You know you're probably right about the Engineered Explosives, I was thinking for storm it'd be nice to play it on 0, but it definitely hoses us. Right now the green splash is really only for Teeg and I'm not sure he's that good. I think there's gotta be another green payoff to justify dealing with blood moon. Maybe Voice or Knight of Autumn would be good?
I'm also maybe thinking about adding a hallowed fountain, breeding pool, some flooded strands, and 4 nobles to turn it bant, and maybe throw in unified will or rhox monk, some other crazy value card.
Blue Splash - hallowed fountain, breeding pool, some flooded strands, and 4 nobles -> unified will or rhox monk
Yeah, maybe, but, nah. Manaleak is prolly better, and 3 cost for a 3/4 is just not enough.
Consistency works.
I don't think Blue is worth it. But, go ahead.
I have a few thoughts, it’s ok to allow Teeg to “randomly win games” but if the deck is really as good as you say it is, you should now be concerned with making it consistently win rather than randomly, I’ve been trying it out with my play group and it is a solid list but there is absolutely room for improvement.
Rhox monk isn’t just 3 for a 3/4, it’s 3 for a 3/4 with lifelink that very reasonably is either a 4/5 with Marshal or a whopping 5/6 with Liege that may attack as a 6/7 with Noble! That’s crazy value and could absolutely win games.
As far as Ethersworn/EngEx/Voice/Knight, I think you’re dead wrong, but you are 100% entitled to your opinions. Since you say the deck is solid and don’t seem to have any interest in its development, I’m going to take my testing and working of the deck off this thread, best of luck to you, friend!
I skipped thru the past 4 pages, and All of the cards suggested are typed about.
Aethersworn canonist page 1 = 9 times, Page 4 = 4 times
Knight of Autumn page 3 = 2 times, page 4 = 2 times
Voice of Resurgence page 3 = 2 times, page 4 = 2 times
Engineered Explosives Page 3 = 4 times, page 4 = 1 time (all by opponents)
.
Why start again on page 5 with stuff already mentioned 13 times, played and discarded?
.
Try Your setup with a Spectral Procession instead of the Monk, and a Kytheon instead of the NobleH :
Spectral Procession is 3x 1/1, with flying
With a marshal they are 3 x 2/2, with flying (6 damage, not 5)
With a Kytheon, you have a plainswalker as well. The plainswalker means Wrath doesn't work, or their problem creature has to attack Gideon, or a token is an untapped, indestructible blocker.
.
The Marshal / Liege directly interferes with the exalted trigger on the next turn, because the lord wants to attack as well. And it works on the (Kytheon/Gideon).
.
Against Path to Exile, or Fatal Push, your entire scenario just stops as they kill the Rhox.
Or Venser, Terminate, Assasains trophy, Ensnaring bridge. . .lots.
.
Against a blocker that disappears, Rhox gets nothing. Attack into a Death Shadow, or Primal Titan, or Wurmcoil, and it is bad.
Against a swarm of ground creatures, (pyromancer, swarm red or Green), Rhox can't kill them.
.
If you read the past 5 pages, I have actively played Aethersworn canonist, tried Knight of Autumn, and gone in depth over how and why Voice is just not being good enough. I just covered why Engineered Explosives is counterintuitive.
Last night, I played against Tron. Tron is my fall back enemy, and none of those cards do anything against it.
All of them are entirely reasonable cards, quality cards, but, I have been there, and played that
I am interested in developing the deck, but I have developed way past those cards.
.
But Bant for Rhox War Monk? Why suddenly become so vulnerable land problems, colour screw, Blood Moon . . .
Why would you think Lifegain is important?
Against Red, it absolutely is. And the Noble Hierarch will get Burnt the moment he arrives.
A Rhox War Monk gets to attack on turn 4, provided you get perfect land. And the perfect land will cause you pain, a lot of pain.
Sometimes, Yeah, against red he will live to do that, and sometimes it will be enough.
Against every other deck type, Rhox seems a very ordinary victory condition.
.
In what way is Rhox War mock better than Mantis Rider? One less toughness for Flying vigilance AND haste?
And all the interacting bonus combos with the rest of their deck?
You attack with the single Rhox, they tap an aether vial, play a reflector mage, and win.
.
You are not thinking about the interactions between your cards and theirs.
A 5/6 ground pounder beats What?
.
But. How is better to cast a Rhox on turn 2 instead of having 3x 2/1 creatures?
Turn 1 Dryad Militant can just win the game, same as attack on turn 3 with 3 creatures, because Kytheon flips. That just aint the gameplan if Noble H appeared on turn 1.
Have you considered hero of the precinct one?
As you run
4 dryad Militant
3 teeg
3 Wilt-Leaf Liege
That can trigger it. I feel like I'd want 1 more strong multi colored tirgger to work. Is there one you would consider?
And is champion of the parish worth running? As there are currently 16 trigger for him in the deck
So after I've played Vintage tournament in our local store (proxy of course) with Mono W Hatebears and borrowed some ideas to implement to this deck.
Given that Modern is getting faster and faster (it's actually looking more and more similar to Legacy/Vintage now) I've realised my deck can't keep up with most meta decks. So I started to tune it down making it more of a Hatebear style deck.
I got rid of Soldier of the Pantheons, Legion's Landing and Isamaru. They are too small and not impactful enough nowadays. Instead I went for Judge's Familiars and Leonin Arbiters. I felt that the hate and slowing pace of the game these guys provide are more useful now for White Weenie. If I stop them doing unfair things my 3+ drop package will hurt much more. After all 3 1/1 Spirit Tokens don't do much when other decks can bounce my board and attack for 10 in the same turn.
Running Leonin Arbiters made me maindeck Path to Exiles. It really makes it bonkers, as well as Ghost Quarter though it's nonbo with Flagstones of Trokair - I may change it for simple Plains.
Thanks to maindecking Paths I've got more free slots in sideboard now and revamped it a little though I'll need more playtesting to improve it. A lot of possibilities here.
Went 2/1 on FNM with deck above but -1 Arbiter for +1 Selfless.
Match 1 vs Izzet Phoenix, won 2:1
Game 1 won - enemy flooded and couldn't find phoenixes, not much to talk about. Pathing TITI before he flipped was crucial as well.
