Some result notes:
I don't know how to account for the amount of mana screw I have had lately. 25 lands and I have had 8 games out of ~20 not able to get past 3 lands before dying.
Needle Spires is a great way to use mana when we flood. I came back against E-ron with Thalia + Spires able to double block with first strike on everything on his board except Smasher. He had 2 TKS, 2 Reshaper, Smasher, and I had TGoT, Arbiter, and Spires with activation mana. I double blocked TKS, drew Smasher, played it, trade Smashers and an Arbiter for a Reshaper (he bricked), double blocked TKS again (he should not have attacked, and landed Displacer. He was at 18 and I was at 2 and I got there because Spires, TGoT and Displacer are absurd.
I missed targeted removal against Storm for sure.
3 Eldrazi Obligator was greedy. Going back to a 2-1 split, since Matter Reshaper card advantage is too good to pass up. Also, Sweltering Suns plays better with Reshaper than Anger of the Gods.
Quick (sic) explanation
Main deck: Dismember as a 1-of seems best. Better than Cast Out most games, especially in RW because I can bring in Nahiri post-board as more value.
2/1 Reshaper/Obligator split, see above.
-1 Hub, +1 Sacred Foundry, but I was so happy with Spires that I am considering risking a second one.
Sideboard:
There just is no replacement for Path to Exile out of the sideboard. I am happy-ish with Sweltering Suns main; at least, as happy as I was with 3 Dismember.
Settle/EE because each one has a certain value level against a wide range of aggressive decks. I think EE is even better against Merfolk now because they are now heavily invested in cmc 2 and they get out of the range of Suns and K-Return quickly.
Struggling with the 15th sideboard card. Things I am considering:
- Elspeth, Sun's Champion (sweeper and finisher, good for those BGx matches)
- Kozilek's Return vs. Sweltering Suns #3 (we have discussed K-Return, and it has limits, but is it good enough for certain matches, like Affinity and Merfolk because of instant speed and colorless, to make it the 4th sweeper, versus cycle 3 and 3 damage from Suns?)
I've been playing this deck for about a month and been doing pretty well with it online and at my LGS. Just thought I'd post my list here to see if other people were still playing it.
For those wondering, Sword of Body and Mind is supposed to help out with 'go wide' strategies like Merfolk and CoCo. Just picked it up so I haven't had much chance to use it. Definitely find those MU's unwinnable so suggestions are welcome! Also having trouble with ETron.
Thorn of Amethyst is my replacement for Chalice as I don't have them but TBH it's a pretty great substitute. Doesn't totally shut down decks like Storm but it does give you a good enough chance to win most of the time. Also is better against Grishoalbrand than Chalice, which is a deck people play a lot in my meta. I will likely get the Chalices at some point though.
what is up everyone! ...fellow Death & STAXES pilots. Ever since the printing of Ramunap and now Field of Ruin, I've been wanting to go back to Selesnya Taxes. I was on that version for a long time, actually. However, for the Modern format in specific, I still find it extremely difficult to let go of Gemstone Caverns & Simian Spirit Guide. Heck, I've even been boarding in the 4th Gemstone on the draw for a while now...
If the 5C Humans deck is more than a flash in the pan, that is one ugly match. They have a huge tool set, Vial, and ways to blank our removal, and I don't think we can outrace them most games. It is close in aggression levels to Merfolk, with even greater effect versatility than Spirits. Three cards were crucial to this deck: Kitesail Freebooter aka Human Tidehollow Sculler, Unclaimed Territory (upping their mana to 12 lands that tapped for any color of human...), and an oldie but goodie, Meddling Mage. I'm guessing their closest thing to a nightmare right now is Blood Moon, which can still be faded with Aether Vial, Noble Hierarch and Meddling Mage.
That said, we are probably better positioned against them than either Bant Eldrazi or Eldrazi Tron because we are more aggressive and disruptive. They have 0 answers to Worship; the problem is that we might never be able to attack through them. They are soft to early land destruction and sweepers, but if we can't capitalize on that, we lose against them the longer the game goes on. Eldrazi Displacer is a champion in this match, but if they are smart, they name it with Meddling Mage. Engineered Explosive on 2, 1, and 3, in that order, looks fantastic.
UG Merfolk is much more aggressive than the UU version, and 4 Merrow Reejeray/4 Harbinger of the Tides gives them a lot of creature management. They both go wide and have Islandwalk-enablers. Nominally, Chalice is better since 1 and 2 hit almost everything and Engineered Explosives is better on 2.
The Modern Open was very interesting overall:
- 5 decks in Top 8 were "rogue", Top 8 had 8 different decks, and top 24 had 15 unique decks.
- Top 8 was DnT, BW Eldrazi and Taxes, Infect, 5C Humans, UG Merfolk, Storm, Affinity, GW CoCo.
- 5C and 4C Death's Shadow did better than Grixis.
- Eldrazi Tron squeaked into Top 32 in the 32 slot. Storm and the rogue decks continue to find consistent answers to it. Sure, they were all over the Classic, but the Classic was largely innovation-free, since all the neat stuff was in the Open.
- 4 of the Top 8 were Aether Vial decks!
- 3, maybe 4, of the Top 8 decks could kill you turns 3-4.
- Humans went 17-0-1 and the 1 was an ID.
Looking at that, I don't see how we can avoid finding a way to incorporate sweepers. Storm and Infect were literally the only decks there that wouldn't go wide on us with creatures. If we can't figure that out, I don't know how this deck manages this meta, assuming 5C Humans UG Merfolk continues to put up top results (and Merfolk has done so with decidedly sub-par lists and less than stellar play, since Jeremy Bertarioni made a gross misplay in the semis and otherwise likely would have won and been in the finals against his teammate Collins Mullen, who won it all.)
Thalia and Thorn are definitely hilarious. I get good reactions from opponents when I stick Thorn turn one with SSG or Gemstone Caverns and then Thalia turn two
Pia and Kiran Nalaar is great for solving stalled board states and top deck wars. Often against BGx and E-Tron where they can be as big as us. It also combos really well with Eldrazi Displacer. I find that I get close to winning those MU's but don't quite make it before they're able to stick a Goyf, the fliers are often enough to finish the game off. I suspect it could be good against Merfolk as well but I haven't had the chance to play it against that deck.
This one feels like a long shot but against decks that go wide what about Silent Arbiter as a two of in the sideboard? I haven't tried it but I just stumbled upon while looking for possible solutions against that MU.
Interesting card skeeler87. Similar to Worship. Worth a try IMO. It works quite well with Displacer as you can protect it, blink the attacker or the blocker if you attack with Smasher.
Taking this to Baltimore, I was going to be the Legacy guy, but life intervened and three different people dropping from the team later... I am the Modern guy. It really came down to UG Merfolk, Humans or this and I feel like this is very well positioned still and it is the deck I by far have the most hours with.
I'm going 3-deep on EE. Red is essentially now only for Nahiri, Needle Spires, and the one-off SSG played as a creature. I really enjoy having a man land against a variety of decks because it complicates their math considerably. I was considering Pia and Kirran Nalaar, as it is a card I do enjoy, but every time I want to play double mana symbol cards, I get punished. Settle, however, feels worth it as a 1-of.
