Blue Red Prison aka "The Grindfather" has started posting solid results on MTGO. Developed by a group of friends, the main creator is @susurrus_mtg and a notable contributor/pilot is @mis4tune. It is one of the most complex, powerful and rewarding decks to pilot in Modern. I'll start this thread in hopes that they take it over, but for now they are primarily streaming the deck on Twitch with the aforementioned handles.
The first question everyone asks is "why not play lantern?" The deck has a lot of similar card choices as lantern control, but is fundamentally different. While both decks are interested in slowing the game down, lantern is interested in controlling the tops of both decks while UR prison is interested in proactively cutting off the lines your opponent has to escape the lock. On an emotional level, if you don't enjoy playing against a person having an utterly bad time playing magic but still want to play a prison deck - this is the best option. Since your opponent is allowed to see all of the cards in their deck yet they are aware that their time is running out: it makes them alert and involved - often playing some of the most fun and challenging magic they will ever play.
Second question "BUT THIS DECK FORGOT WIN CONDITIONS LOL LOL LOL!"
cool.
not a question.
Hopefully you are reading this because you thought "... but this deck is winning, and I don't understand how - let me do some research to see if there's something I'm not seeing before making an utterly useless comment out loud to real humans." - if this is you, bravo. Welcome to the Nebuchadnezzar.
While being an incredibly powerful engine in setting up complete locks with his -x ability, his ultimate wins quite a few games as well. Though you are usually behind a bridge, if you have a bottled cloister in play you can have many cards in your hand during your turn allowing an unexpected army of 5/5s to attack your unsuspecting opponent.
By the time the game is won, your win con can be almost inconsequential. A totally locked out opponent getting rivulet/crucible takes about one minute to finish off.
Okay, not a card. But a very viable way to win a game. When an opponent sits and gets that slightly stupefied look on their face, offering to tell them your win condition in exchange for their concession usually gets the W in game one.
Can't beat that one card? Make it auto-countered! This card will cause you to think the most, because you have to balance the value of locking your opponent out of certain cards vs creating dead draws for you in the long game. Very powerful, use carefully.
A magical card. Empty your hand for bridge / draw extra cards during your turn. Incredible when the game is about to get slammed shut in your favor and can be whirred in on turn 3-4 to empty your hand under a bridge in an otherwise hopeless situation against a hyper aggressive deck.
This thing I love the most about the deck is the amount of access you have to your entire deck. One of your tutors can create a chain to get to essentially any card in your deck.
The non-secret glue of the deck. Incredible flexibility. Gets you any artifact in your deck at instant speed, some of which can be devastating for an unsuspecting foe.
With the deck you will enjoy a win in about 90% of your game ones. G2 you have to get emotionally prepared for all hell to break loose. There are a lot of very powerful cards that like to rain on an artifact parade. Expect your opponent to have a handful of ancient grudges - then stay calm, and you can win.
the innovator. answers a lot of questions during his matches and casually drops knowledge on some smaller interactions that are cool (like playing an engineered explosives for zero with a blue mana with a Thalia to make it enter with one sunburst counter. Brilliant stuff.)
Last but not least, Jody Keith was the first notable player to stream the deck/take it to an SCG event. There are a lot of great videos in his stream archives.
///////////// SUMMARY //////////////
Overall the deck is complex and rewarding to play. I hope to start this thread for the deck's creator to take over, and to start some dialogue with people who are curious about the deck, and for the small number of people playing it so we can keep each other informed as the deck changes to answer a shifting meta. Enjoy!
The deck is really powerful. I have been playing it for a few months, and we’ve discussed it in the UB tezzeret thopter thread a lot but it’d be cool to get a more specific convo going here. I’be been playing the deck since it first popped up, so I’d be glad to answer any questions anyone had as well.
