As a jund dredgevine player in the past, I can tell you the deck feels very similar in goldfishing. I would agree it certainly seems more consistent though. Smoother manabase is huge, and the synergy is well-rounded. Whenever I try to tweak numbers or add variance (Satyr Wayfinder) the list just doesn't feel right. Izzetmage's list is solid
Decks that are faster and hard to interact with? I would imagine Affinity and infect aren't too difficult but I bet bogles would be difficult
Storm and Ad Naseum would be about 50/50 I guess. Jund and Grix control are the only tier decks with enough answers to constantly deal with this amount of threats, but I think they are also both too slow.
This deck, like any combo deck, would likely have a difficult time recovering from back to back discard spells such IOK.
Colorless mana seems not particulary useful here, Lotus Cobra would be better with enough fetches to support it, which you want anyway to trigger "Revolt" for Hidden Herbalists and fill the GY for Hooting Mandrills.
Generator Servant is basically only good for casting Myr Superion, but it can't even beat Herbalists or BTE at that job. T2 Servant into T3 Superion with haste is no faster than T2 BTE into Superion (in fact you lose 2 points of power because you have to sac Servant). So no.
Cobra could be a replacement for Herbalists but I don't know if it's worth it. The major upside being that it can cast Bushwhacker whereas Herbalists cannot. That being said, it can only cast a Bushwhacker on turn 3 or beyond and never on turn 2.
I find myself often running into a conundrum between Herbalists and Bushwhacker. You need a spare red source to end a chain with that combo. Obviously if you have the BTE this is negated but that hasn't always been the case for me. It's this perplexing anti-synergy that has me pondering if the Herbalists could be replaced. Cobra might be slower but more consistent. Producing double green doesn't help cast a lot of the deck.
Do not cut Herbalists. Every card in this deck was legal before Aether Revolt and it put up virtually 0 results during that time. If this deck has a chance at succeeding, it will be because Herbalists finally gives it that push that it needs. If you cut Herbalists, you're implying that this deck was somehow playable before Aether Revolt and everyone was just too blind to see it. I have too much respect for the hive mind to say that I saw something they didn't for 1-2 years.
Yes, Herbalists is worse than BTE. But we still play it because we need the redundancy. Storm wants Pyretic Ritual despite it being worse than Desperate Ritual. It's basically saying "I can kill you even if my deck was 8 Pyretic Rituals instead of 4 Pyretic + 4 Desperate". This deck is not making quite so strong a statement (8 Herbalists would probably be unplayable, or at least you'd have to replace Bushwhacker), but it can certainly kill you with 4 Herbalists + 4 BTE instead of 8 BTE.
Incidentally, the same goes for Commune and Gather. Don't feel bad because Commune is worse than Gather. Just play it, because you need the redundancy. You'll also appreciate it more when it digs you into Blood Moon.
Here is another tip for not feeling bad about playing Herbalists: it's OK to play Herbalists -> Commune/Gather, or just Commune/Gather on turn 2. There is a chance that you mill into Vengevine, which you can then bring back on turn 3. Also, if there's a Mandrills in the top 5, you're all set to go T3 Herbalists -> Mandrills -> Bushwhacker.
I'd like to mention that Choke is an additional sideboard-Card that deserves to be played.
Especially Control-Decks are not too happy to see this one.
A lot of times i need to discard Lightning Bolt for Faithless Looting, but that added consistency trades up for that "loss".
I was wondering if Ray of Revelation is playable in teh side.
We got a bunch of RW Prison Players in my local Meta and Ghostly Prison and Runed Halo are pretty ugly Cards to fight against.
I went 2-3 in my first Comp League with this. I misplayed against Jeskai Control and BUG Infect. Then I just got rocked by Cheerios because I didn't have interaction in time.
I beat UW Control and an Aetherworks Marvel deck (which I can hardly consider much of a victory).
So the good:
I had the most fun I've had playing in a while. I love it when things go well with the deck.
The bad
Lightning Bolt, Commune with The Gods, the land count
Against Jeskai, he Clique'd me on my draw step, and I didn't look to see that I drew a land. I should have Bolted his Clique because I would have made my third land drop and exploded without him being able to interact. He took bolt, and I played out some creatures, but he was able to remove them and race.
