Hi all! I dont get to play much paper mtg because of my schedule lately but these past two weeks I've actually been able to go to locals and I went undefeated both times with 5 color saheeli. My locals is fairly competitive so I was happy with the results, going 2-0 draw and 3-0 draw two tournaments in a row. My matchups were: mono white Eldrazi and Taxes, Jund, a Kuldotha's Rebirth aggro deck with maindeck Bloodmoons, Jeskai Control, and B/W vampires. Before I talk about card choices, heres the same 75 I played both times:
As for the maindeck, I really do enjoy this configuration. The black splash for Siege Rhino and the Sideboard Sin Collector (was considering orzhov pontiff as well) and Nihil Spellbomb (could be Tormod's Crypt or something like that) has been well worth it for me. As you can see the only non-green/white card in the mainboard is Saheeli, so the deck honestly feels like a green-white midrange deck that splashes black for an aggressive rhino play, and saheeli for the combo (who also happens to be amazing with rhino). Oath of Nissa is so underrated at letting you splash the fifth color and I think it is well worth it for rhino, who is amazing against normally unfavorable aggressive matchups, and is better now that there are more bolts floating around than fatal pushes.
Tireless Trackers have been great and they present a must answer threat. They dominate any midrange or control matchup where they are left on board.
1 Pridemage has been a great singleton for being able to pick off Bloodmoons, and just being an extra exalted trigger for a trampling siege rhino and sideboard mirran crusader. Definitely a flex spot, but I wanted a 2 drop with slight utility and this fit the bill perfectly.
1 Sigarda is also a flex spot but she hoses certain matchups game one, and takes over in midrange matchups along with tracker and voice+rallier. Will probably come out for Shalai upon Dominaria release though!
Things I would change going forward: Fixing the sideboard. I think I am overloaded on artifact/enchantment hate at the moment and would trim on a rec sage most likely. I also have been fairly fortunate in drawing my engineered explosives post-sideboard and they have been incredible for me. I want to try out Trinket Mage (someone suggested this before but I will definitely try it at my next locals) to be able to turn evolution into an explosives or spellbomb/tormod's crypt in games two and three. As mentioned I would also want to try out orzhov pontiff, or maybe fiery justice.
I'm happy to finally be posting a decklist/small report after lurking for so long, so let me know what you guys think!
Welcome LumpyFishstick, and congrats on the good finishes!
Your list has slightly more mana producers than most people play, with a combination of six Birds plus Hierarchs as well as the full four Cobras and Ralliers. Have you had had any problems with flooding out so far?
Since my current list is similar except for the Cobra+Rallier package, I would be interested in your percentage of game wins via combo. I achieve somewhere around 25% of my wins with a succesful combo, and the rest by just regular attacks. Has it been similar for you?
I noticed you have no creatures in your main deck that you could tutor up to remove a threat like Devoted Druid or Dark Confidant. Having the option to turn Eldritch Evolution into a removal spell is very powerful. I've been playing Vengeful Rebel for a while now, and been quite happy with it, but you could also consider Reflector Mage, Hostage Taker or Glorybringer.
@Emzed I havent had issues with flooding out, no. I have noticed however that 1) I mulligan much less when I have more turn one mana dorks and 2) with bolt being so prevalent the mana dorks hardly stick on board, which clears the path for things like tracker, etc. but when they do stick you definitely feel like an unfair deck. Obviously drawing them late game can be bad but often times late game ill have a voice token that needs any old creature to make it better.
As for percentage of games won via combo im not sure the exact percent, but id guesstimate around 50%. Most of the combo wins havent been turn 3 blowouts though because my opponents have had interaction for the most part. Theyve been grinding their removal out until I can pick a spot and go for it and win. Playing must answer threats like Tracker and Sigarda and Rhino (especially when you target it for a blink effect) really helps with this style of play. Play to the board first, then if your board gets answered enough you lean on combo.
I used to play vengeful rebel, but I cut it because honestly even an unanswered dark confidant has been fine for me to deal with since Jund honestly cant handle voice+rallier. I 2-0ed my Jund opponent through a turn 2 Dark Confidant in game one the other day because it takes at least two pieces of removal to deal with voice anyway. Devoted druid and the like would definitely be the reason I would want to play that type of effect, though fortunately chord combo decks have dropped off a decent amount in the meta lately.
Just came back from a local tournament, played 4-0 with my 5c list. Beat Eldrazi Tron, Druid Company, BW Control and Jund. All the matches went to 3 games and felt close. The Felidar combo was responsible for 3 of my 8 game wins. My current list for reference:
The most memorable game happened against Eldrazi Tron: He was on the play, had Warping Wail for my Bird and turn 3 Tron plus Wurmcoil Engine. At this point I mentally gave up any hopes of racing and knew I would have to combo. Thanks to Voice, Lingering Souls and a few Bladesplicers, I was able to stabilize the board against Wurmcoil plus a few Eldrazi, with him now at 38 life and me at ~5. I eventually drew a Saheeli, and dug through my deck with her Scry plus a couple of Oaths, but found neither Felidar nor Evolution. However, Wingmate Roc gained me some life back and suddenly Elspeth showed up to send a 12/12 Voice token into the air - my opponent took a lethal 24 flying damage swing that turn. I never would have predicted a few turns earlier that I would win the game at all, and especially not in this fashion. But Wingmate Roc and Elspeth are in my deck exactly for board stall situations like this one, and they both did their job excellently. (Though I have to admit that I got pretty lucky that my opponent drew a mostly blanks over several turns. Something like Walking Ballista, All is Dust or Ulamog would have killed me easily.)
I'm feeling unsure about Roc, has the raid requirement been relevant for u? Otherwise it's a nice cc5, not sure how under the T-rex or other choices though.
