Should I add 4x Birds of Paradise to speed up the deck ? They also have evasion so could act as finishers as well.
What I consider cutting are: 1-2x lands, 1x Satyr Wayfinder and 1-2x Hunted Horror.
Would replacing Pack Rat with Noose Constrictor be a good idea ?
It is a much better discard outlet but doesn't take over a game like the rat can.
Another option is Cryptbreaker.
Would Chord of Calling work in this deck as an additional tutor option for the combo ? The triple-green doesn't seem that easy to hit.
The deck is creature heavy but most are black (can't help with green mana for chord) and some are meant to be discarded rather than cast.
After some testing the Birds of Paradise proved pretty good so I'm keeping them in.
I'm also looking to replace Hunted Horror as my secondary scavenge creature for something I can actually cast and Nyxathid seems like the best alternative, Phyrexian Soulgorger can also be used as a 1-turn blocker and maybe even attack once (if I sac' a Birds or another creature).
Is it a good idea ?
That's funny. I actually started working on a similar deck about the same time.
I played a B/G scavenge deck in standard during RTR and it's my favorite deck I've ever played. So I wanted to recreate it for modern. It's a shame Deathrite Shaman is banned as it was a pretty important piece.
Anyway, this is what I've come up with so far. I think Jund is the best option as opposed to straight B/G.
Have you considered dredgers like Golgari Grave Troll? It would make an easy way to discard a creature to troll every turn as well as help fill your yard with cards like Death's Shadow and Hunted Horror. Seems like you aren't quite getting the advantage from your yard as you could. Not sure I like Phyrexian Crusader as a scavenge target, but it could be fine being pro red/white.
Any alternative to Phyrexian Crusader you can suggest ?
It is rather difficult to deal with for many decks (it ignores: Path to Exile, Terminate, Lightning Bolt) as the most common spells that kill it are Dismember and Abrupt Decay.
It also fares rather well against opposing creatures in combat.
And it can also win games if left unanswered (with help from Inkmoth Nexus) even without comboing-off.
I think Eldritch Evolution is probably the better choice. With 22 lands, reliably hitting the fourth land on turn 4 could be an issue. It's on the cusp though. So YMMV.
I plan to replace Pack Rat with the new Cryptbreaker.
It costs less to cast and to discard, and also with another 8 zombies (4x Lotleth Troll and 4x Phyrexian Crusader) in the deck activating it's second ability can be rather doable.
Cryptbreaker could be good for the card draw, but I feel like it might be a little slow for modern. It also doesn't get bigger by any ability of its own, and it's not a good scavenge target, either to be scavenged or scavenged onto.
If you want more draw, with the low curve of the deck, I really think dark confidant is a good choice. If you can stomach $40 per copy. Doesn't let you discard or have the zombie creature type though. Also, if you want more GY fuel, Splinterfright costs 3, gets bigger as you pitch stuff, has trample and puts two cards in your graveyard each turn.
Here's what mine is evolving into, though I still haven't gotten to test it against a live person yet.
Borrowed your Inkmoth Nexus idea, so thanks for that! My primary concern at this point is having a troll that I've put so many resources into getting exiled, or neutered in some other fashion. So I put 3 Spellskites in the board. I think it's a good option as these kind of decks tend to put most of their eggs in one basket.
I have a problem with continuously tweaking decks I've yet to play... Haha.
What do you think of Liliana, Heretical Healer? You can trigger her to flip by playing death's shadow at anything >12 life. She will also trigger if you sack something to regenerate Varolz, in my case she will also trigger if they take the 4 from Vexing Devil, allowing you to put things you need into the graveyard while simultaneously wrecking their hand.
Very much dislike the phyrexian crusader tbh. Its just inkmoth without evasion. Lotleth Troll is just a better target overall. I would reccomend possibly Den Protector?
Also i'd highly reccomend siding some Ground Seal. Saves you from most graveyard hate, the only notable exception being Rest In Peace
Den Protector is very easily removed and can't act as a reliable finisher, also without scavenging it is rather weak and using him as a morph is really slow and not mana-efficient.
I'm still looking for more options for the finisher role (currently occupied by 4x Phyrexian Crusader + 1x Thrun, the Last Troll) and any other ideas to improve the deck.
I would suggest cutting some of the 4-ofs in the deck since you have the tutoring power of Fauna Shaman and Eldritch Evolution. Also Spellskite is good to have because no matter how much P/T a creature has it can still get hit by Path to Exile or Abrupt Decay. More discard would probably be a good idea.