Against Infect, I played out creatures thinking I could leave back a blocker and what could go wrong, instead of Bolting. He Blessing+ 9 pump killed me game 1. Then game 2 I went the other direction and interacted with him instead of playing out 10 power, and that gave him another draw step to kill me. Oops.
Beat Naya Company and Grixis Delver, lost to Esper Dragons.
Sadly i only had the nut draw 2 times and other times i had horrendous openers were i couldn't get my engine running before turn 3 in any way.
The 3rd Hooting Mandrills had been super-bad.
I drew a couple every match and 1 got stucked in my hand all the time
Good to see that you're all enjoying the deck, even if the results are not spectacular.
I would suggest swapping Bolt with Seal of Fire. If decks like Infect and Cheeri0s are giving you trouble because you have to guess between holding up Bolt and developing your board, Seal lets you pay once and have peace of mind. Other pluses:
- revolt
- can be found with Commune
- can end a BTE chain if you have nothing else, and unlike Bolt, it doesn't have to go to the opponent's face if he has no creatures yet
The downside is that it's telegraphed, grows Goyf, and is lower than Bolt in terms of raw power. But the synergy could end up making it better than Bolt in this particular deck.
Come to think of it, Seal of Primordium seems like a better idea than Destructive Revelry. Findable with Commune, castable off Herbalists, and faster than Chalice on 2 (even if you use Commune to find it instead of drawing it naturally. However, it ties if your opponent has SSG).
I'm not sure if Conflagrate is playable. You pretty much need Loam for it to work, which I fear takes too many card slots and leads to dead draws. We don't have as many ways to discard Loam or Conflagrate as Dredge. Flame Jab is in a similar spot, and can't kill Paladin in one cast.
Have you considered Congregation at Dawn and/or Satyr Wayfinder? You can use the Congregation at the end of the opponent's turn to stack the top of your deck with two Vengevines and a Wayfinder, with the Wayfinder on top, then go to your turn, draw the Wayfinder, play it, use it to put two Vengevines in the graveyard, possibly get another land, then play another creature and go to work with the vines. Just an idea.
I've played Wayfinder and it's not good. Wayfinder mills into Vengevine, but you have to end a chain with him, so it gets awkward. If you have BTE + Commune and 3 lands you can go BTE, Commune milling Vengevine and putting Neonate/Mandrills into your hand, then play the 1-drop and get Vengevine back. With Wayfinder you can't.
Congregation at Dawn is slow, doesn't replace itself, and nearly impossible to cast with the current mana base. You're not casting a GGW spell in a deck that has 3 basic Mountains.
Why not take out the bolts or some combination of cards for 4 priest? Or maybe 2 or 3 even... Main reason I ask is if you play priest you can use your HH chain by tapping a mountain for bushwhacker. Use your turn 2 to set up by casting Commune and gather. Then turn 3 you have no reason you can't go off.
Another thought is since you board in bloodmoons in so many matches why not put 2 main? That way they can be there for commune and just randomly win games. Meta call.
Otherwise, great deck. I'm sure this will get there soon enough.
It's a question of whether it's better to play a great card that has no synergy, or a mediocre card that has synergy. Case in point: the Bushwhacker and Landfall Zoo decks. Even though those two have arguably greater need for Seal of Fire (Narnam Renegade and Renegade Rallier), they max Bolt before starting on Seal. I believe Bolt is just too good to not play in a red aggro deck, unless you're Affinity.
If I had Herbalists and Bushwhacker in hand, I'd try to get Mandrills with Gather/Commune. Priest doesn't hit as hard as Mandrills, and leaves R on the table.
I wouldn't play Moon main because I don't bring it in for all matchups (and even then it wouldn't be a good argument). It actually hurts you a bit too, since you can't cast spells that cost GG without a free creature to fix your mana first.
After lurking for a hot minute, I've decided to pick this deck up and put dredgevine down. It's amazing how resilient this deck is to hate.