I picked up the deck since Jody Keith picked it up. Don't forget to mention Jody's twitch account where he's streaming UR Prison here and there: twitch.tv/nolagold
As a dedicated Lantern player since before Zac Elsik's GP appearance, I must admit that UR Prison just feels to be stronger and more solid overall. Especially in todays' metagame, it got harder and harder in the meta for Lantern of Insight to win by denying the top cards and fighting through a bunch of SB cards. This is where UR Prison really shines. The unbanning of Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Bloodbraid Elf didn't help. Also Tron has traditionally been a bad matchup for Lantern whereas it seems to be quite good for UR Prison (running Ghost Quarter, Tectonic Edge, Field of Ruin with Crucible of Worlds).
This deck is very resilient vs certain fields in Modern, like Blood Moon, Tron and Tireless Tracker where decks like Tezz and Lantern seem to have much more trouble with them.
So far, I only had solid runs, 5-0's and sometimes 4-1/3-2 in locals.
versions: I prefer the fetchland list, it feels much safer and smoother, especially in such an aggressive meta with Humans/Hollow One at the top!
What I learned from playing both versions however, is that I definitely want a 3rd and possible 4th LD land. So I'll be going with 1 Ghost Quarter 1 Tectonic Edge 1 Field of Ruin probably, maybe 2 Ghost Quarter.
Padeem and Search have been meh for me, especially Padeem being clunky as another high-costed card. Defense Grid was too narrow for me in my tournaments, even though I faced UW/Jeskai/Grixis, but even then. Spellskite is just better/enough for that Cryptic Command purpose.
These are my first impressions from playing and it will be my main Modern deck for the foreseeable future, so I will try to contribute useful stuff. Bring the salt!
I lost G3 topdeck nailbiters to valakut and tron for three weeks in a row in the finals of win a box, do you guys have experience or thoughts on these matchups? I’m wanting something like mindlock orb or posessed portal back in the 75
Would love to hear what if anything has been working for you guys.
Edit: I see he sided chalices again, that seems right. They are great to keep tron from getting back online if you can shut off stirrigs/stars w chalice on 1.
I really like the deck but I feel there can be some improvements. And by improvements, I mean ways of not having the wincons being blown out by graveyard hate.
Also I feel the deck can be sped up in the means of not burning yourself out during long tournaments or grinding leagues.
I have no idea on the answers to these, but I know there is an answer.
@Aretherk:
I don't think so.
you play 4 Tolaria for Tormods and Tormods is infenitely better than bojuka because: a) it can be played the same turn you fetch with tolaria b) is an artifact count for Opal c) can be fetched by Inventors and d) can be recurred by ARuins.
I believe Glen Elendra seems okish but I recognice I am in the learn curve with this deck... Tezz/GRindfather/Whir Deck I''d say...
@EDIT: boomforest:
Valakut is solved by Witchbane first game uniquely.
2nd games Drusge are a *****. so chalice on 2 is a priority but sometimes slow. Elendra is a nice puzzle vs this deck. but even I side in Elendra I also overload on Jars and Spellskites...
Tron is super easy with no Damping side even if you play the Ghost quarter version - I am still on this.
@Aretherk:
I don't think so.
you play 4 Tolaria for Tormods and Tormods is infenitely better than bojuka because: a) it can be played the same turn you fetch with tolaria b) is an artifact count for Opal c) can be fetched by Inventors and d) can be recurred by ARuins.
I'm not saying drop Tormod's Crypt for Bojuka Bog. I agree that it's probably not needed, but there may come a line where you have to exile the opponents graveyard through counter magic and/or you don't have enough lands to transmute Tolaria West. Having an additional line with Expedition Map will improve the list with just the 1 card.
In my experience spells like Metallic Rebuke tend to rot in hand when you draw them which is bad for bridge. Currently I'm testing out Declaration of Naught in the sb as my counter package to fight Cryptic Command alongside Spellskite which surprisingly is very annoying for control decks and working well. For as narrow as the card is it does everything this deck wants: doesn't rot in your hand, stops a problem card and gets out early.
I like shaving the EE and Jar from the main. I really want a few more SB slots and I never minded having one grid in the main.
