This is a deck I've been working on for a while as the R/U/G color combination seems interesting to explore.
The deck is reminicent of the old Standard deck with some improvements and I've wanted to see if a viable Dragons is possible in Modern.
It is basically a midrange-goodstuff deck with some dragons synergy/flavor.
Card Choices:
#Draconic Roar - serves as extra removal here, also the extra damage adds up with Thuderbreak's ability to make any resolved dragon a really fast clock.
#Mana Leak + Rune Snag - I wanted general purpose counters here and Remand didnt' seem good enough for a deck looking to go long and not tempo-out the opponent, Logic Knot (or Silumgar's Scorn) seemed too color intensive and Condescend too slow.
#Tireless Tracker + Courser of Kruphix - provide card advantage and work great together, another 3-drop I considered is Savage Knuckleblade
but Courser is really good against aggro as a blocker and also helps hit lands drops and gain life so I hesitate to replace it.
#Sarkhan Unbroken - one of the finishers of the deck (together with the dragons), can protect itself by making a token or just draw cards.
This deck can even make his Ult' be of use with 7x possible targets.
The deck has been pretty reasonable so far in online testing especially if it manages to prolong the game.
In game 1 fast aggro/combo decks can be a problem especially with a slow draw as the deck is built to perform best against midrange decks.
#I found myself often flooded with Tireless Tracker and though it is a very good creature I decided to trimm it down to 2x copies and test 2x Savage Knuckleblade instead.
#Without any sweepers (Pyroclasm/Anger of the Gods) in the deck i had some trouble against decks that flood the board with small creature so I decided to add Izzet Staticaster to the SB over Glen Elendra Archmage which I didn't really need with the existing countemagic in the deck.
I've also moved a copy of Mana Leak to the SB (by trimming 1x Grim Lavamancer) and upped the count of Draconic Roar to 3x.
I mean I like it. Wish it had another source of CA in here somewhere though. Is there an instant you can see putting in over somthing else perhaps?
What do you board in the god against? Feels like a waste since it looks only goid against midrange, which you alreafy beat.
What kind of instant do you have in mind ?
Couple of cards I've tested and found underwhelming in the deck were Electrolyze and Blossoming Defense.
Keranos is intended as a control-breaker card as those decks can keep up with the threats in the deck and 1-for-1 it unless I can cast some timely counterspells and sweepers can be an issue as well though the hasty creatures and PW's can help recovering from those.
Thinking either Ancestral Vision or something like Thirst for knowledge. Your deck looks to land a dude or 2 then plays as a control deck. So I would think either would work.
Ancestral is good but I'm not sure I'd want it over Serum Visions in this deck as I value the card selection over raw card draw
(which Tireless Tracker provides).
Playing both would require cutting down on threats or answers which I'm unsure about.
Thirst is probably not the most suitable card for the deck without any artifacts to pitch to it as drawing 3 and discarding 2 doesn't seem much better than Supreme Will which can dig 4-cards deep or counter a spell as an overcosted Mana Leak.
For instant speed card draw I could also use something like Cerebral Vortex which could be a burn spell as well (pretty much an instant version of Sign in Blood) but it doesn't seem to fit the pattern of the deck that much as I'd rather not leave up more than 2-mana (for the cheap counters) on the opponent's turn unless I'm playing against combo/control.
It is of note that the card can be really good against Storm dealing them a lot of damage when they attempt to go off.
^^
I like the changes so far, as much as I've tried to make Rune Snag work, Remand is just better most of the time. Silumgar's Scorn is pretty rough on the mana but it wins games later on as a counterspell so I'll keep it for now.
The main problems with the deck so far are the painful manabase (I play more basics than usual to mitigate that) and being pretty slow to get going (the curve is rather high) if I don't start with Birds (or if it gets removed immediately).
Also, in some games I draw the wrong half of the deck like all counters against aggro or all removal against control/combo which is a bit frustrating.
Sarkhan Unbroken has been really good so far in the games that I've managed to resolve it, it creates so much card advantage and slowly builds a dragon army which isn't easy to get through.
Scavenging Ooze has been consistently good for me either disrupting graveards or gaining life.
I'm still unsure about Knuckleblade as I didn't get to cast it very much but it is my best blocker and a good option to get in surprise damage (and kill PW's) with its haste ability.
I've tried maindecking Lavamancer but have found it to be ok but too match-up dependant so I moved it to the SB.
I thought about Mandrills but Knuckleblade seems better in this slot, not having trample is rarely an issue as I have removal to clear away small creatures.
Evolution is a build-around card and would require a complete retooling of the deck so it is probably not the right card here.
Bloodbraid is obviously one of the best 4-drops in Temur but I've already dedicated my 4-drop slt to Thunderbreak and the dragon theme so there is probably no room for another 4-drop in the deck (especially with the 5-drops I have as well).