After playing for a bit, I've decided to drop all 4 bolts for lightning axe. Reason being is that I really don't care for x/3 creatures with Bushwhacker's/scourge Devil's ETB triggers, but gurmag/goyf/Titi were annoying roadblocks before the swap. I have really needed to finish someone off with a bolt once in the 35 rounds I have played.
4 axes sometimes feels like too many, but I haven't really found anything to fill that slot. And i can always discard one to the other. This maybe the only flex in the deck. Maybe a one of noxious revival may be worth it.
Second swap I've done was the 3rd mandrills for scourge Devil. This thing is a BEAST. It adds so much more consistency and is a great discard to t1 axe/looting/neonate.
Third is -1 commune for a 19th land: this is just a sweet spot I've found since once in a blood moon (that's right) I do hardcast my boy VV.
I'd like to see your input since I'll be taking it to a 40+ fnm tomorrow and will return with results.
Bolts can kill creatures which don't participate in combat, such as mana dorks, Baral and Sram. Maybe this is just me overreacting to Storm's revival, but one of the reasons I haven't switched to Seal of Fire is that it doesn't kill Baral.
Trading a 2/2 + Bolt for a 5-toughness guy costs the same as Axing it. All said I still feel that you should play Bolts main.
Scourge Devil sounds like a good idea. Helps those T2 no Vengevine, just Herbalists-BTE-Bushwhacker hands get there, and lets you trade Mandrills/Vengevine for x/5s.
What land are you playing as the 19th? Correct me if I'm wrong, based on your post it seems like basic Forest. I'm not sure if it would really help cast Vengevine under Moon, since once you play Moon on turn 3 you can't fetch for it, so you need to have both basic Forests before that.
What does your SB look like, if you've moved Axes to the maindeck? In particular, what grave hate and how many copies are you playing? Dredge may be down, but it's still playable, and Storm is up. I'd also like to know how you SB against the fair decks. My plan is to bring in Moons to lock them out and Finks to overcome 1-for-1 removal, but playing a Moon locks you out of Finks unless you have Herbalists/BTE.
I'll try bolts again. Just having that discard has been optimal. Especially when 3 lands is the sweet spot for that deck so you can hold the extra lands for a solid removal. Or even just discard a vv t1 to combo t2.
Forest is the 19th land.
My sb is in the works. I've only recently started playing at a new shop and the meta consists of alot of burn, artifact, tron and gy midrange decks (jund, grixis).
So far I have:
3 ancient grudge [lantern (axe)& affinity(commune)
3 blood moon (greedy mana base midrange/control)
3 scooze: gy decks (superion)
3 gnaw to the bone: hyper aggro (commune)
3 xxx
It's a question of whether it's better to play a great card that has no synergy, or a mediocre card that has synergy. Case in point: the Bushwhacker and Landfall Zoo decks. Even though those two have arguably greater need for Seal of Fire (Narnam Renegade and Renegade Rallier), they max Bolt before starting on Seal. I believe Bolt is just too good to not play in a red aggro deck, unless you're Affinity.
If I had Herbalists and Bushwhacker in hand, I'd try to get Mandrills with Gather/Commune. Priest doesn't hit as hard as Mandrills, and leaves R on the table.
I wouldn't play Moon main because I don't bring it in for all matchups (and even then it wouldn't be a good argument). It actually hurts you a bit too, since you can't cast spells that cost GG without a free creature to fix your mana first.
Your response isn't really answering the questions I presented. Comparing bolt to seal in a zoo deck is in no way a comparison to priest in a "combo" deck that sometimes suffers from mana issues.
The link you provided has absolutely nothing to do with the bloodmoons main deck either. That link gave 2 examples as to why not. 1) says the card is an answer to something they are side boarding. Moon is not an answer to their side but an answer to their main. 2) There's simply no room. You yourself have stated there are 5 flex spots. That means your deck has the room to play around with answers or other cards.
Could you please formulate an actual relevant answer to my inquiry? Thank you.
Edit: the only real answer I see is that you say you cannot cast VV without a mana guy after bloodmoons. That I can respect. Adding in a few priest will allow you to main more forests however. Sinece all you will need is 1 red mana to go off effectively.
