I went 3-1 on Monday, with the same list as in post #23.
R1, 2-1 vs. Mardu Tokens/Reveler: Pretty sure this guy was running a list that has 5-0'ed on MTGO several times this year, but it didn't seem that great of a deck to me. I put him on no Moons in his build after seeing him fetch only duals, but the online list I'm thinking of runs one Moon main and two more in the side. Maybe he doesn't have them or maybe just didn't draw them, but I did not try to play around the card in this match. Anyway, I started on the draw, and he ran me over in G1 as I flooded and failed to draw a sweeper. But in G2 and G3 an early Bitterblossom proved to be an overwhelming advantage. Faerie Rogues were instrumental in preventing me from dying to Stormbreath Dragon in both games. That card is otherwise extremely difficult for a BW deck to beat, as only Lili or sweepers will get rid of it, and it can't be chumped by Spirits.
R2, 2-0 vs. UB Midrange/Control: Another player with a UB Goodstuff deck featuring some Faeries, cantrips, counters, and Delve threats. I won the roll. A T2 BB won me another game in G1 of this match, while in G2, Shizo allowed me to connect through flashed-in Spellstutter Sprite chumps. Liliana of the Veil also controlled his hand and board well for a quick victory.
R3, 1-2 vs. Abzan: Won the roll but lost G1 to a lot of self-damage from Caves of Koilos, Thoughtseize, and BB, and more damage from two huge Goyfs for which I had no removal. In G2 I won off of Ally tokens plus Gideon beats, although I held off on attacking with Gideon after he began clearly telegraphing an in-hand Path to Exile. Finally in G3 I fell to his T2 LotV powered out by a Hierarch, which was backed up by many Spirit tokens and a Pithing Needle which neutered my Liliana, the Last Hope. Heart of Kiran is pretty bad against BGx decks, but probably not as bad as hand disruption is. I always side out all of my targeted hand disruption in these BGx matches.
R4, 2-0 vs. Abzan: Won the roll and had an easy G1 while my opponent flooded hard. In G2 he had a bad keep and whiffed on land draws. Don't have much in the way of notes for this match, and it was over quickly.
Thoughts:Bitterblossom has been an absolute house for me. It is quite slow and damaging to the life total, but like the walkers it is a difficult-to-remove permanent that fits the curve and the overall deck idea perfectly. However I have never wanted to play a second one out, so I'm reluctant to add a third to the 75.
Conversely, Heart of Kiran is only good with a walker in play, so sometimes it's a do-nothing, similar to the drawback of Equipment in a deck. It is also the only card in the 75 that Fatal Push or Terminate are good against. So maybe in a meta with a heavy BGx or Grixis presence it should be replaced by something else. On the other hand, 2-drop threats are tough to come by in BW decks, especially 2-drops that apply a fast clock. And I have also found, through lots of BW midrange play over the past couple years, that a deck like this needs a certain minimum threat density or it can flounder in the mid- to late-game. So I will continue running a single copy for now. Maybe a second Night's Whisper could replace it as a way to dig for threats--but that is also a plan that will lead to a slower game against Affinity or Tron, where a flying 4/4 is just what the doctor ordered.
I have now played this deck to a 35-15-1 record across all versions. Discounting my first tournament attempt, which led to the most dramatic changes so far, I'm 33-11-1. That is not too shabby for most players, and it's excellent for me, even if it's only at the FNM level. Of the decks I've faced, the only truly unfavorable matchup has been against Valakut decks, which has been true of every midrange deck I've ever played. It's likely that Gideon of the Trials, Fulminator Mage, hand disruption, and Surgical Extraction could be used more effectively in this match than I've done so far, though. For instance, it's probably right to save a Thoughtseize in the opening hand for T4-5 to try to pick off a Titan or Scapeshift, rather than trying to curve out and only nabbing an easily-replaced Explore, as I've often done in the past. Even Inquisition might be better played late in some cases; if they Summoner's Pact in response to an Inquisition, an in-hand Thoughtseize could take the Titan or Woodfall Primus they fetch up.