The "Temur Delirium" shell is a rather different deck than mine (a midrange deck) as a tempo-build so it doesn't really fit with expensive threats like the Dragons and Sarkhan and fits better for cheap aggro beaters like: Nacatl/Narnam, Goyf.
I'd also not want to lose the value that Tracker + Courser provide to the deck.
I want to try out Glorybringer over Stormbreath to see if the extra removal option can be useful over the pro-white.
This is an interesting take on the deck, albeit very different from mine.
It reminds of the last year's Standard deck which was Grixis-colored as this deck should probably also be by dropping green.
Your land count at 22x is probably too low to consistently ramp with Growth Spiral (thus making it a worse Opt) and playing discard spells over Birds can also be good in a midrange deck that curves up to 4-mana (unlike by build which absolutely needs them with the higher curve) besides Niv which is ridiculously hard to cast and I wouldn't play it in Modern.
I dislike SSG in midrange decks as well and would rather play interaction and some more threats.
Domri is a decent PW, though not sure if it should take up maindeck slots in my version rather than come in from the SB.
Sarkhan is a 3-mana ramp card which seems pretty slow, I guess that it can be good in slow matchups where it can threaten to rummage until it Ult's but besides that it seems a bit underpowered.
What I like about the 5-mana version is the ability to take over games by either grinding out card-advantage with the draw ability or produce 4/4 flying threats/blockers.
In my opinion guys, we don't need green, we don't need to ramp, we need to destroy every single thing they play or would like to play in the early, and crush the rest in the mid/late.
Grixis is a solid direction to go because of Nicol Bolas but this thread is about a Temur version which rather different in focus and plays closer to a (Big) midrange deck rather than a control deck which the Grixis version does.
Also, I'm not really a fan fo small Sarkhan as it doesn't interact and doesn't protect itself making it a glorified rummaging engine that ramps dragons.
The new The Royal Scions seems much better to me.
Regarding the Temur version, it can probably be significantly upgraded with Wrenn and Six to smooth out mana issues, though it can be said about most decks which are green and red. Oko, Thief of Crowns seems like a potentially good option for the deck as well.
Agreed on wren being a solid addion. It's a shame it's a bit pricy
As for small srkan I think it depends what your ramping to. If your trying to hit a 4 or 5 drop then he's not worth in, if your running any 6drop dragons then it's a different story. As a turn 4 niv or kolagrim are pretty game ending plays unless they they have an answer right then.
If your going for wren and smaller dragons then I agree that 5 CMC sarkant is the way to go.
It's just a shame scions doing give haste in there -
There may be a build that goes all in on the ramp and works with 7 mana drakuseth. As if want a game ending dragon he's the man.
Well guys, little Sarkhan allow you to put your 4/4 dragon on the battlefield and to have the mana untapped in the 4th - 5th turn to protect Sarkhan and the dragon. other then this Sarkhan cycles you extra-lands and while the oppo is busy deleting your menaces, he get the 7 PP to ulti. I understand that in a Temur point of view he is much less impactful, but guys, try my list just out of curiosity.
I'm sorry if I was off-topic with my grixis things, i didn't mean to.
The deck is reminicent of the old Standard deck with some improvements and I've wanted to see if a viable Dragons is possible in Modern.
It is basically a midrange-goodstuff deck with some dragons synergy/flavor.
Here is the deck:
4x Birds of Paradise
2x Scavenging Ooze
2x Courser of Kruphix
4x Tireless Tracker
4x Thunderbreak Regent
3x Stormbreath Dragon
Planeswalker (2)
2x Sarkhan Unbroken
Instant (13)
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Draconic Roar
3x Mana Leak
4x Rune Snag
4x Serum Visions
Land (22)
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Misty Rainforest
2x Stomping Ground
2x Steam Vents
2x Breeding Pool
2x Raging Ravine
2x Forest
2x Island
2x Mountain
2x Ancient Grudge
2x Grim Lavamancer
2x Destructive Revelry
2x Negate
2x Kitchen Finks
1x Beast Within
2x Relic of Progenitus
1x Glen Elendra Archmage
1x Keranos, God of Storms
Card Choices:
#Draconic Roar - serves as extra removal here, also the extra damage adds up with Thuderbreak's ability to make any resolved dragon a really fast clock.
#Mana Leak + Rune Snag - I wanted general purpose counters here and Remand didnt' seem good enough for a deck looking to go long and not tempo-out the opponent, Logic Knot (or Silumgar's Scorn) seemed too color intensive and Condescend too slow.
#Tireless Tracker + Courser of Kruphix - provide card advantage and work great together, another 3-drop I considered is Savage Knuckleblade
but Courser is really good against aggro as a blocker and also helps hit lands drops and gain life so I hesitate to replace it.