I'll try bolts again. Just having that discard has been optimal. Especially when 3 lands is the sweet spot for that deck so you can hold the extra lands for a solid removal. Or even just discard a vv t1 to combo t2.
Forest is the 19th land.
My sb is in the works. I've only recently started playing at a new shop and the meta consists of alot of burn, artifact, tron and gy midrange decks (jund, grixis).
So far I have:
3 ancient grudge [lantern (axe)& affinity(commune)
3 blood moon (greedy mana base midrange/control)
3 scooze: gy decks (superion)
3 gnaw to the bone: hyper aggro (commune)
3 xxx
Whoa. All 3s is not the best way to build a SB in Modern. There are a lot of viable decks and it's better to diversify your hate. Instead of playing 3 Grudge you should play 2 Grudge + 1 card that hits both artifacts & enchantments (e.g. Reclamation Sage). The singleton can come in when you need enchantment hate for other matchups.
Same goes for 3 Ooze. Sometimes you need grave hate before turn 3. Sometimes you draw 2 Ooze and think "I don't need to cast both, it would have been so much better if it was Ooze + Surgical Extraction instead".
I tried Gnaw and found it underwhelming. This deck doesn't mill as much as Dredge or Dredgevine, so you can't gain as much life as them. I play Finks instead, which can also come in against those removal-heavy decks.
Your response isn't really answering the questions I presented. Comparing bolt to seal in a zoo deck is in no way a comparison to priest in a "combo" deck that sometimes suffers from mana issues.
The link you provided has absolutely nothing to do with the bloodmoons main deck either. That link gave 2 examples as to why not. 1) says the card is an answer to something they are side boarding. Moon is not an answer to their side but an answer to their main. 2) There's simply no room. You yourself have stated there are 5 flex spots. That means your deck has the room to play around with answers or other cards.
Could you please formulate an actual relevant answer to my inquiry? Thank you.
Bolt is a great card that has no synergy. Seal is a mediocre card that has synergy. Priest is also a mediocre card that has synergy. The synergy aggro decks play Bolt before Seal. Go figure.
Blood Moon doesn't answer every main deck. That's why it's in the SB. Bolt is never dead in game 1 because it can always go to face. That's why it's in the main. Siding out Bolt for Moon is the same principle as siding out Goblin Guide and Steppe Lynx for something bigger.
I'll try bolts again. Just having that discard has been optimal. Especially when 3 lands is the sweet spot for that deck so you can hold the extra lands for a solid removal. Or even just discard a vv t1 to combo t2.
Forest is the 19th land.
My sb is in the works. I've only recently started playing at a new shop and the meta consists of alot of burn, artifact, tron and gy midrange decks (jund, grixis).
So far I have:
3 ancient grudge [lantern (axe)& affinity(commune)
3 blood moon (greedy mana base midrange/control)
3 scooze: gy decks (superion)
3 gnaw to the bone: hyper aggro (commune)
3 xxx
Whoa. All 3s is not the best way to build a SB in Modern. There are a lot of viable decks and it's better to diversify your hate. Instead of playing 3 Grudge you should play 2 Grudge + 1 card that hits both artifacts & enchantments (e.g. Reclamation Sage). The singleton can come in when you need enchantment hate for other matchups.
Same goes for 3 Ooze. Sometimes you need grave hate before turn 3. Sometimes you draw 2 Ooze and think "I don't need to cast both, it would have been so much better if it was Ooze + Surgical Extraction instead".
I tried Gnaw and found it underwhelming. This deck doesn't mill as much as Dredge or Dredgevine, so you can't gain as much life as them. I play Finks instead, which can also come in against those removal-heavy decks.
Your response isn't really answering the questions I presented. Comparing bolt to seal in a zoo deck is in no way a comparison to priest in a "combo" deck that sometimes suffers from mana issues.
The link you provided has absolutely nothing to do with the bloodmoons main deck either. That link gave 2 examples as to why not. 1) says the card is an answer to something they are side boarding. Moon is not an answer to their side but an answer to their main. 2) There's simply no room. You yourself have stated there are 5 flex spots. That means your deck has the room to play around with answers or other cards.
