MTG Salvation

So I have been fooling around with this deck for a while but have been missing a good win con. Paradox Engine is the perfect answer. Not sure it's enough to make the deck somewhat competitive but I'm definitely gonna give it a shot when the set is released.



This is basically a Modern version of the old busted Tolarian Academy + Mind Over Matter deck where your plan is to gain a ton of mana and draw a ton of cards and then in the end force your opponent to overdraw.

The combo might be a turn or so too slow, so it might be correct to go in a more controlling direction. Time will tell.

maybe find a spot for quicksmith spy? I know 4 mana but it turns the engine into a draw for every spell you have...

Spy is good when Engine resolves, but the deck should be winning at that point anyway by chaining BSZ's together. I also don't think that a 4 drop that dies to Bolt is playable. Especially in a deck that has no other creatures in it.

Thanks Torpf

I'm not so sure about the glass canon approach either. On paper I could see this being a turn 4-5 deck (closer to 5 than 4 probably) which is too slow without any disruption. The reason I'm gonna start with a full-on approach is because the support is always harder to figure out than the rest.

I could definitely see Ensnaring Bridge being a thing. Or maybe something like Gigadrowse and Exhaustion since they both protect against counters and fog as well. We probably don't need too much time with protection before we go off.

I've tried a similar deck where I ran 7 rocks and 7 charge buffs, which seemed to be somewhat consistent. That's 2 slots freed. Voltaic Key is also another card that could be shaved down to a couple. It is really powerful and can ramp you up insanely fast but with Engine it might not be necessary to run the full set.

How about this shell?

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/against-the-odds-to-myrfinity-and-beyond-modern


I might also want to explore the Grand architect and Chief engineer options

Seems a little too gimmicky. Green mana dorks make a lot more sense to me than playing Myrs. But if we go down that road why not just play combo-elves instead?

I guess that Grand Architect has some potential though. The only problem with him is that he lacks redundancy so you're turning it into a 3 card combo where you only can play 4 of at least two of the combo pieces (plus he dies to Bolt). Grand Architect plus Pili-Pala has been around for a long time and no one has been able to crack that code. I'm not sure that Paradox Engine brings anything new to that table other than some redundancy.

Not really sure but I think you can Paradox Engine + Isochron Scepter. Isochron Scepter says that you will cast that copy so probably It will trigger Paradox Engine. If It works you could start with mana dorks like Birds of Paradise them go infinite with Scepter.

Scepter makes more sense...could see going bant for the BoP and Noble - instant spells could be something like fog/silence/draw spell...I still think some mana rocks would make this more consistent

paradoxical outcome has a new friend. Ramp into paradox engine, return many 0-2 mana casting artifacts to your hand, draw a bunch of cards, cast them all, retapping mana stones each time something etb, and finish them with a fireball, etc. I wonder how soon this card will be banned and in which formats?

Quote from Master_Hades »

Not really sure but I think you can Paradox Engine + Isochron Scepter. Isochron Scepter says that you will cast that copy so probably It will trigger Paradox Engine. If It works you could start with mana dorks like Birds of Paradise them go infinite with Scepter.

Hades, take a look at my build start from the other thread if you want to go mana dorks/scepter.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/766339-paradox-engine?page=2
The deck is basically
12 mana dorks birds of paradise, elvish mystic, llanowar elves
8 zero mana spells,
4 Blossoming Defense,
4 Ranger's Guile
4 Isochron Scepter,
4 Engines.
20 forest
4 XXXXX
The problem is that you need a Scepter and an Engine for it to go off. Last 4 slots probably need to search for one of those two combo pieces.

I love the Mox Opals as another source of zero mana spell, but concerned it won't be consistent as mana dorks.

My first thought was Combo Elves (as that's one of the decks I play and a Primer I Mod). I hope it turns into a useful piece! 5-CRC is a lot; but that effect has been historically powerful with Heritage Druid and other dorks/Elves (and Archdruid for that matter).

I am at least gonna try it out. Nothing is more fun than spoilers

In terms of the isochron scepter idea + this, wouldn't you just want to imprint like a desperate ritual under scepter because that's infinite red mana and infinite storm with this out so then you just grapeshot them FTW. Or manamorphose draws your entire deck too since it's mana neutral and it can filter into any color as well.

Quote from Bread Connoisseur »

In terms of the isochron scepter idea + this, wouldn't you just want to imprint like a desperate ritual under scepter because that's infinite red mana and infinite storm with this out so then you just grapeshot them FTW. Or manamorphose draws your entire deck too since it's mana neutral and it can filter into any color as well.

That makes a lot more sense. That reduces it from a 6 card combo to a 3 card combo plus avoids playing around with fragile mana dorks and making it a subpar Jeskai Ascendancy deck.

