So here is my take on this from the article and exploring the old decks. I may up the fecundity and bushwacker amounts to full and I probably should. I was looking around at the lists and wondered if Krenko had been talked about since yes you can control the amount of spells but you can also get a turn 3 krenko that is just about as reliable as empty. I could very well be wrong.
I've been trying a bunch of lists and this is the best one I came up with so far. Postmortem Lunge does very similar things as Traverse the Ulvenwald in my experience but doesn't have the same deck building restraint. This opens some slots for the Kuldotha Rebirth package. When the card is good, it is amazing and the zero drop creatures let you cast a Blood Moon on turn 1 when paired with Infernal Plunge. I think an alternate win condition is pretty necessary to win through ensnaring bridge/chalice of the void. Right now Grapeshot is my choice since I can mow down a bunch of creatures if I draw it early. Siege-Gang Commander and Zulaport Cutthroat are also considerations that I haven't tried. I've tried the aggro switch in the sideboard and it hasn't been very good for me, so I'm trying this sideboard configuration out.
Overall the combo seems too easy to disrupt in the current configuration, though the aggro plan B is pretty solid. I'm not sure where to go with the deck, but it still feels like it's missing something.
other than empty its not really adding much so that it reduces more I'd imagine. ALOT of things and spells we play are 1cc anyway whereas warchief can add some better value to other cards more.
In my experience, storm is almost always more consistent on a turn 3 kill. It feels like this deck sacrifices turn 3 consistency for the ability to create threatening board states. I've played quite a few games at this point where I end up just making 6 or 8 goblins on turn 3 and hoping it gets there.
As for Electromancer, EonAon hit the nail on the head. It only reduces the Mana cost of empty. In the traverse list, it can also reduce commune with the gods and manamorphose but there no reason I see for playing a third color for reduction of those cards.
Played a super rough draft of the deck last night at a Modern event. It was cards that I could scramble together before the event, and going off of Izzet Mage's psuedo-storm deck was easy enough to convert it over. I expected to go 0-4 but ended up at 2-2 which was a pleasant surprise. Knowing that I was playing a sub-optimal build I'll give my thoughts on all of the cards, improvements, and the deck in general.
Round 1 vs Jeskai Queller with Resto and Kiki-Jiki
Game 1 on the draw he out tempo'd me with Spell Queller taking Commune with the Gods, and then blinking it with a Restoration Angel to take Fecundity. I was able to ritual a few times into like 8 Goblins but then died to the flier beats and Bolt+Helix.
Game 2 was more of the same, I got down an early Fecundity but couldn't get anything else to stick and was dead to flyers and burn. 0-2
Round 2 vs UR Kiki-Jiki (Twin wannabe)
Game 1 on the draw again, got to my Turn 3 and played an uncontested Fecundity then combo'd off. All of my Empty the Warrens were in the last ~20 cards of the deck which made for tome on-the-edge comboing, but I got there.
Game 2 on the draw we're going into my third turn. My hand is Fecundity, Manamorphose, Goblin Bushwhacker, and 4 Lands. I draw a second Fecundity and then he flashes in a Vendilion Clique (tapping Steam Vents and 2 Islands). It would have been right to take nothing, but after a bunch of thought he takes the Goblin Bushwhacker (since that's what killed him last game I guess?) and I draw Choke. Slammed it on the table and he conceded. 2-0
Round 4 vs D&T
Game 1 you can't beat Thalia.
Game 2 he also had a win but wanted to see me combo off so he didn't blow me out of the water with a Thalia + Leonin Arbiter + 3 Strip Mines.
Game 3 I got a quick Empty the Warrens for 8 Goblins, then played a Goblin Bushwhacker to try and beat him quick. He kinda stabilized, but I found a Fecundity and kept on attacking and drawing cards. Then this happened. 2-1
Really I should have gone 1-3, but we'll say it's a 2-2 to give the deck a shred of hope.....
Thoughts on the deck
It does absolutely nothing without Fecundity. The backup plan of casting an Empty the Warrens for 6-10 Goblins wasn't super consistent as you needed too many cards to come together for that to happen, or it would happen on turn 3-4 and not be that powerful. That said, a refined version of the deck could allow that to work better. I like the traverse package list Jim Davis ended up on:
Goblin Bushwhacker - You only need one to win. I found myself sideboarding out 2-3 every single game because really you only need one as the final card played. That said, I could see cutting Grapeshot and playing a second one since it can be discarded or countered or something. Having a backup can be nice, and in the worse case it is a free extra card draw during the combo while Grapeshot isn't.
Wild Cantor - I reeeeeeeally like this, and the more I played the more I wished it was in my deck. It's like a Pentad Prism that works with Traverse and Fecundity. It allows for a T2 Blood Moon or Fecundity without having to rely on rituals and Manamorphose. This is a must include in some number going forward in my opinion.
Infernal Plunge - This is a neat way to keep some rituals in the deck. I like that he is only playing 2, as the cost of having a creature in play (preferably not Skirk Prospector) is high. I'll have to try it out but getting the random Dark Ritual ever once in a while could be nice. I can see it being one of the first cuts if it is too high variance.
Commune with the Gods - Commune was an all-star in finding either combo piece that I currently didn't have. With the Traverse package it does double-duty by dumping stuff into the yard. I had problems with it at times because of the low creature count in my deck, but an additional 8 hits in the form of Wild Cantor and Street Wraith would help. It can also becomes better post-board as it finds Blood Moon, Choke, or any other spicy Enchantments you can think of. I liked 4, but I can see only playing 3 as I wanted it before trying to combo, but not once I started to go off.
Grapeshot - As I already wrote above, cutting this to the sideboard or entirely for a Goblin Bushwhacker is going to be fine. Game 1 there isn't going to be any hate for just attacking for the win, and it can be brought in to kill stuff or if you can't attack for whatever reason (Ebridge, Thalia, Meddling Mage, etc...).
Traverse the Ulvenwald - I really like Traverse making the deck more consistent, but it seems like it just requires too much extra work. I want to look into cutting Mishra's Bauble in favour of other cards that will either draw cards right away, or help the secondary gameplan of smashing with Goblins. Getting Lands, Sorceries, and Creatures into the graveyard is not going to be a problem at all, but then the elusive fourth card type has to be figured out. Right now I'm thinking it could be instants with Manamorphose + Bolts. I have to play with it to see since the allure of a 48 card deck is real.
Hordeling Outburst - This card was pretty sweet as a mana neutral draw 3, but I'm not entirely convinced that it will be better than the new Goblin Instigator coming out in M19. It's one less goblin, but the Creature tag allows it to interact with Traverse and Commune making them more consistent. Also playing only 17 lands means you might not be hitting 3 naturally very often.
I want to find some happy medium with the deck where it can be a decent aggro deck as well as randomly combo off, but at the moment I haven't found anything that can do that. Foundry Street Denizen seems to be the best bet for tuning to to be more aggro, but I'm not convinced that it's the one card to really make a difference. I'm going to try out something closer to this list and see where it goes.
Moved Grapeshot to the side, added a Bushwacker, added some Bolts and cut 1 Plunge and 2 Baubles. Bolts help with Thalia and Eidolon, among other problem creatures. There are 9 hits for a 4th card type, for Traverse, so I cut 1 as it is Prospector 5-7 and added in the 4th Commune as finding Fecundity is the harder condition of the deck. Will report back how it works.
I watched the Jim Davis and Saffron Olive videos a while ago and decided to give this deck a try, if you own the major part of decks like Storm and Traverse Shadow, the rest ist still really cheap right now.
This is the Jund version of the Deck I threw together for testing purposes. I play alot on xmage and the black splash pays off imo. Having a fetchable alternate wincon with Zulaport Cutthroat is really nice plus it can win you games through lock pieces like Ensnaring Bridge and Worship etc.
Not totally sure what the correct numbers are here. I agree with the previous posts for the most part, but I think an effort should be made to develop this as a dedicated combo deck, since an aggro-style deck needs too many 'bad aggro cards' in order to function. This being said I find it very consistent so far, being able to go off on turn 3-4 regularly.
Been testing cards like claim//fame and noxious revival in order to see if they work and it has been underwhelming so far.
I will continue testing cards (especially black ones) in this build and see what the results are.
Keep up the good work!
Here is Jim Davis’ most current list. I’ll have it all thrown together by Friday. Had to get a few of the pieces I wasn’t counting on when I originally prepared for building/brewing this deck.
A black splash could be worth it, but I don’t know. Claim // Fame was incredible in my past testing, and I agree that Cutthroat is an awesome workaround for pesky Bridges, Worship, Leyline of Sanctity, etc.
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Torpf, you made two mistakes with my original decklist:
1) cutting rituals. I mean, of course, if you cut rituals you'll have a harder time Emptying on turn 2.