My plan against Humans and Merfolk is a combination of EE, Settle, and Worship.
EDIT:
Played last night, beat Jeskai Control 2-1 and Storm 2-0, lost to Infect (they had the nut draws both games and I still only lost by one turn) and then played 6 games against 5C Humans and went 5-1. Post-board, they basically cannot beat Worship. Settle the Wreckage was a huge blowout against them. Path is essentially a better Swords to Plowshares because they have 1 basic Plains. They are also super soft to Leonin Arbiter into GQ if they don't have Vial out. I feel much better about this match.
Engineered Explosives was literally always what I wanted to see outside of Control and even there it is fine on 2 (Azcanta, Snapcaster, Spreading Seas) game 1.
The deck performed as it usually does. My teammates had a bad day, so we went 3-3 and dropped. I was 4-2, but I couldn't feel bad about my losses.
Round 1 vs. Ad Nauseum 2-1
It's Ad Nauseum. More or less a free win if you hit disruption. I did in 2 games and didn't in 1.
Round 2 vs. Storm 2-0
Again, find disruption. Turns out they can't win if they can't get Eidolon off the board. Chalice on 2 is amazing, but expect them to blow up Chalice ASAP. You cannot rely on not alone. You want the fourfold hate: Thalia, Eidolon, Chalice on 2, RiP.
Round 3 vs. TitanShift 1-2
I hate losing this match because it is so good for us, but variance is a thing. Leonin Arbiter is your hero, and THC and THKS are really important too. Even TGoT is good to slow them down a bit. Chalice on 0. Engineered Explosives is terrible, and so is Dismember, so you have 3 easy cards to side out. I brought in Eidolon and Worship, which isn't great but if you somehow get a bunch of creatures out, they have to use triggers to kill creatures and you, so not the worst, but not great. I had a mulligan to 5 that was terrible in game 3, and my opponent had pretty much everything (turn out she hit 8 lands with Pact and Scapeshift in hand...) It happens.
Round 4 vs. Eldrazi tron 2-1
The main thing with them is to keep them off Tron. Sure, they can still do stuff, since a bunch of their cards are the same as our cards, but Eldrazi Displacer with Thought-Knot Seer can pretty much ruin them by poaching their hand. Stony Silence was great because it stops some key parts of their deck. Hope to avoid natural Tron into Karn, as that is really the only thing they do that I find hard to overcome.
Round 5 vs. Affinity 2-1
Who is on the play is kind of huge. I was on the play games 1 and 3 and I was able to use that. Game 3, I had Chalice on 0 and 2, Worship, and Stony Silence in play, plus a Thalia, Heretic Cathar. They don't really come back from that. Note to self: when they have 3 Darksteel Citadel in play and finally land an Inkmoth Nexus, do not GQ the Nexus. It gives them a mountain for Galvanic Blast. Probably my worst mistake of the day.
Round 6 vs. Ponza 0-2
No idea how we beat this deck without the perfect sequence of draws. Chalice is mediocre, but you don't want them dropping mana dorks and Bolting your guys. All their really relevant spells cost 3-4 and are Blood Moon + land destruction, and their Inferno Titans are nearly impossible to deal with. It's just not a deck we can beat without turn 2 TKS, turn 3 Smasher, maybe Turn 4 Smasher. I brought in Nahiri and did remove a Blood Moon, but I was still Titan'd into oblivion.
I don't actually feel like I made too many play mistakes. The Affinity goof was one. I think I should have mulliganed from 6 to 5 in Game 2 of the TitanShift match because my six was pretty slow and non-disruptive. I think that was the only one that possibly cost me a match.
The deck felt good. I obviously missed my usual 1-of Aven Mindcensor, but what can you do?
Needle Spires won me a game where I was flooding hard, though I had a couple matches where the land coming in tapped was awkward, but not ultimately too disruptive.
I was able to use EE against Storm, and in general the wealth of spot removal really made it hard on them.
Don't know what I would change. I am not going to adjust to fight Ponza. I could see, as always, going to 1 Aven Mindcensor, but that is it. Deck was tight.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard
Tempo Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Ive been playing a crucible in the side lately and its felt pretty nice with horizon canopy.
Im trying two smuggler copter in the spot of matter reshaper and the loot effect has been helpful.
@jack wilds
I don't mind Smuggler's Copter, but I constantly find that Thalia, Heretic Cathar is the card I want to replace. Every time I take out Matter Reshaper, I find myself in those matches where a colorless 3/2 cast with only two lands on the board that potentially replaces itself is just so much value that I take a quick trip to Regretsville. THC, on the other hand, is amazing on turns 1-3, but singularly lackluster the longer the game goes. By turn 5, I think THC is actively worse than Reshaper since she is often a blocker with little to no value. That isn't to say that I haven't beaten control trying to play their 5th land as a fetch and suddenly it comes in tapped and I win. Those happen and they are glorious, but they don't happen often enough.
I do wonder if we play enough cheap threats to get full Copter value. Copter shines in decks with lots of cmc 1-2 cards and some 3s that are not good attackers, but we play 0 1 drops and 7 2 drops, so it ultimately comes down to: flying and loot. Don't get me wrong, it seems great when your other creature is TGoT or Arbiter, facing some x/3+ ground pounders.
Well, something to think about.
has anyone else on the thread used them recently?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard
Tempo Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
@redtwister Yeah, I tend to like copter slightly more than reshaper,but it's pretty close. It's just that copter has evasion and can take over the game if not answered. The only creature that can't really crew it imo is smasher. It just gives a lot of your dudes pseudo haste/ unblockability.
I wouldn't cut big thalia though. I might even try to up the number of her to 3 with copter as she's just that good. Granted, the meta seems to be moving back towards bolt, so perhaps she's worse than she was.
Jammed some games last night, 3-0 at my locals, drew into 1st place for the 4th round, but it would have been Affinity, so it likely would have been 4-0.
Highlights:
Round 1, game 2, mull to 4 against Ad Nauseaum, still win. Stony Silence on turn 2 like a boss.
Round 2, game 1, Infect opponent mis-counts and deals 9 infect to me, Eldrazi Displacer + THC hold the line, win the game.
Round 3, game 3, vs. Grixis Death's Shadow, turn 1 Leonin Arbiter on the play. He plays a fetchland and proceeds to lose to the king of hatebears.
Copter was interesting, but I don't know if I actually like it. I didn't like tapping out two creatures to attack with one, it feels limiting on defense, though it is okay when we are the beatdown. It would probably feel better against Control than it did in those matches, where I was the control deck and they were the beatdown.
Dropped the Wr build, I think I just prefer the extra Worship, Elspeth, and Settle the Wreckage. Also, it actually gives me more flexibility on colored mana for EE.
Also testing 24 lands. Might be too greedy, but not nearly as bad with WW.
Update...
