Can this actually work ?
The number of 3-drops in the deck seems rather high but I haven't found good enough 2-drops to use instead
(maybe Fauna Shaman/Voice/Duskwatch ?).
I was also looking at this combo for modern. I was thinking thopter/sword in the place of most or all of doomsayer. Goes infinite with a mana dork and alarm, curves a little better, and is just fine on its own. And I'd probably go serum visions over oath of nissa, which whiffs on alarm.
I was thinking more of an esper shell with only a slight focus on the combo. Mostly just a BW token deck that happens to combo. Obviously very different than your topic, but close enough to warrant me mentioning it.
@Dennis:
it might work. I would cut the Wisps and Ralliers, as they apparently don't do much for the deck. Not sure about Oath. Commune with the Gods is a very good card here though. I wonder if we could fit another enchantment that would play well with the deck.
I guess you don't want Coco because it plays poorly with the Drifts ? In that case, I think 3xSpell Queller would be a great card to both protect the combo and have game against Delver, Affi, Infect and Lingering Souls decks G1.
@Noct :
Very interesting take and tech !
I would cut Bitterblossom entirely, add a couple Smuggler's Copters, maybe a Sword of Light and Shadow (good vs Push / Path, recurs combo pieces), just to test it out (I think swords are obsolete technolgy in modern but what do I know). Maybe Auriok Champion x2 as it's not so bad in the format and with Copter. Probably Fatal Push over Path since UB are the 2 colors you want on Turn 1.
I'll try your shell and come back with some feedback later.
#At first I wanted to include 4x Serum Visions (which makes sense in a combo deck that plays Blue) but Oath seemed better and more abusable together with other creatures and the fact that it can be found with Commune convinced me to prefer it.
It also should the deck function with only 20x lands which otherwise might be too few (it would still require testing for sure).
#Rallier and Flickerwisp were specifically chosen for their synergy with the other cards in the deck, namely Oath (which is the "other enchantment"). Flickerwisp can occasionally serve as a flying clock (especially with a Noble or two) while playing fairly and has plenty of targets in Rallier/E-Wit/Oath or even (an exerted) Steward. Rallier can back duplicate Oath's, dead Steward/Noble or just ramp with Fetches.
The other card I considered here is Court Hussar for more digging but it seemed weaker in the "fair" plan compared to the other two.
After giving it more thought I'd probably cut the 2x Renegade Rallier to add 2x Birds of Paradise as the deck is chok-full of 3-drops anyway and can use the more consistent mana acceleration.
I want to keep the Flickerwisps for now unless I can find something which would be an obvious improvement for this deck.
Why not add the green spellbomb and forbidden orchard to the mix? That has been around for quite some time and occasionally takes down a tourney.
Only time doomsayers are really good is when you play Spellskite. That way you can instantly drop your life and then get the anthem effect. Remember that you don't have to target a spell that can legally target skite. The ability is just cancelled since it can't change the target of say a deaths shadow or something.
The "Fateful Hour" ability isn't really the point anyway, Thraben is just here for the token making part of the combo.
Forbidden Orchard generates infinite mana but I have no use of it and can't deal with all the tokens it produces anyway.
It is probably a different deck entirely which needs to be built around this interaction.
I'm not sure what Spellbomb interation you're referring to.
I'm offing suggestions since right now it looks like a durdle deck that doesn't do much except in the few games you draw, and resolve an alarm.
Spellskite will protect your combo. Probably needed, and also has another upside since alarm won't always be around. A secondary win condition with doomsayers.
Oath probably isn't needed as it misses the combo pieces you have the least of. I don't think oathing for a drift then cycling the drift for an alarm then casting alarm is really where you want to be in modern.
I'm offing suggestions since right now it looks like a durdle deck that doesn't do much except in the few games you draw, and resolve an alarm.
Spellskite will protect your combo. Probably needed, and also has another upside since alarm won't always be around. A secondary win condition with doomsayers. Oath probably isn't needed as it misses the combo pieces you have the least of. I don't think oathing for a drift then cycling the drift for an alarm then casting alarm is really where you want to be in modern.