As in real life I’m expecing a lot of expert input in here like “have you tried adding jace the mindsculptor” or “the deck needs wincons” or things like bojuka bog. This deck looks so strange that people can’t accept that it might be good as it is. I’ve never had another deck like it. It’ll be good to get feedback from some experienced pilots.
I have to say, Declaration of Naught is a great idea. There are some M/Us that just seem unwinnable because of a card like shatterstorm or cryptic command. I think posessed portal is really good, but having a cheap on board answer to several cards is awesome. I can see getting a little hamstrung having to leave up a U but whatever. Cool tech!
I have to say it is a great idea!
I feel also this deck needs cards like Glen Elendra / Null Breach / Meddling mage / nevermore / etc.
My next testing card. thanks!
But not sure if Glen could be better as they fit a similar roles...
my first insight could be:
Glen is better than Declaration vs jund
Declaration seems better at entering early to protect other silver bullets coming later
Declaration is decay meal
Sure Glen is path/Bolt/Push meal that this will occur not much often
beeing a 2 mana fights vs Chalice at 2
Declaration is just less polivalent
...
maybe just will play a mix of MM/Spellskite...
well I love this deck... I evolved from those *****ty UB Tezz to the most exciting deck I've played ever in Modern... but my testing is slow because of time so all i can say is that I get more and more stability at playing it and sure! it is done at my taste...
I love that Possesed Portal...
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I am a Dedicated Storm Player - Yes only in Legacy...
I would only bring in Declaration of Naught against cryptic command and Shatterstorm where there are no artifacts that can save us.
Also in resp to an earlier post: metallic rebuke is in against decks where getting under bridge is irrelevant. It’s really sick, def on the cusp of being back in the SB
That's a very correct eval on Declaration. It's meant to address the cards that are an absolute heel to the deck like cryptic, shatterstorm and fracturing gust.
I've been really meh on Rebuke. Since I've been seeing control lists playing Secure the Wastes early for damage value it's just a feel bad to topdeck when i have a bridge out but I could be looking at it wrong.
I have been waiting for someone to explain this deck to me ever since i saw its first 5-0 on mtgo goldfish. It seemed like a worse lantern but the dude kept winning.
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Tooth & Nail........Grishoalbrand....Living Dominance....Tezzerator.........Vannifar Pod
My Decks that have been BANNED
DRS Jund | Kiki-Pod | Bloom Titan | Splinter Twin | KCI
The only thing that turns me off about playing this deck is it doesn't look very exciting.
I guess the tutoring aspect of the deck can be fun, but it basically looks like engineering bridge and chalice play for locks then look for a win con, whether that's milling, or pinging with various cards (spellbomb/aether grid).
I'd love to see the deck played if anyone knows of any youtube videos.
How does it combat Storm? Just the one damping sphere?
Chalice on 1 and 2 is ggs game 1 vs storm. Witchbane Orb also protects from Grapeshot and Hurkylls. Grafdiggers Cage/Tormods forces them to play honest magic. The deck isnt soley reliant on Damping Sphere as you can see but it is very helpful.
@decadent_command It really depends on your definition of excitement. Putting together a series of components to neutralize an opponent’s strategy is thrilling to me. Sometimes it’s a matter of getting bridge and protecting it while assembling a win, but sometimes the best line is drastically different. At every step of every game your opponent is fighting tooth and nail against you, so there are seldom boring games.
If you are excited turning creatures sideways you are in luck because Magic has been designed to push that concept for many many years.
when i originally saw the deck it was the darksteel citadel version. the things i didnt understand was how it ever beat humans, how it was able to get whir consistently with the lack blue mana sources, and how it won if they break through a bridge. Im aware it is not like lantern in how it plays but its game plan is similar by trying to deny the opponent ability to play. The fetch version at least clears some of that up with mana consistency. The other card i never understood that was in the SB was Possessed Portal
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Tooth & Nail........Grishoalbrand....Living Dominance....Tezzerator.........Vannifar Pod
My Decks that have been BANNED
DRS Jund | Kiki-Pod | Bloom Titan | Splinter Twin | KCI
It’s a lot different than lantern because lantern is attempting to manipulate the top of your opponent’s deck while the prison deck is removing your opponent’s outs. They are fundamentally different decks, but it is a common misperception that people who don’t pilot the deck are very common to make.