Since Lantern Control is really, really a deck now, I am swapping a singleton Path to Exile for Kataki, War's Wage. It is fine against Affinity, which is already a decent match, but given that my build is fairly dependent on Engineered Explosives, which has to come out post-sideboard against Lantern, it gives an out. I don't want to reduce my Stony Silence count because of various Tron decks where it is pretty huge, as well as various combo decks that pop up from time to time. It does also make me feel better about adding the two Aven Mindcensor since they jazz up Whir of Invention.
My locals last week included Ad Naus, Mono-Green Tron, Eldrazi Tron and Lantern, and with all of those except Ad Naus going up in competitive play at bigger events that is my justification.
That might mean taking out Smuggler's Copter, though I was hoping to test it against Jeskai Control where it feels like it ought to be very good.
Well, I know this isn't really that active any longer, but here is my latest and thoughts on sideboarding. feel free to correct sideboard decisions and fill in gaps.
When do you side out some SSG and/or Reality Smasher?
I am actually moving towards a mid-range build because I think the format is difficult for the Staxes build and I want to test Ravenous Chupacabra. I could be wrong, of course.
SpiderSpace did nicely with a build recently, would love to hear from him on how his sideboard felt with lots of not Path to Exile removal.
I felt sideboarding into nonbos was awkward. While there are matchups where you want path and not chalice, they're not always a 1 for 1 exchange. A good example of that is vs death's shadow where you want both cards. declaration in stone is just a nice decent broad answer for tokens as well as other decks. Occasionally, I've brought it in with stony so they don't get the upside (it has to be a MU where the OP plays some amount of artifacts of course).
To be honest, there aren't a lot of matchups where I felt a really missed path. I'm bringing in other hate for storm which really loves something like counters company as a bad MU. I already am jamming cage, but let's face it, it's probably just a poor MU.
I like worship in this meta. Humans is difficult otherwise. The walkers are anti control/midrange cards. Otherwise, I think my SB hate is pretty reasonable/standard.
@axman
The originator of the deck back in December of 2016, Stabil0, used Gemstone Caverns but went with Simian Spirit Guide (maybe in place of Serum Powder??) to achieve velocity. The deck is essentially a prison aggro deck, where the goal is to land a lock in the first two turns and then begin casting threats, but it is also quite possible to get out threats very quickly which are also disruptive, in the form of THC and TKS on turn 2 (sometimes turn 1) and then deploy disruptive elements.
He and a few others of us have had some very good success online and locally (I play in Baltimore, which has a very competitive local scene), and I have missed day 2 at two opens by 1 match with the deck, and I assume that is because I'm just a middling player and I made mistakes that cost me incremental advantage. This deck lives and dies by small decisions that are not always obvious, much like Death and Taxes in Legacy. Much like that deck, this deck has a very high learning curve and punishes and rewards in equally extreme measure bad and good decisions.
Stabil0 has mentioned to SpiderSpace and I that he is taking a break from Magic and may or may not be back, but SpiderSpace and I both think that the deck has legs and remains a powerful and really under-played deck.
- It tends to prey on the decks like Death's Shadow, Burn (I don't know about anyone else, but I have yet to drop a single match against Burn), non-creature combo, Amulet Titan, Infect, and Tron;
- has a 50/50-ish match against Uxx Control (slightly worse now, actually), BGx Midrange (disappearing from the meta), Scapeshift (it all comes down to Arbiter + GQ), Affinity, and
- has serious problems with creature combo (GW Coco-Chord, Elves), Go-Wide Creatures (Merfolk, Spirits, Humans), Blood Moon.dec (Blue Moon, Ponza, and Rx Prison), and other Eldrazi mid-range decks (Bant, BW, E-Tron) all of which are much less prominent in the meta now. These are the decks that don't care about Thalia, Chalice, and Arbiter, typically, and then which match us or do much better than us with removal and creatures and tech.
That's why we have spent more time on sideboard discussions on this list than almost everything else. A very large part of the changes to the main deck were about ways to bolster the sideboard options. There is little question that WW is the best maindeck, but it is also less resilient against our weak spots (or maybe was).
You can see what is obvious to keep:
3 Stony Silence for Tron, Affinity, and Lantern. Complete no brainer.
You absolutely neeed graveyard hate, HOWEVER... 6 months ago I would have said that 2 Rest in Peace was an absolute given before, but now I am testing 3 Grafdigger's Cage not as a supplement, but as completely replacing it. We already trample on Death's Shadow; Dredge and Reanimate decks can't beat RiP or Cage; both hinder Storm and Control, but supplement our strategies; and Goyf is almost non-existent in Modern. On the other hand, Cage is much better against Company-Chord decks. RiP has two major benefits as I see it: 1) it actually does get rid of the graveyard, so if you lose it it isn't like there are cards left to play and 2) enchantments are much more resilient in Modern than Artifacts.
After that, IMO it is a toss up.
Worship is the most common other addition, in no small part because if you resolve it the go-wide decks typically can't win if they don't run creatures that destroy your creatures or enchantment hate (back to the resiliency of enchantments in Modern). I think SpiderSpace is right that this is a 2-of. Against a lot of decks, it just means they can't beat us.
The correct sideboard removal package is a hot topic, as you can see from the last couple posts alone. Path to Exile is unmatched in efficiency, but it is a nonbo with Chalice most of the time, so what do you do? There is a variety of less-good 2 mana removal that still has upsides. Given what we lose to, I am not even convinced that targeted removal is the right thing to do instead of Settle the Wreckage or Wrath to Exile, as the joke goes. That said, PtE and other targeted removal are offensive spells that allow us to pursue our gameplan, rather than StW, which is defensive and reactive. Fiddling with the mana a small amount (replace some Plains with Caves of Koilos) also allows you to efficiently rely on Engineered Explosives on 0, 1 and 2 and even get to 3 once in a while, but it can also be a nonbo with RiP and Cage and our own creatures. I pushed the RW build in order to see if we could make Anger of the Gods work, we were that desperate to find an out to Chord and Creature builds. Typically, people run 3-4 additional removal spells in the side, with Cast Out being particularly flexible as a 1-of.
Planeswalkers have been and on and off decision for dealing with Control. Let's face it, resolve Elspeth (either one, quite often) against Control and the entire game shifts. Resolve her against Mid-range decks and they can't get through an army of 1/1 soldiers.
Various means of shoring up certain combo and control matches come up as well, the core two card choices being Aven Mindcensor and Eidolon of Rhetoric. I have also been known to be a proponent of Linvala, Keeper of Silence. That ought to single-handedly win you the creature combo matches (Elves, GW, Kiki-Jiki), and she is value against Mid-range Eldrazi.
After that, well, that's mostly it.
Things I plan to test: Damping Matrix: Shuts off Affinity, Tron, and Lantern Control, but also means that Counters Company/Bant Toolbox cannot activate the following cards: Duskwatch Recruiter, Devoted Druid (no -1/-1 untap, so it is a 2 mana Llanowar Elves), Walking Ballista, Scavenging Ooze, Qasali Pridemage, Knight of the Reliquary. It shuts off our own Eldrazi Displacer, but that is a bad card in the match anyway. As a nice side effect, it also turns off Ezuri and Heritage Druid in Elves.