Game 2 he was beating me with 2 Phoenixes since turn 2, way too fast for me.
Game 3 won - turn 1 Judge's Familiar into turn 2 little Thalia into turn 3 Dryad and Selfless Spirit slowed him hard enough. Felt amazing to do such thing while still giving beats. Leonin Relic-Warder caught stacked Pyromancer Ascension which was crucial as well.
Match 2 vs Boros Burn, won 2:0
Game 1 again opp flooded and after some time I had 2 spirits, Marshal and 2 WLL's.
Game 2 won - opening hand with Leyline of Sanctity and 2x Martyr of Sands, on turn 3 I had 39 health. After that I had plenty of time to build up. Leonin Arbiter did some job too as opponent sat with 2 mana whole game.
Match 3 vs Bant Toolbox, lost 0:2
Game 1 was even but I missplayed picking wrong Path target and he went off with his combo.
Game 2 I sat on 2 mana and he turn 3'd CoCo into Kira and some other creature that was relevant for him (forgot what it was). Couldn't even Path anything in response...
Overall he had amazing hand in both games and played 3 great CoCo's which was harsh.
After these I played another game vs 8Rack for funzies and lost 2:1. I lost mostly because of mistakes and I think it should've done much better if I didn't make my mistakes. Something to learn from.
Eiganjo saved little Thalia once.
Kytheon flipped once vs Phoenix and made Thalia indestructible. Shefet Dunes gave enough dmg to finish 8Rack off. Leonin Arbiter denied land from Path once but it didn't matter that much. Also denied land from GQ - didn't matter neither.
GQ on Flagstones gave me white mana to Path TITI. It was still a thing even while playing Arbiter. Judge's Familiar saved little Thalia once from removal. He felt like little Selfless Spirit!
Overall I liked this variation more than the one before. The distruption package really paid off, Judge's Familiar overperformed, can't say the same about Leonin Arbiter. Me and Bant player both agreed that cat would be much better in deck with Aether Vial and he should be the target to change in this deck. Still he's doing work against every deck equally and will stick to him for now.
Next time I'll try 4x Arbiters and add 3x Phyrexian Revokers. He can name a lot of stuff nowadays, be it ramp creatures, planeswalkers, Devoted Druid, Aether Vial, Cranial Plating, Mox Opal, Lantern cards... Lot of utility but no hate vs graveyard decks...
Probably I'll go down with Spectral Procession. I dislike this idea but it's the only one I have as I feel they're least relevant in this deck now.
I really hope Containment Priest will be printed in Modern Horizons as it would be fantastic to have in current metagame.
4th spirit is something I consider but ultimately I settled on 3 copies with 4th in sideboard as there aren't really that many board wipes flying around.
Arbiter, while not amazing, is overall good hatebear that works around whole field. Other bears aren't that versatile. Turn 1 Familiar into turn 2 Arbiter screwes with most decks hard especially on play and makes cat resilient. Also Arbiter makes Path and GQ better.
Going vs tribal decks is hard as they most of the time grow even bigger than mine. Still there is a chance to fight them with 7 anthem creatures and I'd rather cut Spectral Procession rather than these. 3 mana is a lot and without pump all they really do is chump.
Maybe I should move big Thalias to sideboard though and actually play with Procession main. Something to consider.
Speaking of sideboard - I'm still working on it. I think Kataki isn't that good nowadays and adding 4th Leo-RW in side alongside 2 Stony Silence would be decent enough as he really overperformed during my games. Phyrexian Revoker hates on artifacts with activated abilities as well and playing him maindeck also does some work. I don't think Affinity is that scary and it's the only reason to play Kataki. Leyline of Sanctity is here not only for Burn but mostly for hand distruption. I've already lost way too many times because I had some crucial hate card discarded and that was true mainly vs Lantern and 8Rack when my only out was Leo-RW catching Ensnaring Bridge. Also does some work vs Storm and Ad Nauseam.
Also though I have not enough GY hate with literally nothing maindeck and only 3 RiP in side. I think I should try to play some maindeckable GY hate but everything seems underwhelming with Remorseful Cleric and Jötun Grunt being only viable options for me. Containment Priest would fix this hole so good WotC pls.
Finished FNM with 3/2 record... Actually 2/2 because of Bye.
I thought a little about this deck and decided to roll with old, more agressive and less hatebeary list but with some new additions:
Match 2 vs Dredgevine??? Some dredge'y brew, won 2:1
Game 1 he started with Stitcher's Supplier and got Gravecrawler and 2x Prized Amalgam from it... Not cool. But I started with t1 Dryad, t2 nothing, t3 Marshal, t4 WLL, t5 Spectral and I had my defences strong enough to stabilize the board. I would've won that but he topdecked Narcomoeba to chump the lethal and then topdecked Skaab Ruinator that just screwed me over. We both had defences up and running and it was flyers fight. My 3 2/2 Spirits vs his Narcomoeba and Skaab - Skaab did the work.
Game 2 I was on some real agression but he just recurred Darkblast over and over and just killed my 2/1's at the cost of not casting any creatures whatsoever. After some time big Thalia and 2 Spirits pushed through so I could play WLL from Windbrisk Heights for the win.
Game 3 was tough and even game board-wise. He had some bad luck because he threw all removal with Stitcher's Supplier and dredge. After some time I pushed through with superior numbers. Shefet Dunes buffed for perfect lethal.
Match 3 vs Bant Eldrazi, lost 0:2
Game 1 after mull to 6 I kept veeeery bad hand with 3 little Thalias and 1 big one. He just bashed me with Thought-Knot Seer and I had nothing to really defend with. My bad, should've mulled further to 5 especially that I was on draw.
Game 2 was better, Phyrexian Revoker naming Noble Hierarch slowed him down a bit. Still he got 3 Seers on board + Eldrazi Displacer blinking them over and over and preventing my Kytheon from flipping. After some time he played Worship, and my only way to win the game was to flip Kytheon. Drew all 3, every single one got Pathed. I threw away Leo-RW's into sideboard... A mistake that pretty much lost me this one.