You had access to three U mana very consistently in the old version because you were ghostquartering your own citadels for islands - that was a non-obvious interaction. Also citadels turn on mox opals very efficiently. It did have occasional hiccups which has been alleviated by sphere letting us lower our land destruction in the main.
The posessed portal is to end games with decks that require the top of the deck to beat you. Valakut/tron/control
Whirring for 8 can comfortably be done turn 5 or 6. Then if you have a crucible your board is getting drained half as fast as your oppo and at the right moment you sac portal. It’s backbreaking. Especially in response to a jace 0 hahahahahaha
The Deck
1 Academy Ruins
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Tectonic Edge
4 Tolaria West
1 Steam Vents
5 Island
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
2 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Polluted Delta
1 Ipnu Rivulet
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
Instants:
4 Whir of Invention
Artifacts:
4 Mox Opal
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Engineered Explosives
4 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Witchbane Orb
1 Bottled Cloister
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Pyrite Spellbomb
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Chalice of the Void
3 Expedition Map
3 Welding Jar
The first question everyone asks is "why not play lantern?" The deck has a lot of similar card choices as lantern control, but is fundamentally different. While both decks are interested in slowing the game down, lantern is interested in controlling the tops of both decks while UR prison is interested in proactively cutting off the lines your opponent has to escape the lock. On an emotional level, if you don't enjoy playing against a person having an utterly bad time playing magic but still want to play a prison deck - this is the best option. Since your opponent is allowed to see all of the cards in their deck yet they are aware that their time is running out: it makes them alert and involved - often playing some of the most fun and challenging magic they will ever play.
Second question "BUT THIS DECK FORGOT WIN CONDITIONS LOL LOL LOL!"
cool.
not a question.
Hopefully you are reading this because you thought "... but this deck is winning, and I don't understand how - let me do some research to see if there's something I'm not seeing before making an utterly useless comment out loud to real humans." - if this is you, bravo. Welcome to the Nebuchadnezzar.
/////////// THE WIN CONS ////////////
Tezzeret the Seeker
While being an incredibly powerful engine in setting up complete locks with his -x ability, his ultimate wins quite a few games as well. Though you are usually behind a bridge, if you have a bottled cloister in play you can have many cards in your hand during your turn allowing an unexpected army of 5/5s to attack your unsuspecting opponent.
Ipnu Rivulet
By the time the game is won, your win con can be almost inconsequential. A totally locked out opponent getting rivulet/crucible takes about one minute to finish off.
Ghirapur Aether Grid
Post sideboard vs. creaures and stony silence. Unexpected, very powerful on a board with 8 artifacts sitting on it.
Pyrite Spellbomb
A classic. Recur with academy ruins for a one sided pyrostatic pillar.
Concession
Okay, not a card. But a very viable way to win a game. When an opponent sits and gets that slightly stupefied look on their face, offering to tell them your win condition in exchange for their concession usually gets the W in game one.
//////////// THE LOCK PIECES //////////////
Ensnaring Bridge
Drop it and empty your hand. Simple.
Chalice of the Void
Can't beat that one card? Make it auto-countered! This card will cause you to think the most, because you have to balance the value of locking your opponent out of certain cards vs creating dead draws for you in the long game. Very powerful, use carefully.
Bottled Cloister
A magical card. Empty your hand for bridge / draw extra cards during your turn. Incredible when the game is about to get slammed shut in your favor and can be whirred in on turn 3-4 to empty your hand under a bridge in an otherwise hopeless situation against a hyper aggressive deck.
Crucible of Worlds
Create a ton of value with recursion of Inventors' Fair, keep your opponent seriously throttled by recurring tectonic edge and ghost quarter
//////////////// THE TUTORS //////////////////
This thing I love the most about the deck is the amount of access you have to your entire deck. One of your tutors can create a chain to get to essentially any card in your deck.
