If I had a fetchland to play as the third land I would save the second Herbalists for turn 3. Otherwise I would play both Herbalists on turn 2 while revolt is guaranteed. Treat this as a guideline instead of a hard & fast rule.
If you play the second Herbalists on turn 2, you get one extra attack (2 damage) out of it compared to playing it on turn 3, all else being equal. However if you save the Herbalists for turn 3, you have the Herbalists > Commune > Neonate/Mandrills > Vengevine line that wouldn't be available otherwise. So the question is whether you want the confirmed 2-damage attack, or the chance at a 4-damage attack instead (on turn 3, and every turn thereafter). To me the payoff for taking the gamble is high enough that I'd want to do it.
Yeah, that was my line of thinking as well. With a Herbalists in hand, only do it if I have a fetch in hand (or somehow know that it is on top) and with a BTE in hand, just save it for Turn 3 for the higher potential pay-off.
is heroic intervention a good sideboard against boardwipes like anger and firespout? or there's no need to allot sideboard for boardwipe effects?
It might be a good card against Skred Red, with their myriad of boardwipes. Anger of the Gods can really be a blowout. I will test one or two in the sideboard.
Question: what would be your turn-1 play if you have both faithless looting and insolent neonate in your opening hand but without vengevine and hidden herbalist in it.
In the dark, Neonate. Looting leaves you down a card, while Neonate is card-neutral until you sac it, and lets you get in for some damage (it has menace!).
I'd T1 Loot if I needed to fix some imbalance in my hand, such as:
- 1 land, or 4 lands
- creature-light, instant/sorcery-heavy. In this case I'd want to save Neonate for potential Vengevines, and discarding an I/S gives me spell mastery, so I'd be compelled to Loot. If I have 2 Lootings I'll happily play the first and discard the second to it, I'm not going to cast both and -2 myself.
- no turn 2 play
thanks izzetmage for your detailed explanation of your choice.
i also choose neonate as a T1 play given that hand, my reasoning is to have a ready revolt enabler incase i got to draw hidden herbalist, normally i only do T1 looting if i have vengevine in hand or mana fixing for 1-land opening hand
Personally I wouldn't do it. Yes, it can trigger Vengevine, but it does nothing else besides that and can be considered a tapland, which makes it so slow.
Dryad Arbor doesn't count as a spell for Vengevine. (Or Bushwhacker, for that matter.)
There are some neat things you can do with it, e.g. use Commune/Gather to put a land in your hand, or Wooded Foothills to fetch a creature, but I still feel the power level of Dryad Arbor is too low. Decks like Infect or Bogles need it as Liliana protection, but this deck can beat a 3-mana edict without resorting to Dryad Arbor.
i was testing in a local playgroup yesterday.
I've ran into Death's Shadow Jund, Abzan Midrange and a couple other decks.
This deck has been pretty consistent so far.
Wherever i was heading for it took it's job and wasn't far away from winning the Games that were close to even.
i was testing in a local playgroup yesterday.
I've ran into Death's Shadow Jund, Abzan Midrange and a couple other decks.
This deck has been pretty consistent so far.
Wherever i was heading for it took it's job and wasn't far away from winning the Games that were close to even.
Can you give us a runthrough of the matches? I'm curious how we line up against Death's Shadow, is it just who is the fastest?
He was able to establish a double Shadow Board Presence at 7 Life.
Therefore i couldn't attack through because he was able to kill me on the backswing.
As far as i see it it's a bad MU because they got Kolaghan's Command, Removal and big Roadblocks.
thanks guys for the card suggestion, i've asked that because of death shadow jund, their creatures are normally bigger than ours, is magmatic chasm a viable sideboard card?
I have only played two matches against DSJ and do not think the matchup is unfavorable. You have to play the same way Burn needs to learn to play against them: do not hurt them unless you can kill them. We don't care that their creatures are bigger; we just want to go wide and attack for the win. Throw some blockers out, and set up for a Vengevine turn. They may get Temur Battle Rage, but you can't really do anything about that. If I'm wrong, and the matchup IS bad, then that's all the more reason to splash black for Fatal Push.
I think there has been a discussion around Generator Servant a few pages back and the conclusion was that it's not worth it, since it can also pay for Myr Superion. Herbalists/BTE can pay for a lot more, so their usefulness stays relevant. And they don't need to be sacced of course.