Anyway, what i'm wondering is if lists without lotus cobra and more oriented to card advantage has to run Rhino and/or Path. We're too slow without spot removal against decks like Druid?
Went 5-2-1 at the SCG Open yesterday before scooping to my round 9 opponent (paired up) to put him into day 2. Not a bad result, and the draw (which killed me) could have been a win with tighter play. I just couldn't get the Devoted Druid list to a place I was happy with, and ended up shifting back to a more traditional list late in the week:
Not the spiciest Saheeli deck I've played, but our deck is already pretty spicy as it is.
Wins: G/W Company (2-1), Jeskai Control (2-0), Mono Green Tron (2-0), Bant Eldrazi (2-0), Humans (2-1)
Losses: Temur Kiki Brew (2-1), Temur Midrange Brew (2-1)
Draw: Jeskai Saheeli (1-1)
I scooped to a Boggles player for those interested. It felt kind of dirty.
Both losses were against rather odd Temur lists, and I ran pretty cold both matches. The matchups felt very winnable, and I'm not going to worry too much about losing to brews. It's worth noting that this list has no real way to handle a Stormbreath Dragon. In previous events, Ponza has been an issue largely due to that card.
Against Jeskai Saheeli, I took game 1 easily, and felt in control of game 2, but goofed up and shuffled a Blood Moon away when it would have locked my opponent out the next turn. I've got to play a bit cleaner when it comes to fetch/scry timing in general. After the mistake, my opponent drew a sweeper, and was able to cast real spells to slowly turn the game around from there. We ran out of time soon after starting game 3.
Excitingly, all of my wins were against legitimate meta decks. The G/W Company matchup didn't feel particular close (which lines up with previous experience), even though he stole game 1 when I bricked on drawing a land, Oath, or Evo over multiple turns. Both Tron and Bant Eldrazi felt good, especially with the maindeck Blood Moons. Our good draws beat their good draws, and we have access to a handful of cards that cripple them post board. Jeskai Control was a grindy affair, but I eventually ran him out of gas both games. I think the G/W "go big" Saheeli lists are generally favored against midrange fair decks. The Humans matchup was a nail-biter, and I think he could have played it better, but both EE and Blood Moon did amazing work. Their Meddling Mages and Freebooters are huge pains, but EE turned around game 2 by Plague Winding his team, and a turn 2 Blood Moon stole game 3. Overall I still want to make that matchup a bit better for the future.
A decent showing, and the "traditional" list continues to feel good in large events. I didn't love the Pia and Kiran, and Sun Titan continues to be very boom/bust. I like having a non Guardian target at 4cmc, but Rallier often feels like a better Evo target when sacrificing a Voice for value and tempo. Perhaps there's a more useful silver bullet that can fit into that slot? Also, 2 fetchable red sources feels wrong in a deck running Kiki-Jiki. There were a couple of games where I had a Kiki stuck in my hand because I didn't have a dork to allow me to actually cast him. Regarding the board, the jury is still out on Auriok Champion, I suspect another Blood Moon or Magus is better than Ghost Quarter, and Settle the Wreckage should have been a Worship.
I'll just link you to one of my previous posts about Wingmate Roc. Basically, if you build and play your deck accordingly, triggering Raid is not hard at all. I've had games where I had to cast Roc without Raid, but they are rare and in my experience (definitely >100 matches with Roc at this point) it is more reliable than Renegade Rallier, to give you a comparison. It's a very powerful and versatile card that has won me a lot of games, and I search it up with Evolution frequently. For example, if you start with mana elf into turn 2 Rallier / Blade Splicer, and there is no combo in sight, attacking and getting Roc with Evolution on the following turn is a great play. It represents a ton of pressure, outsizes basically every other flier in the format, flies over all the other big creatures, is hard to answer with removal spells, and the life gain can ensure you don't get raced. On top of that, it synergizes with both Saheeli and Felidar Guardian.
As you can see, I'm a really big fan of the card, and I recommend it if you are interested in a creature that helps you win fair games.
As for your second question, we certainly are a little slower than Druid Company. Cobra can help us get close to the same speed, but they are still more consistent at finding their combo quickly, and Cobra doesn't improve us in that regard. Rhino is not a big help in this matchup, we need spot removal or hate cards like Gaddock Teeg, Linvala or Damping Matrix. Basically the same can be said about decks like Storm or Infect.
I like having a non Guardian target at 4cmc, but Rallier often feels like a better Evo target when sacrificing a Voice for value and tempo. Perhaps there's a more useful silver bullet that can fit into that slot?
That sounds like a great spot for Shalai, Voice of Plenty once DOM releases
Been following this forum for a while and got super interested in the deck. Made a couple of changes and took it to FNM for the first time on Friday. Here is the list I've been running:
Verdant catacombs are there because I don't want to buy more fetch lands right now and they kinda work, and Avacyn's pilgrim is because I can't justify $80 for noble hierarch yet.
For the first time piloting I don't think I did too badly. I went 2.2.0, playing in this order, Jeskai Breach, Bant Spirits, Bogles, Humans. I won against Bant spirits and Humans, loosing badly to Bogles and going to game 3 against Breach, only loosing the last game because he played a t3 Emrakul which I promptly scooped to.
Something I noticed about my list is that I feel I am pretty weak to flying, and I felt like I was missing out on some needed maindeck interaction. Overall though, I felt good about my list. Primeval titan gives some great interaction with lotus cobra, and pushing one out on T3 puts up a huge amount of pressure early on, which can buy you time to assemble the combo, or just beatdown if they don't have an answer for it.