EDIT: Going for the Grim Flayer plan over Bob may not be the worst actually. Has Trample and can connect easily, and helps dump stuff into the graveyard....
It seems a bit slow and: P.Crusader (pro-red), L.Troll (can regenarate) and G.Flayer with delirium don't really care about L.Bolt.
I might as well use Eternal Witness for this purpose.
Fatal Push can indeed be a problem as only L.Troll with regeneration mana up can survive it, and it kills an Inkmoth as well.
But I have some discard spells that can hopefully help with that and "Revolt" won't always be available to kill P.Crusader.
The deck is comprised of 3 main parts: the enablers, the finishers/win-cons and the support/utility spells.
The Enablers - there two main options here: the self-mill route and the discard-outlets one.
1. Lotleth Troll - can act as both enabler and finisher in a creature-heavy build.
2. Death's Shadow + Hunted Horror - the main and most efficient scavenge targets for the deck
(other options are: Force of Savagery, Phyrexian Soulgorger, Nyxathid, Sheltering Ancient, Myr Superion and Lupine Prototype).
3. Fauna Shaman - can help discard and find Varolz or other combo pieces.
4. Pack Rat - can help discard combo pieces and also grind out games as a plan B.
5. More discard-iutlet options are: Noose Constrictor, Cryptbreaker and Llanowar Mentor.
6. Satyr Wayfinder + Grisly Salvage (Grapple with the Past) - can help put cards in the graveyard and find lands/creatures.
7. Traverse the Ulvenwald - with more focus on delirium can find any combo piece in the deck.
8. More tutor options: Chord of Calling, Summoner's Pact, Time of Need and Eldritch Evolution.
The Finishers - Here the options are to go with resilent/hexproof creatures or infect creatures that can end the game quickly.
1. Phyrexian Crusader - seems to be the best of both kinds as it is hard to kill and can end games quickly, the downside is lack of any real evasion.
2. Inkmoth Nexus - flying and Infect with a low opportunity cost (additional manland options can be: Hissing Quagmire, Treetop Village and Blinkmoth Nexus).
3. Thrun, the Last Troll - a resilent threat that is good even without the combo.
4. Various other hexproof creatures: Troll Ascetic, Witchstalker, Bassara Tower Archer, Gladecover Scout, Slippery Bogle, Silhana Ledgewalker.
5. Other infect creatures: Glistener Elf and Plague Stinger.
6. Birds of Paradise - has evasion and can help ramp and color-fix.
Utility - the regular good b/g spells that help disrupt the opponent and stay in the game:
Abrupt Decay, Maelstrom Pulse, Dismember, Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek.
Here is my initial draft of the deck which I'm looking for feedback on:
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Death's Shadow
2x Hunted Horror
4x Lotleth Troll
4x Fauna Shaman
2x Pack Rat
4x Phyrexian Crusader
4x Varolz, the Scar-Striped
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Thoughtseize
1x Maelstrom Pulse
Instant (3)
3x Abrupt Decay
Land (22)
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Windswept Heath
2x Bloodstained Mire
4x Overgrown Tomb
2x Forest
2x Swamp
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Inkmoth Nexus
1x Treetop Village
What I consider cutting are: 1-2x lands, 1x Satyr Wayfinder and 1-2x Hunted Horror.
Would replacing Pack Rat with Noose Constrictor be a good idea ?
It is a much better discard outlet but doesn't take over a game like the rat can.
Another option is Cryptbreaker.
Would Chord of Calling work in this deck as an additional tutor option for the combo ? The triple-green doesn't seem that easy to hit.
The deck is creature heavy but most are black (can't help with green mana for chord) and some are meant to be discarded rather than cast.
Or maybe Summoner's Pact is the better option ? Or Time of Need (can only get Varolz) ?
I'm also looking to replace Hunted Horror as my secondary scavenge creature for something I can actually cast and Nyxathid seems like the best alternative, Phyrexian Soulgorger can also be used as a 1-turn blocker and maybe even attack once (if I sac' a Birds or another creature).
Is it a good idea ?
I played a B/G scavenge deck in standard during RTR and it's my favorite deck I've ever played. So I wanted to recreate it for modern. It's a shame Deathrite Shaman is banned as it was a pretty important piece.
Anyway, this is what I've come up with so far. I think Jund is the best option as opposed to straight B/G.