Could you please formulate an actual relevant answer to my inquiry? Thank you.
Bolt is a great card that has no synergy. Seal is a mediocre card that has synergy. Priest is also a mediocre card that has synergy. The synergy aggro decks play Bolt before Seal. Go figure.
Blood Moon doesn't answer every main deck. That's why it's in the SB. Bolt is never dead in game 1 because it can always go to face. That's why it's in the main. Siding out Bolt for Moon is the same principle as siding out Goblin Guide and Steppe Lynx for something bigger.
Not trying to argue here, but again your point on the first matter still holds no ground. Bolt Vs seal is similar cards that have the same purpose basically. That point has no comparison when you are comparing vastly different cards. Seal Vs bolt is completely different than bolt Vs priest. The functions of each are completely different. Bolt removes small obstacles and can go to face. Priest Smooths out your mana issues, is another dude for bringing back VV, and can easily enable bushwhacker.
I will conciede on the second point. blood moon Vs bolt. I'd personally rather run moon as a 1 or 2 of main to free up SB space and have an oops I win card against this meta than a I can 3 your face card.
I will point out that the statement of bolt should be in every red aggro deck except affinity is kinda foolish. In that very sentence you give a variable. If bolt is so good it should be played in every aggro deck then it should be played in affinity also, or some red aggro decks can get by without it, which this one could also be an exception also. Which is it?
Perhaps SB bolt to deal with pesky mana dorks or for matches you need a little more reach? (I've never been an advocate of this, but if it works in this deck...)
I've lost count of the games where I grind them down super low, and then run me out of steam and we go to top deck mode, only to have me killing them with Lightning Bolt. I would always run 4x maindeck. Almost never side them out
woah! nice deck idea, with this i can breakdown my dredgevine and convert it into 2-decks (this one and dredge).
what can you say about grim lavamancer? not sure if this would work alongside spell mastery and delve, but the card is easy to cast, doesn't lose it's value late game and can give us the last push we need to win.
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Storm and Ad Naseum would be about 50/50 I guess. Jund and Grix control are the only tier decks with enough answers to constantly deal with this amount of threats, but I think they are also both too slow.
This deck, like any combo deck, would likely have a difficult time recovering from back to back discard spells such IOK.
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Big Johnny.
I find myself often running into a conundrum between Herbalists and Bushwhacker. You need a spare red source to end a chain with that combo. Obviously if you have the BTE this is negated but that hasn't always been the case for me. It's this perplexing anti-synergy that has me pondering if the Herbalists could be replaced. Cobra might be slower but more consistent. Producing double green doesn't help cast a lot of the deck.
Draft My Cube!
Yes, Herbalists is worse than BTE. But we still play it because we need the redundancy. Storm wants Pyretic Ritual despite it being worse than Desperate Ritual. It's basically saying "I can kill you even if my deck was 8 Pyretic Rituals instead of 4 Pyretic + 4 Desperate". This deck is not making quite so strong a statement (8 Herbalists would probably be unplayable, or at least you'd have to replace Bushwhacker), but it can certainly kill you with 4 Herbalists + 4 BTE instead of 8 BTE.
Incidentally, the same goes for Commune and Gather. Don't feel bad because Commune is worse than Gather. Just play it, because you need the redundancy. You'll also appreciate it more when it digs you into Blood Moon.
Here is another tip for not feeling bad about playing Herbalists: it's OK to play Herbalists -> Commune/Gather, or just Commune/Gather on turn 2. There is a chance that you mill into Vengevine, which you can then bring back on turn 3. Also, if there's a Mandrills in the top 5, you're all set to go T3 Herbalists -> Mandrills -> Bushwhacker.
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Big Johnny.
Especially Control-Decks are not too happy to see this one.
A lot of times i need to discard Lightning Bolt for Faithless Looting, but that added consistency trades up for that "loss".
I was wondering if Ray of Revelation is playable in teh side.
We got a bunch of RW Prison Players in my local Meta and Ghostly Prison and Runed Halo are pretty ugly Cards to fight against.