2) 4 Mountains. I don't think anyone has picked up on this yet, but this deck doesn't have to be RG or RG with a blue/black splash. It can be UR with a green splash. I much prefer this if you're going full combo because you get to play Serum Visions. 4 Mountains is definitely wrong, even in pure RG versions.
I'm still trying to improve my build. I think I can cut the aggro plan (FSDs, 2-mana token makers, some Bushwhackers) to push the Empty plan (Sleight of Hand, Manamorphose, maybe a 1-of Past in Flames). Having Manamorphose would also make the Fecundities easier to cast.
Now, on Jim Davis's decklist. I've seen him play it in 2 leagues now with a total record of 7-3 (not counting the first disastrous 1-4 with an admittedly bad list). So far he's mostly beaten random prison (mono-red, UR, Tezzeret) and ramp decks (GB Tron, Ponza). Generally the prison decks just play a lock piece that stops some of his cards but not his ability to draw his deck, so he draws his deck anyway and removes the offending piece, or wins with Bushwhacker/Grapeshot depending on whichever is blocked. The ramp decks don't have much interaction so he just does his thing and they die.
Hordeling Outburst is not necessary in his list since he has Traverse the Ulvenwald, which, when used to find Mogg War Marshal, is like Outburst, except it costs green. I definitely wouldn't cut the Baubles down to 2 since it's a free card type for delirium. He has Infernal Plunge and says it's to net mana during the combo, but if you have Prospector + Fecundity already, it fares no better than Desperate Ritual: saccing a goblin to Prospector nets you +1 card and +1 mana, saccing a goblin to Plunge nets you +1 card and +2 mana, saccing a goblin to Prospector then casting a Desperate Ritual nets you +1 card and +2 mana.
The mana actually works, despite 2 Islands in a deck that's supposed to be red or green. Island + Stomping Ground covers all your turn 2 plays: cantrip + Prospector, MWM, or ritual > ritual > Empty. Any 3rd land lets you cast Fecundity, and any 3rd land other than basic Island lets you cast Hordeling Outburst.
For SBing, first cuts are a Bushwhacker and Manamorphoses. Then if you still need more space, Fecundity or Sleight of Hand goes.
So couple things here. Been playtesting the deck for a bit and the bottle necks on the combo are 4 prospectors and 4 fecundity. The gate to the afterlife package helps keep the deck afloat through aggro and removal with an inevitable late game. Gate acts like fecundity 5-6 and is easier on the mana. Often I'm cycling away smaller dudes or lands anyway.
The sideboard is a land hate package, a stronger aggro package, some artifact removal and some bolts to close out the game.
I like the mogg fanatics because you can use them to pump a foundry street denizen and then fire off on a blocker or key creature like bob. The firebrands are just additional copies of fanatic.
Goblin instigator gets the nod over dragon fodder/krenkos command for the gift package.
Wraith has a nod over mamamorphose because of the gift package.
I opted for 3 empty because without the spell package I don't want to see as many.
So the deck is less explosive t2, but has a much stronger late game where I start jamming 4/4 or bigger hasty zombies game 1.
Plan A is combo through prospector to hit a huge empty and go off with bushwhacker. Plan B is aggro beats around foundry street denizen with the firebrand/fanatic and grenade as reach. Plan c is a mid/late game stream of 4/4 zombie goblins with more etbs to try and jump start the combo route again.
I didn't see any discussion on gate to the afterlife and I absolutely love hitting it in testing so far. It's also super easy to cast compared to fecundity and the filter/life gain is great. Stacked with fecundity makes for an explosive t4.
I've considered dark-dweller oracle as sac outlets 5-6 for more consistency but didn't like it in testing.
Planning on playing at the LGS soon. I'll let y'all know how it goes.
So couple things here. Been playtesting the deck for a bit and the bottle necks on the combo are 4 prospectors and 4 fecundity. The gate to the afterlife package helps keep the deck afloat through aggro and removal with an inevitable late game. Gate acts like fecundity 5-6 and is easier on the mana. Often I'm cycling away smaller dudes or lands anyway.
The sideboard is a land hate package, a stronger aggro package, some artifact removal and some bolts to close out the game.
I like the mogg fanatics because you can use them to pump a foundry street denizen and then fire off on a blocker or key creature like bob. The firebrands are just additional copies of fanatic.
Goblin instigator gets the nod over dragon fodder/krenkos command for the gift package.
Wraith has a nod over mamamorphose because of the gift package.
I opted for 3 empty because without the spell package I don't want to see as many.
So the deck is less explosive t2, but has a much stronger late game where I start jamming 4/4 or bigger hasty zombies game 1.
Plan A is combo through prospector to hit a huge empty and go off with bushwhacker. Plan B is aggro beats around foundry street denizen with the firebrand/fanatic and grenade as reach. Plan c is a mid/late game stream of 4/4 zombie goblins with more etbs to try and jump start the combo route again.
I didn't see any discussion on gate to the afterlife and I absolutely love hitting it in testing so far. It's also super easy to cast compared to fecundity and the filter/life gain is great. Stacked with fecundity makes for an explosive t4.
I've considered dark-dweller oracle as sac outlets 5-6 for more consistency but didn't like it in testing.
Planning on playing at the LGS soon. I'll let y'all know how it goes.
Quick tournament report. I ended up with a different sideboard but mainboard was close except I went 3 gates 3 fecundity instead of the 2/4 split.
Matches
Match one was frixis control 0-2. Lost the die roll. Game one he figured aggro goblins after I led on a denizen and had removal for days. His particular list has no discard but lots of snaps, bolt, push, kcommand and cryptics. I had him at one game one and needed a fanatic or firebrand to seal the deal. Game 2 I finally saw combo pieces but he had two k commands and a snap in hand by the time I had gift online. I did get a few 4/4s out but he hit a t2 taisigur. Bad beats, this is a winnable match for me.
Match 2 bant spirits 2-0. Won the die roll and dropped 10 goblins with empty on t2 (ty infernal plunge). Game was over shortly thereafter. Game 2 i brought in two bolts and a piledriver (lol pro blue being relevant). I had t3 gift in hand off prospector and 3 marshalls but he quellers the first Marshall. I hit gift next round and grind him out with endless 4/4s. He had a great hand both games but couldn't present a fast enough clock. Match feels great.
Match 3 was jund, 0-2. Game one he wins the die roll and goes bolt, push, ooze eat a dude. Game step is almost the exact same sequence. Wth game. We played another game for fun and I murdered him. I'm going to chalk this up to 50/50. If my opponent misreads the board state and drops a threat prematurely I'm pretty sure I just smash them. Unfortunately it was my bro and he knows the deck because I've been hyping it.
Rest of the meta was scapeshift (probably easy to navigate with gift - as I can sac to get around anger exiling), burn (not bad for me with gate lifegain and blocks for days), and something else I can't remember. Lists were fairly stock to what current large game meta is like accross the board, so I did play against some decently put together decks.
Having to play against two command decks on my virgin run was pretty annoying - not gonna lie. In a more open meta gate is harder to answer game 1.
I didn't resolve a single fecundity all night.
Pitching street wraith felt AMAAZING - swampwalk on a 4/4 zombie if you can recur it with gift is just slam dunk good in some games. Jund has to have board control to not die to them in a couple turns.
I wanna try 4 gates 2 gifts main. I like the CA of fecundity but meh.
I ran apostle's blessing in the side and that card is incredible. It protects the combo, it protects a threat, it lets you punch in for damage. That's a lot for one colorless mana and a couple life...especially since I can sac a gobbo to get it off if prospector is out which always feels good.
I may want the 3rd grenade? I don't know if I want four sac effects in the main though.
3 empty felt right. I don't like 4 because it just rots in my hand way too often.
I was happy with infernal plunge. It led to some of my most explosive starts.
Anyway, imma keep churning through ideas. I strongly encourage you guys to try gate. With so many spells and a decent number of lands, often the filtering is just as good as the card draw since I can pitch crap I don't want (lands, plunge if I don't need it, empty if I'm no where near, etc) and replace it with actual threats. Wishlist is another creature like Marshall that GAINS me mana with prospector and another sac outlet. May try a black build with viscera seer and knucklebone witch and drop green. Seer acts like pseudo copies of prospector and fills up my yard, witch acts like a denizen with better toughness. Side may be better with black, dunno though. I also don't have blackcleave cliffs anymore, which stinks.
Redcap ETB is equal to power, so gift returning it is 4 to the face. Granted it turns off persist, but lets you have another combo kill and reach if you can keep gift on the table.
Combo A: gift back a steady stream of 4/4s. (Pitching wraiths and the sac effects can fill up the yard super fast. Plunge/grenade can help you set up turns 2-3)
Combo B: early storm for 6-8 gobs from empty and bushwacker beats. (War Marshall nets you a mana with prospector out, an active gate can also filter redundant lands to help you find more combo pieces and dig down).
