win-con since you need to be in full control of the game to not lose at 1-life without resorting to things like: Angel's Grace, Gideon's emblem, Worship (with a creature) in which case this becomes a worse Ad Nauseam deck.
I don't really see the need to run a dedicated lifegain card like Pulse over cards that actually effect the game and also happen to gain life like I've mentioned before.
Near-Death Experience seems like a pretty sketchy win-con since you need to be in full control of the game to not lose at 1-life without resorting to things like: Angel's Grace, Gideon's emblem, Worship (with a creature) in which case this becomes a worse Ad Nauseam deck.
Arguel's: In a vacuum Arena is worlds better than ABF, but its still only 2 cmc. I would prefer to play Night's Whisper on turn 2, but this just gives an additional option to draw a card faster than Arena. A little bit more consistency on turn 2 on what we're trying to accomplish: Drawing cards for consistency to get to NDE. Additionally, it's life loss at instant speed. No matter how you want to spin it, getting to 1 life on opponent's end step is much more easily done with Arguel's and fetch/painlands.
Pulse: It does effect the game, just in a combo way. You keep drawing cards with NW/AGF and let the efficiency of the rest of the removal in the deck do the work for you. This deck can kill itself very quickly, but the card advantage is there. Every control deck needs some sort of life-gain to help it stabilize. Since our card advantage comes from life points it becomes prudent to have an instant-speed life-gain effect that can keep that engine going if need be. I just don't like artifacts because they are easy to remove. Abrade/KC are commonly mainboarded. And we'll probably need the life-gain more against red decks anyhow.
NW/ABF/fetches/painlands/PotF on a LotV board is that shell. There are combo aspects to the deck, sure, but its nothing like Ad Nauseum except for pay life draw cards. It's a control deck.
Vent:
-recurrable 2 life for 3 mana, that dies to creature removal, in a creatureless deck... is not better than a PotF because we don't need to damage our opponent at all.
Game 1: Win
T1: No discards in hand, land pass
T2: Arguel's
He T3'd Souls
And turn 4'd exiled souls into my wrath
Followed that up with Lili and RIP
Anguished his Nahiri
NDE ended up getting the win
Game 2: Loss
He discarded my Lili
Nothing too exciting, Souls vs. Pulse
Couldn't find draw cards, couldn't find anguished
Nahiri'd Emrakul took the game down
Game 3: Loss
I discarded his bolt with IoK, followed by TS'ing his Nahiri
Had path and pulse in hand, but again, couldn't find draw cards or Anguished.
I had no answer to a drawn Nahiri. Nahiri'd Emrakul again
Takeaways: G1 was superb. Other games: lack of card draw, ineffective path to exile, not enough planeswalker killers.
Starting to think about Heroes downfall, even though that opens up indestructible.
Game Jeskai Prowess(2-1)
Game 1 Loss
I kept a hand with only koilos and ruin and proceeded to get mana screwed.
I almost caught up thanks to an eventual third land but pulse for 4 life over a couple turns wasn't enough. He eventually hit me with 11 damage on 8 life.
Game 2 Win
IoK'd his sleight of hand, opting to let him just keep his creatures and I'll deal with them.
Turn 2'd an Arguel's
activated Arguel's on turn 3, and opted to let him float by with the prowess. Luckily he hadn't picked up any spells past a discarded sleight
AGAIN, Pulse it nullifying agro here. It's pretty much stabilizing my life total. Picking up a draw here and there with arguel's.
He only had a card or 2 in hand and a couple small prowess creatures on board, after I downfall'd one of them.
I picked up a wrath. And he conceded.
Game 3
Same gameplan, discard the spells and let the removal cards take care of his creatures.
A Wrath followed by a Lili, and he conceded.
Pulse of the Fields probably gained me 24 life over 2 single games here. It single-handedly beats agro decks while improving our draw engine. You're underestimating it.
Tron 0-2
This deck still wrecks me. Never caught damping or stony in either game.
