Yeah I can do it when I get home tonight. Don't really feel like fighting with trying to do it on my phone.
Lol, np. I don't blame you.
GP Charlotte Tournament Report
I spent the week before trying to decide on the pile I wanted to take to Charlotte. I felt like playing UWr control without Nahiri wasn't the right meta call after watching Nahiri decks and ramp decks run rampant the past few weeks. After a day or two of think tanking I made the decision to start testing RUg Kiki Combo as a meta deck for the format.
Game 1 I don't remember much. The last thing I have annotated on my life pad is a grove activation, which I assume was a worldbreaker followed up by ugin judging by me having me at 14 and him at 11.
Game 2 I got to combo out with pestermite + kiki on turn 5 or 6 after keeping him off tron early by ancient grudging his map turn 2 on the play.
Game 3 I kept 3 creatures, a serum visions, and 3 lands including a ghost quarter. I found nothing off my turn 1 serum visions meaning I had to play the ghost quarter to disrupt tron from being established. I had to ghost quarter a tron land to keep him off tron, so we sat and played draw go with him playing maps occasionally. I ended up staying on 2 lands for too long to be able to close out the game. According to my life pad I had stuck a clique, but continued to draw non interaction and he finally was able to take me off lands and then played Ugin to close out the game.
2-1
Round 4
BG Graveyard Aggro
Game 1 wasn't very interesting. I had a removal and creature heavy hand. He played out an assortment of gravecrawlers and bloodghast to beat face. I had a reasonably sized goyf and continued to have twiddle creatures to tap down his. He eventually scooped to death by a thousand pestermite swings.
Game 2 was slightly more interesting. He dropped a turn 2 loleth troll which he helped to grow by discarding after I tapped out for a turn 1 serum visions. I dropped a goyf to block, which I chumped with. I them proceeded to run out another bigger goyf. I top decked a batterskull to stabilize me at 6 and start climbing back up in life. He swung in killing my germ token. I untapped at 10 life and equipped the batterskull to my goyf making it an 8/9. We played draw go until he found a vengevine and he was able to swing profitably again. I snap + serum visions to find an anger of the gods and proceeded to sweep the board. He abrupt decayed my goyf on my end step, and I tapped down his loleth troll with an exarch. He scooped after I started swinging into him in the air, while having batterskull on an exarch to block.
3-1
Round 5
Naya Titan Shift with Nahiri (assuming he has scapeshifts, I never saw any)
Game 1 he plays a nahiri after I tap out at some point if I remember correctly. I made the decision to see let him ult Nahiri turn 5 to see if he'd walk into an exarch with the ult, which he did. After that I stuck a snapcaster at some point and was able to gradually grind him down to about 10. He killed my snap with a valakut trigger; I proceeded to untap and drop goyf. He played a primeval titan fetching valakut and mountain (hitting me for 3). I untap with 6 lands drop a kiki-jiki and copy my tarmogoyf swinging into his primeval titan. He blocks my goyf and I dismember his titan. putting him to 5. He played a farseek on his turn killing my goyf. I untap snap + bolt and swing for lethal with kiki.
Game 2 He has a Nahiri which I kept control of it's loyalty so he couldn't ult for a while. I was able to stick a click and then a goyf (his board being a nahiri at 6 loyalty). He went to minus his nahiri to kill my vendilion clique, and I flashed in an exarch to untap it. He then played a land to kill my exarch. I untapped swung 8 to put him at 2, and then snap + bolt for the kill.
4-1
Round 6
Junk Cavern Elves (Aggro build with lead the stampede)
Game 1 wasn't super interesting. He has a good elves draw. I had to dismember an elf at some point. I punted this game super hard by fetching away a scryed Kiki on accident.
Game 2 I had removal for days and rode a 4/5 goyf that I played turn 2 to victory.
Game 3 was a bit more interesting. I had a very reactive hand, but he had a natural Burrenton Forge-Tender in his hand. He accidentally swung with his Forge-Tender, which let me windmill slam an exarch on the table to kill it. I bolted his Lord on end step and then untapped. I passed turn back without doing anything else. He untapped and laid out Ezuri and Heritage druid leaving open a forest (him having 3 elves on the field). Knowing what was in his hand (from a Lead the Stampede) I was most likely dead if I didn't remove his Ezuri or Combo off. I played kiki he companied and whiffed on finding his Phyrexian Revoker.
5-1
Round 7
Joshua Cho on RG Bushwacker Zoo.
There's not much to say about this round. I got run over by strong draws on his part and him having all the right answers at the right time. I will say that this match up normally doesn't feel unfavorable.
5-2
Round 8
Burn
Game 1 was just a normal burn hand, and I didn't draw the answers I needed off of serum visions.
Game 2 He kept a non creature hand and drew into creatures. He got me down to 7 before I beat him down with a goyf and snap.
Game 3 I had a reasonable keep. I misplayed in negating a Lava Spike at some point tapping out so he could cast Boros Charm on me. I fetched to 2 to tapped out for batterskull after going into the think tank for a minute or two. I did the math and he had ~25 draws he could have hit for me to start climbing back up in life thanks to batterskull.
5-3
Round 9
UWr Control
Game 1 is some serum visions here and there. I got ahead on lands, and proceeded to pick a fight on his end step with a snapcaster mage.The stack resembled something like snap (me) > spell snare target snap (him) > remand target snap (me) > spell snare target snap (him) > Remand target spell snare (me). The top remand resolved and then he recast the spell snare putting him at 2 mana. I allowed the stack to resolve. I then flashed in another snap which he countered with mana leak. I untapped with 8 mana and then played Exarch and Kiki-Jiki to combo off game 1 while he was tapped out.
Game 2 was the tradition temur box game. I was able to get ahead on lands and beat him down after answering his early game V Clique.
