@Redbaron
To be honest, Mindslaver was a holdover from when my mana base included Tolaria West so it was easier to tutor for the lock with Academy Ruins but that was before I added the Wildfire so it was just blue/green at that point. I will have to do some more testing to see if I can make that mana base work out to merit its inclusion.
I have done some goldfishing with Otherworld Atlas. You often combo without needing the Temple Bell, but when I get the Bell, I know I will have about only about two activations or so to find a spell. Sometimes I go for the combo on t4 but I have sacced my Coretapper to generate enough mana and in these cases, the Atlas is much worse than the Bell because the first activation is for a charge counter. I am pretty sure the Bell is right. Also, I did try out the Paradox Engine build you have on the first page of the primer with Elixir of Immortality and Otherworld Atlas and I found it to be less consistent than this one.
Do you have any thoughts about the sideboard slots? For Team Unified Modern, the pillars of the format are Infect, Tron, Burn, Affinity, Lantern Control and then maybe Ad Nauseum, Bant Eldrazi and Merfolk. I know I can probably use a Spellskite.
@onenineonezero
Like you said and redbaron also stated before, jund is a very hard matchup, but I'm playing 3 Monastery Siege and it works quite well for me.
As for the mana base, I play 3 colored if you want to see it that way, because I play 3 Siege in U 4 Ancient Stirrings in G and the Wildfire/Destructive Force in red.
Tezzeret's Gambit does not count for me because I mostly always pay 2 life and 3. My mana base consists of 3 Glimmervoid 3 Spire of Industry 3 Darksteel Citadel 1 Ghost Quarter 2 Inventors Fair and 5 Mountains, but I have to say that I also play 3 mox opal and this works really good for me, and I play 3 blood moon main.
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"Master they threatened to darken the sky with their arrows!"
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
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Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
After having played this deck extensively and tried many lists, I've found a few things, but here are the biggest points:
-Mox opal is strictly necessary
-Voltaic Key is very strong
-Thoughtcast is very strong
-I preferred Planar Portal as my way to go off, as the other options (atlas, temple bell) leave you too vulnerable to opponents drawing hate cards and/or flooding out and fizzling
-I have one Ballista and one Cut//Ribbons as my ways to win, and they are just better than the other options
They were all paradox combo (I tried a ramp version with wildfire and ugins but I didn't like how unreliable it felt)
I used Planar Portal to go off in the same way, except much more reliable; the requirements for going off aren't much higher and you risk much less. I never tried Atlas and only tried Temple Bell for a little while so those could be better, but I don't believe so.
I built the deck on MTGO and tested extensively there. The matchup against fair decks seems awful (grixis and jund are both very tough), but I found that I could just outrace the other aggressive decks sometimes. Wurmcoil Engine in the sideboard is very good for this.
I didn't like Gambit at all; three mana felt like such a huge investment for a deck that makes use of every single mana it has. Ancient Stirrings is one of the best cards in the deck. Thoughtcast just felt hyper efficient; I cast it for one mana very often.
I feel like you really want those 54 cards in the deck (if you were to shave to make more room, you could cut the Key, an Everflowing Chalice, or maybe a Paradox Engine). I've been trying a lot of things in the last 4 slots, but I'm really not sure what I want there. Here's what my sideboard looks like right now:
I'm sure there's lots of room to experiment though, I feel like there's still much to be explored. I'm trying out a slightly different list right now with more maindeck interaction and different ways to make use of charge counters: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/626617#online
You should try an eldrazi variant. They do really well against fair decks and have trouble with the unfair ones. The Wildfire/Ugin version is less consistent and too easily disrupted than the combo variant and the Eldrazi variant. I only had like a 45% win rate after ~400 games with the pure ramp.
Have you tested Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas? The card can win games alone and be cast as early as turn 2 with a good draw. He does a lot and provides two alternate ways to win.
Tezzeret's Gambit plays pretty nicely when you use other cards that have counters on them. Atlas, Lux Cannon, Tezzeret AOB, Ballista, and our mana rocks and is the best proliferate card currently. Being able to proliferate the mana rocks and draw into gas gets even better when Voltaic Key is involved.
The thing I notice about lists that don't use Otherworld Atlas is that they generally have 4 Paradox Engine and it seems like they play the engine before they go off. With Atlas, it is just the opposite. You would try and jam an atlas on turn 2 or 3 and then use its draw to go off in a similar way by playing the engine and then following up with whatever other cards you have in hand.
If you haven't tried a version with Atlas, I would recommend it. I prefer the card over Temple Bell due to the amount of synergy it has with the rest of the deck. It is low to the ground and costs less mana to operate overall, which should help when fighting through various forms of hate. Adding counters to it with node/coretapper or untapping and drawing twice the cards for 1 is nuts with a voltaic key out. The best thing about Atlas is that you don't need an Engine to use it effectively. You can get 3-4 counters on it and use it to draw at the end of the opponents end step forcing them to potentially discard. Use it again during your upkeep/main phase and you have drawn 7+ cards allowing you to find a Paradox Engine and combo out that way. Sure, you can draw your opponent some hate potentially but you will have also drawn yourself much more gas. The thing about us both having 10 cards in hand is that we have the mana to use them all typically and they are forced to make one decision. Atlas also helps against control because we can draw many more threats than they will have mana to counter. You can bait their counterspells early while building board presence and then combo out once they have no mana left. Wildfire also helps in this situation if you fail drawing into an engine or it gets destroyed or something. Taking all of their mana away means the cards in their hand aren't useful and we are rarely hindered by it.
How is planar portal? I feel like it could work well ending games quickly, but what happens when your ramp is disrupted? I suppose that would be a reason for the sb Welding Jars. Do you not activate it until turn 4 usually? 12 mana to tutor seems too slow in my mind. Isn't that too late against aggressive decks? Wouldn't fair or control decks not let you cast it or destroy it before you can put it to use?
OK it's been a few months with my above deck, I thought I would provide a tournament report from my last one locally. I went 1-2 but learned something valuable.
Match 1 was against some sort of Grull combo deck involving defenders with very little interaction. I went 2-0 here and both games I landed Tezzeret on T3 and was able to combo-victory on T4. Not much else to say here really other than the fact the deck worked exactly as advertised and due to the little information I had I didn't even bother sideboarding.
Match 2 was against one of the best players at our store who plays Skred Red. I knew this match-up would be tough but I had some weird confidence knowing he didn't splash white. Game 1 he won the die roll and durdled with Relic of Progenitus early-game. When he saw Coretapper he gave it a puzzled read for about 30 seconds and opted to immediately Skred it - I had an Astral in play and naturally sacrificed it. On turn 3 he passed with 3 lands untapped and I was able to cast Bust destroying all lands and then playing a land in response. Next turn I landed Trinisphere and it was just draw-go for a few turns until I was able to go off. At this point I was feeling really great and sideboarded in my creature package and removed all four of my Boom // Bust. This turned out to be a critical error as on Game 2 T1 I opened with 3 artifacts and in response he exiled Simian Spirit Guide and he completely blew me out with Shattering Spree. I wasn't able to recover and lost. Game 3 I flooded out and he took me out while taking his time using Koth.