Expedition Map
the OG (original gangster) Fixes your colors, or gets you any of your lands that start generating card advantage
Tolaria West
The secret glue of the deck. Can get you any land or zero cmc spell - of which we are primarily comprised.
Whir of Invention
The non-secret glue of the deck. Incredible flexibility. Gets you any artifact in your deck at instant speed, some of which can be devastating for an unsuspecting foe.
///////////// SIDEBOARD ///////////////
1 Search for Azcanta
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
2 Ghirapur Aether Grid
1 Welding Jar
1 Torpor Orb
1 Dampening Sphere
4 Spellskite
1 Defense Grid
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
With the deck you will enjoy a win in about 90% of your game ones. G2 you have to get emotionally prepared for all hell to break loose. There are a lot of very powerful cards that like to rain on an artifact parade. Expect your opponent to have a handful of ancient grudges - then stay calm, and you can win.
lets go over the pieces.
spellskite
welding jar
ghirapur aether grid
Padeem, Consul of Innovation
For when hell breaks loose. Basically ancient grudge/stony silence are the go tos, so these are the contingency.
Search for Azcanta
A great card that's nearly good enough for maindeck. Good vs opposing control/prison/combo players
Tezzeret the Seeker
For control and other slower matchups, good to up the win con count vs stony silence/rest in peace decks.
Torpor Orb
Humans/Titanshift/Snapcasters/Reclamation Sages
Defense Grid
Good against blue decks
Sorcerous Spyglass
Sometimes you need a lot of needles. Planeswalkers/Pridemage/Devoted Druid/Walking Ballista/Fetch Lands/Oblivion Stone
//////////// WATCH SOME VIDS YA DUNGUS ///////////
www.twitch.tv/susurrus_mtg
the innovator. answers a lot of questions during his matches and casually drops knowledge on some smaller interactions that are cool (like playing an engineered explosives for zero with a blue mana with a Thalia to make it enter with one sunburst counter. Brilliant stuff.)
www.twitch.tv/mis4tune
https://www.youtube.com/user/Jeffhoogland
Plays the deck a lot, is forced to answer the same stupid questions about the deck over and over again. Is fun grumpy.
https://www.twitch.tv/nolagold
Last but not least, Jody Keith was the first notable player to stream the deck/take it to an SCG event. There are a lot of great videos in his stream archives.
///////////// SUMMARY //////////////
Overall the deck is complex and rewarding to play. I hope to start this thread for the deck's creator to take over, and to start some dialogue with people who are curious about the deck, and for the small number of people playing it so we can keep each other informed as the deck changes to answer a shifting meta. Enjoy!
is it possible to have a reference of Side strategy with this deck as ex. in the Primer?
sure I and others will apreciate this.
Thanks in advance.
I posted in the UB Tezz thread and I've just testing Glen elendra in this archetype and seems fantastic.
Mind sharing your list?
Spirits
Good for him!
I lost G3 topdeck nailbiters to valakut and tron for three weeks in a row in the finals of win a box, do you guys have experience or thoughts on these matchups? I’m wanting something like mindlock orb or posessed portal back in the 75
Would love to hear what if anything has been working for you guys.
Edit: I see he sided chalices again, that seems right. They are great to keep tron from getting back online if you can shut off stirrigs/stars w chalice on 1.
Also I feel the deck can be sped up in the means of not burning yourself out during long tournaments or grinding leagues.
I have no idea on the answers to these, but I know there is an answer.
The deck needs 1 bojuka bog in the main for sure.
I don't think so.
you play 4 Tolaria for Tormods and Tormods is infenitely better than bojuka because: a) it can be played the same turn you fetch with tolaria b) is an artifact count for Opal c) can be fetched by Inventors and d) can be recurred by ARuins.
I believe Glen Elendra seems okish but I recognice I am in the learn curve with this deck... Tezz/GRindfather/Whir Deck I''d say...