I think I want to look into Wingmate Roc and Shalai, Voice of Plenty to solve my flying issue. Not sure if bogles is pretty much a autolose for us but if so i'll board a couple of spellskite. Also not sure about adding interaction. Kinda looking for a card that can turn eldritch into a deal with anything card.
Any suggestions on changes would be very much appreciated! Thanks!
Went to Monday Night Magic for the first time in a while with the same list I posted last time except -1 Reclamation Sage +1 Trinket Mage in the sideboard.
Went 3-0 Again (8-0 and three intentional draws in my last 8 rounds played with the deck)and the deck continues to feel great. Gonna give quick summaries of my matches below but here is my list for reference first:
Match 1: Storm (Win 2-0)
Game 1 I mulligan to 6 on the draw and end with a fairly explosive hand (turn 4 kill with no interaction) but only one land with a second on top of my library with my scry. My opponent plays Shivan Reef turn one and my heart sinks as this is one of our worst matchups game 1. Fortunately for me he spins his wheels with cantrips for the first few turns, and even though I miss my third land drop im able to combo kill him after his baral + one land ends up not having a remand. He told me after the game that if he had a manamorphose instead of lots of rituals he would have been able to go off the turn he played Baral.
Game 2 I have a turn 3 kill in hand leading on a birds of paradise. Opponent cantrips turn one and two, then on turn 3 he rituals and plays blood moon. I untap and play felidar to combo with my onboard saheeli on turn 3.
Match 2: Jeskai Tempo (Win 2-1)
Game 1 He has multiple Spell Quellers and is able to tag two felidar guardians with them, which is a massive tempo loss for me. I almost stabilize with rhino but my saheeli that would have copied my rhino and put me ahead in the damage race gets cryptic commanded and I lose.
Game 2 Turn 2 Voice of Resurgence on the play is amazing vs any control deck. He tanks and ends up bolting my voice, then on my turn I Rallier it back and swing for 3 with the token. I end up winning after he plays supreme verdict leaving me with a voice token. I untap and play a second revolted rallier to get back voice, play a qasali pridemage, and my onboard saheeli copies the voice token to do exactly 10 damage for his remaining 10 life.
Game 3 was a pretty fun grind fest. There was a lot of back and forth but the pivotal turn comes when he plays pia and kiran to kill my tireless tracker without me being able to get a clue from it. I draw rhino with saheeli already in hand and play the rhino. Take a hit from colonnade, then on my turn i play saheeli and copy rhino, putting him to 8, then swing with 8 trample damage. He actually ended up having to leave the venue at this point (of course) but he would have had to chump block with either the thopter putting him down to 1, or pia and kiran putting him down to 2. We are both empty handed at that point and he probably wouldve ended up chumping with pia and kiran (so as not to die to the saheeli plus) and then assuming he drew a blank he would have had to hold back his colonnade to pair with the token to not die to trample damage. I wasn't exactly 100% to win the game but it was looking very much in my favor.
Match 3: Grixis Control w/tech one Cruel Ultimatum and one Nichol Bolas (Win 2-0)
Game 1 I mulligan down to 5 cards after my first hand didnt have a play until a turn 3 saheeli (had no clue what I was playing against) and my 6 card hand was two birds of paradise and 4 land. I start with a turn one birds, 3 lands and a siege rhino. Turn two i play a second birds, fetchland pass. My opponent plays search for azcanta on turn two after thinking for a bit. I draw eldritch evolution for turn, sac a birds for tireless tracker, play a fetchland in my hand, and crack my on board fetchland along with the newly played fetch to net 3 clues. This carries me most of the game until my opponent finally stabilizes at one life. I try to play a saheeli and it gets countered. He untaps and plays nichol bolas and plusses, to which I exile the felidar and eldritch evolution in my hand, leaving a saheeli still remaining in hand to finish off his last one point of life.
Game 2 He mana leaks my turn two voice of resurgence. Turn 3 I play a Lotus Cobra which resolves. Play a fetchland in my hand, and with the trigger on the stack my opponent electrolyzes it (should have waited until I cracked my fetch, ive noticed that people do this and do not play around lotus cobra correctly sometimes) I respond by cracking the fetch and floating a white and black mana and play sin collector from my hand. I see Snap, terminate, damnation and two lands. I exile terminate. Next turn i bait out the snap mana leak with a tireless tracker, and then the turn after that I felidar blink the collector to hit the damnation. I know all his cards and he has a mystery card in hand but the way he is acting I can tell he doesnt have interaction. I untap with 4 lands and after being left with only basics due to field of ruins, I play oath of nissa, then the saheeli that was in my hand to combo him for the win.
Overall, the deck continues to feel fun and smooth. I boarded in the trinket mage against storm and the jeskai tempo player but did not see it once so I unfortunately have no input on that. Let me know if you have any questions about how I sideboarded or anything else you can think of.
@Rhavoreth: Primeval Titan seems like an odd choice, since the card has no synergy with your deck. It's a big dude that gets you Kessig Wolf Run, which seems underwhelming for so much mana. Also, with 4 Cobras and multiple 6-drops, I think 21 lands are probably not quite enough. Can you explain what the Knightfall combo in your sideboard is for? When do you bring that in, and how has that plan performed so far?
@LumpyFishstick: Nice results! For which matchups is the Mirran Crusader in your sideboard? Jund probably has too much red removal (Bolt, Anger, Grim Lavamancer) for it to really shine, right?
Mirran Crusader comes in vs any BGx Midrange, Elves, and at my locals a few people try to spice it up with some black based brews. Its probably not appropriate to have in the board for a larger event, but even against Jund you force them to have exactly lighnting bolt for it (lily of the veil should be boarded out against us), or it will kill them. You are usually not beating Anger of the Gods or Grim Lavamancer anyway. As a one of its fine because if its early in the game I can tutor for something more appropriate, but later in the game he becomes fantastic. Would be open to other things for that slot in the board though.