Main Deck (60)
Creatures (28)
2 Death's Shadow
4 Gravecrawler
4 Slitherhead
4 Vexing Devil
3 Bloodghast
4 Lotleth Troll
3 Splinterfright
4 Varolz, the Scar-Striped
Spells (11)
4 Faithless Looting
2 Life from the Loam
2 Sign in Blood
3 Grisly Salvage
Lands (21)
2 Blood Crypt
2 Dragonskull Summit
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Rootbound Crag
2 Stomping Ground
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Woodland Cemetery
3 Forest
4 Swamp
Sideboard (15)
3 Thoughtseize
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Golgari Charm
3 Avatar of Discord
It's still in the works and I'm on the fence about mainboarding removal seeing as it can swing for 19 with trample on turn four.
Any alternative to Phyrexian Crusader you can suggest ?
It is rather difficult to deal with for many decks (it ignores: Path to Exile, Terminate, Lightning Bolt) as the most common spells that kill it are Dismember and Abrupt Decay.
It also fares rather well against opposing creatures in combat.
And it can also win games if left unanswered (with help from Inkmoth Nexus) even without comboing-off.
Another idea I thought about is with all the tutors in the deck I can probably slot in singleton copies of Kitchen Finks and Melira, Sylvok Outcast to form a secondary combo together with Varolz, the Scar-Striped.
Is it a good idea ?
Maybe sideboard it against things that are too aggro and you need the life gain?
The only problem I see with JUST relying on Death's Shadow and Hunted Horror is you're kind of exposing yourself to surgical extraction.
The main options seem to be:
Chord of Calling, Summoner's Pact and Time of Need (can get Varolz, Melira or Thrun).
Some other options are Eldritch Evolution and Jarad's Orders (Varolz to hand and Death's Shadow to the GY).
Which should I go with ?
Surgical Extraction can indeed be a problem, in that case I"ll have to grind it out with the manlands, Phyrexian Crusader, Pack Rat and Thrun, the Last Troll.
I also have the 4x BoP as additional mana sources.
I think that I can probably fit in 2x Eldritch Evolution over the 2x Hunted Horror.
I'm not sure though what else I can trim to include the 1x Melira, Sylvok Outcast and 1x Kitchen Finks as well.
I plan to replace Pack Rat with the new Cryptbreaker.
It costs less to cast and to discard, and also with another 8 zombies (4x Lotleth Troll and 4x Phyrexian Crusader) in the deck activating it's second ability can be rather doable.
Cryptbreaker could be good for the card draw, but I feel like it might be a little slow for modern. It also doesn't get bigger by any ability of its own, and it's not a good scavenge target, either to be scavenged or scavenged onto.
If you want more draw, with the low curve of the deck, I really think dark confidant is a good choice. If you can stomach $40 per copy. Doesn't let you discard or have the zombie creature type though. Also, if you want more GY fuel, Splinterfright costs 3, gets bigger as you pitch stuff, has trample and puts two cards in your graveyard each turn.
Here's what mine is evolving into, though I still haven't gotten to test it against a live person yet.
Borrowed your Inkmoth Nexus idea, so thanks for that! My primary concern at this point is having a troll that I've put so many resources into getting exiled, or neutered in some other fashion. So I put 3 Spellskites in the board. I think it's a good option as these kind of decks tend to put most of their eggs in one basket.
Main Deck (60)
Creatures (28)
2 Death's Shadow
4 Gravecrawler
4 Slitherhead
4 Vexing Devil
3 Bloodghast
4 Lotleth Troll
3 Splinterfright
4 Varolz, the Scar-Striped
Spells (11)
3 Faithless Looting
2 Life from the Loam
3 Grisly Salvage
3 Sign in Blood
Lands (21)
1 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Woodland Cemetery
2 Dragonskull Summit
2 Forest
2 Rootbound Crag
2 Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Blood Crypt
3 Overgrown Tomb
Sideboard (15)
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Spellskite
4 Golgari Charm
I would also suggest Painful Truths over Sign in Blood.
I don't really have room for Dark Confidant (who is obviously very good) and he doesn't directly help the combo.
Here is my updated build with the new cards and some tweaks:
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Death's Shadow
2x Cryptbreaker
4x Lotleth Troll
4x Fauna Shaman
4x Phyrexian Crusader
4x Varolz, the Scar-Striped
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
Sorcery (7)
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Thoughtseize
2x Eldritch Evolution
4x Abrupt Decay
Land (22)
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Windswept Heath
1x Bloodstained Mire
4x Overgrown Tomb
2x Woodland Cemetery
2x Forest
2x Swamp
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Inkmoth Nexus
1x Treetop Village
1x Beast Within
1x Dismember
2x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Natural State
2x Scavenging Ooze
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Thoughtseize
What do you think of Liliana, Heretical Healer? You can trigger her to flip by playing death's shadow at anything >12 life. She will also trigger if you sack something to regenerate Varolz, in my case she will also trigger if they take the 4 from Vexing Devil, allowing you to put things you need into the graveyard while simultaneously wrecking their hand.
