Oh, I played the deck in the FNM. Some of the guys there suggested to me to replace Puresteel Paladin with Sram, Senior Edificer because Sram is better. Hopefully that makes sense...
I haven't tried it myself to replace Puresteel. I saw it mentioned a little bit in one of the previous convo - but never discussed in length. So just looking for opinion
I love that you're bringing idea to the table, but there is an inherent issue with the deck you're trying to make.
This deck works by being fast, consistent and relentless. Bringing too much toolbox into the mix will dillute that immensely. I've tried all sorts of things, and my conclusion have always ended with "Well I could just play Kor Duelist and beat the everliving sh*t out of people instead..." There are very interesting prospects for splashing red, especially with the new fastlands, but the deck is just so incredibly tight as is, there's no space for red cards unless you make major changes to how the deck functions (which may very well work for all I know).
I still am incredibly interested in how Sacred Cat performs. I have a sneaking suspicion it will be absolutely disgusting against anything that wants to go 1-for-1 and kill you (Jund, Junk, etc.) which has been a tough matchup for us. In the same vein, Adorned Pouncer could also be very interesting. Another double-striker who also comes back? Sign me up!
Yes Doomed Traveler is also a card that I had forgotten exists haha. I think the cat is better still. The lifelink is huge in some matchups, and being able to force decks like Jund to burn two removals for one card is not to be understated. I think both of them have the potential to be great, but I'd say that the lifelink provides slightly more versatility than evasion in the sense that evasion not a huge problem for this deck in my experience. That is not to say evasion is bad, but there are very good sideboard options for that (O-Naginata, Infiltration Lens, etc.).
Yeah, there are interesting cards in WR for sure. Goblin Gaveleer is up there too.
One thing I thought about with the cat vs traveler is that maybe the fact that the spirit from the traveler is created immediately is a detriment sometimes? I can come up with situations where I'd like to keep the cat in the graveyard, play other things while keeping the option of bringing it back. There are other creatures in the deck after all - There's no need to immediately bring it back 100% of the time. I'd even wager that most of the time, you have better things to do than bring it back and the Spirit token just laying around makes you more vulnerable to multi-target removal and sweepers.
That may indeed be true. It was just something you might not think about at first glance. I just ordered some cats and some travelers. I'll be testing both in a few different configurations to see what fits.
I'm tempted to replace Kor Duelist with Adorned Pouncer... Do you think it'll make the deck to be slower? Given the current meta in my area which is Burn, Grixis Control, and sometimes Dredge, the eternalize is really good. But the Sacred Cat could be quicker as it costs only 1 white to embalm....
I don't think that Adorned Pouncer can ever replace Kor Duelist in the deck. You can't set up 6 damage on turn two with Pouncer, and the Eternalize is way too slow to be relevant against Burn or Dredge. As for Sacred Cat, you have the same problem of losing a lot of your explosive potential. However, as you noted, the embalm is much easier to achieve, and the lifelink does actually help against aggro decks. Still, I'm certain that if you want it in your maindeck, Kor Duelist is not the card that you should take out.
Yea, I was just reviewing the recent Amonkhet and Hour of Devastation set to see whether there are some other cards that would fit well on the main deck. There may be some that could fit in sideboard:
- Crook of condemnation against dredge
- Saving Grace against storm
Saving Grace doesn't really work against Storm, unfortunately. Since the damage is divided among all the grapes, it will save you from damage equal to the enchanted creature's toughness, the creature will die in between spells due to state-based actions, and then the rest will hit you.
Crook will have to compete with Relic and RiP. It's pretty expensive compared to Relic and doesn't draw a card, but that targeting is really nice, and unlike RiP, it doesn't hurt our own cards.
Hello everyone! After what feels like years of radio silence I bring you an update along with some good news for the future of this deck
I've finally had the opportunity to play some serious Magic after a long pause. This means that I got to test a bunch of cards and talk to a bunch of people who (understandably) raised their brow at this weird concoction of mine. I've changed my list quite a bit as a result of. The current list is as following:
This has been working pretty well. There are good and bad about the changes though.
The cats are amazing. They even managed to net me a win against legacy burn. Great addition.
Moving the swords to the board felt good too. Even more streamlined deck!
We're back up to 4 Skirges. They're better than the cats so I might as well play 4/3 split. Maybe a 3/2 split could work instead?
Removal of 2 Firewalkers in the board freed up some space there. The cats help so much in the matchup that they're not needed anymore. I'm considering dropping them entirely in favor of additional feline friends.
Sram feels great. Him and Paladin complement each other well, just like I thought.