Green @ it's best
I beat UW Control and an Aetherworks Marvel deck (which I can hardly consider much of a victory).
So the good:
I had the most fun I've had playing in a while. I love it when things go well with the deck.
The bad
Lightning Bolt, Commune with The Gods, the land count
Against Jeskai, he Clique'd me on my draw step, and I didn't look to see that I drew a land. I should have Bolted his Clique because I would have made my third land drop and exploded without him being able to interact. He took bolt, and I played out some creatures, but he was able to remove them and race.
Against Infect, I played out creatures thinking I could leave back a blocker and what could go wrong, instead of Bolting. He Blessing+ 9 pump killed me game 1. Then game 2 I went the other direction and interacted with him instead of playing out 10 power, and that gave him another draw step to kill me. Oops.
Beat Naya Company and Grixis Delver, lost to Esper Dragons.
Sadly i only had the nut draw 2 times and other times i had horrendous openers were i couldn't get my engine running before turn 3 in any way.
The 3rd Hooting Mandrills had been super-bad.
I drew a couple every match and 1 got stucked in my hand all the time
Green @ it's best
I would suggest swapping Bolt with Seal of Fire. If decks like Infect and Cheeri0s are giving you trouble because you have to guess between holding up Bolt and developing your board, Seal lets you pay once and have peace of mind. Other pluses:
- revolt
- can be found with Commune
- can end a BTE chain if you have nothing else, and unlike Bolt, it doesn't have to go to the opponent's face if he has no creatures yet
The downside is that it's telegraphed, grows Goyf, and is lower than Bolt in terms of raw power. But the synergy could end up making it better than Bolt in this particular deck.
Come to think of it, Seal of Primordium seems like a better idea than Destructive Revelry. Findable with Commune, castable off Herbalists, and faster than Chalice on 2 (even if you use Commune to find it instead of drawing it naturally. However, it ties if your opponent has SSG).
I'm not sure if Conflagrate is playable. You pretty much need Loam for it to work, which I fear takes too many card slots and leads to dead draws. We don't have as many ways to discard Loam or Conflagrate as Dredge. Flame Jab is in a similar spot, and can't kill Paladin in one cast.
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Big Johnny.
Conflagrate and life from the loam deserves 2 Ghost Quarter to lock greedy mana-bases out of the game.
I think we must drop Commune with the Gods to reliably make room for this one.
Grisly Salvage seems great too, but the Black splash isn't worth it.
Hellspark Elemental or Scourge Devil looks like promising candidates too.
I've cutted 1 Mandrills for a single Grim lavamancer for now.
Green @ it's best
If you shave off a copy of Mandrills, would Talara's Battalion make sense ?
Grim Lavamancer sounds great to grind out long games as well
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Congregation at Dawn is slow, doesn't replace itself, and nearly impossible to cast with the current mana base. You're not casting a GGW spell in a deck that has 3 basic Mountains.
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Big Johnny.
Another thought is since you board in bloodmoons in so many matches why not put 2 main? That way they can be there for commune and just randomly win games. Meta call.
Otherwise, great deck. I'm sure this will get there soon enough.
If I had Herbalists and Bushwhacker in hand, I'd try to get Mandrills with Gather/Commune. Priest doesn't hit as hard as Mandrills, and leaves R on the table.
I wouldn't play Moon main because I don't bring it in for all matchups (and even then it wouldn't be a good argument). It actually hurts you a bit too, since you can't cast spells that cost GG without a free creature to fix your mana first.
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Big Johnny.
After playing for a bit, I've decided to drop all 4 bolts for lightning axe. Reason being is that I really don't care for x/3 creatures with Bushwhacker's/scourge Devil's ETB triggers, but gurmag/goyf/Titi were annoying roadblocks before the swap. I have really needed to finish someone off with a bolt once in the 35 rounds I have played.
4 axes sometimes feels like too many, but I haven't really found anything to fill that slot. And i can always discard one to the other. This maybe the only flex in the deck. Maybe a one of noxious revival may be worth it.
Second swap I've done was the 3rd mandrills for scourge Devil. This thing is a BEAST. It adds so much more consistency and is a great discard to t1 axe/looting/neonate.