UW Control 0-2
+2 Gideon of the Trials
+2 vraska's contempt
+3 Arena for 3 total
-2 arguel's
-2 path to exile
-3 RIP (to sideboard)
Game 1 won by phyrexian arena and lili. He tapped out on my turn 3. Arena came down over Lili instantaneously. I then TS'd and Lili'd. Gideon ended up dealing the final blow.
Game 2 No arena's this time but plenty of discard and lili turned it into a topdeck battle. He pulled the angel miracle 3 draws in a row! I wrath'd the first batch. The next batch, I ulted Lili and told him lands or angels. He chose lands. And then proceeded to miracle angels again the next turn. My drawn Gideon was powerless.
Game 3 I had a really nice hand. An IoK couple TS's arena and Gideon with a couple lands. BOMB hand. I saved arena for turn 4 following a TS. He countered the TS so I dropped a Gideon. He countered again. Turn 5 same plan. Got his Jace, dropped Arena on board. He couldn't keep up though he put up quite a fight.
2-1 against Tron, thanks to a side board that includes 3 stony, 2 damping, and 4 field of ruin. 3rd game was super close, but a Lilian ultimately sealed the deal. Lilian and gid on board IoK and anguished in hand. He had ulamog which I knew, and his other card ended up being a map to protect against Lilian discard. But I drew that IoK. Got him to discard both, and ended his chances next turn. Game 1 and 2 were one-sided affairs. Like badly one-sided. 2-1 against another tier 1 deck.
1-0 goblins
2-0 be exalted
2-1 tron
1-1 abzan midrange
Wanted to play that 3rd game against abzan, but had to go home. He made me discard pulse of the fields over Gideon, and over a wrath in game 2. That's how stupid broken that card is with arena.
Additionally, nde makes the game effectively: put me from 1 to 5 life on your end step: u lose the game.
Have you tried Timely Reinforcements ?
It is a pretty good lifegain card and making tokens is also very good for protecting the PW's and slowing down aggro decks.
Also, besides the lifegain (and hitting creature-lands) Utter End is much better than Vraska's Contempt.
I'd prefer Shambling Vent to Concealed Courtyard in a control deck and 23x lands seems a bit low (with 6x 4-drops and 2x 5-drops) so adding another one would be good imho, probably over a discard spell as they become worse later in the game anyway.
Dieing to removal isn't really a big issue, you just need to activate it after making sure the coasy is clear
(or when you really need to gain life).
In the SB: Field of Ruin seems pretty odd as it is not really an effective LD option and is only good as a mainboard utility land that doesn't cost you a land.
To effectively hate on lands there is Rain of Tears though if it is mainly for Tron I'd just play more Damping Sphere.
Timely reinforcements seems pretty good. I will have to try that. I had been running a 2 2 split on pulse/revitalize. TR should easily replace revitalize.
I'm just not really seeing a spot for shambling. I mean 4 mana for something removable to drain 2. The deck doesn't even do damage to the opponent except with Gideon. There's 22 cards total that can hurt our life total, so the life gain is super important, and combat damage, not as much. Deck uses a lili/giddy lock with nde in longer games. Pulse has no joke, gained me over 30 life in a single game.
It draws, draws, draws, matches threats with removal. And loses life all the while. It's intrinsically beautiful to have opponent have to overpower a pulse with a minimalist board... While wondering about nde.
Utter end is interesting. I will have to test that. It's rare, but protection does exist.
I'm actually mainboard 2 FoR right now. It's for man-lands mostly. Deck can have a super hard time with man-lands. I like having a variety of answers that kind of blend with each other. Like path or FoR or whatever.
I will test utter end and TR. They seem like powerful inclusions. Trust me when I say this though: pulse of the fields isn't going anywhere with 20ish sources of life loss in the deck. TS/anguished/nw/arena. I literally casted 2 arena's and pulse kept up with it and the damage opponent was trying to push.
Feels like NDE is a very bad way to try to win a game. Can easily go wrong and you just lose. I started reading this because you were playing blood. I like that card. Could you change the thread name so we don't get tricked into reading about a deck we don't have an interest in? Thanks.