I would know, why Aether Vial has not been discussed (as far as i can see)? We are a rather heavy-creature deck with low cc noncreature spells and even our cc isn't too much different often (obviously in a shell like that you will need a critical amount of cc 2 and 3). I was thinking about it seeing the new pseudo-oath Adventurous Impulse. With 6-8 green cantrips we could be sure to keep high cc creature at the bottom of the deck ready to be taken by Evolution.
It's just an idea, ofc, would love to know what do you think about it
Comparing Adventurous Impulse to Oath of Nissa is just not even in the same league for this deck unfortunately. maniospas touched on a lot of it, but Oath is also a permanent that is always going to be a good blink target for felidar, fixes our mana, can trigger revolt for renegade rallier, and can also just be regrabbed by renegade rallier. I can see why people would look at Impulse and draw the comparison but really Oath of Nissa is miles above that card, at least for this deck specifically. I dont think we are quite in the market for any more than 4 cantrips in the deck, and I struggle to even strictly classify Oath as a cantrip in this deck because its so much more than that. I know I will continue to look at all the Dominaria previews with this deck in mind though, and thanks for bringing the card up @Memories
Clear explanation for Vial, thx, still unsure about 1-2 Impulse as a (weaker, ofc) version of Nissa. As said, coming from legacy the amount of games compromised by too much/too many lands is frustrating, but probably i just have to accept it.
I've found primeval titan is a really big presence that demands an answer or it will end games. Works well with Cobra as it gives you 2 mana back on the turn you cast it. Often burns through their removal if nothing else to pave the way for the combo.
I've really only felt short on lands in 1-2 games, and with Oath/rallier + 5 1 mana dorks I can easily get back on curve if I miss a land drop i do want to try running 22 to see whether the deck runs ant smoother though.
My LGS tends to hate on combo quite a lot, packing stuff like pithing needle, meddling mage, surgical extraction. Having a plan B combo is nice for those games when I expect a lot of combo hate since my build I feel falls a little short in the beatdown plan. So far I've brought it in twice, the first time he he cast meddling mage on felidar guardian (which i think was the wrong choice, you should be targeting eldritch), but I already had a large enough board presense and just copied a sun titan with saheeli and hit for 12 for the win. The second game it had more impact, I drew a retreat and eldritched for a knight. they weren't expecting it after a meddling mage on saheeli.
Taking the deck to FNM again tonight, with a couple of changes
I've found primeval titan is a really big presence that demands an answer or it will end games. Works well with Cobra as it gives you 2 mana back on the turn you cast it. Often burns through their removal if nothing else to pave the way for the combo.
That's true, but most of what you describe could be achieved by other cards, and in an even more powerful way (Sun Titan, Inferno Titan, Wurmcoil Engine) or for less mana (Sigarda, Wingmate Roc, Glorybringer). Why Primeval Titan specifically? In combination with Cobra and Wolf Run it deals a lot of damage quickly, but that's all it does. It will often not be enough when your opponent has you on the back foot, and you might just lose to cards like Mantis Rider, Cranial Plating, Scapeshift or Wurmcoil Engine anyway. It's certainly a good card, no question, but for 6 mana I expect even more.
@maniospas, @Emzed
You may be right with the mana. Honestly, I really have had very minimal games without enough to cast what I want on each turn, but I do want to get some games in with an extra land. the extra mana for primeval titan can be used to put down a voice on the turn you cast it, or the following turn it can give the potential to cast both of our combo pieces if they tapped out on their turn to deal with the titan. To me it really turns the game around, and can give you the tempo you need to finish it.
I am going to give wingmate roc a try tonight and we will see how that goes
I am still nowhere near convinced regarding Primeval Titan, but great if it works for you, and good luck tonight!
On another topic, can you guys imagine the new Orcish Vandal in our deck? Saheeli's copies are artifacts (sacrificing a copied Voice of Resurgence would even give us an Elemental token), and if we ran 2-3 Tireless Tracker, we might have a reasonable amount of fuel for the Orc. (Actually, we most likely need a few more than that. Ideas?) Probably the card is neither powerful nor reliable enough for us, but it caught my eye somehow, and I might give it a try.
I am still nowhere near convinced regarding Primeval Titan, but great if it works for you, and good luck tonight!
On another topic, can you guys imagine the new Orcish Vandal in our deck? Saheeli's copies are artifacts (sacrificing a copied Voice of Resurgence would even give us an Elemental token), and if we ran 2-3 Tireless Tracker, we might have a reasonable amount of fuel for the Orc. (Actually, we most likely need a few more than that. Ideas?) Probably the card is neither powerful nor reliable enough for us, but it caught my eye somehow, and I might give it a try.
I love where your head's at, but Grim Lavamancer probably does this thing (if we want it) at a decent enough rate, and more reliably, right?
A more defensive list (0 Lotus Cobras and 4 Wall of Omens)
Magus of the Tabernacle in the board (!!!)
3 Qasali Ambushers in the board (I don't quite get this one)
Removing Paths from the main seems like the norm at this point. Reflector Mage is more abusable, enables more aggressive draws, and allows us to cut Eternal Witness altogether. The G/W value lists are also trending towards some amount of Blood Moon effects in the main. This is particularly strong for us, as very few people expect it out of a "four color deck" at all, let alone Game 1.
I had the idea of Qasali Ambusher before, but never actually tested it. It's a cheap and often unexpected way to kill attackers like Goblin Guide, Vault Skirge or Meddling Mage, and also a cmc3 creature that you can cheat into play as early as turn 1, enabling some crazy Evolution plays. Essentially, it's a "removal" that can be found via Oath. As long as the 2/3 reach body is relevant in enough matchups (currently Humans, Affinity, Burn, Hollow One), the card seems quite powerful.