Vryn Wingmare: 2nd or third Thalia is good, right? I just wonder if this is too slow and win-more in the matches where it ought to be good.
Cards I have tested that were 'Meh' Torpor Orb/Hushwing Gryff/Tocatli Honor Guard: Sure it only hits four of our cards, but it just isn't doing enough to make up for turning off TKS.
@axman
The originator of the deck back in December of 2016, Stabil0, used Gemstone Caverns but went with Simian Spirit Guide (maybe in place of Serum Powder??) to achieve velocity. The deck is essentially a prison aggro deck, where the goal is to land a lock in the first two turns and then begin casting threats, but it is also quite possible to get out threats very quickly which are also disruptive, in the form of THC and TKS on turn 2 (sometimes turn 1) and then deploy disruptive elements.
He and a few others of us have had some very good success online and locally (I play in Baltimore, which has a very competitive local scene), and I have missed day 2 at two opens by 1 match with the deck, and I assume that is because I'm just a middling player and I made mistakes that cost me incremental advantage. This deck lives and dies by small decisions that are not always obvious, much like Death and Taxes in Legacy. Much like that deck, this deck has a very high learning curve and punishes and rewards in equally extreme measure bad and good decisions.
Stabil0 has mentioned to SpiderSpace and I that he is taking a break from Magic and may or may not be back, but SpiderSpace and I both think that the deck has legs and remains a powerful and really under-played deck.
- It tends to prey on the decks like Death's Shadow, Burn (I don't know about anyone else, but I have yet to drop a single match against Burn), non-creature combo, Amulet Titan, Infect, and Tron;
- has a 50/50-ish match against Uxx Control (slightly worse now, actually), BGx Midrange (disappearing from the meta), Scapeshift (it all comes down to Arbiter + GQ), Affinity, and
- has serious problems with creature combo (GW Coco-Chord, Elves), Go-Wide Creatures (Merfolk, Spirits, Humans), Blood Moon.dec (Blue Moon, Ponza, and Rx Prison), and other Eldrazi mid-range decks (Bant, BW, E-Tron) all of which are much less prominent in the meta now. These are the decks that don't care about Thalia, Chalice, and Arbiter, typically, and then which match us or do much better than us with removal and creatures and tech.
That's why we have spent more time on sideboard discussions on this list than almost everything else. A very large part of the changes to the main deck were about ways to bolster the sideboard options. There is little question that WW is the best maindeck, but it is also less resilient against our weak spots (or maybe was).
You can see what is obvious to keep:
3 Stony Silence for Tron, Affinity, and Lantern. Complete no brainer.
You absolutely neeed graveyard hate, HOWEVER... 6 months ago I would have said that 2 Rest in Peace was an absolute given before, but now I am testing 3 Grafdigger's Cage not as a supplement, but as completely replacing it. We already trample on Death's Shadow; Dredge and Reanimate decks can't beat RiP or Cage; both hinder Storm and Control, but supplement our strategies; and Goyf is almost non-existent in Modern. On the other hand, Cage is much better against Company-Chord decks. RiP has two major benefits as I see it: 1) it actually does get rid of the graveyard, so if you lose it it isn't like there are cards left to play and 2) enchantments are much more resilient in Modern than Artifacts.
After that, IMO it is a toss up.
Worship is the most common other addition, in no small part because if you resolve it the go-wide decks typically can't win if they don't run creatures that destroy your creatures or enchantment hate (back to the resiliency of enchantments in Modern). I think SpiderSpace is right that this is a 2-of. Against a lot of decks, it just means they can't beat us.
The correct sideboard removal package is a hot topic, as you can see from the last couple posts alone. Path to Exile is unmatched in efficiency, but it is a nonbo with Chalice most of the time, so what do you do? There is a variety of less-good 2 mana removal that still has upsides. Given what we lose to, I am not even convinced that targeted removal is the right thing to do instead of Settle the Wreckage or Wrath to Exile, as the joke goes. That said, PtE and other targeted removal are offensive spells that allow us to pursue our gameplan, rather than StW, which is defensive and reactive. Fiddling with the mana a small amount (replace some Plains with Caves of Koilos) also allows you to efficiently rely on Engineered Explosives on 0, 1 and 2 and even get to 3 once in a while, but it can also be a nonbo with RiP and Cage and our own creatures. I pushed the RW build in order to see if we could make Anger of the Gods work, we were that desperate to find an out to Chord and Creature builds. Typically, people run 3-4 additional removal spells in the side, with Cast Out being particularly flexible as a 1-of.
Planeswalkers have been and on and off decision for dealing with Control. Let's face it, resolve Elspeth (either one, quite often) against Control and the entire game shifts. Resolve her against Mid-range decks and they can't get through an army of 1/1 soldiers.
Various means of shoring up certain combo and control matches come up as well, the core two card choices being Aven Mindcensor and Eidolon of Rhetoric. I have also been known to be a proponent of Linvala, Keeper of Silence. That ought to single-handedly win you the creature combo matches (Elves, GW, Kiki-Jiki), and she is value against Mid-range Eldrazi.
After that, well, that's mostly it.
Things I plan to test: Damping Matrix: Shuts off Affinity, Tron, and Lantern Control, but also means that Counters Company/Bant Toolbox cannot activate the following cards: Duskwatch Recruiter, Devoted Druid (no -1/-1 untap, so it is a 2 mana Llanowar Elves), Walking Ballista, Scavenging Ooze, Qasali Pridemage, Knight of the Reliquary. It shuts off our own Eldrazi Displacer, but that is a bad card in the match anyway.
Vryn Wingmare: 2nd or third Thalia is good, right? I just wonder if this is too slow and win-more in the matches where it ought to be good.
Cards I have tested that were 'Meh' Torpor Orb/Hushwing Gryff/Tocatli Honor Guard: Sure it only hits four of our cards, but it just isn't doing enough to make up for turning off TKS.
Ah that makes sense. I actually started with a very similar list but I have since given up on the chalice + spirit guide.
Is this still a correct place to discuss it? Below is a deck list for reference. So far I've played two friendly leagues on MTGO and went 3-2 both times (loosing vs suicide grixis x2 and the D&T mirror).
I don't know how to account for the amount of mana screw I have had lately. 25 lands and I have had 8 games out of ~20 not able to get past 3 lands before dying.
Aether Hub is a dumpster fire. Just don't do it.
Needle Spires is a great way to use mana when we flood. I came back against E-ron with Thalia + Spires able to double block with first strike on everything on his board except Smasher. He had 2 TKS, 2 Reshaper, Smasher, and I had TGoT, Arbiter, and Spires with activation mana. I double blocked TKS, drew Smasher, played it, trade Smashers and an Arbiter for a Reshaper (he bricked), double blocked TKS again (he should not have attacked, and landed Displacer. He was at 18 and I was at 2 and I got there because Spires, TGoT and Displacer are absurd.
I missed targeted removal against Storm for sure.