Match 4 vs Mardu Pyromancer, won 2:0
Game 1 Phyrexian Revoker named Lilianna of the Veil and it was well worth it as he had one in hand. He traded 1 for 1 well but Spectral Procession was too much value for him. Also had Marshal and 2 Selfless Spirits and just stomped him with bigger creatures.
Game 2 was similar, he traded 1 for 1 early game generating tokens but t4 WLL into t5 WLL he just couldn't beat. Ensnaring Bridge was eaten by Leo-RW and I swung for lethal.
Match 5 vs my favourite Bant Toolbox, lost 0:2
Game 1 was favorable at the beginning, had 5 creatures turn 4 but couldn't find any pump for the rest of the game. He just had bigger creature. Swinging with Spell Queller for 5 every turn while having enough defence dealt with me.
Game 2 I lost because of my own mistake - I went greedy and smashed t4 WLL. Instead I should wait with Path because he had Basilisk Collar and he only needed to tutor Walking Ballista and wipe my board. Which he did.
Shefet Dunes won 2nd game in last 2 weeks. But had 2 in my opening hand once as my only W sources and dealt ~6 dmg to me. I don't really think it mattered during this matchup because I was already far behind in board during this game. I think I'll cut 1 for simple Plains because if it was some other deck it would probably be fatal.
Isamaru was relevant twice - vs Dredge player he survived -1/-1 removals and vs Eldrazi he actually traded because of Eiganjo. Soldier of the Pantheon dealt free 6 dmg vs Toolbox player because he had nothing to block him with... He actually flashed Spell Queller to block him and had no creatures afterwards. Judges Familiar didn't matter in any single game.
Kytheon didn't flip once but he was a threat opponents always wanted to kill in the first place.
Revoker was very cool, I wish I had him vs Toolbox player. Sucked that he didn't get buffed from WLL and he was just a 2/1 for the rest of one game while Dryad was a whooping 6/5. Spectral Procession regularly overperformed, I don't know why I even though about cutting them.
Sometimes Familiars overperform, sometimes Leo RW overperform, sometimes they feel underwhelming, never something in the middle.
Games I won felt like it was because of my opponents doing mistakes or having bad luck.
Games I lost felt like it was because I did mistakes or they had great hands.
Not a single game felt like we both did our best and just the one that played better won.
I know I could play ~3 games better and could've won like 1 or 2 of them but oh well, I didn't.
Overall not the best performance from my side. But hey, I got foiled Flagstones!
Has anyone here considered Venerated Loxodon ?
It similar to Wilt-Leaf Liege and Benalish Marshal in the ability to pump the small creatures and tokens but it can come down faster (even for free) thanks to convoke though it would require to avoid attacking for a turn to convoke it.
Also, as far as 1-drops are concerned why isn't Dauntless Bodyguard in the conversation ?
It is yet another 2/1 for 1 but the ability is actually pretty good being able to protect a key creature for (non-exile) removal.
I've also seen Leonin Relic-Warder mainboarded here which seems really odd, why is this a maindeck card rather than a SB option ?
As a SB card it is probably worse than a non-creature option like Disenchant/Fragmentize against deck which actually play removal.
If you want to maindeck an answer to artifacts/enchantments why not go with Banishing Light or Conclave Tribunal (for the convoke) which can also remove creatures and PW's ? (it is not like the 2/2 body is that good anyway).
Also, in a GW version of the deck Qasali Pridemage and Knight of Autumn are much better options for this role anyway.
Martyr of Sands is a card that I don't really understand as a SB option here, if it is for Burn than it seems too hit & miss to me as you pretty much need to have it in your opener to get value out of it and it is a horrible topdeck (especially in a deck without Squadron Hawk to support it like in the "Martyr-Proc" deck). Kor Firewalker, Auriok Champion or even Lone Missionary would be better options to fight Burn decks imho.
Match 1 vs Bant Toolbox, won 2:0
Game 1 named Birds of Paradise with Phyrexian Revoker denying him the much needed ramp. Because of that he couldn't keep up with me and I just stomped him with superior forces.
Game 2 was pretty much the same - Revoker on his mana dork slowing him down and smashing him good. He did have some defences up and running but I went wider. 2x Soldier of the Pantheon on board vs his 2 mana dorks and Spell Queller dealt a lot of dmg in this game. Kytheon flipped but didn't matter that much.
Match 2 vs Ad Nauseam, won 2:1
Game 1 I wasn't fast and distruptive enough to stop him from going off. Little Thalia slowed him for 1 turn but that wasn't enough.
Game 2 Revoker named Pentad Prism and screwed his mana to combo off - he lacked 2nd to cast Ad Nauseam.
Game 3 got Revoker from Windbrisk Heights naming his Lotus Bloom just in time for him to combo off next turn. Again Shefet Dunes buffed the team for lethal but I still think I had this game already.
Match 3 vs 8Rack, won 2:0
Game 1 was a race but I managed to win this. Selfless Spirit prevented him from wiping my board with Bontu's Last Reckoning
Game 2 mulled to 6, kept 4 lands, Soldier and WLL, he played turn 1 Blackmail, gave him 3 lands, my turn 1 drew land, played Soldier, he then turn 2 Thoughtsiezed me and was forced to discard WLL. After that I top decked little Thalia and he conceded
Phyrexian Revoker was HUGE. Distrupting their mana fixing was crucial in first 2 matches. Without him I'd definately lose at least 3 games. Obviously he isn't doing much vs Drakes or Dredge but against rest of the field (and my local meta) he's doing wonders. Soldier of the Pantheon isn't looking good right now. His protection mattered against one deck but overall it's very narrow and most of the time he's just a Savannah Lions.
Haven't seen Legion's Landing for a long time in this deck and I don't think it's something I want to see in my hand.
I may try Student of Warfare next time. Maybe will come back to Judge's Familiar as well.
Yeah, both Selfless Spirit and Phyrexian Revoker overperformed in last FNM and I think the numbers are correct. Thought about adding 4th Revoker but he is pretty useless vs Phoenix and Dredge which are big portion of current metagame right now. He may fill Legion's Landing spot nicely though. Something to think about.
Student of Warfare is much better topdeck than Soldier of the Pantheon in mid-late game. Also he's the only real mana sink. Either oponent deals with him early enough - spending removal on 1 mana 1/1 - or he grows to huge unstoppable threat. These kind of games may and will definately happen more often or not. SotP is always just a 2/1 with mediocre ability.