#Sarkhan Unbroken - one of the finishers of the deck (together with the dragons), can protect itself by making a token or just draw cards.
This deck can even make his Ult' be of use with 7x possible targets.
The Sideboard has lots of options like: Izzet Staticaster, Abrade, Ceremonious Rejection and I'm not sure if this is the best configuration.
In game 1 fast aggro/combo decks can be a problem especially with a slow draw as the deck is built to perform best against midrange decks.
#I found myself often flooded with Tireless Tracker and though it is a very good creature I decided to trimm it down to 2x copies and test 2x Savage Knuckleblade instead.
#Without any sweepers (Pyroclasm/Anger of the Gods) in the deck i had some trouble against decks that flood the board with small creature so I decided to add Izzet Staticaster to the SB over Glen Elendra Archmage which I didn't really need with the existing countemagic in the deck.
I've also moved a copy of Mana Leak to the SB (by trimming 1x Grim Lavamancer) and upped the count of Draconic Roar to 3x.
Here is the updated list:
4x Birds of Paradise
2x Scavenging Ooze
2x Courser of Kruphix
2x Tireless Tracker
2x Savage Knuckleblade
4x Thunderbreak Regent
3x Stormbreath Dragon
Planeswalker (2)
2x Sarkhan Unbroken
Instant (13)
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Draconic Roar
2x Mana Leak
4x Rune Snag
4x Serum Visions
Land (22)
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Misty Rainforest
2x Stomping Ground
2x Steam Vents
2x Breeding Pool
2x Raging Ravine
2x Forest
2x Island
2x Mountain
2x Ancient Grudge
2x Destructive Revelry
2x Negate
1x Mana Leak
2x Kitchen Finks
1x Beast Within
2x Relic of Progenitus
1x Grim Lavamancer
1x Izzet Staticaster
1x Keranos, God of Storms
What do you board in the god against? Feels like a waste since it looks only goid against midrange, which you alreafy beat.
Couple of cards I've tested and found underwhelming in the deck were Electrolyze and Blossoming Defense.
Keranos is intended as a control-breaker card as those decks can keep up with the threats in the deck and 1-for-1 it unless I can cast some timely counterspells and sweepers can be an issue as well though the hasty creatures and PW's can help recovering from those.
(which Tireless Tracker provides).
Playing both would require cutting down on threats or answers which I'm unsure about.
Thirst is probably not the most suitable card for the deck without any artifacts to pitch to it as drawing 3 and discarding 2 doesn't seem much better than Supreme Will which can dig 4-cards deep or counter a spell as an overcosted Mana Leak.
For instant speed card draw I could also use something like Cerebral Vortex which could be a burn spell as well (pretty much an instant version of Sign in Blood) but it doesn't seem to fit the pattern of the deck that much as I'd rather not leave up more than 2-mana (for the cheap counters) on the opponent's turn unless I'm playing against combo/control.
It is of note that the card can be really good against Storm dealing them a lot of damage when they attempt to go off.
I like the changes so far, as much as I've tried to make Rune Snag work, Remand is just better most of the time.
Silumgar's Scorn is pretty rough on the mana but it wins games later on as a counterspell so I'll keep it for now.
The main problems with the deck so far are the painful manabase (I play more basics than usual to mitigate that) and being pretty slow to get going (the curve is rather high) if I don't start with Birds (or if it gets removed immediately).
Also, in some games I draw the wrong half of the deck like all counters against aggro or all removal against control/combo which is a bit frustrating.
Sarkhan Unbroken has been really good so far in the games that I've managed to resolve it, it creates so much card advantage and slowly builds a dragon army which isn't easy to get through.
I'm still unsure about Knuckleblade as I didn't get to cast it very much but it is my best blocker and a good option to get in surprise damage (and kill PW's) with its haste ability.
I've tried maindecking Lavamancer but have found it to be ok but too match-up dependant so I moved it to the SB.
I thought about Mandrills but Knuckleblade seems better in this slot, not having trample is rarely an issue as I have removal to clear away small creatures.
Evolution is a build-around card and would require a complete retooling of the deck so it is probably not the right card here.
Bloodbraid is obviously one of the best 4-drops in Temur but I've already dedicated my 4-drop slt to Thunderbreak and the dragon theme so there is probably no room for another 4-drop in the deck (especially with the 5-drops I have as well).
The "Temur Delirium" shell is a rather different deck than mine (a midrange deck) as a tempo-build so it doesn't really fit with expensive threats like the Dragons and Sarkhan and fits better for cheap aggro beaters like: Nacatl/Narnam, Goyf.
I'd also not want to lose the value that Tracker + Courser provide to the deck.
I want to try out Glorybringer over Stormbreath to see if the extra removal option can be useful over the pro-white.
growth spiral, seems like a natural fit for the deck, (possibly over some knuckle blades and a courser?)