The sideboard is kind of messy, but there are no metagame in the LGS - today was 13 different decks and 2 merfolk...
Game 1 - Lantern Control, 2-0
This is a tough match up because of maindeck Ensnaring Bridge, but luckily he had bad draws in both games.
Game 2 - Grixis Death Shadow, 1-2
First match was as it sbould be - I had to much removal for him, and he didn't have a change. In second match I made a stupid mistake and lost. In game 3 I kept a risky hand - I could have played turn 2 Bitterblossom, but he had a Thoughtseize. I do feel like the deck is heavily favored against GDS.
Game 3 - Bant Eldrazi, 0-2
Just before driving to the LGS, I removed 1 Wrath of God from the deck - and I really needed some more sweepers and more Path to Exile. I lost both games, because I didn't have enough removal.
I will make some changes to the deck - I do need more Path to Exiles, so next Friday I will do this:
-1 Fatal Push
+1 Path to Exile
-1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
+1 Wrath of God
-1 Liliana, the Last Hope (maybe move her to the sideboard)
+1 Night's Whisper
4-1 tonight, same list but -1 Caves of Koilos for +1 Courtyard. Thinking maybe the Caves and the Chapel could both go for a couple more off-color fetches to improve the odds against Blood Moon and strengthen Fatal Push. Like maybe one Polluted Delta and one Flooded Strand. Doing it that way would keep me at my current numbers for T1 and T3 mana availability.
R1, 0-2 vs. 8-Rack: I mulled to 6 on the draw in G1 but never landed anything relevant; in G2 he had 2x The Rack plus a Shrieking Affliction by T4 after taking my opening Disenchant. I died real fast, missing SB Ratchet Bombs, which I have played a lot in BW decks. But they're terrible in the walkers build.
R2, 2-0 vs. Mono-U Umbral Mantle/Polymorph Combo: I was on the draw. This guy's deck looked to land Umbral Mantle after playing out an early Training Grounds. Then it can make an arbitrarily large Blinkmoth Nexus or do some other stuff with Inkmoth Nexus and Faerie Conclave. He also played a Polymorph (presumably for Emrakul) line as a back-up win con I guess? But I happened to draw all the Pushes and Paths and Ghost Quarters, and killed his guy in response to the equip cost every time he tried to set up the combo. Disruption was great, but this was luck mostly. I wasn't sure what he was up to and I drew like a god, just figured jank like that had to be some kind of combo I didn't want to allow to go off. I had two very easy games as I controlled his board at will.
R3, 2-0 vs. Grixis Death's Shadow: Lost the roll again. In G2 I had to slow roll around two Stubborn Denial but Lingering Souls managed to chump just long enough for me to start landing Lilis and Gids. Once I had a couple of walkers out he was not able to regain any advantage. In G2 I cleaned him up easily but forgot to take notes and don't recall what happened. GDS feels like an easy match to me; I really like Rest in Peace in this match.
R4, 2-1 vs. Boros Burn: Won the roll for the first time tonight. But then I kept a terrible hand in the dark with four lands, a Thoughtseize, a Bitterblossom, and a Wrath. I managed to put up a fight but he finished me off with a Shrine of Burning Rage. In G2, a pair of Gideons were too much for him, allowing me to win at -2 life. In G3 he windmill slammed an Ensnaring Bridge on T3... but I already had a Disenchant in hand, because of Shrine in G1. So I shrugged, developed my board state with Gideons for a couple turns, and then wiped out his Bridge and killed him quickly. TBH I would bring in Disenchant in this match anyway for Eidolon of the Great Revel because I have so much to side out; I also side in Fulminator, because taking Burn off W is very good and often surprisingly easy.