Apart from this there's one glaring issue that lost me a lot of games over the past weekend: There are simply too few equipments as is. There were a lot of games where I had 2-3 creatures and only 1 equipment in my opening 7, which is not exactly ideal for this type of deck. This also means more duds on draws from Paladin or Sram. What do we do about this? I've been toying with the idea of cutting down on creatures a bunch. Doing things like going to 3/2 on Skirges and cats and going to 3/3 or 3/4 on Steelshapers and outfitters. This would free up space to add things like Shuko or perhaps more utility like Infiltration Lens. Bottom line here is that we need more cheap, efficient equipments. What do you think?
I've changed the board a bit too. Removing the Firewalkers entirely in place of 2 cats is a very tempting idea if we go with the 3/2 or 4/2 split on skirges and cats. This would leave space for other things like Solemnity or additional copies of Mortarpod. I also got this wacky idea of cutting Spellskite from the board. I can't remember the last time I brought it in. Can you?
Finally I'll get to the aforementioned "good news", even though they may be slightly personal. For the past year I haven't gotten much Magic-playing done due to a lack of people to play with. However, I just found some new people to play with which means that I'll probably be able to test things a lot more than I have been. This means that the primer as well as the deck will continue to evolve and improve instead of the somewhat concerning stasis the deck has been in for the past year.
I'm afraid this is all from me for now. I will be updating the primer with all the Amonkhet goodies we got as well as the new lists and tech we've come up with sometime in the near future, so keep your eyes peeled for that!
I'm pretty sure that you have 64 cards in your deck. It says that the deck only has 10 artifacts, but I count 14 (20 if you include the Skirges and Citadels).
I agree that the deck is lacking in decent, cheap equipment. Infiltration Lens and O-Naginata aren't that good, and even when they are okay, they're only played as a 1-2 of. The swords are great, but they're super clunky. I was actually considering playing a couple of Darksteel Axes. Yes, it's really inefficient when compared to Bonesplitter. However, Affinity is one of the most popular decks, and when Affinity gets played, so too does artifact hate. The majority of artifact hate comes in the form of destroy effects (with the exception of Stony Silence), and Axe gets around all of those.
In regards to the board, have you considered replacing Rest in Peace with Relic? Before, it could be argued that the effect was worth sacrificing the card draw from Outfitter, but now, it non-bos with seven of your cards, eight if you decide to replace the Firewalkers.
Oops. I can't math it seems! I didn't have my list next to me while typing that out so I just kind of winged it. I'll change that.
You raise good points. All of them actually. Darksteel Axe is a card I've been considering, even if it hurts my soul to do so. Maybe you could fit 3? Relic in the board is also really interesting. I think it could turn out to be a great change considering it offers easier metalcraft + no more non-bos with the now non-insignificant amount of graveyard interaction.
Now that I've actually looked at my physical list I think I see where the problem lies. I currently only have 1 Flayer Husk in the maindeck. That number needs to be brought up to 4. The way to accomplish that is to do this:
I really like this deck, I used to play with a WW equipments deck in Mirrodin standard long time ago. (Auriok Steelshaper and Bone Saw are the only cards remaining)
this is my list, a little more budget (no Path sadly)
I really like O-Naginata, great vs decks who can chump block Kor Duelist again and again to gain time. Steelshaper's Gift makes the deck a bit slower but having the option to choose what I need to the board is great, otherwise I simply search for Bone-Saw/Splitter.
Lone Rider is another card that I'm testing, it help me with lifegain and if I'm able to flip it becomes quite brutal.
My sideboard choices are debatable, and budget/local-meta based.
Auriok Steelshaper is just better. If its equipped its the same size, not legendary, it boosts all the other soldiers and knights in the deck. It might be acceptable as a fifth Auriok Steelshaper, but I'm not sure you want a fifth Auriok Steelshaper.
Yeah, I saw Valduk and thought "time to visit the pb&j thread." I've been having fun online with an equips aggro deck that plays, along with the usual suspects of duelist, outfitter, and paladin, Shuko and Lighning greaves to combo with crackdown construct. The combo is pretty mediocre, but the free equips go really really well with Valduk. The dream would be turn 1 shuko, turn 2 greaves, turn 3 Valduk and swing for 10.
I think Valduk is a really powerful, relatively cheap and sppashable payoff card that has me excited to brew some more.
I like Mox Opal here, even though the artifact count is a little low, although the three Steelshaper's gifts doe act as a functional 1-3 cmc artifact. The idea would be to hit metalcraft more on turns 2-3. I really don't know the right numbers for equips/creatures, but testing will help there. In my pre-valduk games, baslisk collar has been amazing, so right now I'm on a 1/1 main/sideboard split. It makes duelest win combat and makes the crackdown combo give you infinite life if they chump block.