Combo C: sac outlet + redcap + mimic is infinite damage/mana. (Redcap has to be hardcast because the token ceases to exist if you gift it back and it dies. Still a 4/4 mimic or prospector is pretty clutch).
Plan D: aggro beats with denizen and bushwacker. (T1 denizen, t2 two firebrands, t3 go ham with a kicked bushwacker. Fanatics/firebrand/redcap give you reach).
Redcap ETB is equal to power, so gift returning it is 4 to the face. Granted it turns off persist, but lets you have another combo kill and reach if you can keep gift on the table.
Combo A: gift back a steady stream of 4/4s. (Pitching wraiths and the sac effects can fill up the yard super fast. Plunge/grenade can help you set up turns 2-3)
Combo B: early storm for 6-8 gobs from empty and bushwacker beats. (War Marshall nets you a mana with prospector out, an active gate can also filter redundant lands to help you find more combo pieces and dig down).
Combo C: sac outlet + redcap + mimic is infinite damage/mana. (Redcap has to be hardcast because the token ceases to exist if you gift it back and it dies. Still a 4/4 mimic or prospector is pretty clutch).
Plan D: aggro beats with denizen and bushwacker. (T1 denizen, t2 two firebrands, t3 go ham with a kicked bushwacker. Fanatics/firebrand/redcap give you reach).
Going to start testing goblin gathering in place of empty x2 and infernal plunge x2. It's not as explosive, but dumping extras in the yard leads to additional value later on. After one is in the yard the second breaks even on mana and the 3rd and 4th generate mana if I need it. I'm interested because it's just much easier to cast. I'm trading spell slots for spell slots, so gift consistency shouldn't be impacted.
I think the deck needs more grenades for reach. Probably shift mimic /redcap combo down a piece each to squeeze the last two in...
So aggro starts off the back of denizen into burn reach OR hasty 4/4s after t2-3, or bushwacker if going wide. This may be one of those decks that performs well with a transformational sideboard? Not sure if starting out as a combo deck or an aggro deck is better in an open meta.
legion warboss is also an interesting rabblemaster variant. Maybe enough of the two could be strong? I feel like that would be a more piledriver heavy build though.
Desperately need additional prospectors. Even brightstone ritual could be huge for this deck. Several other pieces have redundancy at this point.
Mana generation: skirk prospector, infernal plunge
Aggro: grounded street denizen, goblin piledriver, goblin rabblemaster, legion warboss.
Disruption: blood moon, relic of progenitus, ancient grudge, whatever sideboard needed for the meta.
Sacrifice: skirk prospector (only good repeatable effect right now), mogg fanatic, fanatical firebrand, goblin grenade, infernal plunge.
Right now so much of my build revolves around prospector, and I think they deck is going to be quite potent if we ever get any redundancy for him. I think in the meantime getting some sort of reach or fast aggro starts may be more ideal in an open meta. The metallic mimic combo is probably too cute.
Strongly considering dropping green for black and adding judith, the scourge diva. She does add an incredible amount of reach to the deck and reanimating her off gate is big game. Super unfortunate that her ping isn't for tokens (bummer lol - that would have been a very obvious place to take the deck).
I've also considered tinkering with faithless looting and hollow one. Looting plays really well with gate and cards like gathering (lol) and I'm already on the wraiths. Recurring hollow ones just seems comical to me. Deck becomes crazy soft to artifact removal post board though and it does eat up 8 slots (which means I probably lose a gift of the God pharaoh, the gatherings, the mimic combo, and shave a slot from somewhere else). Keeps the combo variant and gate enables hollow ones drawn after T1/2 in a mana light deck.
First of all... you have to run 4 Fecundity 4 Skirk Prospector to make the deck full "Dirty Kitten". I really don't like the Gate approach as it takes too much time to set up and is only a a very slow clock compared to building an actual aggro alternative gameplan. This "midrange" impression is mediocre at best.
In my last post I already tried to show the potential of Postmortem Lunge for this deck. It actually played very fluently in goldfishes and in the UR Phoenix / GDS matchups I was able to put it against.
I also added one Greater Gargadon as an alternative sac outlet that can be searched and found with commune and traverse to increase the ability of the deck to sac tokens without Skirk Prospector under a resolved Fecundity it also allows to pressure lethal and forces the opponent to hold back if you are behind.
Seismic Assault also fullfills multiple roles. It cleans up the opponent's board and is a mainboard answer to Eidolon of the Great Revel or Eidolon of Rhetoric, it outright kills the opponent during the combo turn if you should be blocked by an Ensnaring Bridge or Fog effect and last but not least you can use it as a way to kill your own guys if you are desperate enough. Also the thought of earth beginning to throw up molten rock after getting served too much goblin fertilizer is amusing imo. If needed at least a second copy could be added to the deck while throwing out one of the following cards to gain more control over our opponent. Grim Lavamancer is also an option.
The one Simian Spirit Guide can easily be replaced. So far I liked it more than Infernal Plunge inside and outside of the combo. The card makes the deck a bit faster and gives you an ensurance during the beginning of the combo turn to hit the crucial 4 mana for [card]Empty the Warrens
[/card].
Noxious Revival can lift some really heavy weight in a combo deck right now. You can run it in the sideboard against Surgical Extraction, but I like it more to show it during my combo turn to make my opponent think about it while sideboarding. If he is commiting more on gravehate to also punish Postmortem Lunge we should get more time for our actual combo out of it. Noxious revival makes the deck a bit more consistant as it allows you to regrow finisher parts or parts to commence with the combo.
Maybe I should hold up the option to add a playset of Lightning Bolt to take care about specific boltable threats or add Guttural Response to weigh against possible blue decks. Leyline of Sanctity might also be an option against discard and burn.
My Wishlist:
I dream about a playset of Cavern of Souls, but I know at the same time that more important cards like Fecundity can't be protected against countermagic as easily. I don't think there is much to wish for this deck exept better search tools.
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My decks:
Competetive: Lantern Control, MonoR Phoenix, Dredge
Meta-Dependant: Modern Cheeri0s, Esper Spirits, Wilderness Teachings , Modern Elves, All-in Death's Shadow, Aristocrats, BW Death&Taxes
Fun own projects: Spireside Industries, UB Scrapyard, Thundercat Worship, Dirty Kitten, RB Rock, Eternal Toolbox
I have been playing the deck since the release of Ravnica: Allegiance. I personally use a list similar to that made by Jim Davis. I have a few questions.
Is the aggro version better than the combo version?
Is the splash for black worth it?
Is Noxious Revival better than Postmortem Lunge?
Would Goblin Bombardment be playable if it was legal? (from Modern Horizons)
Would Goblin Ringleader make the beat down version better? (from Modern Horizons)
1. Aggro vs. combo is meta dependant. In general the combo plan in this deck is stronger than the aggro plan since Modern goblins/Gobots are THE aggro decks with goblins and we aren't a streamlined aggro deck like that.
2. The black splash can destabilize the deck and is in my opinion not worth it. There is Judith, Scourge Diva, which doesn't trigger off tokens and Zulaport Cutthroat,which is ok at his job, but doesn't really contribute unless you are already in the combo. Mapccu proclaiming he wants to drop green is giving me the creeps... The deck needs Fecundity to be Dirty Kitten. I can see the allure of the Redcap Mimic Combo, but it is at least playable in GR.
3. Noxious Revival and Postmortem Lunge are fullfilling two similar, but different Roles. Noxious Revival can give you any card in your graveyard, but placing it on top of the library sometimes means that you will get it not right away, but next turn. If you have a draw possible with it, it still "steals" you this draw. as a Bunus it is instant speed and can counteract Surgical Extraction. Postmortem Lunge could be seen as the card that is fitting better in this deck since it is card neutral during the combo and enables the start of the combo through removal while keeping your hand size stable. Still there are thigs it doesn't do like enabling a Bushwhacker kicker or another Empty the Warrens.
4. Goblin Bombardment would outright replace my copy of Greater Gargadon in my deck. It is a very good tool for board control and with fecundity out a decent combo spark plug until you hit Skirk Prospector. Goblin Ringleader has traditionally played a variety of roles in Goblin decks, but I wouldn't say legacy goblins are a "true aggro" deck. Yes they can be very agressive, but they also rely on Toolbox Tutors such as Goblin Matron and ways to cheat out goblins like Goblin Lackey. I think they are rightfully listed under "Midrange" in the Legacy part of the forum. In my opinion Goblin Ringleader is a toolbox/card advantage card, I would be reluctant to include him in our deck be it for the aggro or control role. I feel a 4 mana dude doesn't benefit either strategy.
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My decks:
Competetive: Lantern Control, MonoR Phoenix, Dredge
Meta-Dependant: Modern Cheeri0s, Esper Spirits, Wilderness Teachings , Modern Elves, All-in Death's Shadow, Aristocrats, BW Death&Taxes
Fun own projects: Spireside Industries, UB Scrapyard, Thundercat Worship, Dirty Kitten, RB Rock, Eternal Toolbox
What is the best color combination for this deck?