6-3
Day 2:
Round 10
Affinity
Game 1 I made the mistake of keeping a combo hand without interaction blind. My opponent had a quick hand with finding double overseer, and I found no interaction in my 3-4 draw steps. I ended up dying turn 4 with the kiki-jiki still in my hand.
Game 2 I missed land drop #4 and was forced to anger the board turn 4 to clean up the field. He untapped and dropped spellskite into overseer with an inkmoth nexus in play as well. I had to bolt snap bolt to answer the skite, and then just didn't find another way to answer the board.
6-4
Round 11
UWr Nahiri
Sadly my deck didn't really cooperate this round. I tried playing the beatdown due to being behind on lands, and he had answers for my goyfs. I ended up having to tap out for an exarch to tap down his emrakul off nahiri ult both games which was met by remand both games.
6-5
----------------------------------------------
Overall I have to say I was happy with my deck choice for the most part. The mana base is bad, and there were times I felt I needed a 3rd filter to hit cryptic and kiki both on curve.
I definitely felt like I got unlucky in some of my game losses, and feel like this is probably a viable build at times.
I would have sleeved up probably 70 of the 75 again if I'd have been going into the same event tomorrow.
Also random shout outs to Hunter my GR Tron opponent whom I got to hang out with at the players meeting day 2, and a congrats to Cam my round 9 opponent on the recent engagement. Cool people all around for all my opponents.
Still not sure how to solve the BGx matchup, but T3 Moon seems good. I do think you want to keep in the combo, tho (at least with Moon in the deck). What are everyone's sb plans against Jund and Abzan? Jund is much worse for us than Abzan, I would think. That whole Kommand+Bolt thing.
My enthousiasm over making Twin live again is fading away to be honest. And that's the reason. This deck just can't have a good MU vs BGx. It was hard for Twin already, but now is worse. And with Jund at 10% of the meta I don't see why I should be willing to put time and effort in this deck.
I just 2-0d Jund on XMage. Goyf+Moon is how you beat them. I even won after he resolved Choke. I highly suggest you try the RUG list I posted above -- it's very good.
G1 I Mooned into eventually comboing when i knew the time was right. G2 I just played super conservatively, and he just folded to 3 Goyfs (I kept in the combo tho). Even after he Choked me (baiting the Negate w/ a Lili), I have plenty of non-chokable lands -- Sulfur Falls, Cascade Bluffs, Stomping Ground, Loothouse, basic Mountain, and basic Forest. haha
I basically figured out that you have to live in fear of the stuff that kills you -- don't tap out on T2 for Goyf if they can untap into a Lili. Play as conservatively as possible, and think "What if he plays Goyf/Lili/Confidant after this?" and take the line that is least vulnerable.
Edit: As for my main inspiration behind the deck, it has nothing to do with reviving Twin -- it's to find a good tempo deck that punishes people for tapping out. I loved Twin's style, and I wanted to replicate it.
Yea but you don't always have that Moon at the right time or 3 Goyfs. It's not that you can't beat them, but everything needs to be going the right way for you in order for that to happen. I encourage you to do more testing vs skilled Jund pilots. A friend of mine plays Jund and I tested the MU extensively. The MU is terrible. My win percentage was around 35%, and I played A LOT of matches. Didn't try the Temur version yet, but I doubt it will magically turn the MU around.
It's not so much that the match up is any more awful than twin. It's the fact that our sideboard has to have haymakers for the jund match up from where our G1 is so bad. It really depends on how you build your sideboard.
Went 4-1 at SNM yesterday! The room was full of aggro decks -- lots of Boros/Naya Burn, some Zoo/Goblins, Elves, Affinity, 2 Bant Eldrazi, me, and a Jeskai Nahiri player. Not the best room for mainboard Blood Moons, but even after siding them out in 4/5 matchups, it still didn't keep me from having a good record. Here's the report:
G1: My opponent flooded out ever so slightly, and my Tarmogoyf stopped his attacks for a while. Once I knew I was in the green zone, I swung in and beat him to death with Goyf and a Pestermite.
G2: This time, he got super flooded. I answered everything that mattered, like Atarka's Command and Eidolon, and eventually Goyf'd him to death. He had 7 lands in play by t7-ish after having fetched once.
1-0, 1-0 overall
There was a lot of R in the room today.
G1: I play a T3 Moon on all of my required basics to cut him off of his W spells, but he had a Grim Lavamancer that I couldn't answer, and that combined with his red spells was enough to do me in.
G2: He stumbled a little bit on his draws, and I had just enough interaction to get there via Goyf beats.
G3: I started the game on the draw with a Cascade bluffs on T1 with Forest and Desolate Lighthouse in hand along with things like Clique, Goyf, Bolt, and Snap. I did topdeck an Island for T2, but at that point I'd taken too much damage from the Goblin Guide he'd had out since T1. I ended up losing to exactsies 2 turns before Kiki-comboing him.
1-2, 1-1 overall
G1: I used Bolt/Remand to stall him out, and T5 combo'd him while he was tapped out.
G2: I Bolt/Snap/Bolt to hold his fort down for a little while, take a few beats from 2 mana dudes and a Heritage Druid, and topdeck a Goyf to stymie his attacks for several turns. I'm able to hold up interaction for multiple turns, and Kiki combo with Dispel backup after he topdecks a few lands.
2-0, 2-1 overall.
This guy was a budget player, but his deck wasn't too bad. It was, however, filled with an endless army of 1/1s, with things like Dragon Fodder, Mogg War Marshall, etc, and when I kept the bigger threats at bay with Bolts, he just didn't apply enough pressure to me.
G1: He leads on a pair of Mogg Fanatics, which is annoying because it would stop my Kiki combo, but I scry a Deceiver Exarch and Kiki (lol) to the top with a Serum. I play towards that end, answer some stuff, Exarch to surprise block a Fanatic. Then, I untap, and Kiki combo him to death.