Utopia Sprawl has a couple of problems: Unlike mana creatures, we can't hit it with Oath, sac it to Evolution, or copy it with Saheeli. It doesn't grow our Voice tokens and can't help us in combat. Also, many decks run Ghost Quarter, Field of Ruin, Stone Rain, Blood Moon or Karn, which can all interact with the enchanted land. Creatures are obviously more vulnerable in general, but at least the opponent usually has to invest a full card into killing our turn 1 Bird. Utopia Sprawl on the other hand can create real blowouts if they have land destruction. I think the best way to play Utopia Sprawl is in combination with Blood Moon like the Ponza deck does it, since that shuts off many of the cards that interact with Utopia Sprawl. But since that plan requires to always have a turn 1 basic Forest, it's not a good fit for us.
If I didn't have Hierarchs, I would probably go with 4 Birds, 2 Avacyn's Pilgrims, 1 Llanowar Elves and stick to mostly GW cards. A handful of offcolor spells like Reflector Mage should not be hard to cast, but I would stay away from double red / blue or black mana costs.
I recently saw Gab Nassif testing a version of his GW Value Company deck on Twitch with 4 Birds, 4 Hierarchs, 1 Avacyn's Pilgrim and 1 Llanowar Elves for a toral of 10 accelerators on turn 1. He hadn't decided if it was good this way after playing a couple of games (obviously not easy to judge), but after playing with 9 elves for a time, he seemed to think the 10th was worth a try. While the deck is quite different from Saheeli, it shares a similar mana curve with lots of 3-drops and a handful of 4-drops. After seeing that, and since I really dislike opening hands without acceleration, I started thinking about playing more accelerators myself. Currently I run 7 (no Cobras), but if Nassif has 9-10 in a similar deck, one of us is probably wrong.
I'm going to test the 8th accelerator in a small tournament tonight and see how I like it. Not a huge change by any means, but it should improve my average opening hand a bit. And, who knows, maybe I'll try out a 9th one at some point.
Not sure how comparable it is but birthing pod decks used to run 8-10 mana creatures (4 birds, 2-3 hierarchs, 1-3 wall of omens) since you could often feed late dorks to pod. You can't do that as consistently with evolution but it still might be worth trying.
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4 Birds of Paradise
2 Noble Hierarch
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Lotus Cobra
1 Qasali Pridemage
4 Renegade Rallier
2 Tireless Tracker
3 Felidar Guardian
2 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Heron's Grace
Spells:
4 Oath of Nissa
3 Eldritch Evolution
4 Saheeli Rai
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Windswept Heath
3 Flooded Strand
1 Temple Garden
1 Breeding Pool
1 Stomping Ground
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Horizon Canopy
2 Forest
2 Plains
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sin Collector
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Reclamation Sage
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Path to Exile
As for the maindeck, I really do enjoy this configuration. The black splash for Siege Rhino and the Sideboard Sin Collector (was considering orzhov pontiff as well) and Nihil Spellbomb (could be Tormod's Crypt or something like that) has been well worth it for me. As you can see the only non-green/white card in the mainboard is Saheeli, so the deck honestly feels like a green-white midrange deck that splashes black for an aggressive rhino play, and saheeli for the combo (who also happens to be amazing with rhino). Oath of Nissa is so underrated at letting you splash the fifth color and I think it is well worth it for rhino, who is amazing against normally unfavorable aggressive matchups, and is better now that there are more bolts floating around than fatal pushes.
Tireless Trackers have been great and they present a must answer threat. They dominate any midrange or control matchup where they are left on board.
1 Pridemage has been a great singleton for being able to pick off Bloodmoons, and just being an extra exalted trigger for a trampling siege rhino and sideboard mirran crusader. Definitely a flex spot, but I wanted a 2 drop with slight utility and this fit the bill perfectly.
1 Sigarda is also a flex spot but she hoses certain matchups game one, and takes over in midrange matchups along with tracker and voice+rallier. Will probably come out for Shalai upon Dominaria release though!
Things I would change going forward: Fixing the sideboard. I think I am overloaded on artifact/enchantment hate at the moment and would trim on a rec sage most likely. I also have been fairly fortunate in drawing my engineered explosives post-sideboard and they have been incredible for me. I want to try out Trinket Mage (someone suggested this before but I will definitely try it at my next locals) to be able to turn evolution into an explosives or spellbomb/tormod's crypt in games two and three. As mentioned I would also want to try out orzhov pontiff, or maybe fiery justice.
I'm happy to finally be posting a decklist/small report after lurking for so long, so let me know what you guys think!
Your list has slightly more mana producers than most people play, with a combination of six Birds plus Hierarchs as well as the full four Cobras and Ralliers. Have you had had any problems with flooding out so far?
Since my current list is similar except for the Cobra+Rallier package, I would be interested in your percentage of game wins via combo. I achieve somewhere around 25% of my wins with a succesful combo, and the rest by just regular attacks. Has it been similar for you?
I noticed you have no creatures in your main deck that you could tutor up to remove a threat like Devoted Druid or Dark Confidant. Having the option to turn Eldritch Evolution into a removal spell is very powerful. I've been playing Vengeful Rebel for a while now, and been quite happy with it, but you could also consider Reflector Mage, Hostage Taker or Glorybringer.
As for percentage of games won via combo im not sure the exact percent, but id guesstimate around 50%. Most of the combo wins havent been turn 3 blowouts though because my opponents have had interaction for the most part. Theyve been grinding their removal out until I can pick a spot and go for it and win. Playing must answer threats like Tracker and Sigarda and Rhino (especially when you target it for a blink effect) really helps with this style of play. Play to the board first, then if your board gets answered enough you lean on combo.