Obviously I didn't test Knight but I see the potential and am willing to test this guy anyways. Him or Figure of Destiny.
Maybe will go with 2x Judge's Familiar in place of Legion's Landing and 1 SotP...
I also have problem with sideboard. In 2 weeks we have a bigger modern tournament and I'm willing to play this deck. I'm pretty sure that there will be top meta decks and my sideboard isn't properly build for this environment.
For now I'm sure on:
4x Path to Exile - for nasty creature decks;
3x Rest in Peace - GY hate
2x Leonin Relic-Warder - for Tron, Vial, prison, Hardened Scales
6 slots I'm unsure about. Martyr of Sands - vs burn, Storm, Scapeshift, much bigger counter vs "deal 20 dmg ASAP" decks. Leyline of Sanctity - vs burn, Storm, Scapeshift, discard, some parts of Lantern, more flexible and all rounded than Martyr but it's not as explosive and Repeal is a thing Ethersworn Canonist or Eidolon of Rhetoric - vs Phoenix, Storm, other combo/draw-a-lot decks, canonist is faster but more vunerable to removal, Eidolon is more expensive but survives Bolt and Push (mostly) Damping Sphere vs Phoenix, Tron, Storm Kataki, War's Wage - mostly vs affinity and prison decks but seems too narrow and weak Stony Silence - strong but has no legs,
I think 2x Damping Sphere, 2x Canonist/Eidolon and 2x Kataki/Stony is the way to go. Makes me vunerable to burn matchups though... Thoughts?
Also thinking about Worship as a card of choice vs combo (and control if I get Kytheon) decks because I'm so heavy creature/low spell deck.
Turn 2, Get Karn. Get a confusing card from my sideboard.
Turn 3 Dampening Sphere seems berserk against Tron.
That would take some time to get used to playing, and fighting.
Ghost quarter and Little T & Big Thalia would also be in play against Tron.
The Karn Angle is huge because it wipes out the entire sideboard.
No sideboard at all, because it is eaten by Karn and his snazzy tricky.
Only Urza's Ruinous Blast.
And way cool that it is, losing an entire sideboard is gunna be hard to justify as they discard or duress or counter Karn.
I spoze it is sorta a recovery button on Ugin, but, seems hopeful.
.
When it goes off, it is going to be a thing of beauty. And good luck to it.
This deck will regularly have games where the legend rule kicks it in the nuts.
Say you draw 2 Castles so you cant cast your Three copies of Little Thalia
Them making this more likely by thoughtseizing your other good play is gunna be embarrassing.
I have shaved down all of those excess legends because they just are not good enough.
By themselves anyway.
14 white sources seems probably enough, but some of those planeswalkers are double white.
14 initial white and 4 x Mox Amber is also gunna be rough sometimes.
Getting a plains from a GQ sacrifice is desperation pain.
Those good old double and triple Legend not providing the second white on a planeswalker situations.
Make my eyes wince.
Leonin Arbiter is no longer in the theme, except that they interact quite well with Ghost Quarter and Path.
Thing is, Leo just isn't strong enough, I feel.
If you draw 2 of them, the effect is not double in any meaningful way. Often it does no more than the first. And the first may not have done anything yet.
And when exactly does this new thing actually win?
The new kid is trying to do interference, quickly.
And then strangle a win using walkers and lil' white Legends.
I understand Isamaru & Kytheon.
Kytheon wants to go wide, with bro's not with toys, like Copter and Heart.
Giving little Thalia a job once she can't attack any more is cute, with the copter.
Rhys the Redeemed - Is Not Good Enough
He is not being played because he is expected to win the game with his ability.
He is there as fuel mostly. For the Mox and Mobilize distict. But by himself he really is not good enough.
It is very cute in the way Karn has eaten the sideboard. All normal decks get to be improved between games 1 & 2/3. Not that one.
Some doofuses end up running across the ground, and hitting them, Is that the plan?
When they hit the wrath button, there will be 10 planeswalkers, so we don't need to worry?
And the vehicles will survive too. I spoze.
Gideon plus the Heart of Kirin the turn after a wrath seems rather insulting.
I like mine more, I'm like that.
It seems a very different approach. Fair enough I spoze, but a lot less resilient, or redundant
I still like mine, and I would be interested to know which would win. Especially after sideboarding.
Gaddock turns off Karn, And sure Path and so on. But I get Path to in games 2 & 3 and you need them more.
I often have a significant Air wing. Often with 3 power, which should kill this deck.
My land is better. I am playing Windbrisk Heights, and Dryad and more colour and stuff. Rant rant rant.
And I get to play ridiculous spells in the sideboard, because I get one.
The Cutesy legends are about stopping them. Interfering and annoying and taxing and slowing.
Mine is about killing, You.
I'm also maybe thinking about adding a hallowed fountain, breeding pool, some flooded strands, and 4 nobles to turn it bant, and maybe throw in unified will or rhox monk, some other crazy value card.
Yeah, maybe, but, nah. Manaleak is prolly better, and 3 cost for a 3/4 is just not enough.
Consistency works.
I don't think Blue is worth it. But, go ahead.
Rhox monk isn’t just 3 for a 3/4, it’s 3 for a 3/4 with lifelink that very reasonably is either a 4/5 with Marshal or a whopping 5/6 with Liege that may attack as a 6/7 with Noble! That’s crazy value and could absolutely win games.
As far as Ethersworn/EngEx/Voice/Knight, I think you’re dead wrong, but you are 100% entitled to your opinions. Since you say the deck is solid and don’t seem to have any interest in its development, I’m going to take my testing and working of the deck off this thread, best of luck to you, friend!
Aethersworn canonist page 1 = 9 times, Page 4 = 4 times
Knight of Autumn page 3 = 2 times, page 4 = 2 times
Voice of Resurgence page 3 = 2 times, page 4 = 2 times
Engineered Explosives Page 3 = 4 times, page 4 = 1 time (all by opponents)
.
Why start again on page 5 with stuff already mentioned 13 times, played and discarded?
.
