I went down to 3 o-stones and replaced one with ratchet bomb. I felt like the sweeper portion of the deck needed to have its curve lowered a bit. Also gives me more game against the quicker non-eldrazi decks in the format.
Went up to 4 chalice in the board. In the matchups where you really need it, you want to max out your chances of drawing one as early as possible.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Went to the biggest GPT ever hosted in Europe yesterday. 2nd biggest in history. 300 players, 9 rounds.
the metagame was extremely diverse, with many players at the penultimate round of the tourney saying they'd faced 8 different decks in 8 rounds, and it had been one of the most enjoyable they'd been to. despite this - some players (who notably didn't play against any eldrazi decks) kept blathering on about eldrazi winter and how they were just everywhere and had taken over. thankfully, this simply wasn't the case. Bogles was the most represented deck.
was playing colourless Eldrazi (Tronlands variant) and started the tournament 4-0. here's my list:
it was great fun, but I got hit with some particularly annoying variance, resulting in the round 5, 6 and 7 losses. this was:
1) twice in the tournament, I lost a game from drawing three Eye of Ugin in a row. these were both clutch, very close game-3s and lost me the matches I was playing, where literally any other card in the deck would have allowed me to win by playing a threat. ouch.
2) despite running 3 Oblivion stone in the maindeck (and for good reason), I never saw one during the whole tournament. ummm... ouch?
3) Despite running the full 4 Chalice of the Void in the sideboard, and boarding it in against Burn and Affinity, and both matches going to three games, I never saw one. I mulliganed to try to see one but it just never materialised. (and then I drew 3 eye of ugin in a row, cementing the game-3 loss).
the game has inherent randomness, obviously. It felt a bit like the stars aligned for my opponents in a couple of the rounds though, for sure. the old "got the win if I can draw any card except for Eye - topdecks three eyes in a row" thing was very frustrating. without those two mishaps, I had the highest breakers in my bracket and would have made top8. them's the breaks!
anyway... despite this variance-fart, the deck felt very good. even without drawing any of the sideboard cards I needed in any of the games where it mattered, I managed to take the match to three games and present a reasonable front. Thought-Knot Seer was a great midrange card which sealed away a couple of games by grabbing the right card at the right time.
the deck has an insanely positive matchup against UW Eldrazi - shame UW won't be around for very long.
it also has (in testing) a great burn matchup, and a passably-positive affinity matchup. if you see even one of the maindeck or sideboard cards you need for those matchups, instantly it turns in your favour.
changes I'd make:
maindeck
-1 dismember
-1 ratchet bomb
+2 spatial contortion
contortion was good. the life loss from dismember was real. most of the time the 5 toughness thing didn't matter, but i'd still want three dismembers.
sideboard
-1 ulamog
-1 ghost quarter
-3 Relic of Progenitus
+2 grafdigger's cage
+3 Faerie Macabre
the second ulamog out of the board was actually never relevant, and I can see maybe swapping it for something more tricksy like Void Winnower as a hate-card. winnower would have won me a few games potentially yesterday.
cage would have been great against the CoCo and Chord decks which were out in abundance. in the end, ghost quarter is nice but isn't as high impact as I would have hoped.
In every single instance where relic could have been relevant yesterday, an instant-speed Faerie ability would have been better. it's free, it's quick, it catches your opponent out so they can't methodically play around it (such as by disrupting the persist trigger on a Kitchen finks in Melira combo, or stopping a Living end player going off, or kicking grishoalbrand to the curb, or wrecking a snapcaster trigger). it's miles better and i won't leave home without these guys in the future. consider it, fellow edrazi players. you can even sometimes hard-cast them off an urborg.