G2: I start off well, but start to get beat down by 1/1s. I finally hit an Anger of the Gods, but he responds with double Mogg War Marshall. I topdeck lands for multiple turns in a row, and get nowhere despite a few timely topdecks afterwards.
Sideboard Changes:
In: 2x Keranos, God of Storms
Out: 2x Dispel
G3: I made the above changes because the only instants I saw both games were Bolts, and I didn't think it was that important to board in Dispel for. I also wanted an alternate wincon, and a way to spam removal for 1/1's without losing cards (since Pestermites never stuck for beat-down). I went into game one feeling pretty good, and it started like G1. We shot some fireworks back and forth, and when the dust settled, he was sitting on 4 cards in hand that he said did "nothing" (seemed odd to me, because he had 3 lands in play) while I had a few Pestermites, a Deceiver, and a Keranos on the field with a Kiki in hand. I could tell that he was holding up removal for Kiki (I knew he had 2x Sudden Shock in his sb, but I went for kiki anyways. I was able to make a Pestermite while getting Kiki Shocked, but I had enough for lethal at that point. If he had Shocked my Pestermite to fizzle Kiki's ability, he was still dead because Keranos would have been online.
2-1, 3-1 overall.
G1: He fumbles around a bit with Talisman of Dominance while fetching basics (he knew I had Moons mainboard from last week) and playing carefully around counters. He played some other artifacts that didn't do anything, and he folded over to the Kiki combo after casting a Skite and something else, leaving only 1 black up, against my on board Mite. I untap, Kiki combo'd and he scooped. After the match, he told me he should've redirected the Pestermite Copy's tap/untap ability to Skite to stop the combo, but he didn't see the play in game.
In: 2x Ancient Grudge, 2x Negate, 2x Keranos, 2x V Clique
I wasn't quite sure how to board, so I'll explain my choice from above -- I boarded out a Serum because I didn't want to flood on them -- they're fine in the matchup, but I need to hold up mana early on for Thopter Foundry. Then, I cut Deceivers because I knew I wasn't going all in on the combo since he has answers for it (nothing burn based, so Pestermite is the better of the 2). I also cut 2 Kikis, leaving one in for a potential to combo; and one Moon, so I wouldn't draw multiples.
G2: He kept a land/talisman heavy hand, and I kept the following 7 on the draw --> 1x Misty Rainforest, 1x Serum, 1x AV, 1x Blood Moon, 1x Keranos, 1x Pestermite, 1x Kiki. I figured the hand was fine if he didn't have disruption, and that AV might dig me out if he had it. Perhaps it was a bad keep, but we'll see. He T1 Thoughtseizes me off of a Swamp, takes Serum (ugh), and I topdeck Island. I fetch up a Breeding Pool and suspend AV, and he plays fetch go. Flash forward a few turns/Remands later, I resolve AV and still haven't found a 3rd land, but at this point I have all of the interaction a U player could ask for, and a Goyf+Snap on the field. I draw my way into a fetch, grab Steam Vents, and Grudge Bridge (he redirects to Skite), flashback Grudge the same Bridge, and start the beatdowns. Through permission and Tarmogoyf, I get him down to 0 and take the match.
2-0, 4-1 overall.
About the deck in hindsight, the only change I would make to the list would be to move the Moons to the sb for this specific meta, but I still want them main going forwards. The numbers of everything worked perfectly -- as I expected, having some number of Exarchs ended up being important in more than one case. Goyf was AMAZING today tho -- much better than I expected. I think this might be the optimal list (for my playstyle, at least). And best of all, I proved to myself and all the naysayers at my LGS that UR Kiki isn't a one-trick pony, racking all of its wins off of mainboard Moons and a combo that noone expected. The deck is very real. =D
Wow guys, finally a thread on UR kiki!!! congrats to everyone on your tournament results, and thanks for the reports!
yeah the deck is awesome, I've been testing it online for a few months now and I can proudly say that the deck is definitely a viable choice. I used to play with Ancestral vision in it but last week I pulled them out because despite the fact that the card is awesome and feels so good when it resolves, i didn't like that it forced the games to assume a "swingy" nature, back and forth between losing and winning every time an AV was suspended. also, in a meta full of aggro decks it didn't seem like the best choice, so I replaced them with 4x anticipate!! I've never been a fan of serum vision to begin with, and after an intensive testing session among different cantrips, anticipate demonstrated to be the best of the bunch, here are a few reasons why it's better than serum:
instant speed allows you to always stay open on mana
when digging for answers, you get the card instantly instead of having to wait until your next draw step.
better synergy with snapcasters due to the instant speed
great synergy with counterspells, because by keeping mana open you're always representing them
you almost never want to cast a serum vision on turn 1 anyway (less information, more damage from lands)
Thanks for joining us! I'm not a fan of cutting Serums, but I've already touched on that a little in the previous pages.
Perhaps you were playing too many AV's? You only want a few against control and midrange decks (against which topdecking them a little later isn't that big of an issue). Personally, I've found that AV is never bad, but sometimes you have no interaction and die before it resolves. In fact, I'm not sure I've lost a game that AV resolved in. I could see maybe sideboarding a couple, but I think they're just too necessary to beating BGx and U control decks (okay, Control isn't a bad matchup; but AV makes it feel like a bye).
I don't mind Anticipate -- but I'm not sure I'd play more than 2. I could see Think Twice too, but I think that our spells tend to be situational enought to warrant filtering over card advantage.
I do have some comments about your list tho:
4 Kikis is too many. They cost 5 and are super demanding on the mana if you don't have Blood Moon. I'd play 3.
Pestermite is marginally better than it used to be, so I'd play 3 Mites and 3 Deceivers.
A 2-1 split on Roast-Slash seems like a lot of extra removal mainboard. I assume the Slash is there because it's easier to flash back with Snap, but that's very corner-case. I'd trim one for a Serum Vision or AV (something that's cheap and cantrips). Maybe Peek? I played Peek in UR Twin a lot, and I love the card.