As for sideboarding, it all depends on the matchup. There are certain cards that you will never want to remove and some that are 'extra'. Usually I sideboard out Commune with the Gods, but for grindy matchups it might be better to remove the Neonates. Or if you put in Blood Moon, then Commune is a good card to find that Blood Moon. But my rule of thumb is: If your gameplan isn't totally destroyed G1, there is mostly no reason to sideboard aggressively.
Hi Izzetmage - Great Primer thx for writing it. This deck looks incredibly fun and has been playing well in our local group. Will try at LGS (Dice Dojo Chicago) today and see how it goes. Question, has anyone tried Goyfs in the deck? Seems like a decent sideboard card at least for defense against other Deathshadow / Goyf strategies.
I haven't played Goyf in the SB and don't intend to. Scavenging Ooze is better because it's relevant in more matchups. It can eat Lingering Souls and uncommon card types (artifact/enchantment/planeswalker) to shrink opposing Goyfs.
BTW first time out Went 3-1 yesterday at LGS. Swept Tron, bant eldrazi and an odd mono green eldrazi goblin charbelcher brew. Lost close match to scapeshift where had opponent down to 2 life in both losses b4 he "scapeshifted". Very good deck and often can win T3. I didn't seem to sideboard much at all.
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If you play the second Herbalists on turn 2, you get one extra attack (2 damage) out of it compared to playing it on turn 3, all else being equal. However if you save the Herbalists for turn 3, you have the Herbalists > Commune > Neonate/Mandrills > Vengevine line that wouldn't be available otherwise. So the question is whether you want the confirmed 2-damage attack, or the chance at a 4-damage attack instead (on turn 3, and every turn thereafter). To me the payoff for taking the gamble is high enough that I'd want to do it.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
It might be a good card against Skred Red, with their myriad of boardwipes. Anger of the Gods can really be a blowout. I will test one or two in the sideboard.
I'd T1 Loot if I needed to fix some imbalance in my hand, such as:
- 1 land, or 4 lands
- creature-light, instant/sorcery-heavy. In this case I'd want to save Neonate for potential Vengevines, and discarding an I/S gives me spell mastery, so I'd be compelled to Loot. If I have 2 Lootings I'll happily play the first and discard the second to it, I'm not going to cast both and -2 myself.
- no turn 2 play
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
i also choose neonate as a T1 play given that hand, my reasoning is to have a ready revolt enabler incase i got to draw hidden herbalist, normally i only do T1 looting if i have vengevine in hand or mana fixing for 1-land opening hand
Personally I wouldn't do it. Yes, it can trigger Vengevine, but it does nothing else besides that and can be considered a tapland, which makes it so slow.
There are some neat things you can do with it, e.g. use Commune/Gather to put a land in your hand, or Wooded Foothills to fetch a creature, but I still feel the power level of Dryad Arbor is too low. Decks like Infect or Bogles need it as Liliana protection, but this deck can beat a 3-mana edict without resorting to Dryad Arbor.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
i was testing in a local playgroup yesterday.
I've ran into Death's Shadow Jund, Abzan Midrange and a couple other decks.
This deck has been pretty consistent so far.
Wherever i was heading for it took it's job and wasn't far away from winning the Games that were close to even.
Green @ it's best
Can you give us a runthrough of the matches? I'm curious how we line up against Death's Shadow, is it just who is the fastest?
Therefore i couldn't attack through because he was able to kill me on the backswing.
As far as i see it it's a bad MU because they got Kolaghan's Command, Removal and big Roadblocks.
Green @ it's best
They rely on a huge graveyard, they need to shock themselves into oblivion giving us a chance to finish them off with Lightning Bolt.
Green @ it's best
Green @ it's best
As for sideboarding, it all depends on the matchup. There are certain cards that you will never want to remove and some that are 'extra'. Usually I sideboard out Commune with the Gods, but for grindy matchups it might be better to remove the Neonates. Or if you put in Blood Moon, then Commune is a good card to find that Blood Moon. But my rule of thumb is: If your gameplan isn't totally destroyed G1, there is mostly no reason to sideboard aggressively.
Thx again
I haven't played Goyf in the SB and don't intend to. Scavenging Ooze is better because it's relevant in more matchups. It can eat Lingering Souls and uncommon card types (artifact/enchantment/planeswalker) to shrink opposing Goyfs.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
BTW first time out Went 3-1 yesterday at LGS. Swept Tron, bant eldrazi and an odd mono green eldrazi goblin charbelcher brew. Lost close match to scapeshift where had opponent down to 2 life in both losses b4 he "scapeshifted". Very good deck and often can win T3. I didn't seem to sideboard much at all.