Try Your setup with a Spectral Procession instead of the Monk, and a Kytheon instead of the NobleH :
Spectral Procession is 3x 1/1, with flying
With a marshal they are 3 x 2/2, with flying (6 damage, not 5)
With a Kytheon, you have a plainswalker as well. The plainswalker means Wrath doesn't work, or their problem creature has to attack Gideon, or a token is an untapped, indestructible blocker.
.
The Marshal / Liege directly interferes with the exalted trigger on the next turn, because the lord wants to attack as well. And it works on the (Kytheon/Gideon).
.
Against Path to Exile, or Fatal Push, your entire scenario just stops as they kill the Rhox.
Or Venser, Terminate, Assasains trophy, Ensnaring bridge. . .lots.
.
Against a blocker that disappears, Rhox gets nothing. Attack into a Death Shadow, or Primal Titan, or Wurmcoil, and it is bad.
Against a swarm of ground creatures, (pyromancer, swarm red or Green), Rhox can't kill them.
.
If you read the past 5 pages, I have actively played Aethersworn canonist, tried Knight of Autumn, and gone in depth over how and why Voice is just not being good enough. I just covered why Engineered Explosives is counterintuitive.
Last night, I played against Tron. Tron is my fall back enemy, and none of those cards do anything against it.
All of them are entirely reasonable cards, quality cards, but, I have been there, and played that
I am interested in developing the deck, but I have developed way past those cards.
.
But Bant for Rhox War Monk? Why suddenly become so vulnerable land problems, colour screw, Blood Moon . . .
Why would you think Lifegain is important?
Against Red, it absolutely is. And the Noble Hierarch will get Burnt the moment he arrives.
A Rhox War Monk gets to attack on turn 4, provided you get perfect land. And the perfect land will cause you pain, a lot of pain.
Sometimes, Yeah, against red he will live to do that, and sometimes it will be enough.
Against every other deck type, Rhox seems a very ordinary victory condition.
.
In what way is Rhox War mock better than Mantis Rider? One less toughness for Flying vigilance AND haste?
And all the interacting bonus combos with the rest of their deck?
You attack with the single Rhox, they tap an aether vial, play a reflector mage, and win.
.
You are not thinking about the interactions between your cards and theirs.
A 5/6 ground pounder beats What?
.
But. How is better to cast a Rhox on turn 2 instead of having 3x 2/1 creatures?
Turn 1 Dryad Militant can just win the game, same as attack on turn 3 with 3 creatures, because Kytheon flips. That just aint the gameplan if Noble H appeared on turn 1.
As you run
4 dryad Militant
3 teeg
3 Wilt-Leaf Liege
That can trigger it. I feel like I'd want 1 more strong multi colored tirgger to work. Is there one you would consider?
And is champion of the parish worth running? As there are currently 16 trigger for him in the deck
Competitive Decks
Devotion to the Lash B ----
Monkey Conservation WUGR ---- Dragon WorshipR
1x Eiganjo Castle
4x Flagstones of Trokair
4x Ghost Quarter
8x Plains
2x Shefet Dunes
3x Windbrisk Heights
1-drops (13)
4x Dryad Militant
3x Judge's Familiar
3x Kytheon, Hero of Akros
4x Leonin Arbiter
2x Leonin Relic-Warder
2x Selfless Spirit
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3-drops (6)
4x Benalish Marshal
2x Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4-drops (3)
3x Wilt-Leaf Liege
6-drop (4)
4x Spectral Procession
4x Path to Exile
3x Martyr of Sands
2x Kataki, War's Wage
1x Leonin Relic-Warder
1x Selfless Spirit
3x Rest in Peace
2x Stony Silence
3x Leyline of Sanctity
So after I've played Vintage tournament in our local store (proxy of course) with Mono W Hatebears and borrowed some ideas to implement to this deck.
Given that Modern is getting faster and faster (it's actually looking more and more similar to Legacy/Vintage now) I've realised my deck can't keep up with most meta decks. So I started to tune it down making it more of a Hatebear style deck.
I got rid of Soldier of the Pantheons, Legion's Landing and Isamaru. They are too small and not impactful enough nowadays. Instead I went for Judge's Familiars and Leonin Arbiters. I felt that the hate and slowing pace of the game these guys provide are more useful now for White Weenie. If I stop them doing unfair things my 3+ drop package will hurt much more. After all 3 1/1 Spirit Tokens don't do much when other decks can bounce my board and attack for 10 in the same turn.
Running Leonin Arbiters made me maindeck Path to Exiles. It really makes it bonkers, as well as Ghost Quarter though it's nonbo with Flagstones of Trokair - I may change it for simple Plains.
Thanks to maindecking Paths I've got more free slots in sideboard now and revamped it a little though I'll need more playtesting to improve it. A lot of possibilities here.
Match 1 vs Izzet Phoenix, won 2:1
Game 1 won - enemy flooded and couldn't find phoenixes, not much to talk about. Pathing TITI before he flipped was crucial as well.
Game 2 he was beating me with 2 Phoenixes since turn 2, way too fast for me.
Game 3 won - turn 1 Judge's Familiar into turn 2 little Thalia into turn 3 Dryad and Selfless Spirit slowed him hard enough. Felt amazing to do such thing while still giving beats. Leonin Relic-Warder caught stacked Pyromancer Ascension which was crucial as well.
Match 2 vs Boros Burn, won 2:0
Game 1 again opp flooded and after some time I had 2 spirits, Marshal and 2 WLL's.
Game 2 won - opening hand with Leyline of Sanctity and 2x Martyr of Sands, on turn 3 I had 39 health. After that I had plenty of time to build up. Leonin Arbiter did some job too as opponent sat with 2 mana whole game.
Match 3 vs Bant Toolbox, lost 0:2
Game 1 was even but I missplayed picking wrong Path target and he went off with his combo.
Game 2 I sat on 2 mana and he turn 3'd CoCo into Kira and some other creature that was relevant for him (forgot what it was). Couldn't even Path anything in response...
Overall he had amazing hand in both games and played 3 great CoCo's which was harsh.
After these I played another game vs 8Rack for funzies and lost 2:1. I lost mostly because of mistakes and I think it should've done much better if I didn't make my mistakes. Something to learn from.
Eiganjo saved little Thalia once.
