I think Pestermite is OK as a budget card, but the 3 drop slot really should be VClique, Scion if heavy on Fae, or Snap + 1 mana instant. I run spell snare and vapor snag in my list. Spell piece is an option too.
Fair enough. I don't run Pestermite due to budget but because I think it warrants a slot. I tend not to cast Scion on T3 as it requires either a more developed board state or something worth protecting. VC definitely is the card for T3, but even if I have it and Pestermite in my hand I'm happy to cast VC T3, then T4 Pestermite, untap one of my lands and keep up mana for Leak, Quickling, SSS or Remand. I love the Looter Scooter but it just seems more vulnerable due to its set up requirements. I am toying with putting some Scooters in my sideboard for when I need to play the aggro role however. Snapcaster doesn't do enough in my build due to a lack of good spells and the fact it isn't a faerie. I suppose it's just different strokes for different folks, and I'm pleased that the deck doesn't have an established list.
Feels like we really can go aggro or control depending on the mstchup and state: true tempo deck, unlike some other "tempo decks" out there. It's also a blast to play with so many different lines at every point.
This is exactly why I love the deck. Being able to discern who's the beatdown is imperative to playing this deck well, and it really is capable of playing both when required. I like the way you can change gears in a game depending on the game state and transition from control to aggro or vice versa. You can turn the corner really quickly and without your opponent having much chance to respond thanks to the deck playing basically at instant speed. I just wish Merfolk wasn't a thing
I think we definitely need a control magic type spell in the SB somewhere. We have three options:
Sower of Temptation
+ It's a creature, can get in and do damage.
+ It's a faerie, pumping up MClique, SSS, and great synergy with Scion.
- It's a creature, dies to all relevant removal, but not Abrupt Decay.
- Not instant speed.
Vedalken Shackles
+ Repeatable, reusable control magic.
+ Instant speed-ish.
+ Artifact, meaning they will need multiple kinds of removal.
+ We are mono blue, so loaded with islands.
+ Durdle with Quickling. Janktown.
- Turns on multiple artifact removal spells if run with swords, or copter.
- Cost a lot of mana.
- Dies to AD.
What do you think is the best option here? They all clearly have their pros/cons. I'm currently testing Sower, but I think Sower might be better in a build with Scion (which I do not run). Shackles is good, but I don't want to turn on all of their artifact hate since I also run copter. That leaves threads, but the 2 cmc limitation is really scary for me because Siege Rhino.
If you play A.Vial Sower is very good, otherwise it is rather slow and expensive to cast (without protection or counters backup). Shackles seems very slow and more of card for a dedicated durdly control deck. Threads seems like the best option imho.
Match 1, Grixis Shadow, 0-2
- The first game I should have played more conservatively (holding back more blockers than I did). The second game was tougher, my only 'removal' spell (Vapor Snap) was discarded by Thoughtseize. In hindsight I think my deck should stand a decent chance at beating the Grixis Shadow deck: lote of tricky instant speed stuff going on, he/she can't go too low in life total, enough small stuff to throw in front of a Shadow.
[sideboarded in: 2 Dispel, 1 Echoing Truth, sideboarded out: 3 Remand]
Match 2, Grixis Control, 2-0
- Both games were extremly tough. I never got him below 10 life in both games and he had control almost all of the time, I didn't get to squeeze in a threat and protect it. The second game I was reliant on manlands for a while; when they got killed I got screwed on land at the same time.
[sideboarded in: 2 Dispel, sideboarded out: 2 Vapor Snag]
Match 3, Mardu Tokens, 2-0
- Both games went pretty well, partly by him getting mana screwed in the first game and mana flooded in the second. Still he got some annoying stuff down, like a Young Pyromancer that produced 6 tokens (first game; problem solved by racing and producing bigger blockers via Mistbind Clique of buff by Scion) or a Spectral Procession + Intangible Virtue(second game; problem solved by double Vapor Snag).
[sideboarded in: 1 Echoing Truth, 2 Dispel, sideboarded out: 3 Remand?]
Match 4, Eldrazi Tron, 2-1
- First game I managed to tempo him out before he found extra land beyong his fourth mana (screw). Second game was tough, he got to put early pressure on with Eldrazi Temple and multiple Matter Reshapers and Thought-Knot Seer, wasn't able to gain a favorable position. Third game I was able to counter his important stuff and he was left with a lot of lands (litle flooded) and Expedition Maps and little business spells (Vendilion Clique helped give me the info), Ratchet Bomb didn't help him enough.
[sideboarded in: 3 Spreading Seas, 1 Ceremonious Rejection, 2 Dismember, sideboarded out: 3 Spell Snare, 2 Vapor Snag, 1 ???]
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As I wrote earlier, I haven't been playing a lot of Modern lately, so some decks/strategies/cards I played against were new/altered. For example: the addition of Fatal Push to the format. A good card, also against us.. Gets me thinking about adding 2-3Spell Pierce to the main deck, probably instead of X Mana Leak/Remand/Spell Snare.
It's been interesting to read some of the stuff that has been posted here in this thread. A few things I want to indirectly respond to:
(1) the addition of Smuggler's Copter. Seemed interesting at first. But I agree with an earlier post that made a strong argument against this card: not instant speed, not a faerie, dependent on another creature (risk of tempo loss), you don't want to spend your second turn on it, etc.
(2) I like FlabcasterMage's techy use of Pendelhaven and Minamo; do you still use these two cards?
