With the new planeswalkers legend rule scheduled to take effect next week, I've been thinking about developing mtggoldfish's Gideon Tribal deck, by Saffron Olive, into a real thing that uses all of the format's best three-drop planeswalkers. That means black and white, since Lili and Gideon are almost the only walkers seeing play at all, outside Tron builds.
Some of the mtggoldfish deck struck me as pretty bad, like for instance Oath of Gideon and Anointed Procession. The idea here is basically to gain insurmountable advantage with value walkers, using Gideons for threats and control and Lilis for disruption and control. Three-drop Gid's emblem gives inevitability, as long as one of his seven other frat brothers is around to party 'til the wee hours. Gideon's other various ults are pretty meh, so it's convenient that Lili's ults are so backbreaking for an opponent. Hand disruption, Path/Push, and Damnation keep the board clear without affecting our own side of the battlefield, except for a few expendable Spirit tokens. Heart of Kiran should always be live on attacks and blocks, since it will be so easy to crew, and can be retrieved using LtLH's -2 when it inevitably draws an opponent's otherwise-useless targeted removal. Despite it being legendary, it may prove so good that it should be bumped to four copies. LotV needs discard fodder anyway.
The sideboard may need some serious changes, since I have no idea as yet how this deck will play out in actuality. Hoping to use MTGS to tune this idea to its fullest extent with the help of the community.
Went 2-4 at a PPTQ with 60 players today, ran into some bad variance with pairings, die rolls, and draws. I audible'd to 4x Ally and 0x Jura, 4x Veil and 2x Last Hope, and 3x Path/3x Push after reconsidering my build and its outs. Barely play tested before the event at all and I'm sure I could do quite a bit better with more practice and a little more luck.
Round 1: Lost the die roll, then lost 0-2 to Sun and Moon--got T1 Blood Moon'ed on the draw G1 and then mulled to 5 to find a Thoughtseize and two Marsh Flats in G2, only for him to T0 a Leyline of Sanctity and then beat me down while I whiffed on more lands. I made a mistake thinking that a late Leyline of my own would protect me from Chandra, Torch of Defiance's +1. It doesn't target.
Round 2: Lost the die roll and then lost 0-2 to RG Ponza--Stormbreath Dragon lines up preeeetty well against Path, Push, and Spirit tokens . I played G2 extremely well, using my Gids to bait out both Inferno Titans and the one Stormbreath I saw in his opener, only to get them all with Damnation and leaving him with no cards in hand and me with two Souls to flash back the following turn. However I was left at 8 life by then, so naturally he immediately topdecked another Stormbreath.
Round 3: Lost the roll and then lost 0-2 to Lantern Control and his T1 Lantern of Insight. Lantern allowed him to keep me off my mana after keeping a hand with only one dual but THREE Gideon of the Trials. A shaky keep to be sure, but since I knew what my opponent was on I think it may have been justifiable. Naturally he milled every land I would have drawn. In G2 I landed a Leyline and a Stony but his triple Ensnaring Bridge and my Extracted Ghost Quarters meant I was dead to the Academy Ruins library-refilling mill lock. However he ceded to me since he figured he was already out of prizes, so I marked that as a win for the record and soldiered on, looking for a non-prison match pairing. I should have brought in Rest in Peace here, but didn't.
Round 4: Lost the roll to Eternal Command but took the match 2-0. In G1 he got an endless Eternal Witness/Cryptic Command loop using Aether Vial to tap my team each turn, bouncing his Witness, but eventually I drew into enough threats to force him to counter instead of bounce, allowing me to swing in. Dual Gideons were very good here. In G2 my hand disruption allowed my Wraths to push through counterspells, clearing the board for Gids to beat face.
Round 5: Lost the roll to Merfolk and destroyed him with sweepers, targeted removal, walkers, and Heart of Kiran. 2-0.
Round 6: Lost the roll and G1 to BW Eldrazi (aka my pet deck) via many, many Spirit tokens. No sweepers to be found for me. Sided in Leyline and Tendrils for G2-3 and took G2 with my own Spirit token army, playing around his two in-hand Wasteland Stranglers to preserve my Heart, which would die in his second main if it blocked a token in combat. One Damnation cleared the way forward for me in this game. A T0 Leyline did lots of work for me in G3, but again my failure to draw any of my four sweepers meant his Spirit tokens overran me with Smasher backup in turns for the loss, with and official record of 3-3.
Extremely bad die rolls, very unfortunate pairings in the early rounds, some key mistakes, and card draw variance against me were all making things hard all day. However I wonder what changes might be worth investigating going forward. My ideas:
3x Fulminator Mage in the side, going back to 3x Liliana, the Last Hope in the main, for land destruction recursion that still gets value with Wraths
1-2x Surgical Extraction in the side for an opponent's key cards that get taken out by Mage, GQ, or IoK/Thoughtseize
Probably have to lose the Leylines and I dunno what else to do this. Open to suggestions if any reader has one and cares to share it.
Thanks for reading, I'll be beating on this for a few weeks at the FNM level to see what I can make of it.
The mana gets more stable and the side gets more flexible. Disenchant can't hit opposing walkers like Unmaking can, but it's much cheaper and easier to cast. It hits Bridge, Chalice, Moon, and Leyline better than Unmaking does, which is what's most important. It also helps against Affinity and Tron variants, which is a big deal.
Extraction helps clean out problems sent to the yard by hand disruption or land destruction. The latter is now bolstered by 3x Fulminator Mage in the side, despite losing one GQ main to make room for a BW dual. Gonna try it like this for a night or two and see what it can do.
I've considered Wall of Omens. Seems better in a list with Liliana, the Last Hope, to me, because she can recur it. What are your wincons, mtthwds? Your list seems light on threats.
LtLH is not amazing because of her -2 whiffing on almost the entire mainboard. But on the other hand her ult will win in any long game, so by playing her she removes pressure from my faster threats. Still, I'm considering dropping one copy for a one-of Night's Whisper to improve the curve and increase the dig. And Lili is good against Elves, of which there are a few players at my LGS. Elves also has me considering losing a Wrath for a one-of Bontu's Last Reckoning. However, Wrath/Damnation fit the curve better as a follow-up to little Gids or either Lili.
This deck is quite fun and actually plays out with a lot of game, more than a gimmick deck for sure. Too early to tell how it fares against an open meta, but it seems to be fitting the classic midrange mold of being weak to big mana (Tron, Valakut decks) while being pretty evenly-matched against much of the rest of the field. Resolved planeswalkers are quite hard for opponents to deal with, in general, and draw a lot of heat away from me in most games.
There is a ton of hand disruption (especially post-board) and removal to help with control, combo, and aggro. There is a lot of the best land, artifact and graveyard hate in the sideboard as well. A likely change to the SB that I'm considering right now is -1 Disenchant for +1 Anguished Unmaking, which would answer Karn, Ulamog, and Wurmcoil from Eldrazi Tron.
Would love to hear from others exploring similar ideas. Thanks for reading.
Either 4 drop Sorin seems good, especially over Last Hope. Both can make dorks and pump the team, I'd personally give the edge to SV though since you're already going somewhat wide with Knight Allys and Lingering Souls.
Red should be burn, Goblins, Dragons, draw/discard, and Standard-unplayable 5CMC cards with insane, lengthy effects that take 10 minutes to figure out what they do and another 20 to actually make their effects work on the field.
Weird, for whatever reason, I'm not getting an alert when someone else posts here. I'll have to check more often, if others are actually going to read this!
I was 0-2-1 drop on Friday but 4-0 yesterday at my LGS with the last posted build.
Either 4 drop Sorin seems good, especially over Last Hope. Both can make dorks and pump the team, I'd personally give the edge to SV though since you're already going somewhat wide with Knight Allys and Lingering Souls.
Having played a bunch with Sorin SV, I'd disagree; it's important that a walker's plus in this deck protects it, even on an otherwise empty board. (Though LotV is so good that she's an exception.) Visitor turns out to be kind of a win-more card in a non-tokens shell, in my experience. Sorin, LoI is better, but for 4 mana I want more than he offers. Lifelink does not seem super relevant in a deck where my life total tends to stay so high in most matches.
LtLH still has a weak -2 almost all of the time, but her plus demands that opponents take it seriously, because they literally cannot win if she ults. In this respect she draws attention from my other threats, while offering a serious (if slow) threat herself. She also complements LotV extremely well, and her plus acts as another minor fog or removal spell of sorts. For now I'll continue to give her some deck space.
Runed Halo is for Storm and other combo-matchups, which are pretty bad preboard.
Hey, good luck! Personally I think you may find that Urborg and Vault could be better as other choices. Vault could be great backup for a swinging Gideon, but I'm not sure I see a role for Urborg in a deck with such heavy WW needs. I have been extremely pleased with my high WB manabase build, and I like what Fetid Heath does for my fetches and basics. I NEVER have problems with T3 colors.
My only match against Storm so far went to me in two games after some bad luck by my opponent plus lots of discard and removal from my side of the table. Runed Halo seems quite good against Storm and Valakut, but will soon no longer protect our Gideons from these cards, even if it continues to protect us from them. (Same for Leyline.)
Hello all, I'v been thinking about a good Black White Plainswalker control deck and played around with some lists very similar to yours on my own.
I was kind of excited to find this thread when looking around to maybe get some good ideas and feed back.
I am going to GP Oklahoma City in about a 6 weeks, and since I have been playing around with this for a while I'm leaning to use this deck.
I thought to use/try out the Thalia's Lancers because of the new legend rule it is a 4/4 FirstStrike AND a tutor for any Plainswalker you need at the time.
2-1 vs. a Blue based Affinity deck
2-1 vs. normal Affinity
2-1 vs. Grixis Death's Shadow
2-1 vs. Mono White Death and Taxes
2-0 vs. Green/White Todd Stephens Good Stuff deck.
So I felt really good about the deck. I think the Thalia's lancers and Ob Nixilis Reignited was MVP's every time they showed up.
Let me know what you guys think. Lets keep the discussion going.
Went to a local game store and played resoltes is as follows:
2-0 Green Black delirium deck trying to cast Emrakul, the Promised End it was a home brew but was able to get around it.
0-2 Eldrazi Tron: I need to find better sideboard for this deck. I played well. But Eldrazi Tron is really good.