Unfortunately I cannot edit thread title. But I will make a new thread.
I apologize to have mislead you on a deck that started as something worse and evolved into something else. @ ******* mods concerning raphael Levy's loam pox morphing into zombie loam and not doing anything about it... Create a thread titled BW life control. To save people from misinformation. Lazy ****s.
End rant.
I tested sanguine and found it lackluster, explosive, but inconsistent.
NDE isn't, I'm sitting on one life... It's I've got arena on board with some caves of koilos and maybe some life gain in hand so when you think you've got lethal on board with the one creature you drew, or I let live. You're just playing into arena
/Nde stacks being my choice, and caves untapping... All before upkeep.
I don't think NDE works with Arena. NDE has an "intervening if" clause and so it will only go on the stack if you have 1 life at the beginning of your upkeep. I'm no judge though so I would double check with your local judge.
I don't think NDE works with Arena. NDE has an "intervening if" clause and so it will only go on the stack if you have 1 life at the beginning of your upkeep. I'm no judge though so I would double check with your local judge.
This, if you are not at 1 on your upkeep NDE wont trigger to win you the game.
That's right, but that's okay. Still tons of ways to damage self where a single copy is enough. It's more of discards, wrath, and PW kind of deck.
Timely Reinforcements has been terrific btw. Might even do a 2/2 split with pulse. But 3/2 as of now has worked well enough, in favor of pulse. Utter end has been good too. Same purpose as anguished. Another split here on 2/2 seems right. And just remove vraska's.
Terrific suggestions, as always Dennis
Wins mostly come from Lili or Giddy just beating face with wraths/removal. White sideboard is nice to deal with degenerate decks. Any alt win cons? As burn spells can be problematic to giddy protecting an nde.
I'll update current list over weekend when I'm not using my phone.
UW Control: It's not a terrible matchup, but its really hard if you don't have the Lili discard package and arena in opening hand on the play. Most of this deck's power is in the 3cmc variety
Blood Moon: Lots of double costed cards in this deck makes this card a problem more often than not.
I had removed NDE in favor of an extra Gideon. As good as Gideon is, having him as your sole win-con is a bad idea as anything can win with Lili controlling the board. I also decked myself against a burn deck. It was infuriating.
I'm just finding myself short on threats to close out a game. The deck is extremely resilient. Arena/Pulse/lots of removal is quite good at mitigating the little damage that gets through. People have to bolt themselves to prevent a stall. It's THAT resilient. But it brings me back to closing out a game...
My first thought was Sorin, Grim Nemesis. I've used him as a 1-of before. He's generally good. A little slow. But strengthens card advantage/lifegain/removal.
I've been using NDE and will likely continue to do so, maybe even after changes. But, pulse doesn't exactly counter bolt. You HAVE to start your turn at 1 life, so you're going to have to be proactive on their end step, and still have an instant answer on your upkeep that isn't in the deck specifically for that scenario.
I've had thoughts on repay in kind, but I'm pretty sure its going to fall short. As I still have to actually do damage.... OR I have to have Gideon and his emblem on the board at 0 or less.
Also have some interest in Myth Realized. I mean the whole deck is non-creature so, it seems like another play I can do on he first couple turns besides TS/IoK/NW
Do you have some thoughts on what could be good to close out a game? Preferably of the non-creature variety... or a highly resilient creature?
I think this is gonna get remade into Repay in Kind control. Giddy emblem, get some Jura's in there too
There aren't many pay effects except for the fetches I think, they're all lose life... Even so, I am unsure, but if you have 1 life, you can pay 1 life right?
Legacy deck Rock deck thought he had won. Until I popped him for 27 life loss in one turn. He was so close but Gonti's is better than it looks.
And I'm not sideboarding RIP. 3 out of the 6 games I played, that card was a house. Have fun with it.