What are you suggesting exactly ? Just adding Spellskite ?
Oath is just a good cantrip here that helps hit land-drops and find creatures.
As I mentioned previously I picked it over Serum Visions.
Presence of Gond for another drift target/another way to spew tokens? Maybe it's still just too bad. Kruphix's Insight is probably out of the question because milling past the important guys would not great. Though with Renegade Rallier and Eternal Witness it could work.
I did in fact go with Collected Company since it enables combos so well by digging for your creatures, putting your combo creatures into play at instant speed EOT and offering some card advantage to make up for running mediocre creatures because they combo. Plus, you're more likely to end up with an Intruder Alarm in play and be wanting to find the creature side of the combo than the other way around because creatures are easier to remove than enchantments in Modern.
A few other thoughts I have after having built it:
I may want more flash creatures to make attacking into Intruder Alarm risky for my opponent.
Creature with strong tap abilities are strong with Intruder Alarm in general because you can tap in response to the untap trigger every time a creature ETBs. I could not find any standouts that fit here in my DB searches.
Creatures with Vigilance gain bonus points with Intruder Alarm. I haven't explored this much.
Wargate can tutor Intruder Alarm or a combo creature (or a Presence of Gond if I added one) into play. 6 mana to end the game might not be out of the question if we're durdly enough.
I'm using about the absolute minimum number of creatures where Collected Company is still good because I don't want creatures every turn. This will help Intruder Alarm function as a controlling card by denying my opponent an untap until they can find a creature.
I might want some big toughness creatures to encourage the game to go longer. Something like Wall of Omens (digs too!) or Wall of Roots might be appropriate.
I like the idea of Spellskite, and it fits in Bant and Esper versions pretty well.
I think Coco is just better than Drift overall. The idea you can put 2 combo enablers is already pretty good for the beatdown plan. Bant Knightfall don't run Drift to search for their enchantment. Drift is so bad of a card on its won that it's not worth playing anyway. Scapeshift quickly dismissed transmute cards (black splash) years ago as well. Not a good sign.
Commune seems good though, but once again, a deck like Bant Knightfall don't use it. If there's enough synergy with the graveyard (Tarmo is one), Commune may be excellent. Witness is another I suppose. Commune alone is a 2-cmc do nothing card (like Drift is a 3-cmc do nothing one). The main issue is the tempo loss generated by those cards, where Coco is a tempo gain.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
The difference here is that I plan the deck to be an all-in combo compared to Knightfall (which is more of a fair beatdown deck first)
where the combo is a bonus and is also much weaker (requires more than just 2 cards to win most of the time and is rather complicated to execute).
Maybe Drift should be replaced (Court Hussar maybe ?) but going all-in on the combo without a reliable tutor seems like a rather sketchy idea and I highly doubt that this deck can be anywhere close to Knightfall in the fair midrange/beatdown plan.
Yeah, that's where Esper tokens is nice. It helps combo creatures be relevant in a beatdown plan and add more control cards. With the popularity of Thalia decks right now, replacing Spectral Procession with Thraben Doomsayer may be an equal trade, but that might belong in the Tokens topic.
We may even consider Zur the Enchanter as a tutor for Alarm. Once again, maybe another topic.
In a Bant shell, obviously Humans could be tested : Parish and Lieutenant as the beatdown core, Reflector / Lyev for interaction. I'm not sold either though.
Seems like the field of possibilities is wide open.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
I've also considered Champion and Lieutenant to enhance the beatdown plan of the deck (as it plays 16x humans already) but I'm not sure how I can fit them in.
Flickerwisp can be cut and the next in line are probably Oath and Drift but I don't know if it'll necessarily make the deck better.
Other possible cuts might be Path to Exile.
This was an old sketch of a deck I had. I like the synergy between Sprout Swarm acting as a 1-card combo with Intruder Alarm. The biggest problem is that you need at least 4 creatures or a lot of mana to get it going, so what better way to do that than with (Josh Utter-Layton's I think??? someone can verify) GW tokens deck. Basically you flood the board with mana dorks and tokens. Pump them all up with Nissa, Voice of Zendikar, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, and Gavony Township to suddenly have a lot of threats and beat down your opponent. The backup plan is that if you happen to have an Intruder Alarm things get crazy.