R5, 2-1 vs. RG Titanshift: Definitely got lucky in this match. I kept a BB in my opener in this match too, again going deep on a terrible card for the pairing I ended up facing. I was on the draw, and got Primetime'd fast in G1. In G2 my opponent, who was new to the deck, missed a Summoner's Pact trigger and I called him on it. In G3 I was lucky to be at 18 when he cast Scapeshift with seven lands in play, while I had a Ghost Quarter live; if you blow up one of the six Mountains in response to the group ETB trigger (do NOT hit the Valakut!) then only the land hit by GQ will trigger the Valakut. The other five Mountains will not. (More here.) I also ran him out of Mountains by nerfing Valakut with Gideon to stall, and also Pathing a Titan. Careful T4-5 use of Thoughtseize, IoK, and Brutality were very important in preventing a loss, but I also got very lucky in my opponent's unfamiliarity with his own deck. He's not likely to make the same mistakes again, I'd wager. Titanshift and Valakut decks in general are high among this deck's very hardest matches, in my experience. Leyline would help a lot, but I feel like I'd be losing points against the field by cutting anything from the side. The is a hope-to-dodge for me.
Sorry, had not posted in a while. Have not been able to goto some events in about a week.
Was at one last night and my results was a little disappointing just because I seen Eldrazi Tron 3 times.
R1: 2-0 vs. Affinity
R2: 0-2 vs. Eldrazi Tron
R3: 1-2 vs. Eldrazi Tron
R4: 2-1 vs. Mono Green Stompy
R5: 0-2 vs. Eldrazi Tron
R6: 2-1 vs. Mono White Death and Taxes agro
After everything was done I knew one of the Eldrazi Tron players we we played a few more games for fun, and I lost 2-0 Eldrazi Tron again in a fun game.
It is kind of frustrating because I know this deck is good. But is I have no game vs Eldrazi Tron then.... Man, I don't know what I'm going to play in GP Oklahoma in a few weeks.
I have played against ETron a bunch at home, MrDude, against my primary play partner, and have a positive win rate so far. All is Dust (or an unanswered Chalice on 3) is a game loss for us for sure. Chalice on 1 is also vey good. But other than that I feel pretty good about the match.
My list is a little different from yours. I have Thoughtseize #4 in the board, which is very good in the match. I have 2x Wall of Omens main, which are great against Matter Reshaper and can also chump a Seer or Smasher to preserve a walker for a crucial turn. I also have a lower curve, with no 5-drops and fewer 4-drops, so I can get my deck's game plan online a little faster.
Not sure if those things would help, but I will say that I don't feel a need for Kor Firewalker. With 4x Trials plus two Walls and one Brutality in the main, my Burn match is pretty good without any dedicated hate.
Bitterblossom has continuously been one of the strongest cards in the deck. So I have moved up to 4 copies and supplemented this with 2 sorins. This list feels the strongest of the iterations so far and my last league went 4-1 losing only to titanshift. I've cut all the card draw, apparently it isn't needed with value engines such as blossom and walkers in the deck.
The curve of discard --> blossom --> walker --> walker has been strong against almost every opposing deck.
I personally don't like the sorins as a card very much, but their role of lifegain + fast clock with blossom/souls tokens has given them a place to stay so far. The lifegain has been so relevant that even though I lost the titanshift matchup I actually won game 1 because sorin and lingering souls got me up to 38 life and scapeshift was unable to kill me.
I have also swapped my field of ruins into tec edges to hedge my tron matchups more and because with 4 drops being the upper limit it gives me a benefit during flooding out.
TL:DR Version -- My Opinions
23 lands = 4 drop maximum CMC
Bitterblossom must be at least 2 copies
Card draw doesn't seem neccessary
2-2 tonight, couple of fetches swapped in for the Caves and Chapel.
R1, 2-0 vs. Jeskai Geist: Won the roll and then rode Spirits and Faeries to victory in both games.
R2, 2-0 vs. Jund: Lost the roll. In G1 I smacked him around with some Spirits and then cleared the board with Damnation to swing in with Gids for the win. In G2 he made a tactical error and left me with a RiP in hand after taking a BB with his opening disruption; that RiP ended up neutering all 4 Goyfs to permanent 0/1 status throughout the game.