4 Gonti's Machinations
4 Phyrexian Arena
3 Rest in Peace
2 Sanguine Bond
Instant
3 Anguished Unmaking
3 Healing Grace
Sorcery
4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Damnation
2 Wrath of God
4 Liliana of the Veil
2 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
Land
8 Swamp
2 Plains
4 Marsh Flats
4 Caves of Koilos
3 Godless Shrine
2 Shambling Vent
4 Illness in the Ranks
4 Stony Silence
4 Damping Sphere
3 Leyline of Sanctity
I'm having problems closing games out, should I replace sigil with Sorin, Grim Nemesis or something else?
4 Gonti's Machinations
3 Rest in Peace
2 Phyrexian Arena
3 Sanguine Bond
Artifact
2 Tainted Sigil
Instant
3 Anguished Unmaking
2 Chastise
Sorcery
4 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Night's Whisper
4 Damnation
4 Gideon of the Trials
Land
8 Swamp
2 Plains
4 Marsh Flats
4 Caves of Koilos
3 Isolated Chapel
1 Godless Shrine
1 Orzhova, the Church of Deals
4 Illness in the Ranks
4 Stony Silence
4 Damping Sphere
3 Leyline of Sanctity
# Gonti's Machinations - this isn't a burn deck so this card is just bad here imho, playing bad cards just for the lifegain isn't a good idea imho.
A good replacement would be Collective Brutality which can gain life but also strip spells from hand and kill small creatures.
# Tainted Sigil - this card doesn't really do anything and is a win-more card.
Sorin, Grim Nemesis would be much better but also requires some ramp to cast reliably, I'd go with Mind Stone which can replace itself later over Orzhov Signet.
Another good finisher can be Obzedat, Ghost Council or Baneslayer Angel.
# Chastise - this is just a bad removal spell at 4-mana (overcosted Immolating Glare).
If you're looking for removal spells that can also gain life you have better options like:
Blessed Alliance/Tribute to Hunger, Moment of Craving/Essence Extraction/Vraska's Contempt though most of them wouldn't be my first choices for removal either.
# Rest in Peace - I wouldn't play it in the maindeck without a good reason (like Eternal Scourge), if you want maindeck graveyard hate in the deck going with Nihil Spellbomb/Relic of Progenitus which replace themselves is the better idea imho.
I'd rather add Lingering Souls instead or even Timely Reinforcements which would also gain life and often make tokens.
Gideon of the Trials is good but a 2/2 split with LotV is probably better.
Also, I'd go with a tutor like Dark Petition as copies 2-3x of Sanguine Bond for the extra versatility insead of playing 3x copies of the enchantment.
Adding Exquisite Blood for the two card combo doesn't seem like a bad idea either.
In the SB, Illness is an extremely narrow SB card and Ratchet Bomb is a better option that can be used against cheap non-token permanents as well.
Here is an idea:
2x Obzedat, Ghost Council
Planeswalker (4)
2x Gideon of the Trials
2x Liliana of the Veil
1x Sorin, Grim Nemesis
Enchantment (4)
2x Phyrexian Arena
1x Sanguine Bond
1x Exquisite Blood
Artifact (3)
3x Mind Stone
Sorcery (20)
4x Thoughtseize
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Collective Brutality
3x Sign in Blood
4x Damnation
2x Dark Petition
3x Anguished Unmaking
Land (23)
4x Marsh Flats
3x Godless Shrine
3x Shambling Vent
2x Isolated Chapel
4x Field of Ruin
1x Fetid Heath
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3x Swamp
2x Plains
2x Baneslayer Angel
1x Kambal, Consul of Allocation
2x Damping Sphere
2x Disenchant
2x Stony Silence
2x Extirpate
2x Rest in Peace
2x Ratchet Bomb
The problems I was having was not hitting land drops enough or having to discard value cards with Lili. To add more consistency to the deck, and less variance, I opted to transform the deck into: trade life for card draw. THAT, with Lili nearly beat UW control. I probably could have won if I was a better pilot, but I'll have the decklist for you on bottom.
T1: Gonti's
T2: Arguel's
T3: Lili
We were both topdecking within a few turns, but since I could draw with Arguel's whenever I wanted I had an enormous advantage.