Slotting in Steward of Solidarity would be easy and help give some redundancy to the deck. I always advocate for diverse angles of attacks in any deck that isn't purely combo, and if you cannot put in some redundancy (ie: Intruder Alarm and Jeskai Ascendancy) then it may not be worth going all in on the combo.
Just thought I'd stop by and let you know Conley was playing this deck on steam last night but 4 color. Here's a link to his list but it's still untuned
What I like with the Humans is that they grow infinite with Doomsayer and can swing for lethal within the same turn, while otherwise you give your oppponent one turn to wrath the board, race back or find another way out.
I tried them in a Zur list, and I'm not quite impressed. Zur is super slow and the enchantment package too expensive or too situational to cast when drawn naturally. I better draw a Coco and get more beaters down rather than Zur doing nothing for a turn.
It's very interesting to state that Alarm is as difficult to deal with as Reatreat in Bant Knightfall, but the deck has 8 infinite generators instead of 4 (naming KotR). Also, Vizier has also 8 looping creatures (Finks and Druid) but Vizier itself is very easy to deal with and it needs a third piece to go off. In sum, the Intruder's combo combines two qualities of the 2 other comparable comboes outthere, which gives it credit to me.
To be continued.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
My version seems pretty consistent so far in testing and regularly threatens the combo on turn 3/4 and can grind pretty well against disruption
with E-Wit and the cantrips.
Decks without wraths or a fast clock + disruption have a hard time beating the combo.
I side out Flickerwisp almost every game so I consider adding more interaction to the maindeck instead. Detention Sphere seems like a good option as it can be found by both Commune and Drift and can deal with most problematic permanents (or token armies).
I've been playing this in an Esper shell a fair bit recently. Results are promising so far, but it feels like it's missing something though I haven't figured out what yet. I'm going to keep hacking away though as I really enjoy combo decks.
A Bant shell seems like the most likely home for this combo imho.
#Drift of Phantasms (less narrow than Idyllic Tutor and cheaper than Wargate) can find Intruder Alarm/Thraben Doomsayer
or a value 3-drop like Eternal Witness/Renegade Rallier/Flickerwisp.
Another option can be Court Hussar that helps find the combo pieces as a creature version of Anticipate.
#Oath of Nissa and Commune with the Gods help dig for the combo.
#Eternal Witness and Renegade Rallier get cards from the GY and Flickerwisp can flicker them (or Oath) and randomly remove
Pithing Needle/Phyrexian Revoker type cards to combo of.
Here is the deck idea:
4x Noble Hierarch
2x Birds of Paradise
4x Steward of Solidarity
4x Thraben Doomsayer
4x Eternal Witness
2x Flickerwisp
4x Drift of Phantasms
Enchantment (8)
4x Oath of Nissa
4x Intruder Alarm
Sorcery (4)
4x Commune with the Gods
4x Path to Exile
Land (20)
4x Windswept Heath
4x Flooded Strand
2x Temple Garden
1x Breeding Pool
1x Hallowed Fountain
4x Razorverge Thicket
1x Forest
1x Island
2x Plains
2x Stony Silence
4x Leyline of Sanctity
3x Negate
2x Scavenging Ooze
2x Tormod's Crypt
2x Qasali Pridemage
The number of 3-drops in the deck seems rather high but I haven't found good enough 2-drops to use instead
(maybe Fauna Shaman/Voice/Duskwatch ?).
2x Bloodline Keeper
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Intangible Virtue
4x Intruder Alarm
4x Lingering Souls
3x Path to Exile
4x Serum Visions
4x Steward of Solidarity
3x Thoughtseize
3x Thraben Doomsayer
2x Zealous Persecution
it might work. I would cut the Wisps and Ralliers, as they apparently don't do much for the deck. Not sure about Oath. Commune with the Gods is a very good card here though. I wonder if we could fit another enchantment that would play well with the deck.