3 Eldrazi Obligator was greedy. Going back to a 2-1 split, since Matter Reshaper card advantage is too good to pass up. Also, Sweltering Suns plays better with Reshaper than Anger of the Gods.
Revised deck:
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Reality Smasher
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Matter Reshaper
1 Eldrazi Obligator
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
Lands (25)
3 Plains
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Needle Spires
3 Gemstone Caverns
1 Rugged Prairie
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Inspiring Vantage
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Sweltering Suns
1 Dismember
3 Stony Silence
3 Path to Exile
2 Rest in Peace
2 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Nahiri, the Harbinger
1 Worship
1 Settle the Wreckage
1 Engineered Explosives
Quick (sic) explanation
Main deck:
Dismember as a 1-of seems best. Better than Cast Out most games, especially in RW because I can bring in Nahiri post-board as more value.
2/1 Reshaper/Obligator split, see above.
-1 Hub, +1 Sacred Foundry, but I was so happy with Spires that I am considering risking a second one.
Sideboard:
There just is no replacement for Path to Exile out of the sideboard. I am happy-ish with Sweltering Suns main; at least, as happy as I was with 3 Dismember.
Settle/EE because each one has a certain value level against a wide range of aggressive decks. I think EE is even better against Merfolk now because they are now heavily invested in cmc 2 and they get out of the range of Suns and K-Return quickly.
Struggling with the 15th sideboard card. Things I am considering:
- Elspeth, Sun's Champion (sweeper and finisher, good for those BGx matches)
- Kozilek's Return vs. Sweltering Suns #3 (we have discussed K-Return, and it has limits, but is it good enough for certain matches, like Affinity and Merfolk because of instant speed and colorless, to make it the 4th sweeper, versus cycle 3 and 3 damage from Suns?)
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
I've been playing this deck for about a month and been doing pretty well with it online and at my LGS. Just thought I'd post my list here to see if other people were still playing it.
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Thalia,Heretic Cathar
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Matter Reshaper
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
Spells (7)
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Path to Exile
4 Battlefield Forge
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Needle Spires
2 Plains
1 Rugged Prairie
2 Sacred Foundry
1 Wastes
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Worship
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Eldrazi Obligator
1 Nahiri, The Harbinger
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Sword of Body and Mind
For those wondering, Sword of Body and Mind is supposed to help out with 'go wide' strategies like Merfolk and CoCo. Just picked it up so I haven't had much chance to use it. Definitely find those MU's unwinnable so suggestions are welcome! Also having trouble with ETron.
Thorn of Amethyst is my replacement for Chalice as I don't have them but TBH it's a pretty great substitute. Doesn't totally shut down decks like Storm but it does give you a good enough chance to win most of the time. Also is better against Grishoalbrand than Chalice, which is a deck people play a lot in my meta. I will likely get the Chalices at some point though.
How are you finding Pia and Kirran Nalaar? What do you like it against?
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
If the 5C Humans deck is more than a flash in the pan, that is one ugly match. They have a huge tool set, Vial, and ways to blank our removal, and I don't think we can outrace them most games. It is close in aggression levels to Merfolk, with even greater effect versatility than Spirits. Three cards were crucial to this deck: Kitesail Freebooter aka Human Tidehollow Sculler, Unclaimed Territory (upping their mana to 12 lands that tapped for any color of human...), and an oldie but goodie, Meddling Mage. I'm guessing their closest thing to a nightmare right now is Blood Moon, which can still be faded with Aether Vial, Noble Hierarch and Meddling Mage.
That said, we are probably better positioned against them than either Bant Eldrazi or Eldrazi Tron because we are more aggressive and disruptive. They have 0 answers to Worship; the problem is that we might never be able to attack through them. They are soft to early land destruction and sweepers, but if we can't capitalize on that, we lose against them the longer the game goes on. Eldrazi Displacer is a champion in this match, but if they are smart, they name it with Meddling Mage. Engineered Explosive on 2, 1, and 3, in that order, looks fantastic.
UG Merfolk is much more aggressive than the UU version, and 4 Merrow Reejeray/4 Harbinger of the Tides gives them a lot of creature management. They both go wide and have Islandwalk-enablers. Nominally, Chalice is better since 1 and 2 hit almost everything and Engineered Explosives is better on 2.
The Modern Open was very interesting overall:
- 5 decks in Top 8 were "rogue", Top 8 had 8 different decks, and top 24 had 15 unique decks.
- Top 8 was DnT, BW Eldrazi and Taxes, Infect, 5C Humans, UG Merfolk, Storm, Affinity, GW CoCo.
- 5C and 4C Death's Shadow did better than Grixis.
- Eldrazi Tron squeaked into Top 32 in the 32 slot. Storm and the rogue decks continue to find consistent answers to it. Sure, they were all over the Classic, but the Classic was largely innovation-free, since all the neat stuff was in the Open.
- 4 of the Top 8 were Aether Vial decks!
- 3, maybe 4, of the Top 8 decks could kill you turns 3-4.
- Humans went 17-0-1 and the 1 was an ID.
Looking at that, I don't see how we can avoid finding a way to incorporate sweepers. Storm and Infect were literally the only decks there that wouldn't go wide on us with creatures. If we can't figure that out, I don't know how this deck manages this meta, assuming 5C Humans UG Merfolk continues to put up top results (and Merfolk has done so with decidedly sub-par lists and less than stellar play, since Jeremy Bertarioni made a gross misplay in the semis and otherwise likely would have won and been in the finals against his teammate Collins Mullen, who won it all.)
We might become an Engineered Explosives deck. We need to get to 2 colors consistently. That still might be best done, oddly enough, with WW, running 4 Battlefield Forge, 3 Horizon Canopy, 3-4 Caves of Koilos, 3 Gemstone Caverns.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Thalia and Thorn are definitely hilarious. I get good reactions from opponents when I stick Thorn turn one with SSG or Gemstone Caverns and then Thalia turn two
Pia and Kiran Nalaar is great for solving stalled board states and top deck wars. Often against BGx and E-Tron where they can be as big as us. It also combos really well with Eldrazi Displacer. I find that I get close to winning those MU's but don't quite make it before they're able to stick a Goyf, the fliers are often enough to finish the game off. I suspect it could be good against Merfolk as well but I haven't had the chance to play it against that deck.
I'm going 3-deep on EE. Red is essentially now only for Nahiri, Needle Spires, and the one-off SSG played as a creature. I really enjoy having a man land against a variety of decks because it complicates their math considerably. I was considering Pia and Kirran Nalaar, as it is a card I do enjoy, but every time I want to play double mana symbol cards, I get punished. Settle, however, feels worth it as a 1-of.
My plan against Humans and Merfolk is a combination of EE, Settle, and Worship.