His board was Azcanta's and I had to get rid of his geist with Lili's sac. (Inefficiency #1)
I had RIP AND Near-Death Experience in hand(6 lands, thanks to Arguel's, hitting land drops every turn). His Azcanta was transformed. 1 card in hand(Freaking Logic Knot). I arguel'd into a second RIP. Cast it, and it resolved. My deck however has zero interaction with lands. (Inefficiency #2)
I was able to cast near-death experience(my 2nd and last one). First one was discarded by Lili(huge mistake). Eventually I had both Lili and Goldmane at 6 counters, and I didn't ult Lili, and ulted Goldmane. What a dummy I am. Oh well you live and learn. I had 7 life, but I found out that Arguel's/Goldmane's ult aren't so good when you're living so close to death. He Collonade'd me twice to the face and that was that. Gold Mane's purpose if life-gain. (Inefficiency #3?)
I agree with every point except Gonti's and RIP.
Gonti's is a conditional Lightning Helix but to the player instead of a target. Good control decks need lifegain in some sort of fashion to buy time. It's one mana, and there are A LOT of self life loss spells in the deck. It's FREE when I need the life. I could see a case for, well if you would have just IoK'd his bolt... you never needed the Gonti's. But its really hard to find cards that answer everything that aren't Anguished Unmaking.
RIP hoses so many things. It is the single best card in the entire game for graveyard hate. People can play around other GY-options, and if I don't need it, I discard it. (You are definitely right about LotV better than Gideon). The control factor is huge.
All the top decks except for Tron abuse the graveyard in some way. And although I had thoughts about Sun Titan'ing that omfg Gonti's, or better yet a planeswalker named Lili/Gideon. RIP severely hinders these decks:
KCI
UW
Dredge
Delve
Those are all big players and there are many many more. Souls for instance, is a bane to this deck.
Further testing is needed, but I think its an interesting concept to trade life for card draw to eliminate variance into a near-death experience.
This is the deck I was referring to earlier. It is 2nd draft of NDE, but the first draft where I went dicks out for harambe on card-draw/life-loss. And as previously mentioned, it stood toe to toe with a Tier 1 control deck. Granted I'll probably get smoked by burn, but that's what testing is for. For constantly tweaking the deck til its good.
4 Gonti's Machinations
3 Rest in Peace
2 Arguel's Blood Fast
1 Phyrexian Arena
2 Near-Death Experience
Instant
3 Anguished Unmaking
3 Healing Grace
Sorcery
4 Thoughtseize
4 Night's Whisper
2 Damnation
2 Wrath of God
4 Liliana of the Veil
2 Ajani Goldmane
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
Land
4 Swamp
4 Plains
4 Marsh Flats
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Orzhova, the Church of Deals
4 Illness in the Ranks
4 Stony Silence
4 Damping Sphere
3 Leyline of Sanctity
This is the 2nd draft of the deck. It's nowhere near complete. I constantly experiment, tweak, completely transform.
(This deck actually started as Lich's Mastery--> Sanguine Bond --> Near-Death Experience) I will start a new thread for NDE control soon, if I can't change the title of thread. Wasn't much interest in sanguine as it was.)
There are over 20 ways of losing life in the deck. I'm probably getting ahead of myself in such a fast format. But hey, I'm excited.
PS: I will likely replace Healing Grace with Brutality.
4 thoughtseize
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 night's whisper
2 damnation
2 wrath of God
Instant
4 path to exile
3 anguished unmaking
3 pulse of the fields
4 Liliana of the Veil
Enchantment
3 rest in peace
2 arguel's blood fast
2 near-death experience
Land
4 Swamp
4 plains
4 concealed courtyard
4 caves of kilos
4 marsh flats
2 field of ruin
1 godless shrine
Pulse of the fields is a house. An absolute house. And pretty much the exact card I was looking for.
I was perusing gatherer, looking for something faster to replace goldmane, and there it was. a recursive life gain engine that can keep up the draw power. It even dodges rest in peace, which I still would like to maimboard. I'm beyond excited to test this deck tomorrow.
Sure it can draw more cards later but on curve it is the worse card.