Match 3 was against Esper Faeries. I play U/R Faeries and I was really dreading this match-up. Game 1 was close, he took me down on turn 7 or 8 with two Scion of Oona's and a few Spellstutter Sprites. Game 2 was .. T2 Stony Silence. Completely blowout victory for him.
What I learned here - and in similar match-ups and games I've played apart from FNM - is that our deck has serious game against A)Decks that do not pack enough good hate OR B)Do no possess a high density of 1-2 mana disruptive cards. In regards to B I feel we can fight that more effectively on our terms, but the hate is something that has to be resolved. For problem A, this is related to when they sideboard in the perfect hate for us - usually non-single target artifact disruption/removal. I'm looking at a few cards in my sideboard and wondering if perhaps we should not be including something like a discard suite of 7-8 Inquisitions and Thoughtseize effects and taking a highly proactive approach to our opponents sideboard plans. For those of you trying the Death Cloud versions of this deck I'm curious to know how well it's been working for you!
Well in my opinion, the way our deck works, we have to be sure, that in every game 2 we have to face really hard hate cards. The thing is, we need to minimize the dead artifacts if we face stony silence or find ways to still interact with the cards we have.
are ways we can still do something with the artifacts we have, and the problem with artifact removal hate cards, my best answer just is Monastery Siege which does a lot for me.
But I also think, that how the deck handles threats and hate cards heavily depends on whatversion of the deck you run.
I think the more fast problem cards you can present to your opponent the weaker some hate cards get(is that understandable?)
We can do nasty things if our opponent lets us, but we have hard times when he knows what we do. That's one point why I play a more prison type build with mainboard blood moons Monastery siege wildfire along with the combo kill and Ugin, the spirit dragon.
Also blood moon is still castable even if our rocks are disrupted in any way.
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"Master they threatened to darken the sky with their arrows!"
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
Hi everyone! I posted a Paradox Engine combo list about a month ago that I took to play Team Unified Modern at GP Cleveland (my teammates were on Skred Red and Abzan Devoted Company). I sat in the middle seat to try to distract the opponents of my teammates, which worked to some extent. The final list I submitted was:
Saturday
Round 1 – I had a hilarious first round because I think I found one of this deck’s most interesting matchups. Game 1, after Coretapper, he plays a Suppression Field. He was on Enduring Ideal and it was basically game over after Dovescape. I could come close to being able to pay the 16 mana to attack for lethal through Ghostly Prison and Sphere of Safety but he could just tutor for Oblivion Ring for the mana rock. In game 2, he found triple Stony Silence but no Ghostly Prison effects and I got there with Coretapper and Batterskull attacks. No game 3 because both of my teammates had won by that point.
Round 2 – Bant Eldrazi. Towards the end of game 1, staring down lethal on board, I topdecked Mindslaver to buy myself a turn and then topdecked Planar Portal to combo off. Game 2, he finds two Engineered Explosives on 0 to destroy my mana rocks and I am not able to do much. We had just started a game 3. My hand was not bad, but my second teammate loses before we get past turn 2 and we agree to not play it out. We actually got beat by bad seating because both of my teammates had unfavorable matchups that were favorable if they had been swapped but this team was also quite experienced and ended up winning the event.
Round 3 – Eldrazi Tron. Game 1 I make a lot of mana, but I don’t have an answer for Reality Smasher attacks. Game 2 I resolve Ensnaring Bridge and later a Wildfire. He is left with double Endbringer to clock me, but I have enough time to set up the combo. Game 3 I keep a bad hand with Crumble to Dust. He had a turn 3 with Tron up, but didn’t have one of his payoff cards. He has nothing to do after I resolve Wildfire. Game 3 he mulls his 7, has no lands on 6 or 5 and ends up keeping his 3.
Round 4 – Grixis Delve. Game 1, I didn’t play around early Mana Leak and eventually get beat down by Tasigur,the Golden Fang and Gurmag Angler. Game 2, I resolved an early Wildfire and then a second one to keep her off lands. A judge was watching me and told me I missed lethal when I could have tutored for Planar Portal but I miscalculated how much mana I could make. No game 3 because both of my teammates had lost by that point.
My record ends up being 1-0-3 and our team 1-3.
Sunday – Every entry to the main event came with a free entry to this side event, so I think this one was a little less competitive.
Round 1 – Affinity. Game 1, he has close to the nut draw, but on turn 4, at 1 life and 9 poison, I needed to draw any land to cast Wildfire and missed, though I wasn’t close to combo so I doubt I win the game even if I hit. Game 2, he has a much slower hand, I have a Nature’s Claim for Arcbound Ravager and then I have Wildfire on turn 4. He actually is able to rebuild a little bit, but I am able to find combo with very little pressure. No game 3 because both of my teammates had lost by that point.
Round 2 – Eldrazi Tron. Game 1, I find no Coretapper[/card or Surge Node but I have three Everflowing Chalice and an Astral Cornucopia after two draws so I start playing them naturally. I actually also naturally draw into all three pieces of the combo but I was a turn too slow and lose to Reality Smasher. Game 2, I keep a pretty solid hand but it was a one-lander and I don’t draw land and he turn 2 Thought-Knot Seer to take the Coretapper that made the hand keepable.
Round 3 – Zur the Enchanter Control. Game 1 is durdly, but a Zur the Enchanter with a Steel of the Godhead survives Wildfire which I wanted to play to keep him off lands. He ends up tutoring Detention Sphere for my mana rocks, which I hadn’t really thought about, so I don’t have the mana to combo and he gets the win. Game 2, I resolve turn 3 Wildfire and he doesn’t do much while I combo out. Game 2 was so long that we end up going to turns. I end up a bit short on mana to combo on turn 5 and take the draw but we agree that I easily win otherwise. My Skred Red teammate had received a 2 minute extension so they were not yet in extra turns and he actually wins within that extension and we get the match win.
Round 4 – I played an eight-year-old kid on Sigarda’s Aid combo but he had been playing for 2 years and actually understood what was happening with a few questions for his dad. Also, on turn 2, he had the following to say after seeing Surge Node into Astral Cornucopia: “I get it. If you make 50 charge counters, you win the game.” Which I think actually might be closer than all but one of my opponents to understanding what my gameplan is :).