Also I have been testing with Eternal Witness and it has been quiet good. What are your thoughts on that?
Eternal Witness is a really interesting Idea for this deck. I run Noxious Revival for this purpose, but Witness changes some things. The card is a body and an effect, you get the card directly into your hand, but she costs 1GG and is sadly not a goblin.
As far as I can imagine the card makes the deck a lot more stable outside of the combo and gives you a decent amount of value as soon as you are near the end of the combo. 1GG might be a bit harsh for the manabase, but it is manageable.
So what are her targets? I imagine spells and lost combo pieces which sounds good. One problem might be that the current meta centers 50% around graveyard dependant decks which is often encountered with hate that also hurt our graveyard dependant cards like Postmortem Lunge and Noxious Revival. If you use 4-6 of these cards including Witness its easy to side them out if the opponent is on a graveyard hate plan while not diluting our combo or aggro plan.
Unlike Revival Eternal Witness only operates in sorcery speed. Keep that in mind when you are testing her. Try to observe when an instant speed effect would have been better.
All in all Witness should work fine in the deck, it only might be clunky in the combo starting turns when you don't have much mana. I wouldn't say its a must have, but it should be a good card against discard and control.
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My decks:
Competetive: Lantern Control, MonoR Phoenix, Dredge
Meta-Dependant: Modern Cheeri0s, Esper Spirits, Wilderness Teachings , Modern Elves, All-in Death's Shadow, Aristocrats, BW Death&Taxes
Fun own projects: Spireside Industries, UB Scrapyard, Thundercat Worship, Dirty Kitten, RB Rock, Eternal Toolbox
So, didnt know this thread existed, but managed to come up with a list on my own last night after a few hours whacking away at a H-Geo Calculator and was referred here. Maybe a fresh perspective could provide something. Here's what came of the math and a few hours of tinkering against friends:
This mana base probably needs work, and my sideboard plan is basically just Blood Moon on 2.
Im interested to see a general lack of experimentation with Goblin Gathering here. I find it's quite relevant while going off, as it has the potential to be a mana positive draw 3-5. A copy or two often ends up in the yard before a cast as well, with Commune and Faithless Looting (Though i've since cut looting). As mentioned, I've done a little math on the fizzle-combo ratio. This list maintains a very high lethality rate, and has a high chance to win on the spot with the engine and one generator, even on an otherwise empty hand. (For reference the averages I used were 4 tokens for EtW, and 3 for GG).
A lot of these lists seem to be lacking the fuel to go the distance on very little. They lack the density of card advantage and mana positivity needed to keep a minimal resource combo realistic. Im obviously new to the archetype, but this seems like a mistake. Theoretically 4 Copies of Noxious Revival(perhaps over Manamorphose? my weakest card by far in testing) could allow us access to 20 cards that net 3 for 1, making up a third of our deck, and reducing the possibility of a fizzle after a successful first cast to almost nothing.
I should mention that my opinions around this are based very much from a Storm-ish point of view, and combo execution consistency is the top priority in mind. Whether these inclinations are right or not, I'm unsure. I think as a concept this deck has a strictly weaker gameplan in game 1 than Gifts Storm. But, Its super fun, and the main is rather budget friendly at the moment outside of the manabase. I'd love to see it go somewhere.
I also started to put this deck together after I realized how cheap and dirty it is. This should however not restrain yourself from upgrading it at whatever cost it may throw at you after assembling the core. I did that little by little.
Its interesting that this deck hasn't had Faithless Looting in its lists for a while. Especially after the uproar around it because of Dredge and Phoenix. I'd like to try it as another tool for card selection and the ability to dig faster for Fecundity/ fill the graveyard for Traverse the Ulvenwald. Maybe the lack of Faithless looting is based on Jim Davis' decks concerning modern Dirty Kitty.
There are some points of criticism I want to give you:
4 Commune with the Gods is maybe a good way to start the combo, but it is also able to kill the combo if you are drawing one of your 18 lands - which also feel a bit too much for a deck with a draw engine as this one. I can only suggest you to use Traverse the Ulvenwald as a similar effect to tutor up missing creatures or lands. It has been a very good card in small amounts and enables you to reduce lands and Communes.
I really don't like Goblin Gathering. Even if you are able to put it into the graveyard the initial cost of 2R makes it really hard to cast at the start of the combo. You are also depending on it to produce at least 3 Goblins to get back enough mana from what you have invested. If your opponent also happens to hate upon the graveyard (not an uncommon thing in this meta) you can get blocked from pulling off the combo very easily. Also I have started to reduce goblin producing spells to creature spells exept Empty the Warrens to be able to get away with the combo through noncreature spell counters such as Negate, Stubborn Denial and Spell Pierce. I understand your need to draw more cards with the deck structure you have, but believe me its a lot more secure to use 2 mana to draw 2 with a deck that has overall less duds while chaining trough the deck. its also always a good thing to have something to do on turn 2. You have Commune with the Gods and Mogg War Marshal. Manamorphose isn't a meaningful turn 2 play without a followup.
Infernal Plunge also hasn't been that impactful in my games, it can be handy in small amounts but you never want to draw it without creatures on the board... which can easily happen if you don't draw War Marshal early ( Its also only really good if you can play it and marshal in the same turn) or in your case you sometimes have to wait for turn 4 to cast it after a 3 mana Goblin summon without using Desperate Ritual... which is just too slow.
I went 3-1 on Friday with my list.
It uses Traverse the Ulvenwald, Street Wraiths, Mishra's Bauble's, Faithless Lootings, and Commune with the Gods as dig engines.
I personally believe four infernal Plunge is too many, but two or three is fine.
I also believe that the majority of non-combo slots should be dedicated to finding the combo.
Also I have a question: Why run Noxious Revivial over Postmortem Lunge.
I still have not figured out how to make so that cards pop up when you hover over there names. Would somebody mine telling how to make that happen? Thanks!
Noxious Revival can recur Goblin Bushwhacker and other finishers without getting rid of the ability to Kicker them or without needing the "creature " tag. Imagine you run only one Bushwhacker and you milled one in an attempt to find Fecundity with Commune with the Gods.
It also can be used against targeted gravehate like surgical extraction on a key piece of the combo.
If you want to know how things are done here in the forum, just use the quote function under a post that has something in it you don't yet understand. You'll effectively get a copy from that code in your textbox. Alternatively there are shortcut buttons that do the same thing right besides the yellow smiley button.
4 Mogg War Marshal
3 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Skirk Prospector
4 Goblin Warchief
3 Krenko, Mob Boss
Enchantment
3 Fecundity
Land
8 Mountain
3 Copperline Gorge
2 Contested War Zone
4 Stomping Ground
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Lightning Bolt
Sorcery
4 Goblin Grenade
4 Infernal Plunge
4 Krenko's Command
2 Dragon Fodder
4 Legion Loyalist
2 Pithing Needle
3 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Ancient Grudge
3 Skullcrack
Overall the combo seems too easy to disrupt in the current configuration, though the aggro plan B is pretty solid. I'm not sure where to go with the deck, but it still feels like it's missing something.
4 Skirk Prospector
4 Mogg War Marshal
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
3 Wild Cantor
4 Memnite
2 Ornithopter
Enchantment
4 Fecundity
Sorcery
3 Commune with the Gods
4 Empty the Warrens
4 Infernal Plunge
3 Kuldotha Rebirth
2 Postmortem Lunge
1 Faithless Looting
1 Grapeshot
3 Mountain
1 Forest
2 Copperline Gorge
3 Stomping Ground
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Ancient Grudge
3 Blood Moon
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Nature's Claim
2 Spellskite
1 Sweltering Sun's
2 Tormod's Crypt
Is this deck more consistent/does it win faster than storm?
and, why no Goblin Electromancer to run alongside/instead of Goblin Warchief?
In my experience, storm is almost always more consistent on a turn 3 kill. It feels like this deck sacrifices turn 3 consistency for the ability to create threatening board states. I've played quite a few games at this point where I end up just making 6 or 8 goblins on turn 3 and hoping it gets there.
As for Electromancer, EonAon hit the nail on the head. It only reduces the Mana cost of empty. In the traverse list, it can also reduce commune with the gods and manamorphose but there no reason I see for playing a third color for reduction of those cards.
Any thoughts on my list?