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Reality Smasher
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Matter Reshaper
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
Lands (25)
4 Plains
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Needle Spires
3 Gemstone Caverns
2 Sacred Foundry
1 Inspiring Vantage
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Dismember
3 Stony Silence
3 Path to Exile
2 Rest in Peace
2 Eidolon of Rhetoric
2 Worship
1 Nahiri, the Harbinger
1 Settle the Wreckage
1 Engineered Explosives
EDIT:
Played last night, beat Jeskai Control 2-1 and Storm 2-0, lost to Infect (they had the nut draws both games and I still only lost by one turn) and then played 6 games against 5C Humans and went 5-1. Post-board, they basically cannot beat Worship. Settle the Wreckage was a huge blowout against them. Path is essentially a better Swords to Plowshares because they have 1 basic Plains. They are also super soft to Leonin Arbiter into GQ if they don't have Vial out. I feel much better about this match.
Engineered Explosives was literally always what I wanted to see outside of Control and even there it is fine on 2 (Azcanta, Snapcaster, Spreading Seas) game 1.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Round 1 vs. Ad Nauseum 2-1
It's Ad Nauseum. More or less a free win if you hit disruption. I did in 2 games and didn't in 1.
Round 2 vs. Storm 2-0
Again, find disruption. Turns out they can't win if they can't get Eidolon off the board. Chalice on 2 is amazing, but expect them to blow up Chalice ASAP. You cannot rely on not alone. You want the fourfold hate: Thalia, Eidolon, Chalice on 2, RiP.
Round 3 vs. TitanShift 1-2
I hate losing this match because it is so good for us, but variance is a thing. Leonin Arbiter is your hero, and THC and THKS are really important too. Even TGoT is good to slow them down a bit. Chalice on 0. Engineered Explosives is terrible, and so is Dismember, so you have 3 easy cards to side out. I brought in Eidolon and Worship, which isn't great but if you somehow get a bunch of creatures out, they have to use triggers to kill creatures and you, so not the worst, but not great. I had a mulligan to 5 that was terrible in game 3, and my opponent had pretty much everything (turn out she hit 8 lands with Pact and Scapeshift in hand...) It happens.
Round 4 vs. Eldrazi tron 2-1
The main thing with them is to keep them off Tron. Sure, they can still do stuff, since a bunch of their cards are the same as our cards, but Eldrazi Displacer with Thought-Knot Seer can pretty much ruin them by poaching their hand. Stony Silence was great because it stops some key parts of their deck. Hope to avoid natural Tron into Karn, as that is really the only thing they do that I find hard to overcome.
Round 5 vs. Affinity 2-1
Who is on the play is kind of huge. I was on the play games 1 and 3 and I was able to use that. Game 3, I had Chalice on 0 and 2, Worship, and Stony Silence in play, plus a Thalia, Heretic Cathar. They don't really come back from that. Note to self: when they have 3 Darksteel Citadel in play and finally land an Inkmoth Nexus, do not GQ the Nexus. It gives them a mountain for Galvanic Blast. Probably my worst mistake of the day.
Round 6 vs. Ponza 0-2
No idea how we beat this deck without the perfect sequence of draws. Chalice is mediocre, but you don't want them dropping mana dorks and Bolting your guys. All their really relevant spells cost 3-4 and are Blood Moon + land destruction, and their Inferno Titans are nearly impossible to deal with. It's just not a deck we can beat without turn 2 TKS, turn 3 Smasher, maybe Turn 4 Smasher. I brought in Nahiri and did remove a Blood Moon, but I was still Titan'd into oblivion.
I don't actually feel like I made too many play mistakes. The Affinity goof was one. I think I should have mulliganed from 6 to 5 in Game 2 of the TitanShift match because my six was pretty slow and non-disruptive. I think that was the only one that possibly cost me a match.
The deck felt good. I obviously missed my usual 1-of Aven Mindcensor, but what can you do?
Needle Spires won me a game where I was flooding hard, though I had a couple matches where the land coming in tapped was awkward, but not ultimately too disruptive.
I was able to use EE against Storm, and in general the wealth of spot removal really made it hard on them.
Don't know what I would change. I am not going to adjust to fight Ponza. I could see, as always, going to 1 Aven Mindcensor, but that is it. Deck was tight.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Im trying two smuggler copter in the spot of matter reshaper and the loot effect has been helpful.
I don't mind Smuggler's Copter, but I constantly find that Thalia, Heretic Cathar is the card I want to replace. Every time I take out Matter Reshaper, I find myself in those matches where a colorless 3/2 cast with only two lands on the board that potentially replaces itself is just so much value that I take a quick trip to Regretsville. THC, on the other hand, is amazing on turns 1-3, but singularly lackluster the longer the game goes. By turn 5, I think THC is actively worse than Reshaper since she is often a blocker with little to no value. That isn't to say that I haven't beaten control trying to play their 5th land as a fetch and suddenly it comes in tapped and I win. Those happen and they are glorious, but they don't happen often enough.
I do wonder if we play enough cheap threats to get full Copter value. Copter shines in decks with lots of cmc 1-2 cards and some 3s that are not good attackers, but we play 0 1 drops and 7 2 drops, so it ultimately comes down to: flying and loot. Don't get me wrong, it seems great when your other creature is TGoT or Arbiter, facing some x/3+ ground pounders.
Well, something to think about.
has anyone else on the thread used them recently?
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
I wouldn't cut big thalia though. I might even try to up the number of her to 3 with copter as she's just that good. Granted, the meta seems to be moving back towards bolt, so perhaps she's worse than she was.
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance
Highlights:
Round 1, game 2, mull to 4 against Ad Nauseaum, still win. Stony Silence on turn 2 like a boss.
Round 2, game 1, Infect opponent mis-counts and deals 9 infect to me, Eldrazi Displacer + THC hold the line, win the game.
Round 3, game 3, vs. Grixis Death's Shadow, turn 1 Leonin Arbiter on the play. He plays a fetchland and proceeds to lose to the king of hatebears.
Copter was interesting, but I don't know if I actually like it. I didn't like tapping out two creatures to attack with one, it feels limiting on defense, though it is okay when we are the beatdown. It would probably feel better against Control than it did in those matches, where I was the control deck and they were the beatdown.
Dropped the Wr build, I think I just prefer the extra Worship, Elspeth, and Settle the Wreckage. Also, it actually gives me more flexibility on colored mana for EE.
Also testing 24 lands. Might be too greedy, but not nearly as bad with WW.
Current list:
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Reality Smasher
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
Lands 24
4 Plains
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Gemstone Caverns
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Caves of Koilos
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Dismember
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Smuggler's Copter
3 Stony Silence
3 Path to Exile
2 Rest in Peace
2 Eidolon of Rhetoric
2 Worship
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Settle the Wreckage
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Since Lantern Control is really, really a deck now, I am swapping a singleton Path to Exile for Kataki, War's Wage. It is fine against Affinity, which is already a decent match, but given that my build is fairly dependent on Engineered Explosives, which has to come out post-sideboard against Lantern, it gives an out. I don't want to reduce my Stony Silence count because of various Tron decks where it is pretty huge, as well as various combo decks that pop up from time to time. It does also make me feel better about adding the two Aven Mindcensor since they jazz up Whir of Invention.
My locals last week included Ad Naus, Mono-Green Tron, Eldrazi Tron and Lantern, and with all of those except Ad Naus going up in competitive play at bigger events that is my justification.