(3) Like some other people, I have been pondering over Snapcaster Mage for a while. Great card, but possibly of limited use for the deck: not as much spells as in other decks and not that awesome spells either (like Lightning Bolt). I think it's wise to skip it.
(4) Adding blue all-stars like Cryptic Command and Ancestral Visions. Sure, the deck could benefit of some extra card draw, in addition to the conditional ones in Remand and Faerie Miscreant, but I have doubts about Ancestral Visions: late game it's nearly dead and what if (a) you are on the play and you have it in your opening hand together with Faerie Miscreant? or (b) you are on the draw and have it in your hand together with Spell Snare? Cryptic is too slow for the deck, I'd rather play Mistbind Clique.
(5) Ninja's. I've read mixed reports on the use of these. Firstly, I would only consider Ninja of the Deep Hours, but even that card I have my doubts about. It's negative tempo: would I play this AND Quickling in one deck? Also, it will probably only connect once, after which it's a dead card, for the opponent's board will by gumming up (we will be wanting to fly over it).
(6) Can people elaborate on their experience with Unsubstantiate? I've seen some people mention it in their lists. It's flexibility draws me to it.
[quote]This is exactly why I love the deck. Being able to discern who's the beatdown is imperative to playing this deck well, and it really is capable of playing both when required. I like the way you can change gears in a game depending on the game state and transition from control to aggro or vice versa. You can turn the corner really quickly and without your opponent having much chance to respond thanks to the deck playing basically at instant speed. I just wish Merfolk wasn't a thing
Just wanted to say that I totally agree! Knowing when to switch gears is hard but can be rewarding. It's one of the more interesting features of playing this deck.
I agree on dropping spell snare for other things; it's most useful against control decks when you get into a counter war, but it misses important things like Death's Shadow. We have multiple cheap counters/bounces already and I run two dispels in the sideboard for the control matchup.
Unsubstantiate is most useful against decks running uncounterables like Supreme Verdict or that drop big creatures. It's a worse than Echoing Truth, Vapor Snag, and Remand, but can substitute for all three in a pinch, which is why I 1 mainboard and 1 sideboard.
I'm still running Smuggler's Copter; the looting it provides is nice to keep getting action if the game goes long, and is been a good way to gain additional leverage from spellstutter sprites, faerie miscreats, and scions. Crewing also doesn't target, so it doesn't nonbo with Scions. You can't view it as a 2-drop, though - in this deck it's a 4-drop to up the pressure, find more gas in longer games, and not have the blowout risk that mistbind does.
I haven't tried the utility lands yet (except for Pendelhaven, which is great). The ability to run them is a major advantage to being mono-colored, though, so I think it's the right thing to do unless we're running Vedalken Shackles or perhaps Engulf the Shore. I wish Cavern of Souls wasn't so expensive, or I would run it, too.
Just wanted to say that I totally agree! Knowing when to switch gears is hard but can be rewarding. It's one of the more interesting features of playing this deck.
I've been enjoying playing this deck over my Affinity deck as it feels like it's testing my abilities and making me a better player. I love it.
As for the techy lands, I quite like them. I've played through Blood Moon easily a number of times - in fact I'm happy when my opponent wastes a turn on it. Pendelhaven is definitely the standout, netting me some significant damage over the course of games. Even with Scion it's not dead as Scion itself is a 1/1. Minamo, School at Water's Edge has been useful a couple of times where my opponent has had a valuable creature like Bob and I've had Vendilion Clique. It's allowed me to attack and threaten a blocker on their turn to save me some damage. A savvy opponent should probably attack and hope that I block to turn off my clock, but people most often want to keep their good stuff. Oboro, Palace in the Clouds hasn't done much yet. One thing I can say is that these lands haven't cost me much in games either - Pendelhaven is the only one that opponents tend to try to remove on a regular basis.
I decided to look at the top 50 most used cards in Modern to determine how many of them can be countered by Spell Snare. The answer isn't actually very pretty. Of the top 50 cards, 12 have a cmc of two. However we don't care about Stony Silence or Rest in Peace, and Abrupt Decay can't be countered. That leaves us with 9 desirable targets in the top 50. I have to add the caveat that Chalice of the Void can be 2cmc, as can Walking Ballista. Chalice at X=1 is probably not necessary to counter most of the time (unless we really need that Vapor Snag), however Ballista at one is. Often when we see Ballista it's arbitrarily large and raining down fire on our heads anyway. Overall I would say that based on this Spell Snare is probably not worth a slot.
The question is what to replace it with. Spell Pierce is the obvious answer except it doesn't hit creatures, and unlike most other decks we have almost no permanent answers to creatures once they hit the board (especially since one of our issues with Snare was that it didn't hit Death's Shadow). Maybe have Dismember in the main and Pierce in the bard or vice-versa? I'll be very interested to see how Renier's experiment with Pierce goes.
What is the opinion on Pull From Tomorrow as a late game "finisher" ?
It is probably better in the more control oriented decks rather than the tempo ones.
Yeah I'm not super keen on it in this build, as it really fits better with the pure control plan to out CA the opponent late game. Also even in the late game we aren't running the land count to make it sing. You'd need to cast it for X=5 for it to net us more cards than Jace's Ingenuity, and 7 mana is rarely something I find I have at my disposal. If I was going to go for CA I'd probably try Ancestral Vision, or Jace's Ingenuity on a budget.
Pull From Tomorrow just doesn't do it in modern. It doesn't really do anything besides draw cards (unlike sphinx's revelation which essentially draws the same amount of cards, but instead gains you life and keeps you alive vs aggro), and for it to be a good card advantage engine you would need to cast it for 4-5+. Then you're competing against stuff like Mistbind Clique, or Cryptic Commmand. I think slower control or midrange lists would get a lot of benefit from running Wurmcoil Engine or even Batterskull as a top end. Even Snapcaster Mage works well for late game since Snap Leak is 4 mana, or Snap Cryptic is 6.
I think a card that expensive needs to have a larger direct impact on the board, or push us closer to winning. Baral's Expertise would work since it's an insane tempo swing and could help stabilize. Pull from Tomorrow is a bit of a "win-more" card. And if we're going that route, may as well go "classic control" instead of Faeries. But that's just my opinion.
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Cards I would consider playing maindeck. Vedalken Shackles, Psychic Barrier, runesnag, negate, Jace Architect of Thought, Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
25 land base cards I would try. Notorious Throng as 1 of if im playing enough Rogues, 4 cryptic command plus 3 time warp. 4 of Faerie Conclave.
other idea: Aetherize, Aetherspouts, Gravitational Shift, Threads of Disloyalty, Tidebindermage, Ratchet bomb, Exhaustion.
24 LANDS
2 Faerie Conclave
16 island
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Mutavault
16 CREATURES
4 Mistbind Clique
3 Scion of Oona
2 Spellskite
4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Vendilion Clique
18 INSTANTS and SORC.
4 Cryptic Command
2 Psychic Barrier
2 Dismember
2 Negate
4 Mana Leak
4 Spell Snare
2 OTHER SPELLS
2 Vedalken Shackles
SIDEBOARD
2 Dispel
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Spellskite
1 Tectonic Edge
2 Threads of Disloyalty
4 Filigree Familiar
Link from where this list came from http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=2611&d=216970&f=MO
I would try to fit some Ceremonious Rejection into the sideboard somewhere.
I don't think that expensive sorcery speed cards like: Jace, Tamiyo or Time Warp (why this ?) really fit this deck as it's main stregth is playing at instant speed.
Spellskite doesn't seem necessary for this deck as there are enough ways to protect the creatures, and it has less additional use (as a maindeck card) if Infect/Bogles isn't a common matchup.
Not sure how relevant this is to the current thread, but even though it's in a different format, I thought I would post about my favorable results with Favorable Winds in this deck.
My local game store has been rocking a new format lately, and I adapted mono-blue faeries list to the format where it has done remarkably well. It's a mix between vintage and pauper, entitled "Cheapo Supremo" where we use the Vintage ban list, but the entire deck may not cost more than $25.
Anyways, I was initially extremely skeptical about Favorable Winds, but after playing a few months with the card, holy cats, that card is a house. I still think Scion of Oona is likely better if one doesn't have budget restrictions, but I must admit that Favorable Winds is completely worth the slot and really takes this deck over the top in terms of making it an aggro/beatdown tempo deck. The two mana vs. 3 mana is extremely relevant, and it being an enchantment makes it much more resilient. Even after a board wipe, having 2 or 3 of the enchantment out on the field means that any top-decked 1-1 still represents a very real threat / clock.
That card by itself really shifts the deck into feeling like a very aggro deck, and it gives the deck the feeling that faeries are really just goblins with wings.
Anyways, I know it doesn't have a ton of relevance to this thread, but still thought people might be interested in seeing how faeries are doing in other formats, and really offer a lot of value for the money.
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Running the VCliques and Smuggler's Copters beefs the deck up a lots. VCliques hit hard and let you know if it's clear to cast (and potentially chain) Mistbind Cliques. The Copters are basically a sword for the faeries that doesn't nonbo with the Scions and finds you more gas.
It's important to remember that the Quicklings aren't generally turn 2 plays; that's why there are only two in the deck; I wouldn't ever run more than three. It's better to think of a Quickling as a vapor snag with a 2/2 body stapled to it. You generally use it as a snag with an upside, and only cast it for the body if the opponent is tapped out.
Similarly, the copter is generally a turn 4 or later play so that you keep up a counter/remand to keep control of tempo. Tapping out on turn 2 to cast a copter is rarely a good idea in this deck.
A 23rd land is quite handy when running copters as it smooths the mana curve a bit early and can be discarded to a copter late.
I run the two spell snares mainboard in case I'm on the draw in the first game; they generally come out when I'm on the play. I could see taking them out for more mana leaks, but the deck doesn't run as well when on draw, so they're basically a way to catch up on tempo early when on the draw.
Unsubstantiate is very useful fifth remand or vapor snag, and because it's not technically a counter, it can handle things that are uncounterable. It's not great by itself, but it makes a good flex card as a one-of.
If I ever get a pair of Cavern of Souls, I'll probably drop the Faerie Conclaves for them. Conclaves are a bit too slow; you rarely want to pay the cost to chip in with them, and it's hard to have enough mana up to use them to save a Mistbind. Having to find a way to keep tempo an extra turn can be a real problem.
For the sideboard, I did away with the dispels; against control decks, the spell snares and unsubstantiates are more useful to fizzle spells and handle things like Supreme Verdict.
Engulf the Shore has been quite handy at times to rebuy faeries and ETB effects, or to respond to a wrath or token combo I don't have a way to counter.
Admittedly this list isn't super relevant to the thread, but I am interested in the four copies of Annul in the sideboard. Why no Dispel?
You're right -- it's a deep question that doesn't directly pertain to the Modern format, but I'll do my best to bring it back around and talk about aspects of the deck that are important for Modern as well as Budget Vintage.
It's a very meta-dependent decision. I used to play with Dispel, but that was replaced by Spell Pierce when it got reprinted in Modern Masters (which dropped the price). It's a far better card in most situations. My build is an aggro/tempo build, not a hard-lock/finisher-based build with something like Mistbind Clique. There is no single piece of this deck that we care about protecting, and we just want to outpace them.
As is true for all Faerie decks (whether Vintage or Modern), Faeries tends to "run" on even numbers of mana cost. Most of our countermagic is 2 CMC. Most of our "development" in the deck is 2 CMC (Ninja of the Deep Hours, Favorable Winds). I feel like Faeries decks (across all formats) tends to have an odd "pacing" to it where it first really wants to get to 2 mana, then it really wants to get to 4 mana, etc. Every time I hit an even number of lands with Faeries, I feel like I breathe a sigh of relief with the deck, because that's an extra counterspell I can leave up, or I can now safely deploy a Ninja while keeping up one layer of counter protection.
As such, 1 CMC spells are really valuable for breaking that up, and giving us power and flexibility to use up those odd numbers of mana.
But all of that still applies to Dispel. It's a powerful 1 CMC counter -- why don't I run it?
And that is purely a meta decision. I've found that most of the unfair decks in the format are built around some sort of artifact or enchantment, and it really helps to have a 1 CMC counterspell against them. And again, this is purely a meta-based decision. Animate Dead is a stupid-good card, Oath of Druids is ridiculously difficult to deal with, Shuko is absolutely nuts in Cephalid Breakfast, Fecundity Storm is a thing, Noetic Scales repeatedly bouncing Gary in a hand-destruction deck, and assorted other strong finishers / lockers like Stasis, Demonic Rising, Lost in the Woods, etc. Bringing in Dispel against these decks wouldn't help me, since most of those decks don't run any Instants to speak of. However, last time I did play against a really busted toolbox deck built around Mystical Teachings, and that was a very tough match. I might need to change up my sideboard to add in more Dispel if that deck sticks around.
tldr; I run Spell Pierce over Dispel, and I need Annul to deal with all of the unfair decks. Specifically I needed a way to counter a turn-2 Oath of Druids.
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Yeah that all makes sense. In modern I find Dispel is solid not so much to protect your stuff, but to stop some key cards in the format such as Collected Company, Chord of Calling, Ad Nauseam, and Cryptic Command which can beat you if they resolve. It is quite helpful for protecting yourself against Mistbind Clique blow outs and to slow down burn enough to get them in the long game. I am keen to try Spell Pierce as I like its utility against fast decks like Affinity but top decking them would feel pretty bad. I imagine that it comes down to the difference in the formats' metas which seems significant.
The only difference with the list I played before was: 3 Spell Snare were cut for 2 Spell Pierce and 1 Void Snare (should have been 1 Unsubstantiate, but I didn't have the card at the time).
Match-ups:
1. 2-1 versus Grixis Breach. First game I lost because I didn't know the deck I was playing against. Held up mana for Spellstutter Sprite for X=3 or X=4, but my opponent played Through the Breach for Emrakul. Should've kept 3 mana open and cast Vendilion Clique. Won the other two games, because I have counterspells (incl. Dispel out of the sideboard).
2. 2-1 versus Mardu Aristocrats. Held key parts of his deck at bay and managed to out-tempo him most of the time.
3. 2-1 versus Green Stompy. Tough match, really had to fight to stay alive. Important to know 'who is the beatdown' (it wasn't me), so played the control game. Dismembers out of the sideboard worked well.
4. 1-1 versus UWR Control (non-intentional ID). So much removal, so hard to stick a threat around. Loved the Spellstutter Sprites in this match-up (esp. against Ancestral Visions). Dispels from the sideboard, also Spreading Seas (against 4/4 manland), out went the Vapor Snags). Didn't have enough time for the third game, but was favored to win, opponent also said as much.
5. Intentional ID.
Top 8
1. 2-1 versus GW Company. First game I lost because of mana dorks + creature overload + Gavony Township, went too fast. The other two games he had slower starts that I could exploit. The third game was tight nonetheless, had to think really hard with sequencing my spells, to avoid him assembling a combo of Vizier + Druid + Recruiter.
2. 1-2 versus UR Gifts Storm. I had no counters in the first game, enough counters in the second game (+ pressure obviously), and too little counters and too little mana in the third game. You have to be able to counter two spells in a row against the deck in order to survive.
Conclusion: still satisfied with the deck and its performance! Something to share: I find that mulliganing with this deck can be quite rewarding, especially in the second or third game. If you're playing against a creature-heavy deck, you'll want removal in your opener, if you're up against combo, you'll want more counterspells: don't be affraid of mulliganing your hand, even if it has a good land/non-land ratio!
Last time you said you were going to try Spell Pierce over Spell Snare. How did the Pierces perform?
Against the UR Gifts Storm did you side in Relic of Progenitus? I am as yet to tussle with the deck but part of my plan is to side out creature control for counters and Relic in order to stop Past in Flames shenanigans. What do you think?
Glad to see the deck going well. I reckon you should chuck in a Pendelhaven though, it's great
Last time you said you were going to try Spell Pierce over Spell Snare. How did the Pierces perform?
I was quite pleased with them. Against combo and control, I wouldn't want to miss them. Against creature/aggro decks they have use in protecting your creatures from removal. I haven't encountered a situation yet in which I would rather have had Spell Snare. For now, I am sticking with Spell Pierce, and will continue to monitor their use.
Against the UR Gifts Storm did you side in Relic of Progenitus? I am as yet to tussle with the deck but part of my plan is to side out creature control for counters and Relic in order to stop Past in Flames shenanigans. What do you think?
Yes, I did side in the Relics. In the third game I had a Relic, but was tight on mana, so I couldn't counter a spell AND keep mana open for its second ability.
Glad to see the deck going well. I reckon you should chuck in a Pendelhaven though, it's great
The new leaked Ixalan card Enchanting Melody seems like a perfect fit for this deck, like an ugraded flexible Threads of Disloyalty (that doesn't fall off).
I've been loving the spell pierces, too; I run 2 pierce/2 leak main deck with the other 2 leak in the side board. They're really helpful on the draw to start turning the game toward our tempo plan, they're great against storm and all the discard spells running around, and it let me remove negate from the sideboard for two Engulf the Shores. Engulf is actually pretty good as a way to snag all of our faeries against a sweeper or to handle opponents that go wide, particularly with a mana base that's basically 4 mutavaults, 2 caverns, a pendelhaven, and 16 islands.
What's people's thoughts on Moonring Island? Is occasionally checking the top of their deck (e.g. before a V-Clique) worth making one of the sixteen islands come in tapped in a mono-U deck like this? Is that more or less useful than, say, a Faerie Conclave, which doesn't count as an island?
I've seen some debate on Ninja of the Deep Hours. I tend to like Quickling better, because it is a fairy, and can be buffed by Scion or championed by Mistbind, or help Spellstutter. The deck cares about faries. That being said, I like having more than just Remand and Miscreant for card draw. So, I'm running 2 Quickling/1 Ninja split. Is that the right way to go with this card?
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Fair enough. I don't run Pestermite due to budget but because I think it warrants a slot. I tend not to cast Scion on T3 as it requires either a more developed board state or something worth protecting. VC definitely is the card for T3, but even if I have it and Pestermite in my hand I'm happy to cast VC T3, then T4 Pestermite, untap one of my lands and keep up mana for Leak, Quickling, SSS or Remand. I love the Looter Scooter but it just seems more vulnerable due to its set up requirements. I am toying with putting some Scooters in my sideboard for when I need to play the aggro role however. Snapcaster doesn't do enough in my build due to a lack of good spells and the fact it isn't a faerie. I suppose it's just different strokes for different folks, and I'm pleased that the deck doesn't have an established list.
This is exactly why I love the deck. Being able to discern who's the beatdown is imperative to playing this deck well, and it really is capable of playing both when required. I like the way you can change gears in a game depending on the game state and transition from control to aggro or vice versa. You can turn the corner really quickly and without your opponent having much chance to respond thanks to the deck playing basically at instant speed. I just wish Merfolk wasn't a thing
Sower of Temptation
+ It's a creature, can get in and do damage.
+ It's a faerie, pumping up MClique, SSS, and great synergy with Scion.
- It's a creature, dies to all relevant removal, but not Abrupt Decay.
- Not instant speed.
Vedalken Shackles
+ Repeatable, reusable control magic.
+ Instant speed-ish.
+ Artifact, meaning they will need multiple kinds of removal.
+ We are mono blue, so loaded with islands.
+ Durdle with Quickling. Janktown.
- Turns on multiple artifact removal spells if run with swords, or copter.
- Cost a lot of mana.
- Dies to AD.
Threads of Disloyalty
+ Cheapest of the bunch
+ Hits important cards like Tarmogoyf, Dark Confidant, Death's Shadow.
+ Enchantment is hard to remove for some decks.
- Only grabs CMC 2 or less.
- Not instant speed.
- Dies to AD.
What do you think is the best option here? They all clearly have their pros/cons. I'm currently testing Sower, but I think Sower might be better in a build with Scion (which I do not run). Shackles is good, but I don't want to turn on all of their artifact hate since I also run copter. That leaves threads, but the 2 cmc limitation is really scary for me because Siege Rhino.
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http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/65652
Playing: Modern UB Fae
Shackles seems very slow and more of card for a dedicated durdly control deck.
Threads seems like the best option imho.
I haven't been playing much Modern lately, but when I did, I played this archetype. This weekend I entered a small tourney with it. The deck I played is relatively unchanged since my first post in this thread (http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/726603-mono-blue-faeries-aggro-tempo?comment=8). The deck I played:
1 Faerie Impostor
4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Quickling
3 Pestermite
4 Scion of Oona
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Mistbind Clique
3 Spell Snare
3 Remand
3 Mana Leak
2 Faerie Conclave
4 Mutavault
16 Island
3 Spreading Seas
2 Dismember
2 Spellskite
2 Hurkyll's Recall
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Echoing Truth
Match 1, Grixis Shadow, 0-2
- The first game I should have played more conservatively (holding back more blockers than I did). The second game was tougher, my only 'removal' spell (Vapor Snap) was discarded by Thoughtseize. In hindsight I think my deck should stand a decent chance at beating the Grixis Shadow deck: lote of tricky instant speed stuff going on, he/she can't go too low in life total, enough small stuff to throw in front of a Shadow.
[sideboarded in: 2 Dispel, 1 Echoing Truth, sideboarded out: 3 Remand]
Match 2, Grixis Control, 2-0
- Both games were extremly tough. I never got him below 10 life in both games and he had control almost all of the time, I didn't get to squeeze in a threat and protect it. The second game I was reliant on manlands for a while; when they got killed I got screwed on land at the same time.
[sideboarded in: 2 Dispel, sideboarded out: 2 Vapor Snag]
Match 3, Mardu Tokens, 2-0
- Both games went pretty well, partly by him getting mana screwed in the first game and mana flooded in the second. Still he got some annoying stuff down, like a Young Pyromancer that produced 6 tokens (first game; problem solved by racing and producing bigger blockers via Mistbind Clique of buff by Scion) or a Spectral Procession + Intangible Virtue(second game; problem solved by double Vapor Snag).
[sideboarded in: 1 Echoing Truth, 2 Dispel, sideboarded out: 3 Remand?]
Match 4, Eldrazi Tron, 2-1
- First game I managed to tempo him out before he found extra land beyong his fourth mana (screw). Second game was tough, he got to put early pressure on with Eldrazi Temple and multiple Matter Reshapers and Thought-Knot Seer, wasn't able to gain a favorable position. Third game I was able to counter his important stuff and he was left with a lot of lands (litle flooded) and Expedition Maps and little business spells (Vendilion Clique helped give me the info), Ratchet Bomb didn't help him enough.
[sideboarded in: 3 Spreading Seas, 1 Ceremonious Rejection, 2 Dismember, sideboarded out: 3 Spell Snare, 2 Vapor Snag, 1 ???]
---------------------------------
As I wrote earlier, I haven't been playing a lot of Modern lately, so some decks/strategies/cards I played against were new/altered. For example: the addition of Fatal Push to the format. A good card, also against us.. Gets me thinking about adding 2-3Spell Pierce to the main deck, probably instead of X Mana Leak/Remand/Spell Snare.
It's been interesting to read some of the stuff that has been posted here in this thread. A few things I want to indirectly respond to:
(1) the addition of Smuggler's Copter. Seemed interesting at first. But I agree with an earlier post that made a strong argument against this card: not instant speed, not a faerie, dependent on another creature (risk of tempo loss), you don't want to spend your second turn on it, etc.
(2) I like FlabcasterMage's techy use of Pendelhaven and Minamo; do you still use these two cards?
(3) Like some other people, I have been pondering over Snapcaster Mage for a while. Great card, but possibly of limited use for the deck: not as much spells as in other decks and not that awesome spells either (like Lightning Bolt). I think it's wise to skip it.
(4) Adding blue all-stars like Cryptic Command and Ancestral Visions. Sure, the deck could benefit of some extra card draw, in addition to the conditional ones in Remand and Faerie Miscreant, but I have doubts about Ancestral Visions: late game it's nearly dead and what if (a) you are on the play and you have it in your opening hand together with Faerie Miscreant? or (b) you are on the draw and have it in your hand together with Spell Snare? Cryptic is too slow for the deck, I'd rather play Mistbind Clique.
(5) Ninja's. I've read mixed reports on the use of these. Firstly, I would only consider Ninja of the Deep Hours, but even that card I have my doubts about. It's negative tempo: would I play this AND Quickling in one deck? Also, it will probably only connect once, after which it's a dead card, for the opponent's board will by gumming up (we will be wanting to fly over it).
(6) Can people elaborate on their experience with Unsubstantiate? I've seen some people mention it in their lists. It's flexibility draws me to it.
EDIT:
Just wanted to say that I totally agree! Knowing when to switch gears is hard but can be rewarding. It's one of the more interesting features of playing this deck.
Also, I read another thread on Spell Snare: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/777328-spell-snare It does confirm my suspicion that the stuff we want to counter isn't necessarily at 2 mana anymore (but probably at 1). Will be testing with Spell Pierces instead.
I've been enjoying playing this deck over my Affinity deck as it feels like it's testing my abilities and making me a better player. I love it.
As for the techy lands, I quite like them. I've played through Blood Moon easily a number of times - in fact I'm happy when my opponent wastes a turn on it. Pendelhaven is definitely the standout, netting me some significant damage over the course of games. Even with Scion it's not dead as Scion itself is a 1/1. Minamo, School at Water's Edge has been useful a couple of times where my opponent has had a valuable creature like Bob and I've had Vendilion Clique. It's allowed me to attack and threaten a blocker on their turn to save me some damage. A savvy opponent should probably attack and hope that I block to turn off my clock, but people most often want to keep their good stuff. Oboro, Palace in the Clouds hasn't done much yet. One thing I can say is that these lands haven't cost me much in games either - Pendelhaven is the only one that opponents tend to try to remove on a regular basis.
I decided to look at the top 50 most used cards in Modern to determine how many of them can be countered by Spell Snare. The answer isn't actually very pretty. Of the top 50 cards, 12 have a cmc of two. However we don't care about Stony Silence or Rest in Peace, and Abrupt Decay can't be countered. That leaves us with 9 desirable targets in the top 50. I have to add the caveat that Chalice of the Void can be 2cmc, as can Walking Ballista. Chalice at X=1 is probably not necessary to counter most of the time (unless we really need that Vapor Snag), however Ballista at one is. Often when we see Ballista it's arbitrarily large and raining down fire on our heads anyway. Overall I would say that based on this Spell Snare is probably not worth a slot.
The question is what to replace it with. Spell Pierce is the obvious answer except it doesn't hit creatures, and unlike most other decks we have almost no permanent answers to creatures once they hit the board (especially since one of our issues with Snare was that it didn't hit Death's Shadow). Maybe have Dismember in the main and Pierce in the bard or vice-versa? I'll be very interested to see how Renier's experiment with Pierce goes.
It is probably better in the more control oriented decks rather than the tempo ones.
I think a card that expensive needs to have a larger direct impact on the board, or push us closer to winning. Baral's Expertise would work since it's an insane tempo swing and could help stabilize. Pull from Tomorrow is a bit of a "win-more" card. And if we're going that route, may as well go "classic control" instead of Faeries. But that's just my opinion.
Requesting drafts and feedback, both good and bad.
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/65652
Playing: Modern UB Fae
25 land base cards I would try. Notorious Throng as 1 of if im playing enough Rogues, 4 cryptic command plus 3 time warp. 4 of Faerie Conclave.
other idea: Aetherize, Aetherspouts, Gravitational Shift, Threads of Disloyalty, Tidebindermage, Ratchet bomb, Exhaustion.
24 LANDS
2 Faerie Conclave
16 island
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Mutavault
16 CREATURES
4 Mistbind Clique
3 Scion of Oona
2 Spellskite
4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Vendilion Clique
18 INSTANTS and SORC.
4 Cryptic Command
2 Psychic Barrier
2 Dismember
2 Negate
4 Mana Leak
4 Spell Snare
2 OTHER SPELLS
2 Vedalken Shackles
SIDEBOARD
2 Dispel
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Spellskite
1 Tectonic Edge
2 Threads of Disloyalty
4 Filigree Familiar
Link from where this list came from
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=2611&d=216970&f=MO
I would try to fit some Ceremonious Rejection into the sideboard somewhere.
Vedalken Shackles has been mentioned as possible option but it is very slow and there are enough Abrupt Decay/Kolaghan's Command in the meta that the card doesn't seem particulary appealing right now (even less than Threads of Disloyalty).
Psychic Barrier (like Nullify) is a rather narrow counter and I prefer Vapor Snag + Dismember as the answers to creatures.
Spellskite doesn't seem necessary for this deck as there are enough ways to protect the creatures, and it has less additional use (as a maindeck card) if Infect/Bogles isn't a common matchup.
My local game store has been rocking a new format lately, and I adapted mono-blue faeries list to the format where it has done remarkably well. It's a mix between vintage and pauper, entitled "Cheapo Supremo" where we use the Vintage ban list, but the entire deck may not cost more than $25.
Anyways, I was initially extremely skeptical about Favorable Winds, but after playing a few months with the card, holy cats, that card is a house. I still think Scion of Oona is likely better if one doesn't have budget restrictions, but I must admit that Favorable Winds is completely worth the slot and really takes this deck over the top in terms of making it an aggro/beatdown tempo deck. The two mana vs. 3 mana is extremely relevant, and it being an enchantment makes it much more resilient. Even after a board wipe, having 2 or 3 of the enchantment out on the field means that any top-decked 1-1 still represents a very real threat / clock.
That card by itself really shifts the deck into feeling like a very aggro deck, and it gives the deck the feeling that faeries are really just goblins with wings.
$25 Vintage Mono-Blue Faeries
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
2 Quickling
4 Faerie Miscreant
4 Zephyr Sprite
4 Cloud of Faeries
Utility
4 Favorable Winds
2 Curfew
2 Echoing Truth
3 Familiar's Ruse
4 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce
Lands
1 Faerie Conclave
20 Island
3 Faerie Macabre
4 Annul
2 Echoing Truth
3 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Chill
Anyways, I know it doesn't have a ton of relevance to this thread, but still thought people might be interested in seeing how faeries are doing in other formats, and really offer a lot of value for the money.
2 Faerie Conclave
16 Island
4 Mutavault
1 Pendelhaven
Artifacts
2 Smuggler's Copter
Instants
2 Mana Leak
4 Remand
2 Spell Snare
1 Unsubstantiate
4 Vapor Snag
4 Faerie Miscreant
3 Mistbind Clique
2 Pestermite
2 Quickling
4 Scion of Oona
4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Vendilion Clique
1 Echoing Truth
1 Engulf the Shore
2 Mana Leak
2 Negate
1 Pithing Needle
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Spellskite
3 Spreading Seas
1 Unsubstantiate
Thoughts:
Admittedly this list isn't super relevant to the thread, but I am interested in the four copies of Annul in the sideboard. Why no Dispel?
You're right -- it's a deep question that doesn't directly pertain to the Modern format, but I'll do my best to bring it back around and talk about aspects of the deck that are important for Modern as well as Budget Vintage.
It's a very meta-dependent decision. I used to play with Dispel, but that was replaced by Spell Pierce when it got reprinted in Modern Masters (which dropped the price). It's a far better card in most situations. My build is an aggro/tempo build, not a hard-lock/finisher-based build with something like Mistbind Clique. There is no single piece of this deck that we care about protecting, and we just want to outpace them.
As is true for all Faerie decks (whether Vintage or Modern), Faeries tends to "run" on even numbers of mana cost. Most of our countermagic is 2 CMC. Most of our "development" in the deck is 2 CMC (Ninja of the Deep Hours, Favorable Winds). I feel like Faeries decks (across all formats) tends to have an odd "pacing" to it where it first really wants to get to 2 mana, then it really wants to get to 4 mana, etc. Every time I hit an even number of lands with Faeries, I feel like I breathe a sigh of relief with the deck, because that's an extra counterspell I can leave up, or I can now safely deploy a Ninja while keeping up one layer of counter protection.
As such, 1 CMC spells are really valuable for breaking that up, and giving us power and flexibility to use up those odd numbers of mana.
But all of that still applies to Dispel. It's a powerful 1 CMC counter -- why don't I run it?
And that is purely a meta decision. I've found that most of the unfair decks in the format are built around some sort of artifact or enchantment, and it really helps to have a 1 CMC counterspell against them. And again, this is purely a meta-based decision. Animate Dead is a stupid-good card, Oath of Druids is ridiculously difficult to deal with, Shuko is absolutely nuts in Cephalid Breakfast, Fecundity Storm is a thing, Noetic Scales repeatedly bouncing Gary in a hand-destruction deck, and assorted other strong finishers / lockers like Stasis, Demonic Rising, Lost in the Woods, etc. Bringing in Dispel against these decks wouldn't help me, since most of those decks don't run any Instants to speak of. However, last time I did play against a really busted toolbox deck built around Mystical Teachings, and that was a very tough match. I might need to change up my sideboard to add in more Dispel if that deck sticks around.
tldr; I run Spell Pierce over Dispel, and I need Annul to deal with all of the unfair decks. Specifically I needed a way to counter a turn-2 Oath of Druids.
1 Faerie Impostor
4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Quickling
3 Pestermite
4 Scion of Oona
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Mistbind Clique
2 Spell Pierce
1 Void Snare
3 Remand
3 Mana Leak
2 Faerie Conclave
4 Mutavault
16 Island
3 Spreading Seas
2 Dispel
2 Dismember
2 Spellskite
2 Hurkyll's Recall
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Echoing Truth
The only difference with the list I played before was: 3 Spell Snare were cut for 2 Spell Pierce and 1 Void Snare (should have been 1 Unsubstantiate, but I didn't have the card at the time).
Match-ups:
1. 2-1 versus Grixis Breach. First game I lost because I didn't know the deck I was playing against. Held up mana for Spellstutter Sprite for X=3 or X=4, but my opponent played Through the Breach for Emrakul. Should've kept 3 mana open and cast Vendilion Clique. Won the other two games, because I have counterspells (incl. Dispel out of the sideboard).
2. 2-1 versus Mardu Aristocrats. Held key parts of his deck at bay and managed to out-tempo him most of the time.
3. 2-1 versus Green Stompy. Tough match, really had to fight to stay alive. Important to know 'who is the beatdown' (it wasn't me), so played the control game. Dismembers out of the sideboard worked well.
4. 1-1 versus UWR Control (non-intentional ID). So much removal, so hard to stick a threat around. Loved the Spellstutter Sprites in this match-up (esp. against Ancestral Visions). Dispels from the sideboard, also Spreading Seas (against 4/4 manland), out went the Vapor Snags). Didn't have enough time for the third game, but was favored to win, opponent also said as much.
5. Intentional ID.
Top 8
1. 2-1 versus GW Company. First game I lost because of mana dorks + creature overload + Gavony Township, went too fast. The other two games he had slower starts that I could exploit. The third game was tight nonetheless, had to think really hard with sequencing my spells, to avoid him assembling a combo of Vizier + Druid + Recruiter.
2. 1-2 versus UR Gifts Storm. I had no counters in the first game, enough counters in the second game (+ pressure obviously), and too little counters and too little mana in the third game. You have to be able to counter two spells in a row against the deck in order to survive.
Conclusion: still satisfied with the deck and its performance! Something to share: I find that mulliganing with this deck can be quite rewarding, especially in the second or third game. If you're playing against a creature-heavy deck, you'll want removal in your opener, if you're up against combo, you'll want more counterspells: don't be affraid of mulliganing your hand, even if it has a good land/non-land ratio!
Last time you said you were going to try Spell Pierce over Spell Snare. How did the Pierces perform?
Against the UR Gifts Storm did you side in Relic of Progenitus? I am as yet to tussle with the deck but part of my plan is to side out creature control for counters and Relic in order to stop Past in Flames shenanigans. What do you think?
Glad to see the deck going well. I reckon you should chuck in a Pendelhaven though, it's great
I was quite pleased with them. Against combo and control, I wouldn't want to miss them. Against creature/aggro decks they have use in protecting your creatures from removal. I haven't encountered a situation yet in which I would rather have had Spell Snare. For now, I am sticking with Spell Pierce, and will continue to monitor their use.
Yes, I did side in the Relics. In the third game I had a Relic, but was tight on mana, so I couldn't counter a spell AND keep mana open for its second ability.
I'm planning to buy and try it soon.
What's people's thoughts on Moonring Island? Is occasionally checking the top of their deck (e.g. before a V-Clique) worth making one of the sixteen islands come in tapped in a mono-U deck like this? Is that more or less useful than, say, a Faerie Conclave, which doesn't count as an island?
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