Also i'd highly reccomend siding some Ground Seal. Saves you from most graveyard hate, the only notable exception being Rest In Peace
(avoids: Path to Exile, Lightning Bolt, Terminate and Kolaghan's Command) and blocks pretty well.
It is also a 5-turn clock on it's own even without scavenging onto and can't be blocked by: Lingering Souls tokens, Kitchen Finks, Voice of Resurgence, Restoration Angel, Wall of Omens.
Den Protector is very easily removed and can't act as a reliable finisher, also without scavenging it is rather weak and using him as a morph is really slow and not mana-efficient.
Ground Seal seems a bit narrow, Beast Within/Natural State/Maelstrom Pulse can remove the most common grave hosers (RiP and Relic) while dealing with other things as well.
I consider including Oath of Nissa to add consistency to the deck (like Serum Visions in blue decks) but I'm not sure what to replace (maybe: Thrun, the Last Troll, Eldritch Evolution, Cryptbreaker or a land).
Here is the updated build:
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Death's Shadow
2x Cryptbreaker
4x Lotleth Troll
4x Fauna Shaman
4x Phyrexian Crusader
4x Varolz, the Scar-Striped
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
Sorcery (7)
4x Collective Brutality
1x Thoughtseize
2x Eldritch Evolution
4x Abrupt Decay
Land (22)
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Windswept Heath
1x Bloodstained Mire
4x Overgrown Tomb
2x Woodland Cemetery
2x Forest
2x Swamp
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Inkmoth Nexus
1x Treetop Village
1x Beast Within
1x Dismember
2x Grafdigger's Cage
3x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Natural State
2x Scavenging Ooze
2x Surgical Extraction
3x Thoughtseize
I'm still looking for more options for the finisher role (currently occupied by 4x Phyrexian Crusader + 1x Thrun, the Last Troll) and any other ideas to improve the deck.
I would suggest cutting some of the 4-ofs in the deck since you have the tutoring power of Fauna Shaman and Eldritch Evolution. Also Spellskite is good to have because no matter how much P/T a creature has it can still get hit by Path to Exile or Abrupt Decay. More discard would probably be a good idea.
Something like:
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Death's Shadow
2x Dark Confidant
4x Lotleth Troll
3x Fauna Shaman
2x Spellskite
2x Phyrexian Crusader
4x Varolz, the Scar-Striped
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
3x Collective Brutality
2x Thoughtseize
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Eldritch Evolution (Maybe)
Instant (4)
4x Abrupt Decay
Land (22)
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Overgrown Tomb
2x Woodland Cemetery
2x Blooming Marsh
2x Forest
2x Swamp
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Inkmoth Nexus
1x Treetop Village
EDIT: Going for the Grim Flayer plan over Bob may not be the worst actually. Has Trample and can connect easily, and helps dump stuff into the graveyard....
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/552949
It is not quite focused on the combo but shares some elements with my build.
Grim Flayer definetly seems like a good option for the deck and should probably replace at least the:
2x Cryptbreaker and 1x Thrun, the Last Troll.
I also consider cutting the Eldritch Evolution for more interaction, probably Fatal Push (or maybe Inquisition of Kozilek) or the maindeck Spellskites.
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Death's Shadow
4x Grim Flayer
4x Lotleth Troll
4x Fauna Shaman
4x Phyrexian Crusader
4x Varolz, the Scar-Striped
Instant (6)
3x Fatal Push
3x Abrupt Decay
Sorcery (4)
1x Thoughtseize
3x Collective Brutality
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Windswept Heath
1x Bloodstained Mire
3x Overgrown Tomb
4x Blooming Marsh
2x Forest
2x Swamp
4x Inkmoth Nexus
1x Treetop Village
2x Scavenging Ooze
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
3x Thoughtseize
1x Collective Brutality
3x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Abrupt Decay
2x Spellskite
2x Surgical Extraction
There is a thread about "Jund Alesha" here - http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/585701-alesha-reanimator
I might as well use Eternal Witness for this purpose.
Fatal Push can indeed be a problem as only L.Troll with regeneration mana up can survive it, and it kills an Inkmoth as well.
But I have some discard spells that can hopefully help with that and "Revolt" won't always be available to kill P.Crusader.