Nice call on the P&K's in the board! I wanted to try that, how've they been for you?
I noticed that you play a Chandra. How do you feel about a Keranos in that spot?
Why Molten Rain? I'm not sure I like any real LD in the list at all, but even if I did, wouldn't Spreading Seas be better?
there's been an interesting situation in G3 of the second match, please I'd like to hear your comments on that one!
MATCH 1 - vs. Grishoalbrand
G1. I had a dispel, a snare and some flash creatures so I was able to prevent him from comboing while beating him down. easy g1
G2. Mulligan to 6 due to no interaction in the early turns. I get a fine 6 but it's still lacking some good hate... but then my first 2 draws are snare and relic respectively so... yeah, gg easy!
2-0
1-0 overall
MATCH 2 - vs. Burn
G1. Mulligan to 6 because the first 7 sucked bananas. he goes first, opens with a guide that gets bolted right away but then the rest of his hand is 1 more land and all burn, and he'll keep drawing just more burn. despite that, I was able to counter some of them and start beating down with a pestermite, but unfortunately he kills me with 2 more bolts while I was digging for counters with the loothouse. after the end I scry 1 and there was a kiki right on top, which would have granted me the win for sure... so sad!
G2. Mulligan to 6 into a good hand with all free-damage lands (which is critical vs burn), counters and snapcasters, he can't do much against that.
G3. this game had the most interesting case study of the night, the situation: it's my turn, I'm at 5 life stuck at 3 lands with no board and vendilion clique alongside a bolt, pestermite and other irrelevant cards in hand. he's at 11 life, has 2 cards in hand and just 3 lands in play, 2 of which tapped and a fetch untapped. the obvious play was to play vendilion, but the question is: when? my plan was to pass, wait for him to crack the fetch eot and vendilion in response, but instead he just untapped and went to the draw step... at that point, I just decided to wait for his play and then clique EOT. but ad I did, he fetched and searing blaze + bolted me. I believe I've made a mistake, I should have just played the clique on my main phase and go from there... what are your thoughts on this one?
1-2
1-1 overall
MATCH 3 - vs. infect
G1. I draw a burn heavy hand and controlled the board in the early turns, then I comboed for the win turn 5.
G2. Mulligan to 6. the game drags on for a while until he plays a wild defiance, I have no answers to that and lose very easily
G3. I bolted his hierarch turn 1 and played a blood moon turn 3. he had 2 basic forests though, but his inkmoths were blanked and I was able to control the game from there.
the match wasn't particularly interesting, he had mana problems both games but there were some interesting plays in it nonetheless. when I played the keranos, he topdecked celestial purge right away and that felt really bad, making me wonder if we should find a replacement for the God, given that most white decks are packing purge in side right now to face nahiris...
2-0
3-1 overall and 2nd place!!
the deck has demonstrated to have potential. the combo is nice, it won me a few games, i'm still not sold on keranos, electrolyze and other choices atm but if I had to go to a PT today, I'd probably play the same 75 again. please let me know about the burn/vendilion situation and I hope you enjoyed reading this! Peace!
Some intersting stuff here -- about the Clique play, I think that Clique'ing in rsp to his fetch during his turn was correct if you do anything there (that or doing nothing, and not giving him a window to resolve spells). Still, you just get blown out by Blaze, there's nothing you can do about it. As for the cards you were mentioning, I don't personally like Electrolyze very much -- I'd never play more than 1 if I decided to play any at all. Keranos is great -- if they have the Purge, they have it, but that's why there's 2 Keranos. You could always play Goblin Dark-Dwellers, Jace, Architect of Thought, or Chandra, Flamecaller. I could see Flamecaller being really good, since she does a ton of damage every turn and wipes away tokens.
I like your mainboard Anticipates and Dispels. No Serums is still very odd to me tho. I'm not even sure you need mainboard Roasts -- I sideboard my 2. I'd say -2x Roast (to the sideboard), -1x Kiki, -1x Electrolyze --> +4x Serum
Lent my RUG Kiki list to a friend tonight, moving the Blood Moons to the sideboard. He went 3-2, narrowly losing the last round on a misplay.
Edit: I only moved the Moons to the board because my friend usually plays UR Delver with mainboard Blood Moons, so the people at my shop would automatically play around it.
My opponents were on Esper control, Abzan, Kiki chord and Tron. the deck performed greatly, AV was unbelievable!!! I've made a couple of changes from my previous list and i'm very happy so far: I replaced a roast with a harvest pyre and one remand with an izzet charm! the combo won me each and every game 1 that I've played. Twin is back guys
Was the second match against Abzan Company or Abzan Midrange? Curious how that match played out in particular. Also, what type of Esper Control did you face? I like to pay attention to what Esper decks people are actually playing -- was it Draw-Go (playing Think Twices)? Or did it play stuff like Tasigur and mainboard discard spells?
How has playing only 2 Remands been for you? I typically shy away from having a lot of variety in the list, so I tend to stick to 4-ofs. Your list really makes me OCD, despite that it may not be a bad thing.
how have you found the white splash? I havnt tried splashing because blood moon has been winning so many games for me.
Same. I still prefer staying UR or RUG (only for Goyfs and Ancient Grudge) with mb Moons.
Never really was a fan of UWR Kiki Control anyways, not really looking to play Wall of Omens and Helixes. If I were to splash W, it'd basically be solely for Resto and sb cards. Not even Path, because I still want my Blood Moons.
I'm just looking for a creature that isn't Boltable and attacks well (mostly to deal with tokens). If it works with the combo, that's even better.
this is the list ive been running for a bit. any thoughts on it?
This list needs a LOT more Pestermites. Snappy and Exarch aren't really gonna get there by themselves, and though Clique helps, it'll get insta-Bolted and then you have no clock. Personally, I think the deck wants Blood Moons main (at least 2), no Electrolyze (way too slow), and at least one Izzet Charm due to its versatility.