I used to play vengeful rebel, but I cut it because honestly even an unanswered dark confidant has been fine for me to deal with since Jund honestly cant handle voice+rallier. I 2-0ed my Jund opponent through a turn 2 Dark Confidant in game one the other day because it takes at least two pieces of removal to deal with voice anyway. Devoted druid and the like would definitely be the reason I would want to play that type of effect, though fortunately chord combo decks have dropped off a decent amount in the meta lately.
4x Noble Hierarch
3x Birds of Paradise
4x Voice of Resurgence
1x Qasali Pridemage
2x Blade Splicer
1x Renegade Rallier
1x Vengeful Rebel
2x Siege Rhino
2x Felidar Guardian
1x Wingmate Roc
1x Sigarda, Heron's Grace
Other Spells 16
4x Oath of Nissa
4x Saheeli Rai
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3x Eldritch Evolution
1x Path to Exile
1x Collective Brutality
2x Lingering Souls
4x Windswept Heath
3x Verdant Catacombs
2x Marsh Flats
1x Breeding Pool
1x Godless Shrine
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Temple Garden
3x Forest
1x Plains
1x Swamp
3x Horizon Canopy
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Sin Collector
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
2x Fatal Push
1x Abrupt Decay
1x Delay
1x Unified Will
1x Stony Silence
1x Damping Matrix
2x Rest in Peace
2x Worship
The most memorable game happened against Eldrazi Tron: He was on the play, had Warping Wail for my Bird and turn 3 Tron plus Wurmcoil Engine. At this point I mentally gave up any hopes of racing and knew I would have to combo. Thanks to Voice, Lingering Souls and a few Bladesplicers, I was able to stabilize the board against Wurmcoil plus a few Eldrazi, with him now at 38 life and me at ~5. I eventually drew a Saheeli, and dug through my deck with her Scry plus a couple of Oaths, but found neither Felidar nor Evolution. However, Wingmate Roc gained me some life back and suddenly Elspeth showed up to send a 12/12 Voice token into the air - my opponent took a lethal 24 flying damage swing that turn. I never would have predicted a few turns earlier that I would win the game at all, and especially not in this fashion. But Wingmate Roc and Elspeth are in my deck exactly for board stall situations like this one, and they both did their job excellently. (Though I have to admit that I got pretty lucky that my opponent drew a mostly blanks over several turns. Something like Walking Ballista, All is Dust or Ulamog would have killed me easily.)
Anyway, what i'm wondering is if lists without lotus cobra and more oriented to card advantage has to run Rhino and/or Path. We're too slow without spot removal against decks like Druid?
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Noble Hierarch
2 Lotus Cobra
4 Voice of Resurgence
3 Renegade Rallier
2 Reflector Mage
4 Felidar Guardian
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Thragtusk
1 Sun Titan
Spells
4 Oath of Nissa
2 Blood Moon
4 Saheeli Rai
3 Eldritch Evolution
1 Breeding Pool
2 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
2 Arid Mesa
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Stony Silence
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Settle the Wreckage
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Auriok Champion
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Sigarda, Heron's Grace
1 Ghost Quarter
Not the spiciest Saheeli deck I've played, but our deck is already pretty spicy as it is.
Wins: G/W Company (2-1), Jeskai Control (2-0), Mono Green Tron (2-0), Bant Eldrazi (2-0), Humans (2-1)
Losses: Temur Kiki Brew (2-1), Temur Midrange Brew (2-1)
Draw: Jeskai Saheeli (1-1)
I scooped to a Boggles player for those interested. It felt kind of dirty.
Both losses were against rather odd Temur lists, and I ran pretty cold both matches. The matchups felt very winnable, and I'm not going to worry too much about losing to brews. It's worth noting that this list has no real way to handle a Stormbreath Dragon. In previous events, Ponza has been an issue largely due to that card.
Against Jeskai Saheeli, I took game 1 easily, and felt in control of game 2, but goofed up and shuffled a Blood Moon away when it would have locked my opponent out the next turn. I've got to play a bit cleaner when it comes to fetch/scry timing in general. After the mistake, my opponent drew a sweeper, and was able to cast real spells to slowly turn the game around from there. We ran out of time soon after starting game 3.
Excitingly, all of my wins were against legitimate meta decks. The G/W Company matchup didn't feel particular close (which lines up with previous experience), even though he stole game 1 when I bricked on drawing a land, Oath, or Evo over multiple turns. Both Tron and Bant Eldrazi felt good, especially with the maindeck Blood Moons. Our good draws beat their good draws, and we have access to a handful of cards that cripple them post board. Jeskai Control was a grindy affair, but I eventually ran him out of gas both games. I think the G/W "go big" Saheeli lists are generally favored against midrange fair decks. The Humans matchup was a nail-biter, and I think he could have played it better, but both EE and Blood Moon did amazing work. Their Meddling Mages and Freebooters are huge pains, but EE turned around game 2 by Plague Winding his team, and a turn 2 Blood Moon stole game 3. Overall I still want to make that matchup a bit better for the future.
A decent showing, and the "traditional" list continues to feel good in large events. I didn't love the Pia and Kiran, and Sun Titan continues to be very boom/bust. I like having a non Guardian target at 4cmc, but Rallier often feels like a better Evo target when sacrificing a Voice for value and tempo. Perhaps there's a more useful silver bullet that can fit into that slot? Also, 2 fetchable red sources feels wrong in a deck running Kiki-Jiki. There were a couple of games where I had a Kiki stuck in my hand because I didn't have a dork to allow me to actually cast him. Regarding the board, the jury is still out on Auriok Champion, I suspect another Blood Moon or Magus is better than Ghost Quarter, and Settle the Wreckage should have been a Worship.