He has a turn 3 lethal in game 1. In game 2, I have turn 4 Ugin which keeps his board clear of creatures and I am able to combo. In game 3, I have Ensnaring Bridge into the Mindslaver + Academy Ruins lock. After I demonstrated what would happen, he turned to his dad and says “I really hate this deck, but I want to play it” so I have high hopes for this guy.
My record was 1-1-2 and my team went 2-2 for a small prize payout. Team Unified Modern is an absolute blast. I think this is a sweet list and I am already thinking about a few modifications. I was not able to answer Reality Smasher/Tasigur/Gurmag Angler, so I am thinking of swapping in some Destructive Force for Wildfire.
I think I chose the right seat because 7 of my opponents really enjoyed the rogue jank deck and a lot of them asked me for the decklist (and one of my Saturday opponents told me that he was telling all of his opponents about it in the large Sunday Modern event) so hopefully, I have generated some influx of interest in this archetype. Thanks for reading!
@GH0UL
That's the way it goes. Would love to see the list. I am going to get back into the swing of things soon. I will be playing and reporting more, updating the first page a bit, etc.
My thoughts on Chalice of the Void and other symmetrical hate cards like blood moon have been expressed already in the thread I think. How often do you run into problems playing your own cards if you have to put chalice on 1 or 2?
Are there many x/1's that you want to deal with in the current meta? I usually found that it didn't do enough as removal and the proliferate was often times win-more. I really like Abrupt Decay in a slot like this as sort of a catch all early on. I also used to use Contagion Engine in a proliferate heavy build as like a 2 of. It seemed to help close out games with Lux Cannon nicely or poison counters from an Inkmoth Nexus. Throw some Voltaic Key's into the mix and baby you got a stew goin.
Well, it's been several months but I have had several opportunities to bring my deck to FNM's locally and have had some good results. The more I play, the more I realize how complicated the deck is. I've recently had people call me for slow play and that is something that has never happened to me in my 20+ years of playing magic. Not saying this is the most complex deck in the world by any means, but your early-game decisions often are a guessing game of 'If he destroys this I can keep that and put 3 counters on turn 3 but only if ...'.
The best part about the deck is that Game 1 is about as close to a bye as I've ever played in modern. Pretty much nobody is running main deck artifact and what removal there is usually isn't very effective as we have so many permanents in play & so quickly. My deck is still close to the same as posted earlier in this thread but I have added 2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon and one copy of Karn. I would say Karn is honestly not even that good but Ugin is a complete standout bomb which can be dropped earlier than your opponent might expect. The minus effect on Ugin is usually an immediate scoop which allows me to kind of say he's a win condition all his own, something this deck really lacks.
In my earlier iterations of this deck I was getting wiped out by discard spells but my three Leyline of Scantity actually seems to have completely resolved this problem to the point where even 8-Rack has a tough time. Currently I'm getting destroyed by Stoney Silence still but I have some plans for that.
Still a really fun deck and surprisingly effective strategy against mid-range decks and some combo decks but I have had a really hard time with aggressive decks or tempo-control decks like Faeries and Merfolk so it's by no means a picnic.
The biggest problem the deck faces is Stony Silence. The deck needs a solid game plan for game 2 and 3. I would prefer this deck to be in blue red colour, red for Wildfire and blue for the artifacts tutor. However, there aren't many ways to remove the enchantment once it's on the battlefield.
The biggest problem by far is of course stony. One card can shut down more than half of your deck, including mana sources. Some cards come to mind depending on what style of deck you are running.
They can be meta choices based on what type of white decks you find yourself against. Against BW decks that also have discard, something like seal will perform better. Against non-discard decks I prefer a mix of nature's claim and abrupt decay.
I played a rock and surge node and started putting counters on it, the I tried to play blood moon to pull a counter from his hand to cast wildfire next turn, he counters with cryptic and bounces my mana rock, after that he controls me with Ajani and Snapcaster cryptic shenanigans till he finishes me off with bolts Helixes and Gideon as a 6/6 creature.
I sided out 3 Monastery Siege 2 Tezzeret's Gambit and an Ancient Stirrings and a bridge for 4 Nature's claim 1 Krosan Grip 3 Defense Grid.
He mulls to 5 I have to mull to 5 he puts turn 2 Stony Silence into play I play defense grid, gets countered, i have Krosan grip in hand but never hit Glimmervoid or Spire of industry and he kills me with snapcaster and gideon rather quick.
result: Matches 0-2 Games: 0-1
Control is a very hard matchup, and after sideboard it's even worse. I probably sided bad here but I'm not sure what I could have sided otherwise... maybe cut the engine combo rather than the gambit's which could have helped dig for cards I needed.
Round 2 Bogles
She starts with t1 bogle, t2 ethereal Armor, I land a t2 Blood moon with Opal cornucopia surge node and darksteel citadel and she is left with only a basic plains, I wildfire 1 turn later followed by ugin and she scoops
Match 2
she starts with bogle supression field armor and daybreak coronet and I never get to cast wildfire, and hit Ugin where I haven't got the mana to use his -X abilty because of Suppression Field and die.
Match 3 I mull to 6 have a nice hand with glimmervoid mox opal surge node Stirrings land Nature's claim scrying an ensnaring bridge on top.
I start with opal glimmer surge node t1, she gets a bogle t1.
T2 I draw bridge stirrings for mana rock cast it for 0 put counter on it with node and pass.
she casts t2 Stony Silence my turn, I draw Inventor's fair play Claim put counter on rock pass. she casts etheral Armor and daybreak on Bogle and swings. My turn I draw an atlas play it and bridge. her turn she plays dryad arbor and passes the turn, EoT i put a charge counter on Atlas.
I get a life from Fair, draw blood moon, sac fair for Pardoxical Engine and play blood moon. she plays suppression field and I put a charge counter on Atlas
I draw Everflowing chalice, play paradoxical engine and the chalice on 1 untap, pay 2 to use Atlas and combo her out that turn.
Creature based decks seem rather good with bridges and Wildfire, also the combo kill is very nice.
Matches 2-1 Games 1-1
Round 3 against GBW homebrew (don't know what exactly he palyed)
I play a very good hand and explosive hand with a combo win on t4 without knowing what he does so I don't change anything in the deck.
second Match i have a decent hand with a t3 wildfire and kill him with the combo
I don't really remember what happened during the match, it's very vague because I was in a hurry because I had to go half an hour after the 3rd round started.
All in all the deck played well and had some explosive starts. I felt quite helpless against the control player but with counters in Match 1 and Stony in Match 2 I did the best I could, even if I may have boarded quite dumb/bad. Inventors' Fair is a must have in this deck.