That might mean taking out Smuggler's Copter, though I was hoping to test it against Jeskai Control where it feels like it ought to be very good.
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Reality Smasher
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Matter Reshaper
1 Aven Mindcensor
Lands 25
4 Plains
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Gemstone Caverns
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Caves of Koilos
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Dismember
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Stony Silence
1 Path to Exile
2 Rest in Peace
2 Eidolon of Rhetoric
2 Worship
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Settle the Wreckage
1 Kataki, War's Wage
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
When do you side out some SSG and/or Reality Smasher?
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Reality Smasher
3 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4 Simian Spirit Guide
Lands (25)
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ghost Quarter
5 Plains
3 Gemstone Caverns
4 Battlefield Forge
1 Caves of Koilos
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Horizon Canopy
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Dismember
3 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Path to Exile
1 Worship
2 Cast out
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Runed Halo
1 Aven Mindcensor
2 Settle the Wreckage
Sideboard plan:
NOTE: -x/-y means swapping out one less on the play games 2/3 for 1 Gemstone Caverns.
TIER 1
Vs. Urza Tron:
+1 Aven Mindcensor
+3 Stony Silence
-3 TgoT
-1/-0 Chalice
Vs. 5C Humans
-3 TgoT
-2/-1 (play) Matter Reshaper
+1 Worship
+2 Settle the Wreckage
+2 PtE
Vs. UR Storm
-4/-3 Eldrazi Displacer
-1 Matter Reshaper
+2 PtE
+1 Runed Halo (Grapeshot, Wipeaway)
+2 Rest in Peace
Vs. Grixis Death's Shadow
-3 TGoT
-2/-1 Matter Reshaper
+1 Aven Mindcensor
+1 Worship
+2 RiP
+1 Runed Halo (Death’s Shadow)
Vs. Scapeshift/Amulet
-3 Dismember
+1 Aven Mindcensor
+1 Worship
+1 Runed Halo (Valakut, Primeval titan)
Vs. Affinity
-4/-3 Leonin Arbiter
-3 TGoT
+3 Stony Silence
+2 PtE
+2 Settle the Wreckage
Vs. Jeskai Control
-3 Dismember
+1 Aven Mindcensor
+2 Rest in Peace
Vs. Jeskai Midrange
-3/-2 Matter Reshaper
-3 Dismember
+2 Rest in Peace
+2 PtE
+2 Settle
Vs. Burn
-2 Dismember
+1 Runed Halo
+1 Worship
Vs. Eldrazi Tron
-3 TGoT
-4 Chalice
+3 Stony Silence
+2 PtE
+2 Settle the Wreckage
TIER 2/3
Vs. Lantern Control
-3 Matter Reshaper
-2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
-2 Eldrazi Displacer
+3 Stony Silence
+2 Cast Out
+1 Runed Halo (
Vs. Ad Nauseum
-3 Matter Reshaper
-1 Eldrazi Displacer
+3 Stony Silence
+1 Runed Halo (Ad Nauseum)
Vs. Bant Eldrazi
-3 TGoT
-4 Chalice
+2 PtE
+2 Cast Out
+2 Settle
+1 Worship
Vs. Living End
-1 Eldrazi Displacer
-1 Matter Reshaper
+2 Rest in Peace
Vs. Merfolk, BW DnT
-4 Chalice of the Void
-3 Leonin Arbiter
+2 PtE
+2 Cast Out
+1 Worship
+2 Settle
Vs. Bant CoCo Chord/Knightfall
-4 Chalice of the Void
-3 TgoT
-1 SSG
+2 PtE
+1 Aven Mindcensor
+2 Rest in Peace
+1 Runed Halo (Walking Ballista)
+1 Worship
+1 Grafdigger’s Cage
Vs. Abzan Evo
-4 Chalice
-3 TGoT
-1/-0 Matter Reshaper
+2 PtE
+1 Aven Mindcensor
+1 Grafdigger’s Cage
+2 Settle
+2 Rest in Peace
Vs. Elves, Hollow One
-3 TgoT
-3 Matter Reshaper
+2 PtE
+1 Aven Mindcensor
+2 Settle
+1 Grafdigger’s Cage
Vs. Dredge
-3 TGoT
-4 chalice
-1/-0 Eldrazi displacer
+2 RiP
+2 PtE
+1 Worship
+2 Settle
+1 Grafdigger’s Cage
Vs. Grixis Control
-3 Eldrazi Displacer
+1 Grafdigger’s Cage
+2 Rest in Peace
Vs. Jund/Junk Midrange
-4 Chalice
-1/-0
+2 Rest in Peace
+2 PtE
+1 Runed Halo (Liliana)
Vs. Mardu
-2/-1 SSG
-2 TGoT
+2 Rest in Peace
+2 Settle
Vs. Infect
-3 Matter Reshaper
-2 Leonin Arbiter
+2 PtE
+1 Aven Mindcensor
+2 Settle
+1 Runed Halo (Blighted Agent)
Vs. GR Ponza
-2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
+1 Aven Mindcensor
+1 Runed Halo (Inferno Titan)
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
I am actually moving towards a mid-range build because I think the format is difficult for the Staxes build and I want to test Ravenous Chupacabra. I could be wrong, of course.
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Godless Shrine
2 Mutavault
2 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Fetid Heath
Creatures 19
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Reality Smasher
3 Ravenous Chupacabra
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
2 Fatal Push
4 Path to Exile
2 Surgical Extraction
Sorcery 10
4 Lingering Souls
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
1 Collective Brutality
3 Stony Silence
2 Anguished Unmaking
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Shadow of Doubt
2 Flaying Tendrils
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Collective Brutality
EXPIRED
It is possible that Arbiter/Mindcensor/GQ package is just bad and I ought to be using 4 Kitesail Freebooter, another Lingering Souls, 1 Collective Brutality and 4 Mutavault, closer to the list that won GP Kobe in Japan last year.
Otherwise, I would just run the list I posted in 326.
REVISIONS:
Updated the BW list.
Main deck: -1 Chupacabra, -1 Thoughtseize, +2 Kalitas.
Sideboard: -2 Kalitas, -1 Cast Out, -2 Zealous Persecution, +2 Linvala, Keeper of Silence, +2 Flaying Tendrils
1/31/2018
Completely revised the list. GQ/Arbiter is wrong for this build. I have to accept that it is mid-range.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
I felt sideboarding into nonbos was awkward. While there are matchups where you want path and not chalice, they're not always a 1 for 1 exchange. A good example of that is vs death's shadow where you want both cards.
declaration in stone is just a nice decent broad answer for tokens as well as other decks. Occasionally, I've brought it in with stony so they don't get the upside (it has to be a MU where the OP plays some amount of artifacts of course).
To be honest, there aren't a lot of matchups where I felt a really missed path. I'm bringing in other hate for storm which really loves something like counters company as a bad MU. I already am jamming cage, but let's face it, it's probably just a poor MU.
I like worship in this meta. Humans is difficult otherwise. The walkers are anti control/midrange cards. Otherwise, I think my SB hate is pretty reasonable/standard.