R3, 1-2 vs. Grixis Midrange: Won the roll and G1 but lost G2 & G3 to one of my shop's better players, whom I've beat several times with this deck over the past month. Pia and Kiran Nalaar out valued me as my opponent maxed out on Countersquall draws, backed up by Izzet Staticaster. I was missing the Wraths I took out after G1, after dying to Mom and Dad beats.
R4, 0-2 vs. Eldrazi Tron: I won the roll and IoK'ed his Map away, seeing him on two Tron lands, but leaving him a Chalice. Naturally he topdecks a Map on his opening draw. It was trivial for him to run me over after that, in part because I punted by discarding a much-needed Wrath to Lili too early in the game. In G2 an early Chalice stranded a total of 5 cards in my hand, by the final turn, and he countered my Damnation with Warping Wail. In this match he also drew two Ratchet Bombs, and blind-Needled Ally on T1, which was in my opening hand, and was the only walker I would see in the match. So, yeah. Tron did Tron things and my interaction was very bad.
Looking forward to Friday and this weekend at the GP side events. Will write up.
All of your lists seem to have one thing that bothers me, you play 6-8 token generators (Souls, BB) as well as 2-3 mainboard sweepers, in the same deck. to me this feels counterintuitive, to flood the board and then draw wrath spells. Have such issues come up? Or does it seem to work out regardless. I like the idea of running no sweepers with the full 4 Lingering Souls and 4 Bitterblossom. Then go heavy with Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, Sorin, Solemn Visitor , and Elspeth, Sun's Champion as ways to facilitate a token plan. Plus, Gideon of the Trials can make Bitterblossom's lifeloss negligible.
Private Mod Note
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The worst part isn't the pain, or the smell, or even the fear of death. It's hearing the clatter of bone on stone and knowing the bones are yours."BRG
Nah, you need the sweepers, minimum of three, I reckon. Both token generators have resistance to sweeper effects (as, obviously, do the planeswalkers and Heart, too). The second half of Souls can hang around in the yard until after the sweeper, and BB just keeps pumping out the Faeries post board-clear too. But the real fun is in sweeping in main phase one and then activating one or more large threats for the same turn's combat phase. It's completely possible to swing for 8 on T4 on an empty board, or for 13 on T5.
Tokens are a plan B in this deck, the way I see it; they mainly help protect the walkers. Gideon and Lili are plan A. Sorin, Solemn Visitor is a card I've been considering, but unlike the other cards (except Heart) it is very bad on an empty board by itself. Still, his synergy with BB and Souls might make him worth it.
Well haven't posted recently, had a whole bunch of middling results for a few weeks. Also I have bought into 5C Humans and have been having fun stepping away from my midrange roots for a bit.
Anyway my past six results were 2-2, 2-2, 2-2, 2-2, 0-3 (drop), 4-0. In the very first of those matches I got beat up as bad as I hope it ever happens, by a kid with his first Modern deck, at his first Modern event, on U-Tron, who mulled to 4, drew natural Tron on T4 off DESPITE my T2 Ghost Quarter to prevent it, and then killed me with a Spine of Ish Sah/Trading Post/Academy Ruins lock. Wow, was I salty about that one. But, variance is a thing, works both ways, that's the game we play, yadda yadda. (Kid had no sideboard.)
In the first two tournaments I was back to 2x Heart of Kiran, but I'm now convinced that is wrong, since it needs a walker to crew it. I still like one though.
I was at the GP Oklahoma City this weekend. I went 4-4 drop.
In retrospect I still feel like the deck is very powerful. I got really screwed in the 8th round giving me my 4th loss. He was playing Humans (was giddy with glee when I seen what he was playing) and I got stuck on 3 lands with 2 Damnation in my hand in the 3rd game. Even the guy I played said "I have no business beating that deck". I agree sir... I agree...
Round 1: 0-2 vs Lantern control. Not much to say here. Its Lantern control and it sucks. Game 2: I brought in the 1 Collective Brutality 1 Disenchant 1 Anguished Unmaking 1 Oblivion Ring, and opening hand he Thoughtseize one out of my hand, then Lantern came down and he was able to shread the rest off my deck the rest of the game. Hate that deck.