Would you like me to post my most current UR list? I actually prefer RUG, but ain't nobody got money for Goyfs (At least not me. My awesome LGS hosts non-sanctioned, proxy-allowed tourneys; but I'm moving in 2 weeks).
this is the list ive been running for a bit. any thoughts on it?
This list needs a LOT more Pestermites. Snappy and Exarch aren't really gonna get there by themselves, and though Clique helps, it'll get insta-Bolted and then you have no clock. Personally, I think the deck wants Blood Moons main (at least 2), no Electrolyze (way too slow), and at least one Izzet Charm due to its versatility.
Would you like me to post my most current UR list? I actually prefer RUG, but ain't nobody got money for Goyfs (At least not me. My awesome LGS hosts non-sanctioned, proxy-allowed tourneys; but I'm moving in 2 weeks).
i agree with you on electrolyze. but i disagree about pestermite. having that many x/1's is just a liability to lingering souls, forked bolt and electrolyze.
I will try izzet charm. I have the cards for green white and black splashes. I have chosen not to splash for more then grudge because of blood moon.
I was looking for a place to talk to people about my Jeskai Kiki deck and I finally found a place! I have only been to 1 modern event with it, and went 2-1. But I am starting to love the deck. I am picking up more cards in case I want to just run U/R.
Thq white addition may slow tempo for sure with colonnades and more shocks, but the power level I think is worth it. I plan on going through every page of the thread tomorrow when I get free time, and I can't wait to contribute as long as you folks don't mind a Jeskai colored Kiki player i honestly dislike nahiri, because I hate being mainstream and jumping on bandwagons anyways lol
I'm still here just haven't been playing magic much. I got burned out from testing for Charlotte and took a break for the past month or so after not enjoying going to WNM. I'm still trying to replace the hole in my heart from where twin is banned.
@Rutheric I definitely want to see your URw list.
I played a RUg deck last night but it wasn't kiki combo. My brother put the list together for me because I had to work late and didn't have time to do so prior to the event.
Yeah I can do it when I get home tonight. Don't really feel like fighting with trying to do it on my phone.
Lol, np. I don't blame you.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
GP Charlotte Tournament Report
I spent the week before trying to decide on the pile I wanted to take to Charlotte. I felt like playing UWr control without Nahiri wasn't the right meta call after watching Nahiri decks and ramp decks run rampant the past few weeks. After a day or two of think tanking I made the decision to start testing RUg Kiki Combo as a meta deck for the format.
My pile:
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Steam Vents
1x Breeding Pool
1x Stomping Ground
1x Hinterland Harbor
1x Sulfur Falls
1x Raging Ravine
2x Cascade Bluffs
3x Island
1x Mountain
1x Forest
1x Ghost Quarter
Spells
4x Serum Visions
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Spell Snare
1x Dispel
3x Remand
1x Izzet Charm
1x Roast
1x Dismember
1x Electrolyze
2x Cryptic Command
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Snapcaster Mage
3x Deceiver Exarch
2x Pestermite
1x Vendilion Clique
3x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1x Natural State
2x Ancient Grudge
1x Scavenging Ooze
2x Negate
1x Pulse of Murasa
2x Anger of the Gods
1x Huntmaster of the Fells
2x Crumble to Dust
1x Thragtusk
1x Batterskull
Rounds 1 + 2
I had byes
2-0
Round 3
RG Tron
Game 1 I don't remember much. The last thing I have annotated on my life pad is a grove activation, which I assume was a worldbreaker followed up by ugin judging by me having me at 14 and him at 11.
Game 2 I got to combo out with pestermite + kiki on turn 5 or 6 after keeping him off tron early by ancient grudging his map turn 2 on the play.
Game 3 I kept 3 creatures, a serum visions, and 3 lands including a ghost quarter. I found nothing off my turn 1 serum visions meaning I had to play the ghost quarter to disrupt tron from being established. I had to ghost quarter a tron land to keep him off tron, so we sat and played draw go with him playing maps occasionally. I ended up staying on 2 lands for too long to be able to close out the game. According to my life pad I had stuck a clique, but continued to draw non interaction and he finally was able to take me off lands and then played Ugin to close out the game.
2-1
Round 4
BG Graveyard Aggro
Game 1 wasn't very interesting. I had a removal and creature heavy hand. He played out an assortment of gravecrawlers and bloodghast to beat face. I had a reasonably sized goyf and continued to have twiddle creatures to tap down his. He eventually scooped to death by a thousand pestermite swings.
Game 2 was slightly more interesting. He dropped a turn 2 loleth troll which he helped to grow by discarding after I tapped out for a turn 1 serum visions. I dropped a goyf to block, which I chumped with. I them proceeded to run out another bigger goyf. I top decked a batterskull to stabilize me at 6 and start climbing back up in life. He swung in killing my germ token. I untapped at 10 life and equipped the batterskull to my goyf making it an 8/9. We played draw go until he found a vengevine and he was able to swing profitably again. I snap + serum visions to find an anger of the gods and proceeded to sweep the board. He abrupt decayed my goyf on my end step, and I tapped down his loleth troll with an exarch. He scooped after I started swinging into him in the air, while having batterskull on an exarch to block.
3-1
Round 5
Naya Titan Shift with Nahiri (assuming he has scapeshifts, I never saw any)
Game 1 he plays a nahiri after I tap out at some point if I remember correctly. I made the decision to see let him ult Nahiri turn 5 to see if he'd walk into an exarch with the ult, which he did. After that I stuck a snapcaster at some point and was able to gradually grind him down to about 10. He killed my snap with a valakut trigger; I proceeded to untap and drop goyf. He played a primeval titan fetching valakut and mountain (hitting me for 3). I untap with 6 lands drop a kiki-jiki and copy my tarmogoyf swinging into his primeval titan. He blocks my goyf and I dismember his titan. putting him to 5. He played a farseek on his turn killing my goyf. I untap snap + bolt and swing for lethal with kiki.