8 Mountain
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
2 Stomping Ground
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Grapeshot
1 Hordeling Outburst
1 Infernal Plunge
4 Krenko's Command
4 Manamorphose
2 Commune with the Gods
4 Dragon Fodder
4 Empty the Warrens
3 Faithless Looting
1 Noxious Revival
4 Fecundity
1 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Goblin Electromancer
4 Mogg War Marshal
4 Skirk Prospector
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StaffThe deck I used was this:
4 Skirk Prospector
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Mogg War Marshal
Instants & Sorceries
1 Postmortem Lunge
4 Serum Visions
4 Commune with the Gods
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Manamorphose
4 Hordeling Outburst
4 Empty the Warrens
4 Fecundity
Lands
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Breeding Pool
1 Copperline Gorge
4 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Stingscourger
3 Lightning Bolt
1 Tin Street Hooligan
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Destructive Revelery
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Blood Moon
1 Choke
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Engineered Explosives
Round 1 vs Jeskai Queller with Resto and Kiki-Jiki
Game 1 on the draw he out tempo'd me with Spell Queller taking Commune with the Gods, and then blinking it with a Restoration Angel to take Fecundity. I was able to ritual a few times into like 8 Goblins but then died to the flier beats and Bolt+Helix.
Game 2 was more of the same, I got down an early Fecundity but couldn't get anything else to stick and was dead to flyers and burn.
0-2
Round 2 vs UR Kiki-Jiki (Twin wannabe)
Game 1 on the draw again, got to my Turn 3 and played an uncontested Fecundity then combo'd off. All of my Empty the Warrens were in the last ~20 cards of the deck which made for tome on-the-edge comboing, but I got there.
Game 2 on the draw we're going into my third turn. My hand is Fecundity, Manamorphose, Goblin Bushwhacker, and 4 Lands. I draw a second Fecundity and then he flashes in a Vendilion Clique (tapping Steam Vents and 2 Islands). It would have been right to take nothing, but after a bunch of thought he takes the Goblin Bushwhacker (since that's what killed him last game I guess?) and I draw Choke. Slammed it on the table and he conceded.
2-0
Round 3 vs UG Infect
Game 1 on the draw I had what could have hopefully been turned into a Turn 2 win in hand, but he killed me on his Turn 2.
Game 2 I Bolt his Noble Hierarch which slows him down enough that I can play Fecundity then ritual a few times into an Empty the Warrens. I chumped for a turn then topdecked Skirk Prospector to combo off. By the end of it I had 3 Fecundity in play and realized that it's a may trigger. Cards OP.
Game 3 I played a T1 Skirk Prospector, T2 Fecundity, and was about to go off T3 but he Nature's Claim'd then Surgical Extraction'd me. I had enough Mogg War Marshals and Hordeling Outbursts to chump his Glistener Elf for a while but he found an Apostle's Blessing and killed me a few turns later.
1-2
Round 4 vs D&T
Game 1 you can't beat Thalia.
Game 2 he also had a win but wanted to see me combo off so he didn't blow me out of the water with a Thalia + Leonin Arbiter + 3 Strip Mines.
Game 3 I got a quick Empty the Warrens for 8 Goblins, then played a Goblin Bushwhacker to try and beat him quick. He kinda stabilized, but I found a Fecundity and kept on attacking and drawing cards. Then this happened.
2-1
Really I should have gone 1-3, but we'll say it's a 2-2 to give the deck a shred of hope.....
It does absolutely nothing without Fecundity. The backup plan of casting an Empty the Warrens for 6-10 Goblins wasn't super consistent as you needed too many cards to come together for that to happen, or it would happen on turn 3-4 and not be that powerful. That said, a refined version of the deck could allow that to work better. I like the traverse package list Jim Davis ended up on:
4 Skirk Prospector
1 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Mogg War Marshal
4 Wild Cantor
4 Street Wraith
Instants & Sorceries
2 Infernal Plunge
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
3 Commune with the Gods
1 Grapeshot
4 Manamorphose
4 Empty the Warrens
4 Mishra's Bauble
Enchantments
4 Fecundity
Lands
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Arid Mesa
2 Stomping Ground
3 Copperline Gorge
2 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Snow-Covered Forest
3 Ancient Grudge
1 Bedlam Reveler
3 Blood Moon
3 Flame Slash
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Mogg Fanatic
2 Reclamation Sage
Wild Cantor - I reeeeeeeally like this, and the more I played the more I wished it was in my deck. It's like a Pentad Prism that works with Traverse and Fecundity. It allows for a T2 Blood Moon or Fecundity without having to rely on rituals and Manamorphose. This is a must include in some number going forward in my opinion.
Infernal Plunge - This is a neat way to keep some rituals in the deck. I like that he is only playing 2, as the cost of having a creature in play (preferably not Skirk Prospector) is high. I'll have to try it out but getting the random Dark Ritual ever once in a while could be nice. I can see it being one of the first cuts if it is too high variance.
Commune with the Gods - Commune was an all-star in finding either combo piece that I currently didn't have. With the Traverse package it does double-duty by dumping stuff into the yard. I had problems with it at times because of the low creature count in my deck, but an additional 8 hits in the form of Wild Cantor and Street Wraith would help. It can also becomes better post-board as it finds Blood Moon, Choke, or any other spicy Enchantments you can think of. I liked 4, but I can see only playing 3 as I wanted it before trying to combo, but not once I started to go off.
Grapeshot - As I already wrote above, cutting this to the sideboard or entirely for a Goblin Bushwhacker is going to be fine. Game 1 there isn't going to be any hate for just attacking for the win, and it can be brought in to kill stuff or if you can't attack for whatever reason (Ebridge, Thalia, Meddling Mage, etc...).
Traverse the Ulvenwald - I really like Traverse making the deck more consistent, but it seems like it just requires too much extra work. I want to look into cutting Mishra's Bauble in favour of other cards that will either draw cards right away, or help the secondary gameplan of smashing with Goblins. Getting Lands, Sorceries, and Creatures into the graveyard is not going to be a problem at all, but then the elusive fourth card type has to be figured out. Right now I'm thinking it could be instants with Manamorphose + Bolts. I have to play with it to see since the allure of a 48 card deck is real.
Hordeling Outburst - This card was pretty sweet as a mana neutral draw 3, but I'm not entirely convinced that it will be better than the new Goblin Instigator coming out in M19. It's one less goblin, but the Creature tag allows it to interact with Traverse and Commune making them more consistent. Also playing only 17 lands means you might not be hitting 3 naturally very often.
I want to find some happy medium with the deck where it can be a decent aggro deck as well as randomly combo off, but at the moment I haven't found anything that can do that. Foundry Street Denizen seems to be the best bet for tuning to to be more aggro, but I'm not convinced that it's the one card to really make a difference. I'm going to try out something closer to this list and see where it goes.
4 Skirk Prospector
2 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Mogg War Marshal
4 Wild Cantor
4 Street Wraith
Instants & Sorceries
3 Lightning Bolt
1 Infernal Plunge
3 Traverse the Ulvenwald
4 Commune with the Gods
4 Manamorphose
4 Empty the Warrens
2 Mishra's Bauble
Enchantments
4 Fecundity
Lands
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Arid Mesa
2 Stomping Ground
3 Copperline Gorge
2 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Grapeshot
3 Ancient Grudge
4 Blood Moon
2 Choke
2 Flame Slash
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Reclamation Sage
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
4 Skirk Prospector
4 Street Wraith
4 Mogg War Marshal
2 Wild Cantor
1 Zulaport Cutthroat
1 Mogg Fanatic
1 Goblin Bushwhacker
Lands
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Stomping Ground
2 Copperline Gorge
1 Blood Crypt
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Arid Mesa
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
4 Empty the Warrens
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Fecundity
4 Manamorphose
2 Commune with the Gods
2 Infernal Plunge
1 Noxious Revival
1 Claim // Fame
1 Abrade
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Grapeshot
2 Blood Moon
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Bedlam Reveler
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Destructive Revelry
2 Lightning Bolt
This is the Jund version of the Deck I threw together for testing purposes. I play alot on xmage and the black splash pays off imo. Having a fetchable alternate wincon with Zulaport Cutthroat is really nice plus it can win you games through lock pieces like Ensnaring Bridge and Worship etc.
Not totally sure what the correct numbers are here. I agree with the previous posts for the most part, but I think an effort should be made to develop this as a dedicated combo deck, since an aggro-style deck needs too many 'bad aggro cards' in order to function. This being said I find it very consistent so far, being able to go off on turn 3-4 regularly.
Been testing cards like claim//fame and noxious revival in order to see if they work and it has been underwhelming so far.
I will continue testing cards (especially black ones) in this build and see what the results are.
Keep up the good work!
URB
WUR
A black splash could be worth it, but I don’t know. Claim // Fame was incredible in my past testing, and I agree that Cutthroat is an awesome workaround for pesky Bridges, Worship, Leyline of Sanctity, etc.
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
1) cutting rituals. I mean, of course, if you cut rituals you'll have a harder time Emptying on turn 2.
2) 4 Mountains. I don't think anyone has picked up on this yet, but this deck doesn't have to be RG or RG with a blue/black splash. It can be UR with a green splash. I much prefer this if you're going full combo because you get to play Serum Visions. 4 Mountains is definitely wrong, even in pure RG versions.