Still, I feel that the key is to try to minimize the amount of moving pieces as much as possible. 3 card combos are usually not good enough for Modern. In this case though 2 of the combo pieces are good in a vacuum (Manamorphose and Scepter) so I can see some potential here.

It could look like something like this ?



I'm surely wrong about the Myr Turbine as a wincon in case we have a Ritual under Scepter, and because Fabricate could be a tutor for the combo itself, so an artifact finisher could emphasize the utility of the tutor. It's just that I'm not fully aware of the possibilities in that kind of deck. What token maker do we have that would cost 0-1 mana to activate (with the remaining Ritual mana) ?
In case we put Manamorphose under Scepter, of course we get to draw Grapeshot and win.
Lotus Bloom can be Pentad Prism.

What would this approach look like in a more competitive form ?

if your idea is paradox into scepter+spell on it for the untap into infinite mana, then I think that it makes more sense to run at least one aetherflux reservoir over a myr turbine. If nothing else, it is also a storm win and can be fetched via the fabricate you're already running.

That's neat indeed !

It appears to me that engine should just go in an eggs deck for infinite draws/dig.

Hello everyone who is interested in brewing with Paradox Engine.

I have recently written a primer for Dice Factory, a deck focused around ramping with the likes of charge counters. One thing I notice in this thread is that there is no mention of Ancient Stirrings. It is quite possibly the best filter/cantrip that we can run and can dig 5 for almost any card in the deck.

I am currently playtesting this on mtgo as an alternate version of my standard dice factory list. It is fun and I managed to combo off on turn 3 one game so far in the ~12 games I have with the Paradox Engine variant of Dice Factory. One thing I have noticed about using mill from Otherworld Atlas as the win condition is that it actually takes a long time to play through all of the triggers. By the time they are milled out, I could have 500+ mana if I wanted to take advantage of every trigger without actually casting all that many cards.



If you are interested in what other fun things charge counter ramp can do, be sure to check out the newly written primer!
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/770966-surge-modern-dice-factory#c6

Hey Red Baron, I watched your videos they were good stuff, I felt for the most part you made all the right plays and explained yourself nicely as the deck has a lot of moving parts. In feel you need to add more disruptive cards to your deck but it seems to run nicely as is and Wildfire is a great way to deny your opponent any ability to play magic.

I've been really busy lately but I'm hoping to attend a few FNM'a this month and will post my deck list and results here soon!

Red Baron, I really like Wildfire in there. Seems like a good defensive card to ramp into. I wonder if the second copy of Elixir is redundant. Is it as an anti aggro tool? If so I feel that green has better things to offer in that spot. Personally I prefer Emmy over Elixir (you can draw almost your entire deck, pass the turn and discard down to hand size and then mill your opponent during his next upkeep). This way you don't get owned by a random counterspell and it also gives you another thing to ramp into (in case you don't draw the Atlas).

I made my list before the whole set was spoiled and I wonder if Reverse Engineer and Metallic Rebuke deserve some spots in the 75.

@ Badabingbadabum

Hey dude, didn't see you replied on here. Wildfire was an anti-everything tool. It would just completely shut decks down. Now that Death Shadow is the flavor of the month, I am starting to lean off of that plan and subbing Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas in its place. The card is a house. I feel like I'm playing legacy when I ramp into him on turn 2. Emmy is nice and I have thought about running him, but she is a do nothing card if your ramp is disrupted and can be targeted by graveyard hate, unlike Elixir. Having two gave the deck redundancy during the combo if one happened to get destroyed or countered and the opponent had more cards in the deck than I did. With Tezzeret in the deck, we can just win through direct damage via his ult or deck the opponent mid-combo. It is nice to have another out if things go bad. Elixir also has a cmc of 1 so it can be played mid combo for more gas. The lifegain is pretty relevant and it just does a lot more most of the time. It can be found with Tezzeret, Glint-Nest Crane, Inventors' Fair, Whir of Invention, or Ancient Stirrings unlike Emrakual, the Aeons Torn giving a little more flexibility in deck building and outs.


We have a lot of good discussion going on about the combo over at the Dice Factory Primer and it has become one of the main win conditions to build the deck around. I think the you may be able to find more in depth and engaging discussion over at the primer. If we consolidate the discussion to one thread as the combo is pretty niche, it will be easier to grow the deck and make it more competitively viable. I am doing a ton of testing on MTGO as are others and reporting what we find with a few good tourney write-ups as well. The difference between us and the storm or eggs lists here is that we are actually playing the deck and investing time into it rather than just speculating about it from what I can tell and Dice Factory gives you much more flexibility in the build.

Come check us out!
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/770966-surge-modern-dice-factory