@EDIT: boomforest:
Valakut is solved by Witchbane first game uniquely.
2nd games Drusge are a *****. so chalice on 2 is a priority but sometimes slow. Elendra is a nice puzzle vs this deck. but even I side in Elendra I also overload on Jars and Spellskites...
Tron is super easy with no Damping side even if you play the Ghost quarter version - I am still on this.
I'm not saying drop Tormod's Crypt for Bojuka Bog. I agree that it's probably not needed, but there may come a line where you have to exile the opponents graveyard through counter magic and/or you don't have enough lands to transmute Tolaria West. Having an additional line with Expedition Map will improve the list with just the 1 card.
I don’t think it’s a huge deal but probably a reason to run the spire of industy/spirebluff canal that he’s also swapped in that spot in the past.
As in real life I’m expecing a lot of expert input in here like “have you tried adding jace the mindsculptor” or “the deck needs wincons” or things like bojuka bog. This deck looks so strange that people can’t accept that it might be good as it is. I’ve never had another deck like it. It’ll be good to get feedback from some experienced pilots.
I have to say, Declaration of Naught is a great idea. There are some M/Us that just seem unwinnable because of a card like shatterstorm or cryptic command. I think posessed portal is really good, but having a cheap on board answer to several cards is awesome. I can see getting a little hamstrung having to leave up a U but whatever. Cool tech!
I feel also this deck needs cards like Glen Elendra / Null Breach / Meddling mage / nevermore / etc.
My next testing card. thanks!
But not sure if Glen could be better as they fit a similar roles...
my first insight could be:
Glen is better than Declaration vs jund
Declaration seems better at entering early to protect other silver bullets coming later
Declaration is decay meal
Sure Glen is path/Bolt/Push meal that this will occur not much often
beeing a 2 mana fights vs Chalice at 2
Declaration is just less polivalent
...
maybe just will play a mix of MM/Spellskite...
well I love this deck... I evolved from those *****ty UB Tezz to the most exciting deck I've played ever in Modern... but my testing is slow because of time so all i can say is that I get more and more stability at playing it and sure! it is done at my taste...
I love that Possesed Portal...
Also in resp to an earlier post: metallic rebuke is in against decks where getting under bridge is irrelevant. It’s really sick, def on the cusp of being back in the SB
I've been really meh on Rebuke. Since I've been seeing control lists playing Secure the Wastes early for damage value it's just a feel bad to topdeck when i have a bridge out but I could be looking at it wrong.
Tooth & Nail........Grishoalbrand....Living Dominance....Tezzerator.........Vannifar Pod
My Decks that have been BANNED
DRS Jund | Kiki-Pod | Bloom Titan | Splinter Twin | KCI
Your initial thoughts are incorrect, the deck has very little in common with lantern.
I guess the tutoring aspect of the deck can be fun, but it basically looks like engineering bridge and chalice play for locks then look for a win con, whether that's milling, or pinging with various cards (spellbomb/aether grid).
I'd love to see the deck played if anyone knows of any youtube videos.
How does it combat Storm? Just the one damping sphere?
If you are excited turning creatures sideways you are in luck because Magic has been designed to push that concept for many many years.
Tooth & Nail........Grishoalbrand....Living Dominance....Tezzerator.........Vannifar Pod
My Decks that have been BANNED
DRS Jund | Kiki-Pod | Bloom Titan | Splinter Twin | KCI
You had access to three U mana very consistently in the old version because you were ghostquartering your own citadels for islands - that was a non-obvious interaction. Also citadels turn on mox opals very efficiently. It did have occasional hiccups which has been alleviated by sphere letting us lower our land destruction in the main.
The posessed portal is to end games with decks that require the top of the deck to beat you. Valakut/tron/control
Whirring for 8 can comfortably be done turn 5 or 6. Then if you have a crucible your board is getting drained half as fast as your oppo and at the right moment you sac portal. It’s backbreaking. Especially in response to a jace 0 hahahahahaha