Overall I think the deck seems quite good and also competitive. I have to work on the sideboard I think and I thought about what we could include to make the deck better or have other ways to make advantage of it and I thought about Brain in a Jar. In my build with Wildfire Tezzeret's Gambit and Stirrings it is quite nice to cast these things for 1, also the scry effect is a nice additional tool to maybe make our draws more smooth or better. it works nice with coretappers or Surge node. This may allow us to cast more instant and sorceries which couldn't otherwise be cast. Also a question would be if I cast a whir of Invention with it with lets say 7 counters on it would X be 3 then? because it doesn't say anything about spells with X in it.
A card I also consider is All is Dust.
And another question is for Blood Moon, do Nonbasic lands keep their Names and types? is Inventors Fair a legendary Mountain named Inventor's Fair or Mountain is darksteel Citadel still an artifact and dryad arbor still a creature? =)
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"Master they threatened to darken the sky with their arrows!"
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
I think there is no 1 list which is played at the moment, and in this thread there are many different lists, which all have their advantages and disadvantages.
depending on the list you want to play, there are several ways to deal with Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, personally I play a list with Wildfire in it to deal with all sorts of creatures. You can also play around Thalia just a bit slower by playing your rocks for 0 or 1 when Thalia is there and then put charge counters on the rocks as always. But I think Dismember is a good choice and with Astral Cornucopia and Mox Opal you also have the chance of not having to always pay 4 life, because sometimes you just can't afford to lose more life.
Mox Opal is a must have in this deck in my opinion, numbers of the card included in the deck may be different from player to player but for very explosive starts it is needed. And to cast colored spells like ancient stirrings it is also neccessary.
Voltaic Key is another card which is player dependend, personally I don't play it, but I had some situations where I wanted to have it or considered it to put it in the deck but I wasn't sure what to leave out for it.
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"Master they threatened to darken the sky with their arrows!"
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
Caught the deck on MTGGoldfish and it clicks all the boxes personally for the Johnny Combo player in me. Will be assembling the deck soon to try it out, already have a majority of the pieces.
All is Dust seems like it could have a place in the SB for sure.
Also thoughts on Temple Bell vs. Otherworld Atlas? Seems like giving the opponent multiple cards each pop could be bad in that there could be an answer in there. Rationale for each? Thanks.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Temple Bell or Otherworld Atlas is still a choice for each player personally and what build you prefer. I play Otherworld Atlas, because you draw multiple cards meaning it digs deeper in combo turns where you need to hit something to play and then untap with paradox engine. So basically, when you activate Otherworld Atlas you should win the game^^
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"Master they threatened to darken the sky with their arrows!"
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
I'm always just worried about the opponent digging deeper for an answer although it sounds like if you are comboing off there shouldn't be much worry. Looking forward to sleeving it up and playing it soon.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Indeed in Modern there isn't that much your opponent can do during your turn when you combo off. the only thing I can imagine is a cryptic command bouncing your rock and countering another but still you could play the bounced rock and continue to combo out.
All other disruption elements like Suppression Field, Stony Silence, Phyrexian Revoker or Pithing Needle can't come down on your turn. Maybe I'm overlooking something, but I can't remember one Situation where his digging was bad for me.
Problems could be in games 2 and 3 when Disenchant, Nature's Claim and such Artifact hate is boarded in, but mostly the enchantments are played.
Also in most games after the first you need to prepare for the Stony Silence kind of hate and board in enchantment hate yourself. I personally play 4 Nature's Claim and 1 Krosan Grip against the control Matchup.
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"Master they threatened to darken the sky with their arrows!"
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
Love the idea of this deck. Just every time I see it played it just durdles around doing nothing.
Why not make this aggro and mud stomp people? Like turn 1 do your land, mox, coretapper,corn start then turn 2 drop thought not or endbringer or something? All that other cute stuff could be cut out so fast and just have the best most beats plan evar.
Well this idea was also put up in this thread and I think it went relatively good, but in my personal opinion if I wanted to play mud/Eldrazi stompy I would just do it with the already existing decks(which are doing very good already like they are)
I wanted to play a different and unique deck like this so I will stay with the "durdle" around. And I have to say, after playing the version I play, it doesn't just durdle around it wins quite often
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"Master they threatened to darken the sky with their arrows!"
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
Hello there,
I've been tinkering with a Paradox Engine/Otherworld Atlas/Coretapper Ramp myself before I landed here (and added Wildfire, I was mainly playing mono-blue before). I tried several builds, several colors with more or less success. The community in Oslo is rather small, mostly withe an establish meta (Burn, Shadow, BW Eldrazi, Tron etc - Tiers 1 mostly) and I'm one of the few that try to bring crazy brews at the tables. Like this one.
I've been in a tournament this weekend and a Judge took a photo of the board state when a Wildfire was casted :). Opponent responded with a Kolagan's Command (targeting Wurmcoil and Paradox engine), responding with a Path on Wurmcoil, triggered Paradox engine, tap my artifacts once more... When everything was depiled, pumped Atlas to 12 counters to fetch for my second Elixir. Cracked on opponent's turn and finish milling him out.
That was fun! But this kind of plays only happen on the last table in a tournament...
I don't have any Mox Opal and it's a HUGE drawback for this deck. I'm always one turn too late for Wildfire. I'm actually thinking they're mandatory.
I was playing a red shell (Wildfire + Moon) with a splash of white the flipping Stony Silence (and life gain for Burn). And even with 3 Fragmentize and 2 Disenchant, the white enchantment is hard to circumvent... Taking collateral damage for Affinity is kinda hard :p. Any Duress-like effect is also very hard on us but I tried to valorise Trash for Treasure trading a Surge Node for a combo piece in these cases. Let's say "it's cute"
In fact, the most "winning" (or "not die now") cards of this build were Wurmcoil Engine and the Moons, not the fun mill...
Match Results:
BW eldrazi: 1-2 (it's actually a favorable match-up for the wildfire)
Burn: 1-2
Home brew combo: 0-2
UR Storm: 0-2
Young Pyromancer Tokens: 2-1
Lantern Control: 0-2
To be honest, Mindslaver was a holdover from when my mana base included Tolaria West so it was easier to tutor for the lock with Academy Ruins but that was before I added the Wildfire so it was just blue/green at that point. I will have to do some more testing to see if I can make that mana base work out to merit its inclusion.
I have done some goldfishing with Otherworld Atlas. You often combo without needing the Temple Bell, but when I get the Bell, I know I will have about only about two activations or so to find a spell. Sometimes I go for the combo on t4 but I have sacced my Coretapper to generate enough mana and in these cases, the Atlas is much worse than the Bell because the first activation is for a charge counter. I am pretty sure the Bell is right. Also, I did try out the Paradox Engine build you have on the first page of the primer with Elixir of Immortality and Otherworld Atlas and I found it to be less consistent than this one.