I expect this colourless-incorporates-tron version to live on after the bans in some form or other - if Eye of Ugin manages to survive and Temple gets banned. If Eye gets the can, it's game over most likely - Eye gives the deck the reach it needs to close out the grindier matchups and longer games. quick-mimic-starts are rare and fun but aren't the norm. really you care about your turn 4s and turn 5s where you can attempt to play something significant. that's totally in-line with what modern wants, and Wizards should take note.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
is nobody else testing to see how the deck might perform without one or more of the lands?
i've been putting some time into a no-temple version. over the next day or two i'll be looking at a no-eye version
my gut feeling is that Eye is generally the card you need to make the deck work. otherwise it's kind of loose.
although, temple lets you cast turn 1 chalice of the void (with Simian Spirit Guide), which is definitely relevant in a post-eldrazi metagame. Eye doesn't give you the mana to do this.
i really like the idea of a Modern deck that can run Chalice and capitalise from it. that's a big draw for me, as the card hasn't seen any real modern play up until now and I like the style.
but..... do you want to lose the useful late-game tutoring ability of Eye? that's what lets you have some game against decks like control, Jund and so forth
with simian spirit guide and chalice, the deck could very realistically still have some legs in a format mostly dominated by quick kills from Affinity, Burn and the like.
with the other eldrazi builds pretty much dead after an Eye ban, I feel like this could be the one to take forward, with a view to sticking around the Tier 2 sort of level.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
As usual, after a key pieces of a deck is banned, the mods and I move the deck to deck creation or lock the thread if it cant exist anymore. We do this because when a deck loses a core piece, the deck is arguably different than what it was before, thus in many cases deserves its own thread or to be reevaluated to see if it can retain its old success. This is still the case here. The ban may have shifted the deck to older stratagies used, or maybe new ones entirely. But we have left the thread open for people to brew.
The OP must, however, be changed to reflect the new outlook of the deck and not give old information.
Why would you play Wastes? You've got no interactions for it, and Wasteland isn't a thing. Why not play a random utility land that taps for C instead? There are a lot to choose from.
Why would you play Wastes? You've got no interactions for it, and Wasteland isn't a thing. Why not play a random utility land that taps for C instead? There are a lot to choose from.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Why would you play Wastes? You've got no interactions for it, and Wasteland isn't a thing. Why not play a random utility land that taps for C instead? There are a lot to choose from.
I'm actually wondering if its worth something like Amulet of Vigor to help fuel T2 Though-Knots or T3 six mana plays, or Desperate Ritual out T3 Smashers (even without Mimic spam).
so i'm putting together a list - it's shifted back to the T1 Chalice plan with Simian Spirit Guide, due to a wild guess that the Eldrazi decks will mostly disappear, so chalice on 1 is a thing again. as is Ratchet Bomb on turn 1 (won so many games off a T1 ratchet bomb it's unreal - GG Merfolk)
i'm also maindecking 3x Thorn of Amethyst - the card slows certain strategies to the extent that you can ramp out your midrange fatties ahead of their curve. i know this isn't legacy, but the card has some serious merits.
as for creature base, i'm torn. mimic is obviously a lot worse, but good if you draw temple in your opener, because it lets you drop a chalice T1 with a spirit guide, followed up by mimic, and you are free to drop a vesuva without losing tempo. This seems like it might be fairly rare though, so I'm considering swapping them straight out for Phyrexian Revokers which are more disruptive and again might buy some turns for the larger guys to get out. Testing will hopefully show whether mimic is still the go-to early drop. I have a sneaking suspicion I may have to go back to playing mimic before too long. For now though, revoker is having a trial run.
let's see how things shape out. realistically i think a Tron-Drazi build will become the thing to play, as even if you miss on drawing temple, you have a good shot at getting the mana you need. unfortunately, this shuts you off from the Chalice of the Void plan completely, because you need Expedition Map. bummer!
here's my tentative list as it stands. (warning, there are gaps!)
Went up to 4 chalice in the board. In the matchups where you really need it, you want to max out your chances of drawing one as early as possible.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
the metagame was extremely diverse, with many players at the penultimate round of the tourney saying they'd faced 8 different decks in 8 rounds, and it had been one of the most enjoyable they'd been to. despite this - some players (who notably didn't play against any eldrazi decks) kept blathering on about eldrazi winter and how they were just everywhere and had taken over. thankfully, this simply wasn't the case. Bogles was the most represented deck.