Game 2 He has a Nahiri which I kept control of it's loyalty so he couldn't ult for a while. I was able to stick a click and then a goyf (his board being a nahiri at 6 loyalty). He went to minus his nahiri to kill my vendilion clique, and I flashed in an exarch to untap it. He then played a land to kill my exarch. I untapped swung 8 to put him at 2, and then snap + bolt for the kill.
4-1
Round 6
Junk Cavern Elves (Aggro build with lead the stampede)
Game 1 wasn't super interesting. He has a good elves draw. I had to dismember an elf at some point. I punted this game super hard by fetching away a scryed Kiki on accident.
Game 2 I had removal for days and rode a 4/5 goyf that I played turn 2 to victory.
Game 3 was a bit more interesting. I had a very reactive hand, but he had a natural Burrenton Forge-Tender in his hand. He accidentally swung with his Forge-Tender, which let me windmill slam an exarch on the table to kill it. I bolted his Lord on end step and then untapped. I passed turn back without doing anything else. He untapped and laid out Ezuri and Heritage druid leaving open a forest (him having 3 elves on the field). Knowing what was in his hand (from a Lead the Stampede) I was most likely dead if I didn't remove his Ezuri or Combo off. I played kiki he companied and whiffed on finding his Phyrexian Revoker.
5-1
Round 7
Joshua Cho on RG Bushwacker Zoo.
There's not much to say about this round. I got run over by strong draws on his part and him having all the right answers at the right time. I will say that this match up normally doesn't feel unfavorable.
5-2
Round 8
Burn
Game 1 was just a normal burn hand, and I didn't draw the answers I needed off of serum visions.
Game 2 He kept a non creature hand and drew into creatures. He got me down to 7 before I beat him down with a goyf and snap.
Game 3 I had a reasonable keep. I misplayed in negating a Lava Spike at some point tapping out so he could cast Boros Charm on me. I fetched to 2 to tapped out for batterskull after going into the think tank for a minute or two. I did the math and he had ~25 draws he could have hit for me to start climbing back up in life thanks to batterskull.
5-3
Round 9
UWr Control
Game 1 is some serum visions here and there. I got ahead on lands, and proceeded to pick a fight on his end step with a snapcaster mage.The stack resembled something like snap (me) > spell snare target snap (him) > remand target snap (me) > spell snare target snap (him) > Remand target spell snare (me). The top remand resolved and then he recast the spell snare putting him at 2 mana. I allowed the stack to resolve. I then flashed in another snap which he countered with mana leak. I untapped with 8 mana and then played Exarch and Kiki-Jiki to combo off game 1 while he was tapped out.
Game 2 was the tradition temur box game. I was able to get ahead on lands and beat him down after answering his early game V Clique.
6-3
Day 2:
Round 10
Affinity
Game 1 I made the mistake of keeping a combo hand without interaction blind. My opponent had a quick hand with finding double overseer, and I found no interaction in my 3-4 draw steps. I ended up dying turn 4 with the kiki-jiki still in my hand.
Game 2 I missed land drop #4 and was forced to anger the board turn 4 to clean up the field. He untapped and dropped spellskite into overseer with an inkmoth nexus in play as well. I had to bolt snap bolt to answer the skite, and then just didn't find another way to answer the board.
6-4
Round 11
UWr Nahiri
Sadly my deck didn't really cooperate this round. I tried playing the beatdown due to being behind on lands, and he had answers for my goyfs. I ended up having to tap out for an exarch to tap down his emrakul off nahiri ult both games which was met by remand both games.
6-5
----------------------------------------------
Overall I have to say I was happy with my deck choice for the most part. The mana base is bad, and there were times I felt I needed a 3rd filter to hit cryptic and kiki both on curve.
I definitely felt like I got unlucky in some of my game losses, and feel like this is probably a viable build at times.
I would have sleeved up probably 70 of the 75 again if I'd have been going into the same event tomorrow.
Also random shout outs to Hunter my GR Tron opponent whom I got to hang out with at the players meeting day 2, and a congrats to Cam my round 9 opponent on the recent engagement. Cool people all around for all my opponents.
It's not so much that the match up is any more awful than twin. It's the fact that our sideboard has to have haymakers for the jund match up from where our G1 is so bad. It really depends on how you build your sideboard.
3x Sulfur Falls
1x Cascade Bluffs
1x Desolate Lighthouse
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Steam Vents
1x Stomping Ground
1x Breeding Pool
4x Island
1x Forest
1x Mountain
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x Tarmogoyf
2x Deceiver Exarch
4x Pestermite
3x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Counters/Removal (10)
4x Lightning Bolt
1x Spell Snare
1x Izzet Charm
4x Remand
Card Advantage (10)
4x Serum Visions
3x Ancestral Vision
3x Blood Moon
1x Burst Lighting
2x Dispel
2x Ancient Grudge
2x Negate
2x Roast
2x Anger of the Gods
2x Vendilion Clique
2x Keranos, God of Storms
G1: My opponent flooded out ever so slightly, and my Tarmogoyf stopped his attacks for a while. Once I knew I was in the green zone, I swung in and beat him to death with Goyf and a Pestermite.
G2: This time, he got super flooded. I answered everything that mattered, like Atarka's Command and Eidolon, and eventually Goyf'd him to death. He had 7 lands in play by t7-ish after having fetched once.
1-0, 1-0 overall
There was a lot of R in the room today.
G1: I play a T3 Moon on all of my required basics to cut him off of his W spells, but he had a Grim Lavamancer that I couldn't answer, and that combined with his red spells was enough to do me in.
G2: He stumbled a little bit on his draws, and I had just enough interaction to get there via Goyf beats.