I'm still trying to improve my build. I think I can cut the aggro plan (FSDs, 2-mana token makers, some Bushwhackers) to push the Empty plan (Sleight of Hand, Manamorphose, maybe a 1-of Past in Flames). Having Manamorphose would also make the Fecundities easier to cast.
Now, on Jim Davis's decklist. I've seen him play it in 2 leagues now with a total record of 7-3 (not counting the first disastrous 1-4 with an admittedly bad list). So far he's mostly beaten random prison (mono-red, UR, Tezzeret) and ramp decks (GB Tron, Ponza). Generally the prison decks just play a lock piece that stops some of his cards but not his ability to draw his deck, so he draws his deck anyway and removes the offending piece, or wins with Bushwhacker/Grapeshot depending on whichever is blocked. The ramp decks don't have much interaction so he just does his thing and they die.
Hordeling Outburst is not necessary in his list since he has Traverse the Ulvenwald, which, when used to find Mogg War Marshal, is like Outburst, except it costs green. I definitely wouldn't cut the Baubles down to 2 since it's a free card type for delirium. He has Infernal Plunge and says it's to net mana during the combo, but if you have Prospector + Fecundity already, it fares no better than Desperate Ritual: saccing a goblin to Prospector nets you +1 card and +1 mana, saccing a goblin to Plunge nets you +1 card and +2 mana, saccing a goblin to Prospector then casting a Desperate Ritual nets you +1 card and +2 mana.
edit: a revised Empty list
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
4 Spirebluff Canal
Kitty pieces
4 Skirk Prospector
4 Mogg War Marshal
4 Hordeling Outburst
4 Fecundity
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Pyretic Ritual
4 Manamorphose
4 Empty the Warrens
Finishers
2 Goblin Bushwhacker
1 Grapeshot
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Grim Lavamancer
1 Shattering Spree
1 Natural State
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Echoing Truth
2 Dispel
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Goblin Rabblemaster
The mana actually works, despite 2 Islands in a deck that's supposed to be red or green. Island + Stomping Ground covers all your turn 2 plays: cantrip + Prospector, MWM, or ritual > ritual > Empty. Any 3rd land lets you cast Fecundity, and any 3rd land other than basic Island lets you cast Hordeling Outburst.
For SBing, first cuts are a Bushwhacker and Manamorphoses. Then if you still need more space, Fecundity or Sleight of Hand goes.
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Big Johnny.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/kuldotha-kitty-opa-style/
2x Goblin Bushwhacker
4x Memnite
4x Mogg War Marshal
4x Ornithopter
4x Skirk Prospector
3x Street Wraith
3x Darksteel Citadel
1x Mountain
3x Stomping Ground
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Fecundity
3x Infernal Plunge
4x Kuldotha Rebirth
3x Traverse the Ulvenwald
4x Manamorphose
3x Mox Opal
2 stomping grounds
4 wooded foothills
7 mountain
4 skirk prospector
4 mogg fanatic
4 fanatical firebrand
4 foundry street denizen
2 goblin bushwacker
4 mogg war Marshall
3 goblin instigator
4 street wraith
2 gate to the afterlife
1 God pharaoh's gift
2 goblin grenade
2 infernal plunge
3 empty the warrens
4 blood moon
2 goblin rabblemaster
2 goblin piledriver
2 stingscourger
2 tin street hooligan
3 lightning bolt
So couple things here. Been playtesting the deck for a bit and the bottle necks on the combo are 4 prospectors and 4 fecundity. The gate to the afterlife package helps keep the deck afloat through aggro and removal with an inevitable late game. Gate acts like fecundity 5-6 and is easier on the mana. Often I'm cycling away smaller dudes or lands anyway.
The sideboard is a land hate package, a stronger aggro package, some artifact removal and some bolts to close out the game.
I like the mogg fanatics because you can use them to pump a foundry street denizen and then fire off on a blocker or key creature like bob. The firebrands are just additional copies of fanatic.
Goblin instigator gets the nod over dragon fodder/krenkos command for the gift package.
Wraith has a nod over mamamorphose because of the gift package.
I opted for 3 empty because without the spell package I don't want to see as many.
So the deck is less explosive t2, but has a much stronger late game where I start jamming 4/4 or bigger hasty zombies game 1.
Plan A is combo through prospector to hit a huge empty and go off with bushwhacker. Plan B is aggro beats around foundry street denizen with the firebrand/fanatic and grenade as reach. Plan c is a mid/late game stream of 4/4 zombie goblins with more etbs to try and jump start the combo route again.
I didn't see any discussion on gate to the afterlife and I absolutely love hitting it in testing so far. It's also super easy to cast compared to fecundity and the filter/life gain is great. Stacked with fecundity makes for an explosive t4.
I've considered dark-dweller oracle as sac outlets 5-6 for more consistency but didn't like it in testing.
Planning on playing at the LGS soon. I'll let y'all know how it goes.
Quick tournament report. I ended up with a different sideboard but mainboard was close except I went 3 gates 3 fecundity instead of the 2/4 split.
Matches
Match one was frixis control 0-2. Lost the die roll. Game one he figured aggro goblins after I led on a denizen and had removal for days. His particular list has no discard but lots of snaps, bolt, push, kcommand and cryptics. I had him at one game one and needed a fanatic or firebrand to seal the deal. Game 2 I finally saw combo pieces but he had two k commands and a snap in hand by the time I had gift online. I did get a few 4/4s out but he hit a t2 taisigur. Bad beats, this is a winnable match for me.
Match 2 bant spirits 2-0. Won the die roll and dropped 10 goblins with empty on t2 (ty infernal plunge). Game was over shortly thereafter. Game 2 i brought in two bolts and a piledriver (lol pro blue being relevant). I had t3 gift in hand off prospector and 3 marshalls but he quellers the first Marshall. I hit gift next round and grind him out with endless 4/4s. He had a great hand both games but couldn't present a fast enough clock. Match feels great.
Match 3 was jund, 0-2. Game one he wins the die roll and goes bolt, push, ooze eat a dude. Game step is almost the exact same sequence. Wth game. We played another game for fun and I murdered him. I'm going to chalk this up to 50/50. If my opponent misreads the board state and drops a threat prematurely I'm pretty sure I just smash them. Unfortunately it was my bro and he knows the deck because I've been hyping it.
Rest of the meta was scapeshift (probably easy to navigate with gift - as I can sac to get around anger exiling), burn (not bad for me with gate lifegain and blocks for days), and something else I can't remember. Lists were fairly stock to what current large game meta is like accross the board, so I did play against some decently put together decks.
Having to play against two command decks on my virgin run was pretty annoying - not gonna lie. In a more open meta gate is harder to answer game 1.
I didn't resolve a single fecundity all night.
Pitching street wraith felt AMAAZING - swampwalk on a 4/4 zombie if you can recur it with gift is just slam dunk good in some games. Jund has to have board control to not die to them in a couple turns.
I wanna try 4 gates 2 gifts main. I like the CA of fecundity but meh.
I ran apostle's blessing in the side and that card is incredible. It protects the combo, it protects a threat, it lets you punch in for damage. That's a lot for one colorless mana and a couple life...especially since I can sac a gobbo to get it off if prospector is out which always feels good.
I may want the 3rd grenade? I don't know if I want four sac effects in the main though.
3 empty felt right. I don't like 4 because it just rots in my hand way too often.
I was happy with infernal plunge. It led to some of my most explosive starts.
Anyway, imma keep churning through ideas. I strongly encourage you guys to try gate. With so many spells and a decent number of lands, often the filtering is just as good as the card draw since I can pitch crap I don't want (lands, plunge if I don't need it, empty if I'm no where near, etc) and replace it with actual threats. Wishlist is another creature like Marshall that GAINS me mana with prospector and another sac outlet. May try a black build with viscera seer and knucklebone witch and drop green. Seer acts like pseudo copies of prospector and fills up my yard, witch acts like a denizen with better toughness. Side may be better with black, dunno though. I also don't have blackcleave cliffs anymore, which stinks.
Redcap ETB is equal to power, so gift returning it is 4 to the face. Granted it turns off persist, but lets you have another combo kill and reach if you can keep gift on the table.
Testing:
4 foundry street denizen
4 skirk prospector
4 mogg fanatic
4 fanatical firebrand
2 goblin bushwacker
4 mogg war Marshall
2 metallic mimic
2 murdurous redcap
4 street wraith
1 fecundity
2 God pharaoh's gift
2 infernal plunge
2 goblin grenade
2 empty the warren
4 blood moon
2 relic of progenitus
2 ancient grudge
1 goblin piledriver
3 apostle's blessing
3 lightning bolt
Combo A: gift back a steady stream of 4/4s. (Pitching wraiths and the sac effects can fill up the yard super fast. Plunge/grenade can help you set up turns 2-3)
Combo B: early storm for 6-8 gobs from empty and bushwacker beats. (War Marshall nets you a mana with prospector out, an active gate can also filter redundant lands to help you find more combo pieces and dig down).