1-2 Mono Red Goblins: 1 game I drew 2 lands and nothing else and he over powered me. 2nd game I had my way with him. 3rd game I drew all none basic lands, no basics, no fetch lands to get a basic, and he played Blood Moon and shut me down so hard. I could not believe it.
2-0 Affinity
Really think I just to work on the sideboard at this point.
I went 4-1 tonight, the deck feels good. I think it might even be an actual thing, and may have legs in the larger meta game. Right now I would not change a card except for one minor tweak to the side. The list:
I kinda wish I could call this deck "BW Hatef&%k" but my friend correctly points out that sexualizing the game is inherently not right, and there's an unforeseen but undeniable and unfortunate racial angle too, so... here's a play report and we won't speak of this again.
R1, 2-0 vs. Naya KoTR: Won the roll and had easy beats against a goodstuff deck playing Bolt and Goyf but no Retreat, no Kiki/Resto, no Nahiri. Won as usual with onesided board wipes, disruption, and Gideons. Don't remember much.
R2, 0-2 vs. Bant Eldrazi: Won the roll and kept a 7 in G1 with two lands--but didn't draw the third land (a Vent) til T4 and then the 4th (a Courtyard) on T6, dying to a huge Displacer/Drowner army with two Wraths in hand. In G2 he got an early Displacer/Drowner package again after TKS-ing my only wrath effect. Matchup seems like it would be fine with a little less variance--kinda drew the wrong half of my deck, as one does sometimes.
R3, 2-0 vs. Esper Mill: Won the roll. Gideon's Ult (plus LtLH's ult) won G1 for me with zero cards left in my deck at the beginning of my last turn; in G2 I threw Gideons at him while ignoring his Ashiok who exiled zero creatures of course. I sided in four more cards than I sided out in this match, and won G2 with 6 cards left in the deck. This was one of those matchups where Gids' emblem was essentially unanswerable for my opponent. In both games I took an early Hero's Downfall before beginning my evil T3 plan, which was obviously super relevant.
R4, 2-0 vs. Ad Nauseam: Won the roll again. In both games I destroyed his hand with all the Thoughtseizes and Lilis. He wouldn't have had it in G1, but he also didn't know to mull for Leyline in G2, being kind of new, so hand disruption just wrecked him twice. I really got lucky with all the targeted hand hate actually and it wasn't fun for him. Always bring in Stony Silence in this match.
R5, 2-1 vs. GW Hatebears: Lost the roll, but won G1 with lots of hand disruption plus both Lilis. Having played Path and Ghost Quarter for years, few things please me more than a hatebears player tapping out for a T2 Leonin Arbiter. Sometimes I can cripple a player who does this, as I had actually done to him earlier in the night, when we played for fun. But when I tried it in G2 this time he had plenty of lands in hand, and overran me as I whiffed on boardwipes. However, in G3 I got all four of his Loxodon Smiters (plus some assorted miscellany) with two Wraths, which was backbreaking on top of the usual walker beats.
Deck really feels right, gotta say. The card advantage aspect of having so many walkers--each of which represents a free spell every turn--plus the difficulty for opponents in removing them, really makes the deck resilient in a lot of ways. Gideon of the Trials provides weird free wins, and both Gids beat down like nobody's business, especially when backed up by Heart of Kiran. The whole one-sided boardwipe thing is extremely good, making three Wratheffects feel like the low-end number, maybe. There is a ton of combo hate, with a playset of Thoughtseize (plus two Brutality) postboard to strengthen the important disruption plan.
Now, I'm the first to admit my weird fetish for and bias towards Orzhov decks; but the whole thing just feels like a possibly-viable midrange strategy in the current meta. I'll keep running it for now, anyway.
Had so much fun last night that I decided to take it to the Saturday tourney, which is much smaller, averaging 12-18 players. Today there were 13, and I went 4-0 while dropping only one game due to mana screw. I played the same exact list again, except for the SB switch to 2x Disenchant/2x Stony instead of 1/3.
R1, 2-0 vs. Dredge: mulled to 5 on the play after winning the die roll, and kept a hand with T1 Thoughtseize, which took his T1 Looting and shut down his engine hard in opening turns. I got a Hug next while he was still stuck on one land, and then was able to race him with Heart, Trials, and a Shambling Vent for the win. In G2 I mulled to 6 but kept an opener with Extraction in hand and a RiP on the top for my scry. RiP got blown up pretty quickly but still slowed him down effectively, and then a pair of Gids plus Vent swung through for the win. My life total never dipped below 15 in this match.
R2, 2-0 vs. Grixis Death's Shadow: Won the roll again (I was lucky with this all day today) and had my hand torn up by 3x Thoughtseize from my opponent, but a pair of Lingering Souls plus LotV grinded him out very effectively. In G2 I brought in RiP again, turning off Snapcaster and Delve shenanigans. We both landed a LotV; but my -2 was much, much more effective in this match than his, since most of my creatures aren't creatures at all, most of the time. He never hit me at all, getting distracted by my walkers, and my life never dropped below 20 during this match.
R3, 2-1 vs. UW EmeriaTitan: Won the roll again, mulled to 5, and lost G1 to a swarm of annoying white crap like Flickerwisp, Blade Splicer, and Lone Missionary, while I failed to draw land #4 for the Damnation I was holding. In G2 Trials, Heart, and LotV got me there with further RiP backup; while in G3 my win came again from Trials, Heart, and RiP. In G1 I dropped as low as 17 life , but in G3 he put up some resistance, getting me all the way to 12 life before I cleaned him up.
R4, 2-0 vs. Grixis DS: won the roll again, and outvalued him with lots of removal, Trials, and 2x Souls. In G2 Trials and LtLH combined to fog his big guys and ping away his Snapcasters, while RiP kept his value plan shut down again. I dropped to 12 life in G1 and to 16 in G2.
No question that 3x Rest in Peace (backed up by 2x Extraction) were the all stars today, coming in for every post-board game. Winning the die roll each time made things easier for sure, but when an employee asked later which matchups felt bad, I was unable to think of any. So far I've felt very well positioned in each contest I've faced with the 2x Heart, 2x Wall, 2x Last Hope version of the deck. Eldrazi Tron I have played a lot, and don't feel bad about that match at all, though a nuts draw from them can lead to an early Chalice on 3, which is very good against me. Titanshift/Breach Titan might be pretty tough I'd imagine--it usually is, for BW midrange decks, in my experience--but I have yet to face that deck.
Another card to consider in this build is Bitterblossom, which fits ideally into the curve, pumps out disposable flying chumps every turn, and won't kill us as long as we have an emblem and a Gids on deck. (My life total is staying high in almost all games anyway.) I won't be running it right away unless I can convince myself it's a better choice than the cards I'm already winning with. But it's worth adding to the maybe pile for sure.
Not missing Jura in my deck at all, and in fact, getting to 5 mana in a timely manner does not seem guaranteed in my 23 land build. For the same reason, I win't be trying Ob Nixilis Reignited right now; despite the obvious late-game power, it is too steep a cost for me in a deck that doesn't actually seem to actually need it.
Weird, it didn't give me a reply ether for this thread. I will need to check it more myself.
@deaddrift I love how your doing good with the deck. Have you played vs. Eldrazi Tron? What are your match ups like on it? I see you lost to Bant Eldrazi but looks like you got screwed on it.
I have a few ideas, since I'm an opinionated bastard. My ideas are long winded, too, since I talk too much.
1. I think Leyline of Sanctity is too narrow; Ad Nauseam can still kill you with Laboratory Maniac (not if you also ult Trials though), Storm can still kill you with Empty the Warrens, Titan/Valakut decks can still kill you with Titan or Woodfall Primus beats, and this deck doesn't really care that much about opposing hand disruption from say Abzan. Leyline is good against Burn, but Trials is already very good against Burn, if you run four and if you also have a few copies of Ally in the deck. Both little Gids are amazing and I'm certain it's correct to run at least three of each. The other problem with Leyline is the whole opening-hand thing, where it can encourage you to mull away otherwise powerful hands if you don't have it, or where you might be tempted to keep a shaky hand because of it. You may find that it comes down too late (in a Burn match) to do any good if it's not in your opener. Added to that, is that MaRo says it soon won't protect the walkers any more, and I think the card is a miss for our deck. (On a side note, Burn is the reason I'm also staying away from Bitterblossom right now.)
2. Having a solid mana base for the deck is crucial. I never want to miss a powerful T3 play. So I intentionally set up my land package to check all the boxes that Frank Karsten sets out in these two extremely valuable articles:
I suggest bookmarking those if you like to brew. He tells us that we want 14 untapped sources of B for T1, and 19 sources for both BB and WW on T3. He also tells us that if the deck's average CMC is between 2.08-2.40 (mine is 2.35) then we want 23 lands, and if the average CMC is between 2.40-2.72 then we want 24 lands. Both Isolated Chapel and Fetid Heath are likely to ETB untapped as BW sources after T1, so I have one of each. The only other land I'd consider would be Caves of Koilos, and since my life total is usually so high, I think I could run a few with little problem. I could see swapping two or three Caves in for some mix of Concealed Courtyards, Godless Shrines, or the singleton Isolated Chapel, for instance. Personally, I think running a single Fetid Heath is correct, since it turns basics into duals for the walkers. Two Fetid Heath is too many, though. Shambling Vent is amazing and I wouldn't run fewer than three, despite the ETB-tapped thing.
3. I am convinced that this deck absolutely wants two Heart of Kiran. It does turn on Fatal Push (and Terminate), but we are already strongly favored against Grixis Death's Shadow. And if it eats a Path or a Dismember, then it just saved a Gideon! It speeds up the clock by a ton, since it can swing for four--in the air, and remaining live for defense due to vigilance--on T3, and usually each turn thereafter. Since I run nine 3-drop walkers, I swing on T3 with it almost every game where I play it on T2. Like the rest of the threats, it survives sorcery-speed board wipes on both sides. Heart is amazing against Affinity. Play Heart! You'll love it! (Mulitples in hand suck though, so three was too many for me.)