As you can see, I'm a really big fan of the card, and I recommend it if you are interested in a creature that helps you win fair games.
As for your second question, we certainly are a little slower than Druid Company. Cobra can help us get close to the same speed, but they are still more consistent at finding their combo quickly, and Cobra doesn't improve us in that regard. Rhino is not a big help in this matchup, we need spot removal or hate cards like Gaddock Teeg, Linvala or Damping Matrix. Basically the same can be said about decks like Storm or Infect.
Edit: Great finish Siefer, congrats!
4x Birds of Paradise
1x Avacyn's Pilgrim
4x Lotus Cobra
4x Felidar Guardian
3x Renegade Rallier
Other Creatures
3x Voice of Resurgence
2x Bloodbraid Elf
1x Blade Splicer
1x Eternal Witness
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1x Primeval Titan
1x Sun Titan
1x Restoration Angel
Spells
4x Eldritch Evolution
4x Oath of Nissa
4x Saheeli Rai
1x Flooded Strand
2x Forest
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Island
1x Kessig Wolf Run
2x Marsh Flats
1x Mountain
2x Plains
2x Stomping Ground
1x Temple Garden
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Foothills
2x Coiling Oracle
1x Eternal Witness
2x Knight of the Reliquary
3x Path to Exile
2x Reclamation Sage
2x Retreat to Coralhelm
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Verdant catacombs are there because I don't want to buy more fetch lands right now and they kinda work, and Avacyn's pilgrim is because I can't justify $80 for noble hierarch yet.
For the first time piloting I don't think I did too badly. I went 2.2.0, playing in this order, Jeskai Breach, Bant Spirits, Bogles, Humans. I won against Bant spirits and Humans, loosing badly to Bogles and going to game 3 against Breach, only loosing the last game because he played a t3 Emrakul which I promptly scooped to.
Something I noticed about my list is that I feel I am pretty weak to flying, and I felt like I was missing out on some needed maindeck interaction. Overall though, I felt good about my list. Primeval titan gives some great interaction with lotus cobra, and pushing one out on T3 puts up a huge amount of pressure early on, which can buy you time to assemble the combo, or just beatdown if they don't have an answer for it.
I think I want to look into Wingmate Roc and Shalai, Voice of Plenty to solve my flying issue. Not sure if bogles is pretty much a autolose for us but if so i'll board a couple of spellskite. Also not sure about adding interaction. Kinda looking for a card that can turn eldritch into a deal with anything card.
Any suggestions on changes would be very much appreciated! Thanks!
Went 3-0 Again (8-0 and three intentional draws in my last 8 rounds played with the deck)and the deck continues to feel great. Gonna give quick summaries of my matches below but here is my list for reference first:
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Noble Hierarch
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Lotus Cobra
1 Qasali Pridemage
4 Renegade Rallier
2 Tireless Tracker
3 Felidar Guardian
2 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Heron's Grace
Spells:
4 Oath of Nissa
3 Eldritch Evolution
4 Saheeli Rai
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Windswept Heath
3 Flooded Strand
1 Temple Garden
1 Breeding Pool
1 Stomping Ground
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Horizon Canopy
2 Forest
2 Plains
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sin Collector
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Path to Exile
1 Trinket Mage
Match 1: Storm (Win 2-0)
Game 1 I mulligan to 6 on the draw and end with a fairly explosive hand (turn 4 kill with no interaction) but only one land with a second on top of my library with my scry. My opponent plays Shivan Reef turn one and my heart sinks as this is one of our worst matchups game 1. Fortunately for me he spins his wheels with cantrips for the first few turns, and even though I miss my third land drop im able to combo kill him after his baral + one land ends up not having a remand. He told me after the game that if he had a manamorphose instead of lots of rituals he would have been able to go off the turn he played Baral.
Game 2 I have a turn 3 kill in hand leading on a birds of paradise. Opponent cantrips turn one and two, then on turn 3 he rituals and plays blood moon. I untap and play felidar to combo with my onboard saheeli on turn 3.
Match 2: Jeskai Tempo (Win 2-1)
Game 1 He has multiple Spell Quellers and is able to tag two felidar guardians with them, which is a massive tempo loss for me. I almost stabilize with rhino but my saheeli that would have copied my rhino and put me ahead in the damage race gets cryptic commanded and I lose.
Game 2 Turn 2 Voice of Resurgence on the play is amazing vs any control deck. He tanks and ends up bolting my voice, then on my turn I Rallier it back and swing for 3 with the token. I end up winning after he plays supreme verdict leaving me with a voice token. I untap and play a second revolted rallier to get back voice, play a qasali pridemage, and my onboard saheeli copies the voice token to do exactly 10 damage for his remaining 10 life.
Game 3 was a pretty fun grind fest. There was a lot of back and forth but the pivotal turn comes when he plays pia and kiran to kill my tireless tracker without me being able to get a clue from it. I draw rhino with saheeli already in hand and play the rhino. Take a hit from colonnade, then on my turn i play saheeli and copy rhino, putting him to 8, then swing with 8 trample damage. He actually ended up having to leave the venue at this point (of course) but he would have had to chump block with either the thopter putting him down to 1, or pia and kiran putting him down to 2. We are both empty handed at that point and he probably wouldve ended up chumping with pia and kiran (so as not to die to the saheeli plus) and then assuming he drew a blank he would have had to hold back his colonnade to pair with the token to not die to trample damage. I wasn't exactly 100% to win the game but it was looking very much in my favor.