Combo C: sac outlet + redcap + mimic is infinite damage/mana. (Redcap has to be hardcast because the token ceases to exist if you gift it back and it dies. Still a 4/4 mimic or prospector is pretty clutch).
Plan D: aggro beats with denizen and bushwacker. (T1 denizen, t2 two firebrands, t3 go ham with a kicked bushwacker. Fanatics/firebrand/redcap give you reach).
Fitting for the necro theme I want to suggest Postmortem Lunge as a card for enhanced consistency. It can bring back Skirk Prospector if it got removed, if Chalice of the Void is on 1 and also is able to bring back our best other engine piece Mogg War Marshal or the lesser Warren Instigator. It also lets us bring back finisher pieces that have been put into the graveyard with Commune with the Gods: Borborygmos enraged, Bane of Progress and Goblin Warchief.
Hope the Kitty got extra dirty in the grave. Cheers!
Competetive: Lantern Control, MonoR Phoenix, Dredge
Meta-Dependant: Modern Cheeri0s, Esper Spirits, Wilderness Teachings , Modern Elves, All-in Death's Shadow, Aristocrats, BW Death&Taxes
Fun own projects: Spireside Industries, UB Scrapyard, Thundercat Worship, Dirty Kitten, RB Rock, Eternal Toolbox
Going to start testing goblin gathering in place of empty x2 and infernal plunge x2. It's not as explosive, but dumping extras in the yard leads to additional value later on. After one is in the yard the second breaks even on mana and the 3rd and 4th generate mana if I need it. I'm interested because it's just much easier to cast. I'm trading spell slots for spell slots, so gift consistency shouldn't be impacted.
I think the deck needs more grenades for reach. Probably shift mimic /redcap combo down a piece each to squeeze the last two in...
-2 empty the warrens
-2 infernal plunge
-1 metallic mimic
-1 murdurous redcap
+4 goblin gathering
+2 goblin grenade
So aggro starts off the back of denizen into burn reach OR hasty 4/4s after t2-3, or bushwacker if going wide. This may be one of those decks that performs well with a transformational sideboard? Not sure if starting out as a combo deck or an aggro deck is better in an open meta.
legion warboss is also an interesting rabblemaster variant. Maybe enough of the two could be strong? I feel like that would be a more piledriver heavy build though.
Desperately need additional prospectors. Even brightstone ritual could be huge for this deck. Several other pieces have redundancy at this point.
Token gen: empty the warrens, goblin gathering, mogg war-Marshall, warren instigator, goblin rabblemaster, legion warboss.
Draw/loot/cycle: fecundity, gate to the afterlife, street wraith.
Burn: fanatical firebrand, mogg fanatic, goblin grenade, lightning bolt.
Mana generation: skirk prospector, infernal plunge
Aggro: grounded street denizen, goblin piledriver, goblin rabblemaster, legion warboss.
Disruption: blood moon, relic of progenitus, ancient grudge, whatever sideboard needed for the meta.
Sacrifice: skirk prospector (only good repeatable effect right now), mogg fanatic, fanatical firebrand, goblin grenade, infernal plunge.
Right now so much of my build revolves around prospector, and I think they deck is going to be quite potent if we ever get any redundancy for him. I think in the meantime getting some sort of reach or fast aggro starts may be more ideal in an open meta. The metallic mimic combo is probably too cute.
Strongly considering dropping green for black and adding judith, the scourge diva. She does add an incredible amount of reach to the deck and reanimating her off gate is big game. Super unfortunate that her ping isn't for tokens (bummer lol - that would have been a very obvious place to take the deck).
I've also considered tinkering with faithless looting and hollow one. Looting plays really well with gate and cards like gathering (lol) and I'm already on the wraiths. Recurring hollow ones just seems comical to me. Deck becomes crazy soft to artifact removal post board though and it does eat up 8 slots (which means I probably lose a gift of the God pharaoh, the gatherings, the mimic combo, and shave a slot from somewhere else). Keeps the combo variant and gate enables hollow ones drawn after T1/2 in a mana light deck.
I have been dabbling for a while with this deck and wanted to finally post a decklist and some explanations of card choices. Here it comes:
2x Fanatical Firebrand
3x Goblin Bushwhacker
2x Goblin Instigator
1x Greater Gargadon
4x Mogg War Marshal
1x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Skirk Prospector
4x Wild Cantor
Enchantment (5)
4x Fecundity
1x Seismic Assault
Sorcery (13)
2x Commune with the Gods
4x Empty the Warrens
2x Infernal Plunge
3x Postmortem Lunge
2x Traverse the Ulvenwald
1x Copperline Gorge
1x Forest
6x Mountain
4x Stomping Ground
4x Wooded Foothills
Instant (5)
4x Manamorphose
1x Noxious Revival
2x Blood Moon
3x Bridge from Below
2x Cindervines
3x Insolent Neonate
2x Pulse of Murasa
1x Reclamation Sage
2x Tin Street Hooligan
First of all... you have to run 4 Fecundity 4 Skirk Prospector to make the deck full "Dirty Kitten". I really don't like the Gate approach as it takes too much time to set up and is only a a very slow clock compared to building an actual aggro alternative gameplan. This "midrange" impression is mediocre at best.
In my last post I already tried to show the potential of Postmortem Lunge for this deck. It actually played very fluently in goldfishes and in the UR Phoenix / GDS matchups I was able to put it against.
I also added one Greater Gargadon as an alternative sac outlet that can be searched and found with commune and traverse to increase the ability of the deck to sac tokens without Skirk Prospector under a resolved Fecundity it also allows to pressure lethal and forces the opponent to hold back if you are behind.
Seismic Assault also fullfills multiple roles. It cleans up the opponent's board and is a mainboard answer to Eidolon of the Great Revel or Eidolon of Rhetoric, it outright kills the opponent during the combo turn if you should be blocked by an Ensnaring Bridge or Fog effect and last but not least you can use it as a way to kill your own guys if you are desperate enough. Also the thought of earth beginning to throw up molten rock after getting served too much goblin fertilizer is amusing imo. If needed at least a second copy could be added to the deck while throwing out one of the following cards to gain more control over our opponent. Grim Lavamancer is also an option.
The one Simian Spirit Guide can easily be replaced. So far I liked it more than Infernal Plunge inside and outside of the combo. The card makes the deck a bit faster and gives you an ensurance during the beginning of the combo turn to hit the crucial 4 mana for [card]Empty the Warrens
[/card].
Noxious Revival can lift some really heavy weight in a combo deck right now. You can run it in the sideboard against Surgical Extraction, but I like it more to show it during my combo turn to make my opponent think about it while sideboarding. If he is commiting more on gravehate to also punish Postmortem Lunge we should get more time for our actual combo out of it. Noxious revival makes the deck a bit more consistant as it allows you to regrow finisher parts or parts to commence with the combo.
Sideboard:
I used Cindervines and Reclamation Sage as they both can be found with Commune with the Gods. Cindervines also is the better card against storm compared to Destructive Revelry. As many modern deck currently abuse more artifacts (Hollow One,Aethe Vial, Arcbound Ravager and Chalice of the Void) I have also decided to add Tin Street Hooligan as additional hate that can also be sacced with Skirk Prospector if needed. I currently run an experiment with Bridge from Below and Insolent Neonate as an engine that forces the opponent to spend even more ressources on our board and graveyard without losing much in return. I have thought about bringing graveyard hate into the board, but have decided against it as the deck needs a consistent aggressive plan.
Maybe I should hold up the option to add a playset of Lightning Bolt to take care about specific boltable threats or add Guttural Response to weigh against possible blue decks. Leyline of Sanctity might also be an option against discard and burn.
My Wishlist:
I dream about a playset of Cavern of Souls, but I know at the same time that more important cards like Fecundity can't be protected against countermagic as easily. I don't think there is much to wish for this deck exept better search tools.
Competetive: Lantern Control, MonoR Phoenix, Dredge
Meta-Dependant: Modern Cheeri0s, Esper Spirits, Wilderness Teachings , Modern Elves, All-in Death's Shadow, Aristocrats, BW Death&Taxes
Fun own projects: Spireside Industries, UB Scrapyard, Thundercat Worship, Dirty Kitten, RB Rock, Eternal Toolbox
Is the aggro version better than the combo version?
Is the splash for black worth it?
Is Noxious Revival better than Postmortem Lunge?