4. Playing against Eldrazi Tron (haven't played vs. Gx Tron with this deck): Heart helps a lot, since you absolutely want a fast clock that can swing over a clogged-up ground battle. You want Thoughtseize over Inquisition, and Brutality is bad. Our beaters actually line up pretty favorably against theirs, especially Ally (or Jura). Trials is great at nerfing their threats and LotV can strip their hand and eliminate threats through a Chalice. If they get Chalice on 3 we're in for a bad time, though. If you get a boardwipe and dodge their All is Dust then you're usually in pretty good shape.
There's more to side in than out, sadly. Here's my usual siding strategy:
It's not uncommon for me to go to 61 cards post-board, especially if I'm on the draw. Stony Silence is very good against Eldrazi Tron, but it turns off our own Heart and I don't feel I have the room, so right now I am not bringing it in. I would absolutely bring in Stony against Gx Tron though, siding out the second Wall and the Night's Whisper. Surgical Extraction is also very good against Gx Tron, but less so against Eldrazi Tron, so right now I am not bringing that in either. Against Gx Tron I'd side out two Souls (too slow) for it. I have a winning record vs. ETron with this deck.
Played tonight to a 3-1 finish. I faced two decks running Blood Moon tonight but was able to play through it pretty well, though the Twinless Twin player managed to combo off on me where I would have had an answer if my fetch land hadn't been turned into a Mountain. I am still completely digging the 2x Heart of Kiran. It closes games SO much faster than games without it. Highly recommended.
R1, 2-1 vs. Eldrazi Tron: Kept seven on the play and had a completely dominant board state until he Dusted me. However, after keeping 6, I won G2 with two Fulminator Mage out of the the side and a LoTV ult to keep him off mana. Then I won G3 with a lot of hand disruption, another LotV, and a LtLH ult.
R2, 2-0 vs. Grixis Faeries: Kept 7 on the play against a friend who helped me craft this deck, winning G1 as he failed to draw a red source for his in-hand Bolts and K Command. Then in G2 I just overwhelmed him with Gideons through a Blood Moon. He couldn't counter my 3+ CMC spells with Spellstutter Sprite since he would have needed an all-in Faeries build to have that kind of critical mass for higher-CMC counters.
R3, 1-2 vs. UR Twinless Twin: I won the roll this time too. This fella had Kiki plus Deceiver Exarch and Pestermite; he got me both post-board games when he tapped down a Plains and left me with a Revolt-less Push in hand. These were good games, and well-played on both sides, but he was able to combo off when I didn't draw my outs.
R4, 2-0 vs. Grixis Midrange: Won the roll AGAIN. I am now on a 12 for 13 streak on die rolls--still, considering I lost the roll something like 16 times in a row in my early trials with the deck, I don't feel too lucky. But maybe I am, because my opponent mana-starved, double scrying to the bottom off Serum Visons on both his T1s, and then missing subsequent land drops for a turn or two each game. Still, URx decks seem pretty favorable for this build in general, and I'm not having too much trouble against these decks, even when they do have the mana they need.
I am now 26-12-1 in matches across all versions of this deck. I'm 24-8-1 since I made significant changes to the sideboard and added 2x Wall of Omens to the main. I am not a very talented player, and I've been mostly lucky with die rolls. I only play on paper, mostly at the FNM level. Still, I think this deck is actually quite good, for real.
Probably I will add in one Shizo, Death's Storehouse to speed up games through chump blocks. This will make me worse to Moon, since Shizo will have to replace a Swamp. But I have decided that I want to be playing to get WW in a Moon matchup anyway. It seems pretty unlikely that I could get both Plains and both Swamps in play under a Moon; so if I have to choose, I'll go for the color that gets me Path, Disenchant, the first half of Souls, and either Gideon, before I go for Lilis or Damnation, which are my only BB spells.
I've been mulling over the Bitterblossom angle in my head a lot, today. I wonder if a Gideon of the Trials deck with 3-4 BB might not just be strictly better than what I've been trying. If we emblem little Gids, how do we even lose? Plusing little Gids each turn while building up an army of faeries seems legitimately near-unbeatable. Such a deck would still play Lingering Souls, I imagine, but would probably replace several of the Lilis with 2-3 Sorin, Solemn Visitor. I think you still run Ally, to keep the little Gids emblem alive, farm out more tokens, and pump our own tokens with his +1/+1 emblem. Then, maybe we swap out one or more Wraths with Zealous Persecution. I think that approach is probably more inevitable, though likely to be slower.
My real problem is that I really just don't want to play a heavy tokens deck; it's where I started in Modern, and I've never been anxious to go back to it. Kind of bummed thinking about the idea that the possibly-best version of my sweet new deck doesn't actually sound like much fun to play, to me.
@Deaddrift I was unseure about the Heart of Kiran you was talking about. But I am going to local event tomorrow and trying them out.
I will report back on how they do.
Good luck MrDude, I think you'll like it. Looking forward to reading your report.
1-2 tonight in a small tourney of 8 players. I added a single Shizo but never drew it. Both tonight and Monday I had a startling number of mulls due to one- or zero-land hands. Made me feel like I was shuffling wrong or something, since it kept happening.
R1, 1-2 vs. Affinity: Kept five on the draw with no removal and got run over by Cranial Plating. In G2 I landed Stony and had a lot of removal, but in G3 again I was a little too slow, keeping a two-lander and whiffing on land draws on turns 1-4.
R2, 2-0 vs. Jund Death's Shadow: We both mulled to six and I kept a good opener with Heart, Trials, an IoK and three lands. He kept a hand full of air and I quickly dispatched him. G2 went to me as well as LotV tore his hand apart and easily dealt with his few creatures.
R3, 1-2 vs. UG Infect: Kept five on the draw with no removal again, and got hit by a T3 kill on a nuts draw. In G2 I easily controlled his board and hand. In G3 I made an early mistake and Path'ed a Glistener Elf on his EOT after keeping six due to ANOTHER zero-land opener; I had a Brutality in hand and another on top from the scry, but they were never able to deal with his two Inkmoth Nexus, which slowly chewed through all four Spirits from my one Souls as they were backed up by Pendlehaven. I flooded hard, finally catching up on all my earlier missing lands, and never drew a second Path, or Push, or Ghost Quarter, or Trials. I sided wrong here; should have brought in Fulminator Mage, replacing sweepers and some copies of Ally.
The repeated mana screw in my opening seven has me wanting to go to 61 cards total, keeping both Swamps and just adding the Shizo. Not too sure that's actually a good idea though. I'm also going to replace one (maybe two) Concealed Courtyard with Caves of Koilos since I have lost several games with in-hand sweepers that I died without casting after topdecking an ETB-tapped land on a crucial turn. Affinity has me wanting to run Bontu's Last Reckoning or maybe Settle the Wreckage as well, but I'll hold off on those for now.
My 2 leagues have gone 4-1, and 1-4 in that order
major losses were to UW control, restore balance, eldrazi tron everything else seems pretty evenly matched so far
The cards in the deck im not happy with are elspeth and ob nix, definitely thinking about making them another 3 mana gideon and liliana. Also, making gideon jura into another gideon, ally of zendikar seems in my mind to be stronger as well.
The maindeck relics were very strong against the 2 storm decks i beat but i dont know if i still want 3 maindeck going forward. path to exiles would have been very nice to have against the tron decks i lost too.
My question is I dont really know where to go further with this deck atm, i dont like liliana last hope at all, she doesnt strike me as a card that wins the bad match ups. Cutting baneslayer angel is maybe why my eldrazi tron matchup felt weak as that card is probably very good until they all is dust. Im also thinking about dropping to 23 lands because even with the walls and nights whisper I was flooding out a lot.
If anyone has any suggestions to improve this current list let me know! Thanks
Why no love for Heart, AllanGuldager? I can see it being bad in a meta with a lot of GDS, since it dies to Push, Terminate, and K Command. Lots of Jund and (to a lesser extent) Abzan would also make it less valuable.
OTOH it's an easy two-of side out against those opponents (Rest in Peace is great against all those decks), and I find that it speeds up my clock so greatly that I can't imagine the deck without it. I routinely hit an opponent for four each turn, while still leaving a 4/4 blocker up, starting on T3--and if my Wraths or targeted removal work as intended, it's pretty common to go T3 swing for four/T4 swing for eight/T5 I win.
I went 5-0 tonight, going 10/11 in games. Not sure how many players, lots of people were playing Standard due to the upcoming GP here in Portland. I changed the list after reflecting about comments and ideas from this thread, reddit, and friends at my LGS. Many thanks to everybody who has chipped in with their thoughts and suggestions.
Bitterblossom was an absolute all-star, no question. I still enjoyed both Heart of Kiran and Liliana, the Last Hope tonight, despite dropping to one of each to make room for the faeries.
R1, 2-0 vs. BW Zombies brew: Won the roll and crushed a new fella. I tried to be nice about it.
R2, 2-0 vs. 8-Rack: I won the roll, but my opponent would have chosen to draw anyway, and did so for G2. In G1 I T1 IoK'ed him on the play, taking his Rack and leaving him a bunch of disruption. A BB topdeck got me there as I played a little draw/go plan for several turns. G2 was similar with an early Heart proving decisive. My opponent also got mana screwed, whiffing on a second Swamp (backed by a Mutavault) for several turns while I smacked him around with Last Hope/Heart beats.
R3, 2-0 vs. Affinity: My opponent was on the play, but kept a very slow five, and I was able to control his board with removal, LtLH, and Trials. In G2 I landed a T2 BB, followed up on T4 and T5 with back-to-back Ally ults, making all my Faeries 3/3s. After that it was easy.
R4, 2-1 vs. GW Vizier/Druid combo: Lost the roll, but I won G1 with disruption and Wrath effects. In G2, he was easily able to combo off for infinite damage. G3 was a real nail biter and I won on turn 4 of time in rounds after sweating my way through using LotV correctly against a board of two Kitchen Finks while I had a Heart in play. Heart's fast clock was the only reason I was able to close this game out. Lots of hand disruption is key in this pairing.
R5, 2-0 vs. UB Midrange/Control: A very good player running his own deck with BB in it, along with Angler, Delver of Secrets, disruption, Chart a Course, and lots of counterspells. I won the roll but mulled to 4 in G1, and then won the game after topdecking a BB on T2 and then a LotV on T4 with three lands in play. I basically visited magical Christmasland for several consecutive draws, and there was nothing he could do to stop me. In G2 I Thoughtseized him, taking his BB, and then next turn landing my own again. I threw various walkers into counterspells while the Fae did their thing.