Do you have any thoughts about the sideboard slots? For Team Unified Modern, the pillars of the format are Infect, Tron, Burn, Affinity, Lantern Control and then maybe Ad Nauseum, Bant Eldrazi and Merfolk. I know I can probably use a Spellskite.
Judge Tower: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/80859
Like you said and redbaron also stated before, jund is a very hard matchup, but I'm playing 3 Monastery Siege and it works quite well for me.
As for the mana base, I play 3 colored if you want to see it that way, because I play 3 Siege in U 4 Ancient Stirrings in G and the Wildfire/Destructive Force in red.
Tezzeret's Gambit does not count for me because I mostly always pay 2 life and 3. My mana base consists of 3 Glimmervoid 3 Spire of Industry 3 Darksteel Citadel 1 Ghost Quarter 2 Inventors Fair and 5 Mountains, but I have to say that I also play 3 mox opal and this works really good for me, and I play 3 blood moon main.
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
-Mox opal is strictly necessary
-Voltaic Key is very strong
-Thoughtcast is very strong
-I preferred Planar Portal as my way to go off, as the other options (atlas, temple bell) leave you too vulnerable to opponents drawing hate cards and/or flooding out and fizzling
-I have one Ballista and one Cut//Ribbons as my ways to win, and they are just better than the other options
I can go more in depth if anyone is interested.
Were all of the lists Paradox Combo type lists? What were your favorite flavors?
Did you use Planar Portal to go off in the same way as you would with an atlas/bell?
How did you do your testing? Did you test against a variety of decks?
Did you use Thoughtcast in addition to or in place of Tezzeret's Gambit/Ancient Stirrings?
Can you post the list that you ended up with after your testing?
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I used Planar Portal to go off in the same way, except much more reliable; the requirements for going off aren't much higher and you risk much less. I never tried Atlas and only tried Temple Bell for a little while so those could be better, but I don't believe so.
I built the deck on MTGO and tested extensively there. The matchup against fair decks seems awful (grixis and jund are both very tough), but I found that I could just outrace the other aggressive decks sometimes. Wurmcoil Engine in the sideboard is very good for this.
I didn't like Gambit at all; three mana felt like such a huge investment for a deck that makes use of every single mana it has. Ancient Stirrings is one of the best cards in the deck. Thoughtcast just felt hyper efficient; I cast it for one mana very often.
Here's the core I'd run with:
4 Surge Node
4 Coretapper
4 Everflowing Chalice
4 Astral Cornucopia
3 Mox Opal
1 Voltaic Key
4 Thoughtcast
4 Ancient Stirrings
Win Conditions
4 Paradox Engine
2 Planar Portal
1 Walking Ballista
1 Cut // Ribbons
4 Glimmervoid
2 Spire of Industry
4 Botanical Sanctum
4 Inventors' Fair
2 Tolaria West
1 Forest
1 Island
I feel like you really want those 54 cards in the deck (if you were to shave to make more room, you could cut the Key, an Everflowing Chalice, or maybe a Paradox Engine). I've been trying a lot of things in the last 4 slots, but I'm really not sure what I want there. Here's what my sideboard looks like right now:
2 Dispatch
2 Spell Pierce
2 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Nature's Claim
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Pithing Needle
1 Wurmcoil Engine
I'm sure there's lots of room to experiment though, I feel like there's still much to be explored. I'm trying out a slightly different list right now with more maindeck interaction and different ways to make use of charge counters: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/626617#online
Have you tested Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas? The card can win games alone and be cast as early as turn 2 with a good draw. He does a lot and provides two alternate ways to win.
Tezzeret's Gambit plays pretty nicely when you use other cards that have counters on them. Atlas, Lux Cannon, Tezzeret AOB, Ballista, and our mana rocks and is the best proliferate card currently. Being able to proliferate the mana rocks and draw into gas gets even better when Voltaic Key is involved.
The thing I notice about lists that don't use Otherworld Atlas is that they generally have 4 Paradox Engine and it seems like they play the engine before they go off. With Atlas, it is just the opposite. You would try and jam an atlas on turn 2 or 3 and then use its draw to go off in a similar way by playing the engine and then following up with whatever other cards you have in hand.
If you haven't tried a version with Atlas, I would recommend it. I prefer the card over Temple Bell due to the amount of synergy it has with the rest of the deck. It is low to the ground and costs less mana to operate overall, which should help when fighting through various forms of hate. Adding counters to it with node/coretapper or untapping and drawing twice the cards for 1 is nuts with a voltaic key out. The best thing about Atlas is that you don't need an Engine to use it effectively. You can get 3-4 counters on it and use it to draw at the end of the opponents end step forcing them to potentially discard. Use it again during your upkeep/main phase and you have drawn 7+ cards allowing you to find a Paradox Engine and combo out that way. Sure, you can draw your opponent some hate potentially but you will have also drawn yourself much more gas. The thing about us both having 10 cards in hand is that we have the mana to use them all typically and they are forced to make one decision. Atlas also helps against control because we can draw many more threats than they will have mana to counter. You can bait their counterspells early while building board presence and then combo out once they have no mana left. Wildfire also helps in this situation if you fail drawing into an engine or it gets destroyed or something. Taking all of their mana away means the cards in their hand aren't useful and we are rarely hindered by it.
How is planar portal? I feel like it could work well ending games quickly, but what happens when your ramp is disrupted? I suppose that would be a reason for the sb Welding Jars. Do you not activate it until turn 4 usually? 12 mana to tutor seems too slow in my mind. Isn't that too late against aggressive decks? Wouldn't fair or control decks not let you cast it or destroy it before you can put it to use?
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3x Darksteel Citadel
4x Gemstone Mine
4x Glimmervoid
1x Inventors' Fair
5x Island
Artifacts
4x Astral Cornucopia
3x Chalice of the Void
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Ensnaring Bridge
4x Everflowing Chalice
4x Mox Opal
1x Otherworld Atlas
1x Paradox Engine
4x Surge Node
1x Trinisphere
1x Voltaic Key
4x Coretapper
Planeswalkers
2x Tezzeret the Seeker
Spells
4x Ancient Stirrings
4x Boom/Bust
1x Blue Sun's Zenith
3x Whir of Invention
4x Lodestone Golem
3x Leyline of Sanctity
3x Reality Smasher
2x Spellskite
1x Welding Jar
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Pithing Needle
OK it's been a few months with my above deck, I thought I would provide a tournament report from my last one locally. I went 1-2 but learned something valuable.
Match 1 was against some sort of Grull combo deck involving defenders with very little interaction. I went 2-0 here and both games I landed Tezzeret on T3 and was able to combo-victory on T4. Not much else to say here really other than the fact the deck worked exactly as advertised and due to the little information I had I didn't even bother sideboarding.