I don't really see the need to run a dedicated lifegain card like Pulse over cards that actually effect the game and also happen to gain life like I've mentioned before.
But if you really want some repeatable lifegain effects then these cards can work:
Sun Droplet, Fountain of Renewal/Prism Ring, Authority of the Consuls (Trespasser's Curse) and also Sanguine Sacrament (which shuffles itself back).
Near-Death Experience seems like a pretty sketchy win-con since you need to be in full control of the game to not lose at 1-life without resorting to things like: Angel's Grace, Gideon's emblem, Worship (with a creature) in which case this becomes a worse Ad Nauseam deck.
Also, where are the Shambling Vents in your decks ?
It's just a 2nd draft.
Arguel's: In a vacuum Arena is worlds better than ABF, but its still only 2 cmc. I would prefer to play Night's Whisper on turn 2, but this just gives an additional option to draw a card faster than Arena. A little bit more consistency on turn 2 on what we're trying to accomplish: Drawing cards for consistency to get to NDE. Additionally, it's life loss at instant speed. No matter how you want to spin it, getting to 1 life on opponent's end step is much more easily done with Arguel's and fetch/painlands.
Pulse: It does effect the game, just in a combo way. You keep drawing cards with NW/AGF and let the efficiency of the rest of the removal in the deck do the work for you. This deck can kill itself very quickly, but the card advantage is there. Every control deck needs some sort of life-gain to help it stabilize. Since our card advantage comes from life points it becomes prudent to have an instant-speed life-gain effect that can keep that engine going if need be. I just don't like artifacts because they are easy to remove. Abrade/KC are commonly mainboarded. And we'll probably need the life-gain more against red decks anyhow.
NW/ABF/fetches/painlands/PotF on a LotV board is that shell. There are combo aspects to the deck, sure, but its nothing like Ad Nauseum except for pay life draw cards. It's a control deck.
Vent:
-recurrable 2 life for 3 mana, that dies to creature removal, in a creatureless deck... is not better than a PotF because we don't need to damage our opponent at all.
Don't knock it til you try it.
Game 1: Win
T1: No discards in hand, land pass
T2: Arguel's
He T3'd Souls
And turn 4'd exiled souls into my wrath
Followed that up with Lili and RIP
Anguished his Nahiri
NDE ended up getting the win
Game 2: Loss
He discarded my Lili
Nothing too exciting, Souls vs. Pulse
Couldn't find draw cards, couldn't find anguished
Nahiri'd Emrakul took the game down
Game 3: Loss
I discarded his bolt with IoK, followed by TS'ing his Nahiri
Had path and pulse in hand, but again, couldn't find draw cards or Anguished.
I had no answer to a drawn Nahiri. Nahiri'd Emrakul again
Takeaways: G1 was superb. Other games: lack of card draw, ineffective path to exile, not enough planeswalker killers.
Starting to think about Heroes downfall, even though that opens up indestructible.
Game Jeskai Prowess(2-1)
Game 1 Loss
I kept a hand with only koilos and ruin and proceeded to get mana screwed.
I almost caught up thanks to an eventual third land but pulse for 4 life over a couple turns wasn't enough. He eventually hit me with 11 damage on 8 life.
Game 2 Win
IoK'd his sleight of hand, opting to let him just keep his creatures and I'll deal with them.
Turn 2'd an Arguel's
activated Arguel's on turn 3, and opted to let him float by with the prowess. Luckily he hadn't picked up any spells past a discarded sleight
AGAIN, Pulse it nullifying agro here. It's pretty much stabilizing my life total. Picking up a draw here and there with arguel's.
He only had a card or 2 in hand and a couple small prowess creatures on board, after I downfall'd one of them.
I picked up a wrath. And he conceded.
Game 3
Same gameplan, discard the spells and let the removal cards take care of his creatures.
A Wrath followed by a Lili, and he conceded.
Pulse of the Fields probably gained me 24 life over 2 single games here. It single-handedly beats agro decks while improving our draw engine. You're underestimating it.
Tron 0-2
This deck still wrecks me. Never caught damping or stony in either game.