Match 3: Grixis Control w/tech one Cruel Ultimatum and one Nichol Bolas (Win 2-0)
Game 1 I mulligan down to 5 cards after my first hand didnt have a play until a turn 3 saheeli (had no clue what I was playing against) and my 6 card hand was two birds of paradise and 4 land. I start with a turn one birds, 3 lands and a siege rhino. Turn two i play a second birds, fetchland pass. My opponent plays search for azcanta on turn two after thinking for a bit. I draw eldritch evolution for turn, sac a birds for tireless tracker, play a fetchland in my hand, and crack my on board fetchland along with the newly played fetch to net 3 clues. This carries me most of the game until my opponent finally stabilizes at one life. I try to play a saheeli and it gets countered. He untaps and plays nichol bolas and plusses, to which I exile the felidar and eldritch evolution in my hand, leaving a saheeli still remaining in hand to finish off his last one point of life.
Game 2 He mana leaks my turn two voice of resurgence. Turn 3 I play a Lotus Cobra which resolves. Play a fetchland in my hand, and with the trigger on the stack my opponent electrolyzes it (should have waited until I cracked my fetch, ive noticed that people do this and do not play around lotus cobra correctly sometimes) I respond by cracking the fetch and floating a white and black mana and play sin collector from my hand. I see Snap, terminate, damnation and two lands. I exile terminate. Next turn i bait out the snap mana leak with a tireless tracker, and then the turn after that I felidar blink the collector to hit the damnation. I know all his cards and he has a mystery card in hand but the way he is acting I can tell he doesnt have interaction. I untap with 4 lands and after being left with only basics due to field of ruins, I play oath of nissa, then the saheeli that was in my hand to combo him for the win.
Overall, the deck continues to feel fun and smooth. I boarded in the trinket mage against storm and the jeskai tempo player but did not see it once so I unfortunately have no input on that. Let me know if you have any questions about how I sideboarded or anything else you can think of.
@LumpyFishstick: Nice results! For which matchups is the Mirran Crusader in your sideboard? Jund probably has too much red removal (Bolt, Anger, Grim Lavamancer) for it to really shine, right?
It's just an idea, ofc, would love to know what do you think about it
I've found primeval titan is a really big presence that demands an answer or it will end games. Works well with Cobra as it gives you 2 mana back on the turn you cast it. Often burns through their removal if nothing else to pave the way for the combo.
I've really only felt short on lands in 1-2 games, and with Oath/rallier + 5 1 mana dorks I can easily get back on curve if I miss a land drop i do want to try running 22 to see whether the deck runs ant smoother though.
My LGS tends to hate on combo quite a lot, packing stuff like pithing needle, meddling mage, surgical extraction. Having a plan B combo is nice for those games when I expect a lot of combo hate since my build I feel falls a little short in the beatdown plan. So far I've brought it in twice, the first time he he cast meddling mage on felidar guardian (which i think was the wrong choice, you should be targeting eldritch), but I already had a large enough board presense and just copied a sun titan with saheeli and hit for 12 for the win. The second game it had more impact, I drew a retreat and eldritched for a knight. they weren't expecting it after a meddling mage on saheeli.
Taking the deck to FNM again tonight, with a couple of changes
Maindeck Out
Maindeck In
Sideboard Out
Sideboard In
That's true, but most of what you describe could be achieved by other cards, and in an even more powerful way (Sun Titan, Inferno Titan, Wurmcoil Engine) or for less mana (Sigarda, Wingmate Roc, Glorybringer). Why Primeval Titan specifically? In combination with Cobra and Wolf Run it deals a lot of damage quickly, but that's all it does. It will often not be enough when your opponent has you on the back foot, and you might just lose to cards like Mantis Rider, Cranial Plating, Scapeshift or Wurmcoil Engine anyway. It's certainly a good card, no question, but for 6 mana I expect even more.
You may be right with the mana. Honestly, I really have had very minimal games without enough to cast what I want on each turn, but I do want to get some games in with an extra land. the extra mana for primeval titan can be used to put down a voice on the turn you cast it, or the following turn it can give the potential to cast both of our combo pieces if they tapped out on their turn to deal with the titan. To me it really turns the game around, and can give you the tempo you need to finish it.
I am going to give wingmate roc a try tonight and we will see how that goes
On another topic, can you guys imagine the new Orcish Vandal in our deck? Saheeli's copies are artifacts (sacrificing a copied Voice of Resurgence would even give us an Elemental token), and if we ran 2-3 Tireless Tracker, we might have a reasonable amount of fuel for the Orc. (Actually, we most likely need a few more than that. Ideas?) Probably the card is neither powerful nor reliable enough for us, but it caught my eye somehow, and I might give it a try.
I love where your head's at, but Grim Lavamancer probably does this thing (if we want it) at a decent enough rate, and more reliably, right?
Another 5-0 list: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1036155#paper
Highlights include:
Removing Paths from the main seems like the norm at this point. Reflector Mage is more abusable, enables more aggressive draws, and allows us to cut Eternal Witness altogether. The G/W value lists are also trending towards some amount of Blood Moon effects in the main. This is particularly strong for us, as very few people expect it out of a "four color deck" at all, let alone Game 1.
Are there any lists that are okay with Avacyn's Pilgrim.
What about a build with arbor elf or utopia sprawl for more color fixing?
If I didn't have Hierarchs, I would probably go with 4 Birds, 2 Avacyn's Pilgrims, 1 Llanowar Elves and stick to mostly GW cards. A handful of offcolor spells like Reflector Mage should not be hard to cast, but I would stay away from double red / blue or black mana costs.
I'm going to test the 8th accelerator in a small tournament tonight and see how I like it. Not a huge change by any means, but it should improve my average opening hand a bit. And, who knows, maybe I'll try out a 9th one at some point.