Nicol Bolas, the Ravager as a 1-2 off, seems like the first decent 4 drop dragon since thunderbreak regent
Sarkhan, Fireblood seems like a solid engine for the deck as well as ramp
my current outline is this
1x Breeding Pool
3x City of Brass
2x Forest
1x Haven of the Spirit Dragon
1x Island
2x Misty Rainforest
2x Mountain
2x Raging Ravine
2x Steam Vents
2x Stomping Ground
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Birds of Paradise
2x Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
1x Niv-Mizzet, Parun
3x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Thunderbreak Regent
Instant (14)
2x Draconic Roar
4x Growth Spiral
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Remand
4x Serum Visions
Planeswalker (4)
4x Sarkhan, Fireblood
2x Domri, Anarch of Bolas
the deck currently has 3 flexy slots that i'm still undecided on
as is the decks seems pretty consistent as turn 1 and 2 interaction and/or ramp, and turn 3 dragon.
niv adds a solid alt wincon
what stuff have i missed and is there anything that will just not function or work well?
the other card i've considering is Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner and running 3 mb mandrills as she also acts as ramp and card draw
Competitive Decks
Devotion to the Lash B ----
Monkey Conservation WUGR ---- Dragon WorshipR
It reminds of the last year's Standard deck which was Grixis-colored as this deck should probably also be by dropping green.
Your land count at 22x is probably too low to consistently ramp with Growth Spiral (thus making it a worse Opt) and playing discard spells over Birds can also be good in a midrange deck that curves up to 4-mana (unlike by build which absolutely needs them with the higher curve) besides Niv which is ridiculously hard to cast and I wouldn't play it in Modern.
I dislike SSG in midrange decks as well and would rather play interaction and some more threats.
Domri is a decent PW, though not sure if it should take up maindeck slots in my version rather than come in from the SB.
Sarkhan is a 3-mana ramp card which seems pretty slow, I guess that it can be good in slow matchups where it can threaten to rummage until it Ult's but besides that it seems a bit underpowered.
What I like about the 5-mana version is the ability to take over games by either grinding out card-advantage with the draw ability or produce 4/4 flying threats/blockers.
That's my idea of dragons in modern:
1 Blood Crypt
2 Haven of the Spirit Dragon
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
3 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Spirebluff Canal
2 Darkslick Shores
2 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Watery Grave
1 Fiery Islet
Creature (12)
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
3 Thunderbreak Regent
2 Stormbreath Dragon
Spells (20)
2 Lightning Bolt
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
1 Draconic Roar
1 Izzet Charm
4 Silumgar's Scorn
1 Electrolyze
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Fatal Push
1 Dreadbore
4 Sarkhan, Fireblood
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Plague Engineer
2 Ashiok, Dream Render
2 Stubborn Denial
1 Hellkite Tyrant
1 Crux of Fate
1 Dragonlord Kolaghan
1 Dragonlord Silumgar
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Izzet Staticaster
Otherwise, if you don't wanna play TS of IoK:
1 Blood Crypt
2 Haven of the Spirit Dragon
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
3 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Spirebluff Canal
3 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Watery Grave
1 Fiery Islet
Creature (12)
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
3 Thunderbreak Regent
2 Stormbreath Dragon
Spells (20)
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Stubborn Denial
1 Electrolyze
1 Draconic Roar
1 Izzet Charm
4 Silumgar's Scorn
1 Electrolyze
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Fatal Push
1 Dreadbore
4 Sarkhan, Fireblood
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Plague Engineer
2 Ashiok, Dream Render
2 Collective Brutality
1 Hellkite Tyrant
1 Crux of Fate
1 Dragonlord Kolaghan
1 Dragonlord Silumgar
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Izzet Staticaster
Also, I'm not really a fan fo small Sarkhan as it doesn't interact and doesn't protect itself making it a glorified rummaging engine that ramps dragons.
The new The Royal Scions seems much better to me.
Regarding the Temur version, it can probably be significantly upgraded with Wrenn and Six to smooth out mana issues, though it can be said about most decks which are green and red.
Oko, Thief of Crowns seems like a potentially good option for the deck as well.
As for small srkan I think it depends what your ramping to. If your trying to hit a 4 or 5 drop then he's not worth in, if your running any 6drop dragons then it's a different story. As a turn 4 niv or kolagrim are pretty game ending plays unless they they have an answer right then.
If your going for wren and smaller dragons then I agree that 5 CMC sarkant is the way to go.
It's just a shame scions doing give haste in there -
There may be a build that goes all in on the ramp and works with 7 mana drakuseth. As if want a game ending dragon he's the man.
Competitive Decks
Devotion to the Lash B ----
Monkey Conservation WUGR ---- Dragon WorshipR
I'm sorry if I was off-topic with my grixis things, i didn't mean to.