UW Control 0-2
+2 Gideon of the Trials
+2 vraska's contempt
+3 Arena for 3 total
-2 arguel's
-2 path to exile
-3 RIP (to sideboard)
... Finally
UW control 2-1!!!!!
Making progress, slowly.
Game 1 won by phyrexian arena and lili. He tapped out on my turn 3. Arena came down over Lili instantaneously. I then TS'd and Lili'd. Gideon ended up dealing the final blow.
Game 2 No arena's this time but plenty of discard and lili turned it into a topdeck battle. He pulled the angel miracle 3 draws in a row! I wrath'd the first batch. The next batch, I ulted Lili and told him lands or angels. He chose lands. And then proceeded to miracle angels again the next turn. My drawn Gideon was powerless.
Game 3 I had a really nice hand. An IoK couple TS's arena and Gideon with a couple lands. BOMB hand. I saved arena for turn 4 following a TS. He countered the TS so I dropped a Gideon. He countered again. Turn 5 same plan. Got his Jace, dropped Arena on board. He couldn't keep up though he put up quite a fight.
4 thoughtseize
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 night's whisper
2 damnation
2 wrath of God
Instant
2 path to exile
2 vraska's contempt
3 anguished unmaking
3 pulse of the fields
4 Liliana of the Veil
2 Gideon of the Trial
Enchantment
3 phyrexian arena
2 near-death experience
Land
4 Swamp
4 plains
4 concealed courtyard
4 caves of kilos
4 marsh flats
3 godless shrine
3 rest in peace
2 torpor orb
2 damping sphere
2 leyline of sanctity
2 stony silence
4 field of ruin
2-0 be exalted
2-1 tron
1-1 abzan midrange
Wanted to play that 3rd game against abzan, but had to go home. He made me discard pulse of the fields over Gideon, and over a wrath in game 2. That's how stupid broken that card is with arena.
Additionally, nde makes the game effectively: put me from 1 to 5 life on your end step: u lose the game.
It is a pretty good lifegain card and making tokens is also very good for protecting the PW's and slowing down aggro decks.
Also, besides the lifegain (and hitting creature-lands) Utter End is much better than Vraska's Contempt.
I'd prefer Shambling Vent to Concealed Courtyard in a control deck and 23x lands seems a bit low (with 6x 4-drops and 2x 5-drops) so adding another one would be good imho, probably over a discard spell as they become worse later in the game anyway.
Dieing to removal isn't really a big issue, you just need to activate it after making sure the coasy is clear
(or when you really need to gain life).
In the SB: Field of Ruin seems pretty odd as it is not really an effective LD option and is only good as a mainboard utility land that doesn't cost you a land.
To effectively hate on lands there is Rain of Tears though if it is mainly for Tron I'd just play more Damping Sphere.
I'm just not really seeing a spot for shambling. I mean 4 mana for something removable to drain 2. The deck doesn't even do damage to the opponent except with Gideon. There's 22 cards total that can hurt our life total, so the life gain is super important, and combat damage, not as much. Deck uses a lili/giddy lock with nde in longer games. Pulse has no joke, gained me over 30 life in a single game.
It draws, draws, draws, matches threats with removal. And loses life all the while. It's intrinsically beautiful to have opponent have to overpower a pulse with a minimalist board... While wondering about nde.
Utter end is interesting. I will have to test that. It's rare, but protection does exist.
I'm actually mainboard 2 FoR right now. It's for man-lands mostly. Deck can have a super hard time with man-lands. I like having a variety of answers that kind of blend with each other. Like path or FoR or whatever.
I will test utter end and TR. They seem like powerful inclusions. Trust me when I say this though: pulse of the fields isn't going anywhere with 20ish sources of life loss in the deck. TS/anguished/nw/arena. I literally casted 2 arena's and pulse kept up with it and the damage opponent was trying to push.
I apologize to have mislead you on a deck that started as something worse and evolved into something else. @ ******* mods concerning raphael Levy's loam pox morphing into zombie loam and not doing anything about it... Create a thread titled BW life control. To save people from misinformation. Lazy ****s.