Match 2 was against one of the best players at our store who plays Skred Red. I knew this match-up would be tough but I had some weird confidence knowing he didn't splash white. Game 1 he won the die roll and durdled with Relic of Progenitus early-game. When he saw Coretapper he gave it a puzzled read for about 30 seconds and opted to immediately Skred it - I had an Astral in play and naturally sacrificed it. On turn 3 he passed with 3 lands untapped and I was able to cast Bust destroying all lands and then playing a land in response. Next turn I landed Trinisphere and it was just draw-go for a few turns until I was able to go off. At this point I was feeling really great and sideboarded in my creature package and removed all four of my Boom // Bust. This turned out to be a critical error as on Game 2 T1 I opened with 3 artifacts and in response he exiled Simian Spirit Guide and he completely blew me out with Shattering Spree. I wasn't able to recover and lost. Game 3 I flooded out and he took me out while taking his time using Koth.
Match 3 was against Esper Faeries. I play U/R Faeries and I was really dreading this match-up. Game 1 was close, he took me down on turn 7 or 8 with two Scion of Oona's and a few Spellstutter Sprites. Game 2 was .. T2 Stony Silence. Completely blowout victory for him.
What I learned here - and in similar match-ups and games I've played apart from FNM - is that our deck has serious game against A)Decks that do not pack enough good hate OR B)Do no possess a high density of 1-2 mana disruptive cards. In regards to B I feel we can fight that more effectively on our terms, but the hate is something that has to be resolved. For problem A, this is related to when they sideboard in the perfect hate for us - usually non-single target artifact disruption/removal. I'm looking at a few cards in my sideboard and wondering if perhaps we should not be including something like a discard suite of 7-8 Inquisitions and Thoughtseize effects and taking a highly proactive approach to our opponents sideboard plans. For those of you trying the Death Cloud versions of this deck I'm curious to know how well it's been working for you!
- Ghirapur Aether Grid
- Tezzeret Agent of Bolas,
- Tezzeret the Seeker
are ways we can still do something with the artifacts we have, and the problem with artifact removal hate cards, my best answer just is Monastery Siege which does a lot for me.But I also think, that how the deck handles threats and hate cards heavily depends on whatversion of the deck you run.
I think the more fast problem cards you can present to your opponent the weaker some hate cards get(is that understandable?)
We can do nasty things if our opponent lets us, but we have hard times when he knows what we do. That's one point why I play a more prison type build with mainboard blood moons Monastery siege wildfire along with the combo kill and Ugin, the spirit dragon.
Also blood moon is still castable even if our rocks are disrupted in any way.
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
4 Astral Cornucopia
4 Everflowing Chalice
4 Surge Node
1 Paradox Engine
1 Temple Bell
1 Batterskull
1 Aetherflux Reservoir
1 Mindslaver
1 Planar Portal
Creatures:
4 Coretapper
3 Glint-Nest Crane
Instants:
2 Whir of Invention
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Land:
3 Inventors' Fair
4 Spire of Industry
4 Glimmervoid
4 Tendo Ice Bridge
1 Gemstone Mine
1 Academy Ruins
1 Forest
2 Tolaria West
Sorcery:
4 Ancient Stirrings
3 Tezzeret's Gambit
4 Wildfire
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Welding Jar
2 Sun Droplet
1 Witchbane Orb
1 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Nature's Claim
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Crumble to Dust
1 Spellskite
Saturday
Round 1 – I had a hilarious first round because I think I found one of this deck’s most interesting matchups. Game 1, after Coretapper, he plays a Suppression Field. He was on Enduring Ideal and it was basically game over after Dovescape. I could come close to being able to pay the 16 mana to attack for lethal through Ghostly Prison and Sphere of Safety but he could just tutor for Oblivion Ring for the mana rock. In game 2, he found triple Stony Silence but no Ghostly Prison effects and I got there with Coretapper and Batterskull attacks. No game 3 because both of my teammates had won by that point.
Round 2 – Bant Eldrazi. Towards the end of game 1, staring down lethal on board, I topdecked Mindslaver to buy myself a turn and then topdecked Planar Portal to combo off. Game 2, he finds two Engineered Explosives on 0 to destroy my mana rocks and I am not able to do much. We had just started a game 3. My hand was not bad, but my second teammate loses before we get past turn 2 and we agree to not play it out. We actually got beat by bad seating because both of my teammates had unfavorable matchups that were favorable if they had been swapped but this team was also quite experienced and ended up winning the event.
Round 3 – Eldrazi Tron. Game 1 I make a lot of mana, but I don’t have an answer for Reality Smasher attacks. Game 2 I resolve Ensnaring Bridge and later a Wildfire. He is left with double Endbringer to clock me, but I have enough time to set up the combo. Game 3 I keep a bad hand with Crumble to Dust. He had a turn 3 with Tron up, but didn’t have one of his payoff cards. He has nothing to do after I resolve Wildfire. Game 3 he mulls his 7, has no lands on 6 or 5 and ends up keeping his 3.
Round 4 – Grixis Delve. Game 1, I didn’t play around early Mana Leak and eventually get beat down by Tasigur,the Golden Fang and Gurmag Angler. Game 2, I resolved an early Wildfire and then a second one to keep her off lands. A judge was watching me and told me I missed lethal when I could have tutored for Planar Portal but I miscalculated how much mana I could make. No game 3 because both of my teammates had lost by that point.
My record ends up being 1-0-3 and our team 1-3.
Sunday – Every entry to the main event came with a free entry to this side event, so I think this one was a little less competitive.
Round 1 – Affinity. Game 1, he has close to the nut draw, but on turn 4, at 1 life and 9 poison, I needed to draw any land to cast Wildfire and missed, though I wasn’t close to combo so I doubt I win the game even if I hit. Game 2, he has a much slower hand, I have a Nature’s Claim for Arcbound Ravager and then I have Wildfire on turn 4. He actually is able to rebuild a little bit, but I am able to find combo with very little pressure. No game 3 because both of my teammates had lost by that point.
Round 2 – Eldrazi Tron. Game 1, I find no Coretapper[/card or Surge Node but I have three Everflowing Chalice and an Astral Cornucopia after two draws so I start playing them naturally. I actually also naturally draw into all three pieces of the combo but I was a turn too slow and lose to Reality Smasher. Game 2, I keep a pretty solid hand but it was a one-lander and I don’t draw land and he turn 2 Thought-Knot Seer to take the Coretapper that made the hand keepable.