G3: I started the game on the draw with a Cascade bluffs on T1 with Forest and Desolate Lighthouse in hand along with things like Clique, Goyf, Bolt, and Snap. I did topdeck an Island for T2, but at that point I'd taken too much damage from the Goblin Guide he'd had out since T1. I ended up losing to exactsies 2 turns before Kiki-comboing him.
1-2, 1-1 overall
G1: I used Bolt/Remand to stall him out, and T5 combo'd him while he was tapped out.
G2: I Bolt/Snap/Bolt to hold his fort down for a little while, take a few beats from 2 mana dudes and a Heritage Druid, and topdeck a Goyf to stymie his attacks for several turns. I'm able to hold up interaction for multiple turns, and Kiki combo with Dispel backup after he topdecks a few lands.
2-0, 2-1 overall.
This guy was a budget player, but his deck wasn't too bad. It was, however, filled with an endless army of 1/1s, with things like Dragon Fodder, Mogg War Marshall, etc, and when I kept the bigger threats at bay with Bolts, he just didn't apply enough pressure to me.
G1: He leads on a pair of Mogg Fanatics, which is annoying because it would stop my Kiki combo, but I scry a Deceiver Exarch and Kiki (lol) to the top with a Serum. I play towards that end, answer some stuff, Exarch to surprise block a Fanatic. Then, I untap, and Kiki combo him to death.
G2: I start off well, but start to get beat down by 1/1s. I finally hit an Anger of the Gods, but he responds with double Mogg War Marshall. I topdeck lands for multiple turns in a row, and get nowhere despite a few timely topdecks afterwards.
Sideboard Changes:
G3: I made the above changes because the only instants I saw both games were Bolts, and I didn't think it was that important to board in Dispel for. I also wanted an alternate wincon, and a way to spam removal for 1/1's without losing cards (since Pestermites never stuck for beat-down). I went into game one feeling pretty good, and it started like G1. We shot some fireworks back and forth, and when the dust settled, he was sitting on 4 cards in hand that he said did "nothing" (seemed odd to me, because he had 3 lands in play) while I had a few Pestermites, a Deceiver, and a Keranos on the field with a Kiki in hand. I could tell that he was holding up removal for Kiki (I knew he had 2x Sudden Shock in his sb, but I went for kiki anyways. I was able to make a Pestermite while getting Kiki Shocked, but I had enough for lethal at that point. If he had Shocked my Pestermite to fizzle Kiki's ability, he was still dead because Keranos would have been online.
2-1, 3-1 overall.
G1: He fumbles around a bit with Talisman of Dominance while fetching basics (he knew I had Moons mainboard from last week) and playing carefully around counters. He played some other artifacts that didn't do anything, and he folded over to the Kiki combo after casting a Skite and something else, leaving only 1 black up, against my on board Mite. I untap, Kiki combo'd and he scooped. After the match, he told me he should've redirected the Pestermite Copy's tap/untap ability to Skite to stop the combo, but he didn't see the play in game.
I wasn't quite sure how to board, so I'll explain my choice from above -- I boarded out a Serum because I didn't want to flood on them -- they're fine in the matchup, but I need to hold up mana early on for Thopter Foundry. Then, I cut Deceivers because I knew I wasn't going all in on the combo since he has answers for it (nothing burn based, so Pestermite is the better of the 2). I also cut 2 Kikis, leaving one in for a potential to combo; and one Moon, so I wouldn't draw multiples.
G2: He kept a land/talisman heavy hand, and I kept the following 7 on the draw --> 1x Misty Rainforest, 1x Serum, 1x AV, 1x Blood Moon, 1x Keranos, 1x Pestermite, 1x Kiki. I figured the hand was fine if he didn't have disruption, and that AV might dig me out if he had it. Perhaps it was a bad keep, but we'll see. He T1 Thoughtseizes me off of a Swamp, takes Serum (ugh), and I topdeck Island. I fetch up a Breeding Pool and suspend AV, and he plays fetch go. Flash forward a few turns/Remands later, I resolve AV and still haven't found a 3rd land, but at this point I have all of the interaction a U player could ask for, and a Goyf+Snap on the field. I draw my way into a fetch, grab Steam Vents, and Grudge Bridge (he redirects to Skite), flashback Grudge the same Bridge, and start the beatdowns. Through permission and Tarmogoyf, I get him down to 0 and take the match.
2-0, 4-1 overall.
About the deck in hindsight, the only change I would make to the list would be to move the Moons to the sb for this specific meta, but I still want them main going forwards. The numbers of everything worked perfectly -- as I expected, having some number of Exarchs ended up being important in more than one case. Goyf was AMAZING today tho -- much better than I expected. I think this might be the optimal list (for my playstyle, at least). And best of all, I proved to myself and all the naysayers at my LGS that UR Kiki isn't a one-trick pony, racking all of its wins off of mainboard Moons and a combo that noone expected. The deck is very real. =D
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
Thanks for joining us! I'm not a fan of cutting Serums, but I've already touched on that a little in the previous pages.
Perhaps you were playing too many AV's? You only want a few against control and midrange decks (against which topdecking them a little later isn't that big of an issue). Personally, I've found that AV is never bad, but sometimes you have no interaction and die before it resolves. In fact, I'm not sure I've lost a game that AV resolved in. I could see maybe sideboarding a couple, but I think they're just too necessary to beating BGx and U control decks (okay, Control isn't a bad matchup; but AV makes it feel like a bye).
I don't mind Anticipate -- but I'm not sure I'd play more than 2. I could see Think Twice too, but I think that our spells tend to be situational enought to warrant filtering over card advantage.
I do have some comments about your list tho:
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
Some intersting stuff here -- about the Clique play, I think that Clique'ing in rsp to his fetch during his turn was correct if you do anything there (that or doing nothing, and not giving him a window to resolve spells). Still, you just get blown out by Blaze, there's nothing you can do about it. As for the cards you were mentioning, I don't personally like Electrolyze very much -- I'd never play more than 1 if I decided to play any at all. Keranos is great -- if they have the Purge, they have it, but that's why there's 2 Keranos. You could always play Goblin Dark-Dwellers, Jace, Architect of Thought, or Chandra, Flamecaller. I could see Flamecaller being really good, since she does a ton of damage every turn and wipes away tokens.