Round 2: 2-1 vs Burn: We have a great match up vs Burn. Kill any of there little dudes, then use Gideon of the Trils to tick up 1 time making him 4 counters. SO they need to use 2 burn spells on it. Or you just win. And if they do use 2 burn spells to kill him, then you are given 2 turns it feels like to come back in the match. I had no problems. Good match up.
Round 3: 2-0 Jund: This was another good game for us. We can kill any of there treats even if they do Thoughtseize us. Was a easy round.
Round 4: 2-0 vs Burn: Same as round 2. Easy stuff.
Round 5: 0-1-1 vs. GW Value town: This was just grindy match that seemed like no end. He had the Azusa, Lost but Seeking, Ramunap Excavator, Courser of Kruphix, combo on me both games. I could Wrath of God and he god stuff back with CC and the grind started again. Was really long match.
Round 6: 0-2 vs Blue/Black Faeries: I had never played agenst Faeries before. This was odd and even after a Inquisition of Kozilek he still got out Bitterblossom turn 2 both games and he had the counters in Remand and some flash faeries that could counter, and he out lasted me.
Round 7: 2-0 vs. Eldrazi Tron: This was the most wierd match of the night. I normal have a bad match vs E. Tron. BUT!... The man that was my opponent, came to the table MAD! Like PISSED OFF! MADDDDD!!!! I dont know what happend, I got to the table early and was just talking with the guys around and we was joking and laughing, you know just having fun. When he got there I asked "Hi how are you?" He replyed "Not good" In a very angry tone.
While he got setup I talked with the guys around and then he still looked so mad when he sat down I said "Hey man, you okay?" he said "no not at all" after that I just left him alone.
As for the match every thing went my way, nothing he did mattered much. I won both games kind of easy witch is very weird for me vs this deck.
After we was done and packing up out stuff he just started cursing and very loud about being angry over losing and "How once I would like to make a God Damn day two, and his ******* deck to work just once." as he was walking away. Super odd.
Round 8: vs Humans: Game one goes as you would think, I killed every thing. He was surprised by a main deck Damnation and I just rolled him over.
2nd game I had a clunky hand he got the PERFECT hand and he won. no big deal. 3rd game, I had some removal, 1 Swamp, 1 Godless Shine, and 1 Damnation, and 1 Gideon of the Trials. All I had to do was draw land and win......
I drew a Tectonic Edge and then never seen another land the rest of the game. I was able to hold him off for turn with Fatal Push and Patch to Exile, but he kept come back with more dudes. I even drew the 2nd Damnation. But no land to cast it. Before the last turn for him to win he cast a Kitesail Freebooter and seen my hand and was in shock. "Oh man now I see whats going on, I thought you was trying to slow roll me" No sir... my deck just didn't want to work all of a sudden. After the match he said "sorry man, I had no business beating that deck".
That's the way magic goes some times. That's my report. I still think the deck is really good. There is something here in this type of deck. I know I don't have the best 75 cards. But something to work off of and make better.
This is a list I'm running that I'm testing. I'm trying Weathered Wayfarer in these controlling list where its pretty much the only nontoken creature to grab Shrine to Nyx for mana ramp. Since we have a bunch of different lands to gain advantage.
Haven't played this deck much over the past couple of months but I'm not ready to write to off yet. With that in mind, I found an old CFB article that covers the difficulty of resolving a 4 CMC Wrath effect against fast go-wide aggro in time to prevent an ignominious death:
This article absolutely cements my sense that there is absolutely zero space for big Elspeth, and probably no room for big Gideon or Ob Nix, in this deck. The article is very definitely worth a read and I wish I'd stumbled onto this information a long time ago. The money quote: “Six mana is way more than five... maybe two mana more.”
Match 1: Ad Nauseam
Game 1 - He mulled to five and my discard knocked him off balance until the Gideons killed him.
Game 2 - He combos out.