Kytheon flipped once vs Phoenix and made Thalia indestructible.
Shefet Dunes gave enough dmg to finish 8Rack off.
Leonin Arbiter denied land from Path once but it didn't matter that much. Also denied land from GQ - didn't matter neither.
GQ on Flagstones gave me white mana to Path TITI. It was still a thing even while playing Arbiter.
Judge's Familiar saved little Thalia once from removal. He felt like little Selfless Spirit!
Overall I liked this variation more than the one before. The distruption package really paid off, Judge's Familiar overperformed, can't say the same about Leonin Arbiter. Me and Bant player both agreed that cat would be much better in deck with Aether Vial and he should be the target to change in this deck. Still he's doing work against every deck equally and will stick to him for now.
Next time I'll try 4x Arbiters and add 3x Phyrexian Revokers. He can name a lot of stuff nowadays, be it ramp creatures, planeswalkers, Devoted Druid, Aether Vial, Cranial Plating, Mox Opal, Lantern cards... Lot of utility but no hate vs graveyard decks...
Probably I'll go down with Spectral Procession. I dislike this idea but it's the only one I have as I feel they're least relevant in this deck now.
I really hope Containment Priest will be printed in Modern Horizons as it would be fantastic to have in current metagame.
Arbiter, while not amazing, is overall good hatebear that works around whole field. Other bears aren't that versatile. Turn 1 Familiar into turn 2 Arbiter screwes with most decks hard especially on play and makes cat resilient. Also Arbiter makes Path and GQ better.
Going vs tribal decks is hard as they most of the time grow even bigger than mine. Still there is a chance to fight them with 7 anthem creatures and I'd rather cut Spectral Procession rather than these. 3 mana is a lot and without pump all they really do is chump.
Maybe I should move big Thalias to sideboard though and actually play with Procession main. Something to consider.
Speaking of sideboard - I'm still working on it. I think Kataki isn't that good nowadays and adding 4th Leo-RW in side alongside 2 Stony Silence would be decent enough as he really overperformed during my games. Phyrexian Revoker hates on artifacts with activated abilities as well and playing him maindeck also does some work. I don't think Affinity is that scary and it's the only reason to play Kataki.
Leyline of Sanctity is here not only for Burn but mostly for hand distruption. I've already lost way too many times because I had some crucial hate card discarded and that was true mainly vs Lantern and 8Rack when my only out was Leo-RW catching Ensnaring Bridge. Also does some work vs Storm and Ad Nauseam.
Also though I have not enough GY hate with literally nothing maindeck and only 3 RiP in side. I think I should try to play some maindeckable GY hate but everything seems underwhelming with Remorseful Cleric and Jötun Grunt being only viable options for me.
Containment Priest would fix this hole so good WotC pls.
Maybe Grafdigger's Cage is an answer to my problematic matchups...
1x Eiganjo Castle
4x Flagstones of Trokair
4x Ghost Quarter
8x Plains
2x Shefet Dunes
3x Windbrisk Heights
1-drops (10)
4x Dryad Militant
3x Judge's Familiar
3x Kytheon, Hero of Akros
4x Leonin Arbiter
2x Leonin Relic-Warder
3x Phyrexian Revoker
3x Selfless Spirit
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3-drops (6)
4x Benalish Marshal
2x Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4-drops (3)
3x Wilt-Leaf Liege
Other (4)
4x Path to Exile
4x Martyr of Sands
2x Leonin Relic-Warder
1x Selfless Spirit
3x Rest in Peace
2x Stony Silence
3x Leyline of Sanctity
@magic_geek How would you build your mono W version right now?
I thought a little about this deck and decided to roll with old, more agressive and less hatebeary list but with some new additions:
1x Eiganjo Castle
4x Flagstones of Trokair
4x Ghost Quarter
8x Plains
2x Shefet Dunes
3x Windbrisk Heights
1-drops (13)
4x Dryad Militant
1x Isamaru, Hound of Konda
2x Judge's Familiar
3x Kytheon, Hero of Akros
3x Soldier of the Pantheon
2x Leonin Relic-Warder
3x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Selfless Spirit
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3-drops (6)
4x Benalish Marshal
2x Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4-drops (3)
3x Wilt-Leaf Liege
3x Martyr of Sands
4x Path to Exile
2x Kataki, War's Wage
1x Leonin Relic-Warder
2x Rest in Peace
1x Thalia, Heretic Cathat
2x Leyline of Sanctity
Match 1 Bye
Match 2 vs Dredgevine??? Some dredge'y brew, won 2:1
Game 1 he started with Stitcher's Supplier and got Gravecrawler and 2x Prized Amalgam from it... Not cool. But I started with t1 Dryad, t2 nothing, t3 Marshal, t4 WLL, t5 Spectral and I had my defences strong enough to stabilize the board. I would've won that but he topdecked Narcomoeba to chump the lethal and then topdecked Skaab Ruinator that just screwed me over. We both had defences up and running and it was flyers fight. My 3 2/2 Spirits vs his Narcomoeba and Skaab - Skaab did the work.
Game 2 I was on some real agression but he just recurred Darkblast over and over and just killed my 2/1's at the cost of not casting any creatures whatsoever. After some time big Thalia and 2 Spirits pushed through so I could play WLL from Windbrisk Heights for the win.
Game 3 was tough and even game board-wise. He had some bad luck because he threw all removal with Stitcher's Supplier and dredge. After some time I pushed through with superior numbers. Shefet Dunes buffed for perfect lethal.
Match 3 vs Bant Eldrazi, lost 0:2
Game 1 after mull to 6 I kept veeeery bad hand with 3 little Thalias and 1 big one. He just bashed me with Thought-Knot Seer and I had nothing to really defend with. My bad, should've mulled further to 5 especially that I was on draw.
Game 2 was better, Phyrexian Revoker naming Noble Hierarch slowed him down a bit. Still he got 3 Seers on board + Eldrazi Displacer blinking them over and over and preventing my Kytheon from flipping. After some time he played Worship, and my only way to win the game was to flip Kytheon. Drew all 3, every single one got Pathed. I threw away Leo-RW's into sideboard... A mistake that pretty much lost me this one.