was playing colourless Eldrazi (Tronlands variant) and started the tournament 4-0. here's my list:
4x endless one
4x thought-knot seer
4x reality smasher
3x oblivion sower
1x Ulamog, The Ceaseless Hunger
3x oblivion stone
1x ratchet bomb
4x dismember
4x expedition map
4x eldrazi temple
2x urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
4x urza's tower
4x urza's power plant
4x urza's mine
1x ghost quarter
1x wastes
4x chalice of the void
3x relic of progenitus (honestly feeling like Faerie Macabre would be 100% better)
2x gut shot
2x ratchet bomb
1x oblivion sower
1x ulamog, the ceaseless hunger
1x spatial contortion (with hindsight, a couple of the maindeck dismembers should have been contortions to save on life)
1x ghost quarter
results:
round 1 - Win - Junk
Round 2 - Win - UW Eldrazi
Round 3 - Win - UW Eldrazi
Round 4 - Win - Merfolk
Round 5 - Loss - Melira combo
Round 6 - Loss - Affinity
Round 7 - Loss - Burn
Round 8 - Win - Scapeshift
Round 9 - Loss - Kiki-Chord
overall 5-4
it was great fun, but I got hit with some particularly annoying variance, resulting in the round 5, 6 and 7 losses. this was:
1) twice in the tournament, I lost a game from drawing three Eye of Ugin in a row. these were both clutch, very close game-3s and lost me the matches I was playing, where literally any other card in the deck would have allowed me to win by playing a threat. ouch.
2) despite running 3 Oblivion stone in the maindeck (and for good reason), I never saw one during the whole tournament. ummm... ouch?
3) Despite running the full 4 Chalice of the Void in the sideboard, and boarding it in against Burn and Affinity, and both matches going to three games, I never saw one. I mulliganed to try to see one but it just never materialised. (and then I drew 3 eye of ugin in a row, cementing the game-3 loss).
the game has inherent randomness, obviously. It felt a bit like the stars aligned for my opponents in a couple of the rounds though, for sure. the old "got the win if I can draw any card except for Eye - topdecks three eyes in a row" thing was very frustrating. without those two mishaps, I had the highest breakers in my bracket and would have made top8. them's the breaks!
anyway... despite this variance-fart, the deck felt very good. even without drawing any of the sideboard cards I needed in any of the games where it mattered, I managed to take the match to three games and present a reasonable front. Thought-Knot Seer was a great midrange card which sealed away a couple of games by grabbing the right card at the right time.
the deck has an insanely positive matchup against UW Eldrazi - shame UW won't be around for very long.
it also has (in testing) a great burn matchup, and a passably-positive affinity matchup. if you see even one of the maindeck or sideboard cards you need for those matchups, instantly it turns in your favour.
changes I'd make:
maindeck
-1 dismember
-1 ratchet bomb
+2 spatial contortion
contortion was good. the life loss from dismember was real. most of the time the 5 toughness thing didn't matter, but i'd still want three dismembers.
sideboard
-1 ulamog
-1 ghost quarter
-3 Relic of Progenitus
+2 grafdigger's cage
+3 Faerie Macabre
the second ulamog out of the board was actually never relevant, and I can see maybe swapping it for something more tricksy like Void Winnower as a hate-card. winnower would have won me a few games potentially yesterday.
cage would have been great against the CoCo and Chord decks which were out in abundance. in the end, ghost quarter is nice but isn't as high impact as I would have hoped.
In every single instance where relic could have been relevant yesterday, an instant-speed Faerie ability would have been better. it's free, it's quick, it catches your opponent out so they can't methodically play around it (such as by disrupting the persist trigger on a Kitchen finks in Melira combo, or stopping a Living end player going off, or kicking grishoalbrand to the curb, or wrecking a snapcaster trigger). it's miles better and i won't leave home without these guys in the future. consider it, fellow edrazi players. you can even sometimes hard-cast them off an urborg.
I expect this colourless-incorporates-tron version to live on after the bans in some form or other - if Eye of Ugin manages to survive and Temple gets banned. If Eye gets the can, it's game over most likely - Eye gives the deck the reach it needs to close out the grindier matchups and longer games. quick-mimic-starts are rare and fun but aren't the norm. really you care about your turn 4s and turn 5s where you can attempt to play something significant. that's totally in-line with what modern wants, and Wizards should take note.