I guess you don't want Coco because it plays poorly with the Drifts ? In that case, I think 3xSpell Queller would be a great card to both protect the combo and have game against Delver, Affi, Infect and Lingering Souls decks G1.
@Noct :
Very interesting take and tech !
I would cut Bitterblossom entirely, add a couple Smuggler's Copters, maybe a Sword of Light and Shadow (good vs Push / Path, recurs combo pieces), just to test it out (I think swords are obsolete technolgy in modern but what do I know). Maybe Auriok Champion x2 as it's not so bad in the format and with Copter. Probably Fatal Push over Path since UB are the 2 colors you want on Turn 1.
I'll try your shell and come back with some feedback later.
Draft list :
4 Thraben Doomsayer
4 Steward of Solidarity
2 Auriok Champion
2 Smuggler's Copter
4 Intruder Alarm
4 Intangible Virtue
4 Fatal Push
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
4 Lingering Souls
4 Flooded Strand
4 Marsh Fkats
1 Swamp
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Watery Grave
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Moorland Haunt
4 flex Lands
It also should the deck function with only 20x lands which otherwise might be too few (it would still require testing for sure).
#Rallier and Flickerwisp were specifically chosen for their synergy with the other cards in the deck, namely Oath (which is the "other enchantment").
Flickerwisp can occasionally serve as a flying clock (especially with a Noble or two) while playing fairly and has plenty of targets in Rallier/E-Wit/Oath or even (an exerted) Steward.
Rallier can back duplicate Oath's, dead Steward/Noble or just ramp with Fetches.
The other card I considered here is Court Hussar for more digging but it seemed weaker in the "fair" plan compared to the other two.
I want to keep the Flickerwisps for now unless I can find something which would be an obvious improvement for this deck.
so there isn't much room for adding more combo's to the deck without compromising consistency (Oath, Commune, Drift, E-Wit) imho.
Only time doomsayers are really good is when you play Spellskite. That way you can instantly drop your life and then get the anthem effect. Remember that you don't have to target a spell that can legally target skite. The ability is just cancelled since it can't change the target of say a deaths shadow or something.
Forbidden Orchard generates infinite mana but I have no use of it and can't deal with all the tokens it produces anyway.
It is probably a different deck entirely which needs to be built around this interaction.
I'm not sure what Spellbomb interation you're referring to.
Spellskite will protect your combo. Probably needed, and also has another upside since alarm won't always be around. A secondary win condition with doomsayers.
Oath probably isn't needed as it misses the combo pieces you have the least of. I don't think oathing for a drift then cycling the drift for an alarm then casting alarm is really where you want to be in modern.
What are you suggesting exactly ? Just adding Spellskite ?
Oath is just a good cantrip here that helps hit land-drops and find creatures.
As I mentioned previously I picked it over Serum Visions.
Kruphix's Insight is probably out of the question because milling past the important guys would not great. Though with Renegade Rallier and Eternal Witness it could work.
...
... does this deck just want collected company?
BGGRock
Modern
BRGJund
BBGRock
4x Birds of Paradise
2x Noble Hierarch
4x Steward of Solidarity
3x Tarmogoyf
1x Spellskite
1x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
2x Eternal Witness
2x Kitchen Finks
2x Thraben Doomsayer
1x Vendilion Clique
4x Path to Exile
4x Commune with the Gods
4x Collected Company
Enchantments
4x Intruder Alarm
Lands
2x Botanical Sanctum
1x Breeding Pool
4x Flooded Strand
2x Forest
1x Gavony Township
2x Hallowed Fountain
1x Island
2x Misty Rainforest
1x Plains
2x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
Link to deck @ TappedOut.net
I did in fact go with Collected Company since it enables combos so well by digging for your creatures, putting your combo creatures into play at instant speed EOT and offering some card advantage to make up for running mediocre creatures because they combo. Plus, you're more likely to end up with an Intruder Alarm in play and be wanting to find the creature side of the combo than the other way around because creatures are easier to remove than enchantments in Modern.