I like your mainboard Anticipates and Dispels. No Serums is still very odd to me tho. I'm not even sure you need mainboard Roasts -- I sideboard my 2. I'd say -2x Roast (to the sideboard), -1x Kiki, -1x Electrolyze --> +4x Serum
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
Edit: I only moved the Moons to the board because my friend usually plays UR Delver with mainboard Blood Moons, so the people at my shop would automatically play around it.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
And about the PW options, what about Ral Zarek or Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker ?
Was the second match against Abzan Company or Abzan Midrange? Curious how that match played out in particular. Also, what type of Esper Control did you face? I like to pay attention to what Esper decks people are actually playing -- was it Draw-Go (playing Think Twices)? Or did it play stuff like Tasigur and mainboard discard spells?
How has playing only 2 Remands been for you? I typically shy away from having a lot of variety in the list, so I tend to stick to 4-ofs. Your list really makes me OCD, despite that it may not be a bad thing.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
Yes, I love kiki-control deck. Any help is welcome!!
This is my list:
1 Anger of the Gods
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Lightning Helix
1 Logic Knot
2 Mana Leak
4 Path to Exile
2 cryptic command
4 Ancestral Vision
2 Spell Snare
(Creatures 14)
4 Restoration Angel
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
3 Wall of omens
1 Vendilion Clique
3 Steam Vents
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
1 Cascade Bluffs
4 Celestial Colonnade
1 Desolate Lighthouse
1 Plains
1 Mountain
3 Island
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Rest in Peace
1 Spell Pierce
2 Stony Silence
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Negate
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Crumble to Dust
1 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Lightning Helix
Same. I still prefer staying UR or RUG (only for Goyfs and Ancient Grudge) with mb Moons.
Never really was a fan of UWR Kiki Control anyways, not really looking to play Wall of Omens and Helixes. If I were to splash W, it'd basically be solely for Resto and sb cards. Not even Path, because I still want my Blood Moons.
I'm just looking for a creature that isn't Boltable and attacks well (mostly to deal with tokens). If it works with the combo, that's even better.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
3 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
4 Deceiver Exarch
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
(spells 24)
3 Cryptic Command
2 Mana Leak
4 Remand
2 Spell Snare
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Serum Visions
1 Dispel
1 Electrolyze
3 Ancestral Vision
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Mountain
3 Sulfur Falls
2 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Desolate Lighthouse
7 Island
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
3 Blood Moon
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Roast
2 Negate
2 Dispel
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Surgical Extraction
this is the list ive been running for a bit. any thoughts on it?
This list needs a LOT more Pestermites. Snappy and Exarch aren't really gonna get there by themselves, and though Clique helps, it'll get insta-Bolted and then you have no clock. Personally, I think the deck wants Blood Moons main (at least 2), no Electrolyze (way too slow), and at least one Izzet Charm due to its versatility.
Would you like me to post my most current UR list? I actually prefer RUG, but ain't nobody got money for Goyfs (At least not me. My awesome LGS hosts non-sanctioned, proxy-allowed tourneys; but I'm moving in 2 weeks).
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
i agree with you on electrolyze. but i disagree about pestermite. having that many x/1's is just a liability to lingering souls, forked bolt and electrolyze.
I will try izzet charm. I have the cards for green white and black splashes. I have chosen not to splash for more then grudge because of blood moon.
I would like to see your list.
3x Sulfur Falls
1x Desolate Lighthouse
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Steam Vents
1x Stomping Ground
6x Island
1x Mountain
Creatures (15)
4x Snapcaster Mage
2x Deceiver Exarch
4x Pestermite
2x Vendilion Clique
3x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1x Dispel
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Remand
1x Izzet Charm
2x Cryptic Command
Sorceries (7)
4x Serum Visions
3x Ancestral Vision
Enchantments (3)
3x Blood Moon
1x Engineered Explosives
2x Dispel
2x Ancient Grudge
2x Negate
2x Roast
2x Sudden Shock
2x Anger of the Gods
1x Goblin Dark-Dwellers
1x Keranos, God of Storms
2x Sulfur Falls
1x Desolate Lighthouse
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Steam Vents
1x Breeding Pool
1x Stomping Ground
5x Island
1x Forest
1x Mountain
Creatures (18)
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x Tarmogoyf
1x Deceiver Exarch
4x Pestermite
2x Vendilion Clique
3x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1x Dispel
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Remand
1x Izzet Charm
Sorceries (7)
4x Serum Visions
3x Ancestral Vision
Enchantments (2)
2x Blood Moon
1x Engineered Explosives
2x Dispel
2x Ancient Grudge
2x Negate
2x Roast
2x Sudden Shock
2x Anger of the Gods
1x Goblin Dark-Dwellers
1x Keranos, God of Storms
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
From the meta of my store (and country) I really want the paths.
You are right with Wall of omens, but Also the white let me play Celestial colonnade and Restoration Angel, and I won a lot of games without the combo.
But the most strong thing a kiki-combo with white is the sideboard Rest in Peace, Stony Silence give me a lot of games
Thq white addition may slow tempo for sure with colonnades and more shocks, but the power level I think is worth it. I plan on going through every page of the thread tomorrow when I get free time, and I can't wait to contribute as long as you folks don't mind a Jeskai colored Kiki player i honestly dislike nahiri, because I hate being mainstream and jumping on bandwagons anyways lol
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
You can see my list in a previous post, please give me your opinion
@Rutheric I definitely want to see your URw list.
I played a RUg deck last night but it wasn't kiki combo. My brother put the list together for me because I had to work late and didn't have time to do so prior to the event.
How has your build of the deck felt without Spell Snare?