Round 3 – Zur the Enchanter Control. Game 1 is durdly, but a Zur the Enchanter with a Steel of the Godhead survives Wildfire which I wanted to play to keep him off lands. He ends up tutoring Detention Sphere for my mana rocks, which I hadn’t really thought about, so I don’t have the mana to combo and he gets the win. Game 2, I resolve turn 3 Wildfire and he doesn’t do much while I combo out. Game 2 was so long that we end up going to turns. I end up a bit short on mana to combo on turn 5 and take the draw but we agree that I easily win otherwise. My Skred Red teammate had received a 2 minute extension so they were not yet in extra turns and he actually wins within that extension and we get the match win.
Round 4 – I played an eight-year-old kid on Sigarda’s Aid combo but he had been playing for 2 years and actually understood what was happening with a few questions for his dad. Also, on turn 2, he had the following to say after seeing Surge Node into Astral Cornucopia: “I get it. If you make 50 charge counters, you win the game.” Which I think actually might be closer than all but one of my opponents to understanding what my gameplan is :).
He has a turn 3 lethal in game 1. In game 2, I have turn 4 Ugin which keeps his board clear of creatures and I am able to combo. In game 3, I have Ensnaring Bridge into the Mindslaver + Academy Ruins lock. After I demonstrated what would happen, he turned to his dad and says “I really hate this deck, but I want to play it” so I have high hopes for this guy.
My record was 1-1-2 and my team went 2-2 for a small prize payout. Team Unified Modern is an absolute blast. I think this is a sweet list and I am already thinking about a few modifications. I was not able to answer Reality Smasher/Tasigur/Gurmag Angler, so I am thinking of swapping in some Destructive Force for Wildfire.
I think I chose the right seat because 7 of my opponents really enjoyed the rogue jank deck and a lot of them asked me for the decklist (and one of my Saturday opponents told me that he was telling all of his opponents about it in the large Sunday Modern event) so hopefully, I have generated some influx of interest in this archetype. Thanks for reading!
Judge Tower: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/80859
I haven't been playing as much as I'd like recently with a busy work season, but want to get back into making videos and such.
With all of the diversified threats, did you find it hard to draw/tutor for the card that you need when you needed it?
The big x/5's are a problem for Wildfire for sure when they can come down so early.
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That's the way it goes. Would love to see the list. I am going to get back into the swing of things soon. I will be playing and reporting more, updating the first page a bit, etc.
My thoughts on Chalice of the Void and other symmetrical hate cards like blood moon have been expressed already in the thread I think. How often do you run into problems playing your own cards if you have to put chalice on 1 or 2?
Buried Ruin can be good, I prefer Academy Ruins in this slot.
Are there many x/1's that you want to deal with in the current meta? I usually found that it didn't do enough as removal and the proliferate was often times win-more. I really like Abrupt Decay in a slot like this as sort of a catch all early on. I also used to use Contagion Engine in a proliferate heavy build as like a 2 of. It seemed to help close out games with Lux Cannon nicely or poison counters from an Inkmoth Nexus. Throw some Voltaic Key's into the mix and baby you got a stew goin.
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The best part about the deck is that Game 1 is about as close to a bye as I've ever played in modern. Pretty much nobody is running main deck artifact and what removal there is usually isn't very effective as we have so many permanents in play & so quickly. My deck is still close to the same as posted earlier in this thread but I have added 2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon and one copy of Karn. I would say Karn is honestly not even that good but Ugin is a complete standout bomb which can be dropped earlier than your opponent might expect. The minus effect on Ugin is usually an immediate scoop which allows me to kind of say he's a win condition all his own, something this deck really lacks.
In my earlier iterations of this deck I was getting wiped out by discard spells but my three Leyline of Scantity actually seems to have completely resolved this problem to the point where even 8-Rack has a tough time. Currently I'm getting destroyed by Stoney Silence still but I have some plans for that.
Still a really fun deck and surprisingly effective strategy against mid-range decks and some combo decks but I have had a really hard time with aggressive decks or tempo-control decks like Faeries and Merfolk so it's by no means a picnic.
They can be meta choices based on what type of white decks you find yourself against. Against BW decks that also have discard, something like seal will perform better. Against non-discard decks I prefer a mix of nature's claim and abrupt decay.
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played a local small tournament with 3 rounds and went 2-1 in Games and went 4-3 in Singlematches. I played with the following list:
4 Everflowing Chalice
3 Surge node
3 Mox opal
4 Coretapper
3 Blood Moon
3 Monastery Siege
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Paradox Engine
3 Otherworld Atlas
1 Elixir of Immortality
4 Ancient Stirrings
3 Tezzeret's Gambit
1 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Wildfire
1 Destructive Force
3 Glimmervoid
3 Inventors' Fair
2 Spire of Industry
1 Ghost Quarter
5 Mountain
Sideboard:
In the first game I faced UWR Control
I played a rock and surge node and started putting counters on it, the I tried to play blood moon to pull a counter from his hand to cast wildfire next turn, he counters with cryptic and bounces my mana rock, after that he controls me with Ajani and Snapcaster cryptic shenanigans till he finishes me off with bolts Helixes and Gideon as a 6/6 creature.
I sided out 3 Monastery Siege 2 Tezzeret's Gambit and an Ancient Stirrings and a bridge for 4 Nature's claim 1 Krosan Grip 3 Defense Grid.
He mulls to 5 I have to mull to 5 he puts turn 2 Stony Silence into play I play defense grid, gets countered, i have Krosan grip in hand but never hit Glimmervoid or Spire of industry and he kills me with snapcaster and gideon rather quick.
result: Matches 0-2 Games: 0-1
Control is a very hard matchup, and after sideboard it's even worse. I probably sided bad here but I'm not sure what I could have sided otherwise... maybe cut the engine combo rather than the gambit's which could have helped dig for cards I needed.
Round 2 Bogles
She starts with t1 bogle, t2 ethereal Armor, I land a t2 Blood moon with Opal cornucopia surge node and darksteel citadel and she is left with only a basic plains, I wildfire 1 turn later followed by ugin and she scoops
Side:
-3 Siege
-2 Stirrings
-1 surge node
+4 Nature's claim
+1 Grip
+1 Bridge
Match 2
she starts with bogle supression field armor and daybreak coronet and I never get to cast wildfire, and hit Ugin where I haven't got the mana to use his -X abilty because of Suppression Field and die.
Match 3 I mull to 6 have a nice hand with glimmervoid mox opal surge node Stirrings land Nature's claim scrying an ensnaring bridge on top.
I start with opal glimmer surge node t1, she gets a bogle t1.
T2 I draw bridge stirrings for mana rock cast it for 0 put counter on it with node and pass.
she casts t2 Stony Silence my turn, I draw Inventor's fair play Claim put counter on rock pass. she casts etheral Armor and daybreak on Bogle and swings. My turn I draw an atlas play it and bridge. her turn she plays dryad arbor and passes the turn, EoT i put a charge counter on Atlas.