Third is -1 commune for a 19th land: this is just a sweet spot I've found since once in a blood moon (that's right) I do hardcast my boy VV.
I'd like to see your input since I'll be taking it to a 40+ fnm tomorrow and will return with results.
Trading a 2/2 + Bolt for a 5-toughness guy costs the same as Axing it. All said I still feel that you should play Bolts main.
Scourge Devil sounds like a good idea. Helps those T2 no Vengevine, just Herbalists-BTE-Bushwhacker hands get there, and lets you trade Mandrills/Vengevine for x/5s.
What land are you playing as the 19th? Correct me if I'm wrong, based on your post it seems like basic Forest. I'm not sure if it would really help cast Vengevine under Moon, since once you play Moon on turn 3 you can't fetch for it, so you need to have both basic Forests before that.
What does your SB look like, if you've moved Axes to the maindeck? In particular, what grave hate and how many copies are you playing? Dredge may be down, but it's still playable, and Storm is up. I'd also like to know how you SB against the fair decks. My plan is to bring in Moons to lock them out and Finks to overcome 1-for-1 removal, but playing a Moon locks you out of Finks unless you have Herbalists/BTE.
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Big Johnny.
Forest is the 19th land.
My sb is in the works. I've only recently started playing at a new shop and the meta consists of alot of burn, artifact, tron and gy midrange decks (jund, grixis).
So far I have:
3 ancient grudge [lantern (axe)& affinity(commune)
3 blood moon (greedy mana base midrange/control)
3 scooze: gy decks (superion)
3 gnaw to the bone: hyper aggro (commune)
3 xxx
Your response isn't really answering the questions I presented. Comparing bolt to seal in a zoo deck is in no way a comparison to priest in a "combo" deck that sometimes suffers from mana issues.
The link you provided has absolutely nothing to do with the bloodmoons main deck either. That link gave 2 examples as to why not. 1) says the card is an answer to something they are side boarding. Moon is not an answer to their side but an answer to their main. 2) There's simply no room. You yourself have stated there are 5 flex spots. That means your deck has the room to play around with answers or other cards.
Could you please formulate an actual relevant answer to my inquiry? Thank you.
Edit: the only real answer I see is that you say you cannot cast VV without a mana guy after bloodmoons. That I can respect. Adding in a few priest will allow you to main more forests however. Sinece all you will need is 1 red mana to go off effectively.
Same goes for 3 Ooze. Sometimes you need grave hate before turn 3. Sometimes you draw 2 Ooze and think "I don't need to cast both, it would have been so much better if it was Ooze + Surgical Extraction instead".
I tried Gnaw and found it underwhelming. This deck doesn't mill as much as Dredge or Dredgevine, so you can't gain as much life as them. I play Finks instead, which can also come in against those removal-heavy decks.
Bolt is a great card that has no synergy. Seal is a mediocre card that has synergy. Priest is also a mediocre card that has synergy. The synergy aggro decks play Bolt before Seal. Go figure.
Blood Moon doesn't answer every main deck. That's why it's in the SB. Bolt is never dead in game 1 because it can always go to face. That's why it's in the main. Siding out Bolt for Moon is the same principle as siding out Goblin Guide and Steppe Lynx for something bigger.
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| Infect
Big Johnny.
I will conciede on the second point. blood moon Vs bolt. I'd personally rather run moon as a 1 or 2 of main to free up SB space and have an oops I win card against this meta than a I can 3 your face card.
I will point out that the statement of bolt should be in every red aggro deck except affinity is kinda foolish. In that very sentence you give a variable. If bolt is so good it should be played in every aggro deck then it should be played in affinity also, or some red aggro decks can get by without it, which this one could also be an exception also. Which is it?
Perhaps SB bolt to deal with pesky mana dorks or for matches you need a little more reach? (I've never been an advocate of this, but if it works in this deck...)
Draft My Cube!
what can you say about grim lavamancer? not sure if this would work alongside spell mastery and delve, but the card is easy to cast, doesn't lose it's value late game and can give us the last push we need to win.