Would Goblin Bombardment be playable if it was legal? (from Modern Horizons)
Would Goblin Ringleader make the beat down version better? (from Modern Horizons)
2. The black splash can destabilize the deck and is in my opinion not worth it. There is Judith, Scourge Diva, which doesn't trigger off tokens and Zulaport Cutthroat,which is ok at his job, but doesn't really contribute unless you are already in the combo. Mapccu proclaiming he wants to drop green is giving me the creeps... The deck needs Fecundity to be Dirty Kitten. I can see the allure of the Redcap Mimic Combo, but it is at least playable in GR.
3. Noxious Revival and Postmortem Lunge are fullfilling two similar, but different Roles.
Noxious Revival can give you any card in your graveyard, but placing it on top of the library sometimes means that you will get it not right away, but next turn. If you have a draw possible with it, it still "steals" you this draw. as a Bunus it is instant speed and can counteract Surgical Extraction.
Postmortem Lunge could be seen as the card that is fitting better in this deck since it is card neutral during the combo and enables the start of the combo through removal while keeping your hand size stable. Still there are thigs it doesn't do like enabling a Bushwhacker kicker or another Empty the Warrens.
4. Goblin Bombardment would outright replace my copy of Greater Gargadon in my deck. It is a very good tool for board control and with fecundity out a decent combo spark plug until you hit Skirk Prospector. Goblin Ringleader has traditionally played a variety of roles in Goblin decks, but I wouldn't say legacy goblins are a "true aggro" deck. Yes they can be very agressive, but they also rely on Toolbox Tutors such as Goblin Matron and ways to cheat out goblins like Goblin Lackey. I think they are rightfully listed under "Midrange" in the Legacy part of the forum. In my opinion Goblin Ringleader is a toolbox/card advantage card, I would be reluctant to include him in our deck be it for the aggro or control role. I feel a 4 mana dude doesn't benefit either strategy.
Competetive: Lantern Control, MonoR Phoenix, Dredge
Meta-Dependant: Modern Cheeri0s, Esper Spirits, Wilderness Teachings , Modern Elves, All-in Death's Shadow, Aristocrats, BW Death&Taxes
Fun own projects: Spireside Industries, UB Scrapyard, Thundercat Worship, Dirty Kitten, RB Rock, Eternal Toolbox
Also I have been testing with Eternal Witness and it has been quiet good. What are your thoughts on that?
As far as I can imagine the card makes the deck a lot more stable outside of the combo and gives you a decent amount of value as soon as you are near the end of the combo. 1GG might be a bit harsh for the manabase, but it is manageable.
So what are her targets? I imagine spells and lost combo pieces which sounds good. One problem might be that the current meta centers 50% around graveyard dependant decks which is often encountered with hate that also hurt our graveyard dependant cards like Postmortem Lunge and Noxious Revival. If you use 4-6 of these cards including Witness its easy to side them out if the opponent is on a graveyard hate plan while not diluting our combo or aggro plan.
Unlike Revival Eternal Witness only operates in sorcery speed. Keep that in mind when you are testing her. Try to observe when an instant speed effect would have been better.
All in all Witness should work fine in the deck, it only might be clunky in the combo starting turns when you don't have much mana. I wouldn't say its a must have, but it should be a good card against discard and control.
Competetive: Lantern Control, MonoR Phoenix, Dredge
Meta-Dependant: Modern Cheeri0s, Esper Spirits, Wilderness Teachings , Modern Elves, All-in Death's Shadow, Aristocrats, BW Death&Taxes
Fun own projects: Spireside Industries, UB Scrapyard, Thundercat Worship, Dirty Kitten, RB Rock, Eternal Toolbox
4 Skirk Prospector
4 Fecundity
Digging/Win
4 Commune with the Gods
2 Goblin Bushwhacker
Cycling
4 Empty the Warrens
4 Goblin Gathering
4 Hordeling Outburst
4 Mogg War Marshal
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Manamorphose
4 Infernal Plunge
Manabase
5 Mountain
4 Copperline Gorge
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Forest
4 Stomping Ground
4 Blood Moon
3 Cindervines
3 Postmortem Lunge
1 Grapeshot
This mana base probably needs work, and my sideboard plan is basically just Blood Moon on 2.
Im interested to see a general lack of experimentation with Goblin Gathering here. I find it's quite relevant while going off, as it has the potential to be a mana positive draw 3-5. A copy or two often ends up in the yard before a cast as well, with Commune and Faithless Looting (Though i've since cut looting). As mentioned, I've done a little math on the fizzle-combo ratio. This list maintains a very high lethality rate, and has a high chance to win on the spot with the engine and one generator, even on an otherwise empty hand. (For reference the averages I used were 4 tokens for EtW, and 3 for GG).
A lot of these lists seem to be lacking the fuel to go the distance on very little. They lack the density of card advantage and mana positivity needed to keep a minimal resource combo realistic. Im obviously new to the archetype, but this seems like a mistake. Theoretically 4 Copies of Noxious Revival(perhaps over Manamorphose? my weakest card by far in testing) could allow us access to 20 cards that net 3 for 1, making up a third of our deck, and reducing the possibility of a fizzle after a successful first cast to almost nothing.
I should mention that my opinions around this are based very much from a Storm-ish point of view, and combo execution consistency is the top priority in mind. Whether these inclinations are right or not, I'm unsure. I think as a concept this deck has a strictly weaker gameplan in game 1 than Gifts Storm. But, Its super fun, and the main is rather budget friendly at the moment outside of the manabase. I'd love to see it go somewhere.
I also started to put this deck together after I realized how cheap and dirty it is. This should however not restrain yourself from upgrading it at whatever cost it may throw at you after assembling the core. I did that little by little.
Its interesting that this deck hasn't had Faithless Looting in its lists for a while. Especially after the uproar around it because of Dredge and Phoenix. I'd like to try it as another tool for card selection and the ability to dig faster for Fecundity/ fill the graveyard for Traverse the Ulvenwald. Maybe the lack of Faithless looting is based on Jim Davis' decks concerning modern Dirty Kitty.
There are some points of criticism I want to give you:
4 Commune with the Gods is maybe a good way to start the combo, but it is also able to kill the combo if you are drawing one of your 18 lands - which also feel a bit too much for a deck with a draw engine as this one. I can only suggest you to use Traverse the Ulvenwald as a similar effect to tutor up missing creatures or lands. It has been a very good card in small amounts and enables you to reduce lands and Communes.
I really don't like Goblin Gathering. Even if you are able to put it into the graveyard the initial cost of 2R makes it really hard to cast at the start of the combo. You are also depending on it to produce at least 3 Goblins to get back enough mana from what you have invested. If your opponent also happens to hate upon the graveyard (not an uncommon thing in this meta) you can get blocked from pulling off the combo very easily. Also I have started to reduce goblin producing spells to creature spells exept Empty the Warrens to be able to get away with the combo through noncreature spell counters such as Negate, Stubborn Denial and Spell Pierce. I understand your need to draw more cards with the deck structure you have, but believe me its a lot more secure to use 2 mana to draw 2 with a deck that has overall less duds while chaining trough the deck. its also always a good thing to have something to do on turn 2. You have Commune with the Gods and Mogg War Marshal. Manamorphose isn't a meaningful turn 2 play without a followup.
Infernal Plunge also hasn't been that impactful in my games, it can be handy in small amounts but you never want to draw it without creatures on the board... which can easily happen if you don't draw War Marshal early ( Its also only really good if you can play it and marshal in the same turn) or in your case you sometimes have to wait for turn 4 to cast it after a 3 mana Goblin summon without using Desperate Ritual... which is just too slow.
Competetive: Lantern Control, MonoR Phoenix, Dredge
Meta-Dependant: Modern Cheeri0s, Esper Spirits, Wilderness Teachings , Modern Elves, All-in Death's Shadow, Aristocrats, BW Death&Taxes
Fun own projects: Spireside Industries, UB Scrapyard, Thundercat Worship, Dirty Kitten, RB Rock, Eternal Toolbox
It uses Traverse the Ulvenwald, Street Wraiths, Mishra's Bauble's, Faithless Lootings, and Commune with the Gods as dig engines.
I personally believe four infernal Plunge is too many, but two or three is fine.
I also believe that the majority of non-combo slots should be dedicated to finding the combo.
Also I have a question: Why run Noxious Revivial over Postmortem Lunge.
I still have not figured out how to make so that cards pop up when you hover over there names. Would somebody mine telling how to make that happen? Thanks!
It also can be used against targeted gravehate like surgical extraction on a key piece of the combo.
But never ever play Noxious Revival OVER Postmortem Lunge. Postmortem is better but you need both imo.
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Competetive: Lantern Control, MonoR Phoenix, Dredge
Meta-Dependant: Modern Cheeri0s, Esper Spirits, Wilderness Teachings , Modern Elves, All-in Death's Shadow, Aristocrats, BW Death&Taxes
Fun own projects: Spireside Industries, UB Scrapyard, Thundercat Worship, Dirty Kitten, RB Rock, Eternal Toolbox