Match 4 vs Mardu Pyromancer, won 2:0
Game 1 Phyrexian Revoker named Lilianna of the Veil and it was well worth it as he had one in hand. He traded 1 for 1 well but Spectral Procession was too much value for him. Also had Marshal and 2 Selfless Spirits and just stomped him with bigger creatures.
Game 2 was similar, he traded 1 for 1 early game generating tokens but t4 WLL into t5 WLL he just couldn't beat. Ensnaring Bridge was eaten by Leo-RW and I swung for lethal.
Match 5 vs my favourite Bant Toolbox, lost 0:2
Game 1 was favorable at the beginning, had 5 creatures turn 4 but couldn't find any pump for the rest of the game. He just had bigger creature. Swinging with Spell Queller for 5 every turn while having enough defence dealt with me.
Game 2 I lost because of my own mistake - I went greedy and smashed t4 WLL. Instead I should wait with Path because he had Basilisk Collar and he only needed to tutor Walking Ballista and wipe my board. Which he did.
Shefet Dunes won 2nd game in last 2 weeks. But had 2 in my opening hand once as my only W sources and dealt ~6 dmg to me. I don't really think it mattered during this matchup because I was already far behind in board during this game. I think I'll cut 1 for simple Plains because if it was some other deck it would probably be fatal.
Isamaru was relevant twice - vs Dredge player he survived -1/-1 removals and vs Eldrazi he actually traded because of Eiganjo.
Soldier of the Pantheon dealt free 6 dmg vs Toolbox player because he had nothing to block him with... He actually flashed Spell Queller to block him and had no creatures afterwards.
Judges Familiar didn't matter in any single game.
Kytheon didn't flip once but he was a threat opponents always wanted to kill in the first place.
Revoker was very cool, I wish I had him vs Toolbox player. Sucked that he didn't get buffed from WLL and he was just a 2/1 for the rest of one game while Dryad was a whooping 6/5.
Spectral Procession regularly overperformed, I don't know why I even though about cutting them.
Sometimes Familiars overperform, sometimes Leo RW overperform, sometimes they feel underwhelming, never something in the middle.
Games I won felt like it was because of my opponents doing mistakes or having bad luck.
Games I lost felt like it was because I did mistakes or they had great hands.
Not a single game felt like we both did our best and just the one that played better won.
I know I could play ~3 games better and could've won like 1 or 2 of them but oh well, I didn't.
Overall not the best performance from my side. But hey, I got foiled Flagstones!
It similar to Wilt-Leaf Liege and Benalish Marshal in the ability to pump the small creatures and tokens but it can come down faster (even for free) thanks to convoke though it would require to avoid attacking for a turn to convoke it.
Also, as far as 1-drops are concerned why isn't Dauntless Bodyguard in the conversation ?
It is yet another 2/1 for 1 but the ability is actually pretty good being able to protect a key creature for (non-exile) removal.
I've also seen Leonin Relic-Warder mainboarded here which seems really odd, why is this a maindeck card rather than a SB option ?
As a SB card it is probably worse than a non-creature option like Disenchant/Fragmentize against deck which actually play removal.
If you want to maindeck an answer to artifacts/enchantments why not go with Banishing Light or Conclave Tribunal (for the convoke) which can also remove creatures and PW's ? (it is not like the 2/2 body is that good anyway).
Also, in a GW version of the deck Qasali Pridemage and Knight of Autumn are much better options for this role anyway.
Martyr of Sands is a card that I don't really understand as a SB option here, if it is for Burn than it seems too hit & miss to me as you pretty much need to have it in your opener to get value out of it and it is a horrible topdeck (especially in a deck without Squadron Hawk to support it like in the "Martyr-Proc" deck).
Kor Firewalker, Auriok Champion or even Lone Missionary would be better options to fight Burn decks imho.
1x Eiganjo Castle
4x Flagstones of Trokair
4x Ghost Quarter
8x Plains
2x Shefet Dunes
3x Windbrisk Heights
1-drops (13)
4x Dryad Militant
1x Isamaru, Hound of Konda
3x Kytheon, Hero of Akros
1x Legion's Landing
4x Soldier of the Pantheon
2x Leonin Relic-Warder
3x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Selfless Spirit
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3-drops (6)
4x Benalish Marshal
2x Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4-drops (3)
3x Wilt-Leaf Liege
6-drops (4)
4x Spectral Procession
3x Martyr of Sands
4x Path to Exile
1x Kataki, War's Wage
2x Leonin Relic-Warder
2x Rest in Peace
1x Thalia, Heretic Cathat
2x Leyline of Sanctity
Match 1 vs Bant Toolbox, won 2:0
Game 1 named Birds of Paradise with Phyrexian Revoker denying him the much needed ramp. Because of that he couldn't keep up with me and I just stomped him with superior forces.
Game 2 was pretty much the same - Revoker on his mana dork slowing him down and smashing him good. He did have some defences up and running but I went wider. 2x Soldier of the Pantheon on board vs his 2 mana dorks and Spell Queller dealt a lot of dmg in this game. Kytheon flipped but didn't matter that much.
Match 2 vs Ad Nauseam, won 2:1
Game 1 I wasn't fast and distruptive enough to stop him from going off. Little Thalia slowed him for 1 turn but that wasn't enough.
Game 2 Revoker named Pentad Prism and screwed his mana to combo off - he lacked 2nd to cast Ad Nauseam.
Game 3 got Revoker from Windbrisk Heights naming his Lotus Bloom just in time for him to combo off next turn. Again Shefet Dunes buffed the team for lethal but I still think I had this game already.
Match 3 vs 8Rack, won 2:0
Game 1 was a race but I managed to win this. Selfless Spirit prevented him from wiping my board with Bontu's Last Reckoning
Game 2 mulled to 6, kept 4 lands, Soldier and WLL, he played turn 1 Blackmail, gave him 3 lands, my turn 1 drew land, played Soldier, he then turn 2 Thoughtsiezed me and was forced to discard WLL. After that I top decked little Thalia and he conceded
Phyrexian Revoker was HUGE. Distrupting their mana fixing was crucial in first 2 matches. Without him I'd definately lose at least 3 games. Obviously he isn't doing much vs Drakes or Dredge but against rest of the field (and my local meta) he's doing wonders.