But ban
But a potential ban... you sound very sarcastic.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
is nobody else testing to see how the deck might perform without one or more of the lands?
i've been putting some time into a no-temple version. over the next day or two i'll be looking at a no-eye version
my gut feeling is that Eye is generally the card you need to make the deck work. otherwise it's kind of loose.
although, temple lets you cast turn 1 chalice of the void (with Simian Spirit Guide), which is definitely relevant in a post-eldrazi metagame. Eye doesn't give you the mana to do this.
i really like the idea of a Modern deck that can run Chalice and capitalise from it. that's a big draw for me, as the card hasn't seen any real modern play up until now and I like the style.
but..... do you want to lose the useful late-game tutoring ability of Eye? that's what lets you have some game against decks like control, Jund and so forth
1 Gemstone Caverns
3 Mutavault
3 Wastes
2 Sea Gate Wreckage
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Reality Smasher
2 Spellskite
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Dismember
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Spatial Contortion
1 Batterskull
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Warping Wail
4 Relic of Progenitus
Notes: didnt follow the 'urza lands route', I prefer a more versatile land base. Sea Gate Wreckage drew many cards.
Other interesting lands: Radiant Fountain and Tomb of the Spirit Dragon
fortunately for the deck, I think the colourless version is perhaps the only build that could feasibly still work after an Eye ban.
reason? Chalice of the Void.
with simian spirit guide and chalice, the deck could very realistically still have some legs in a format mostly dominated by quick kills from Affinity, Burn and the like.
with the other eldrazi builds pretty much dead after an Eye ban, I feel like this could be the one to take forward, with a view to sticking around the Tier 2 sort of level.
4 Endless One
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 utility eldrazi
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Chromatic Star
4 Ancient Stirrings
23 lands
4 Pain lands of Choice with green
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Vesuva
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Sea-gate wrekage
2 Wastes
1 Forest
1 basic of the other colour
1 i don't know which utility land we should use
i don't know which combination with green we want.
WG for displacer
UG has ruination guide
now i'm more towards RG for obligator and seems solid with ssg too. vile aggregate also is good
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U Taking Turns combo
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Yeah i know, but if you test it it Works more than you would expect
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U Taking Turns combo
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
The OP must, however, be changed to reflect the new outlook of the deck and not give old information.
Thanks everyone,
Lantern
I have them in side but usually obligator and if you go Black bearer of silence are enough to deal with creatures during first turns
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U Taking Turns combo
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
Low-power cube enthusiast!
My 1570 card cube (no longer updated)
My 415 Peasant+ Artifact and Enchantment Cube
Ever-Expanding "Just throw it in" cube.
This is not Standard.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
As AK mentioned, Path to Exile is everywhere, Ghost Quarter, Blood Moon etc.
I'm actually wondering if its worth something like Amulet of Vigor to help fuel T2 Though-Knots or T3 six mana plays, or Desperate Ritual out T3 Smashers (even without Mimic spam).
i'm also maindecking 3x Thorn of Amethyst - the card slows certain strategies to the extent that you can ramp out your midrange fatties ahead of their curve. i know this isn't legacy, but the card has some serious merits.
also maindecking 4x Vesuva and 1x Gemstone Caverns. might go up to 3 caverns.
as for creature base, i'm torn. mimic is obviously a lot worse, but good if you draw temple in your opener, because it lets you drop a chalice T1 with a spirit guide, followed up by mimic, and you are free to drop a vesuva without losing tempo. This seems like it might be fairly rare though, so I'm considering swapping them straight out for Phyrexian Revokers which are more disruptive and again might buy some turns for the larger guys to get out. Testing will hopefully show whether mimic is still the go-to early drop. I have a sneaking suspicion I may have to go back to playing mimic before too long. For now though, revoker is having a trial run.
let's see how things shape out. realistically i think a Tron-Drazi build will become the thing to play, as even if you miss on drawing temple, you have a good shot at getting the mana you need. unfortunately, this shuts you off from the Chalice of the Void plan completely, because you need Expedition Map. bummer!
here's my tentative list as it stands. (warning, there are gaps!)
4x Endless One
4x Matter Reshaper
4x Thought-Knot Seer
4x Reality Smasher
1x Endbringer
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Thorn of Amethyst
2x Ratchet Bomb
4x Eldrazi Temple
4x Vesuva
1x Gemstone Caverns
4x Ghost Quarter
4x Mutavault
4x Blinkmoth Nexus
4x not-sure-yet
1x Ratchet Bomb
3x Gut Shot
3x Faerie Macabre
2x Grafdigger's Cage
6x ???