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I haven't tried it myself to replace Puresteel. I saw it mentioned a little bit in one of the previous convo - but never discussed in length. So just looking for opinion
U Merfolk U
W Mono W PBJ W
UBRGDredgeGRBU
EDH:
U Arcum Dagsson U
~I think Randy Buehler's mug is buehlertiful~
This deck works by being fast, consistent and relentless. Bringing too much toolbox into the mix will dillute that immensely. I've tried all sorts of things, and my conclusion have always ended with "Well I could just play Kor Duelist and beat the everliving sh*t out of people instead..." There are very interesting prospects for splashing red, especially with the new fastlands, but the deck is just so incredibly tight as is, there's no space for red cards unless you make major changes to how the deck functions (which may very well work for all I know).
I still am incredibly interested in how Sacred Cat performs. I have a sneaking suspicion it will be absolutely disgusting against anything that wants to go 1-for-1 and kill you (Jund, Junk, etc.) which has been a tough matchup for us. In the same vein, Adorned Pouncer could also be very interesting. Another double-striker who also comes back? Sign me up!
U Merfolk U
W Mono W PBJ W
UBRGDredgeGRBU
EDH:
U Arcum Dagsson U
~I think Randy Buehler's mug is buehlertiful~
U Merfolk U
W Mono W PBJ W
UBRGDredgeGRBU
EDH:
U Arcum Dagsson U
~I think Randy Buehler's mug is buehlertiful~
U Merfolk U
W Mono W PBJ W
UBRGDredgeGRBU
EDH:
U Arcum Dagsson U
~I think Randy Buehler's mug is buehlertiful~
One thing I thought about with the cat vs traveler is that maybe the fact that the spirit from the traveler is created immediately is a detriment sometimes? I can come up with situations where I'd like to keep the cat in the graveyard, play other things while keeping the option of bringing it back. There are other creatures in the deck after all - There's no need to immediately bring it back 100% of the time. I'd even wager that most of the time, you have better things to do than bring it back and the Spirit token just laying around makes you more vulnerable to multi-target removal and sweepers.
Just a thought.
U Merfolk U
W Mono W PBJ W
UBRGDredgeGRBU
EDH:
U Arcum Dagsson U
~I think Randy Buehler's mug is buehlertiful~
U Merfolk U
W Mono W PBJ W
UBRGDredgeGRBU
EDH:
U Arcum Dagsson U
~I think Randy Buehler's mug is buehlertiful~
U Merfolk U
W Mono W PBJ W
UBRGDredgeGRBU
EDH:
U Arcum Dagsson U
~I think Randy Buehler's mug is buehlertiful~
- Crook of condemnation against dredge
- Saving Grace against storm
Crook will have to compete with Relic and RiP. It's pretty expensive compared to Relic and doesn't draw a card, but that targeting is really nice, and unlike RiP, it doesn't hurt our own cards.
I've finally had the opportunity to play some serious Magic after a long pause. This means that I got to test a bunch of cards and talk to a bunch of people who (understandably) raised their brow at this weird concoction of mine. I've changed my list quite a bit as a result of. The current list is as following:
4 Kor Duelist
4 Vault Skirge
3 Puresteel Paladin
2 Sram, Senior Edificer
3 Auriok Steelshaper
4 Stone Haven Outfitter
3 Sacred Cat
Spells- 8
4 Strength of Arms
4 Path to Exile
4 Bone Saw
4 Bonesplitter
2 Mortarpod
1 Flayer Husk
Lands- 18
2 Darksteel Citadel
2 Ghost Quarter
14 Plains
2 Rest in Peace
4 Dispatch
2 Spellskite
1 Mortarpod
2 Fragmentize
2 Sword of Feast and Famine
2 Kor Firewalker
This has been working pretty well. There are good and bad about the changes though.
I've changed the board a bit too. Removing the Firewalkers entirely in place of 2 cats is a very tempting idea if we go with the 3/2 or 4/2 split on skirges and cats. This would leave space for other things like Solemnity or additional copies of Mortarpod. I also got this wacky idea of cutting Spellskite from the board. I can't remember the last time I brought it in. Can you?
Finally I'll get to the aforementioned "good news", even though they may be slightly personal. For the past year I haven't gotten much Magic-playing done due to a lack of people to play with. However, I just found some new people to play with which means that I'll probably be able to test things a lot more than I have been. This means that the primer as well as the deck will continue to evolve and improve instead of the somewhat concerning stasis the deck has been in for the past year.
I'm afraid this is all from me for now. I will be updating the primer with all the Amonkhet goodies we got as well as the new lists and tech we've come up with sometime in the near future, so keep your eyes peeled for that!
Cheers!
U Merfolk U
W Mono W PBJ W
UBRGDredgeGRBU
EDH:
U Arcum Dagsson U
~I think Randy Buehler's mug is buehlertiful~
I agree that the deck is lacking in decent, cheap equipment. Infiltration Lens and O-Naginata aren't that good, and even when they are okay, they're only played as a 1-2 of. The swords are great, but they're super clunky. I was actually considering playing a couple of Darksteel Axes. Yes, it's really inefficient when compared to Bonesplitter. However, Affinity is one of the most popular decks, and when Affinity gets played, so too does artifact hate. The majority of artifact hate comes in the form of destroy effects (with the exception of Stony Silence), and Axe gets around all of those.