Game 3 - He gets laboratory maniac and "wins." I realized I had actually won the game after because I had a Gideon of the Trials with an emblem and he couldn't have won with maniac. Oh well :/
Match 2: Death's Shadow
I don't remember either game, but it was a one-sided affair in my favor. This probably is our best match-up. 2-0
Match 3: Storm
Game 1 - He mulls and I remove his hand with discard. A timely LOTV ultimate keeps him from the lands he needs to past in flames from his graveyard. He dies to a Gideon.
Game 2 - My removal kills off all of his creatures. He gets a blood moon into play, but surgical extraction on his grapeshot is the game. He concedes because he didn't side in empty the warrens after seeing me discard mass removal game 1.
Turbo Game 1: Burn
Easy match up as I drew a collective brutality and a gideon of the trials both games. 2-0
Turbo Game 2: Affinity
Game 1 - my spot removal holds the line until I surprise her with a wrath. That wins me the game.
Game 2 - Blood moon prevents me from playing magic.
Game 3 - A turn 2 stony silence and a wrath effect are enough to win the match.
Match 1: Affinity
Game 1 - A one-sided affair with all my removal.
Game 2- He drops a blood moon. I fetch for a plains in response, but draw 3 fatal pushes. I die shortly after.
Game 3 - I keep a risky one land hand with 3 paths, 1 push, and a stony silence. I never draw my second land.
Match 2: Bye
Match 3: My opponent and I split so that we can play in the next event.
Match 1: Eldrazi and Taxes
Game 1 - Bitterblossom tokens overwhelm him.
Game 2 - His mana denial plan shuts me down.
Game 3 - We play a long game of attrition as my removal slowly withes his creatures away until my planeswalkers give me the advantage.
Match 2: Tropical Merfolk
Game 1 - He's flooded for a few turns, allowing me to play 3 'walkers and take control of the game.
Game 2 - A timely spreading seas and island walking lord wins him the game.
Game 3 - Spot and mass removal prevent him from getting the critical mass of fish people he needed to win. I keep a ghost quarter up
the whole game to prevent spreading seas from being a factor.
Match 3: My opponent and I split so I can play the next event.
Match 1: Affinity
She's not running blood moon and I don't have mana issues. The games were super easy as a result. 2-0
Match 2: Eldrazi Tron
Game 1: He mulls to five, but he still has a chalice on one. Lucky for me, I kept a hand with a Gideon of the Trials and a Liliana. Still, he gets enough
Eldrazi on the board that he gets me down to five. He's at 8. I decline to block with any of my spirit tokens. I draw a Gideon, Ally of Zendikar. I pop him for his anthem emblem and win.
Game 2: Chalices and All is Dust beat me down.
Game 3: Despite an All is Dust, I play enough creatures on the board to win. A couple of wrath effects keep his eldrazi army at bay (drawing two cards from two dead thought-knot seers certainty helps!)
Match 3: We split.
Turbo Game 3: Kiki-Cord
Game 1 - This is a long war of attrition, but he's not prepared for a wrath game 1.
Game 2 - Orzhov Pontiff kills my spirit tokens and then his creatures kill me.
Game 3 - I path his Kiki-Jiki when he tries to combo out and Gideon my way to victory.
Turbo Game 4: Esper Gifts with Thopter Foundry Combo
Game 1 - He combos out.
Game 2/Game 3 - Rest in peace stalls his deck long enough for my deck to finish him.
Match 1: Eldrazi Tron
I lose terribly despite an easy game 1 because he mulls to five. 1-2.
Match 3: Jund
Both games were long wars of attrition, but I have more removal for his creatures than he has for my 'walkers. He make's a mistake in sacrificing his LOTV to use her ultimate instead ticking up to 7 to keep her in play. I go from 8 to 4 lands, but the deck only needs 4 lands to function.
Match 1: Simic Goodstuff
He looked like he wandered in from an EDH game, with prophet of kruphix and venser in his deck. It was odd. 2-1.
Turbo Game 6: Tropical Merfolk
He's unprepared for all the removal I have. As long as they don't have too many spreading seas early, this feels like an easy matchup. 2-0.