Thoughts: Two Bitterblossom feels about right, since I don't think we want more than one in play at a time. But three might be better if it continues to over perform like it did tonight. Heart continued to impress me, but unlike BB it is a do-nothing by itself. Being able to land a real threat on T2 is extremely good, though, so I think I still want one in the 75. It is very fast, which makes it much better against decks like Valakut and Tron, compared to BB. Similarly, despite Last Hope's relative anti-synergy in this build, she is so good against small-creature decks that I want to keep playing one for now. Shizo, Death's Storehouse seems like it might be too cute; it gets Gids through chumps, but weakens me to Blood Moon. Tonight it wasn't relevant. I'll try it for a little while longer before making up my mind.
I think most BW planeswalker deck lists I see are making a few mistakes. First, I think most players are running too many 2-drop dig spells (Wall of Omens, Night's Whisper) and too few threats. Drawing a Whisper off of a Whisper is kind of just spinning your wheels. Second, I think that there is very little room for 5-drop spells, and no room for 6-drop spells, in the current fast meta--it puts too much pressure on your hand disruption and board control, when you are likely to play those expensive spells well behind curve. (However I suppose that if you want to make Elspeth, Sun's Champion a thing in your 24-land build, then you'll probably need a lot of dig.) Third, it makes zero sense not to run Path to Exile. Why wouldn't you run Path?
Super-fun deck, feels very powerful. 10/10 would recommend!
I agree 100% with what deaddrift said about the 2 mana draw spells and my new lists mirrors that.
This list went 3-2 but the last 3 games were 3-0 and felt strong, the first 2 losses I don't remember well they were over a week ago but I remember not getting good draws/openers. I like the new planeswalker suite because both 5's kill something or give you a strong advantage, I am starting to like Liliana the last hope as just a nice combo with fulminator out of the board and inevitability like deaddrift said. No thought about any changes going forward, obviously no decks perfect if anyone has any suggestions I'm open ears.
I went 3-1 on Monday, with the same list as in post #23.
R1, 2-1 vs. Mardu Tokens/Reveler: Pretty sure this guy was running a list that has 5-0'ed on MTGO several times this year, but it didn't seem that great of a deck to me. I put him on no Moons in his build after seeing him fetch only duals, but the online list I'm thinking of runs one Moon main and two more in the side. Maybe he doesn't have them or maybe just didn't draw them, but I did not try to play around the card in this match. Anyway, I started on the draw, and he ran me over in G1 as I flooded and failed to draw a sweeper. But in G2 and G3 an early Bitterblossom proved to be an overwhelming advantage. Faerie Rogues were instrumental in preventing me from dying to Stormbreath Dragon in both games. That card is otherwise extremely difficult for a BW deck to beat, as only Lili or sweepers will get rid of it, and it can't be chumped by Spirits.
R2, 2-0 vs. UB Midrange/Control: Another player with a UB Goodstuff deck featuring some Faeries, cantrips, counters, and Delve threats. I won the roll. A T2 BB won me another game in G1 of this match, while in G2, Shizo allowed me to connect through flashed-in Spellstutter Sprite chumps. Liliana of the Veil also controlled his hand and board well for a quick victory.
R3, 1-2 vs. Abzan: Won the roll but lost G1 to a lot of self-damage from Caves of Koilos, Thoughtseize, and BB, and more damage from two huge Goyfs for which I had no removal. In G2 I won off of Ally tokens plus Gideon beats, although I held off on attacking with Gideon after he began clearly telegraphing an in-hand Path to Exile. Finally in G3 I fell to his T2 LotV powered out by a Hierarch, which was backed up by many Spirit tokens and a Pithing Needle which neutered my Liliana, the Last Hope. Heart of Kiran is pretty bad against BGx decks, but probably not as bad as hand disruption is. I always side out all of my targeted hand disruption in these BGx matches.
R4, 2-0 vs. Abzan: Won the roll and had an easy G1 while my opponent flooded hard. In G2 he had a bad keep and whiffed on land draws. Don't have much in the way of notes for this match, and it was over quickly.
Thoughts:Bitterblossom has been an absolute house for me. It is quite slow and damaging to the life total, but like the walkers it is a difficult-to-remove permanent that fits the curve and the overall deck idea perfectly. However I have never wanted to play a second one out, so I'm reluctant to add a third to the 75.
Conversely, Heart of Kiran is only good with a walker in play, so sometimes it's a do-nothing, similar to the drawback of Equipment in a deck. It is also the only card in the 75 that Fatal Push or Terminate are good against. So maybe in a meta with a heavy BGx or Grixis presence it should be replaced by something else. On the other hand, 2-drop threats are tough to come by in BW decks, especially 2-drops that apply a fast clock. And I have also found, through lots of BW midrange play over the past couple years, that a deck like this needs a certain minimum threat density or it can flounder in the mid- to late-game. So I will continue running a single copy for now. Maybe a second Night's Whisper could replace it as a way to dig for threats--but that is also a plan that will lead to a slower game against Affinity or Tron, where a flying 4/4 is just what the doctor ordered.
I have now played this deck to a 35-15-1 record across all versions. Discounting my first tournament attempt, which led to the most dramatic changes so far, I'm 33-11-1. That is not too shabby for most players, and it's excellent for me, even if it's only at the FNM level. Of the decks I've faced, the only truly unfavorable matchup has been against Valakut decks, which has been true of every midrange deck I've ever played. It's likely that Gideon of the Trials, Fulminator Mage, hand disruption, and Surgical Extraction could be used more effectively in this match than I've done so far, though. For instance, it's probably right to save a Thoughtseize in the opening hand for T4-5 to try to pick off a Titan or Scapeshift, rather than trying to curve out and only nabbing an easily-replaced Explore, as I've often done in the past. Even Inquisition might be better played late in some cases; if they Summoner's Pact in response to an Inquisition, an in-hand Thoughtseize could take the Titan or Woodfall Primus they fetch up.
4-1 tonight, same list but -1 Caves of Koilos for +1 Courtyard. Thinking maybe the Caves and the Chapel could both go for a couple more off-color fetches to improve the odds against Blood Moon and strengthen Fatal Push. Like maybe one Polluted Delta and one Flooded Strand. Doing it that way would keep me at my current numbers for T1 and T3 mana availability.
R1, 0-2 vs. 8-Rack: I mulled to 6 on the draw in G1 but never landed anything relevant; in G2 he had 2x The Rack plus a Shrieking Affliction by T4 after taking my opening Disenchant. I died real fast, missing SB Ratchet Bombs, which I have played a lot in BW decks. But they're terrible in the walkers build.
R2, 2-0 vs. Mono-U Umbral Mantle/Polymorph Combo: I was on the draw. This guy's deck looked to land Umbral Mantle after playing out an early Training Grounds. Then it can make an arbitrarily large Blinkmoth Nexus or do some other stuff with Inkmoth Nexus and Faerie Conclave. He also played a Polymorph (presumably for Emrakul) line as a back-up win con I guess? But I happened to draw all the Pushes and Paths and Ghost Quarters, and killed his guy in response to the equip cost every time he tried to set up the combo. Disruption was great, but this was luck mostly. I wasn't sure what he was up to and I drew like a god, just figured jank like that had to be some kind of combo I didn't want to allow to go off. I had two very easy games as I controlled his board at will.
R3, 2-0 vs. Grixis Death's Shadow: Lost the roll again. In G2 I had to slow roll around two Stubborn Denial but Lingering Souls managed to chump just long enough for me to start landing Lilis and Gids. Once I had a couple of walkers out he was not able to regain any advantage. In G2 I cleaned him up easily but forgot to take notes and don't recall what happened. GDS feels like an easy match to me; I really like Rest in Peace in this match.
R4, 2-1 vs. Boros Burn: Won the roll for the first time tonight. But then I kept a terrible hand in the dark with four lands, a Thoughtseize, a Bitterblossom, and a Wrath. I managed to put up a fight but he finished me off with a Shrine of Burning Rage. In G2, a pair of Gideons were too much for him, allowing me to win at -2 life. In G3 he windmill slammed an Ensnaring Bridge on T3... but I already had a Disenchant in hand, because of Shrine in G1. So I shrugged, developed my board state with Gideons for a couple turns, and then wiped out his Bridge and killed him quickly. TBH I would bring in Disenchant in this match anyway for Eidolon of the Great Revel because I have so much to side out; I also side in Fulminator, because taking Burn off W is very good and often surprisingly easy.
R5, 2-1 vs. RG Titanshift: Definitely got lucky in this match. I kept a BB in my opener in this match too, again going deep on a terrible card for the pairing I ended up facing. I was on the draw, and got Primetime'd fast in G1. In G2 my opponent, who was new to the deck, missed a Summoner's Pact trigger and I called him on it. In G3 I was lucky to be at 18 when he cast Scapeshift with seven lands in play, while I had a Ghost Quarter live; if you blow up one of the six Mountains in response to the group ETB trigger (do NOT hit the Valakut!) then only the land hit by GQ will trigger the Valakut. The other five Mountains will not. (More here.) I also ran him out of Mountains by nerfing Valakut with Gideon to stall, and also Pathing a Titan. Careful T4-5 use of Thoughtseize, IoK, and Brutality were very important in preventing a loss, but I also got very lucky in my opponent's unfamiliarity with his own deck. He's not likely to make the same mistakes again, I'd wager. Titanshift and Valakut decks in general are high among this deck's very hardest matches, in my experience. Leyline would help a lot, but I feel like I'd be losing points against the field by cutting anything from the side. The is a hope-to-dodge for me.
Sorry, had not posted in a while. Have not been able to goto some events in about a week.
Was at one last night and my results was a little disappointing just because I seen Eldrazi Tron 3 times.
R1: 2-0 vs. Affinity
R2: 0-2 vs. Eldrazi Tron
R3: 1-2 vs. Eldrazi Tron
R4: 2-1 vs. Mono Green Stompy
R5: 0-2 vs. Eldrazi Tron
R6: 2-1 vs. Mono White Death and Taxes agro
After everything was done I knew one of the Eldrazi Tron players we we played a few more games for fun, and I lost 2-0 Eldrazi Tron again in a fun game.
It is kind of frustrating because I know this deck is good. But is I have no game vs Eldrazi Tron then.... Man, I don't know what I'm going to play in GP Oklahoma in a few weeks.
4x Marsh Flats
4x Godless Shrine
4x Concealed Courtyard
4x Shambling Vent
3x Ghost Quarter
2x Plains
2x Swamp
Planeswalker (14)
4x Gideon of the Trials
3x Liliana of the Veil
3x Liliana, the Last Hope
3x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1x Gideon Jura
4x Lingering Souls
3x Thoughtseize
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Damnation
1x Collective Brutality
Instant (7)
4x Path to Exile
3x Fatal Push
Artifact (3)
3x Heart of Kiran
3x Leyline of Sanctity
3x Stony Silence
3x Rest in Peace
3x Ratchet Bomb
1x Flaying Tendrils
1x Thoughtseize
1x Collective Brutality
The sideboard may need some serious changes, since I have no idea as yet how this deck will play out in actuality. Hoping to use MTGS to tune this idea to its fullest extent with the help of the community.
Round 1: Lost the die roll, then lost 0-2 to Sun and Moon--got T1 Blood Moon'ed on the draw G1 and then mulled to 5 to find a Thoughtseize and two Marsh Flats in G2, only for him to T0 a Leyline of Sanctity and then beat me down while I whiffed on more lands. I made a mistake thinking that a late Leyline of my own would protect me from Chandra, Torch of Defiance's +1. It doesn't target.
Round 2: Lost the die roll and then lost 0-2 to RG Ponza--Stormbreath Dragon lines up preeeetty well against Path, Push, and Spirit tokens . I played G2 extremely well, using my Gids to bait out both Inferno Titans and the one Stormbreath I saw in his opener, only to get them all with Damnation and leaving him with no cards in hand and me with two Souls to flash back the following turn. However I was left at 8 life by then, so naturally he immediately topdecked another Stormbreath.
Round 3: Lost the roll and then lost 0-2 to Lantern Control and his T1 Lantern of Insight. Lantern allowed him to keep me off my mana after keeping a hand with only one dual but THREE Gideon of the Trials. A shaky keep to be sure, but since I knew what my opponent was on I think it may have been justifiable. Naturally he milled every land I would have drawn. In G2 I landed a Leyline and a Stony but his triple Ensnaring Bridge and my Extracted Ghost Quarters meant I was dead to the Academy Ruins library-refilling mill lock. However he ceded to me since he figured he was already out of prizes, so I marked that as a win for the record and soldiered on, looking for a non-prison match pairing. I should have brought in Rest in Peace here, but didn't.
Round 4: Lost the roll to Eternal Command but took the match 2-0. In G1 he got an endless Eternal Witness/Cryptic Command loop using Aether Vial to tap my team each turn, bouncing his Witness, but eventually I drew into enough threats to force him to counter instead of bounce, allowing me to swing in. Dual Gideons were very good here. In G2 my hand disruption allowed my Wraths to push through counterspells, clearing the board for Gids to beat face.
Round 5: Lost the roll to Merfolk and destroyed him with sweepers, targeted removal, walkers, and Heart of Kiran. 2-0.
Round 6: Lost the roll and G1 to BW Eldrazi (aka my pet deck) via many, many Spirit tokens. No sweepers to be found for me. Sided in Leyline and Tendrils for G2-3 and took G2 with my own Spirit token army, playing around his two in-hand Wasteland Stranglers to preserve my Heart, which would die in his second main if it blocked a token in combat. One Damnation cleared the way forward for me in this game. A T0 Leyline did lots of work for me in G3, but again my failure to draw any of my four sweepers meant his Spirit tokens overran me with Smasher backup in turns for the loss, with and official record of 3-3.
Extremely bad die rolls, very unfortunate pairings in the early rounds, some key mistakes, and card draw variance against me were all making things hard all day. However I wonder what changes might be worth investigating going forward. My ideas:
4x Marsh Flats
4x Godless Shrine
4x Concealed Courtyard
3x Shambling Vent
2x Ghost Quarter
2x Plains
2x Swamp
1x Fetid Heath
1x Isolated Chapel
Planeswalker (14)
4x Gideon of the Trials
4x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
3x Liliana of the Veil
3x Liliana, the Last Hope
4x Lingering Souls
3x Thoughtseize
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Wrath of God
1x Damnation
1x Collective Brutality
Instant (6)
3x Path to Exile
3x Fatal Push
Artifact (3)
3x Heart of Kiran
3x Fulminator Mage
3x Stony Silence
3x Rest in Peace
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Disenchant
1x Collective Brutality
1x Thoughtseize
Extraction helps clean out problems sent to the yard by hand disruption or land destruction. The latter is now bolstered by 3x Fulminator Mage in the side, despite losing one GQ main to make room for a BW dual. Gonna try it like this for a night or two and see what it can do.
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
3 Plains
4 Shambling Vent
3 Swamp
4 Tectonic Edge
Creature (3)
3 Wall of Omens
Instant (6)
4 Fatal Push
2 Path to Exile
Sorcery (18)
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Collective Brutality
4 Night's Whisper
3 Lingering Souls
2 Damnation
1 Wrath of God
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Gideon of the Trials
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Gideon Jura
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Disenchant
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Obzedat, Ghost Council
2 Pithing Needle
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Timely Reinforcements
I'm 9-2 so far. Losses to Titanshift and Burn. Wins againt Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund Death's Shadow, Burn, Mill, Abzan, Soul Sisters, some artifact deck... The deck is pretty consistently good.
4x Marsh Flats
4x Godless Shrine
4x Concealed Courtyard
3x Shambling Vent
2x Plains
2x Swamp
2x Ghost Quarter
1x Isolated Chapel
1x Fetid Heath
Planeswalker (13)
4x Gideon of the Trials
3x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
3x Liliana of the Veil
3x Liliana, the Last Hope
4x Lingering Souls
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Thoughtseize
2x Wrath of God
1x Damnation
1x Collective Brutality
Instant (6)
3x Path to Exile
3x Fatal Push
Artifact (2)
2x Heart of Kiran
Creature (2)
2x Wall of Omens
3x Fulminator Mage
3x Stony Silence
3x Rest in Peace
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Disenchant
1x Collective Brutality
1x Thoughtseize
This deck is quite fun and actually plays out with a lot of game, more than a gimmick deck for sure. Too early to tell how it fares against an open meta, but it seems to be fitting the classic midrange mold of being weak to big mana (Tron, Valakut decks) while being pretty evenly-matched against much of the rest of the field. Resolved planeswalkers are quite hard for opponents to deal with, in general, and draw a lot of heat away from me in most games.
There is a ton of hand disruption (especially post-board) and removal to help with control, combo, and aggro. There is a lot of the best land, artifact and graveyard hate in the sideboard as well. A likely change to the SB that I'm considering right now is -1 Disenchant for +1 Anguished Unmaking, which would answer Karn, Ulamog, and Wurmcoil from Eldrazi Tron.
Would love to hear from others exploring similar ideas. Thanks for reading.
I was 0-2-1 drop on Friday but 4-0 yesterday at my LGS with the last posted build. Having played a bunch with Sorin SV, I'd disagree; it's important that a walker's plus in this deck protects it, even on an otherwise empty board. (Though LotV is so good that she's an exception.) Visitor turns out to be kind of a win-more card in a non-tokens shell, in my experience. Sorin, LoI is better, but for 4 mana I want more than he offers. Lifelink does not seem super relevant in a deck where my life total tends to stay so high in most matches.
LtLH still has a weak -2 almost all of the time, but her plus demands that opponents take it seriously, because they literally cannot win if she ults. In this respect she draws attention from my other threats, while offering a serious (if slow) threat herself. She also complements LotV extremely well, and her plus acts as another minor fog or removal spell of sorts. For now I'll continue to give her some deck space. Hey, good luck! Personally I think you may find that Urborg and Vault could be better as other choices. Vault could be great backup for a swinging Gideon, but I'm not sure I see a role for Urborg in a deck with such heavy WW needs. I have been extremely pleased with my high WB manabase build, and I like what Fetid Heath does for my fetches and basics. I NEVER have problems with T3 colors.
My only match against Storm so far went to me in two games after some bad luck by my opponent plus lots of discard and removal from my side of the table. Runed Halo seems quite good against Storm and Valakut, but will soon no longer protect our Gideons from these cards, even if it continues to protect us from them. (Same for Leyline.)
I was kind of excited to find this thread when looking around to maybe get some good ideas and feed back.
I am going to GP Oklahoma City in about a 6 weeks, and since I have been playing around with this for a while I'm leaning to use this deck.
I seen that Frank Lepore put up a video of some games with his list. www.channelfireball.com/videos/modern-monday-bw-control
And then seen this list go 5-0 on MTGO yesterday. www.decks.tcgplayer.com/magic/modern/inspectorgadget/w-b-control/1294945
I put together a list last night and played online.
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Gideon Jura
2 Gideon of the Trials
3 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 Collective Brutality
3 Damnation
1 1 Wrath of God
4 Fatal Push
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Lingering Souls
3 Night's Whisper
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Thoughtseize
2 Fetid Heath
3 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
3 Plains
3 Shambling Vent
3 Swamp
4 Tectonic Edge
1 Anguished Unmaking
2 Collective Brutality
1 Disenchant
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Fulminator Mage
3 Leyline of the Void
3 Stony Silence
I thought to use/try out the Thalia's Lancers because of the new legend rule it is a 4/4 FirstStrike AND a tutor for any Plainswalker you need at the time.
2-1 vs. a Blue based Affinity deck
2-1 vs. normal Affinity
2-1 vs. Grixis Death's Shadow
2-1 vs. Mono White Death and Taxes
2-0 vs. Green/White Todd Stephens Good Stuff deck.
So I felt really good about the deck. I think the Thalia's lancers and Ob Nixilis Reignited was MVP's every time they showed up.
Let me know what you guys think. Lets keep the discussion going.
2-0 Green Black delirium deck trying to cast Emrakul, the Promised End it was a home brew but was able to get around it.
0-2 Eldrazi Tron: I need to find better sideboard for this deck. I played well. But Eldrazi Tron is really good.
1-2 Mono Red Goblins: 1 game I drew 2 lands and nothing else and he over powered me. 2nd game I had my way with him. 3rd game I drew all none basic lands, no basics, no fetch lands to get a basic, and he played Blood Moon and shut me down so hard. I could not believe it.
2-0 Affinity
Really think I just to work on the sideboard at this point.
4x Marsh Flats
4x Godless Shrine
4x Concealed Courtyard
3x Shambling Vent
2x Plains
2x Swamp
2x Ghost Quarter
1x Isolated Chapel
1x Fetid Heath
Planeswalker (12)
4x Gideon of the Trials
3x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
3x Liliana of the Veil
2x Liliana, the Last Hope
4x Lingering Souls
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Thoughtseize
2x Wrath of God
1x Damnation
1x Night's Whisper
1x Collective Brutality
Instant (6)
3x Path to Exile
3x Fatal Push
Artifact (2)
2x Heart of Kiran
Creature (2)
2x Wall of Omens
3x Fulminator Mage
3x Stony Silence
3x Rest in Peace
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Disenchant
1x Anguished Unmaking
1x Collective Brutality
1x Thoughtseize
I kinda wish I could call this deck "BW Hatef&%k" but my friend correctly points out that sexualizing the game is inherently not right, and there's an unforeseen but undeniable and unfortunate racial angle too, so... here's a play report and we won't speak of this again.
R1, 2-0 vs. Naya KoTR: Won the roll and had easy beats against a goodstuff deck playing Bolt and Goyf but no Retreat, no Kiki/Resto, no Nahiri. Won as usual with onesided board wipes, disruption, and Gideons. Don't remember much.
R2, 0-2 vs. Bant Eldrazi: Won the roll and kept a 7 in G1 with two lands--but didn't draw the third land (a Vent) til T4 and then the 4th (a Courtyard) on T6, dying to a huge Displacer/Drowner army with two Wraths in hand. In G2 he got an early Displacer/Drowner package again after TKS-ing my only wrath effect. Matchup seems like it would be fine with a little less variance--kinda drew the wrong half of my deck, as one does sometimes.
R3, 2-0 vs. Esper Mill: Won the roll. Gideon's Ult (plus LtLH's ult) won G1 for me with zero cards left in my deck at the beginning of my last turn; in G2 I threw Gideons at him while ignoring his Ashiok who exiled zero creatures of course. I sided in four more cards than I sided out in this match, and won G2 with 6 cards left in the deck. This was one of those matchups where Gids' emblem was essentially unanswerable for my opponent. In both games I took an early Hero's Downfall before beginning my evil T3 plan, which was obviously super relevant.
R4, 2-0 vs. Ad Nauseam: Won the roll again. In both games I destroyed his hand with all the Thoughtseizes and Lilis. He wouldn't have had it in G1, but he also didn't know to mull for Leyline in G2, being kind of new, so hand disruption just wrecked him twice. I really got lucky with all the targeted hand hate actually and it wasn't fun for him. Always bring in Stony Silence in this match.
R5, 2-1 vs. GW Hatebears: Lost the roll, but won G1 with lots of hand disruption plus both Lilis. Having played Path and Ghost Quarter for years, few things please me more than a hatebears player tapping out for a T2 Leonin Arbiter. Sometimes I can cripple a player who does this, as I had actually done to him earlier in the night, when we played for fun. But when I tried it in G2 this time he had plenty of lands in hand, and overran me as I whiffed on boardwipes. However, in G3 I got all four of his Loxodon Smiters (plus some assorted miscellany) with two Wraths, which was backbreaking on top of the usual walker beats.
Deck really feels right, gotta say. The card advantage aspect of having so many walkers--each of which represents a free spell every turn--plus the difficulty for opponents in removing them, really makes the deck resilient in a lot of ways. Gideon of the Trials provides weird free wins, and both Gids beat down like nobody's business, especially when backed up by Heart of Kiran. The whole one-sided boardwipe thing is extremely good, making three Wrath effects feel like the low-end number, maybe. There is a ton of combo hate, with a playset of Thoughtseize (plus two Brutality) postboard to strengthen the important disruption plan.
Now, I'm the first to admit my weird fetish for and bias towards Orzhov decks; but the whole thing just feels like a possibly-viable midrange strategy in the current meta. I'll keep running it for now, anyway.
R1, 2-0 vs. Dredge: mulled to 5 on the play after winning the die roll, and kept a hand with T1 Thoughtseize, which took his T1 Looting and shut down his engine hard in opening turns. I got a Hug next while he was still stuck on one land, and then was able to race him with Heart, Trials, and a Shambling Vent for the win. In G2 I mulled to 6 but kept an opener with Extraction in hand and a RiP on the top for my scry. RiP got blown up pretty quickly but still slowed him down effectively, and then a pair of Gids plus Vent swung through for the win. My life total never dipped below 15 in this match.
R2, 2-0 vs. Grixis Death's Shadow: Won the roll again (I was lucky with this all day today) and had my hand torn up by 3x Thoughtseize from my opponent, but a pair of Lingering Souls plus LotV grinded him out very effectively. In G2 I brought in RiP again, turning off Snapcaster and Delve shenanigans. We both landed a LotV; but my -2 was much, much more effective in this match than his, since most of my creatures aren't creatures at all, most of the time. He never hit me at all, getting distracted by my walkers, and my life never dropped below 20 during this match.
R3, 2-1 vs. UW Emeria Titan: Won the roll again, mulled to 5, and lost G1 to a swarm of annoying white crap like Flickerwisp, Blade Splicer, and Lone Missionary, while I failed to draw land #4 for the Damnation I was holding. In G2 Trials, Heart, and LotV got me there with further RiP backup; while in G3 my win came again from Trials, Heart, and RiP. In G1 I dropped as low as 17 life , but in G3 he put up some resistance, getting me all the way to 12 life before I cleaned him up.
R4, 2-0 vs. Grixis DS: won the roll again, and outvalued him with lots of removal, Trials, and 2x Souls. In G2 Trials and LtLH combined to fog his big guys and ping away his Snapcasters, while RiP kept his value plan shut down again. I dropped to 12 life in G1 and to 16 in G2.
No question that 3x Rest in Peace (backed up by 2x Extraction) were the all stars today, coming in for every post-board game. Winning the die roll each time made things easier for sure, but when an employee asked later which matchups felt bad, I was unable to think of any. So far I've felt very well positioned in each contest I've faced with the 2x Heart, 2x Wall, 2x Last Hope version of the deck. Eldrazi Tron I have played a lot, and don't feel bad about that match at all, though a nuts draw from them can lead to an early Chalice on 3, which is very good against me. Titanshift/Breach Titan might be pretty tough I'd imagine--it usually is, for BW midrange decks, in my experience--but I have yet to face that deck.
Another card to consider in this build is Bitterblossom, which fits ideally into the curve, pumps out disposable flying chumps every turn, and won't kill us as long as we have an emblem and a Gids on deck. (My life total is staying high in almost all games anyway.) I won't be running it right away unless I can convince myself it's a better choice than the cards I'm already winning with. But it's worth adding to the maybe pile for sure.
Not missing Jura in my deck at all, and in fact, getting to 5 mana in a timely manner does not seem guaranteed in my 23 land build. For the same reason, I win't be trying Ob Nixilis Reignited right now; despite the obvious late-game power, it is too steep a cost for me in a deck that doesn't actually seem to actually need it.
@deaddrift I love how your doing good with the deck. Have you played vs. Eldrazi Tron? What are your match ups like on it? I see you lost to Bant Eldrazi but looks like you got screwed on it.
1. I think Leyline of Sanctity is too narrow; Ad Nauseam can still kill you with Laboratory Maniac (not if you also ult Trials though), Storm can still kill you with Empty the Warrens, Titan/Valakut decks can still kill you with Titan or Woodfall Primus beats, and this deck doesn't really care that much about opposing hand disruption from say Abzan. Leyline is good against Burn, but Trials is already very good against Burn, if you run four and if you also have a few copies of Ally in the deck. Both little Gids are amazing and I'm certain it's correct to run at least three of each. The other problem with Leyline is the whole opening-hand thing, where it can encourage you to mull away otherwise powerful hands if you don't have it, or where you might be tempted to keep a shaky hand because of it. You may find that it comes down too late (in a Burn match) to do any good if it's not in your opener. Added to that, is that MaRo says it soon won't protect the walkers any more, and I think the card is a miss for our deck. (On a side note, Burn is the reason I'm also staying away from Bitterblossom right now.)
2. Having a solid mana base for the deck is crucial. I never want to miss a powerful T3 play. So I intentionally set up my land package to check all the boxes that Frank Karsten sets out in these two extremely valuable articles:
3. I am convinced that this deck absolutely wants two Heart of Kiran. It does turn on Fatal Push (and Terminate), but we are already strongly favored against Grixis Death's Shadow. And if it eats a Path or a Dismember, then it just saved a Gideon! It speeds up the clock by a ton, since it can swing for four--in the air, and remaining live for defense due to vigilance--on T3, and usually each turn thereafter. Since I run nine 3-drop walkers, I swing on T3 with it almost every game where I play it on T2. Like the rest of the threats, it survives sorcery-speed board wipes on both sides. Heart is amazing against Affinity. Play Heart! You'll love it! (Mulitples in hand suck though, so three was too many for me.)
4. Playing against Eldrazi Tron (haven't played vs. Gx Tron with this deck): Heart helps a lot, since you absolutely want a fast clock that can swing over a clogged-up ground battle. You want Thoughtseize over Inquisition, and Brutality is bad. Our beaters actually line up pretty favorably against theirs, especially Ally (or Jura). Trials is great at nerfing their threats and LotV can strip their hand and eliminate threats through a Chalice. If they get Chalice on 3 we're in for a bad time, though. If you get a boardwipe and dodge their All is Dust then you're usually in pretty good shape.
There's more to side in than out, sadly. Here's my usual siding strategy:
R1, 2-1 vs. Eldrazi Tron: Kept seven on the play and had a completely dominant board state until he Dusted me. However, after keeping 6, I won G2 with two Fulminator Mage out of the the side and a LoTV ult to keep him off mana. Then I won G3 with a lot of hand disruption, another LotV, and a LtLH ult.
R2, 2-0 vs. Grixis Faeries: Kept 7 on the play against a friend who helped me craft this deck, winning G1 as he failed to draw a red source for his in-hand Bolts and K Command. Then in G2 I just overwhelmed him with Gideons through a Blood Moon. He couldn't counter my 3+ CMC spells with Spellstutter Sprite since he would have needed an all-in Faeries build to have that kind of critical mass for higher-CMC counters.
R3, 1-2 vs. UR Twinless Twin: I won the roll this time too. This fella had Kiki plus Deceiver Exarch and Pestermite; he got me both post-board games when he tapped down a Plains and left me with a Revolt-less Push in hand. These were good games, and well-played on both sides, but he was able to combo off when I didn't draw my outs.
R4, 2-0 vs. Grixis Midrange: Won the roll AGAIN. I am now on a 12 for 13 streak on die rolls--still, considering I lost the roll something like 16 times in a row in my early trials with the deck, I don't feel too lucky. But maybe I am, because my opponent mana-starved, double scrying to the bottom off Serum Visons on both his T1s, and then missing subsequent land drops for a turn or two each game. Still, URx decks seem pretty favorable for this build in general, and I'm not having too much trouble against these decks, even when they do have the mana they need.
I am now 26-12-1 in matches across all versions of this deck. I'm 24-8-1 since I made significant changes to the sideboard and added 2x Wall of Omens to the main. I am not a very talented player, and I've been mostly lucky with die rolls. I only play on paper, mostly at the FNM level. Still, I think this deck is actually quite good, for real.
Probably I will add in one Shizo, Death's Storehouse to speed up games through chump blocks. This will make me worse to Moon, since Shizo will have to replace a Swamp. But I have decided that I want to be playing to get WW in a Moon matchup anyway. It seems pretty unlikely that I could get both Plains and both Swamps in play under a Moon; so if I have to choose, I'll go for the color that gets me Path, Disenchant, the first half of Souls, and either Gideon, before I go for Lilis or Damnation, which are my only BB spells.
I've been mulling over the Bitterblossom angle in my head a lot, today. I wonder if a Gideon of the Trials deck with 3-4 BB might not just be strictly better than what I've been trying. If we emblem little Gids, how do we even lose? Plusing little Gids each turn while building up an army of faeries seems legitimately near-unbeatable. Such a deck would still play Lingering Souls, I imagine, but would probably replace several of the Lilis with 2-3 Sorin, Solemn Visitor. I think you still run Ally, to keep the little Gids emblem alive, farm out more tokens, and pump our own tokens with his +1/+1 emblem. Then, maybe we swap out one or more Wraths with Zealous Persecution. I think that approach is probably more inevitable, though likely to be slower.
My real problem is that I really just don't want to play a heavy tokens deck; it's where I started in Modern, and I've never been anxious to go back to it. Kind of bummed thinking about the idea that the possibly-best version of my sweet new deck doesn't actually sound like much fun to play, to me.
I will report back on how they do.
1-2 tonight in a small tourney of 8 players. I added a single Shizo but never drew it. Both tonight and Monday I had a startling number of mulls due to one- or zero-land hands. Made me feel like I was shuffling wrong or something, since it kept happening.
R1, 1-2 vs. Affinity: Kept five on the draw with no removal and got run over by Cranial Plating. In G2 I landed Stony and had a lot of removal, but in G3 again I was a little too slow, keeping a two-lander and whiffing on land draws on turns 1-4.
R2, 2-0 vs. Jund Death's Shadow: We both mulled to six and I kept a good opener with Heart, Trials, an IoK and three lands. He kept a hand full of air and I quickly dispatched him. G2 went to me as well as LotV tore his hand apart and easily dealt with his few creatures.
R3, 1-2 vs. UG Infect: Kept five on the draw with no removal again, and got hit by a T3 kill on a nuts draw. In G2 I easily controlled his board and hand. In G3 I made an early mistake and Path'ed a Glistener Elf on his EOT after keeping six due to ANOTHER zero-land opener; I had a Brutality in hand and another on top from the scry, but they were never able to deal with his two Inkmoth Nexus, which slowly chewed through all four Spirits from my one Souls as they were backed up by Pendlehaven. I flooded hard, finally catching up on all my earlier missing lands, and never drew a second Path, or Push, or Ghost Quarter, or Trials. I sided wrong here; should have brought in Fulminator Mage, replacing sweepers and some copies of Ally.
The repeated mana screw in my opening seven has me wanting to go to 61 cards total, keeping both Swamps and just adding the Shizo. Not too sure that's actually a good idea though. I'm also going to replace one (maybe two) Concealed Courtyard with Caves of Koilos since I have lost several games with in-hand sweepers that I died without casting after topdecking an ETB-tapped land on a crucial turn. Affinity has me wanting to run Bontu's Last Reckoning or maybe Settle the Wreckage as well, but I'll hold off on those for now.
My deck,
4 Concealed Courtyard
1 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
4 Plains
4 Swamp
4 Shambling Vent
3 Field of Ruin
Planeswalkers
2 Gideon of the Trials
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Gideon Jura
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
3 Wall of Omens
Spells
4 Fatal Push
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
1 Collective Brutality
4 Night's Whisper
4 Lingering Souls
2 Damnation
1 Wrath of God
Artifacts
3 Relic of Progenitus
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Celestial Purge
1 Collective Brutality
2 Kor Firewalker
1 Rest in Peace
2 Runed Halo
2 Stony Silence
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Fracturing Gust
My 2 leagues have gone 4-1, and 1-4 in that order
major losses were to UW control, restore balance, eldrazi tron everything else seems pretty evenly matched so far
The cards in the deck im not happy with are elspeth and ob nix, definitely thinking about making them another 3 mana gideon and liliana. Also, making gideon jura into another gideon, ally of zendikar seems in my mind to be stronger as well.
The maindeck relics were very strong against the 2 storm decks i beat but i dont know if i still want 3 maindeck going forward. path to exiles would have been very nice to have against the tron decks i lost too.
My question is I dont really know where to go further with this deck atm, i dont like liliana last hope at all, she doesnt strike me as a card that wins the bad match ups. Cutting baneslayer angel is maybe why my eldrazi tron matchup felt weak as that card is probably very good until they all is dust. Im also thinking about dropping to 23 lands because even with the walls and nights whisper I was flooding out a lot.
If anyone has any suggestions to improve this current list let me know! Thanks
[Modern] BW Superfriends, UW Control, E&T
[Pauper] UB Control
[Standard] Sultai Eneergy
My Twitch Account
https://go.twitch.tv/andyboydrobin
OTOH it's an easy two-of side out against those opponents (Rest in Peace is great against all those decks), and I find that it speeds up my clock so greatly that I can't imagine the deck without it. I routinely hit an opponent for four each turn, while still leaving a 4/4 blocker up, starting on T3--and if my Wraths or targeted removal work as intended, it's pretty common to go T3 swing for four/T4 swing for eight/T5 I win.
4x Marsh Flats
4x Godless Shrine
3x Shambling Vent
2x Concealed Courtyard
2x Caves of Koilos
2x Plains
2x Ghost Quarter
1x Isolated Chapel
1x Fetid Heath
1x Swamp
1x Shizo, Death's Storehouse
Planeswalker (11)
4x Gideon of the Trials
3x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
3x Liliana of the Veil
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
4x Lingering Souls
3x Thoughtseize
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Wrath of God
1x Damnation
1x Collective Brutality
1x Night's Whisper
Instant (6)
3x Path to Exile
3x Fatal Push
Creature (2)
2x Wall of Omens
Enchantment (2)
2x Bitterblossom
Artifact (1)
1x Heart of Kiran
3x Fulminator Mage
3x Rest in Peace
2x Stony Silence
2x Disenchant
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Anguished Unmaking
1x Collective Brutality
1x Thoughtseize
R1, 2-0 vs. BW Zombies brew: Won the roll and crushed a new fella. I tried to be nice about it.
R2, 2-0 vs. 8-Rack: I won the roll, but my opponent would have chosen to draw anyway, and did so for G2. In G1 I T1 IoK'ed him on the play, taking his Rack and leaving him a bunch of disruption. A BB topdeck got me there as I played a little draw/go plan for several turns. G2 was similar with an early Heart proving decisive. My opponent also got mana screwed, whiffing on a second Swamp (backed by a Mutavault) for several turns while I smacked him around with Last Hope/Heart beats.
R3, 2-0 vs. Affinity: My opponent was on the play, but kept a very slow five, and I was able to control his board with removal, LtLH, and Trials. In G2 I landed a T2 BB, followed up on T4 and T5 with back-to-back Ally ults, making all my Faeries 3/3s. After that it was easy.
R4, 2-1 vs. GW Vizier/Druid combo: Lost the roll, but I won G1 with disruption and Wrath effects. In G2, he was easily able to combo off for infinite damage. G3 was a real nail biter and I won on turn 4 of time in rounds after sweating my way through using LotV correctly against a board of two Kitchen Finks while I had a Heart in play. Heart's fast clock was the only reason I was able to close this game out. Lots of hand disruption is key in this pairing.
R5, 2-0 vs. UB Midrange/Control: A very good player running his own deck with BB in it, along with Angler, Delver of Secrets, disruption, Chart a Course, and lots of counterspells. I won the roll but mulled to 4 in G1, and then won the game after topdecking a BB on T2 and then a LotV on T4 with three lands in play. I basically visited magical Christmasland for several consecutive draws, and there was nothing he could do to stop me. In G2 I Thoughtseized him, taking his BB, and then next turn landing my own again. I threw various walkers into counterspells while the Fae did their thing.
Thoughts: Two Bitterblossom feels about right, since I don't think we want more than one in play at a time. But three might be better if it continues to over perform like it did tonight. Heart continued to impress me, but unlike BB it is a do-nothing by itself. Being able to land a real threat on T2 is extremely good, though, so I think I still want one in the 75. It is very fast, which makes it much better against decks like Valakut and Tron, compared to BB. Similarly, despite Last Hope's relative anti-synergy in this build, she is so good against small-creature decks that I want to keep playing one for now. Shizo, Death's Storehouse seems like it might be too cute; it gets Gids through chumps, but weakens me to Blood Moon. Tonight it wasn't relevant. I'll try it for a little while longer before making up my mind.