End rant.
I tested sanguine and found it lackluster, explosive, but inconsistent.
NDE isn't, I'm sitting on one life... It's I've got arena on board with some caves of koilos and maybe some life gain in hand so when you think you've got lethal on board with the one creature you drew, or I let live. You're just playing into arena
/Nde stacks being my choice, and caves untapping... All before upkeep.
This, if you are not at 1 on your upkeep NDE wont trigger to win you the game.
Timely Reinforcements has been terrific btw. Might even do a 2/2 split with pulse. But 3/2 as of now has worked well enough, in favor of pulse. Utter end has been good too. Same purpose as anguished. Another split here on 2/2 seems right. And just remove vraska's.
Terrific suggestions, as always Dennis
Wins mostly come from Lili or Giddy just beating face with wraths/removal. White sideboard is nice to deal with degenerate decks. Any alt win cons? As burn spells can be problematic to giddy protecting an nde.
I'll update current list over weekend when I'm not using my phone.
4 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Night's Whisper
2 Damnation
2 Wrath of God
2 Timely Reinforcements
Instant
2 Path to Exile
2 Anguished Unmaking
3 Pulse of the Fields
2 Utter End
4 Liliana of the Veil
2 Gideon of the Trials
Enchantment
4 Phyrexian Arena
1 Near-Death Experience
Land
4 Swamp
4 Plains
4 Concealed Courtyard
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Marsh Flats
2 Field of Ruin
1 Godless Shrine
3 Rest in Peace
2 Torpor Orb
3 Damping Sphere
2 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Stony Silence
2 Field of Ruin
UW Control: It's not a terrible matchup, but its really hard if you don't have the Lili discard package and arena in opening hand on the play. Most of this deck's power is in the 3cmc variety
Blood Moon: Lots of double costed cards in this deck makes this card a problem more often than not.
I had removed NDE in favor of an extra Gideon. As good as Gideon is, having him as your sole win-con is a bad idea as anything can win with Lili controlling the board. I also decked myself against a burn deck. It was infuriating.
I'm just finding myself short on threats to close out a game. The deck is extremely resilient. Arena/Pulse/lots of removal is quite good at mitigating the little damage that gets through. People have to bolt themselves to prevent a stall. It's THAT resilient. But it brings me back to closing out a game...
My first thought was Sorin, Grim Nemesis. I've used him as a 1-of before. He's generally good. A little slow. But strengthens card advantage/lifegain/removal.
I've been using NDE and will likely continue to do so, maybe even after changes. But, pulse doesn't exactly counter bolt. You HAVE to start your turn at 1 life, so you're going to have to be proactive on their end step, and still have an instant answer on your upkeep that isn't in the deck specifically for that scenario.
I've had thoughts on repay in kind, but I'm pretty sure its going to fall short. As I still have to actually do damage.... OR I have to have Gideon and his emblem on the board at 0 or less.
Also have some interest in Myth Realized. I mean the whole deck is non-creature so, it seems like another play I can do on he first couple turns besides TS/IoK/NW
Do you have some thoughts on what could be good to close out a game? Preferably of the non-creature variety... or a highly resilient creature?
Another option is the Sanguine Bond + Exquisite Blood combo but it'll require some tutkrs for consistency like Dark Petition/Mastermind's Acquisition/Liliana Vess or Beseech the Queen.
To be fair, I like Elspath here. And Obzedat.
But Honestly:
I think this is gonna get remade into Repay in Kind control. Giddy emblem, get some Jura's in there too
There aren't many pay effects except for the fetches I think, they're all lose life... Even so, I am unsure, but if you have 1 life, you can pay 1 life right?
Sorry, wouldn't let me edit last post
Doesn't care how much life you have.
Doesn't care that Gideon isn't attacking all game long.
Been using 1x Razaketh's Rites and 1x Repay in Kind along with 4 LotV, 3 Got, 1 GJ
It's been okay. I think there's a lot of potential here. Arena/Whisper/Pulse with a suite of removal into a power move.