A few other thoughts I have after having built it:
UBRGrixis Kiki Control
BGUSultai Shadow
GWRBushwhacker Zoo
EDH:
BGU Sidisi, Brood Tyrant
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose
GWU Roon of the Hidden Realm
I think Coco is just better than Drift overall. The idea you can put 2 combo enablers is already pretty good for the beatdown plan. Bant Knightfall don't run Drift to search for their enchantment. Drift is so bad of a card on its won that it's not worth playing anyway. Scapeshift quickly dismissed transmute cards (black splash) years ago as well. Not a good sign.
Commune seems good though, but once again, a deck like Bant Knightfall don't use it. If there's enough synergy with the graveyard (Tarmo is one), Commune may be excellent. Witness is another I suppose. Commune alone is a 2-cmc do nothing card (like Drift is a 3-cmc do nothing one). The main issue is the tempo loss generated by those cards, where Coco is a tempo gain.
where the combo is a bonus and is also much weaker (requires more than just 2 cards to win most of the time and is rather complicated to execute).
Maybe Drift should be replaced (Court Hussar maybe ?) but going all-in on the combo without a reliable tutor seems like a rather sketchy idea and I highly doubt that this deck can be anywhere close to Knightfall in the fair midrange/beatdown plan.
We may even consider Zur the Enchanter as a tutor for Alarm. Once again, maybe another topic.
In a Bant shell, obviously Humans could be tested : Parish and Lieutenant as the beatdown core, Reflector / Lyev for interaction. I'm not sold either though.
Seems like the field of possibilities is wide open.
Flickerwisp can be cut and the next in line are probably Oath and Drift but I don't know if it'll necessarily make the deck better.
Other possible cuts might be Path to Exile.
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Avacyn's Pilgrim
Noncreature Spells
4 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
3 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
3 Spectral Procession
4 Lingering Souls
4 Sprout Swarm
4 Path to Exile
3 Intruder Alarm
4 Windswept Heath
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Temple Garden
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
1 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Horizon Canopy
4 Gavony Township
1 Windbrisk Heights
1 Forest
1 Plains
Slotting in Steward of Solidarity would be easy and help give some redundancy to the deck. I always advocate for diverse angles of attacks in any deck that isn't purely combo, and if you cannot put in some redundancy (ie: Intruder Alarm and Jeskai Ascendancy) then it may not be worth going all in on the combo.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
Check out @Conley81's Tweet: https://twitter.com/Conley81/status/883145682667884544?s=09
A very interesting version, even rather complicated with many 1x-ofs and colors.
I'm not sure how consistent it is though.
I tried them in a Zur list, and I'm not quite impressed. Zur is super slow and the enchantment package too expensive or too situational to cast when drawn naturally. I better draw a Coco and get more beaters down rather than Zur doing nothing for a turn.
It's very interesting to state that Alarm is as difficult to deal with as Reatreat in Bant Knightfall, but the deck has 8 infinite generators instead of 4 (naming KotR). Also, Vizier has also 8 looping creatures (Finks and Druid) but Vizier itself is very easy to deal with and it needs a third piece to go off. In sum, the Intruder's combo combines two qualities of the 2 other comparable comboes outthere, which gives it credit to me.
To be continued.
My version seems pretty consistent so far in testing and regularly threatens the combo on turn 3/4 and can grind pretty well against disruption
with E-Wit and the cantrips.
Decks without wraths or a fast clock + disruption have a hard time beating the combo.
I side out Flickerwisp almost every game so I consider adding more interaction to the maindeck instead.
Detention Sphere seems like a good option as it can be found by both Commune and Drift and can deal with most problematic permanents (or token armies).
In anyone is interested, this is the deck so far.
2 Plains
3 Island
2 Swamp
2 Marsh Flats
3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
2 Watery Grave
2 Godless Shrine
2 Hallowed Fountain
4 Intruder Alarm
4 Lingering Souls
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Serum Visions
3 Path to Exile
3 Fatal Push
2 Perplex
3 Dispel
1 Logic Knot
3 Oath of Jace
Modern: Storm
Legacy: ANT