I think most BW planeswalker deck lists I see are making a few mistakes. First, I think most players are running too many 2-drop dig spells (Wall of Omens, Night's Whisper) and too few threats. Drawing a Whisper off of a Whisper is kind of just spinning your wheels. Second, I think that there is very little room for 5-drop spells, and no room for 6-drop spells, in the current fast meta--it puts too much pressure on your hand disruption and board control, when you are likely to play those expensive spells well behind curve. (However I suppose that if you want to make Elspeth, Sun's Champion a thing in your 24-land build, then you'll probably need a lot of dig.) Third, it makes zero sense not to run Path to Exile. Why wouldn't you run Path?
Super-fun deck, feels very powerful. 10/10 would recommend!
This list went 3-2 but the last 3 games were 3-0 and felt strong, the first 2 losses I don't remember well they were over a week ago but I remember not getting good draws/openers. I like the new planeswalker suite because both 5's kill something or give you a strong advantage, I am starting to like Liliana the last hope as just a nice combo with fulminator out of the board and inevitability like deaddrift said. No thought about any changes going forward, obviously no decks perfect if anyone has any suggestions I'm open ears.
My deck,
4 Concealed Courtyard
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
3 Plains
3 Swamp
4 Shambling Vent
2 Field of Ruin
1 Fetid Heath
Planeswalkers (11)
3 Gideon of the Trials
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Gideon Jura
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
3 Wall of Omens
Spells (22)
4 Fatal Push
2 Path to Exile
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
1 Collective Brutality
2 Night's Whisper
4 Lingering Souls
2 Damnation
1 Wrath of God
Artifacts (1)
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Disenchant
1 Collective Brutality
2 Rest in Peace
1 Runed Halo
3 Stony Silence
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Flaying Tendrils
1 Anguished Unmaking
1 Thoughtseize
[Modern] BW Superfriends, UW Control, E&T
[Pauper] UB Control
[Standard] Sultai Eneergy
My Twitch Account
https://go.twitch.tv/andyboydrobin
R1, 2-1 vs. Mardu Tokens/Reveler: Pretty sure this guy was running a list that has 5-0'ed on MTGO several times this year, but it didn't seem that great of a deck to me. I put him on no Moons in his build after seeing him fetch only duals, but the online list I'm thinking of runs one Moon main and two more in the side. Maybe he doesn't have them or maybe just didn't draw them, but I did not try to play around the card in this match. Anyway, I started on the draw, and he ran me over in G1 as I flooded and failed to draw a sweeper. But in G2 and G3 an early Bitterblossom proved to be an overwhelming advantage. Faerie Rogues were instrumental in preventing me from dying to Stormbreath Dragon in both games. That card is otherwise extremely difficult for a BW deck to beat, as only Lili or sweepers will get rid of it, and it can't be chumped by Spirits.
R2, 2-0 vs. UB Midrange/Control: Another player with a UB Goodstuff deck featuring some Faeries, cantrips, counters, and Delve threats. I won the roll. A T2 BB won me another game in G1 of this match, while in G2, Shizo allowed me to connect through flashed-in Spellstutter Sprite chumps. Liliana of the Veil also controlled his hand and board well for a quick victory.
R3, 1-2 vs. Abzan: Won the roll but lost G1 to a lot of self-damage from Caves of Koilos, Thoughtseize, and BB, and more damage from two huge Goyfs for which I had no removal. In G2 I won off of Ally tokens plus Gideon beats, although I held off on attacking with Gideon after he began clearly telegraphing an in-hand Path to Exile. Finally in G3 I fell to his T2 LotV powered out by a Hierarch, which was backed up by many Spirit tokens and a Pithing Needle which neutered my Liliana, the Last Hope. Heart of Kiran is pretty bad against BGx decks, but probably not as bad as hand disruption is. I always side out all of my targeted hand disruption in these BGx matches.
R4, 2-0 vs. Abzan: Won the roll and had an easy G1 while my opponent flooded hard. In G2 he had a bad keep and whiffed on land draws. Don't have much in the way of notes for this match, and it was over quickly.
Thoughts: Bitterblossom has been an absolute house for me. It is quite slow and damaging to the life total, but like the walkers it is a difficult-to-remove permanent that fits the curve and the overall deck idea perfectly. However I have never wanted to play a second one out, so I'm reluctant to add a third to the 75.
Conversely, Heart of Kiran is only good with a walker in play, so sometimes it's a do-nothing, similar to the drawback of Equipment in a deck. It is also the only card in the 75 that Fatal Push or Terminate are good against. So maybe in a meta with a heavy BGx or Grixis presence it should be replaced by something else. On the other hand, 2-drop threats are tough to come by in BW decks, especially 2-drops that apply a fast clock. And I have also found, through lots of BW midrange play over the past couple years, that a deck like this needs a certain minimum threat density or it can flounder in the mid- to late-game. So I will continue running a single copy for now. Maybe a second Night's Whisper could replace it as a way to dig for threats--but that is also a plan that will lead to a slower game against Affinity or Tron, where a flying 4/4 is just what the doctor ordered.
I have now played this deck to a 35-15-1 record across all versions. Discounting my first tournament attempt, which led to the most dramatic changes so far, I'm 33-11-1. That is not too shabby for most players, and it's excellent for me, even if it's only at the FNM level. Of the decks I've faced, the only truly unfavorable matchup has been against Valakut decks, which has been true of every midrange deck I've ever played. It's likely that Gideon of the Trials, Fulminator Mage, hand disruption, and Surgical Extraction could be used more effectively in this match than I've done so far, though. For instance, it's probably right to save a Thoughtseize in the opening hand for T4-5 to try to pick off a Titan or Scapeshift, rather than trying to curve out and only nabbing an easily-replaced Explore, as I've often done in the past. Even Inquisition might be better played late in some cases; if they Summoner's Pact in response to an Inquisition, an in-hand Thoughtseize could take the Titan or Woodfall Primus they fetch up.
R1, 0-2 vs. 8-Rack: I mulled to 6 on the draw in G1 but never landed anything relevant; in G2 he had 2x The Rack plus a Shrieking Affliction by T4 after taking my opening Disenchant. I died real fast, missing SB Ratchet Bombs, which I have played a lot in BW decks. But they're terrible in the walkers build.
R2, 2-0 vs. Mono-U Umbral Mantle/Polymorph Combo: I was on the draw. This guy's deck looked to land Umbral Mantle after playing out an early Training Grounds. Then it can make an arbitrarily large Blinkmoth Nexus or do some other stuff with Inkmoth Nexus and Faerie Conclave. He also played a Polymorph (presumably for Emrakul) line as a back-up win con I guess? But I happened to draw all the Pushes and Paths and Ghost Quarters, and killed his guy in response to the equip cost every time he tried to set up the combo. Disruption was great, but this was luck mostly. I wasn't sure what he was up to and I drew like a god, just figured jank like that had to be some kind of combo I didn't want to allow to go off. I had two very easy games as I controlled his board at will.
R3, 2-0 vs. Grixis Death's Shadow: Lost the roll again. In G2 I had to slow roll around two Stubborn Denial but Lingering Souls managed to chump just long enough for me to start landing Lilis and Gids. Once I had a couple of walkers out he was not able to regain any advantage. In G2 I cleaned him up easily but forgot to take notes and don't recall what happened. GDS feels like an easy match to me; I really like Rest in Peace in this match.
R4, 2-1 vs. Boros Burn: Won the roll for the first time tonight. But then I kept a terrible hand in the dark with four lands, a Thoughtseize, a Bitterblossom, and a Wrath. I managed to put up a fight but he finished me off with a Shrine of Burning Rage. In G2, a pair of Gideons were too much for him, allowing me to win at -2 life. In G3 he windmill slammed an Ensnaring Bridge on T3... but I already had a Disenchant in hand, because of Shrine in G1. So I shrugged, developed my board state with Gideons for a couple turns, and then wiped out his Bridge and killed him quickly. TBH I would bring in Disenchant in this match anyway for Eidolon of the Great Revel because I have so much to side out; I also side in Fulminator, because taking Burn off W is very good and often surprisingly easy.
R5, 2-1 vs. RG Titanshift: Definitely got lucky in this match. I kept a BB in my opener in this match too, again going deep on a terrible card for the pairing I ended up facing. I was on the draw, and got Primetime'd fast in G1. In G2 my opponent, who was new to the deck, missed a Summoner's Pact trigger and I called him on it. In G3 I was lucky to be at 18 when he cast Scapeshift with seven lands in play, while I had a Ghost Quarter live; if you blow up one of the six Mountains in response to the group ETB trigger (do NOT hit the Valakut!) then only the land hit by GQ will trigger the Valakut. The other five Mountains will not. (More here.) I also ran him out of Mountains by nerfing Valakut with Gideon to stall, and also Pathing a Titan. Careful T4-5 use of Thoughtseize, IoK, and Brutality were very important in preventing a loss, but I also got very lucky in my opponent's unfamiliarity with his own deck. He's not likely to make the same mistakes again, I'd wager. Titanshift and Valakut decks in general are high among this deck's very hardest matches, in my experience. Leyline would help a lot, but I feel like I'd be losing points against the field by cutting anything from the side. The is a hope-to-dodge for me.
This deck is solid.
Was at one last night and my results was a little disappointing just because I seen Eldrazi Tron 3 times.
R1: 2-0 vs. Affinity
R2: 0-2 vs. Eldrazi Tron
R3: 1-2 vs. Eldrazi Tron
R4: 2-1 vs. Mono Green Stompy
R5: 0-2 vs. Eldrazi Tron
R6: 2-1 vs. Mono White Death and Taxes agro
After everything was done I knew one of the Eldrazi Tron players we we played a few more games for fun, and I lost 2-0 Eldrazi Tron again in a fun game.
It is kind of frustrating because I know this deck is good. But is I have no game vs Eldrazi Tron then.... Man, I don't know what I'm going to play in GP Oklahoma in a few weeks.
My deck is as follows from last night.
1 Heart of Kiran
1 Gideon Jura
3 Gideon of the Trials
3 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
2 Damnation
1 Day of Judgment
1 Wrath of God
3 Fatal Push
3 Path to Exile
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Lingering Souls
3 Night's Whisper
3 Thoughtseize
3 Godless Shrine
3 Marsh Flats
4 Plains
3 Shambling Vent
4 Swamp
4 Tectonic Edge
1 Collective Brutality
2 Kor Firewalker
3 Rest in Peace
3 Fulminator Mage
3 Leyline of the Void
3 Stony Silence