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Godless Shrine
2 Mutavault
2 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Fetid Heath
Creatures 17
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Reality Smasher
3 Ravenous Chupacabra
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Fatal Push
4 Path to Exile
1 Dismember
Sorcery 11
4 Lingering Souls
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
3 Stony Silence
3 Fulminator Mage
2 Anguished Unmaking
2 Flaying Tendrils
2 Rest in peace
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Worship
@SpiderSpace
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Eidolon of Rhetoric
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Gemstone Caverns
1 Wastes
8 Plains
4 Battlefield Forge
Spells 8
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Dismember
1 Cast Out
3 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Stony Silence
2 Worship
2 Settle the Wreckage
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Damping Matrix
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Are people moving away from trying to make gemstone caverns + serum powder + eldrazi work?
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
The originator of the deck back in December of 2016, Stabil0, used Gemstone Caverns but went with Simian Spirit Guide (maybe in place of Serum Powder??) to achieve velocity. The deck is essentially a prison aggro deck, where the goal is to land a lock in the first two turns and then begin casting threats, but it is also quite possible to get out threats very quickly which are also disruptive, in the form of THC and TKS on turn 2 (sometimes turn 1) and then deploy disruptive elements.
He and a few others of us have had some very good success online and locally (I play in Baltimore, which has a very competitive local scene), and I have missed day 2 at two opens by 1 match with the deck, and I assume that is because I'm just a middling player and I made mistakes that cost me incremental advantage. This deck lives and dies by small decisions that are not always obvious, much like Death and Taxes in Legacy. Much like that deck, this deck has a very high learning curve and punishes and rewards in equally extreme measure bad and good decisions.
Stabil0 has mentioned to SpiderSpace and I that he is taking a break from Magic and may or may not be back, but SpiderSpace and I both think that the deck has legs and remains a powerful and really under-played deck.
- It tends to prey on the decks like Death's Shadow, Burn (I don't know about anyone else, but I have yet to drop a single match against Burn), non-creature combo, Amulet Titan, Infect, and Tron;
- has a 50/50-ish match against Uxx Control (slightly worse now, actually), BGx Midrange (disappearing from the meta), Scapeshift (it all comes down to Arbiter + GQ), Affinity, and
- has serious problems with creature combo (GW Coco-Chord, Elves), Go-Wide Creatures (Merfolk, Spirits, Humans), Blood Moon.dec (Blue Moon, Ponza, and Rx Prison), and other Eldrazi mid-range decks (Bant, BW, E-Tron) all of which are much less prominent in the meta now. These are the decks that don't care about Thalia, Chalice, and Arbiter, typically, and then which match us or do much better than us with removal and creatures and tech.
That's why we have spent more time on sideboard discussions on this list than almost everything else. A very large part of the changes to the main deck were about ways to bolster the sideboard options. There is little question that WW is the best maindeck, but it is also less resilient against our weak spots (or maybe was).
You can see what is obvious to keep:
3 Stony Silence for Tron, Affinity, and Lantern. Complete no brainer.
You absolutely neeed graveyard hate, HOWEVER... 6 months ago I would have said that 2 Rest in Peace was an absolute given before, but now I am testing 3 Grafdigger's Cage not as a supplement, but as completely replacing it. We already trample on Death's Shadow; Dredge and Reanimate decks can't beat RiP or Cage; both hinder Storm and Control, but supplement our strategies; and Goyf is almost non-existent in Modern. On the other hand, Cage is much better against Company-Chord decks. RiP has two major benefits as I see it: 1) it actually does get rid of the graveyard, so if you lose it it isn't like there are cards left to play and 2) enchantments are much more resilient in Modern than Artifacts.
After that, IMO it is a toss up.
Worship is the most common other addition, in no small part because if you resolve it the go-wide decks typically can't win if they don't run creatures that destroy your creatures or enchantment hate (back to the resiliency of enchantments in Modern). I think SpiderSpace is right that this is a 2-of. Against a lot of decks, it just means they can't beat us.
The correct sideboard removal package is a hot topic, as you can see from the last couple posts alone. Path to Exile is unmatched in efficiency, but it is a nonbo with Chalice most of the time, so what do you do? There is a variety of less-good 2 mana removal that still has upsides. Given what we lose to, I am not even convinced that targeted removal is the right thing to do instead of Settle the Wreckage or Wrath to Exile, as the joke goes. That said, PtE and other targeted removal are offensive spells that allow us to pursue our gameplan, rather than StW, which is defensive and reactive. Fiddling with the mana a small amount (replace some Plains with Caves of Koilos) also allows you to efficiently rely on Engineered Explosives on 0, 1 and 2 and even get to 3 once in a while, but it can also be a nonbo with RiP and Cage and our own creatures. I pushed the RW build in order to see if we could make Anger of the Gods work, we were that desperate to find an out to Chord and Creature builds. Typically, people run 3-4 additional removal spells in the side, with Cast Out being particularly flexible as a 1-of.
Planeswalkers have been and on and off decision for dealing with Control. Let's face it, resolve Elspeth (either one, quite often) against Control and the entire game shifts. Resolve her against Mid-range decks and they can't get through an army of 1/1 soldiers.
Various means of shoring up certain combo and control matches come up as well, the core two card choices being Aven Mindcensor and Eidolon of Rhetoric. I have also been known to be a proponent of Linvala, Keeper of Silence. That ought to single-handedly win you the creature combo matches (Elves, GW, Kiki-Jiki), and she is value against Mid-range Eldrazi.
After that, well, that's mostly it.
Things I plan to test:
Damping Matrix: Shuts off Affinity, Tron, and Lantern Control, but also means that Counters Company/Bant Toolbox cannot activate the following cards: Duskwatch Recruiter, Devoted Druid (no -1/-1 untap, so it is a 2 mana Llanowar Elves), Walking Ballista, Scavenging Ooze, Qasali Pridemage, Knight of the Reliquary. It shuts off our own Eldrazi Displacer, but that is a bad card in the match anyway. As a nice side effect, it also turns off Ezuri and Heritage Druid in Elves.
Vryn Wingmare: 2nd or third Thalia is good, right? I just wonder if this is too slow and win-more in the matches where it ought to be good.
Cards I have tested that were 'Meh'
Torpor Orb/Hushwing Gryff/Tocatli Honor Guard: Sure it only hits four of our cards, but it just isn't doing enough to make up for turning off TKS.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Ah that makes sense. I actually started with a very similar list but I have since given up on the chalice + spirit guide.
Is this still a correct place to discuss it? Below is a deck list for reference. So far I've played two friendly leagues on MTGO and went 3-2 both times (loosing vs suicide grixis x2 and the D&T mirror).
4 Eternal Scourge
4 Eldrazi Skyspawner
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Restoration Angel
2 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Wall of Omens
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Shefet Dunes
4 Plains
4 Adarkar Wastes
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Gemstone Caverns
Other Spells x8
4 Path to Exile
4 Serum Powder
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Disenchant
2 Warping Wail
2 Stony Silence
2 Oblivion Ring
4 Rest in Peace
2 Leyline of Sanctity
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA