That is simply not true. You do have to build around it a bit, but for those that are using aether vial or a discard engine, haakon is a house.
That's a huge investment in what is ultimately a 3/3, that shocks you every time it dies. It's a waste of resources, why vial in Haakon when at three there's any lord, Messenger, or the new colossus.
Like I said above, Nameless Inversion can be reused with Chant and fuels Diregraf Colossus. As another minor upside it generally hoses enemy tribal strategies.
Compelling Deterrance is a lot more flexible than Vapor Snag, hitting all types of permanents, and isn't actually card disadvantage like Snag is. It's a test card however and discard might just take its place.
Skaab Ruinator kinda counters your relentless dead because you want zombies in the yard to return to the battlefield. I would use geralf's messenger over that any day. The rest looks solid.
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Modern: B 8Rack RX Goblins BG Elves (Attempting) UBW Mill G Stompy UB Tezzerator
Legacy: W Stax
Today's spoilers present a great new option in Prized Amalgam.
A 3/3 for three that comes back everytime a creature from your yard comes back (either by casting, or undying, or Relentless Dead). This might cause demand for Bloodghast.
It comes back trapped, but I'm a huge fan of anything that comes back without extra investment.
I don't know what slot yet, and there's still 100 cards to go.
Are you sure you meant Geralf's Messenger when you said messenger wasn't a good card? It shocks opponents every time it comes into play, and trades positively with bolt due to undying. It also has tripple black for Gray Marchant devotion. Messenger is the second most powerful card in the deck.
I think I'd agree that colussus is better, unless you are trying to rack up devotion. Then again, I'm trying to get grimgrin to work, so I'm not the guy people want to listen to.
Are you sure you meant Geralf's Messenger when you said messenger wasn't a good card? It shocks opponents every time it comes into play, and trades positively with bolt due to undying. It also has tripple black for Gray Marchant devotion. Messenger is the second most powerful card in the deck.
I think I'd agree that colussus is better, unless you are trying to rack up devotion. Then again, I'm trying to get grimgrin to work, so I'm not the guy people want to listen to.
If Grimgrin didn't require gravecrawler (now serviceable with Relentless Dead) to untap reliably he'd be worth it. He's competing with a cheaper 5/5 that tramples and kills things it's own way. (Obliterater) You can't compete with cheaper, more reliable spells, and Colossus isn't reliable.
So Forgotten Creation should be just that. It's a paltry 3/3, costs five, and it's ability only works if you're carrying a glut of cards. It's turn five, why do you have so many cards in hand to feed to this thing?
Another new zombie we can all agree is unplayable: Stitchwing Skaab. I think we can all agree that four mana or two cards isn't worth a 3/1 flier.
I dunno about that. It's a recursive, evasive zombie that has fairly easy re-cast preconditions. Plus, getting one back let's you rebuy all of your Gravecrawlers and Amalgams, but maybe I've just got too much dredge on my mind.
Another new zombie we can all agree is unplayable: Stitchwing Skaab. I think we can all agree that four mana or two cards isn't worth a 3/1 flier.
I dunno about that. It's a recursive, evasive zombie that has fairly easy re-cast preconditions. Plus, getting one back let's you rebuy all of your Gravecrawlers and Amalgams, but maybe I've just got too much dredge on my mind.
The circumstances though to make this line of play requires you play it for four. Then it needs to die. Then you have to draw either two dead cards or a pair of amalgams/gravecrawlers, and also not have been killed by turn six. That's low probability on top of wasted resources.
My two cents: I think if this is going to work, you'll probably want to be in two colors, splashing a third. The sacrifice also seems particularly potent with the spoil of prized amalgam in the new set. This leads me to believe that leaves play triggers (blood artistzulaport cutthroat) plus a solid sac engine could be rather obnoxious as a way of closing out games. The best engine we have is probably not mortarpod but blasting station. If we are going that route, I think we also want another easy play from the gy, such as bloodghast or blood soaked champion. You can set the sac engine up while applying pressure (due to the cheap, aggressive nature of the tribe) and then start dealing 2 damage per B or 1B as much as you want once you get going.
I don't know, I may try a list once SOI comes out.
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Sig by Dark Night Cavalier at Heroes of the Plane Studios!
Another new zombie we can all agree is unplayable: Stitchwing Skaab. I think we can all agree that four mana or two cards isn't worth a 3/1 flier.
I dunno about that. It's a recursive, evasive zombie that has fairly easy re-cast preconditions. Plus, getting one back let's you rebuy all of your Gravecrawlers and Amalgams, but maybe I've just got too much dredge on my mind.
The circumstances though to make this line of play requires you play it for four. Then it needs to die. Then you have to draw either two dead cards or a pair of amalgams/gravecrawlers, and also not have been killed by turn six. That's low probability on top of wasted resources.
You don't need to hard cast it but it requires a third color to get it into the graveyard along with maybe hedron crab. Green gives you life from the loam, lotleth troll, and grisly salvage. red gives you faithless looting.
Another new zombie we can all agree is unplayable: Stitchwing Skaab. I think we can all agree that four mana or two cards isn't worth a 3/1 flier.
I dunno about that. It's a recursive, evasive zombie that has fairly easy re-cast preconditions. Plus, getting one back let's you rebuy all of your Gravecrawlers and Amalgams, but maybe I've just got too much dredge on my mind.
The circumstances though to make this line of play requires you play it for four. Then it needs to die. Then you have to draw either two dead cards or a pair of amalgams/gravecrawlers, and also not have been killed by turn six. That's low probability on top of wasted resources.
You don't need to hard cast it but it requires a third color to get it into the graveyard along with maybe hedron crab. Green gives you life from the loam, lotleth troll, and grisly salvage. red gives you faithless looting.
I like the look of the list with Life From the Loam. What about Epiphany at the Drownyard? Splitting the pile 0/X could be hilarious. Also, gifts ungiven could be an interesting 2 of in the deck.
Three new cards from the front page: Ever After: Only your graveyard, costs six. Nope. From Under the Floorboards: Awesome flavor, but too expensive, even with madness. At X=1 you could have had Geralf's messenger instead of one token 2/2. At X=2, you could have had an untapped Obliterator. Rottenheart Ghoul: Save two mana and just play some rats. Or Black Cat, which is a zombie too.
Guys, sorry if what I am doing is wrong. I read I should post anything related to modern zombies here, so I'll try. Currently I own just a commander deck (mono-red goblins, based on Krenko), and I'm kinda trying to start on modern format.
I got this deck from a friend. I believe it's modern-legal, but as far as I read, i don't know if it is a good match. Would you give me some advice, please? (sorry if the way I build the post with the cards isn't the most correct one trying my best!)
Guys, sorry if what I am doing is wrong. I read I should post anything related to modern zombies here, so I'll try. Currently I own just a commander deck (mono-red goblins, based on Krenko), and I'm kinda trying to start on modern format.
I got this deck from a friend. I believe it's modern-legal, but as far as I read, i don't know if it is a good match. Would you give me some advice, please? (sorry if the way I build the post with the cards isn't the most correct one trying my best!)
Welcome to the Zombie party! My first thoughts here are to cut the white cards: Do you really need to be running a second color for just Tidehallow Sculler and Righteousness?
Black can give you better ways to attack the hand in Inquisition of Kozelik, Thoughtseize, and Duress. In place of Righteousness you could just run any other kill spell. Victim of the Night, Doom Blade, and Go for the Throat come to mind.
Next we have your goal. Based on what you have here it seems you want to put out a critical mass of lords (creatures that give all your other creatures +1/+1) which is fine, but you'll need stronger plays to make sure these lords can get the job done. Damnation is such a card to make sure you stay alive long enough to cast all your favorite zombies.
There's a few other questionable choices you're making here, such as Endless Ranks of Dead so maybe you should tell us how competitive you are? If you're just playing with friends a slower deck like this is fine, but if you plan to play competitively you'll need something faster. If you look at the first post of this thread you'll see there's a series of decklists including a lord-heavy build similar to what you're going for. See what those lists are doing differently and ask yourself why your choices are better. (if they're not, change them )
There's a few other questionable choices you're making here, such as Endless Ranks of Dead so maybe you should tell us how competitive you are? If you're just playing with friends a slower deck like this is fine, but if you plan to play competitively you'll need something faster. If you look at the first post of this thread you'll see there's a series of decklists including a lord-heavy build similar to what you're going for. See what those lists are doing differently and ask yourself why your choices are better. (if they're not, change them )
Hey friend! Thanks for your answer, I really appreciate this. Well, I must be honest I don't really understand the whole mechanics of the game. The only thing I know how to do (because of Krenko) is to produce tokens and attack. But I'd love to understand a different mechanic with zombies!
I've been looking for a competitive deck to play. I know this one might not win a continental competition, but I'd love to have chances on FNM, for example. If these changes are good ones, I'll give it a try! About the white part of the deck, I honestly have no idea why! I just got the deck the way it is, and it looked pretty interesting. Still didn't test yet. Also I've been looking to additions I could make to this collor mix (like, maybe Athreos, God of Passage?), but should I stop and look for other color bases?
I'd recommend you start out using just black. There's some good cards in other colors, but you don't want to shell out for the lands required to run them until you're sure that's the direction you want to go. Good zombies are known for having very color intensive costs, so you'll need lands that both tap for black and don't come into play tapped. Those are the shock-lands from Ravnica Godless Shrine, Watery Grave, Blood Crypt, and Overgrown Tomb. There's also those check lands, like Isolated Chapel, which you already have as well as Drowned Catacombs, Dragonskull Summit, and Woodland Cemetery. Also, all tribal decks should consider a Cavern of Souls.
But enough about lands, you didn't come here for real estate advice. Creatures have this nasty habit: They die. A lot. Zombies are good in this regard because having died once already, they're awfully resilient when it comes to dying a second time. You can see this already in Gravecrawler, and in Geralf's Messenger. This gets even better with the new mythic card comming out in two weeks, Relentless Dead. Basically, zombies don't care about dying because it's always short term. It means you can play a little fast and loose with your combat decisions because zombies can be very forgiving. Even the lords, Lord of the Undead and Cemetery Reaper know what to do with your buried zombies. Since creatures are great at dying, you might as well get full value out of each death with a card like Blood Artist, or if you prefer a 1/1 that loses half the appeal Zulaport Cutthroat. These guys just laugh as you attack with a suicidal Gravecrawler or Messenger which either are unblocked, and deal damage, or are blocked and die...which deals damage (Life loss, technically).
Lastly, there's the discard spells I mentioned in the last post, because who wants your oponent playing good stuff? And another 2/X for B so you don't have to rely on Gravecrawler for your opening move, Diregraf Ghoul. Some players prefer Festering Goblin.
So from where I am right now, it's a good idea to turn to a mono-black deck and make some changes, I got it. As far as I understood, it's a good idea to go for Blood Artist and Geralf's Messenger, as well wait for the new zombies.
About the lands and other stuff, for now I'm trying to make this deck cheap. Any alternatives for Æther Vial, Inquisition of Kozilek?
So from where I am right now, it's a good idea to turn to a mono-black deck and make some changes, I got it. As far as I understood, it's a good idea to go for Blood Artist and Geralf's Messenger, as well wait for the new zombies.
About the lands and other stuff, for now I'm trying to make this deck cheap. Any alternatives for Æther Vial, Inquisition of Kozilek?
There's no replacement for Vial, but you can get by with with Duress and some more kill spells for whatever you can't Duress.
OK! Full set has been spoiled. Only new card of any note is Liliana's Indignation. It costs XB and you mill yourself X, and an opponent loses life equal to any creatures you hit. I don't think it's playable, but it's the only new card of note.
Playable New Cards:
That's a huge investment in what is ultimately a 3/3, that shocks you every time it dies. It's a waste of resources, why vial in Haakon when at three there's any lord, Messenger, or the new colossus.
Like I said above, Nameless Inversion can be reused with Chant and fuels Diregraf Colossus. As another minor upside it generally hoses enemy tribal strategies.
Compelling Deterrance is a lot more flexible than Vapor Snag, hitting all types of permanents, and isn't actually card disadvantage like Snag is. It's a test card however and discard might just take its place.
Modern:
B 8Rack
RX Goblins
BG Elves (Attempting)
UBW Mill
G Stompy
UB Tezzerator
Legacy:
W Stax
A 3/3 for three that comes back everytime a creature from your yard comes back (either by casting, or undying, or Relentless Dead). This might cause demand for Bloodghast.
It comes back trapped, but I'm a huge fan of anything that comes back without extra investment.
I don't know what slot yet, and there's still 100 cards to go.
I think I'd agree that colussus is better, unless you are trying to rack up devotion. Then again, I'm trying to get grimgrin to work, so I'm not the guy people want to listen to.
If Grimgrin didn't require gravecrawler (now serviceable with Relentless Dead) to untap reliably he'd be worth it. He's competing with a cheaper 5/5 that tramples and kills things it's own way. (Obliterater) You can't compete with cheaper, more reliable spells, and Colossus isn't reliable.
I dunno about that. It's a recursive, evasive zombie that has fairly easy re-cast preconditions. Plus, getting one back let's you rebuy all of your Gravecrawlers and Amalgams, but maybe I've just got too much dredge on my mind.
The circumstances though to make this line of play requires you play it for four. Then it needs to die. Then you have to draw either two dead cards or a pair of amalgams/gravecrawlers, and also not have been killed by turn six. That's low probability on top of wasted resources.
I don't know, I may try a list once SOI comes out.
You don't need to hard cast it but it requires a third color to get it into the graveyard along with maybe hedron crab. Green gives you life from the loam, lotleth troll, and grisly salvage. red gives you faithless looting.
I'm thinking of playing something like this
4x diregraf ghoul
3x Lotleth Troll
4x Relentless Dead
4x Prized Amalgam
3x Stitchwing Skaab
4x flex/payoff creatures/lords?
2x Darkblast
3x abrupt decay/other removal/discard
4x thought scour
1x raven's crime
4x polluted delta
4x misty rainforest
3x cavern of souls
2x swamp
1x island
1x forest
2x overgrown tomb
2x watery grave
1x ghost quarter
I like the look of the list with Life From the Loam. What about Epiphany at the Drownyard? Splitting the pile 0/X could be hilarious. Also, gifts ungiven could be an interesting 2 of in the deck.
Ever After: Only your graveyard, costs six. Nope.
From Under the Floorboards: Awesome flavor, but too expensive, even with madness. At X=1 you could have had Geralf's messenger instead of one token 2/2. At X=2, you could have had an untapped Obliterator.
Rottenheart Ghoul: Save two mana and just play some rats. Or Black Cat, which is a zombie too.
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
I have added your decks to the OP.
I got this deck from a friend. I believe it's modern-legal, but as far as I read, i don't know if it is a good match. Would you give me some advice, please? (sorry if the way I build the post with the cards isn't the most correct one trying my best!)
Lands:
4x Isolated Chapel
15x Swamp
3x Plains
Creatures:
3x Death Baron
2x Cemetery Reaper
2x Undead Warchief
3x Stromgald Crusader
2x Festering Goblin
4x Gravecrawler
4x Tidehollow Sculler
3x Lord of the Undead
Others:
2x Whip of Erebos
4x Tragic Slip
2x Endless Ranks of the Dead
2x Righteousness
2x Vile Rebirth
3x Geth's Verdict
Sideboard:
1x Cemetery Reaper
1x Undead Warchief
1x Stromgald Crusader
1x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
3x Lifebane Zombie
1x Vile Rebirth
Welcome to the Zombie party! My first thoughts here are to cut the white cards: Do you really need to be running a second color for just Tidehallow Sculler and Righteousness?
Black can give you better ways to attack the hand in Inquisition of Kozelik, Thoughtseize, and Duress. In place of Righteousness you could just run any other kill spell. Victim of the Night, Doom Blade, and Go for the Throat come to mind.
Next we have your goal. Based on what you have here it seems you want to put out a critical mass of lords (creatures that give all your other creatures +1/+1) which is fine, but you'll need stronger plays to make sure these lords can get the job done. Damnation is such a card to make sure you stay alive long enough to cast all your favorite zombies.
There's a few other questionable choices you're making here, such as Endless Ranks of Dead so maybe you should tell us how competitive you are? If you're just playing with friends a slower deck like this is fine, but if you plan to play competitively you'll need something faster. If you look at the first post of this thread you'll see there's a series of decklists including a lord-heavy build similar to what you're going for. See what those lists are doing differently and ask yourself why your choices are better. (if they're not, change them )
Hey friend! Thanks for your answer, I really appreciate this. Well, I must be honest I don't really understand the whole mechanics of the game. The only thing I know how to do (because of Krenko) is to produce tokens and attack. But I'd love to understand a different mechanic with zombies!
I've been looking for a competitive deck to play. I know this one might not win a continental competition, but I'd love to have chances on FNM, for example. If these changes are good ones, I'll give it a try! About the white part of the deck, I honestly have no idea why! I just got the deck the way it is, and it looked pretty interesting. Still didn't test yet. Also I've been looking to additions I could make to this collor mix (like, maybe Athreos, God of Passage?), but should I stop and look for other color bases?
Thanks again!!
But enough about lands, you didn't come here for real estate advice. Creatures have this nasty habit: They die. A lot. Zombies are good in this regard because having died once already, they're awfully resilient when it comes to dying a second time. You can see this already in Gravecrawler, and in Geralf's Messenger. This gets even better with the new mythic card comming out in two weeks, Relentless Dead. Basically, zombies don't care about dying because it's always short term. It means you can play a little fast and loose with your combat decisions because zombies can be very forgiving. Even the lords, Lord of the Undead and Cemetery Reaper know what to do with your buried zombies. Since creatures are great at dying, you might as well get full value out of each death with a card like Blood Artist, or if you prefer a 1/1 that loses half the appeal Zulaport Cutthroat. These guys just laugh as you attack with a suicidal Gravecrawler or Messenger which either are unblocked, and deal damage, or are blocked and die...which deals damage (Life loss, technically).
Lastly, there's the discard spells I mentioned in the last post, because who wants your oponent playing good stuff? And another 2/X for B so you don't have to rely on Gravecrawler for your opening move, Diregraf Ghoul. Some players prefer Festering Goblin.
About the lands and other stuff, for now I'm trying to make this deck cheap. Any alternatives for Æther Vial, Inquisition of Kozilek?
Playable New Cards:
Borderline (used VERY liberally):