In regards to the board, have you considered replacing Rest in Peace with Relic? Before, it could be argued that the effect was worth sacrificing the card draw from Outfitter, but now, it non-bos with seven of your cards, eight if you decide to replace the Firewalkers.
You raise good points. All of them actually. Darksteel Axe is a card I've been considering, even if it hurts my soul to do so. Maybe you could fit 3? Relic in the board is also really interesting. I think it could turn out to be a great change considering it offers easier metalcraft + no more non-bos with the now non-insignificant amount of graveyard interaction.
Now that I've actually looked at my physical list I think I see where the problem lies. I currently only have 1 Flayer Husk in the maindeck. That number needs to be brought up to 4. The way to accomplish that is to do this:
Creatures - 20
4 Kor Duelist
2 Vault Skirge
3 Puresteel Paladin
2 Sram, Senior Edificer
3 Auriok Steelshaper
4 Stone Haven Outfitter
2 Sacred Cat
4 Strength of Arms
4 Path to Exile
Artifacts - 14
4 Bone Saw
4 Bonesplitter
2 Mortarpod
4 Flayer Husk
2 Darksteel Citadel
2 Ghost Quarter
14 Plains
2 Rest in Peace
4 Dispatch
2 Spellskite
1 Mortarpod
2 Fragmentize
2 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sacred Cat
1 Vault Skirge
U Merfolk U
W Mono W PBJ W
UBRGDredgeGRBU
EDH:
U Arcum Dagsson U
~I think Randy Buehler's mug is buehlertiful~
Any sideboard/play tips against these decks?
this is my list, a little more budget (no Path sadly)
4 Kor Duelist
4 Stone Haven Outfitter
3 Auriok Steelshaper
3 Puresteel Paladin
2 Sram, Senior Edificer
2 Sacred Cat
2 Vault Skirge
1 Lone Rider
Spells - 7
3 Dispatch
2 Steelshaper's gift
2 Strength of Arms
4 Bone Saw
4 Bonesplitter
2 Mortarpod
2 Flayer Husk
1 O-Naginata
1 Infiltration lens
Lands - 18
2 Darksteel Citadel
1 Ghost Quarter
15 Plains
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Spellskite
1 Mortarpod
2 Fragmentize
1 Disenchant
1 Sacred Cat
1 Auriok Bladewarden
2 Patrician's Scorn
1 dispatch
1 brave the elements
1 accorder's shield
I really like O-Naginata, great vs decks who can chump block Kor Duelist again and again to gain time. Steelshaper's Gift makes the deck a bit slower but having the option to choose what I need to the board is great, otherwise I simply search for Bone-Saw/Splitter.
Lone Rider is another card that I'm testing, it help me with lifegain and if I'm able to flip it becomes quite brutal.
My sideboard choices are debatable, and budget/local-meta based.
2 mana is too expensive?
Ah gotcha. I was about to say. Haha
So has anyone had positive results with this deck recently? I’m super tempted to build this in paper.
Auriok Steelshaper is just better. If its equipped its the same size, not legendary, it boosts all the other soldiers and knights in the deck. It might be acceptable as a fifth Auriok Steelshaper, but I'm not sure you want a fifth Auriok Steelshaper.
I think Valduk is a really powerful, relatively cheap and sppashable payoff card that has me excited to brew some more.
4 Kor Duelist
2 Goblin Gaveleer
1 Signal Pest
3 Puresteel Paladin
4 Stone Haven Outfitter
4 Valduk, Keeper of the Flame
2 Crackdown Construct
Other Permanents: 15
3 Mox Opal
2 Bone Saw
4 Shuko
1 Flayer Husk
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Cranial Plating
1 Mortarpod
2 Lightning Greaves
3 Galvanic Blast
3 Steelshaper's Gift
Land: 19
4 Spire of Industry
1 Glimmervoid
2 Battlefield Forge
4 Darksteel Citadel
2 Plains
1 Mountain
4 Inspiring Vantage
3 Wear/Tear
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Pithing Needle
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Damping Sphere
1 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
2 Worship
1 Leonin Shikari
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Rest in Peace
I like Mox Opal here, even though the artifact count is a little low, although the three Steelshaper's gifts doe act as a functional 1-3 cmc artifact. The idea would be to hit metalcraft more on turns 2-3. I really don't know the right numbers for equips/creatures, but testing will help there. In my pre-valduk games, baslisk collar has been amazing, so right now I'm on a 1/1 main/sideboard split. It makes duelest win combat and makes the crackdown combo give you infinite life if they chump block.