Soldier of the Pantheon isn't looking good right now. His protection mattered against one deck but overall it's very narrow and most of the time he's just a Savannah Lions.
Haven't seen Legion's Landing for a long time in this deck and I don't think it's something I want to see in my hand.
I may try Student of Warfare next time. Maybe will come back to Judge's Familiar as well.
I like the basedeck revokers.
Yeah.
That works.
Thought more about Revokers.
I think I should be playing them too.
The thoughtseize story is the dream.
Really happy to see it kick in for you.
Student of Warfare is much better topdeck than Soldier of the Pantheon in mid-late game. Also he's the only real mana sink. Either oponent deals with him early enough - spending removal on 1 mana 1/1 - or he grows to huge unstoppable threat. These kind of games may and will definately happen more often or not. SotP is always just a 2/1 with mediocre ability.
Obviously I didn't test Knight but I see the potential and am willing to test this guy anyways. Him or Figure of Destiny.
Maybe will go with 2x Judge's Familiar in place of Legion's Landing and 1 SotP...
I also have problem with sideboard. In 2 weeks we have a bigger modern tournament and I'm willing to play this deck. I'm pretty sure that there will be top meta decks and my sideboard isn't properly build for this environment.
For now I'm sure on:
4x Path to Exile - for nasty creature decks;
3x Rest in Peace - GY hate
2x Leonin Relic-Warder - for Tron, Vial, prison, Hardened Scales
6 slots I'm unsure about.
Martyr of Sands - vs burn, Storm, Scapeshift, much bigger counter vs "deal 20 dmg ASAP" decks.
Leyline of Sanctity - vs burn, Storm, Scapeshift, discard, some parts of Lantern, more flexible and all rounded than Martyr but it's not as explosive and Repeal is a thing
Ethersworn Canonist or Eidolon of Rhetoric - vs Phoenix, Storm, other combo/draw-a-lot decks, canonist is faster but more vunerable to removal, Eidolon is more expensive but survives Bolt and Push (mostly)
Damping Sphere vs Phoenix, Tron, Storm
Kataki, War's Wage - mostly vs affinity and prison decks but seems too narrow and weak
Stony Silence - strong but has no legs,
I think 2x Damping Sphere, 2x Canonist/Eidolon and 2x Kataki/Stony is the way to go. Makes me vunerable to burn matchups though... Thoughts?
Also thinking about Worship as a card of choice vs combo (and control if I get Kytheon) decks because I'm so heavy creature/low spell deck.
2 Gideon Blackblade
1 Gideon of the Trials
4 Karn, the Great Creator
2 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
4 Kytheon, Hero of Akros
4 Leonin Arbiter
2 Rhys the Redeemed
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Heart of Kiran
4 Mox Amber
2 Smuggler's Copter
2 Eiganjo Castle
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Horizon Canopy
2 Mobilized District
8 Plains
2 Untaidake, the Cloud Keeper
2 Damping Sphere
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Walking Ballista
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Liquimetal Coating
1 Pithing Needle
2 Torpor Orb
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Witchbane Orb
Sorry for the lack of content, but I was honestly thinking the same thing. Lol
Was looking to make a modern deck with mox... this looks great
Turn 3 Dampening Sphere seems berserk against Tron.
That would take some time to get used to playing, and fighting.
Ghost quarter and Little T & Big Thalia would also be in play against Tron.
The Karn Angle is huge because it wipes out the entire sideboard.
No sideboard at all, because it is eaten by Karn and his snazzy tricky.
Only Urza's Ruinous Blast.
And way cool that it is, losing an entire sideboard is gunna be hard to justify as they discard or duress or counter Karn.
I spoze it is sorta a recovery button on Ugin, but, seems hopeful.
.
When it goes off, it is going to be a thing of beauty. And good luck to it.
This deck will regularly have games where the legend rule kicks it in the nuts.
Say you draw 2 Castles so you cant cast your Three copies of Little Thalia
Them making this more likely by thoughtseizing your other good play is gunna be embarrassing.
I have shaved down all of those excess legends because they just are not good enough.
By themselves anyway.
14 white sources seems probably enough, but some of those planeswalkers are double white.
14 initial white and 4 x Mox Amber is also gunna be rough sometimes.
Getting a plains from a GQ sacrifice is desperation pain.
Those good old double and triple Legend not providing the second white on a planeswalker situations.
Make my eyes wince.
Leonin Arbiter is no longer in the theme, except that they interact quite well with Ghost Quarter and Path.
Thing is, Leo just isn't strong enough, I feel.
If you draw 2 of them, the effect is not double in any meaningful way. Often it does no more than the first. And the first may not have done anything yet.
And when exactly does this new thing actually win?
The new kid is trying to do interference, quickly.
And then strangle a win using walkers and lil' white Legends.
I understand Isamaru & Kytheon.
Kytheon wants to go wide, with bro's not with toys, like Copter and Heart.
Giving little Thalia a job once she can't attack any more is cute, with the copter.
Rhys the Redeemed - Is Not Good Enough
He is not being played because he is expected to win the game with his ability.
He is there as fuel mostly. For the Mox and Mobilize distict. But by himself he really is not good enough.
It is very cute in the way Karn has eaten the sideboard. All normal decks get to be improved between games 1 & 2/3. Not that one.
Some doofuses end up running across the ground, and hitting them, Is that the plan?
When they hit the wrath button, there will be 10 planeswalkers, so we don't need to worry?
And the vehicles will survive too. I spoze.
Gideon plus the Heart of Kirin the turn after a wrath seems rather insulting.
I like mine more, I'm like that.
It seems a very different approach. Fair enough I spoze, but a lot less resilient, or redundant
I still like mine, and I would be interested to know which would win. Especially after sideboarding.
Gaddock turns off Karn, And sure Path and so on. But I get Path to in games 2 & 3 and you need them more.
I often have a significant Air wing. Often with 3 power, which should kill this deck.
My land is better. I am playing Windbrisk Heights, and Dryad and more colour and stuff. Rant rant rant.
And I get to play ridiculous spells in the sideboard, because I get one.
The Cutesy legends are about stopping them. Interfering and annoying and taxing and slowing.
Mine is about killing, You.