I get a life from Fair, draw blood moon, sac fair for Pardoxical Engine and play blood moon. she plays suppression field and I put a charge counter on Atlas
I draw Everflowing chalice, play paradoxical engine and the chalice on 1 untap, pay 2 to use Atlas and combo her out that turn.
Creature based decks seem rather good with bridges and Wildfire, also the combo kill is very nice.
Matches 2-1 Games 1-1
Round 3 against GBW homebrew (don't know what exactly he palyed)
I play a very good hand and explosive hand with a combo win on t4 without knowing what he does so I don't change anything in the deck.
second Match i have a decent hand with a t3 wildfire and kill him with the combo
I don't really remember what happened during the match, it's very vague because I was in a hurry because I had to go half an hour after the 3rd round started.
All in all the deck played well and had some explosive starts. I felt quite helpless against the control player but with counters in Match 1 and Stony in Match 2 I did the best I could, even if I may have boarded quite dumb/bad. Inventors' Fair is a must have in this deck.
Overall I think the deck seems quite good and also competitive. I have to work on the sideboard I think and I thought about what we could include to make the deck better or have other ways to make advantage of it and I thought about Brain in a Jar. In my build with Wildfire Tezzeret's Gambit and Stirrings it is quite nice to cast these things for 1, also the scry effect is a nice additional tool to maybe make our draws more smooth or better. it works nice with coretappers or Surge node. This may allow us to cast more instant and sorceries which couldn't otherwise be cast. Also a question would be if I cast a whir of Invention with it with lets say 7 counters on it would X be 3 then? because it doesn't say anything about spells with X in it.
A card I also consider is All is Dust.
And another question is for Blood Moon, do Nonbasic lands keep their Names and types? is Inventors Fair a legendary Mountain named Inventor's Fair or Mountain is darksteel Citadel still an artifact and dryad arbor still a creature? =)
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
I think there is no 1 list which is played at the moment, and in this thread there are many different lists, which all have their advantages and disadvantages.
depending on the list you want to play, there are several ways to deal with Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, personally I play a list with Wildfire in it to deal with all sorts of creatures. You can also play around Thalia just a bit slower by playing your rocks for 0 or 1 when Thalia is there and then put charge counters on the rocks as always. But I think Dismember is a good choice and with Astral Cornucopia and Mox Opal you also have the chance of not having to always pay 4 life, because sometimes you just can't afford to lose more life.
Mox Opal is a must have in this deck in my opinion, numbers of the card included in the deck may be different from player to player but for very explosive starts it is needed. And to cast colored spells like ancient stirrings it is also neccessary.
Voltaic Key is another card which is player dependend, personally I don't play it, but I had some situations where I wanted to have it or considered it to put it in the deck but I wasn't sure what to leave out for it.
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
All is Dust seems like it could have a place in the SB for sure.
Also thoughts on Temple Bell vs. Otherworld Atlas? Seems like giving the opponent multiple cards each pop could be bad in that there could be an answer in there. Rationale for each? Thanks.
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"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
I'm always just worried about the opponent digging deeper for an answer although it sounds like if you are comboing off there shouldn't be much worry. Looking forward to sleeving it up and playing it soon.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
All other disruption elements like Suppression Field, Stony Silence, Phyrexian Revoker or Pithing Needle can't come down on your turn. Maybe I'm overlooking something, but I can't remember one Situation where his digging was bad for me.
Problems could be in games 2 and 3 when Disenchant, Nature's Claim and such Artifact hate is boarded in, but mostly the enchantments are played.
Also in most games after the first you need to prepare for the Stony Silence kind of hate and board in enchantment hate yourself. I personally play 4 Nature's Claim and 1 Krosan Grip against the control Matchup.
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
That coretapper is so hot right now. I wonder if he is being used in another deck? Maybe just because seth played a list on mtggoldfish.
Modern
xWBAffinityBWx
BBBVampiresBBB
BURGDice FactoryGRUB
Check out the Primer!
Why not make this aggro and mud stomp people? Like turn 1 do your land, mox, coretapper,corn start then turn 2 drop thought not or endbringer or something? All that other cute stuff could be cut out so fast and just have the best most beats plan evar.
I wanted to play a different and unique deck like this so I will stay with the "durdle" around. And I have to say, after playing the version I play, it doesn't just durdle around it wins quite often
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
I've been tinkering with a Paradox Engine/Otherworld Atlas/Coretapper Ramp myself before I landed here (and added Wildfire, I was mainly playing mono-blue before). I tried several builds, several colors with more or less success. The community in Oslo is rather small, mostly withe an establish meta (Burn, Shadow, BW Eldrazi, Tron etc - Tiers 1 mostly) and I'm one of the few that try to bring crazy brews at the tables. Like this one.
I've been in a tournament this weekend and a Judge took a photo of the board state when a Wildfire was casted :). Opponent responded with a Kolagan's Command (targeting Wurmcoil and Paradox engine), responding with a Path on Wurmcoil, triggered Paradox engine, tap my artifacts once more... When everything was depiled, pumped Atlas to 12 counters to fetch for my second Elixir. Cracked on opponent's turn and finish milling him out.
That was fun! But this kind of plays only happen on the last table in a tournament...
I don't have any Mox Opal and it's a HUGE drawback for this deck. I'm always one turn too late for Wildfire. I'm actually thinking they're mandatory.
I was playing a red shell (Wildfire + Moon) with a splash of white the flipping Stony Silence (and life gain for Burn). And even with 3 Fragmentize and 2 Disenchant, the white enchantment is hard to circumvent... Taking collateral damage for Affinity is kinda hard :p. Any Duress-like effect is also very hard on us but I tried to valorise Trash for Treasure trading a Surge Node for a combo piece in these cases. Let's say "it's cute"
In fact, the most "winning" (or "not die now") cards of this build were Wurmcoil Engine and the Moons, not the fun mill...
Match Results:
BW eldrazi: 1-2 (it's actually a favorable match-up for the wildfire)
Burn: 1-2
Home brew combo: 0-2
UR Storm: 0-2
Young Pyromancer Tokens: 2-1
Lantern Control: 0-2
The played list:
3 Paradox Engine
3 Otherworld Atlas
3 Surge Node
4 Astral Cornucopia
3 Everflowing Chalice
4 Tezzeret's Gambit
2 Elixir of Immortality
2 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Wildfire
2 Magus of the Moon
1 Blood Moon
2 Path to Exile
2 Trash for Treasure
4 Plains
9 Mountain
1 Arid Mesa
2 Inspiring Vantage
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Inventors' Fair
3 Fragmentize
3 Rest for the Weary
2 Disenchant
2 Pithing Needle
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Mindbreak Trap