Bontu's last reckoning was worth it as long as the opponent didn't see it coming (most game 1s). If they prepare for it, the drawback can hurt us badly. I think the cmc of 3 instead of 4 is very useful, but the drawback requires more careful play than a 4 cmc wrath would. Tombstalker was a way of avoiding pithing needles and token hosers, but it never felt necessary. I consider it a flex spot for alternative finishers like Heart of Kiran.
The only matchup where the deck really struggled was Eldrazi Tron. Death's Shadow, Jund, Storm, Tropical Merfolk and Affinity are all favorable matchups (minus the blood moons). I think practice against Collected Company might improve the match up, so it might not be as hopeless as it feels at first. Overall, the deck did very well and the format was very diverse. I won a foil tarmogoyf and a booster box of Hour of Devastation, so the deck is worth it in GP side events at least
Hey, awesome, thanks for posting! Glad someone's keeping the dream alive (and testing Bontu's). I've been on 5C Humans for a little while but am thinking about coming bak to my Orzhov roots... I appreciate your perspective. Did you ever find GQ a problem for WW or BB, at 4 copies?
Hey, awesome, thanks for posting! Glad someone's keeping the dream alive (and testing Bontu's). I've been on 5C Humans for a little while but am thinking about coming bak to my Orzhov roots... I appreciate your perspective. Did you ever find GQ a problem for WW or BB, at 4 copies?
Nah, the color balance of the deck felt right. The only mana troubles I had were due to mana screw or mana flood from variance.
I think this deck is very well set up to take advantage of mass removal, even mass removal with a drawback like Bontu's. For a wrath to be effective, it has to generate card advantage, i.e. one wrath has to take out at least two creatures. Bontu complicates things since it stalls our tempo for a turn. Its cheaper to cast, but its drawback means that we might want to spend a few turns to properly set it up. So even though it costs three, we're incentivized to wait beyond turn three to actually pull the trigger.
To obtain card advantage from Bontu, we either need a permanent that can act as a spell even when our lands are tapped or we need the opponent to overextend so badly that the card advantage generated by casting Bontu is overpowering. The former is created by our planeswalkers - even when we're tapped for a turn, a Gideon or a Liliana in play can still act as spells even if we can't use the cards in our hand.
As for the latter, the deck greatly encourages our opponents to overextend: Our discard encourages our opponents to play their best cards or risk losing them. Spot removal, tokens, Gideon of the Trials first ability, and Liliana of the Veil second ability means that our opponents can't just cast one creature and expect it to win the game for them. They have to play at least two creatures to overcome everything we have. And if they do, our mass removal will generate the card advantage required to be game winning cards.
I keep wondering if a card like Hour of Reckoning would be helpful in a deck like this. The CC of 7 seems daunting, but if we have 3 creatures in play you can cast it for Four. If you have four creatures in play you can cast it for 3. So its definitely harder to play, but the upside doesn't sweep your creatures. I've played one and liked it, but I don't think it can be played in large number and needs to be played with other sweepers to keep from being bum rushed.
Hey everyone! Been searching for a thread like this one and really excited to potentially help "keep the dream alive" as @deaddrift put it :). I have played UW Control traditionally, but recently been wanting to create a brew that was different and felt more in development rather than already complete. I think BW are the two strongest colors in modern at the moment between MB and SB and was interested in seeing if I could do a control build off of that. I had recently watched Frank Lapore and Craig Wescoe run through some BW Control/BW Superfriends brews successfully and I'm looking to combine the two ideas w/ a more traditional control feel. Here is my decklist which I've been playing recently:
The deck has less planeswalkers, more in terms of card draw, ways to gain back life loss, and soft/hard counters. I have taken it to my local FNM as well as been playing on MTGO. I have been really pleased thus far with how it's performing and excited to continue to modify it. If you guys have any thoughts/suggestions/questions, I'd be happy to hear them. Hope this thread continues to grow!
I am planning on trying heart of kiran in a more planeswalker heavy build. I assume people have tried them but I never see them in lists anymore. It just seems too good at preemptively protecting the planeswalkers to not be playing, while simultaneously giving us more speed against decks we can't durdle around with.